Surrey - Public Commission on Legal Aid

Transcription

Commissioner Doust
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October 8, 2010
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Surrey, British Columbia
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(PROCEEDINGS COMMENCED AT 10:04 A.M.)
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Hello, everyone.
My name is Leonard
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Doust and I am the commissioner for the Public
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Commission on Legal Aid.
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with me today Russ Hiebert, member of parliament;
It is my pleasure to have
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Jagrup Brar, member of the legislative assembly;
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City of Surrey councillor Mary Martin; and Diane
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Thorne, Mayor of Surrey.
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This is the Public Commission on Legal Aid to
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answer questions for you.
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legal aid develop in British Columbia?
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legal aid?
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Questions like:
How did
Who funds
Who provides it and so on.
This commission was structured to try to
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determine what the views of the public are with
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respect to priorities in the future of the legal
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aid system and, as well, to seek some assistance,
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hopefully, by way of constructive suggestions with
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respect to how we may improve the delivery of legal
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services in British Columbia.
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We have, of course, called for written
submissions, which the response has been just
Accurate Realtime Reporting Inc. - (604) 685-6050
Commissioner Doust
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excellent.
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they're of a quality that is very impressive and
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I know that they will be very helpful.
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Not only have we received many, but
Of course, we are also in the process -- and
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I think this is our tenth sitting of taking oral
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representations from, particularly, representatives
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of various groups who have interests in legal aid,
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and those oral submissions have been excellent.
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They, too, will be helpful I know.
And I can
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assure all of you that are here for that purpose
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today that your presentation will be taken into
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account.
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And my intention is to review everything that
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we receive both in writing and orally.
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course, and I am certainly not prepared to put a
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time to it, we will be preparing a report that
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I will issue, and it will be made available to both
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governments and to the public.
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In due
I just want to speak for a moment on
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procedural issues.
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introduce you to the Public Commission on Legal Aid
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by way of a five-minute video just to give you some
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background, and then we'll start hearing the
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presentations.
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In a few minutes we will
We have a very full slate today so we're
Allan Parker
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allocating 15 minutes per presentation, and I'm
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going to try to hold everyone strictly to that.
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I have just been advised that I missed Vicki
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Huntington.
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Thank you, Vicki.
I'm sorry about that.
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And we'd like to hear, if we can, what you
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have to say about priorities in terms of the legal
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aid system and any constructive suggestions you may
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have with respect to solutions with respect to the
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delivery of the legal aid services.
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With that, maybe I can ask Michael Litchfield
to play the video, please, Michael.
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[VIDEO PLAYED]
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
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MR. PARKER:
Mr. Parker, please.
Good morning, Mr. Commissioner and panel
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members.
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you this morning.
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Thank you for the opportunity to address
My name is Allan Parker.
I have been a lawyer
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for 31 years here in British Columbia.
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those years were spent in a number of service
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delivery and management positions with the Legal
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Services Society.
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About 20 of
In the most recent decade, if you will, I was
Allan Parker
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the program manager with the Law Line telephone
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service between 2003 and 2007.
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appointed the executive director of the Western
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Canada Society to Access Justice.
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fill the, shall I say, rather large shoes that had
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been led by Douglas Christie.
In 2007 I was
And that was to
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You may know that that organization was merged
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with another pro bono service delivery organization
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to form Access Pro Bono in April of this year, and
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I am currently associate executive director.
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I also have a part-time practice as a small claims
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court mediator through the Court Mediation Program,
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including doing mediations here in Surrey.
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I offer that my practice connection here
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with Surrey is twofold.
In one of my previous
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incarnations with Legal Services Society from 2000
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to 2002 I was a full-time poverty staff lawyer here
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in Surrey, and more recently part of my duties with
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Access Pro Bono is to manage the clinics that we
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operate -- the legal advice clinics that we operate
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around the province, including here in Surrey, of
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which there are in the Surrey/Delta border area
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seven clinics.
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volunteer with our organization provided a service
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to over 300 clients.
And in 2009, the lawyers that
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Just to make a note that Access Pro Bono has
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presented a preliminary written submission to the
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commission, and again we welcome the opportunity
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to speak.
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copy of my speaking notes and also a background
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paper that I'll allude to later that was presented
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on a similar -- in a similar vein to the former
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Attorney General, Mr. Plant, in 2002 at the time
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that the significant cuts were made to poverty
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I have provided to the commissioner a
services and legal aid.
And I pause to say that that paper sadly is
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probably more relevant today -- or as relevant
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today as it was in 2002 in terms of outlining the
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significant impacts that the elimination of poverty
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law services has had an impact in the province.
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Today I am not wearing a particular hat but
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simply here to provide my own comments and
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experiences, and there are four particular points
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that I would like to highlight.
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be brief on those and appreciate that there is much
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that is in writing from many other organizations
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and backgrounds that will, of course, supplement
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what I would be speaking to.
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And, again, I will
My first point is that there is, in my view, a
need to clarify the relationship between pro bono
Allan Parker
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and legal aid.
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definition has offered a reasonably expanded
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definition and a somewhat classic one in the
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provision of legal aid, which is funded services
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for individuals who cannot afford to pay for legal
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assistance.
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And I note that the commission's
Pro bono is usually seen as provision of
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services, again for free, if you will, in common
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with legal aid, but on behalf of the profession
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volunteering -- quite simply, volunteering their
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services.
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really the implication from my viewpoint.
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So when I speak of "pro bono," that's
Regardless of definitions, the commonality is
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providing services to the public -- legal services,
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legal help to the public at no cost.
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challenge, however, and the definitions and the
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issues for pro bono and legal aid are this:
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there is an issue about where the proper role for
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legal aid as a foundation for legal help of the
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public exists, and where the role for pro bono
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ought to fit around that, if you will.
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There is a
That
I suggest there's a threefold reconciliation.
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The first is we as a profession, quite simply, have
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an ethical responsibility to provide services.
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that's in our code of ethics.
And
And I am certainly
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proud to say that we have somewhere between seven
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and eight hundred lawyers associated with our
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organization that provide pro bono services around
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the province.
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Of course, Mr. Parker, that number
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doesn't take into account those of us who accept
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retainers on a pro bono basis just because we
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encounter people in our offices and records of that
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are not kept, right.
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MR. PARKER:
And I fully agree with that.
When I speak
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of "our organization," I would say we would call
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ourselves the more formalized or organized pro bono
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providers.
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the comments by saying that certainly studies by
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our law society indicate that the majority of
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lawyers in this province provide pro bono services
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in one fashion or another.
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in the what I would call traditional or informal
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fashion, and that is they simply provide the
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service without charging a fee.
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
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MR. PARKER:
And I think I will concur and add to
Yes.
Probably, again, more
Thank you.
The second point in the reconciliation is
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that pro bono is not a substitute for properly
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funded legal aid.
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if you like, for our organization.
And that's one of the mantras,
But that leads
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to the third point, which is, in any event, of the
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definitions, pro bono services must work in
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lockstep with legal aid to ensure that the overall
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services, if you will, quite simply of free legal
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help around the province, is provided efficiently.
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I say with some regret that we're probably
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coming up a little short on that front.
And the
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basic challenge for the pro bono movement in
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developing and trying to find niche areas to
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provide services, quite frankly, has been the
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shifting sands of legal aid coverage over the past
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ten years.
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criticism but simply a reality.
And I make that remark really not as a
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Unfortunately, the organization, Legal
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Services Society, has had to respond to budgetary
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realities, and in some instances they've had to do
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that fairly summarily and fairly abruptly.
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has left, unfortunately, is for other complementary
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providers, including pro bono, sometimes a little
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bit of short notice, shall we say, for closure of
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services and other programs.
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What it
And, again, Mr. Commissioner, I'm sure you
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heard of a number, but for the rest of the panel,
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very briefly, outlining that in past years closure
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of the Law Line, for example, the service.
After
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I had left the employment of Legal Services, it was
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closed this year.
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changes to the tariff, reductions in outreach and
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publication services, and a withdrawal from a
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partnership with the Ministry of the Attorney
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General in the operation of Justice Access Centres.
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So things that, quite simply, happened to
Closure of regional offices,
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legal aid which, when you withdraw a service from
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one front or another, the demand doesn't go away.
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It's got to go somewhere else, and it lands with
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other providers, including pro bono.
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My recommendation on this point, then, is that
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there be a formal working group of representatives
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from LSS, the Ministry of the Attorney General, the
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Law Society, and the Law Foundation funded
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providers and Pro Bono representatives to consider
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long-range strategies for coordination of legal
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services.
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Again, I would say parenthetically, yes, we
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chat with each other; yes, we work with each other,
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but in my humble view not sufficiently.
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The second point, addressing the priorities
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for legal aid services.
In my view, the greatest
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need is for representation services in family law
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and poverty law.
And, again, representation,
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I would distinguish that from summary advice
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services or internet services, web services or
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printed literature for the public.
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The perspective I offer today in underlining
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this need again is to go back to what has occurred
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over the past decade and simply say, where are the
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people, where are the clients going for help now?
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The demand and the need is obviously there.
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for example, in 2002 with the Legal Services
And,
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Society there was a complement of 30 poverty staff
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lawyers -- full-time staff lawyers and 52 community
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advocates that were providing poverty law
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representation-type services around the provinces.
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The report that I've appended to my speaking
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notes, Mr. Commissioner, give a full background to
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the location and number of cases that those folks
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were delivering.
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sure the commission has heard already, that entire
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staffing complement was wiped out in 2002.
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stop.
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Quite simply -- and again I'm
Full
Another example was the Law Line telephone
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services for legal services that was formerly
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provided.
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15.
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as program manager.
At its height, it had 15 -- a staff of
That was nine lawyers, five paralegals, myself
15,000 client calls per year.
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That service is now eliminated, gone.
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question again is:
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Many other examples could be offered.
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And my
where are those clients going?
The corresponding perspective, and I offer an
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anecdotal remark, is to say wherever services are
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initiated, the latent demand, if you like, easily
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surfaces.
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as running about 85 summary advice clinics around
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the province, puts on a once-a-year project called
Our organization, for example, as well
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the Advice-a-thon which holds, quite simply, public
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square type of legal advice clinics to advertise
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our services and to demonstrate the need and the
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availability of services.
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We held a clinic in Victory Square complete
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with tents in September of this year.
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prebooking, but, quite frankly, we were swamped, as
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we knew we would be, with walk-in services.
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the public coming by and saying, quite bluntly,
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I can't believe it, a free lawyer; boy, have I got
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a problem.
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there for most of the day giving legal advice to
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people, yes, they had problems; yes, they had
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problems.
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We do some
Here's
And I can tell you as a lawyer who sat
The recommendations, then.
Increased funding
for poverty and family law representation services.
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Corollary to that in terms of service delivery,
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family law representation services to be continued
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through -- delivery through the Legal Services
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tariff system.
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representation services, or may I say a resurrected
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level of services to be provided through
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community-based agencies.
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And, in my view, the poverty law
My third point is a very broad one, but I'll
attempt to be very brief on it.
In my view, there
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should be a priority for ensuring the public is
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aware of their legal rights and access to justice
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services.
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is -- is very knowledgeable about services, about
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the legal -- about the legal system.
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quite simply, when you walk out the door, the
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recognition factor or the knowledge factor or,
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frankly, any confidence in the legal system
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that people can access legal help drops off
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dramatically.
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And I expect that everyone here today
The fact is,
And in some of the more recent documentation
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that's been done on needs assessment, including
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through the Law Foundation, the survey and the
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literature is very disquieting.
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significant least minority of the public isn't even
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aware that in a sense they have a legal problem
Quite simply, a
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or that there is a legal issue or legal focus for
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them to have some kind of resolution, and
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correspondingly, that they have no real knowledge
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of the ability to access services at all.
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So, in other words, we're talking about, you
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know, one end of the spectrum is should we have
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representation services?
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of the spectrum is we have to remind ourselves that
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there's a significant proportion of the public that
Well, yes.
The other end
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is unaware of even the most basic rights and
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issues.
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I won't say the word shock, but a reality that
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I think is important for the commission to focus
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on.
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And that may come as a -- in a sense --
My last point.
And this is closer to home in
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the sense of the provision of services that I'm
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involved in.
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coordination of the programs by direct poverty law
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providers, and this is around the efficiency of the
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organizations that are still providing services or
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some of the newer services that have emerged in
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recent years.
There needs to be a greater
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I will say that while there are some new
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developments, for example, in organizations such as
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ClickLaw, PubNet and the Justice Education Society
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that does provide services or information about
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availability of services, I'm sorry to say that
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I continue to still see some areas of overlap which
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is, again, almost perhaps unfathomable in the sense
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of how can we say, well, we're so stretched, but
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sometimes there is a bit of that residing next to
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ongoing gaps.
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9
And as importantly, in my humble view, a lack
of knowledge within the organizations about
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alternate providers.
And in some instances, again,
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to be frank, there's always a bit of a residue of a
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territorial approach to our own service delivery,
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and I think we need to be candid and open about
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that with the resources, stretched as they are.
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Again -- and I will say this is probably a
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little bit of human nature, as the old saying goes.
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When you're up to your elbows in alligators, you
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can't forget that your role was to drain the swamp.
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And as a person that works day in and day out
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with service provision, I can tell you our first
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priority is the next client coming in the door to
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our clinic.
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responsibility to ensure that we, with all the
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other providers that are out there, are providing
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our services most efficiently.
But in my view, we also have a high
Allan Parker
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A corollary to that, and a little bit of a
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technical one if I can wrap up on this point, is
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I do have some concerns, particularly arising out
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of my experience with the Law Line and, more
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recently, with the number of clinics that Pro Bono
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runs around the province, that there is a somewhat
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troubling small minority of clients that make a
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habit of shopping the various organizations.
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the concern here is that with the traditional rules
And
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of confidentiality and privilege, that we're
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limited somewhat in a more effective way to share
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information in terms of the referrals that we're
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making and perhaps to be clear about what services
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someone has or hasn't received from a related
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organization.
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Recommendations:
A secretariat service
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supported by the Law Foundation, the Law Society,
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the CBA and Ministry of the Attorney General which
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supports cross-organizational networking.
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again, I will say a considerable amount is
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happening, but a more committed approach has to
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be -- has to be found.
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a review by the Law Society of rules which would
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allow organizations to share client information
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where -- carefully, where appropriate to do so, so,
And,
I would recommend a rule --
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again, that we're satisfied when services have
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been given once and, frankly, it's not -- not
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appropriate to do so again, that we have an
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availability to do so.
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And, finally, on an upbeat note, again to
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encourage development of coordinated service
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delivery programs, most notably through -- or have
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included most notably through the Justice Access
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Centre model in Vancouver, of which we are proudly
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a partner.
RUSS HIEBERT:
Thank you.
Just briefly.
I noticed that you -- one of
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your first recommendations was to develop a working
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group between the LSS, LSBC, Attorney General and
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pro bono groups for a long-term strategy.
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I was wondering to what degree do you think that's
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not a duplication of what this commission is trying
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to accomplish since a lot of the same members are
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working together on this commission?
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MR. PARKER:
And
And something continuing needs to be
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in place.
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obviously, one-time.
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recommendations, and flowing from that, in my view,
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there is a need for an ongoing secretariat-type
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service.
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As in -- this commission is -- is,
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Okay.
If -- you will make
Well, thank you very much,
Kamaljit Lehal
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Mr. Parker.
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MR. PARKER:
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
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Thank you.
I hope I pronounced
your name properly.
MS. LEHAL:
Yes.
I have some briefing notes that were
prepared by the organization.
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
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MS. LEHAL:
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Kamaljit Lehal.
Thank you.
I'm not going to read from that.
for background reference.
That's there
But my name is Kamaljit
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Lehal.
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Violence Association of BC.
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as the Specialized Victim Assistance and
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Counselling Program.
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non-profit organization that provides services to
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over 200 funded anti-violence programs across
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British Columbia.
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I'm a supervising lawyer for EVA BC, Ending
It was formerly known
And it's a charitable
Their mandate is to provide support, training,
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undertake research, develop and distribute
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resources, tools, educate the public and the
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government bodies on the needs of the victims of
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violence.
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Now, I've been asked today to present before
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this panel with respect to legal aid services for
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abused immigrant, refugee and non-status women.
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Sorry.
And the second category?
Kamaljit Lehal
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MS. LEHAL:
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
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MS. LEHAL:
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Refugee and non-status women.
Thank you.
When I make my submissions, I might just --
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it might be easier for me just to say "immigrant
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women" generally rather than referring to all of
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these categories.
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Just to put things in perspective.
The reason
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that I've been asked to come today and the reason
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that EVA is concerned about what is happening
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with legal aid is that in the last few years
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there's been a high number of murders in
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British Columbia involving immigrant women.
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As a result of that, EVA was asked by the
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Law Foundation of BC to create and initiate a
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strategic plan on how to increase the safety of
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immigrant women.
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up to the strategic plan, a number of forums were
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conducted by the organization across the province
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and there were focus groups held with organizations
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that are involved with immigrant women and
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front-line workers.
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As part of that process leading
As a result of those focus groups, a number of
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themes were identified, themes that appeared to
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perpetuate and put women at further risk of abuse.
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I'm going to highlight some of those themes for you
Kamaljit Lehal
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so that we can all understand, again, why EVA is
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here.
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A common theme was that immigrant women
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feared leaving an abusive relationship because
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they felt their spouse would be able to take their
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status away, and in many cases -- I'll just
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elaborate a bit.
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risk -- some sort of status -- visitor status or
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non-status and she's married a Canadian or
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permanent resident who's sponsored her for
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permanent residency into Canada.
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being abused, and she's told that if she reports on
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the abusive situation or circumstances that her
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spouse will have her deported so she remains
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in that abusive relationship for fear of being
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deported.
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There may be a woman whose
And this is real here.
That woman's
The focus groups
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revealed that there were accounts of women --
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non-status women that were arrested, referred to
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immigration for having no status and deported when
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they reported abuse.
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their mind; there are exactly examples of this
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occurring.
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So it wasn't just a fear in
In addition, there's a trend back east, and
which may very well pick up here because this
Kamaljit Lehal
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is the federal government that's involved in
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enforcement of immigration issues, where
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enforcement personnel from immigration actually
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attended transition homes to pick up non-status
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women for removal.
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A core theme that we have is an immigration
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system which is focussed on the removal of
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non-status women without regard to any ongoing
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custody issues that these women may face with
10
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respect to Canadian-born children.
So I just pause there to clarify what I mean
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by that is that these women without status have
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ongoing at the same time in the province custodial
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applications and family law matters in the family
15
court realm, but what is happening is that the
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immigration system works in its own bubble, I would
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say, and without regard to the needs of these women
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to take custody over their children.
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seen that women are deported even when they have
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Canadian children and ongoing custody issues.
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And we have
One avenue that these women have to try and
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regularize their status is to embark upon what is
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known as a humanitarian and compassionate
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application for landing.
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that occurred was that -- these are complex
And a common theme
Kamaljit Lehal
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applications, first of all.
And being an immigrant
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woman, not knowing -- not having English as your
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first language, it's a difficult process to engage
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in.
5
application for some form of status, there's no
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ability for them to access essential benefits.
And while they are embarking on this
7
Another recurring theme that we've seen is
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immigrant women who have sponsored someone into
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Canada -- a spouse into Canada who's abused them
10
and left, and then himself gone on welfare has left
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the woman on the hook with that sponsorship debt.
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And I'm sure the panel is aware of that issue.
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It's a quite common one.
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And what has come out through the focus groups
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is -- and I've had, firsthand, clients come to my
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office with this situation, is they've stayed
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through the abusive relationship to avoid incurring
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that sponsorship debt, which is in the thousands.
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
And what -- where do you see a role
for legal services in that context?
MS. LEHAL:
If these women are assured that they'll have
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some form of legal representation to deal with the
23
family law matters as well as the immigration
24
matters and that's the sponsorship debt that
25
they're on, they are more likely to take that step
Kamaljit Lehal
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of coming out of the abusive relationship and
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pursuing these legal avenues.
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COMMISSIONER DOUST:
They do have legal avenues, is my
question?
MS. LEHAL:
Yes, they do.
And with respect to the one
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person which I recently did we were successful in
7
having the sponsorship debt -- well, pretty much
8
there -- written off, but it involved extensive
9
submissions on my part and that was done pro bono.
10
RUSS HIEBERT:
I've also dealt within my own office in
11
situations where people were in that circumstance
12
of dealing with having sponsored somebody who
13
is abusive and reporting it to their MP, and us
14
contacting immigration officials to deal with the
15
situation appropriately.
16
as well.
17
MS. LEHAL:
So there is that avenue
There is that avenue as well, but certainly
18
it -- it can get quite complicated and -- you know,
19
as in this particular case that I had, it involved
20
quite extensive submissions and providing
21
documentation to have the debt written off.
22
But what was concerning was that this woman
23
had said to me that she wouldn't have been able to
24
do this without this assistance, which was at no
25
charge.
And she stayed through the abusive
Kamaljit Lehal
Page 23
1
relationship as long as she could because she
2
didn't want to have to be in that scenario of
3
having to owe money.
4
children.
