THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM, PC

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THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM, PC
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 1 of 13
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Roy A. Katriel (SBN 265463)
THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM, P.C.
4225 Executive Square, Suite 600
La Jolla, California 92037
Telephone: (858) 242-5642
Facsimile: (858) 430-3719
E-mail: [email protected]
Michael D. Braun (SBN 167416)
BRAUN LAW GROUP, P.C.
1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1100
Los Angeles, California 90067
Telephone: (310) 836-6000
Facsimile: (310) 836-6010
E-mail: [email protected]
Counsel for Plaintiff Paul Butler and the Putative Class
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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PAUL B. BUTLER, On Behalf Of
Himself And All Others Similarly
Situated,
Plaintiff,
vs.
PORSCHE CARS NORTH AMERICA,
INC.,
Defendant.
CASE NO.
CLASS ACTION
COMPLAINT
JURY TRIAL DEMANDED
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc
Case No.
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 2 of 13
NATURE OF THE ACTION
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Plaintiff Paul B. Butler (“Plaintiff” or “Butler”), a resident of California and
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owner of a 2007 Porsche 911 vehicle, brings this action on behalf of himself and all
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other similarly situated owners and lessees within California of 2005-2008 Porsche 911
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vehicles (“the Class Vehicles”).1 As detailed, herein, the Class Vehicles are equipped
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with a defective alternator cable that, due to its defective nature, malfunctions and
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thereby prevents the alternator from properly charging the battery. As a result of the
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defective alternator cable, the vehicle battery is left insufficiently charged, potentially
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rendering the vehicle inoperable as there is insufficient electric charge to power the car.
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Vehicles driven at the time the charge dissipates can be rendered disabled in the middle
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of a road or highway. If the failure occurs in the evening, or during rain, the insufficient
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battery charge may also render the vehicle’s headlights and other electrical equipment
inoperable even before the vehicle is disabled. Either situation poses a real and
significant safety risk.
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Defendant Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (“Defendant” or “Porsche”)
has known about this defect but has failed to make any disclosure of it and has failed to
take any corrective action. Plaintiff, whose vehicle suffered the fate of a depleted
battery due to a defective alternator cable, therefore, brings this action to seek redress for
Porsche’s violations of the California Consumer Legal Remedies Act (“CLRA”) and
Unfair Competition Law (“UCL”). This Class Action Complaint seeks only equitable,
injunctive, and declaratory relief. Following the filing of this Class Action Complaint,
Plaintiff, through his counsel, will serve Porsche with a CLRA demand letter pursuant to
California Civil Code, § 1782. If, within the 30-day statutory demand notice period
following service of Plaintiff’s CLRA demand letter, Porsche does not provide the full
and complete relief demanded in the letter, then Plaintiff intends to amend this pleading
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911 models are also referred to by Porsche as the 997 model.
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
2
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 3 of 13
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to include, inter alia, a claim for money damages under the CLRA as is permitted under
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California Civil Code, § 1782(d).
JURISDICTION AND VENUE
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3.
This Court has subject matter over this action pursuant to the Class Action
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Fairness Act, 28 U.S.C. § 1332 (as amended 2005) because the Class Action Complaint
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pleads a class action involving more than $5 million in controversy, and involves a
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putative plaintiff class of diverse citizenship (California) than Defendant (Georgia).
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America, Inc. because Defendant markets and distributes Porsche automobiles, including
the Class Vehicles, within California and this judicial district.
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Venue is proper in this district because Plaintiff Butler is a resident of this
judicial district, his vehicle malfunctioned and was repaired within this judicial district,
such that the events giving rise to his claims took place within this judicial district.
Venue in this district is therefore proper pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1391.
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This Court has personal jurisdiction over Defendant Porsche Cars North
THE PARTIES AND PLAINTIFF’S EXPERIENCES
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Plaintiff Paul B. Butler is a resident of San Jose, California in Santa Clara
County, and the owner of a 2007 Porsche 911 S C2 Cabriolet. Just a few months ago,
when the vehicle had approximately 78,000 miles, and shortly after Mr. Butler had
replaced the battery with a brand new, fully charged battery, Mr. Butler found that the
key remained stuck in his vehicle and the car would not start. Plaintiff brought his
vehicle in for inspection and repair to Porsche of Stevens Creek, a Porsche factoryauthorized dealership in Santa Clara, California. The dealership mechanic found that
Mr. Butler’s new battery, indeed, was insufficiently charged, registering only 11.2 volts,
so the dealer recharged the battery to a reading of approximately 12.6 volts. Yet, when
the dealership’s mechanic next checked the charging system, he found that the charging
system was “insufficient.” The output voltage at the car’s alternator was measured to
read 13 volts, yet when measured at the battery, the reading only yielded 12.6 volts, a
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
3
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 4 of 13
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voltage drop of 0.4 volts across the wiring harness from alternator to the battery. The
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Porsche dealership’s mechanic then removed and replaced the alternator, and retested the
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system. Again, the charging was found to be insufficient, even with a new alternator,
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with now a 0.8 voltage drop between the “good battery and alternator.” Only when the
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dealership mechanic replaced the wiring harness from the alternator did the car’s
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charging system work properly and charge the battery to a full 14.4 volts, such that all
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the faults could be cleared. Plaintiff was billed and paid $3,180.44 for this repair work.
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A true and correct copy of the Porsche of Stevens Creek repair order is attached hereto
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as Exhibit 1.
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a Delaware corporation having its principal place of business at One Porsche Drive in
Atlanta, Georgia 30354. Established in 1984, Defendant is the exclusive importer of
Porsche vehicles for the United States and is a wholly owned subsidiary of Dr. Ing. h.c.
F. Porsche AG, which is headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany.
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the United States stream of commerce.
INTRADISTRICT ASSIGNMENT
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Pursuant to Civil Local Rules 3-2(e) and 3-5(b), Plaintiff alleges that this
action should be assigned to this Court’s San Jose Division. Plaintiff is a resident of San
Jose, California and his allegedly defective vehicle is and, at all times relevant, was
found there. The vehicle malfunctioned in San Jose, and was repaired at Porsche of
Stevens Creek, a Porsche factory-authorized dealership in Santa Clara, California. Thus,
the events giving rise to Plaintiff’s claims all arose in Santa Clara County.