5
And she had two young
And recently -- Mr. Parker has spoken here for
6
Access Justice, but I also do provide assistance.
7
I'm going this afternoon to provide some assistance
8
at a clinic.
9
you're almost not even a legal advocate; you're
I've had women there as well.
And
10
counselling in another sense as well to get out, be
11
safe, safety is the first and foremost thing that
12
should be in your mind.
13
you know, I can't -- I can't make that next step,
14
I need assistance; I need some legal counsel by my
15
side to help me go through this process.
16
too overwhelming for them.
17
walk out in tears and decided to stay in the
18
circumstance because my piecemeal legal advice at
19
the clinic was not sufficient.
20
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
But to them it's -- well,
It's just
So I had a woman
I suppose it's one thing to get some
21
steering and some summary advice, but it's another
22
to have a lawyer who's prepared and capable of
23
preparing all the documentation and putting her
24
best foot forward.
25
MS. LEHAL:
Is that what you're saying?
Absolutely, absolutely.
And another example
Kamaljit Lehal
Page 24
1
I will give you is women who have come into Canada.
2
They have been sponsored and they're abused.
3
they -- they're trying to make that -- they have
4
taken that step of leaving the abusive relationship,
5
but they have no one here.
6
sponsor someone from back home, but because,
7
most likely, they're on welfare, they're ineligible
8
to sponsor a family member to help them with, let's
9
say, the young children while they try to get back
And
So they want to try to
10
on their feet.
11
situation which perpetuates for some of them
12
going back.
13
relationship than to have no support whatsoever,
14
and it makes a difference to have legal counsel by
15
your side through that process.
16
And they're stuck in this -- this
It's easier just to stay in an abusive
So the point I was coming to was that these
17
common themes that we identified, the compounding
18
feature in all of this is that the access to legal
19
aid is very limited, if -- I would say almost
20
non-existent for these women.
21
effect is that many of these women choose to stay
22
in the abusive relationship rather than risk being
23
removed from the country.
24
25
And the unfortunate
Now, I just want to touch upon the immigration
realm and the family law realms sort of separately
Kamaljit Lehal
Page 25
1
in terms of what I see as a lawyer is there for
2
women or is not there.
3
If a woman is detained by immigration, she is
4
provided with duty counsel.
And I do do duty
5
counsel as well.
6
48-hour representation for individuals.
7
that, there's a seven-day review if the person
8
stays in detention and then a 30-day review.
9
There's no mandatory requirement for duty counsel
There's mandatory provision for
Beyond
10
to attend those hearings.
11
list, you're going to go with the mandatory ones,
12
which are 48 hours.
13
And if you've got a long
Outside of detention, there's no automatic
14
provision for legal aid for women.
15
woman being picked up and she's taken into
16
detention, she'll get some assistance at the first
17
round, after that no.
18
conditions, there's no legal aid services.
19
So a non-status
She's released on terms and
Likewise, if that woman is pursuing a refugee
20
claim, the way that the legal aid is right now it's
21
bifurcated the assistance that lawyers can give.
22
We are giving coverage to prepare the persecution
23
statement, and then that's it for a while.
24
then until a hearing date is set, we're not given
25
coverage again.
And
So there's this gap between
Kamaljit Lehal
Page 26
1
services, lack of continuity which makes it
2
difficult to represent a client because once a
3
hearing date comes around, they can't get the
4
documents in.
5
But beyond that, for women who have taken that
6
step to come out of an abusive relationship, to not
7
have that ongoing guidance of a lawyer throughout
8
the whole process, it -- again, it's easier for
9
them to just stay in the abusive relationship.
10
And I touched upon this other one earlier,
11
this other point.
12
humanitarian applications, they are very complex
13
and it's really their only opportunity to try and
14
stay in Canada.
15
many of these, it's not something you do really
16
quickly.
17
make sure you are able to reach that status of
18
convincing an officer that there's humanitarian
19
grounds.
20
her own could do and there's no legal aid funding
21
for that.
22
needs improvement.
23
Agency applications and
And as legal counsel who has done
You have to cover many bases and
It's not something an immigrant woman on
So -- and that's an area that definitely
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
And I suppose all of these areas, if
24
there are couples who have children, have a direct
25
impact on the children.
Kamaljit Lehal
1
MS. LEHAL:
Absolutely.
Page 27
And that's the next point I was
2
going to touch on, the family law realm.
There is
3
coverage, but again it's not adequate.
4
time is allocated.
5
focus is on immigration law.
6
groups that were held by EVA, that was a prevalent
7
theme, that the amount of coverage allocated to
8
family lawyers was not sufficient.
9
complicating factor for immigrant women is that
Not enough
I'm not a family law lawyer; my
And from the focus
But the more
10
they have these whole host of other problems.
11
They've got CBSA immigration on their backs and
12
removal procedures happening while at the same time
13
they have a complex custody issue taking place, and
14
the two spheres are not working together.
15
may get coverage for legal aid in the family law
16
context but no coverage in the immigration context.
17
And here what we see a need for is that there needs
18
to be legal aid provided for not just a family law
19
lawyer but an immigration lawyer.
20
extremely complex.
21
They
These cases are
The net effect is, then, that women who are
22
fleeing abuse without the ability to access legal
23
representation choose to remain in abusive
24
relationships.
25
also missing is that for a lot of these women there
And one very important piece that's
Kamaljit Lehal
Page 28
1
are no interpreters -- there's no funding for
2
interpreters.
3
access to a lawyer, it's very hard for a lawyer to
4
represent that client if they are not able to
5
communicate with one another.
6
critical missing link throughout all of this,
7
whether it's immigration law or family law.
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
MS. LEHAL:
Yes.
So even if they do ultimately get
And that's a
You're getting close to your time.
The -- I think I'll just conclude by
10
saying that the lack of legal aid not only denies
11
justice to these women, but it puts themselves and
12
their children at risk and it's a dangerous but
13
inevitable domino effect.
14
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
15
MR. BRAR:
It puts them at risk.
Could I quickly ask.
I just want to -- I just
16
want to comment and ask for your reflection on
17
that.
18
nature you have been talking about this morning.
19
I understand the issue of language is a severe one,
20
I understand the issue of the non-status situation
21
and they choose to continue being in that
22
situation, but I would like to say the two points
23
which I think are very striking.
24
lack of awareness about the concept of legal aid
25
because of the background they come from.
I do receive quite a bit of cases of such
One is a complete
Kamaljit Lehal
Page 29
1
There's no -- there's very little information and
2
understanding in the community among those people
3
about the -- about the legal aid.
4
thing.
So that's one
5
The second part is -- which is also very
6
troubling sometimes which makes legal aid -- legal
7
aid much less accessible and effective, and that is
8
because -- particularly a lot of immigrants are
9
coming from -- visible minority immigrants are
10
coming from a different culture.
11
families for this always -- you know, very quick in
12
that kind of situation.
13
when a woman in that situation is pushed away
14
from the family, the first thing happens is that
15
somebody comes with a cheque, with money and -- to
16
support that person in that situation.
17
cheque is there and goes to the bank, wherever it
18
came from, the father or the brother of that woman,
19
and then if you go to legal aid or even welfare,
20
and they say you already have money.
21
with that kind of situation on a very regular
22
basis, so I want your reflection on that in that
23
situation.
24
25
MS. LEHAL:
I agree.
said.
And where
So the first thing happens
So once the
So I deal
I agree with everything that you've
Being immigrant women, they come with a
Kamaljit Lehal
Jennifer Lopes
Page 30
1
whole host of other dynamics to their cases that
2
make it even more difficult, and ongoing education
3
of immigrants is critical.
4
And one of the first points I started out with
5
was the fact that many women live under this myth
6
that they can be deported if they leave an abusive
7
situation.
8
another area that our strategic plan is focussing
9
and concentrating on.
So that's legal education that is
But for today's purpose,
10
I'm here to identify that there are -- there is an
11
inadequacy and almost there is -- there is an
12
absence of critical legal services for these
13
immigrant women.
14
many of them are having -- feel like they have no
15
choice but to stay in the abusive relationship.
16
17
And the effect of that is that
So I'll conclude with that.
And thank you for
giving us time.
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
19
MS. LOPES:
Thank you.
Jennifer Lopes.
Good morning, commissioners.
My name is
20
Jennifer Lopes, and I practice law as Crown counsel
21
in Surrey Provincial Court and New Westminster Supreme
22
Court and have done so for 11 years.
23
secretary of the British Columbia Crown Counsel
24
Association, and I'm currently the administrative
25
Crown in charge of trial scheduling at Surrey
I'm also
Jennifer Lopes
1
2
Page 31
Provincial Court.
I would like to address with you this morning
3
the importance of legal aid to a fair, just and
4
efficient system in the criminal justice system.
5
As Crown counsel, we are responsible for approving
6
and conducting criminal prosecutions in the
7
province of British Columbia.
8
the Crown Counsel Act which was passed in 1991
9
and by our professional obligations under the Law
10
11
We are governed by
Society Rules.
There are almost 500 prosecutors employed by
12
the Attorney General currently.
13
to understand the role of Crown counsel in our
14
system, you must know that we have almost a
15
quasi-judicial role and we owe a duty of fairness
16
to all of the participants.
17
Supreme Court of Canada that it is our role not so
18
much to obtain a conviction in court but to assist
19
the judge and jury.
20
And just briefly,
It is mandated by the
I am telling the commission this because what
21
happens when there is not a lawyer on the other
22
side as defence counsel, the role of Crown counsel
23
and the obligations to the court become even more
24
onerous.
25
that affects the fairness of the system and the
And it's my submission to you that
Jennifer Lopes
1
2
Page 32
efficiency of the system.
When there are unrepresented accused, the
3
system loses both the efficiency and the fairness
4
for all of the participants.
5
the issue of fairness for a moment.
6
I'd like to deal with
Criminal law is very complex and it becomes
7
so more every day.
People who have no training
8
or exposure to criminal law are at a severe
9
disadvantage.
Although as Crown I and the judge
10
presiding take extra pains to ensure the fairness
11
to an unrepresented accused, this cannot alleviate
12
all of the problems.
13
deserves to have their rights protected.
14
protecting the accused's rights, we protect the
15
rights of all of us.
Fundamentally, every accused
In
16
We also need to consider the issue of fairness
17
and unrepresented accused in relation to witnesses.
18
I would ask you to think about coming to court.
19
Let's say you witnessed a stabbing or a robbery,
20
you have to give evidence about what happened.
21
Then you get cross-examined by the accused, the
22
very person that you pointed to and said, this is
23
the person who committed the crime.
24
you could be the victim and again you're facing
25
that person in court.
Even worse,
Jennifer Lopes
1
Page 33
I can assure you that we find it very
2
difficult to get people to come to court these
3
days, and I think that it would become even more
4
difficult if they knew they were going to be
5
cross-examined by the accused.
6
Lastly, on the fairness issue.
Everyone is
7
entitled to the presumption of innocence, and the
8
onus is always upon the Crown to prove the case
9
beyond a reasonable doubt.
The accused doesn't
10
have to prove anything.
11
people don't understand how this works.
12
unrepresented accused tell the court, I just want
13
to tell you my story, and inevitably they end up
14
saying something that hurts them in the end.
15
In my experience, most
Often
And I also think that a greater problem within
16
the system is efficiency.
17
crippling at this point any loss of efficiency in
18
the criminal justice system is, I would like to
19
briefly tell you the state that we are in.
20
To understand how
Currently, the criminal justice system is
21
dealing with dwindling resources, expanding duties
22
of disclosure, increasingly complicated litigation,
23
and an overall increase in files.
24
Surrey Provincial Court --
25
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Sorry.
Just looking at
You made four points there.
Jennifer Lopes
Page 34
1
Dwindling resources, disclosure is expanding --
2
what else?
3
MS. LOPES:
Increasingly complicated litigation.
4
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
5
MS. LOPES:
Yes.
Looking at the Surrey numbers, we increased --
6
a seven percent increase in files just in Surrey
7
Provincial Court from last year to this year.
8
Surrey Provincial Court is responsible for almost
9
13 percent of all the criminal files in the
10
11
province of British Columbia.
And
We are very busy.
Recently, there have been delay applications
12
brought.
13
takes for a charge to be sworn until the first
14
trial date.
15
between 10 and 14 months to get a trial date.
16
means that the accused, the witnesses, including
17
victims, have to wait over a year just to have the
18
case heard.
19
that day, that date -- that trial is adjourned for
20
another period of time.
21
This has to do with the time that it
Currently in Surrey, files are taking
That
If there is not enough court time on
This week in Surrey a case was dismissed due
22
to a 21-month delay it took to get to trial.
23
are dealing with a very serious delay issue, and
24
anything that adversely affects the efficiency of
25
the criminal justice system will add to that
We
Jennifer Lopes
1
Page 35
problem.
2
I would like to explain how an unrepresented
3
accused, those that cannot afford a lawyer or are
4
not eligible for legal aid assistance, affects
5
efficiency.
6
It's not an exhaustive list.
7
I'm just going to use three examples.
The system is basically adversarial and it's
8
balanced when you have counsel on both sides.
9
counsel can reach a number of agreements that will
10
make it so that a trial isn't necessary at the end
11
of the day.
12
And
One of those is discussions about resolution.
13
The system really can only be maintained if a lot
14
of cases are dealt with early and not set for
15
trial.
16
domestic violence, which is an area greatly cut by
17
the -- greatly affected by the cuts to legal aid.
18
An example I can give you is the cases of
I can tell you often our goal in the criminal
19
justice system is family reunification.
After the
20
accused has taken responsibility for his criminal
21
act and gone to treatment, usually, this can all be
22
facilitated by Crown and defence counsel working
23
together.
24
counsel with the accused.
25
the accused is unrepresented.
The Crown with the victim, defence
This cannot happen when
I cannot as Crown
Jennifer Lopes
Page 36
1
counsel direct him to go and do things.
2
my role.
3
That isn't
Another area that is greatly affected is
4
pretrial discussions with regards to admissions.
5
Admissions are facts that are agreed on by both
6
sides that will reduce the trial time.
7
agree that certain witnesses are not needed and
8
evidence can go in written form.
9
helpful with medical witnesses and other technical
10
evidence.
11
and time it takes for a trial.
12
Counsel can
This is very
This is a huge help in reducing the cost
The example I can give you is if I need to
13
call a doctor in the case of -- say it's an assault
14
case and I need to call a medical doctor, defence
15
counsel and I can agree to have the medical report
16
entered as evidence.
17
doctor who has to take a day out of their practice
18
to come to court, the Attorney General doesn't have
19
to pay the medicolegal fees for that doctor and the
20
time of the trial is greatly reduced.
21
cannot do that with an unrepresented accused.
I don't have to call that
Again, we
22
Lastly, what Crown and defence counsel can
23
do together is reduce -- narrow the legal issue
24
of a trial.
25
usually cuts down witness lists significantly.
This saves time and resources.
It
Jennifer Lopes
Page 37
1
And, again, that is only something that you can do
2
with defence counsel on the other side, not with an
3
unrepresented accused who is not aware of what the
4
legal issues are.
5
Just briefly, I'll give you an example from my
6
own experience what a trial is like when there is
7
no lawyer for the accused.
8
prosecution on a dangerous driving case, and I came
9
into court and realized that the accused did not
I was conducting a
10
have a lawyer.
11
provide an opening address, which is not something
12
we normally do in provincial court, so I -- I did
13
that.
14
officers I had there, which normally I probably
15
would have let many go back to their job on the
16
road or we would have sent them home and not be
17
paying their double overtime pay, all had to stay
18
for the entire day because I couldn't with the
19
unrepresented accused come to any agreement about
20
their evidence.
21
I was then asked by the judge to
And I realized that all of the police
A recent Supreme Court of Canada case had just
22
come down on the issue of dangerous driving.
23
to provide that case to the unrepresented accused
24
and tell him what I thought might be applicable to
25
his case and that he should probably go get some
I had
Jennifer Lopes
1
2
Page 38
legal advice about that.
I should tell you that this was supposed to be
3
a four-hour trial.
4
the impression that it became much more than that.
5
You're probably already getting
The accused gave evidence on his own behalf.
6
It wasn't to his benefit at the end of the day, it
7
wasn't favourable.
8
supposed to begin and end in one day went over for
9
three months so that we could deal with the extra
10
11
We had to adjourn.
What was
legal issues.
And so you can see it all takes more time,
12
more money and is unfair.
13
when people do not have access to legal aid so that
14
they can have defence counsel during the criminal
15
proceeding.
16
And that is what happens
It is my opinion that the criminal justice
17
system can only ensure fairness and efficiency if
18
the accused is provided with counsel if they cannot
19
afford it.
20
fair trial is a hallmark of our society and
21
enshrined in the Charter.
22
that we need to strive to protect them, and that
23
the legal aid delivery of services in the criminal
24
justice system is a cornerstone to this.
25
And this protection of rights and a
And it is my opinion
Those are my submissions.
Jennifer Lopes
1
RUSS HIEBERT:
Page 39
Do you have any idea overall what
2
additional cost it is to the justice system to have
3
unrepresented accused?
4
MS. LOPES:
No, I don't know what the overall cost
5
is.
6
calculate because the calculation would have to
7
include, as I said, anywhere from all of the extra
8
trial time to the extra expense of witnesses that
9
are called that may not have been necessary, the
I think that it would be very difficult to
10
adjournments.
11
and more of this happening because as each area of
12
law is not provided for by legal aid, more and more
13
people are coming in and saying, I'm doing it
14
myself.
15
immeasurable in some ways.
16
And I -- what we're seeing is more
And the increased cost, I think, is
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
There's a cost in the sense of the --
17
perhaps the accused not getting the full benefit of
18
the legal rights to which he or she may be
19
entitled, but the difficulty in quantifying it in
20
economic terms is that you've got extra time for
21
the judge, extra time for the prosecutor, extra
22
time for the sheriffs and the security people,
23
you've got extra time for the witnesses that are --
24
that have been called.
25
you say, they are police officers who are pulled
And in many instances, as
Jennifer Lopes
Page 40
1
off the street and get paid extra.
2
are just compounded by the fact that you can't make
3
any kind of agreements to obviate the necessity of
4
calling those witnesses.
5
trouble to members of the public who are called
6
back because, as you say, we end up adjourning it
7
because of complexities that can't be dealt with at
8
that point in time.
9
All of which
You've got extra time and
Again, it all reflects on the extra burden
10
that the system is carrying.
The whole ship gets
11
shifted over and it may get shifted again.
12
you, I'm sure, would agree with me -- I've been
13
told a number of times in the hearings that I've
14
had so far -- that something like 80 to 85 percent
15
of criminal cases are resolved without the
16
necessity of a trial when counsel are involved
17
because they're able to sit down together and
18
resolve the issues either by diverting the person
19
completely out of the system or agreeing on what
20
charges there will be a plea to and/or agreeing on
21
what the sentence will be.
22
package together.
23
because it avoids the whole question of the trial
24
process and the inconvenience, cost and expense to
25
the system and to members of the public.
And
In effect, they put a
And that's very desirable
Jennifer Lopes
1
MS. LOPES:
Page 41
That is correct.
I would entirely agree with
2
that.
And, in fact, I would go so far as to say
3
that the more we see of -- the more that counsel
4
isn't there and reaching these early dispositions,
5
as we call them --
6
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
7
MS. LOPES:
Yes.
-- one way or the other, I think, frankly, the
8
system will collapse.
9
handle it.
In Surrey we could not
If even more trials were set at this
10
point, we're in danger of losing cases just due to
11
delay.
12
in, say to an early guilty plea -- and I can tell
13
you because the types of files that I do where
14
I have victims on the other side, victims are so
15
relieved when they don't have to come to court
16
and give evidence.
17
disposition done early so that they can move on
18
with the rest of their lives and heal.
19
they're not able to do that while the system is
20
grinding its way very slowly.
21
immeasurable gain we get when two counsel can
22
come together and work on a resolution to a file
23
where all of the parties involved can know that
24
their rights were protected, they've been heard,
25
and the just thing was done at the end of the day.
And the amount of work that counsel puts
I work very hard to get a
Because
And that's another
Jennifer Lopes
1
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Page 42
And if I can just add.
Sorry.
To
2
make it abundantly clear, everyone has a
3
constitutional right to have their trial within a,
4
quote, reasonable
5
time, unquote.
6
get too much of a backlog in the court system, as
7
you've indicated in the one case anecdotally, what
8
happens is the judges become compelled to just
9
dismiss the charges because the trial's not capable
10
And what's happening is when you
of being held within a reasonable time.
11
MS. LOPES:
12
MS. MARTIN:
That's correct.
Thank you for your presentation this morning.
13
We at the City of Surrey have been advocating to
14
the province for five years now to have a community
15
court here in the city of Surrey.
16
very successful -- community court is very
17
successful, processing quickly and alleviating some
18
of the -- the costs on the courts.
19
that -- do you think that that would help the
20
delays and the costs?
21
MS. LOPES:
I know that it's
Is that something
It would -- it will really depend on the form
22
that the community court has.
I think there is
23
success in Vancouver with their community court.
24
Again, the community court will work if
25
representation is provided to all sides.