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As such, Defendant was
the entity responsible for injecting Plaintiff’s Porsche vehicle and the Class Vehicles into
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Defendant Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (“Defendant” or “Porsche”) is
THE PERVASIVE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM
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Plaintiff’s experience with a defective wiring between the alternator and the
battery is hardly anomalous. Instead, it is a pervasive defect documented in Porsche 997
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
4
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 5 of 13
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Class Vehicles across the country. Upon information and belief, the defect in the Class
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Vehicles appears to be attributable to a defect in the selection of material, gauge or other
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characteristic of the wiring or harness between the alternator or battery that results in
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insufficient charging of the battery. So pervasive is the problem, that a host of message
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boards for aggrieved Porsche owners has arisen online. Even a cursory sampling of
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these online complaints evidences how commonplace the problem is.
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Attached as Exhibit 2 hereto are postings at the online message board
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6speedonline.com . The particular message board forum is entitled 05-06
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Alternator/Cable Battery Issues and contains numerous postings by owners of the
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Porsche Class Vehicles who have experienced this same issue. One such posting dated
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August 9, 2013 from user “schicago” in Chicago, Illinois , for example, states:
Alternator Cable
Porsche should cover the cable and replacement. It is a widespread problem,
and it proves that the design and location of the “Y” cable is faulty. It
should not take 6+ hours to replace a Y cable.
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Ex. 2 hereto at Page 8.
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Another user, “Super Adjuster,” posted the following message on July 16,
2013:
I had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charger helped with the cold start but
not the hot start. The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near
the engine and transmission. So, the voltage from the battery cannot get to
the starter motor to start the engine after it is hot. I got stranded at a gas
station for quite a while because I couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumping
didn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.
So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad
alternator/starter cable. It's not the battery as so many are talked into
replacing by misinformed service advisors.
Id., at Page 3.
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Yet another user, “AP 997S,” posted the following message on the forum
on the same day, July 16, 2013:
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
5
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 6 of 13
Precisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a
couple of years ago and the problem was solved. Trickle charging
the battery has little, if any, effect on a faulty (high resistance
wire/connection) starter/alternator cable.
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Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/
the latest version. If you're still under warranty or CPO PCNA should
replace it at no charge.
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Id.
Please . . . . . no more suggestions to charge the battery!
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Porsche has known all along about the existence of the alleged defect.
Indeed, by the time that Plaintiff’s 2007 model year vehicle was first sold, Porsche had
received numerous complaints about the insufficient charging brought about by the
defective wiring and wiring harness between the alternator and battery of the Class
Vehicles. So much so, that Porsche issued a Technical Service Bulleting (“TSB”)
instructing its dealership’s mechanics about the nature of this problem and directing
them to replace the wire. Yet, despite this knowledge of the defect and the TSB it issued
to its dealerships and mechanics, Porsche never made any disclosure to consumers or the
putative class members about the defect plaguing the Class Vehicles.
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Rather than recalling or replacing the defective wire, even when the wiring
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failed, Porsche has washed its hands of any responsibility and forced unsuspecting
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consumers to pay for the replacement and repair. Plaintiff Butler, thus was charged
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$3,180.44 by the Porsche dealership that replaced the defective wiring in his car.
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At the same time, Porsche quietly discontinued using the same wiring in
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future model years of the Porsche 997 vehicles. Upon information and belief, following
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the 2007 model year for the 997 Porsche vehicles, Porsche began using a different
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version of the wiring between the alternator and battery that no longer presents the
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alleged defect. Yet, while it did so for post-2007 model year 997 vehicles, Porsche left
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in place the old defective wiring and took no action with respect to the Class Vehicles.
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Because the insufficient charging of the electrical system brought about by
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
6
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 7 of 13
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the allegedly defective wiring poses a real and serious safety risk and hazard, Porsche
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had a legal duty to disclose to owners of the Class Vehicles the existence of this defect,
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but failed to do so.
CLASS ACTION ALLEGATIONS
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Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 23, Plaintiff brings this action
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as a class action on behalf of all owners within California of the Class Vehicles.
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Specifically excluded from the class are all judicial officers assigned to this case, as well
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as all federal and state employees, and the employees of Defendant or its corporate
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affiliates. Also excluded from the class definition are any individuals who allegedly
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have suffered personal injuries as a result of the alleged defects. Plaintiff reserves the
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right to amend or supplement this class definition as discovery or other case
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development warrant.
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Although the exact number of class members is presently unknown,
Plaintiff is informed and believes and thereon alleges, based on the prevalence of
Porsche 911 vehicles sold and present in California that the class will number in the
thousands of consumers, thereby making joinder impracticable.
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Class certification is also appropriate because there are questions of fact
and/or law that are common to the class members. Among these common questions of
fact and/or law are:
a. Whether Defendant is responsible for injecting allegedly defective
vehicles in to the United States’ stream of commerce;
b. Whether the subject vehicles are defective, and, if so, the nature of the
defect;
c. Defendant’s knowledge and Defendant’s concealment of the defect;
d. Whether Defendant violated (i) California’s UCL, (iii) the California
CLRA;
e. Whether class members are entitled to the relief sought, and if so, the
proper scope of such relief.
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
7
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 8 of 13
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Plaintiff’s claims are typical of the claims of the absent class members in
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that Plaintiff, like all the absent class members, claims that he is a California resident and
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owner of a Class Vehicle that was factory-equipped with defective wiring between the
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car’s alternator and wiring that resulted in improper or insufficient charging of the car’s
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electrical system. Plaintiff is a member of the class he seeks to represent, and the claims
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he advances on his own behalf are identical to the claims asserted on behalf of the class.