So,
Jennifer Lopes
Page 43
1
again, if you're going to have those same
2
unrepresented accused coming in, yes, you may be
3
focussed on them, but you're going to encounter the
4
same problems that we're encountering just in
5
regular court.
6
We could -- we could run a very efficient
7
system, but that takes money.
And it -- all of
8
the -- all of the things we need for an effective
9
and efficient criminal justice system are there,
10
but we need to fund them properly.
11
other side, legal aid needs to be there so that the
12
accused are represented as well.
13
MS. MARTIN:
And the
When we visited two community -- three
14
community courts in New York City, they had one
15
judge and a prosecutor and a defender always there,
16
you know, every day, so every -- every accused,
17
obviously, had that support.
18
Yeah, I really hope that the province somehow
19
finds a way to get a community court here in
20
Surrey.
I think it would be very effective.
21
MS. LOPES:
Thank you.
22
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
23
MS. HUNTINGTON:
Better go quickly, please.
Yes.
Not being of the legal profession,
24
could you explain, please, what prevents Crown
25
counsel from speaking to an unrepresented accused
Jennifer Lopes
Page 44
1
and working any of these dispositions out with
2
them?
3
that?
4
MS. LOPES:
Is there a tradition or a law that prevents
No.
We can -- we can have discussions with
5
the accused, but at the end of the day we could
6
walk in front of the judge and the accused -- and
7
the judge will say, so-and-so, you're -- I understand
8
you want to plead guilty?
9
Crown told me that I should do it.
And he'll say, yeah, the
And where do we
10
go from there?
11
be as a fair and impartial a Crown as I possibly
12
can be, it's important in the accused's mind
13
whether they have been dealt with that way.
14
they know that I'm the Crown; I'm not their lawyer.
15
So you run into all of those issues.
16
Because even though I am trying to
And
So, yes, I can have those discussions and
17
I can say, you know, these are your options.
18
always -- at the end of the day I say, and you need
19
to go get some legal advice about those because
20
although I can tell you what they are, I can't --
21
I cannot guide or direct the accused into doing one
22
thing or another because it's -- it just becomes a
23
conflict at that point.
24
25
MR. BRAR:
Just very, very quickly.
presentation.
But
Thanks for your
Lately there has been quite a bit of
Jennifer Lopes
Page 45
1
discussion in the media about the -- what you call
2
lack of judges in the court system, that we need
3
more.
4
telling me, that there's also serious lack on the
5
other end of this whole justice system, which is
6
lack of support systems to the accused.
And I understand that.
But what you're
7
So if we have a well-funded legal aid system,
8
how much -- is there any figure you can give me or
9
any sense you can give me how much workload it will
10
actually take away from the court system, people
11
that are not going to the court and resolving the
12
issues before going to that level?
13
MS. LOPES:
Yes.
Firstly, I'll say I agree that there
14
is -- the judicial bench needs to be increased so
15
that there are more sitting courts.
16
as the -- every day what I do is I help prepare the
17
list of what's going to happen in court.
18
tell you in Surrey there's generally 20 hours of
19
court time, trial time in each courtroom per day
20
[sic].
21
or they have to be called out, that 20 hours then
22
gets put on top of another 20 hours in a courtroom.
23
So you can imagine what -- what that does.
24
25
I can tell you
And I can
So if we -- if we lose a judge to sickness
And then as Crown counsel, we have been
subjected to the same budget limitations as imposed
Jennifer Lopes
Page 46
1
by the provincial government in all areas.
So
2
I currently have approximately 40 prosecutors, but
3
if someone goes on parental leave or maternity
4
leave or gets ill or retires, they're not replaced, right,
5
because of the current restraints on that.
6
also have less -- more files, but prosecutors who
7
are not being replaced so their file loads are
8
greater.
9
prosecutor to court, and they will have three or
So you
So I, on a normal day, will send a
10
four trials for that day and all of the witnesses
11
that go with that, right.
12
issues all along the way.
13
So there's resourcing
And then when you get to the unrepresented
14
accused, it's very difficult for me to measure that
15
except to tell you that all of -- what we can do
16
and what we can get done every day will be greatly
17
helped by having defence counsel on the other side
18
to deal with so we can do all of the negotiations
19
that I've talked to you about before.
20
quantify it, but I would imagine that it would
21
provide -- you know, having that there will make
22
a fundamental difference to the criminal justice
23
system.
24
25
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
And I can't
It's the same question you were
responding to a little earlier.
You can't quantify
Susan Sellick
Page 47
1
in dollars the value that you get.
2
eliminate all those problems and you can say, more
3
than just imagining it, the fact of the matter is
4
there will be considerable savings of time, effort
5
and of money.
6
MS. LOPES:
7
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
8
MS. LOPES:
9
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
10
You can
I think you'd agree with that.
Exactly.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
SUSAN SELLICK:
Susan Sellick, please.
Good morning, commissioners.
I'm Susan
11
Sellick, one of the housing stabilization outreach
12
workers from Newton Advocacy.
13
has been around a long time.
14
1991 by four women around a kitchen table that
15
needed a response to government processes.
16
Newton Advocacy is the only agency -- the only
17
advocacy agency all the way from Tsawwassen to
18
Aldergrove.
19
NAGS, as we call it,
It was started in
Today
Our catchment area is 750,000 people, so we
20
have five advocates to serve 750,000.
Each
21
advocate gets upward of a thousand requests for
22
services each year.
23
upwards of 6 00 requests for services each year.
24
We serve people with little or no income.
25
with income assistance, advocacy, residential
My outreach partner and I get
We deal
Susan Sellick
Page 48
1
tenancy advocacy, CPP disability, and now housing
2
outreach and women's programs.
3
While we're able to provide assistance in
4
these administrative areas, we are not helping with
5
EI, WCB, debt, medical issues, competency issues
6
and marital breakdown.
7
with the absence of legal aid that are affecting
8
and significantly impacting people who live in
9
poverty.
10
These are just a few areas
Without legal aid, people's perception of
11
their ability to defend themselves reduces
12
confidence not for only MEIA recipients but for
13
low-income earners.
14
situations with you.
15
So I'll go over a few
Tenants are suffering in residential tenancy
16
issues.
We have one residential tenancy worker who
17
works from a perspective of sustaining housing and
18
preventing homelessness.
19
tenancy case goes to a judicial review or requires
20
more than what our residential tenancy worker is
21
able to do, the tenants often are left without
22
being able to represent themselves and are
23
prevented from having a fair shake with landlords
24
that are already identified as slum lords.
25
provides another loophole for these kind of
So when a residential
This
Susan Sellick
Page 49
1
landlords, knowing that there's no representation
2
after a certain point in their cases.
3
There are only two places now that our clients
4
know of to get this sort of assistance, with CLAS
5
and with PIAC.
6
than what we are.
7
And they're even more backlogged
Okay.
Another situation.
So imagine that you're an
8
average Joe living on a -- a lower than average
9
income collecting MEIA and perhaps you're in
10
JobWave doing an employment search.
11
housing that was very hard to find, maybe furniture
12
that came from donations, maybe a bed that's been
13
provided by the Salvation Army on your crisis grant
14
allowance for the year.
15
okay, and you're getting by cheque to cheque like
16
most of us do.
17
You've got
Your house is -- it's
Then along comes legislation that says that
18
you have to declare any outstanding warrant.
Well,
19
five years before you settled in BC, you may have
20
been picked up on shoplifting in Ontario before you
21
settled down and got serious about your life.
22
now you have two options.
23
guilty and accept the criminal record and the
24
obvious impact it will have on your future
25
employability, or you'll be given a one-way bus
So
You can either plead
Susan Sellick
Page 50
1
ticket to the province that the warrant originated
2
in and told to go deal with your warrant, only the
3
ticket that you're given is one way, you have
4
nowhere to stay when you get to the province and
5
you have no food.
6
punishing the poor -- my, my -- when we come from a
7
place that believes in equality and equal access to
8
justice for each and every citizen regardless of
9
ability to pay.
10
Hmm, kind of sounds to me like
Last week I visited Surrey pretrial, as I do
11
sometimes in my outreach work, assisting my clients
12
and other individuals on reintegrating into the
13
community.
14
been sitting in Surrey pretrial on a breach since
15
July.
16
himself.
17
able to do some research and find a little-known
18
application that allows him to have representation
19
because of the serious nature of his crimes, but
20
for the average person sitting in jail on a breach
21
their cases get held over, held over and eventually
22
they use duty counsel to get out on time served.
23
This is not how the system is supposed to work.
24
25
I have one particular client that's
He, to this point, has been representing
And through his own fortitude, he's been
There's never been as many people as there are
now representing themselves.
Cases are held over
Alison Brewin
Page 51
1
and held over and are dragging on.
2
people are further impeded by the loss of the
3
Law Line.
4
resources and referral.
5
And as well,
The Law Line was a hub of information,
So in the long run, the bigger picture.
6
loss of the legal services has created an even
7
bigger impact on taxpayers.
8
compromise legal aid any further.
9
to be thoroughly and adequately funded.
10
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
11
MS. BREWIN:
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
MS. BREWIN:
Thank you.
The
We cannot afford to
Legal aid needs
Thank you.
Alison Brewin.
It's Brewin, by the way.
Thank you.
So my name is Alison Brewin.
I know
14
some of you.
I want to thank the elected officials
15
for joining us today.
16
commitment to engaging in resolving and finding
17
solutions to this issue.
I think it illustrates a
18
I'm the executive director of West Coast LEAF,
19
which is the Women's Legal Education in Action Fund
20
here in BC; I'm also the author of Legal Aid
21
Denied, a 2004 report on legal aid; and the cochair
22
of the Coalition For Public Legal Services.
23
West Coast LEAF exists to advance equality in
24
the law by addressing the historical disadvantage
25
of women.
We do this through litigation law reform
Alison Brewin
Page 52
1
and public legal education.
2
direct legal services, despite getting many, many
3
calls from women looking for help.
4
endeavour to articulate the intersection of women's
5
inequality and the law to lawmakers in court, to
6
the government and to the general public.
7
We don't provide
But we
On the issue of legal aid, we address our
8
thoughts and analysis to the issue of legal
9
representation and advice.
Those are the things --
10
that's where the gap is.
11
internet has all kinds of great resources, there
12
are wonderful community advocates around the
13
province, there are alternatives to the court
14
system that have developed over the years.
15
are not where the gaps are in legal aid.
16
Pamphlet law exists.
The
These
To frame the direct impact of access to
17
justice issues on the work of West Coast LEAF,
18
because we ...
Yeah.
I'll just share two stories
19
about our experience.
One was articulated earlier
20
by EVA, but when we desire to make our information
21
about constitutional rights and human rights
22
available to those who need it most, women whose
23
rights -- who experience violation of their rights.
24
And in this effort -- in this effort we identified
25
a desire to translate some of our information and
Alison Brewin
Page 53
1
materials for the community at large.
And one
2
of the issues, in consultation with front-line
3
workers, that we all know about now, is non-status
4
women.
5
advocates and others about what rights do they have
6
in Canada, not to mention the women themselves,
7
obviously.
8
actually advised by our community partners not to
9
tell women about their rights because then they
And there's a great deal of confusion among
And at the end of the day, we were
10
would think they had them.
11
about their rights was to create an assumption that
12
they could access them.
13
the wealthiest nations in the world.
14
That to tell women
This is in Canada, one of
The second story is that we were involved in
15
an intervention at the Supreme Court of Canada
16
about the right to fair separation agreements in
17
family law.
18
great cost and energy to ourselves to get there and
19
be there, to imbue into family law Charter values
20
and be sure that those Charter values were
21
reflected in family law.
22
It's called Rick v. Brandsema.
At
It was a win.
The court agreed with the arguments that we
23
made.
We gained one right for women in Canada, to
24
ensure that they had fair separation agreements and
25
that the court was willing to look into separation
Alison Brewin
Page 54
1
agreements because of the historical disadvantage
2
of women.
3
Since then, we've had numerous calls from
4
women and advocates saying, oh, my god, there's
5
this ridiculously unfair separation agreement that
6
she signed off on, how do we get it changed?
7
the answer is, good luck with that.
8
family law lawyers around; legal aid doesn't cover
9
that.
And
There's some
So what's the point of our existence?
10
What's the point of going to court, winning rights
11
when they can't access them?
12
direct experiences for us.
13
So those are two
In terms of our legal aid system, I want to
14
make it really, really clear that this is a matter
15
of law.
16
for those of you who weren't there, presented a
17
great outline of international treaties and
18
committees that have suggested, pointed out,
19
asserted that Canada's access to justice issues are
20
serious, and that in BC in particular there's an
21
issue that needs to be addressed.
22
to their submission to go through that.
23
through it again.
24
25
That yesterday the Lawyers' Right Watch,
I'll refer you
I won't go
My question is, why is it that we have -- we,
public interest, equality seeking organizations
Alison Brewin
Page 55
1
have to go to court to prove to the government that
2
it has constitutional obligations?
3
that an analysis -- well, it is true that an analysis of
4
what's currently available through Legal Services
5
Society shows clearly that only those categories of
6
legal issues in which the courts of Canada have
7
said they are obliged to provide, they provide,
8
with a few small edges of exceptions.
9
It seems to me
But a robust and responsible constitutional
10
analysis tells us that civil legal aid, legal
11
representation where matters of human dignity
12
and security of the person are at stake must be
13
provided to those who cannot afford it.
14
ignoring this analysis, governments in Canada force
15
us -- those of us who -- who have the mandate to
16
advance equality and the law, to undertake complex
17
and very difficult test case litigation to prove it
18
in court.
19
By
The CBA has tried, BC PIAC has tried, others
20
have tried, and it's simply overwhelming those
21
cases and how to make that work.
22
to prove it?
23
conflicts in the laws, not to force governments to
24
govern according to the Constitution of Canada.
25
giving the power to the court and making equality
Why do we have
The courts are there to resolve
By
Alison Brewin
Page 56
1
seeking organizations largely huge complex test
2
cases, this is the legal aid access to justice
3
issue at large.
4
We also had the cutting of the Court
5
Challenges Program as well so there's no support
6
for this work.
7
Law Foundation, I should say, and all our great
8
donors and supporters.
9
Independence of -- other than the
Another important point or key message I want
10
to share with you is the issue of independence of
11
legal aid providers and the value of grounding
12
poverty law and family law services in the
13
communities that are most vulnerable.
14
LEAF has developed expertise in the difference
15
between what's written in the law and how that
16
actually plays out.
17
the Legal Services Society is independent, but
18
we would argue that that's not actually true in
19
reality.
20
West Coast
The LSS Act does state that
The majority of the board is appointed by the
21
cabinet.
What they can provide is defined very
22
narrowly by the memorandum of understanding.
23
They're very limited in terms of their strict
24
financial limitations about how they can act, and
25
there are rather tense reporting requirements
Alison Brewin
Page 57
1
between the AG's department and LSS so that's not
2
independence in action.
3
The results of the legal aid changes of the
4
past decade include the reality that we've lost the
5
expertise of staff lawyers.
6
of lawyers who can provide poverty law services,
7
we're losing family law lawyers, we're losing the
8
spark of public interest enthusiasm in young
9
lawyers.
10
We've lost the group
Women's safety, freedom and human dignity are
11
at stake.
12
our most vulnerable women horribly as information
13
emerges post-Pickton trial, I should say, because
14
the issue remains.
15
British Columbia?
16
contributing to this huge question by undermining
17
the capacity of those in the legal profession alone
18
who can and are capable of making change.
19
We know the justice system has failed
Do we value all women in
The legal aid system is
What's the answer?
Well, long term, I echo
20
Steven Owen's words yesterday.
We have to go back
21
to the early days.
22
suggested the early 80s.
23
Peter Leask's report to the AG from 1974.
24
available in hard copy at the courthouse library in
25
case you're interested.
We have to go back -- he
I would say going back to
It's
Alison Brewin
Page 58
1
It recommended a mixed model of delivery as
2
the only way to reflect a rights-based system of
3
legal aid that is efficient.
4
West Coast LEAF is recommending the creation of an
5
in-house counsel model.
6
we would refer you to is the West Coast Domestic
7
Workers Association, an organization that for 20
8
years has had an in-house lawyer to provide legal
9
representation and advice to live-in caregivers.
In the short term,
The living example that
10
It's a great organization that works really, really
11
hard.
12
By giving community-based services the
13
capacity to hire in-house counsel, we can ensure
14
their independence, their expertise, their
15
integration with social and other services,
16
language skills necessary to provide the services
17
to the cultural communities that those
18
organizations are designed to serve.
19
provide lawyers with a public interest legal career
20
that many of them crave, and it will in fact save
21
money.
22
It can
Which brings me to my final subject area,
23
which is money.
How do we pay for this?
There was
24
much discussion yesterday about the social services
25
tax, and now, of course, we have the HST which we
Alison Brewin
Page 59
1
don't necessarily want to get into right now.
But
2
I would argue that a dedicated stream from the HST
3
on legal services must be instituted.
4
payments from the federal government used to be
5
earmarked, some of it for family and poverty law
6
services, and that transfer is a tool -- or was a
7
tool because it doesn't exist anymore.
8
transfer does but not the earmarking.
9
for federal direction on treaty obligations.
Transfer
I mean the
Is a tool
A
10
mixed model of financing, middle income British
11
Columbians contributing something, a community
12
service could institute independently and on their
13
own as they can.
14
There are plenty of models.
We're about to publish an update to Legal Aid
15
Denied that I think will be titled, because we're
16
not quite finished yet, but "Rights-Based Legal
17
Aid, Fixing BC's Broken System."
18
published by the Centre For Policy Alternatives on
19
November 9th and we will be submitting the final
20
draft of it to the commission.
21
It'll be
But I might as well just read from it because
22
it's most relevant.
The one point I think you'll
23
be interested in is the cost of unrepresented
24
litigants in supreme court.
25
data from the BC Supreme Court that they shared
There's unpublished
Alison Brewin
1
Page 60
with us that:
2
"Where one or both parties are
3
unrepresented in civil law matters,
4
17 percent go to full trial compared to
5
only 8 percent where both parties are
6
represented.
7
of cases where one or more party is
8
unrepresented settle before going to
9
trial --"
10
Similarly, only 17 percent
These are civil trials.
11
"-- compared to 35 percent of cases when
12
both parties are represented."
13
So that's one point right there where we could
14
save some money.
A second reference I would like
15
to encourage the commission to review, and someone
16
else has probably suggested this, is the great
17
study in Texas.
18
Services on Economic Activity in Texas" by a group
19
called the Perryman Group.
20
what we already wrote about it because I think it's
21
the best way to say it.
It's entitled "Impact of Legal Aid
And I'm going to read
22
"A study on legal aid in Texas showed that
23
investment in legal aid services led to
24
economic growth in the community by
25
increasing jobs, reducing work days missed
Alison Brewin
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1
due to legal problems, creating more stable
2
housing, resolving debt issues and
3
stimulating business activity.
4
for every direct dollar expended in the
5
state for indigent civil legal services,
6
legal services for low-income people --"
7
In fact,
Or poverty law, as we call it here.
8
" -- the overall annual gains to the
9
economy are found to be $7.42 in total
10
spending, $3.56 in output gross product and
11
$2.20 in personal income.
12
legal aid spending, therefore, have a
13
negative impact on spending and creates an
14
economic burden on the community."
15
Reductions in
These findings can be logically extended to
16
legal aid services in British Columbia.
That data
17
has not been studied and collected here in Canada
18
anywhere.
19
"An investment in legal aid is an
20
investment in our communities and legal aid
21
cuts are a shortsighted hazard to our
22
health, our relationships, our social
23
fabric and our economy."
24
25
And in conclusion -- I think I've run out of
time.
Sorry.
Our recommendations overall are:
Go
Alison Brewin
Page 62
1
back to the drawing board.
Continue to administer
2
the tariff model through LSS, as it is, but address
3
the issue of organizational independence and
4
financial independence.
5
with organizational and financial capacity to hire
6
in-house counsel.
7
the CBA to establish loan or remission programs
8
for public interest and in-house counsel lawyers
9
working in those community groups.
Provide community services
Work with the Law Society and
Increase
10
overall funding for legal aid representation and
11
advice.
12
enhance the international constitutional
13
obligations of the state and Canada to provide
14
meaningful access to justice in British Columbia.
15
That's kind of a given.
And accept and
We will be giving a number of written reports
16
to the commission, but one I wanted to point out,
17
if it hasn't already come to your attention, is
18
Andrea Vollans' recently published article called
19
"Court-Related Abuse and Harassment, Leaving an
20
Abuser Can Be Harder Than Staying."
21
the YWCA as a legal advocate, and her report and
22
other reports they have produced are available on
23
the website.
24
you to seek them out; otherwise, you will get all
25
of our footnotes in our paper when we submit it.
She works with
They do great work, so I encourage
Sarah Khan
1
2
Page 63
So thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Thank you.
3
Unfortunately, Mary Martin has an urgent
4
matter she has to attend to and can't stay with us
5
for the rest of the day.
6
7
That's too bad.
Sarah Khan.
MS. KHAN:
Thank you, Commissioner Doust and panel
8
members.
My name is Sarah Khan.
I'm a staff
9
lawyer with the BC Public Interest Advocacy Centre
10
in Vancouver.
11
firm.