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Plaintiff is an adequate class representative in that, as a member of the class
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and as a current owner of an allegedly defective Class Vehicle, Plaintiff’s interests are
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entirely aligned with those of the class. There are no individual conflicts that prevent
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Plaintiff from adequately representing the class. Plaintiff has also retained competent
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counsel experienced in class action litigation.
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Class certification is proper because common questions of fact and law
predominate over questions that may affect only individual members of the class. The
subject vehicles are manufactured on an assembly line setting, subject to a common
design and manufacturing plan, such that evidence of a defect in the wiring between the
alternator and the battery of the car would be one that would predominate over the entire
class membership, as would evidence of Defendant’s course of action, knowledge of the
alleged defect, and any alleged concealment thereof.
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A class action presents a superior form of adjudication over individual
litigation. The costs of litigating this action against a large and sophisticated defendant
like Defendant in comparison to the recovery or relief sought would make individual
litigation impracticable. In addition, forcing individual litigation would risk the result of
inconsistent rulings with respect to Defendant’s duties owed to the various vehicle
owners and lessees.
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A class action is manageable. The proposed class represents an identifiable
community that can be readily identified, and the relief sought is one that can be
overseen by the Court.
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
8
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 9 of 13
COUNT I
(VIOLATION OF THE CALIFORNIA CONSUMER LEGAL REMEDIES
ACT, CAL. CIV. CODE §1750 et. seq.)
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Plaintiff hereby incorporates by reference each of the preceding allegations
as though fully set forth herein.
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Defendant has violated the following provisions of Cal. Civ. Code §1750
et. seq.:
(a)
Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(5): by representing that its goods or services have
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sponsorship, approval, characteristics, ingredients, uses, benefits, or quantities which
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they do not have;
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(b)
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a particular standard, quality, or grade, if they are of another;
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(c)
Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(9): by advertising goods and services with the
intent not to sell them as advertised;
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Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(7): by representing that its goods or services are of
(d)
Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(14): by representing that its subscription service
confers or involves rights, remedies, or obligations which it does not have or involve;
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(e)
Cal. Civ. Code §1770(a)(16): by representing that the subject of a
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transaction has been supplied in accordance with a previous representation when it has
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not.
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Defendant undertook the above and acts or practices in transactions
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intended to result, or which did result, in the sale of its vehicles to customers for
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personal, family, or household use.
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Plaintiff and the members of the putative class are all “consumers” within
the meaning of the CLRA.
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Because the defective wiring, which results in insufficient charging of the
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car’s electrical system, poses a real and serious safety risk (which could lead to the car
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being totally disabled or having any of its electrical components rendered inoperable
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without prior warning), Porsche had a duty to disclose to class members the existence of
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
9
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 10 of 13
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this defect. Porsche failed to disclose this defect to Plaintiff or members of the putative
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class.
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Defendant has therefore violated the Consumers Legal Remedies Act, and
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in this pleading, Plaintiff prays for declaratory, equitable and injunctive relief authorized
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by that Act.
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Pursuant to Cal. Civ. Code §1782, Plaintiff will serve Defendant with a
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written demand letter, setting forth Plaintiff’s claims and demand. If, after 30 days of
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receipt of that demand letter, Defendant fails to provide the full and complete requested
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relief demanded in Plaintiff’s CLRA letter, Plaintiff intends on then amending this Class
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Action Complaint to, at that time, also assert a claim for money damages for the
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violations of the CLRA alleged.
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COUNT II
(VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA’S UNFAIR COMPETITION LAW, CAL. BUS.
AND PROFESSIONS CODE, § 17200 ET. SEQ.).
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Plaintiff hereby incorporates by reference each and every allegation of this
Class Action Complaint with the same force and effect as if it these allegations had been
fully restated herein.
33.
California’s Unfair Competition Law (“UCL”) prohibits and makes
actionable any unlawful, unfair, or deceptive business practice. Defendant’s actions, as
alleged herein, in connection with the marketing and distribution of the Class Vehicles
with a latent defect to their wiring between the alternator and battery amount to, at least,
an unlawful and deceptive business practice and, hence, a violation of the UCL.
34.
For at least the reasons alleged in Count I of this Class Action Complaint,
Porsche’s actions are an unlawful business practice in that Porsche’s violation of the
CLRA is independently an unlawful business practice that is actionable under the UCL.
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Porsche’s marketing, distribution, and sale through its factory-authorized
dealers of the subject vehicles without disclosing the existence of the latent defect
Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
10
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 11 of 13
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plaguing the cars’ wiring also amounts to a deceptive business practice within the
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meaning of the UCL. The conduct was deceptive because it was intended to and did
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mislead and deceive Plaintiff and the class members. Had Porsche disclosed to Plaintiff
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that the Class Vehicle contained a latent defect that would result in his vehicle being
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rendered non-driveable when it did, even when equipped with a brand new battery
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and/or alternator, Plaintiff would not have purchased his vehicle or paid as much as he
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did for it. Defendant knew that if it were to make such a disclosure as to the existence of
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this latent defect, consumers at large would feel and react similarly and forego their
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purchases of these vehicles or pay less for them. As a result, Porsche intentionally
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elected to conceal its knowledge of this existing latent defect.
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As a direct, proximate, and foreseeable result of Porsche’s unlawful and/or
deceptive business practice, Plaintiff and the putative class members have sustained an
ascertainable loss in that: they are left with a significant expense to have their vehicles
repaired to remedy the defective wiring (for example, Plaintiff was charged and paid
$3,180.44 for the repair work necessitated by the defective wiring in his Class Vehicle);
their vehicles have sustained a loss or diminution of value as a result of this undisclosed
defect; and, have or will incur incidental damages attributable to the loss of use of the
vehicle during the time that the vehicles are being repaired.
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Moreover, Plaintiff and the class members conveyed monies and benefits to
Porsche in the form of, inter alia, the purchase price or lease payments for their vehicles,
and the repair and parts costs for their vehicles to repair the damage caused by the defect
at issue.
38.
Plaintiff and the class members are entitled to and do seek an order of
restitution forcing Porsche to restore to them the benefits and monies they conveyed to
Porsche in connection with their purchase of the subject vehicles or any repair or
replacement of the defective wiring of these vehicles.