12
support staff and an articled student, and we work
13
in two main areas of law.
14
justice.
15
organizations across BC on a whole range of
16
systemic social justice issues and law reform
17
initiatives.
18
regulation, so we represent a coalition of seniors,
19
tenants and poverty and consumer organizations
20
before the BC Utilities Commission and the CRTC
21
seeking affordable rates and higher service quality
22
for low-income residential ratepayers in
23
proceedings involving utilities such as BC Hydro,
24
Terasen Gas and FortisBC.
25
We're a small not-for-profit law
And we have four lawyers and a couple of
The first is social
So we represent individuals and
We also work in the area of utilities
In conducting our social justice litigation
Sarah Khan
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1
and law reform work, which that's the area that
2
I spend most of my time working in, we work closely
3
with clients and lawyers and lay advocates in
4
communities all across the province.
5
the great pleasure of working with many of the
6
organizations and people who have presented before
7
you already through this commission.
I have had
8
Recently we've been involved, just to give you
9
some examples, in litigation involving all kinds of
10
social justice issues including income assistance,
11
so access to income assistance and disability
12
benefits, farm worker's rights, employment
13
standards, access to legal aid, residential tenancy
14
issues, human rights issues, child protection and
15
debtor assistance.
16
When I started at PIAC ten years ago, there
17
was a broad network of poverty law legal aid
18
clinics, including First Nations legal clinics,
19
that provided legal representation services to
20
thousands and thousands of British Columbians every
21
year.
22
don't even have Law Line anymore, which, as one of
23
the speakers has mentioned, did in fact -- or --
24
you know, it was actually quite useful to have
25
Law Line as a hub -- a contact hub and -- for the
We obviously have none of this now.
We
Sarah Khan
1
Page 65
province.
2
Legal representation for low-income people
3
works.
We have had -- we have worked on hundreds
4
and hundreds of cases -- or represented hundreds
5
and hundreds of people since I've been at PIAC,
6
and our success rate is in the 95 percent range,
7
probably higher.
8
give you some examples.
9
least a million dollars of alleged welfare fraud
We've had -- you know, just to
We've had at least -- at
10
overpayment set aside.
11
thousands of dollars of alleged EI fraud
12
overpayment set aside.
13
people to show that banks were overcollecting from
14
them.
15
changed in the areas of income assistance, EI,
16
child protection and other areas.
17
this working very closely with many of the groups
18
who have presented to you already.
19
constant oversight -- unless there's constant
20
oversight through lawyers and advocates of these
21
policy changes and legal changes, things revert
22
back inevitably.
23
We've had hundreds of
We've worked with many
We've had countless laws and policies
And we've done
But without
We turn people away all the time.
We work
24
many more hours than we are paid -- paid for as the
25
need is overwhelming.
Kamaljit Lehal earlier was
Sarah Khan
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1
talking about sponsorship debt cases, and I just
2
recently told a woman who I thought had a very good
3
chance of success in a welfare sponsorship debt
4
case that I just didn't have the capacity to
5
assist, and I think that we -- there was a really
6
strong chance that she'd be successful.
7
get her representation through other organizations
8
but was unsuccessful.
9
places.
I tried to
I tried about five different
I gave her a few more places that she
10
could try on her own, but we are -- we are actually
11
in the process of -- we've lost a bunch of funding
12
through the Law Foundation and through -- the
13
provincial government has deregulated a lot of
14
BC Hydro proceedings, and so we are losing out on
15
a lot of cost awards through that process.
16
I should note that we do get core funding from the
17
Law Foundation, for which we're very grateful.
18
Our legal system is complicated.
But
I put a lot
19
of effort into trying to figure out how various
20
legal systems work at legal systems and processes.
21
People are struggling to get by financially, have
22
low-wage jobs or are on income assistance, have
23
cognitive issues and English as a secondary
24
language are unable to navigate through the systems
25
on their own.
Sarah Khan
1
Page 67
Just to give you another recent example.
I've
2
been trying to get a young person on income
3
assistance in the last few weeks and I can't tell
4
you the amount of trouble it's been, the amount of
5
time that me and a lay advocate have spent trying
6
to get this person onto income assistance.
7
no money.
8
it's just been ...
9
me.
10
He doesn't even have $5.
He has
And -- and
It's been really disturbing to
You know, this person has -- doesn't speak
11
English -- or speaks very little English, is
12
racialized, has no money, and it's taking far too
13
long for such a simple thing to -- seemingly simple
14
thing to happen.
15
who you're hearing from are doing a valiant job.
16
There's just not a -- there's just -- there's more
17
demand than can be met.
18
Lay advocates from all the groups
So what we see is that all kinds of social
19
justice and human rights violations are happening
20
every day because we are not funding legal aid
21
adequately.
22
law, we're really not funding it at all.
23
when welfare eligibility rules and all kinds of
24
other laws affecting low-income people were
25
dismantled in 2001 and 2002, it didn't seem like
Or in the case of poverty and poverty
When --
Sarah Khan
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1
any coincidence to me that the government at
2
the very same time got rid of the lawyers and
3
paralegals who provided legal advice and
4
representation to them.
5
So we are firmly committed to the funding of
6
poverty and family law related legal advice and
7
representation services both by lawyers and
8
paralegals.
9
supportive of criminal and immigration and refugee
10
services; we're just focussing on -- on the civil
11
family and poverty side of things.
12
That's not to say that we are also not
We have -- as Alison Brewin mentioned, we have
13
filed applications in the BC Supreme Court for
14
state-funded counsel for a number of our clients
15
in various court applications involving income
16
assistance overpayments and family -- in a family
17
law case.
18
applications in the income assistance cases, the
19
provincial government simply withdrew its
20
statements of claim against our client thereby
21
cancelling the debt for the most part.
22
When we filed the state funding
Recently in a family case we filed -- we filed
23
a -- a statement of claim -- this was a little
24
under a year ago.
25
state-funded counsel for a woman who had serious
A statement of claim seeking
Sarah Khan
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1
family law issues and had been cut off of legal aid
2
funding during the cuts of -- during the summer of
3
2009.
4
of claim.
5
preparation because there were all kinds of interim
6
or prefiling applications that we had to make in
7
the family case.
8
into preparing this statement of claim.
9
So we -- in the -- so we filed the statement
It took -- it required months of
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
We put a huge amount of effort
Excuse me.
Was this for the
10
substantive issues in family law that the woman was
11
dealing with, or was this in an effort to provoke
12
the court to make some kind of order to provide her
13
with counsel?
14
15
MS. KHAN:
To provoke the court to make an order for
counsel.
16
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
17
MS. KHAN:
Thank you.
So in the context of that case we applied for
18
interim funding pending the hearing of the main
19
constitutional case for the -- for state funding.
20
So interim funding so that she could have a lawyer
21
to represent her in her family trial.
22
huge amount of effort into that application as
23
well.
24
Province of BC and LSS were named as defendants.
25
We relied on extensive pro bono assistance from
We put a
Her Majesty the Queen in Right of the
Sarah Khan
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1
lawyers like Gwen Brodsky and Melina Buckley,
2
without whom we never would have been able to even
3
think about bringing such a case.
4
closely with groups like West Coast LEAF and others
5
to put together the evidence -- just the evidence
6
that we'd need on the interim funding application.
We also worked
7
The court -- so the application was heard
8
last, I guess, January and February -- or this
9
January and February.
The court did -- over about
10
a week.
11
have been six days.
12
court -- that was just the interim application.
13
The court did find in the interim application that
14
our case raised a serious issue to be tried and
15
that the lack of counsel would cause irreparable
16
harm but found that on balance the court declined
17
to grant interim funding but invited us to come
18
forward with the main constitutional case.
19
It might have been -- actually, it might
I can't recall exactly.
The
Given our organization's funding issues
20
recently, we're now -- we're now in a position
21
where we simply don't have the staff in order to
22
continue with the case.
23
currently doing is we're in the process of trying
24
to come up with some resources to continue.
25
So what we're -- we're
So the legal representation services that we
Sarah Khan
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1
at PIAC are going to be able to provide in the --
2
on a going-forward basis is going to be quite --
3
quite a bit -- quite reduced from even what we were
4
able to provide this time last year.
5
So it's -- it's -- I guess I'm raising this to
6
make the point that it's a tremendous amount of
7
effort even to just -- to bring forward applications
8
for state funding based on -- based on the Charter.
9
We also really support pro bono services.
10
I personally feel that lawyers contribute an
11
amazing amount -- amount of time for social justice
12
work and appreciate their efforts greatly, but
13
I think we feel that low-income people have a right
14
to state-funded counsel, and that people in BC
15
should not have to solely rely on the charitable
16
contributions of lawyers.
17
low-income people, and particularly racialized
18
people, are being disproportionately affected by
19
the lack of legal aid services and therefore are
20
being denied access to justice.
21
difficult to deal with.
22
We believe that
And this is very
I would reiterate the comments that Alison
23
Brewin has made on delivery models.
I think that
24
I agree with her that the model -- the West Coast
25
Domestic Workers model is a very good one.
It's
Susan Henry
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1
a -- one that works very well.
2
say that the funding models that Alison has set
3
forward -- has put forward are also things that we
4
would support.
5
And I would also
We do hope to put forward a more formal
6
written submission to you by the end -- by the
7
deadline, and thank you very much.
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
MS. HENRY:
Hello.
Thank you.
Susan Henry.
My name is Susan Henry, and I am
10
a full-time community advocate at First United
11
Church Mission in Vancouver's downtown east side.
12
We are located one block east of Main and Hastings,
13
so we're right in the middle of it, in what's
14
described as Canada's poorest postal code.
15
I've been an advocate on staff there for
16
13 years, since June 1997, so I've had a long time
17
to see the kind of demise and problems that have
18
happened within the legal aid system.
19
to my work as a frontline advocate, I also was
20
awarded a four-month visitorship at the UBC Faculty
21
of Law in the fall of 2008.
22
social justice community scholar doing research on
23
debt and low-income people in BC, and so some of
24
the remarks here follow from my experience there.
25
I should tell you at this point that my main
In addition
I was there as the
Susan Henry
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1
focus here is very specific and narrow.
I'm here
2
to talk about -- primarily about the self-help
3
model as related to legal aid.
4
depending very heavily on the self-help model.
5
I was tempted to call this talk a self-help model
6
in legal aid, boon or boondoggle because I have
7
very strong feelings about it.
Legal aid is
And
8
But just to give you a bit more background.
9
The First United Church has been in the downtown
10
east side for 125 years, so we have a lot of
11
knowledge of the low-income area.
12
modern style advocacy probably since the 1980s.
13
Our advocacy service has -- now has five full-time
14
advocates, so that's quite new.
15
five days a week, Monday to Friday, three mornings,
16
two afternoons and one evening.
17
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
We've been doing
We do advocacy
We --
If I could just interrupt you for one
18
minute.
19
the people here and on the panel, what is an
20
advocate?
21
do you have and what do you do?
22
MS. HENRY:
If you could describe for the benefit of
What do you -- you know, what authority
I talk a little bit about the type of things
23
we do, the type of law.
We do primarily
24
administrative-type law, so things related to
25
welfare, residential tenancy.
I've done an
Susan Henry
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1
Old Age Pension appeal.
2
administrative law.
3
4
5
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
The kind of law that is
That's the kind of law you
administer, but what do you do?
MS. HENRY:
Well, everything.
You know, when we're open,
6
people come to the window with issues and problems,
7
we sign them up and we try and solve it for them.
8
9
10
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
So you provide advice to these people
in connection with their problems?
MS. HENRY:
And representation in administrative
11
law areas.
12
reconsideration requests for welfare, we have
13
people who do -- go to EI -- the EI tribunals.
14
15
16
17
So we will help people write
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
representative of theirs?
MS. HENRY:
I personally haven't done EI, but we do have
advocates who do EI.
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
19
MS. HENRY:
20
21
Do you attend the tribunal as a
Yes.
Advocates do go to tribunals?
This is new.
You see, this never used
to have to happen.
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
This is what I'm trying to get,
22
is I want to know what it is you do.
And do you
23
provide assistance to people, for example, in terms
24
of filling out the forms necessary to obtain
25
benefits from various of the social agencies?
Susan Henry
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1
MS. HENRY:
Yes.
2
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
So your doors are open, people
3
come in, you provide assistance for applications,
4
you give them advice, and if necessary you
5
sometimes attend at administrative tribunals on
6
their behalf?
7
MS. HENRY:
We represent them -- we do written -- a lot of
8
written submissions for people at reconsideration
9
stages, at the written stages of certain things.
10
11
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Does that pretty much cover the gamut
of what you do?
12
MS. HENRY:
Yes.
Except --
13
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
14
MS. HENRY:
Yes?
-- since things like the Law Line have gone --
15
and Allan Parker was referring to the 15,000 people
16
who called Law Line -- we now have people showing
17
up wanting to know things we ordinarily never dealt
18
with.
19
know, they come to us looking for legal help as
20
well.
21
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
22
You know, debt issues and -- just ...
These are people who you -- your
point is that you cannot provide service?
23
MS. HENRY:
24
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
25
You
Yes.
So we know what you do do, and there
are situations where you cannot do.
Susan Henry
1
MS. HENRY:
Page 76
And we're getting a lot of immigration things,
2
things that we really can't help or we're filling
3
out forms.
4
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
5
MS. HENRY:
Do you do them?
We try and help as much as we can.
We also
6
have people who have forms and I'm thinking, I've
7
never seen this form before.
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
MS. HENRY:
Okay, let's just --
But you try.
We've been doing humanitarian and
10
compassionate appeals for people under immigration,
11
so it's a real patchwork kind of desperation thing.
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
MS. HENRY:
14
Thank you.
That's helpful.
So that gives you a sense.
Actually, that's
some of what I was going to say here.
15
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
16
MS. HENRY:
Okay.
The other thing is we actually -- our service
17
isn't restricted.
18
might be restricted geographically or they might
19
serve only people with disabilities, only people
20
with mental health issues.
21
we have this very, very broad -- we have people
22
from Squamish, we have people from White Rock,
23
Langley.
24
25
Many of the advocacy groups
We serve everybody.
So
So it's very broad.
As a result, we see, like, 5,000 in-person
contacts a year.
That's not 5,000 individuals, but
Susan Henry
1
Page 77
it's probably several thousand people a year.
2
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
3
MS. HENRY:
And how are you funded?
Well, this is sort of new.
We just changed.
4
We used to have less advocates and we were funded
5
all through the United Church.
6
acquired three full-time Law Foundation-funded
7
advocates.
8
first time now we actually have people who have law
9
training, we have people who have law degrees,
We recently
Which is interesting, because for the
10
which we didn't have until three months ago.
11
they aren't lawyers in the sense that they haven't
12
completed everything that they need to be a lawyer,
13
but they do have a law degree.
14
thing.
15
because they have some knowledge now so more people
16
will want to come.
17
18
19
So
So that's a new
Which, of course, will open up even more
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
So these are -- what?
They're
graduates of law school but they haven't articled?
MS. HENRY:
But they haven't done everything they need to
20
do to -- I'm not -- I actually haven't had any law
21
training at all so I couldn't tell you where
22
they're at or anything, you know.
23
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
24
MS. HENRY:
25
Okay.
So ...
Thank you.
And I was going to say it's clear that what
we do falls under poverty law, but we don't do
Susan Henry
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1
criminal or family law at all, although we
2
sometimes help in family -- difficult situations.
3
But one of the things, of course, that happens is
4
if you don't deal with poverty law issues, you end
5
up with criminal and/or family law issues.
6
poverty law is starved of assistance, it falls on
7
these other things.
8
9
So when
So I'm having to rearrange this because
I explained some of these things.
You've heard,
10
of course, that the demise of legal aid has had a
11
dramatic, negative impact on front-line advocates
12
in BC.
13
province are all drowning in this work that we
14
can't do.
15
I'm sure many advocates throughout the
In addition to all this, we -- so most of the
16
people I see are low-income people.
In addition to
17
that, our church actually is now a refuge.
18
many years people -- as the welfare system fell
19
apart, people started showing up and sleeping in
20
our church.
21
a hundred people a day sleeping in the church.
22
the city and the province are now funding us as a
23
refuge where people can just go 23 hours a day,
24
seven days a week.
25
homeless people living in our church.
For
And it got so bad we were having like
So we now have 250 to 300
So we're
So
Susan Henry
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1
seeing not only low-income people but often
2
no-income people.
3
So the question is, what does -- well, a lot
4
of -- let me go back here.
So our tenants --
5
tenants.
6
but they almost always have low literacy.
7
that's where this plays out.
8
literacy mean?
9
UBC.
Our clients are low income and no-come,
And
What does low
I did a lot of work on this up at
In the mid to late 1990s, the International
10
Adult Literacy Survey, it's called the IAL Survey,
11
studied literacy in nine countries -- Canada
12
France, Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, Poland,
13
Sweden and the United States -- and they looked at
14
the definition of literacy as being along a continuum.
15
Not that you could read or can't read, but at five
16
levels.
So here are the five levels.
17
"Level 1 indicates persons with very poor
18
skills where the individual may, for
19
example, be unable to determine the correct
20
amount of medicine to give a child from
21
information printed on the package."
22
So the individual might be able to read parts
23
of it, but they can't pick out the relevant information.
24
"Level 2 respondents can only deal with
25
material that is simple, clearly laid out
Susan Henry
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1
and in which the tasks involved are not too
2
complex.
3
but more hidden than level one.
4
identifies people who can read but test
5
poorly when you ask them questions about
6
information in the text.
7
developed coping skills to manage everyday
8
literacy demands, but their low level of
9
proficiency makes it difficult for them to
It denotes weak level of skill
It
They may have
10
face novel demands such as learning new
11
job skills or doing a new task they haven't
12
done.
13
Level 3 is considered the suitable
14
minimum for coping with the demands
15
of everyday life and work in a complex,
16
advanced society like ours.
17
roughly the skill level required for
18
successful secondary school completion
19
and college entry."
20
It denotes
Then levels 4 and 5 are obviously much higher
21
levels.
22
Mansfield wrote a paper in the Stanford Law &
23
Policy Review in 2002 called "Literacy and
24
Contract."
25
Interestingly, Alan White and Cathy
And it says:
"Contracts and disclosures for mortgage
Susan Henry
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1
loans, automobile leases and other modern
2
transactions like cell phone or a Payday
3
loan --"
4
Which many of our clients get.
5
"-- are accessible to fewer than
6
10 percent of the consumers for whom they
7
are intended."
8
9
So studies that were done in Statistics Canada
show that 22 percent of Canadians aged 16 plus
10
are at level 1 of literacy, and 26 percent are at
11
level 2.
12
Canadian population is not sufficiently literate to
13
function in the modern society.
14
it's a little bit brighter.
15
it's 40 percent, so we're a bit more educated
16
group -- or literature group.
17
So it means that almost half of the
Actually, in BC
It's not 48 percent,
And this situation's, unfortunately, not going
18
to change either.
19
month that showed that the number of people below
20
level 3 will -- will -- the percentage will remain
21
the same, but the numbers will increase because our
22
population will increase.
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
A study was just released last
So it's a major problem.
Can you tie that to the legal
services?
MS. HENRY:
I'm getting to that.
So what does this all
Susan Henry
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1
have to do?
2
quote, cannot read sufficiently what -- the people
3
who cannot read sufficiently well to function in a
4
modern society and who, incidentally, are likely to
5
be low-income people, are frequently the same
6
people that we are now directing to the self-help
7
model of legal aid.
8
brochure you can read, go to the computer and fill
9
out that form.
10
11
Because it's very important who,
So we're saying here, here's a
And so we know as advocates -- we
see people all the time.
It just ...
So part of the issue is we have people who are
12
signing documents; they don't know what they're
13
signing.
14
done Payday loans and all kinds of things and they
15
don't understand their rights, how do they appeal
16
something to welfare.
17
this, and yet there are booklets that tell them how
18
to do it.
19
There are people coming to us who have
They have no idea how to do
So that's a problem right there.
The other thing that's tied to this issue of
20
literacy, though, is the problem of judgment-related
21
disabilities.
22
groups.
23
the population.
24
once heard me say 67.
25
seven percent of the population that has a
This includes, broadly speaking, two
First of all, there is six to seven percent of
Six to seven, not 67.
Somebody
But there's six to
Susan Henry
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1
borderline IQ in the range of 71 to 84.
2
British Columbia that translates to 263,000 to
3
306,000 British Columbians who are functioning at
4
this very low level.
5
have a mental disability; they're treated like you
6
and me.
7
have no idea -- or do this thing and they have no
8
idea.
9
of children, but -- but they're treated as if
10
So in
But they're not deemed to
Here, sign this contract.
And they may
In a way, they're functioning at the level
they're not minors.
11
I had a client, actually, years ago who was
12
probably one of the saddest cases I've ever seen in
13
that.
14
had been sent to me by a medical clinic who had
15
found him.
16
I was interviewing him for this appeal thing.
17
he said, I hate where I live.
18
the hotels on Granville Street, one of the, you
19
know, little hotels.
20
years.
21
somewhere else to live?
22
know how to find somewhere else to live.
23
didn't know how to read ads, he didn't know how to
24
phone somewhere.
25
you find where you are now?
I was doing a disability appeal for him.
He was in his early 60s.
He
And -- so
And
He lived in one of
And he lived there for 35
And I said, well, why don't you find
He said to me, I don't
Like, he
So I said to him, well, how did
He said, my mother
Susan Henry
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1
found it for me.
2
this room for him and he had lived there ever
3
since.
And it was -- we see lots of people like
4
this.
And they are a very invisible group of the
5
population.
6
35 years ago his mother had found
So there's -- there's that group.
There's
7
also the acquired brain injury group.
8
look at acquired brain injury, people who acquire
9
an injury after birth.
10
degenerative disease.
11
those people in BC.
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
MS. HENRY:
And if we
It's not congenital or a
There's about 160,000 of
Acquired what?
Acquired brain injuries.
So someone with
14
fetal alcohol -- for example, who has fetal-alcohol
15
syndrome does not have an acquired brain injury;
16
they're born with it.
So this doesn't even include
17
that group of people.
This is people who have had
18
traumatic brain injury, that kind of thing.
19
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
20
MS. HENRY:
I understand.
So if we look at this, we have 40 percent of
21
the population who can't read sufficiently well to
22
function in modern society and almost half a
23
million British Columbians with judgment-related
24
disabilities.
25
crisscross, but, you know, we have a huge number
Now, I realize these groups may
Susan Henry
Page 85
1
of people who really can't cope -- they're
2
ill-prepared to cope with legal problems, and yet
3
we're saying, here, have a brochure, you know, go
4
to the computer.
5
So -- I don't know my time -- often what they
6
say is we'll put it in plain language.
They'll
7
understand it if we put it in plain language.
8
I have been -- I have been -- two minutes.
9
been corresponding with someone who was very major
But
I've
10
in this -- in Statistics Canada who's done a lot of
11
work on adult literacy, and he talked about the
12
issue of plain language and texts.
He said:
13
"The best of the standard readability
14
indices that plain language work with only
15
explains 15 percent of task difficulty
16
because they assume it is the
17
characteristics of the text that make it
18
difficult.
19
difficulty is largely determined by what
20
the reader is asked to do."
21
Our research proves that
So the point of the fact is you can give them
22
all you want, but if they can't do anything with
23
it, it's useless.
24
with the thing is the self-help model is just not
25
tested.
So one of my great difficulties
We decided it's a good idea, but we really
Susan Henry
1
2
Page 86
don't have anything to prove that it works.
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Well, I think it was a last resort,
3
frankly, from the perspective of funding difficulties,
4
but it's important that we recognize that it is
5
very limited in terms of its applicability.
6
I've heard of that all through the north country
7
and --
8
9
MS. HENRY:
And
It would be very helpful, though, to have it
because the problem is that the province is relying
10
on that kind of thing tremendously.
11
some proof to say to them, wait a minute, it
12
doesn't work.
13
doesn't -- they have shown that that's the same
14
problem we're doing with all these little pamphlets
15
in the health offices, doctor's offices, but it
16
isn't really affecting people's ability to deal
17
with their health.
18
literacy; we've never studied it in law literacy.
19
So ...
20
And if we had
For example, in health literacy it
They've done it in health
I guess I have no time left.
One of the things I just wanted to say in the
21
end, I didn't really have any brilliant solutions
22
to this thing except to say that -- to agree with
23
Alison and what Alison had commented is, you know,
24
about the future of legal aid.
25
that it will come to resemble the past of legal aid
I can only hope
Dan Sudeyko
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1
in BC, a time when people who needed help actually
2
received it.
3
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
4
Well, I think we'll break for lunch now and
5
come back at 1:30.
6
(PROCEEDINGS RECESSED AT 12:06 P.M.)
7
(PROCEEDINGS RECONVENED AT 1:32 P.M.)
8
9
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
please.
10
11
It's my pleasure to have Ms. Hepner with us
this afternoon.
12
13
I think I'd like to get started,
She's a city councillor in Surrey.
Mr. Sudeyko.
MR. SUDEYKO:
Yes.
I'll just begin by providing the --
14
first of all, thank you for the opportunity to
15
present today.
16
Just a little bit of background personally.
17
I am 51.
I was called to the bar in 1988.
I have
18
done legal aid work since that time, initially both
19
family and criminal, with quite a large emphasis on
20
youth work as well as Mental Health Review Board
21
and panel work.
22
when there was qualification for such, I did other
23
work around -- quasi-criminal work such as human
24
rights, some immigration, which still has some
25
coverage, and other civil areas.
And certainly at an earlier time,
Dan Sudeyko
1
Page 88
Certainly the extent of my legal aid work has
2
decreased over time as overhead has increased, and,
3
more particularly, because tariff fees have significantly
4
dropped, although I still do criminal duty counsel
5
and a number of legal aid cases each year.
6
I've also been the ward lawyer for the
7
North Shore for over 20 years.
That means I'm
8
contractually retained to represent youths who are
9
in care of the government, primarily in Youth
10
Criminal Justice Act matters or sometimes Criminal
11
Code matters as well.
12
doing that for over 20 years.
And, as I say, I've been
13
Just over the last three years or so I've also
14
been representing the director, that's of Children,
15
Family and Community Services Act, that is on court
16
circuits in Bella Coola and Bella Bella, and that's
17
child protection work.
18
government, essentially, when children are at risk
19
and in need of protection.
20
communities.
21
So I represent the
So I travel to those
I also perform pro bono work for Access Pro
22
Bono on a regular basis in addition to what I would
23
say is the common practice of doing pro bono work
24
in our courts if you are there at all performing
25
legal aid work.
Dan Sudeyko
1
Page 89
More particularly, and I suppose the reason
2
why I'm here, is I have been since 19 -- sorry,
3
since 2002 the agent for the Legal Services Society
4
for the North Shore/Sunshine Coast/Sqaumish-
5
Whistler-Pemberton areas.
6
what I do is my office assists by providing the
7
administration to allow for applications by people
8
seeking legal aid, determining eligibility, and
9
then referring legal aid to counsel for those
And in that regard
10
matters that remain covered, family, criminal, and
11
certainly on the North Shore only the occasional
12
immigration matter.
13
criminal duty counsel as well, and of course we
14
liaison with community agencies in that regard.
15
Our primary office is located at the North
We assign both family and
16
Vancouver Courthouse.
17
office also located, which is essentially my
18
office, where applications can be received or phone
19
calls made when the other office is closed.
20
courthouse office is open approximately 21 hours
21
per week.
22
that is spent by my assistant with respect to
23
community liaison and administration.
24
25
And we have a secondary
Our
And there's an additional three hours
In addition to those two office locations are
applications -- which are primarily First Nations
Dan Sudeyko
Page 90
1
people in the Pemberton Courthouse, are taken by
2
the courtworker, and that's essentially done
3
gratuitously to assist her community.
4
And so in our role, really, as the LSS agent
5
we have assisted youths, families, adults
6
throughout this rather large community, as I say,
7
all the way up to Pemberton in almost any matter
8
with respect to family and criminal and, as I say,
9
occasionally some immigration work.
10
When I started as a young and relatively
11
inexperienced lawyer I did legal aid work, and it
12
was -- it was broad in terms of what I could do and
13
what was available.
14
initially, which I don't do now, involved in
15
custody and access and support for children and
16
spouses as well all the way to child protection
17
matters.
18
I continue to do that, and assisted everyone from
19
youths under the Young Offenders Act, as it was
20
then, to serious adult charges.
21
immigration, I did some poverty law and I did
22
quasi-criminal matters.
23
that, I had an opportunity to, I guess, cut my
24
teeth.
25
that's the purpose in having legal aid funded, but
I did many family issues
I did criminal matters, and, as I say,
I did some
So in that -- in regard to
And I don't come to this commission to say
Dan Sudeyko
1
2
Page 91
it did give me that opportunity.
I took an immigration case to the Federal
3
Court of Appeal, I appealed a youth matter to the
4
BC Court of Appeal, I took a human rights matter on
5
appeal to the supreme court, I did a GAIN appeal
6
matter.
7
assistance who was challenging a cut in her -- in
8
her benefits.
9
became infamous.
That was a person who was receiving income
And I did matters that sometimes
I did a sexual assault case
10
involving a gentleman who -- in which the decision
11
became well-known for the quote, sometimes no will
12
mean maybe or sometimes no means maybe.
13
became infamous because of the judge's comments
14
that really had little to do with the decision in
15
the end and found that he was certainly not guilty
16
and, I would -- I would submit, in fact, was quite
17
wrongfully accused.
18
basis and he was, in my view, properly acquitted.
19
I've been through a time when Legal Services
And it
And I did that on a legal aid
20
included such a thing as community-based offices
21
where they had staff lawyers, where lawyers would
22
do such things as civil law and they do poverty law
23
and they would take on probably the most difficult
24
clients of all.
25
Now I say this not because that's necessarily
Dan Sudeyko
Page 92
1
the perfect system, but I say it because there's
2
been many ups and downs with respect to the funding
3
of legal aid and what's been available for people
4
to access.
5
people in low-income circumstances.
6
And, of course, we're talking about
And it's been up and down.
It's been strong
7
in good periods and weak in lean periods.
And
8
I think, as counsel, we all accept that to a
9
certain extent.
However, it's a question, I would
10
submit, of what even in the lean times should we as
11
a society say is the bare minimum that should be
12
required and should be provided to people?
13
it's a question, in my submission, of justice and
14
of a sense of equality, some equality in the access
15
to justice.
16
And
Some people would say even when you have
17
a lawyer who's funded by legal aid and he's faced
18
with a lawyer on the other side who's privately
19
retained that that's not very equal.
20
I probably agree with that.
21
tell you that when people ask me sometimes, well,
22
what's the difference between if I get legal aid
23
and you represent me and I manage to somehow come
24
up with the money?
25
frankly, I'll always work just as hard for you
And
I'd be very frank to
And I say to them, quite
Dan Sudeyko
Page 93
1
whether you're legal aid or you privately retain
2
me.
3
overhead I have to meet; therefore, I can only set
4
aside X time for my legal aid files.
5
what I do, I set aside X time for those files and
6
I work hard during X time.
7
retained, I take the time that it requires and
8
I charge you accordingly on the time that it does
9
require.
10
11
12
13
I just know that I have a certain amount of
So that's
But if I'm privately
So it's not very equal, but is it closer
to being equal?
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Yes, at least it's something.
It's not always equal even if you
hire two different paid lawyers, is it.
MR. SUDEYKO:
It isn't, that's correct.
But at least
14
there's a sense of equality and there's an
15
opportunity of justice there if you are represented
16
by counsel.
17
submission it's very unequal.
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
19
MR. SUDEYKO:
Yes.
If you don't have a lawyer, then in my
That's a gross disparity.
So where are we now, I guess, is the
20
next question.
And it's my experience that we're
21
down to the leanest of times.
22
Legal Services Society, its administration is lean
23
indeed because they've let go of a great number
24
of people and they, of course, have sought the
25
assistance of people like myself to be an agent to
I think that the
Dan Sudeyko
Page 94
1
essentially help with the administration of legal
2
services.
3
which we are not serving the clientele that we are
4
expected to serve.
5
And, you know, we are at a situation in
I'm just going to pause here before I get to
6
that.
And I know that there may be other speakers
7
who will speak about the issue of lawyers
8
specifically as opposed to the clients, and I'm
9
going to talk about the clients primarily.
But I'm
10
going to pause for a moment to say that what I have
11
seen is it's gone from a profession in which the
12
lawyers who were committed to providing these
13
services to those most in need, and sometimes with
14
extremely unpopular causes, and to do so for the
15
lowest in compensation, have now -- have always had
16
the opportunity -- opportunity to do it with some
17
degree of dignity, and that seems to be lost now.
18
And I say that because simply on what is provided
19
to lawyers now cannot service the clients
20
appropriately and they -- they themselves, then,
21
lose their dignity in doing so.
22
I would actually submit that my experience, as
23
I say, when I talk about what I had the opportunity
24
to do as a young lawyer is not available to young
25
lawyers today because we aren't servicing enough
Dan Sudeyko
Page 95
1
people and there simply is not the work available.
2
So the lawyers now that are doing legal aid are in
3
fact very senior, very experienced, and have the
4
ability, in fact, to be efficient, as efficient as
5
you can possibly be.
6
they can't properly serve their clients on what the
7
remuneration is and the time that can be set aside
8
for the files that they have.
9
And even they know that
And most of them are doing it -- I was
10
explaining to somebody outside how I came to be
11
an agent.
12
the only lawyers on the North Shore doing legal aid
13
work that had an office.
14
a cell phone.
15
to near nothing and still, again, very difficult to
16
properly serve their clients, partly because
17
they've had to reduce their overhead as well.
18
somewhat circular.
19
can't meet people at their offices, they can't seek
20
the assistance of a legal assistant or have an
21
associate or whatever that could assist with these
22
files.
23
just about the situation involving lawyers.
24
25
I think it was by default.
I was one of
Most of them operate from
So they've reduced their overhead
They don't have offices.
It's
They
So I pause, as I say, to talk a little bit
But I turn now to -- as I say, to indicate
that in the current times, it's -- we're without
Dan Sudeyko
Page 96
1
doubt at the leanest time with respect to
2
full-service legal aid.
3
that is that actually representing the client from
4
start to finish and entering into a solicitor/client
5
relationship and seeing through their issues
6
sometimes to a full hearing and sometimes
7
certainly, in any event, to conclusion, and that
8
clearly is the case now.
9
And what I mean by saying
And statistically I had a look at what we
10
have done as far as service to people on the
11
North Shore, and we had some significant cuts
12
made in fiscal year 2009, so March, April 2009, in
13
which -- and I'm sure this commission has heard
14
they eliminated a whole category of offences that
15
now don't get legal aid.
16
you -- whether the Crown is seeking jail and that
17
you otherwise would qualify because of your
18
financial circumstances, you no longer do.
19
It doesn't matter whether
And so that, on the criminal end of things,
20
has reduced things significantly.
And on the
21
family end, it's just as bad.
22
examples of where I say people are not, tragically,
23
being served and society's not being served.
24
statistically, if I can just indicate this.
25
during the last full fiscal year, 2008, 2009, there
And I'll get to some
But
Back
Dan Sudeyko
Page 97
1
was 937 applications and 712 referrals.
2
means people who actually had lawyers assigned to
3
them.
4
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
5
MR. SUDEYKO:
Yes.
Referrals
Could I have the numbers again?
937 applications, 712 referrals.
6
2009, 2010 it reduced to 838 applications, 627
7
referrals.
8
about a 12 percent reduction in referrals.
9
looking at referrals only.
10
In
And my, again, basic math says that's
And then I looked at this year.
I'm
I've got
11
the first six months of this fiscal year, and the
12
number of applications, if you annualized it from
13
the first six months, will be 758 applications and
14
only 552 referrals.
15
the North Shore because that's my area.
16
So, again, I'm just looking at
That will be from the 2008, 2009 year --
17
again, I'm going back to when this particular set
18
of cuts occurred -- is a 23 percent reduction.
19
that's almost one in four people who previously
20
was getting legal aid are now not getting legal
21
aid.
22
regard.
23
So
So there's a significant reduction in that
Now, legal aid isn't just about full service
24
to a solicitor/client relationship; it's also about
25
legal advice and education.
And I would submit, in
Dan Sudeyko
Page 98
1
fact, that that's never been better.
2
both Legal Services and many, many other agencies
3
provide outstanding legal advice, legal education.
4
And I think the internet's been a big factor in
5
that regard.
6
seek and take advantage of through that system.
7
Sometimes the clients we deal with don't have
8
that sophistication or that -- that ability, but
9
nonetheless I would submit that those things are
10
11
I think that
There are many services that you can
actually much better than they've ever been.
I would also submit that the duty counsel,
12
which is, of course, giving basic advice and also
13
assisting people right in court, whether it's for
14
such things as bail hearings, guilty pleas, and
15
even occasionally a trial, that is an outstanding
16
service that is operated through Legal Services
17
that legal aid provides.
18
outstanding and can be shown to be very effective,
19
but the intimate, complete representation of a
20
client that is required in some circumstances just
21
doesn't occur on the level that it has in the past,
22
on the level that it needs to in the future.
23
An example.
Again, I think that's
Child support.
So a husband
24
and wife split up, they've got perhaps a couple
25
of kids.
The wife, who has few skills, she was
Dan Sudeyko
Page 99
1
perhaps primarily a stay-at-home mom, might have
2
a part-time job.
3
to pay child support.
4
split-up and he's not offering anything.
5
doesn't get a lawyer.
6
her way through the system to try and represent
7
herself in a system that is complicated to try to
8
get support for her children.
9
that doesn't happen, and it often doesn't happen,
They split up and he's not going
He's angry about the
She
She's got to try and find
So, ultimately, if
10
the children suffer.
11
Maybe the mother gets -- now is in a situation of
12
child protection possibly.
Sometimes it even
13
becomes a criminal matter.
In the end, society's
14
not served.
15
The children don't eat.
Similarly, a couple splits up and he or she,
16
husband or wife, takes off with the kids, won't let
17
the other spouse see the children.
18
financial circumstances of the Legal Services
19
Society says that, you know, until that's happened
20
for three months, we can't give you a lawyer.
21
three months you don't see your kids because you
22
don't have the wherewithal to be able to get
23
yourself to court.
24
a travesty.
25
Right now, the
So
I mean, it's, in my submission,
And in the criminal context, then -- and
Dan Sudeyko
Page 100
1
I know the general public probably isn't very
2
sympathetic to people getting assistance for
3
criminal work.
4
But leaving that aside, if I just look at that
5
category that Legal Services has now had to cut,
6
that level one.
7
of the probation orders, failure to appears,
8
driving while prohibited.
9
are they covered, even though otherwise they would
Some of those people aren't guilty.
So that's the people -- breaches
So, as I said, no longer
10
be, financially and the Crown is seeking jail.
11
that's often the case.
12
And
So, you know, we have a case where the father
13
of, again, children, he might even work as a
14
courier.
15
always on the road, and sometimes you're in a hurry
16
to get to the next delivery to keep your job so
17
over time you might accumulate a point here or
18
there.
19
says he's going to be prohibited from driving.
20
if he's not driving, he's not working.
21
a mistake, he does something wrong.
22
drives and he gets caught, and it's driving while
23
prohibited and typically the Crown would be looking
24
for jail.
25
doesn't know what he's facing.
And he is working as a courier, you're
And, ultimately, then the superintendent
But
So he makes
He goes and
That person doesn't get counsel, he
He knows he drove
Dan Sudeyko
Page 101
1
while he was prohibited, he's basically guilty.
2
Sometimes he sets a date in court not knowing what
3
he's doing.
4
takes up court time, has no defence to offer, is
5
convicted and goes to jail.
6
and pleads guilty and goes to jail.
7
He goes all the way to the trial date,
Sometimes he shows up
Some people would say, I guess that's what he
8
deserves.
But in fact what could happen if he had
9
counsel, counsel would look at his situation, look
10
at his children's situation, get together some
11
material, present it to a fair-thinking Crown
12
prosecutor who would say, well, you know what, if
13
we send this guy to jail, his children are going to
14
suffer, his family's going to suffer, maybe there's
15
another way to do this.
16
punishment, but maybe he doesn't go to jail.
17
maybe we can avoid another driving prohibition and
18
he can get back to work driving.
Maybe we can still have a
And
19
That's what a good defence counsel does.
20
that is a benefit not just to that person, but it's
21
a benefit to our society and to our system.
22
I think that the courts now are filled with people
23
who are unrepresented, they're taking up court
24
time.
25
certainly in North Vancouver where we've
There's further and further delays,
And
And
Dan Sudeyko
Page 102
1
had -- typically had much delay.
2
more and more delays, and that's partly because
3
people are unrepresented.
4
There's getting
Similarly for breaches of probation.
And
5
I would argue that these are really in some ways --
6
and I guess that's why they're level 1, they're
7
sort of nuisance offences.
8
probation order, in most cases, is a victimless
9
crime.
A breach of your own
You're probably the victim if you're the
10
accused.
And we know why the terms are there,
11
they're to avoid further criminal activity, for
12
sure.
13
judge imposes, you know, a no-drinking condition.
14
It makes good sense.
The judges are trying to
15
assist people, too.
But if he breaches it, you
16
know, he's likely to be facing jail from the
17
prosecutor.
18
explain the situation, that maybe that's not either
19
to his advantage but certainly to, perhaps, his
20
family's or society's, can argue that he shouldn't
21
go to jail and there's another way to deal with it.
22
So, again, those are a couple of examples in a
23
criminal context where even with just simple guilty
24
pleas we're talking about that assistance is
25
required.
So the guy's got a drinking problem.
The
And without counsel who can again
It's no longer covered.
And then, well,
Dan Sudeyko
Page 103
1
who suffers?
Well, a large proportion of those in
2
this situation are in fact Aboriginal.
3
I don't have any statistics to give you in that
4
regard -- I think they're probably attainable --
5
but there's no doubt that's a large proportion of
6
the people who breach their probations.
7
limitations and they make mistakes.
They don't
8
report to their probation officers.
Sometimes they
9
drink when they're not supposed to.