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
11
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 12 of 13
PRAYER FOR RELIEF
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WHEREFORE, Plaintiff and the class members pray for judgment against
Defendant as follows:
a) That the Court determine that this action may be litigated as a class action, and
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that Plaintiff and his counsel be appointed class representative and class
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counsel, respectively;
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b) That the Court enter judgment against Defendant and in favor of Plaintiff and
the class on all counts;
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c) That Defendant be ordered to bear the cost of notice the absent class members;
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d) That restitution or disgorgement be awarded to each Plaintiff and class member
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according to proof;
e) That the Court enter appropriate declaratory relief, declaring the vehicles
defective and setting forth Defendant’s obligations with respect to the repair of
the defect, and provide any and all appropriate equitable or injunctive relief in
favor of the members of the Class to effectuate this relief;
f) That Plaintiff and the class members be awarded all such other relief as this
Court deems just and proper.
Plaintiff requests a jury trial on all counts so triable.
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
12
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042 Document 1 Filed 04/19/16 Page 13 of 13
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Dated this 19th day of April, 2016.
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Respectfully submitted,
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/s/ Roy A. Katriel_________________
Roy A. Katriel (SBN 265463)
THE KATRIEL LAW FIRM
4225 Executive Square, Suite 600
La Jolla, CA 92037
Telephone: (858) 242-5642
Facsimile: (858) 430-3719
e-mail: [email protected]
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Michael D. Braun (SBN 167416)
BRAUN LAW GROUP, P.C.
1999 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 1100
Los Angeles, California 90067
Telephone: (310) 836-6000
Facsimile: (310) 836-6010
e-mail: [email protected]
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Counsel for Plaintiff Paul Butler and the Putative Class
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Butler v. Porsche Cars North America, Inc,
Case No.
13
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT
Case 5:16-cv-02042
Document 1-1
Filed 04/19/16
Page
1 of 4
EXHIBIT 1 TO COMPLAINT
Butler
v.
Porsche Cars North
America, Ina,
Document 1-1
Case 5:16-cv-02042
4-,,
Filed 04/19/16
Page
2 of 4
PORSCHE of STEVENS CREEK
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4155 Stevens Creek Boulevard
ta Clara, California 95051
247-1655. Fax: (408) 260-6191.
Sall.
Wholesale. (408) 260-6143
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CELL
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PAUL B BUTLER
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AGO. NOW THE KEY IS STUCK AND THE CAR.WILL NOT FEW MONTHS
START
EiAFIA11241=8
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PLEASE INSPECT AND REPORT
inspected- battery voltage low 11.2v. Charged
batteryLand
amnprano. nAceorF C+m+4.
r.
vvilrOWV
12.55v. Checked charging system,
inSufficlent. charging at
tested available
m,
12.6 to battery when loaded_
insuffiCient. 13.0v at
rn.,44.1
riniquA.
:4GF.
-lt'd;op
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Ui LVIAIOUN
alt-output
power.
harness. Removed and replaced
alternator. Retested systemalternator outPut Proper: fOund
voltage'OPP of POWer
harnesS excessive. .BV drop with.good
battery and
alternator,
RemOved -and replaced power harneas from trans tb
alternator.
Also replated seeping breather line
intake. Tested- system functioning frommaPcr seParator to
properly. charging It
14.4V to
PARTS.
battery. All faults cleared. adeptions
of
set-
QTY, -FP-NUMBER
1
997-503-022:-EX
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1
-1
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997-507-01943.
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Document 1-1
Filed 04/19/16
Page
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Case 5:16-cv-02042
pang _Hsi
Page
4 of 4
PORSCHE of STEVENS CREEK
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4155 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Santa Clara, California 95051
1111119
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Case 5:16-cv-02042
Document 1-2
Filed 04/19/16
Page
1 of 13
EXHIBIT 2 TO COMPLAINT
Butler
v.
Porsche Cars North
America, Inc.,
Case 5:16-cv-02042
4/15/2016
05-06
Filed 04/19/16
Document 1-2
Alternator/Battery Cable Issue -6SpeedOnlne -Porsche
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L07-12-2013, 11:25
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AM;
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: CT USA
Posts: 162
sullivas
°41114110%
Rep
8
Power: 13
Registered User
05-06
Alternator/Battery
Before my extended
faulty
I
Tweet
Thread Tools
I
2 II
Ott••
PERFORMANCE YO CA
Ntl a
timOtvifid
Larben
GittlX*4141ify
thditoultiniput
ilurwsi.., rdir-dloptenwhiclerasks.
aldiroleb
SHIPNOW
Cable Issue
SE-I
warranty
runs out
I'd like to make
sure
the alternator cable is not
one
of the
ones.
Was there a TSB on the matter? I have searched but can't flnd
know the number? Thanks.
one.
If there is one, does anyone
issPeenorxine
COM
DREGISTER
NOW
)75.›):
infolink
You mieht also like
tn=7-4 ritiutarc fluor RA
who switch their Auto Insurance.
fil11PM
44ARP
row
kl91179411http:/ www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-at ernator-batteiy-cable-issue.htni
r.
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MN!
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%or
"VW
llome
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NNIF Mr/,UP,
.411
dhA
age
1/6
Case 5:16-cv-02042
4/15/2016
05-06
Document 1-2
Alternator/Battery Cable
Filed 04/19/16
Issue.- 8SpeedOnline
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Porsche Forum and
cIve en a c2vcs
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aNte WI W'CLAil
'46111.1.16211.1.111111"1111.1111111111.1111111
a
Li 5-'-•"-.'1,13
o701 PM
1. IZIPAGOW
n
ii.
Join Date: Oct 2006
ocaon:
ti
Hermosa Beach
Posts: 1, 013
Re• Power:
Ltii
.1.
-4-,
AP 9975
Giohalmotof. muno
61.
atutt
--.7."..
Registered User
i,
„4_,
1.