All of those
Now,
They have
10
are the people who, in the end, are stuck without
11
lawyers and the least able to represent themselves
12
in the system.
13
14
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Is that your experience in your
bailiwick?
15
MR. SUDEYKO:
It is.
16
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
17
MR. SUDEYKO:
Thank you.
I know sometimes your impression of the
18
North Shore -- well, we have quite a large reserve
19
there, so a large portion of my clientele in court
20
are in fact Aboriginal.
21
course, we do work up in the Whistler-Pemberton
22
area.
23
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
24
MR. SUDEYKO:
25
In addition to that, of
And over on the Sunshine Coast.
And the Sunshine Coast as well.
Mount
Currie, so a large amount is up in the area of
Dan Sudeyko
1
Page 104
Pemberton so a large proportion.
2
TIMEKEEPER:
3
MR. SUDEYKO:
Am I over the 15?
4
NEW SPEAKER:
Yes.
5
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
6
7
You're running over your time.
We're at 20 now.
If you can capture the essence of the
message you want for us.
MR. SUDEYKO:
Yes.
I think -- again, my view is that --
8
well, how do we solve it?
There's no doubt there's
9
an issue of funding, but I think we can look at the
10
funding upfront as being an assistance in the long
11
term by helping society and keeping these people
12
out of the system.
13
one step further, and that is the issue as to
14
whether we can look at a different system, a system
15
that's more integrated.
16
But I want to go just quickly
And that's -- in which -- the people we see
17
come to court often are repeat people, and that's
18
in both the criminal and family context.
19
they're faced with the same issues over and over
20
again, whether it's poverty or a lack of education,
21
mental health issues, physical disability, drug and
22
alcohol are very common.
23
things that bring them back.
24
system that would integrate for that -- and a small
25
picture of that is the community court that's down
And
All of these are the
If we could design a
Dan Sudeyko
Mandy Sidhu
Page 105
1
on the east side of Vancouver.
2
that directly, but something that would assist
3
people when they get to court that they can then
4
access these things other than what we provide them
5
in terms of information which legal aid does on a
6
regular basis.
7
I think that -- not
But if we could have an integrated approach
8
that was funded by the government to have a mental
9
health worker there, to have an income-assistance
10
person there, an employment counsellor, a drug and
11
alcohol counsellor, then I think that over the long
12
run you would see less people coming back to court,
13
family, criminal, otherwise.
14
15
I thank you for the opportunity to speak.
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
16
17
18
19
Mandy Sidhu, please.
MS. SIDHU:
Good afternoon.
I'd like to thank the
commission for giving us this opportunity to speak.
My name is Mandy Sidhu.
I'm a public legal
20
educator from South Fraser Women's Services
21
Society.
22
a registered non-profit women's centre which has
23
been operating since 1978.
24
and advocacy program has been meeting the legal
25
needs of clients for ten years now.
South Fraser Women's Services Society is
The legal information
We began the
Mandy Sidhu
Page 106
1
program with one advocate, and as the needs of the
2
clients have expanded so has our program, to two
3
advocates and myself, the public legal educator.
4
5
6
Our program is -COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Sorry to interrupt you.
There's two
advocates and you, and what is your status?
7
MS. SIDHU:
I'm the public legal educator.
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
MS. SIDHU:
Are you a lawyer?
No.
10
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
11
MS. SIDHU:
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
MS. SIDHU:
Okay.
I'm an outreach advocate.
Okay.
Thank you.
The legal program has expanded significantly
14
over the last five years.
In November 2009 we
15
opened up a satellite location, South Fraser Legal
16
Resource Centre.
17
make access to justice for clients a bit simpler.
18
The services that are now provided for clients at
19
this new centre is the legal information and
20
advocacy program, which primarily deals with family
21
law.
22
Group and we offer poverty law clinics.
23
that most of our clients who are coming to us with
24
family law issues are not only dealing with family
25
law but there's overlapping issues, and one of the
The goal of this centre was to
We've partnered with the Newton Advocacy
We find
Mandy Sidhu
1
Page 107
main ones is poverty law.
2
We also are in partnership with Access Pro
3
Bono clinics, a community victim service --
4
community-based victim service workers in
5
partnership with Vancouver Lower Mainland
6
Multicultural Services, stopping the violence
7
trauma counselling.
8
legal public outreach worker, is to raise awareness
9
on the community -- mainstream community and
And my position, which is a
10
also particularly the South Asian community's legal
11
rights, and to provide awareness and education.
12
MS. HEPNER:
Is that outreach done collectively or
13
individually?
14
people come to?
15
MS. SIDHU:
Or do you do programs that many
We have -- our outreach services have been
16
put up in projects.
So I can just briefly -- what
17
we've done is we've created manuals for physicians,
18
beauticians and general community members,
19
businesses and -- and educators, so teachers in
20
terms of (a) identifying the culturally competency,
21
so identifying issues of multiculturalism and the
22
backgrounds of different cultures for doctors and
23
beauticians to understand what barriers these women
24
have.
25
signs of abuse and where to make the proper
And secondly, proper referral screening,
Mandy Sidhu
1
Page 108
referral.
2
My position also allows me to meet these
3
clients in these environments to create more of a
4
safety -- a safe atmosphere for the client.
5
she's in an abusive situation, she can say that
6
she's going to see the doctor and actually meet
7
with me and get some legal information on her
8
rights and what her steps would be if she were
9
choosing to leave with her children and how to do
So if
10
that safely and doing safety planning and those
11
types of things.
12
So our South Fraser Legal Resource Centre
13
has experienced an increase in caseload since the
14
recent legal aid funding cuts, and particularly
15
since the closure of the Surrey Regional Legal Aid
16
office in April 2009.
17
based on our stats, we have seen from -- in 2008
18
we saw a 4 percent increase in our total clients,
19
in 2009 we saw a 15 percent increase, and to date,
20
for 2010 until the end of June, we saw a 19 percent
21
increase, and we anticipate it to obviously be more
22
for the remaining months of this year.
23
24
25
MS. HEPNER:
Just for some numbers and
And what was the number that it started at,
the mean?
MS. SIDHU:
Total clients?
Mandy Sidhu
1
Page 109
MS. HEPNER:
Yes.
Before you went up to 8 [sic], 15 and
2
19.
3
MS. SIDHU:
672 clients.
4
MS. HEPNER:
Thank you.
5
MS. SIDHU:
So I'm just going to outline some of the
6
problems that our clients have been experiencing
7
with legal aid.
8
that we hear of but they're not limited to.
9
Lawyers not returning calls in a timely manner.
These are some of the problems
10
These are clients who have -- who have legal
11
representation.
12
that they've come and -- and we have heard from
13
them.
14
issues have been resolved, and not applying for
15
extended services or extended services applications
16
being denied.
17
New Westminster and Surrey Provincial Courthouse.
18
The inability to connect and receive a response in
19
a timely manner from the intake office in the
20
Surrey -- the intake staff at the Surrey office.
21
The usage of the lawyer's hours is an issue that
22
appears to be problematic as lawyers are providing
23
little or no explanation to the client before
24
closing their file.
25
also an issue due to language barriers, and a lack
These are the barriers and issues
Lawyers exhausting hours before the client
Limited intake hours at the
And we believe that this is
Mandy Sidhu
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1
of translation and support for the clients who are
2
going to appointments.
3
We are seeing the pool of legal aid lawyers in
4
Surrey diminishing.
5
approved for legal aid, there is only a small
6
collection of lawyers that will take the file on.
7
Some of our clients have appeared in court
8
unrepresented as counsel have not been assigned
9
prior to their court date.
10
When and if clients are being
Many of our clients experience difficulty with
11
the intake process as well as they are unintentionally
12
leaving out critical information that results in
13
denial.
14
separation or divorce which is not covered -- which
15
is not a covered issue and minimize the issues of
16
protection and custody.
17
under the misunderstanding that these issues are
18
all-encompassing and a divorce includes all the
19
immediate issues that needs addressing.
20
times these serious issues are not fleshed out at
21
the intake appointment and result in a denial.
22
Often times these -- sorry.
23
our services after a denial are exasperated,
24
stating that they were rushed through the intake
25
process, they were not aware of the information ...
For example, many clients ask for a
Some clients have been
Often
The clients who access
Mandy Sidhu
1
2
Page 111
Sorry.
They were not aware of the information -- that
3
the information was appropriate to share.
As we
4
work with a high immigrant population who's
5
culturally not encouraged -- the women are
6
culturally not encouraged to self-disclose personal
7
information about their personal family issues.
8
If a client accesses our program prior to the
9
legal aid appointment, we can explain the process,
10
flesh out legal issues where necessary, and
11
accompany them if they need translation or support.
12
These clients are more likely to be approved for
13
legal aid coverage as they are feeling more
14
confident with the legal aid process.
15
cases, however, we meet with clients after they
16
have applied to legal aid and have been denied.
17
In more
From hearing our clients, we agree that the
18
intake process needs to be improved as clients are
19
overwhelmed, not asked the right questions, often
20
dealing with sensitive family issues, experiencing
21
cultural language barriers and, unfortunately, in
22
other cases are simply not heard.
23
in a position to help intake staff and are often
24
told the client's history in more depth than intake
25
workers.
Advocates aren't
It would be beneficial for the Legal
Mandy Sidhu
Page 112
1
Services Society to consider developing
2
partnerships or re-establishing those relationships
3
that previously existed where advocates can make
4
referrals.
5
And this wasn't included in my brief notes,
6
but I would just like to add that advocates and
7
working with these women, the changes to legal aid
8
that we have seen as staff, our appointment times
9
have increased from where we were giving clients
10
about an hour per appointment where we're now
11
seeing that our clients -- our clients are needing
12
more appointment times and our time sometimes
13
will go from two to two and a half to three hours
14
because, obviously, more and more clients are
15
needing to self-represent.
16
workload is increasing and we're not seeing as many
17
clients in our Monday to Friday week timeline as we
18
used to be because we're spending more and more
19
time on each file helping the client prepare for
20
court, guiding her through the process, and helping
21
her understand just the legal process and language,
22
which can be very difficult alone if you don't have
23
any language or cultural barriers.
24
25
So that's all I have.
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
And therefore our
Thank you.
Thank you.
Robert Bellows
1
2
3
Page 113
Mr. Bellows.
MR. BELLOWS:
Thank you for the commission being here and
giving me a chance to speak.
4
I've been 35 years a criminal lawyer and a
5
mixed practice of legal aid and paying clients.
6
And that box -- I went through my garage yesterday
7
and it says "legal aid since 1994."
8
through a bunch of the press clippings in there,
9
and it was unbelievable what was said about us back
10
then.
11
answer is nothing.
12
And I went
What's different now to 16 years later?
The
I originally was going to entitle my 15-minute
13
talk "Defence Counsel, the Bastard Children of the
14
Justice System" because that's how it feels.
15
there was a time when there were bastards in -- in
16
the legislation.
17
There was the children of unwed mothers.
18
showed an absolute lack of respect for the children
19
and for the mothers and the fathers, but that's how
20
the bar feels at this point.
21
And
Thank god it got taken out.
And it
I seem to be a sounding board for many
22
lawyers, (a) because of my time at 222 Main.
23
only topic of conversation in the barristers room,
24
in the cafeteria, in the halls is how badly the
25
lawyers are being treated.
The level of
The
Robert Bellows
Page 114
1
frustration, the level of anger, the level of
2
disgust is just beneath the surface.
3
Because there's absolutely no respect whatsoever
4
for the job that we do from the government.
5
it doesn't matter if it's NDP, it doesn't matter if
6
it's liberals.
7
independent people who do this job for some,
8
perhaps, misbegotten concern for those who need
9
help.
10
11
And why?
And
We are not a bureaucracy; we're
We don't expect to make great gobs of money
because we're not greedy people.
The situation is now at the point -- and if
12
Mr. Sudeyko thought I was passionate, he
13
encompasses a lot more legal aspects than just
14
criminal law.
15
are supposed to be passionate.
16
be intellectuals, thinking with part of our brain
17
and passionate about what we do because people's
18
liberty depends on what we do in court.
19
tell you that at this point these are the most
20
Darwinian times that defence counsel have
21
experienced since I've been a lawyer for 35 years.
22
And so when I hear his passion, we
We walk into court.
We are supposed to
And I can
I don't know if the --
23
I'm sure Mr. Doust has a copy of this.
I don't
24
know if the other members of the panel do, but I'll
25
just pass up three copies.
Robert Bellows
1
Page 115
This was prepared by Legal Services back in
2
March or April for the board.
It shows since 1994
3
the percentage change in expenditures between:
4
Crown counsel in green, provincial court in blue,
5
and the criminal bar in red.
6
130 percent to the Crown, 115 percent to the
7
provincial court, and by golly, there's the
8
criminal bar at minus 15 percent.
9
this, my first reaction was complete and total
And so you go from
When I first saw
10
anger.
11
obscene.
12
been posted in the barristers room, has the same
13
reaction.
14
My second reaction was that this was
Every lawyer that has seen it, and it's
We do not ask for, let's say, great gobs of
15
money, but what we do require in order to do a
16
minimally acceptable quality piece of work is
17
appropriate, fair remuneration.
18
occurring.
19
tariff every so often.
20
fee, and then they get taken away.
21
get taken away.
22
we cannot defend or take care of their needs.
23
it doesn't matter that it costs about 5,000 bucks a
24
month to keep somebody in a provincial institution
25
because there is no benefit/cost ratio being
That's simply not
Crumbs get thrown out on the criminal
Things like a $40 opening
Category ones
So people are sitting in jail that
And
Robert Bellows
Page 116
1
applied.
So the peanuts that were thrown to
2
defence counsel to defend these people translated
3
to thousands of dollars, and so there's a huge
4
financial cost.
5
Good counsel spending time with clients,
6
getting at the root of what's been going on can put
7
their story forward to the court, and in essence
8
that's what happens in court.
9
story forward through its witnesses, the defence
The Crown puts its
10
puts its story forward through the accused and
11
their witnesses, and then the judge decides.
12
if there's nobody there to help tell the story,
13
then the person becomes dehumanized.
14
have now are a whole lot of people in jail that are
15
dehumanized and just thought of as losers.
16
they may financially be socioeconomically, but in
17
terms of the law they're not.
18
people, they're sitting in jail with no lawyers.
19
That never happened from the time I started
20
practicing here and I never thought I would see the
21
day.
22
are the most Darwinian legal times I've ever
23
experienced.
24
25
Well, now I have.
But
So what we
Well,
They're accused
And that's why I say these
What's happening in terms of legal aid is an
exercise in oxygen depravation.
The issue is how
Robert Bellows
Page 117
1
low can the dollars go and still have lawyers on
2
their feet standing in court with words coming out
3
of their mouths?
4
quality doesn't matter.
5
The answer:
A lot lower if
The last speaker talked about lawyers not
6
returning phone calls or not spending the time.
7
The lawyers are exhausted emotionally, mentally,
8
physically.
9
statistics show the percentage of young lawyers
10
coming in to doing legal aid is dropping, if I'm
11
not mistaken.
12
Mr. Benson will tell you that his
Yeah, he's nodding his head.
The other chart that I have -- again,
13
Mr. Doust has probably seen this.
14
number of lawyers accepting legal aid cases.
15
2000 it was about 1,450, it's now dropped down to
16
900.
17
their right mind starting off after law school
18
would do legal aid.
19
counsel at the courthouse when they see a young
20
articling student, some are recommending head
21
the other way and get out of here because there is
22
no -- there is no future.
Why?
I'll tell you why.
It shows a
In
Because nobody in
And, in fact, experienced
23
There's a myth -- there's a myth that lawyers
24
only do legal aid at the beginning of their career
25
because then they graduate to high-priced
Robert Bellows
Page 118
1
independent clients, and that's a myth.
Some do.
2
Perhaps the smart ones who see the writing on the
3
wall say that's it, I'm out of here, I'm going to
4
develop simply a 100 percent fee-based practice.
5
But there are a lot of dedicated lawyers, and
6
what's happening is that the motivation, the energy
7
is being sucked out of the private bar.
8
We have a higher duty to our clients, and that
9
duty, the Law Society states it, it's an ethical --
10
an ethical duty to perform your best.
11
limit to what that -- to what you can do.
12
touched on it.
13
the same quality, it's impossible.
14
thinks that we should be able to, well, then they
15
can start trying to have 18-hour days with no
16
family life and have spouses who go, what are you
17
doing?
18
cut it anymore.
19
There is a
And Dan
As much as we would like to provide
Well, I'm dedicated.
And anybody who
Dedication doesn't
Every lawyer I talked to says we're devalued
20
and we're disrespected by the government.
We don't
21
expect the public to understand the courts, we
22
don't expect most of the public to understand how
23
hard we're supposed to fight in court.
24
expect the government to understand that because
25
they spend millions and billions catching people,
We do
Robert Bellows
Page 119
1
prosecuting them, judging them, incarcerating them.
2
The amount spent on legal aid is peanuts compared
3
to the billions.
4
political that there's going to be billions and
5
billions more spent on prisons keeping people in
6
jail longer at the same time as the defence -- the
7
defence bar -- and I can't speak for family; I can
8
only speak for the defence bar -- the same time as
9
the funds are being cut.
10
And I -- I note without getting
The Kamloops lawyers withdrew duty counsel for
11
a while just so that they would be seen to be on
12
their hind feet and alive and kicking, standing up
13
for their -- for their case.
14
I can tell you that there are other lawyers that
15
are getting ready to withdraw in various stages.
16
And -- because they have no alternative.
17
They went back.
Brinston came out here from Ontario and said
18
if you don't do something now, five years from now
19
it's going to be exactly the same or worse.
20
from 1994 we've been quiet for 16 years.
21
Because we're courteous, respectful people.
22
walk every day into court, we bow out of courtesy
23
and respect for Her Majesty the Queen.
24
very dignified until now.
25
doesn't listen, then there are going to be serious
So
Why?
We
We've been
And if the government
Robert Bellows
1
Page 120
difficulties.
2
Why is the defence bar treated this way?
3
Well, the answer is because the government can get
4
away with it.
5
we've been quiet.
6
gotten turned down, finally it's beginning to dawn
7
on us our services are not valued.
8
respect, there's lip-service.
9
Attorney General's department says, we want to
Because we have allowed them to,
And as the -- as the money has
There's no
Once a year the
10
thank the lawyers for their wonderful contribution
11
to helping the courts go.
12
exactly that, it's lip-service.
13
But lip-service is
So the concept of a healthy defence bar
14
isn't -- isn't on the -- isn't on the agenda.
15
if you don't have a healthy defence bar, then it's
16
a mockery in terms of what happens in court.
17
And
The arbitrary cuts -- I can tell you that one
18
of the difficulties Mr. Benton has with legal
19
services is that there's now no longer a gap or
20
difference between the lawyer's perception of the
21
government turning the money down and Legal
22
Services.
And so there's no independence of Legal
23
Services.
It's a government agency set up as a
24
non-profit society, supposedly, but it's run,
25
controlled and funded by the government.
So there
Robert Bellows
Page 121
1
should be no allusions about that, it's a captive
2
agency.
3
The recent simplified tariff is supposed to be
4
revenue neutral, make billings easier.
Nobody
5
believes that it's revenue neutral; it's perceived
6
as another cut.
7
watching their billings go down.
8
what Mr. Sudeyko was saying, gee, lawyers having
9
offices, overheads actually being able to do
So even in this time, lawyers are
And the very --
10
quality work, have assistants?
11
yesterday and there were a number of lawyers.
12
just can't afford it, young lawyers.
13
lawyers are going to be the life blood of the
14
courts because when -- when people like me retire,
15
you want a vibrant, young bunch coming through.
16
They're feeling absolutely appalled and sickened by
17
what they're having to endure.
18
trust at all.
19
I was at a meeting
They
The young
And there's no
In the last few weeks I spoke to one extremely
20
experienced lawyer who said -- the person said
21
never -- never do another dangerous offender
22
proceeding again because you can't get the expert,
23
Legal Services won't approve it.
24
finished a murder trial said, I'll never do another
25
murder trial again.
Another one who
These are both passionate,
Robert Bellows
Page 122
1
really competent lawyers.
2
murder trial again because I can't get the hours
3
for the preparation and I'm not going to have
4
somebody who's done 25 years on my conscience
5
because I'm faking it.
6
I'll never do another
Another one who said, I stopped requesting
7
extra fees because they kept saying no.
He's a QC.
8
Another one yesterday said he made four appearances
9
in North Vancouver and got paid nothing because
10
you get paid nothing unless there's a trial or bail
11
hearing or sentence, so all the other times you go
12
there's nothing.
13
supposed to be in the judge's chambers at 9 o'clock
14
fully prepared, nothing.
15
Pretrial conferences when you're
Wiped out.
So the new lawyers are seeing what's
16
happening.
They're dismayed, they don't feel that
17
they can stand up.
18
doing this for 35 years that I can stand up and say
19
what's on my mind because I'm not afraid, I've been
20
at this long enough.
21
later, where are we at?
22
All of that work that went in 16 years ago, we're
23
back to that same position 16 years later.
24
you have to do is look at the chart and go, what
25
kind of people would actually do this and carry on
Maybe it's because I've been
They're dismayed.
16 years
We're right there again.
And all
Robert Bellows
Page 123
1
doing this?
2
committed people, people who care.
3
And the answer is dedicated people,
And if you want to destroy those people, keep
4
on doing exactly what the government's doing and
5
you'll have a bar that is going to be basically defunct.
6
It won't be worthy of -- it won't be able to call
7
itself a bar.
8
It's now a matter of self-respect and quality.
9
the reason that the lawyers are angry is because
And that's where the bar is now at.
And
10
they cannot deliver the quality that they know is
11
the bottom line.
12
risking -- turning into a bucket shop operation.
13
So when you strip away the self-respect of the bar,
14
you've got a bunch of -- you've got a bunch of very
15
spirited people whose passion has gone, whose
16
vibrancy has gone, whose intellectual keenness has
17
gone, and you've got a bunch of robots going
18
through the motions.
19
to have people going through the motions.
20
MS. HEPNER:
And so what it's turning into is
And that's not the forum,
May I ask you just one question, please,
21
Mr. Bellows.
Putting remuneration aside for a
22
moment, because I think you've been fairly
23
passionate that that is clearly lacking, do you see
24
other areas of improvement that you can quantify
25
here?
Robert Bellows
1
MR. BELLOWS:
Page 124
No.
The reason I don't is because that, to
2
me, is the number one issue.
3
dealt with --
4
MS. HEPNER:
5
MR. BELLOWS:
And until that gets
Fair enough.
You can see the judges, the prosecutors,
6
they're very handsomely taken care of.
We're not
7
asking to be handsomely taken care of; we're just
8
asking to be appropriately taken care of or
9
appropriately remunerated for the extremely
10
difficult work that we do.
11
when you're defending somebody, it's a lot like
12
having somebody on your back climbing the mountain,
13
and when you get to the top of the mountain and
14
they get off with their knapsack it's full of
15
rocks.
16
out before I helped you carry it up the mountain?
17
And they say, well, you didn't ask.
18
ridiculous burden and with very difficult -- very
19
difficult -- people in very difficult situations.
20
And I will take one more minute here.
And you go, why didn't you take the rocks
21
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
22
Mr. Bellows.
23
message.
24
25
MR. BELLOWS:
And Mr. Doust knows
Yes.
It can be a
We're getting close,
I think we've got the gist of your
Let me tell you a quote from another QC.
He said, this isn't about rearranging the deck
Robert Bellows
Page 125
1
chairs on the Titanic; he said, this is like
2
kicking the rust off the plates at the ocean floor.
3
This is a very highly respected QC that -- that
4
said that.
5
6
7
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
I'm glad you added that.
Not all QCs
or highly respected.
MR. BELLOWS:
This one is.
The alternative -- in my
8
respectful submission, there is no alternative
9
except to properly fund the bar, and to do it
10
pretty soon because, as I say, you now have
11
experienced counsel suggesting to newcomers, hit
12
the road as quickly as you can unless you intend to
13
develop a strictly paying practice because doing
14
legal aid work is -- there's absolutely no future
15
in it and it's totally -- totally not respected, so
16
if you want any kind of respect don't do it.
17
That's where the system has gotten to 16 years
18
after -- after we withdrew our services for about
19
three months.
20
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
And -Mr. Bellows, not to suggest that
21
it's any kind of an answer, but I'm curious to know.
22
You're very familiar with the legal aid bar,
23
particularly in Vancouver.
24
make their living exclusively on legal aid in
25
Vancouver?
How many practitioners
Do you have any idea?
Amita Vulimiri
Page 126
1
MR. BELLOWS:
2
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
3
4
Um -I know that there was one around
and he's gone now.
MR. BELLOWS:
Yeah.
There's a reasonable number of
5
lawyers who -- for whom legal aid forms a large
6
proportion of their billings, and given the -- it's
7
not the kind of thing -- it's not the kind of thing
8
that lawyers who have predominantly paying
9
practices sort of drop in to do.
10
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
11
MR. BELLOWS:
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
No, I understand.
So -What would the numbers be of those
13
who, let's say, predominantly their income is legal
14
aid?
15
MR. BELLOWS:
16
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
17
MR. BELLOWS:
18
I would say maybe --
Ballpark, maybe 40, 30.
That's a guess, though.
19
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
20
much.
21
MR. BELLOWS:
22
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
23
24
25
Just a ballpark.
Yeah.
30 to 40, in there.
I don't know.
All right.
Thank you very
Thank you.
Thanks, Mr. Bellows.
Amita Vulimiri and Jodie Gauthier, please.
MS. VULIMIRI:
So I'm Amita Vulimiri, and I just graduated
from UBC law in May.
And I'm currently working as
Amita Vulimiri
Jodie Gauthier
Page 127
1
a legal advocate with the North Shore Community
2
Resources Society, and I'm going to be articling
3
next month with a law firm in Victoria doing
4
primarily child protection.
5
MS. GAUTHIER:
And my name is Jodie Gauthier.
I'm also
6
living in Vancouver right now, and I graduated with
7
Amita from UBC Law in the spring.
8
articling at the BC Public Advocacy Centre in
9
Vancouver.
10
MS. VULIMIRI:
Currently, I'm
And so first we'd like to talk about our
11
experiences with legal aid.
During law school,
12
Jodie and I were both organizers of a panel
13
discussion on legal aid, which Jodie will talk
14
about a little later.
15
I provide poverty law advocacy services to
16
individuals.
17
have tried to get legal aid but have not qualified.
18
And the types of issues that I help my clients with
19
have caused me to sort of further realize how
20
issues that my clients deal with fall across
21
different fields of law.
22
be dealing with both family and poverty law issues
23
which interconnect.
24
the poverty law issues separately, it creates
25
difficulty for me because there's other matters
And in my current position
And often the individuals I represent
For example, a client may
And when I try to address
Amita Vulimiri
Page 128
1
that fall outside of my mandate which I can't help
2
my clients with.
3
And, for example, I had a client receiving
4
persons with disability benefits from the Ministry
5
of Housing and Social Development, and he's in the
6
process of divorcing his wife who's also receiving
7
these types of benefits and custody issues are
8
involved because they have one daughter.
9
because they're fighting over custody of the
And
10
daughter, they're having difficulty separating
11
their disability file with the Ministry -- they
12
were originally under one file -- because the
13
Ministry is not going to fund both of them to take
14
care of the child, so only one of them is going to
15
get the support allowance for the child.
16
In addition, they're having difficulty with
17
their subsidized housing provider because the
18
housing provider will only provide a subsidy for
19
one of them to have housing that will allow them to
20
accommodate their child.
21
So I'm trying to address their housing and
22
income assistance issues as well as I can, but my
23
client didn't qualify for legal aid so he's trying
24
to represent himself in court.
25
difficult.
So it's very, very
All of my client's issues are stemming
Jodie Gauthier
Page 129
1
from this family law issue, while the poverty law
2
issues that I'm trying to address are stemming from
3
a central family law issue which falls beyond my
4
mandate.
5
MS. GAUTHIER:
So it's quite difficult.
In terms of my current position at the BC
6
Public Advocacy Centre, I've done systemic advocacy.
7
And we don't have the mandate or capacity to do a
8
lot of work for individual clients, but we do hear
9
a lot from people who have been often refused legal
10
representation through legal aid and are now trying
11
to put together the best representation they can
12
either through accessing our services or through
13
accessing legal advocates.
14
with legal advocates who say that their workload
15
has gone up so much because of cuts to legal aid
16
that they're taking on more and more work
17
attempting to fill in the gaps that have been left.
18
And these are all organizations that have been
19
working much more effectively, including our own,
20
in a system which included well-funded legal aid.
21
And we also work a lot
Then to go back to what Amita said a moment
22
ago about this panel of organized law students.
23
Many law students are very interested in doing
24
poverty law and social justice work but don't see
25
a lot of opportunities on the other end at this
Jodie Gauthier
Page 130
1
point, and so we organized a legal aid panel to
2
have lawyers currently doing legal aid come in to
3
speak about their experiences.
4
was that it's almost impossible now to run a legal
5
aid practice, and that there are -- clinics have
6
sometimes disappeared.
7
opportunities for recent graduates to find
8
opportunities to even learn how to do legal aid
9
files, how the system works.
And what we heard
There's very few
And so it was quite
10
disheartening for students who came out to hear
11
more about how they could get involved in legal aid
12
files and then hear the system is incredibly grim.
13
On a personal note, it was funny going through
14
our last year of university at the time when the
15
clinic model was really beginning to fall apart and
16
funding has been going down so quickly, that it's
17
interesting emerging into this atmosphere.
18
Now, in terms of what circumstances -- under
19
what circumstances legal aid should be provided in
20
BC.
21
in all situations -- well, not all situations, but
22
in -- more in situations where physical, mental or
23
economic security is at stake.
24
we see a lot of poverty law issues, immigration
25
issues, housing issues, family law issues, and
We think that legal aid needs to be provided
So in our position
Jodie Gauthier
Amita Vulimiri
Page 131
1
these things all have a very direct impact on
2
people's well-being but are more and more unfunded
3
by legal aid.
4
And because legal aid is provided so narrowly,
5
there's little recognition of how these different
6
areas of law interact, especially for low-income
7
people.
8
address one issue; for example, a criminal law
9
issue, there are often other issues that also need
And so if you address -- even if you
10
to be addressed, including family law or poverty
11
law issues.
12
MS. VULIMIRI:
So for what legal issues should legal aid
13
be provided in BC?
14
coverage of issues beyond what is mandated by the
15
Charter.
16
the floor and not the ceiling on coverage.
17
Jodie said, we think that poverty law, family law
18
and immigration law are all areas that should
19
receive wider coverage.
20
must be covered, but issues such as accessing
21
benefits, asserting housing rights or getting a
22
fair custody agreement are also the sorts of issues
23
that have a huge impact on people's daily lives.
24
25
We think that there should be
We think that Charter rights should set
As
Criminal law obviously
For example, I used to work at an advocacy
office downtown with an outreach worker who
Amita Vulimiri
Page 132
1
assisted a lot of homeless clients, and one of
2
our clients was actually trying to get into jail
3
because he just needed a place to live so jail was
4
better than being on the street.
5
he had a lot of other legal issues, such as tenancy
6
issues, that resulted in him becoming homeless and
7
those issues weren't adequately addressed.
8
perhaps this situation could have been prevented
9
with a better funded legal aid system.
10
And we know that
So
In addition, I've helped clients who have had
11
tenancy issues as a result of leaving jail.
12
they had legal aid funded criminal lawyers, but
13
they didn't have people who were helping them with
14
the other matters that stemmed from their criminal
15
issues.
16
So
And how should legal aid in BC be funded?
We
17
think that legal aid should receive stable, public
18
funding, obviously, and private funding is
19
unpredictable by its very nature.
20
services are changed or cut, it creates confusion
21
for clients and additional burdens on legal
22
advocates and lawyers.
23
substitute for a clinic system, as we're going to
24
talk about a little bit later on.
25
Every time
We think that there's no
And what should the priorities of the legal
Amita Vulimiri
Jodie Gauthier
Page 133
1
aid system in BC be?
We think that legal aid must
2
be more accessible, more comprehensive and more
3
flexible to allow lawyers to respond to client's
4
actually complex needs in the full context of their
5
lives.
6
MS. GAUTHIER:
We also think that by providing legal
7
rights representation earlier on for a wider range
8
of issues you can prevent even greater issues later
9
on.
And so an individual who might have had
10
something that could have been solved at an early
11
stage is then without legal representation and
12
their legal problems spiral from there.
13
providing some legal representation earlier on, you
14
can save money for the system but also save a lot
15
of grief and pain for the people who are going
16
through these legal issues.
17
MS. VULIMIRI:
So our ideas for the future.
And so by
Again, we'd
18
like to talk about the clinic model.
We think that
19
a clinic model is one of the most efficient ways to
20
provide legal aid services because most of the
21
legal needs of a client, especially a low-income
22
client, obviously, can be taken care of in one
23
place.
24
repetition, the same type of work.
25
people servicing the clients will know what work
It'll prevent work from being done in
And all of the
Amita Vulimiri
1
Page 134
has been done previously to assist the client.
2
And I think that's a big problem right now, is
3
legal advocates trying to fill in the gaps left by
4
legal aid, because we have multiple agencies that
5
don't necessarily communicate with each other or
6
have the ability to communicate with each other
7
very adequately trying to assist clients, so we
8
don't know what's already been done for clients and
9
we're not able to assist clients in a comprehensive
10
11
way.
And right now I'm working in a multiservice
12
agency.
13
on seniors' issues, in childcare issues working
14
where I'm working, and I've noticed how helpful
15
that is because I can provide service -- more
16
comprehensive service for my clients if, for
17
example, some of their issues touch on the other
18
services that are provided at my agency.
19
use their expertise and I can work with others in
20
my agency.
21
And there are people who are specialists
So I can
And, in addition, where I work it used to be a
22
community law office.
So, actually, where I work
23
now as a legal advocate, my office was once an
24
office where a legal aid lawyer used to work.
25
so that's really made me realize that -- our office
And
Amita Vulimiri
Jodie Gauthier
Page 135
1
closed in 2002, was a big cut that year.
2
existing services in my agency have made me realize
3
how beneficial that community law office must have
4
been to clients because they gave access not only
5
to legal services but additional social supports
6
all in one location, and it would have provided,
7
I think, really comprehensive, efficient service.
8
MS. GAUTHIER:
And the
Another benefit of the clinic model would
9
be for graduates who are just coming out of law
10
school and who are interested in doing legal aid
11
work.
12
relatively lucky and were able to find jobs working
13
with social justice, legal organizations, but those
14
jobs are disappearing very quickly.
15
terms of providing expertise to new lawyers and
16
new people entering the legal profession, the
17
clinic model would provide a gathering place of
18
expertise and it would provide a resource for
19
people who are wanting to learn more about how
20
to run a legal aid practice and also to see some
21
sort of opportunity in that field, and so I think
22
that a clinic model would be helpful in that
23
respect as well.
24
25
So for myself and Amita, we both were
That's our presentation.
And so in
Thank you very much
for hearing us.
Gurpreet Pabla
1
Page 136
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
We'll take a
2
break until, say, five to 3:00.
3
(PROCEEDINGS RECESSED AT 2:39 P.M. )
4
(PROCEEDINGS RECONVENED AT 2:55 P.M.)
5
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
We'll get started again, please.
6
Mr. Pabla.
7
from you, please, sir.
8
NEW SPEAKER:
9
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
10
11
Take 15 minutes.
Is Mr. Pabla here, please?
Can we hear
I think Arthur Paul -They're not here.
I'll take him now
and we'll come back to him later.
MR. PABLA:
My name is Gurpreet Pabla and I'm working with
12
Progressive Intercultural Community Services
13
Society.
14
I'll just give some background about the
15
society and what we work, and then we'll go on
16
legal aid.
17
has built a positive and respectful reputation with
18
clients and communities.
19
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
The society since 1987 -- PICS Society
Mr. Pabla, I'm going to ask you
20
to speak a little slower, sir.
21
trouble hearing you clearly.
22
MR. PABLA:
I'm having some
Since 1987, PICS Society has built a positive
23
and a respectful reputation with clients and the
24
community as a multifaceted agency that develops
25
in a way their programs and creates strong
Gurpreet Pabla
Page 137
1
relationships, partnerships with other organizations.
2
We continue to deliver effective programs and
3
services, strengthen both, and augment and broaden
4
our areas of service outside senior housing,
5
health, immigration, counselling programs, English
6
language services, employment programs and
7
agricultural programs.
8
9
PICS will continue to be a strong advocate for
the multicultural and immigrant community,
10
critically the South Asian community.
11
legal advocate we deal with many legal issues with
12
the community, especially faced by the new
13
Canadians.
14
relating to immigration, family, criminal and other
15
legal issues are due to their limited knowledge of
16
Canadian laws.
17
legal matters simply due to lack of knowledge.
18
Their situation becomes worsened when they cannot
19
afford the legal help due to, again, lack of
20
knowledge and mostly due to lack of funds.
21
times they prefer to plead guilty simply due to
22
lack of funds for proper representation without
23
knowing and sometimes even after knowing the
24
long-term implications.
25
Working as a
Some of the issues faced by them
Sometimes they get entangled in
Many
The other groups are the youth and women.
We
Gurpreet Pabla
Page 138
1
come across many instances where the final results
2
would happen totally opposite if they would happen
3
to be properly represented or informed.
4
of these cases, the impact on the people is very
5
far-reaching, which they do not deserve, just
6
because of lack of funds and lack of resources in
7
the community.
8
9
In some
What we -- what I propose is that the Law
Society should encourage the lawyers to do more
10
legal aid work, maybe by increasing the number of
11
hours they would come, and they should come
12
out within a year and giving incentives like
13
recognition and the society and other financial
14
things like maybe annual memberships or maybe for
15
the lawyers.
16
and better training for the advocates in the
17
community to help them --
18
19
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
More encouragement to the advocates
I'm sorry.
Encouragement to the
advocates, and what did you say after that?
20
MR. PABLA:
Encouragement to the -- and better training.
21
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
22
MR. PABLA:
Better training.
In the community.
Okay.
Thank you.
To help them provide more
23
services within the community they serve.
24
training by lawyers and court workers to make them
25
more comfortable for actually doing representation
Some
Gurpreet Pabla
1
2
Page 139
in the more simple procedures for the legal system.
Maybe given more opportunities to other
3
organizations maybe for the funding.
But what
4
I propose -- like, this is something which I really
5
prepared for this and -- but this is something
6
I want to say from my side, is that at PICS we have
7
legal clinics, we have a program where advocates
8
from LSAT come and give legal information and
9
sometimes even legal representation to workers, but
10
we also have tried to encourage partnerships with
11
some societies.
12
Like, last week we introduced -- we tied up --
13
or we had a partnership with the WorkSafeBC and we
14
created a resource room at PICS and also created a
15
new position as -- called a cultural navigator,
16
where we are just started with a humble 10 hours
17
per week program.
18
to do -- be that cultural navigator for -- for this
19
community.
20
But -- and I have an opportunity
What I have seen is -- from my experience,
21
that -- it was just last Wednesday, just -- I have
22
five working days in between, but I have come
23
across 15 additional people who had WorkSafe
24
issues.
25
for almost two and a half years, but I haven't seen
I have been working with this organization
Gurpreet Pabla
Page 140
1
so much of influx just because we have cornered the
2
media and told them that this is a resource that
3
they have and they can have more information in
4
their own language.
5
resources that people are aware of already that
6
they can go to worker's advisors like -- but
7
because of the communication and because of some
8
of the immigrants, new Canadians, they are
9
illiterate in their own language.
So although many of the
10
So the services which are provided, like
11
self-help kit, will not be serving too much to them
12
because they -- it's not just the language barrier
13
but because of a lack of education.
14
even comfortable giving any information on
15
computers.
16
and many information.
They are not
Lack of information regarding computers
17
So what I feel is, like, if we can create such
18
a program where a person -- I'm coming from a legal
19
background, but even I'm not a lawyer in Canada.
20
I'm upgrading my credentials.
21
I have attended most of the trainings in my two and
22
a half years of experience with -- and I really
23
appreciate the kind of trainings we get.
24
self-advocacy.
25
considered me as a senior advocate in BC.
But Law Foundation,
They have
In an e-mail that they have
Gurpreet Pabla
1
Page 141
So I'm getting cases from all over Fraser
2
Valley and sometimes people call me from
3
Abbotsford, sometimes people are calling from
4
Richmond, most of them Vancouver and Surrey is
5
the main area we cater to.
6
project which we have, what I'd like to propose is
7
that clinical model -- like, if we can promote such
8
issues.
But this WorkSafeBC
9
Like, we have people from -- Punjabi-speaking
10
people are coming from Service Canada once a week.
11
Every Friday they come to our location.
12
always have lineup.
13
tell them that we are done, we cannot accommodate
14
more people.
15
And we
We have to turn people out to
So such models would be very much helpful to
16
the community, especially the new Canadians, the
17
men who -- like, legal aid -- we know that there is
18
Punjabi-speaking person in Surrey court helping
19
with -- dealing with legal aid.
20
issues -- like, for -- even for applying for legal
21
aid, we have private lawyers doing the application
22
process in Surrey.
But some of the
23
What I have seen from my experience is
24
sometimes people are very reluctant to go into a
25
law firm to even have -- ask for legal aid.
So
Gurpreet Pabla
Page 142
1
when they come across such resources from a
2
non-profit organization like us and they know that
3
somebody will be able to help them in their own
4
language, they really jump to that opportunity.
5
We as a society, we have been doing a lot --
6
once a month we go on air on radios and different
7
radios and we promote our program.
8
I understand -- to my understanding, the week after
9
we go on air, I'm totally booked.
And
My appointments
10
are totally booked.
11
who are not aware of these services and are not
12
aware of these resources.
13
such resources.
14
has really come forward and I really appreciate the
15
work of -- the CEO of WorkSafe was there at our
16
location to actually do the narration of the
17
resource group.
18
there was a great funding involved, but the -- the
19
step they have taken has, I think -- according to
20
my knowledge, this is really a very good step that
21
they have taken regarding -- in -- in respect to
22
the WorkSafe issues.