I dont believe there was
cranks slow when
warm
TSB for that
r
problem. If you simply tell your SA that your car really,
and have them check the resistance.:
a
'1,
..7:',
.i
01111‘
''i
ler
gme
ii.
Refer to the following:..
htto://rennsportkc.com/Dorsche-997-a—t-kansas-ci••
ii.
tv/,.
MOO
it
1314LIN$
htto://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...w-voltage.htmi
2014 98105
2005 997$Launch Car Gone
2001 986$- Gone.
1956 356A
Gone,
‘10WilLAEAFORMANCESHOOLCOht
-STRE E-HS1 'AN DAp
QUOTE.
k.....::_,.......J...,
1.00.9CINCE
u 07-13-2013, 10:28 AM
i
41
gor/a.
Join Date: Dec 2009.
Location: CT USA.
Posts: 162
Rep Power: 13.
i:.
sullivas
pfg.rofirkr4,,V /ffri$1.etIV
0,
0
Registered User
f
i
Thanks AP.
A
tslhahncccel
Enierct
Air, 9•
113
ASS
QUOTE.
P ‘STARMAC FR r;t:
0744-2013,
i
04:00 PM
i
loin Date:
Gpjli
Location:
4
Posts:
i Registered
Apr
I would think
though that
if you
EVOSPEE:12.
4...n.13:13y kogitstel:m.,
415.
i
'kg
Join Date: Oct 2006.
Location: Flerrnosa Beach:
..ar
Posts: 1, 013
Re. Power: 61
AP 997S
Allftio..
11r.
11.1‘11,
Registered
4
QUOTE.
113 ns.ln PIA
-A.0810/Pe
1,
•fr
112
i,
840MBACHER''
amPeieffi4j4
User
i Trickle charger makes this a non issue and prolongs battery life.
had this problem you'd know by now.
Li m
7007.
long island
1, 303.
4V00
nir-3494300
IIMI-11040=01P0111:11E._
I
I g:310, ;74
User
movkm4k4
i
Z.
Quote:
ZJ,;
Originally Posted by Gpjli
Trickle charger makes this a non issue and prolongs battery life. I would think though,
1.
that if you had this problem you'd know by now.
It's not a battery
terminations.
problem
but
a
voltage drop
across
the cable due to wire size and/or.
1956 356A
. :;1t,
C.ARBON ROM
2014 981C8
2005 997S Launch Car
2001 9865- Gone
NET CAR
4.
Gone
3.
Gone
a
....-ir
QUOTE.
Suf.,4031:1A,...sT
L.::. 07-15-2013, 0923 AM
Gpjli
#6;.
!I
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: long island,.
Posts:
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cable-issue.html
1, 303
i
Al
PORSC H t: str„
R
Page2-
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Case 5:16-cv-02042
4/15/2016
05-06
Document 1-2
Altemator/Batteiy Cable
Filed 04/19/16
Issue -6SpeedOnline
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iaPower:
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74:
User.
3-
-c
..1„_•
Quote:.
I
tur 1g Corn
1 SCO, i21,o -2
ttruMw.,
Originally Posted by
It's not a battery
terminations.
AP 997S 0
problem but a voltage drop
across
the cable due to wire size and/or:
3W
11.).. nisrrioionm
Law:, automgc. Acceslmas
1, As long
charge
as
I
(702) 430-6622
keep battery
seems to
be
a
on charger a couple days a week I do not have the
problem. State of
factor in my experience. This is not a solution of
course.
la
l
-;146--
QUOTE
U07-16-2013, 10:47 AM
?=:trit--1Eri
#7 i.
r Y\P:', L'i.,
'GEOUR
*I...e. by per.i.1, f, ..a,, f
a.,
Join Dte: Dec 2009,
Location:
USA
aCT
1
Posts: 162.
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!gistered
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6
EABSPEE
User,:
MT
i
C
PERFORMAI, CEn1..., -LS,
WWW.FABSPEED.COM
1€
I always have the Battery Tender on. What's weird is that after
I drive the car it takes a while:
for the Tender to go green. Could take
hours, you'd think after a long drive a 1 year old battery
would not need more charging.
If I put a voltmeter in the cig outlet while
driving the car at flrst it registers 14+ charge but after
it gets hot the
charging drops to 13.3-13.6. If there's an issue I want to get it resolved before my
EW
ESMOTOR
runs out.
1€,
113
1.
1
auoTE
r C 11
D07-16-2013,
11
7
11141, 11.
._41101..._
1
I
CIR. DVS'
SUSPENSION
rtLEPHANt. Ng..:..,
I
Join Date: Jan 2012
4:
Posts: 273,
Power: 16
wv, wElivh,,, e.:R.,
e, no
ir
Super Adjuster.
con,
K..,
4, egistered User
L
A
stinverpktis
I had a bad cable replaced. The trickle charaer
helped wfth the cold start but not the hot start.
The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near the
engine and transmission. So, the
voltage from the battery cannot get to the starter motor to start the engine after it is hot. I got
stranded at a gas station for quite a while because I couldn't
get voltage to the starter. Jumping
didn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.
E
itti
zotosupERsmitte
4411.11141,t'ii.'
PAM' MIAMINI.MUN
So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad alternator/starter cable. It's
not the battery as so many are talked into
replacing by misinformed service advisors.
1.1111.53.1.1%;4142111
Currently.
2006 Carrera 4S cab.
2008 Cayenne S.
2007 Chevy Avalanche LTZ 4WD.
Elite
Pro-150FD.
0 0110-1.E,:
L J07-16-2013, 11:53
AM
€-N
bug emenwnim
;4'1,
$5L,
i
#9,
DE I
NWHP, K5
Join Date: Oct 2006,
Location: Hermosa Beach.
Posts: 1, 013
61
"V
alimpirer:
amovemf
Registered User
liOTORsPoirr4.
Precisely the problem. I replaced my cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a couple of years ago
and the problem was solved. Trickle charging the battery has little, if any, effect on a
faulty (high
resistance wire/connection) starter/alternator cable.
I
I- Forget the 'Battery
li
Cileic, To Save On
l
Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/ the latest version. If
you're still under warranty or CPO PCNA should replace it at no charge.,.
Please
no more
suggestions
to
charge
A F TFRMA Pa T
AT SUFPFAISIIIV
the battery!
Originally Posted by Super Adjuster al
I had a bad cable replaced. The trickle
charger helped with the cold start but not the hot
start. The cable loses conductivity as it heats because it runs near the
engine and
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cabbAme.htM1
Page3-
3/6
Document 1-2
Case 5:16-cv-02042
4/15/2016
05-06
Alternator/Battery Cable
Issue
Filed 04/19/16
6SpeedOnline
Porsche Forum and
Page
Luxuty
5 of 13
Car Resource
transmission. So, the voltage from the
battery cannot get to the starter motor to start:
the engine after it is hot. I got stranded at a gas station for quite a while because I
couldn't get voltage to the starter. Jumping didn't help. I had to wait for the wire to cool.:
I:
1:
drA
So, sluggish starting after driving is the tale-tale symptom of a bad alternator/starter
g
cable. It's not the
advisors.
11
battery
as so
many
are
talked into
replacing by
misinformed service
111E511111
STUDIO RSR
i;
2014 98105
!I
2005 997S Launch Car Gone
2001 986S Gone:
1956 3564
Gone:
ii
l
a
1
P4C2FA=r.-1E'
QUOTE
I i _107-17-2013, 08:57 PM
1:71....itier
#1.a:
j;
Join Date: Jul 2C08
Location: MA
Bnrnlejo
Posts: 59
k.
.gistered
fialliower:
Ir
i
i.
13
User
Good to know about this, going by the thread title it seems this is not an Issue with 07s and
up?:
Can anybody confirm that?,
10
i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Brunswick
i.j...
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 0
User
seen a
detailed how to
replace
the cable here
on
ll
quoTE.
#12
Date: Dec 2009
Location: CT USA
Posts: 162
I Join
sill livas
Registered
ii
a:
:1
10:35 AM
il
Trrwa-7va-rr
6speed.
jia
U07-18-2013,
EL
#.a. I
JimKan
I've
..6, 1l.,
QUOTE
i I:1 07-18-2013, 08:56 AM
Registered
aafrifiOW
1
ll
I:
Rep Power: 13
User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banilejo
Good to know about this, going by the thread title it
and up? Can anybody confirm that?
I believe
they beefed up the cable for 06,
someone
seems
this is not an issue with 075
correct me if I'm wrong.
QUOTE
1:02xl
#12 I
j‘k*
Join Date: :Ian 2012
Posts: 273
4°'
Adjuster
;Z,
j
j
Rep Power: 16
so
Registered User
Mine is an 06 C4S cab and needed the cable replacement. My dealer charged the aftermarket
warranty company about $1200 for the job. I've heard of quotes as high as $1900. The part is
only a couple hundred, but there's lots of labor. The wire snakes through many tight spots.
Currently
2006 Carrera 4S cab
2008 Cayenne S
2007 Chevy Avalanche LTZ 4WD
Elite Pro-150FD
QuoTE
#14
http://www.6speedonline.comlforums/997/312584-05-06-altemator-battery-cable-issue.htni
Page4-
4/6
Case 5:16-cv-02042
4115/2016
05-06
Document 1-2
Alternator/Battery Cable
Filed 04/19/16
Issue 6SpeedOnine Porsche Forum and
Page
6 of 13
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107-18-2013, 05:09 PM
Gpjli
Apr 2007
long island
Join Date:
Location:
Page5-
Posts: 1, 303
Registered User
n
Power: 74
assf&SMED
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP 997S E
Precisely the problem. I replaced my
years ago and the
effect
on a
cable on my recently sold 2005 997 a
couple of
solved. Trickle
charging the battery has little, if any,
resistance wire/connection) starter/alternator cable.
problem
faulty (high
was
Forget the 'Battery Tender' and bite the bullet and get the cable replaced w/ the latest
version. If you're still under
warranty or CPO PCIVA should replace it at no charge.
Please
no more
suggestions to charge the battery!
Excuse me. Let me be clear here. I own
an 06 S and am on my second battery.
the outset
of ownership my experience has been that without the trickle
charge I get hot start/slow crank
issue. With it I do not. Make what you like of that but
you being argumentative changes nothing.
I understand the nature of the
problem. This has worked for me as I am reporting. Sorry if you
find that a problem. 01
From,
111
107-19-2013,
QUOTE
12:33 AM
441
Join Date: Jun 2012
e
Location:
Posts: 16
kellym
Calgary
Rep Power: 0
Registered User
1-
I've had slow crank issues as well, to the
point of getting a dead battery and I've been stranded
several times while parked away from home. The
battery was less than a year old at the time,
it
was
OEM
brand the previous owner put in. I took my 911 into my dealer under.
some
although
CPO warranty and they replaced the alternator cable at
no charge, thinking they solved the
problem. My car is a 2005 C2S.
Something the dealer service rep told me was very interesting: the alternator does not always,
charge the battery while driving. I was told this is for performance reasons. So my Porsche 997
seems to be really hard on batteries,
especially with stop-park-start again type driving around
town, and the battery really wears down.
Now with
a new alternator cable and also a new Interstate
battery I still sense some slower
cranking after a bunch of driving-parking-driving again around town. I don't notice the slower
crank speeds at all if I've had the trickle charger on the
night before, which tells me the battery
isn't getting fully charged on some of
my drives. I do like to take fast runs around some
cloverleafs and really work the engine, but it's not
always possible everyday. What do other
people experience when doing a lot of city driving?
i:
These experiences worry me a little bit and make me wonder if it's
a good idea to even charge
my smartphone and run a radar detector at the same time around
town, further killing the
battery if the alternator isn't charging it constantly. These electrical experiences are the only
thing I don't like about my 911... not fun to get stranded and have to call for a boost. Twice.
Kelly
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107-19-2013, 0941 AM
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.1111=111"11111111.1
#16,
1
Gpjli
4
Join Date:
Apr 2007
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long island
I:-
4,
Posts: 1, 303
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User
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Wilirer: 74;
i.
5
jair,110
Quote:;
Originally Posted by kellym
I've had slow crank issues as well, to the point of getting a dead battery and I've been
stranded several times while parked away from home. The battery was less than a
year
old at the time, although it was some OEM brand the previous owner put in. I took
my
911 into my dealer under CPO warranty and they replaced the alternator cable at no
charge, thinking they solved the problem My car is a 2005 C2S.
zi, I 1
sspeeopfltine
CTIM
.4.......,
REGISTER NOW >>>>>5>>>
Now with a new alternator cable and also a new Interstate battery I still sense some
slower cranking after a bunch of driving-parking-driving again around town. I don't notice
the slower crank speeds at all if I've had the trickle charger on the night before, which
tells me the battery isn't getting fully charged on some of my ddves. I do like to take
fast runs around some cloverleafs and really work the engine, but it's not always possible
everyday. What do other people experience when doing a lot of city driving?
t.•
s.
i, ir,
Something the dealer service rep told me was very interesting: the alternator does not
always charge the battery while driving. I was told this is for performance reasons. So,
my Porsche 997 seems to be really hard on batteries, especially with stop-park-start
again type driving around town, and the battery really wears down.
These experiences worry me a little bit and make me wonder if it's a good idea to even
charge my smartphone and run a radar detector at the same time around town, further
killing the battery if the alternator isn't charging it constantly. These electrical
experiences are the only thing I don't like about my 911... not fun to get stranded and
/et
W ..S°
V.,
Visit
our
Sponsors
Vendor DiteCtOtV
Inlet este=i
i
=n
AdvertErr=r2,,
I. here.
l
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4/15/2016,
II
05-06
have to call for a boost.
Document 1-2
Alternator/Battery Cable Issue Page
2
Filed 04/19/16
Porsche Forum and
6SpeedOnine
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9 of 13
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Twice.,
P:,
e8-.
Kelly
This is
why to me a trickle charger is a no brainer. Even when off and locked the drain on the
is constant (btw locking the car cuts down somewhat on
battery drain). The generic of the
Porsche charger can be had for under $100. Plugs into
cigarette lighter. No guarantee it will stop
the cable related hot sthrt problem but it will
keep you charged and batteries last longer. CTEK
makes the best one. Porsche puts their name on it and doubles the
price. Got mine from Amazon
6 years
Great
stuff
for
modern
cars es. those that are not used daily. Good luck:
ago.
mg/riming
battery
Lt„.
MNIF:.
Water-Saving,
Lands(
1-866-51 -WHEEL
-ars
Pt' RFORMANCF
[1,
•11
v
Book Now:
GAON
0,
I:
g.
-CI
i
QUOTE
f 1,708-09-2013, 03:59 PM
'Alp
Location:
i
chicago,
.77,
I
"PC 5
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 385
Rep Power: 0.
Registered
User
Alternator
Cable.
11
Porshe should cover the cable and replacement. It is
the design and location of the "V" cable is faulty.
It shoud not take 6+ hours to replace a Y cable.
06 997S Cab
5,
l
"17,
schicago,
Ircii.,,. i:..
midnight
blue
05 997 Cab atlas grey, sea
a
widespread problem, and
it proves that
i
lisil frafiTs.
ir
I
I
/beige interior, blue top
1
blue/with stone grey (traded).:
ADAPIEC
daily drivers/ park where u can
2002 Chrysler 300 M,i:I
1:
2000 Chrysler Concorde
:CI
QUOTE.
D08-10-2013, 05:33 AM
1
—iv,
1
#16
II,
Assr.-...4,
arSS
Join Date: Jul 2011.
Location: Atlanta.
Age:
SlateC2S
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4
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r
fI
15
irer:
411111,
SUSPENSION
'41i/Pr-
E., SY.
(LEPHANTI
woriv-EkipbeafRalung.corn
".ir';"*.411.4*,
Dyi
i:
Has anyone seen
a
decent DYI post anywhere? Anyone
attempted it?
iiillitaillirsovare
"P-Nuts" -Carrera 911S Slate Gray
Porsche 1St (Suncoast), Elk 19in HRE P40 Offset 51/49 (rear-56 w/ 7mm h&r), &Hsieh POS11) Coilovers, Gundo (2" stainless), Drilled
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0
208-10-2013, 08:59
Pedal
Qum,
67faoffitif
AM
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1,
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Rep Power: 94:
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Dadio
'N.
PliOTORSPQRT.
.1"
I
1.
0 :carhon
ri.. 111
1,
1
i,
H
..t^ flr
u
User
.-.111111
4
Autosuossiostu
db44010111ft,
S
‘-r•
Quote:.
Originally Posted by SlateC2S Zi
Has anyone seen a decent DYI post anywhere? Anyone attempted it?.
1
1
i
i
PAINT PROIECIMPI MAI
i
I
Page8issue-2.html
http://www.6speedonlne.com/fonwns1997/312584-05-06-alternator-battery-cable-2/6
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Alternalor/Batteiy Cable Issue Page 2 -6SpeedOnline -Porsche
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Link below to one DIY for the cable. Did the cable
replacement using a post by Equinox but the
link below uses his info
anyway so its almost identical. I did it on '07 C4S and if you have the;
tools it's probably a 5 out of ten. Bulk of the
procedure centers around getting stuff out of the
I
way. The cable replacement part is the easiest part of the whole procedure. Difference is nothing
leSS than remarkable. Car
like
the
even
actually starts up
cheapest car on the planet now. Just,
unbelievable that I had to replaCe a battery cable in my
100 K + Porsche to get it to start like a
20 year old Ford
e9ctiok To Savo On
AR STRIIITS'
Taurus.,
STRUTS
As for for a trickle
charger being the work around, since I changed the cable I do not have to use.
the trickle charger anymore which was a PIA. Trickle
charger is great for storing your car
I
long periods or over the winter but shouldn't be needed for short periods and definitely notfor;
a car.
being used everyday.
As to the question of wether or not you have the cable
Porsche didn't change the cable on the 997.1 cars.
3.85
You have it unless you
changed
it out.
1`
I
Jor
How to replace the alternator cable.
.e
4cceo
5. es
(702)43o-6622
I,:
el
fie Distributing
1..1,3. Atlanct,
i,
QUOTE:
i
1 08-10-2013, 09:11 AM
i
#24 1.
t
PDF
I
1A:
Join Date: Jun 2008
lifialLmtil U1S4,A11.1
LOIVIA
D„:
ad io,
4:, 4,
A
m,,
Aciiii‘ li^
0
i^egistered
1,
User
EXCLUSIVE PrERIWi) WI-IFFILA
i
--.4111111
Quote:
681-846-78138
Originally Posted by Gpjli E,
This is why to me a trickle charger is a no brainer. Even when off and locked the drain
on
the battery is constant (btw
locking the car cuts down somewhat on battery drain). The,
generic of the Porsche charger can be had for under $100. Plugs into cigarette lighter. No
or,
guarantee it will stop the cable related hot start problem but it will keep you charged and
batteries last longer. CTEK makes the best one. Porsche
puts their name on it and
doubles the price. Got mine from Amazon 6 years ago. Great stuff for modern
t
cars, esp,
those that are not used daily. Good
luck,,,
f.
E
ErViahneceelimi;
My '12 Jag XF sits for weeks
at a time and starts immediately without the need of a
trickle.
A constant battery drain significant
enough to render a batten/ the size of the one used
i
in the 997 unable to start the car would not be normal IMO and should be sorted out.
charger.
10
D08-11-2013,
QUOTE
MIMMINIMMEMIIMMIIIIMININ
I
ELAMICSIPIIIIAM
i;
i:n.::.5 V,
10:53 AM
i
i
long island
1, 303
Location:
Posts:
i
arailizAtat
Join Date: Apr 2007
Gpjli
Registered User.
liriaigicid,,
Quote:
Posted by Dadio 0.
XF sits for weeks at a time and starts immediately without the need of a
trickle charger. A constant battery drain significant enough to render a battery the size of
the one used in the 997 unable to start the car would not be normal IMO and should be
sorted out.
Originally
My '12 Jag
iloo 7
f
•1111f
ill..
1
Whatever you do, do NOT
use a
trickle
charger
(41,
starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do with
exhibit slow hot restart issue which was original topic.
My
car
charger
is
Il
PraillAINE
fruarics
Would make sense to me that given a voltage drop of X
(put in a number) due to increased
resistance of cable with engine hot, a battery that is fully charged will perform better than one
that is at say 75% or less due to parasitic drain or short trips.
I
get that this
To my
is
not the solution others want. It works for
knowledge
I Glad
you like your car
I
me
though.
Jaguar does not have the issue that started this post in the first
84X/IflierPhIV
place.
though.
-Ul.
CRIME
44vsoeij
AROMBACHER"
08-11-2013, 07:36 PM
i
i
1
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
El .1... A
0
Posts: 1, 344
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i.
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411512016
05-06
Alternator/Battery Cable
Issue-
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-6SpeedOnline -Porsche
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Forum and
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Iiii
11 of 13
)a Q010-
acgttonionirc Group
L., nnOisseur
[QUOTE=Gpjli;3914240]Whatever you do,
i
1
i
do NOT
use a
trickle
charger
PericcrismeilfilasistExte'rretreisg
87/422-4736
.4,
4
"My car starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o charger also. What it does not do with
charger is:
exhibit slow hot restart issue which was
original topic."
CgiggiTT 0 Nt
Since replacing the
original Alternator to starter cable in my C4S with the improved cable
Porsche exhibits no slow restart
issues, hot or cold, at all and it no longer needs to be on amy.
trickle charger, battery
booster, battery maintainer, Ctek, etc....period.
My Jag never suffered from a slow hot starting issue because
engineered alternator to battery cable.
4
it wasn't delivered with a
poorly:
4.
STUDIO RSR
If your car will not turn over when hot with the same enthusiasum
as it does when cold I suggest
you have it tested for a deffective alternator to starter
wiring harness. Slow starting shouldn't be
explained away as a unique Porsche design characteristic requiring constant battery charging
intervention to overcome.
4,
a
08-12-2013, 0953
AM
1
THE,
-1
COils
#22
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: long island,
alai.
it
Registered
CORE
Posts:
1, 303
User
7. 74
PORSCHE
PARTS
A
'I
[QUOTE=Dadio;3914443]
Quote:
1
I
Originally Posted by Gpjli 1E
Whatever you do, do NOT use
"My
charger
car
i;
11
a
trickle
charger 'Q'l
starts cold after 4 or more weeks w/o
is exhibit slow hot restart issue which
charger also. What it does
original topic."
not do with
was
Since replacing the original Alternator to starter cable in
my C4S with the improved cable:
my Porsche exhibits no slow restart issues, hot or cold, at all and it no
longer needs to;
be on a trickle charger, battery
booster, battery maintainer,
Ctek, etc....period.
My Jag never suffered from a slow hot starting issue because it wasn't delivered with
poorly engineered alternator to battery cable.
If your
will not turn
car
over
when hot with the
same
a
enthusiasum as it does when cold I
suggest you have it tested for a deffective alternator to starter wiring harness. Slow
starting shouldn't be explained away as a unique Porsche design characteristic requiring
constant battery charging intervention to overcome.
Oh here
we are
again.
I see now. Here's my advice to you: Read my
posts. If you still would like
why I should do it PM me. Until then I will continue to;
to pursue what you think I should do and
1: enjoy my Porsche as I have for the past 7.5 years and 36K miles and trickle charge the battery
when I am not driving it. By now neone still
wasting their time on this thread knows what the
problem is and what the choices are. And use spellcheck. I'm outta here.
Last edited
by Gpjli; 08-12-2013
at 09:57 AM.
cpOTE
103-20-2014, 02:37
PM
pvanosta
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Daly City, CA
kegistered
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