23
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
24
MR. PABLA:
25
So there are not many people
Better advertising of
And if we can make -- WorkSafe
They have -- it's not the -- that
That's with the WorkSafeBC?
That's funded by WorkSafeBC.
But -- I'm
employed with PICS, but the funding comes from
Gurpreet Pabla
1
Page 143
WorkSafeBC.
2
And they have put up resources in one of our
3
rooms which has been dedicated as a resource room
4
for WorkSafeBC.
5
model.
6
we advertising that they can get their information
7
in their own language, and we are helping them even
8
in the form filling process on Langley.
They can't
9
do the form filling, the self-help kit.
With a
And I think that's a very good
There are people -- because now -- because
10
legal advocate who has knowledge, who has been
11
specially trained for these program.
12
been giving training by WorkSafe on different
13
aspects, so I would say not just for the workers
14
for the claims, but even for assessment and even
15
for prevention I have been giving training on these
16
models.
17
trainings on these different methods.
18
this is a very good model.
19
be given to advocates on family issues or maybe
20
many other issues which -- especially from new
21
Canadians, youth and women which are vulnerable
22
groups, it would be very much beneficial for them.
23
Like, I have
So they have invested almost three
And I think
If such trainings can
So the clinical model we have at clinics, like
24
people use as a tool that they are coming from
25
Service Canada.
And now we are also asking
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
WorkSafeBC that once maybe a month if a case
2
manager or somebody from HR can come and deliver
3
lectures to the people who are coming to do other
4
programs at our location.
5
beneficial that they are getting the first-hand
6
information from the people.
7
So it would be very much
So such clinics regarding it are clearly
8
beneficial and the people really -- and we cannot
9
judge the number -- the actual number of people
10
who go to courts for the services, but we -- if we
11
see the basic -- how many people are facing
12
problems, it's very different number.
13
greater number.
14
five days I have attended more than 15 people just
15
with WorkSafe issues.
16
basic information that I don't need to represent
17
them, but they didn't even knew the basic
18
information to apply how -- even they have to apply
19
for a form.
20
just I have to explain them -- giving them 15 to 20
21
minutes of my time and just explain -- explain them
22
the communications, the process of communication
23
between the WorkSafe and how the time limits vary.
24
25
It's a very
Because I -- even the -- the last
And they vary from very
So very -- some of the issues were
So that was very informative for them, and
most of the issues were just relating to the
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
information rather than doing the representation
2
to complicated issues.
3
agree, even I am told to be -- to represent them to
4
work as advisors if I consider that those cases
5
need representation and they are relating to
6
complicated issues.
7
Like representation I do
So if we have a system like advocates who have
8
the knowledge about whatever issues we are talking
9
about between the actual people who are presenting,
10
like specialized lawyers who might do the actual
11
presentation and the clients, I think this will be
12
very much -- very important -- very much beneficial
13
for the whole system.
14
If a person goes to legal aid, just a simple
15
form of information.
Even at our organization we
16
have provided work.
It's not that every person who
17
walks into the organization is to be dealt with me,
18
we have a separate set of workers who do the form
19
filling.
20
the person's application is rejected for the B
21
process, they come to me.
22
created where we have two or three levels so that
23
even if we have limitation providing the -- doing
24
the actual presentation of the people, but more
25
people who just need the basic information or just
I don't need to do the form filling.
If
So such a model can be
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
need to be explained about what the order is, the
2
decision which has been made is based on these
3
facts.
4
And the contentment.
I have seen -- out of,
5
like, 15 people that I have dealt with, 10 who went
6
back with their issues resolved.
7
guesstimate that I am making, but almost 10 of
8
them.
9
were -- had their issues resolved because they
This is just a
So according to me, two thirds of the people
10
didn't understand the order -- what the order was.
11
Some people didn't even understand that they just
12
had to do one application because three application
13
processes were there.
14
be from the worker, one from the employer, one from
15
the doctor.
16
did not file his own application so that was a very
17
basic information, but otherwise he was so much
18
time committed that why did WorkSafe not accept my
19
claim?
20
The one application has to
One of the issues was just because he
So some of the issues might just be covered.
21
By putting another person in between the actual
22
people who are doing the main work, if we send the
23
same person to a lawyer it might take the valuable
24
time of a lawyer to just getting explain what all
25
the things are and then going through all the
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
paperwork.
2
put a person between the clients and the lawyers,
3
advocate system.
4
It would be much more beneficial if we
And I do appreciate that the law firm is doing
5
wonderful job by giving training and constantly in
6
touch with Louise and law firm doing the training
7
coordinator.
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
And -Let me see if I understand what
you're saying.
You're advocating for a model which
10
would provide different levels of service; is that
11
right?
12
very basic, filling out forms and so on.
13
it's a little more complex, it moves up the ladder
14
in the context of your model?
One would be kind of -- one level would be
15
MR. PABLA:
16
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
17
MR. PABLA:
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
And if
Yes.
Is that the idea?
Yes, this is the idea.
And where -- where does legal advice
19
fit in the model if it's so complex that it needs a
20
lawyer?
21
me if I'm wrong, your access to lawyers is through
22
poverty law; is that it?
23
MR. PABLA:
Right now, as I understand it, you correct
My access -- we also have a supervising lawyer
24
who's a legal aid -- Chris Maddock is our
25
supervising lawyer.
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
2
MR. PABLA:
3
What is he?
He's a supervising lawyer and he's working
with legal aid.
4
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
5
MR. PABLA:
Yes.
He works for legal aid?
And -- but the thing is ...
But the
6
thing is that we only go for cases where we need
7
supervision and we want to do the self-representation.
8
We want to represent that guy in that process.
9
10
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Yes.
You want to be supervised by a
lawyer?
11
MR. PABLA:
Yes.
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
MR. PABLA:
Yes.
So giving out legal advice will be that we get
14
the supervision, but we can also do referrals with
15
the legal -- worker's advisors or employer's
16
advisors, or we have TRAC, which we can just --
17
I have gone through some hearings myself which was
18
not very complicated issues.
19
complicated issues we can represent to TRAC or
20
other such specialized operations which are dealing
21
with particular parts of the law.
22
referrals as well.
23
But if we face any
So we do
But the clinical point as well.
Like, we
24
don't have -- we don't call lawyers every day.
25
once a week LSAT comes to our -- LSAT people
But
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
come -- students from UBC come to our location,
2
once a week Service Canada comes to our location.
3
And now we are working around with WorkSafe that if
4
somebody from their office can come and give legal
5
advice to people.
6
will be very helpful for the legal aid process.
7
Yes.
So these kinds of models I think
Those are my submissions.
Like --
8
because this is really that people with limited
9
knowledge or limited language, different barriers,
10
language barriers, literacy or just new immigrants
11
who just don't have the knowledge of law.
12
Myself as an immigrant did not knew about the
13
EI system, although I read it only after one --
14
even with my legal background I was not aware about
15
the EI system.
16
wondering why was this document sent to me.
17
I have to -- I could have researched it because of
18
my knowledge on computers and in the law
19
I researched it afterwards.
20
It's only when I got here I was
So
So it's very much limited knowledge that
21
people have when they come as new Canadians.
22
And youth and women, I think those are the most
23
vulnerable areas.
24
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
25
MR. PABLA:
How is your group funded?
Most of the funding -- like, I have two
Gurpreet Pabla
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1
positions.
2
WorkSafeBC for those 10 hours, but the other 10 or
3
28 hours I am working with legal advocacy program.
4
That program is funded by Law Foundation for farm
5
workers, all the legal issues that we have for farm
6
workers.
7
8
9
One, as I told you, is funded by
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
advocacy, you're funded how many hours?
MR. PABLA:
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
11
MR. PABLA:
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
MR. PABLA:
14
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
15
MR. PABLA:
16
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
17
MR. PABLA:
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
19
MR. PABLA:
21
10?
28?
28.
And 28 hours per week?
Yes.
Okay.
And what was the second one?
WorkSafe, that we just started now.
Yes.
WorkSafe?
They have funded 10 hours a week.
Okay.
Thank you.
So getting all the training from Law
Foundation from legal advocacy program.
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Yes.
It's the Law Foundation that
22
funds the legal advocacy.
23
you.
24
25
Legal
Legal advocacy program funded 28 hours.
10
20
Could you pause for a minute.
Right.
Okay.
Thank
Mr. Paul.
MR. PAUL:
Good afternoon.
And thank you for inviting me.
Arthur Paul
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1
It was great to see an e-mail in the mail saying,
2
hey, you'd like to hear me speak.
3
4
5
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
8
9
We
appreciate it.
MR. PAUL:
6
7
Thank you for appearing.
My staff just go, let him talk all day.
What I'd like to talk about is --
MR. DOUST:
Well, I'm not going to let you talk all day.
I'll give you 15 minutes and that's it.
MR. PAUL:
Darn it.
10
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
11
MR. PAUL:
Go for it.
So today -- my name is Arthur Paul.
I am the
12
regional manager for the Lower Mainland for the
13
Native Courtworker and Counselling Association of
14
British Columbia.
15
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
16
MR. PAUL:
17
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
18
MR. PAUL:
19
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
20
I'd like to think so.
22
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
25
He promised me, actually, that
I would hear from you -MR. PAUL:
24
He may not think so but you do.
Exactly.
21
23
Are you Gordon's boss?
Yes.
-- every time he was in front of me,
which was, I think, four times.
MR. PAUL:
Yeah.
I'm only lucky enough just to be in one
because they said -- and I only had 15 minutes
Arthur Paul
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1
but ...
Mr. Breaker will be actually doing a
2
30-minute presentation in Chilliwack.
3
actually sent him my outline here.
4
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
5
MR. PAUL:
I've
Okay.
What I'm going to be talking about today
6
specifically is just the Surrey area.
7
wanted to try to stick to our local area.
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
MR. PAUL:
Mr. Breaker
Yes.
One of the things that we specifically find
10
with legal aid is the loss of children.
11
the major point of our -- the loss of children
12
and --
13
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
14
MR. PAUL:
And that's
Child Protection Act.
-- Child protection issues.
Exactly.
And I --
15
talking with my courtworker this afternoon, we were
16
trying to get rid of the word custody, which is
17
wonderful.
18
concern here.
19
But loss of children is our greatest
We do have a good working relationship with
20
legal aid, with the legal aid -- the legal aid
21
lawyers who are contracted with legal aid.
22
always indicate that we'd love to see more, we'd
23
love to be a part of the training.
24
of the awareness of two legal aid lawyers and
25
lawyers who actually apply for -- apply for the
We
We are a part
Arthur Paul
1
Page 153
contract.
2
We're very lucky to have lawyers who actually
3
have gone to the bench and recognized the services
4
that the native courtworkers provide, and that's a
5
major help and I think that also helps legal aid.
6
And we provide services with legal aid.
7
I think -- one of the reasons I said custody
8
or the fear of child apprehension is the majority
9
of -- I think the greatest fear that Aboriginal
10
people have is it starts with the police.
11
I know that has nothing to do with legal aid, but
12
it does have to do with the issues once it hits
13
court because police officers are used to actually
14
enforce the apprehension of our children in
15
residential school.
16
And
Secondly, the courts were actually given the
17
authority to actually apprehend or take our
18
children in custody and place them in residential
19
schools, so the fear of court is there.
20
Aboriginals come to us, that's specifically what
21
they're coming to us for, is to actually act on
22
their behalf or speak on their behalf and actually
23
support them in the courtroom.
24
even with our -- our legal aid lawyers who are
25
empathetic to the issue.
And when
And with talking --
But still Aboriginal
Arthur Paul
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1
individuals would still like to have a courtworker
2
standing with them.
3
So that's the greatest fear that we find with
4
Aboriginal people here in the Surrey area.
And you
5
wouldn't think so with being such a large area and
6
a good population base.
7
would be a key, but it isn't.
And I think education
8
A second area that we have actually talked
9
about this morning was -- was the mental health
10
issues.
11
do assessments of Aboriginal people or any
12
individual, and I'm not saying that it should be,
13
but I'm saying that legal aid should be given at
14
least the opportunity of having resources to have
15
individuals assessed because there are quite a few
16
in our area.
17
mental issue or an addiction.
18
that that's the responsibility of legal aid; we're
19
saying that could be a resource that could assist
20
legal aid lawyers.
21
And it's not legal aid's responsibility to
Our stats indicate 97 percent have a
And we're not saying
One of the areas we talked, again, about was
22
the legal aid appeal.
We think a legal aid appeal
23
is a good one.
24
filling out the application with the client,
25
courtworkers have a pretty good training from
The application -- when we're
Arthur Paul
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1
legal aid to be able to help assess whether the
2
application will be approved or not approved.
3
get a pretty good idea, so when we know that the
4
application isn't going to be approved we start
5
developing the legal aid appeal process
6
immediately.
7
We
And it does take a little -- it's a little bit
8
difficult.
You wouldn't -- again, you wouldn't
9
think so in the Vancouver area or in the Surrey
10
area.
11
able to get access to a telephone, access to
12
internet.
13
strictly straight through the courtworker in the
14
courthouses.
15
You'd think that Aboriginal people would be
The majority of the time it's usually
So -- but the legal aid application, appeal
16
process itself, once the courtworker's taking it on
17
is okay.
18
a longer period of time for those who live --
19
living in an urban area.
20
it goes directly to the courtworker.
21
I want to go back to 2007.
So we're supporting it, but it does take
And, again, like I said,
The native
22
courtworkers had a project with legal aid.
It was
23
called the Legal Aid Application Project, which
24
I was actually a part of and some of my staff were
25
a part of.
And that was throughout the rural areas
Arthur Paul
Page 156
1
of British Columbia, up north mostly.
You may have
2
heard it from Pam Sekora, our other manager there.
3
That application -- it showed our support for
4
it, because we recognize that there's a need for
5
the applications process to go through a little bit
6
faster.
7
the applications voluntarily, and we submitted them
8
back.
9
up in the rural area.
Courtworkers took on the applications, did
A lot of problems, though, because of being
Access to internet, access
10
to telephones, all of that was a huge issue.
11
the project didn't meet our expectations and didn't
12
meet the expectations of legal aid.
13
And
And why I brought that up is because I'd love
14
to see the Legal Aid Application Project in an
15
urban setting, not just in a rural setting.
16
I think we could actually expedite the application
17
process a lot faster versus being just in the
18
courtroom.
19
to legal aid.
20
And I think that's how we show support
The second part I wanted to talk about is
21
legal aid and public education.
We're saying that
22
the legal aid publication -- education was
23
excellent.
24
always larger.
25
more and we should have more money specifically
A little small, it could have been
Like, we always say there should be
Arthur Paul
Page 157
1
for public legal education.
2
happen, it's the same as with the Aboriginal
3
Department, it seems to be cut first or feels the
4
pinch first.
5
But when cuts start to
It almost feels that way.
I understand with legal aid and talking with
6
them that other governments are cut as well, but it
7
just seems that Aboriginals are cut right out.
8
in this last little while that's exactly what was
9
reduced.
And
10
But I think if we brought public legal education
11
back, it would actually assist in actually expediting
12
the public legal access applications because we'd
13
be able to do more public education forums, and
14
I think that was the area that we really needed to
15
work together as a joint project, and it -- it
16
wasn't happening.
17
the legal aid would have been a little better, but
18
again a loss of the Aboriginal Department, which
19
was one worker, we could have actually probably
20
improved public legal education.
21
I think more communication from
The native courtworkers have always supported
22
the legal aid with the legal aid -- legal Aboriginal
23
offices throughout the province.
24
first brought them forward, we were the ones
25
that -- probably one of the first agencies to
And when they
Arthur Paul
Page 158
1
actually put letters of support to them.
2
lost them, it was a great loss to the Province of
3
BC and to legal aid, as well as our Aboriginal
4
people.
5
When we
We -- personally and with my staff members,
6
we support -- supported the publication of a report
7
for building bridges, improving legal services to
8
Aboriginal people.
9
really good written report.
That was an exceptional or a
Just, again, it comes
10
back to the concept that reductions do have to
11
happen, we recognize that.
12
meeting would happen to when we could actually
13
talk about solutions and how to work the solutions
14
together would have been by far better than just
15
actually making the reductions.
But I think if a joint
16
We just kind of got a notice in the e-mail and
17
saying you're being reduced, and it would have been
18
nice if we had an alternative to speak about
19
solutions, to come and develop solutions with legal
20
aid.
21
Again, the publication of legal aid that was
22
submitted and developed a few years back was
23
building bridges and approving legal services to
24
Aboriginal people, but they also had another
25
booklet, which is Aboriginal Peoples and the Law in
Arthur Paul
Page 159
1
British Columbia.
2
All advocates -- and we keep pushing all advocates
3
should be reading the booklet and we support that.
4
Exceptional well-written book.
What would have been really nice is if legal
5
aid would have actually developed a training
6
department or actually -- lawyers would actually
7
come out and train.
8
legal aid lawyers who are contracted to try to, you
9
know, take time out of their day to come down and
10
train courtworkers or other advocates throughout
11
the province, but it is a joint -- it would have
12
been an exceptional joint program.
13
would have actually helped a lot of the advocates
14
throughout the province, not just Aboriginals.
15
It was a great self-help tool to some of the
16
Aboriginals who basically really didn't need the
17
support of a courtworker.
18
It is a lot to ask of the
And I think it
One of the areas that we did talk about this
19
morning concerning just this area alone was the
20
need for more PADU reporting.
21
responsibility of legal aid, but it would be a
22
nice -- a nice -- not direction to provide to the
23
legal aid lawyers to say, you know, you -- with an
24
Aboriginal person it would be very nice if you
25
asked for more PADU reporting.
It is not a
That would be a
Arthur Paul
Page 160
1
nice thing.
We're not saying it should be done,
2
but we attempt to ask for that as much as possible.
3
There was some questions that the public
4
commission had asked, and I tried to answer some
5
of those, but again, Mr. Breaker will be answering
6
those and --
7
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
8
MR. PAUL:
9
Okay.
-- I'm hoping that he'll do that.
One of the consequence that I really wanted to
10
speak to was how should legal aid be funded in
11
British Columbia?
12
every municipality throughout the province, and
13
I believe that every municipality, city council
14
would actually be probably not object to actually
15
providing dollars from city council towards legal
16
aid dollars because we consider that part of public
17
safety.
18
that would probably be one area that they could
19
actually look at getting some funding.
20
I believe that legal aid is in
And I think if legal aid took that step,
That's pretty much my submissions.
I tried to
21
keep it as short as possible.
22
love to talk more, but I know Mr. Breaker will be
23
speaking a lot better, more eloquent than I will
24
be -- than I have.
25
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
It would be a -- I'd
Well, thank you very much, Mr. Paul.
Mychael Gleeson
1
MR. PAUL:
2
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
3
DR. GLEESON:
Page 161
Thank you.
Dr. Gleeson.
Good afternoon.
My name is Mychael Gleeson,
4
and I am Mychael Company.
5
I'm listed as Mychael & Company.
6
unfortunately, & Company.
7
It's interesting that
There is no,
What I chose to do today --
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
9
DR. GLEESON:
Sorry about that.
What I chose to do today was to give you a
10
very quick thumbnail sketch of what a typical week
11
looks like for me.
12
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
13
DR. GLEESON:
14
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
15
DR. GLEESON:
What do you do?
How are you --
I'm a psychologist -Yes.
-- since 1977 with the Canadian
16
Psychological Association, a fellow with the
17
American Orthopsychiatric Association since 1984,
18
and I'm a sole practitioner.
19
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Yes.
And is your practice somehow
20
oriented in a manner that gets you involved with
21
legal problems of your patients?
22
DR. GLEESON:
Yes, sir.
In 1980 I probably appeared
23
before His Honour Judge Clare in provincial court
24
in excess of a hundred times because there weren't
25
lawyers who could act for my clients and patients.
Mychael Gleeson
Page 162
1
And so with the grace of His Honour Judge Clare
2
I was allowed to appear.
3
I was able to talk to the bench about the
4
special-needs person, the marginalized, the
5
elderly.
6
needs being diminished capacity, the special needs
7
being psychiatric patients.
8
9
And by doing that, I --
The special needs being -- the special
The five that I picked up this morning off my
desk were the five thickest files.
10
easiest ones to reach.
11
Edward has no family.
12
Canadian army veteran.
13
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
14
DR. GLEESON:
15
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
16
DR. GLEESON:
They were the
And I'll start with Edward.
He's 74 years old.
He is a
What geographical area?
He lives in New Westminster, sir.
Thank you.
And my practice is in New Westminster.
17
Edward lives in a crack house.
He entertains
18
entrepreneurial women who work primarily at
19
night.
20
entertains such ladies.
21
decided that he must have money so they started to
22
bang on his door.
This annoyed him so he went to
23
the dollar store.
He bought a plastic toy gun.
24
covered it with aluminum tape, went to the door and
25
explained that he was going to kill these people.
I was told to be tactful.
In his home he
Other people in the house
He
Mychael Gleeson
Page 163
1
They called the police.
2
assault and uttering threats and, surprisingly, it
3
was difficult for me to find him a lawyer.
4
Edward was charged with
We've been able to resolve Edward's case
5
because we were able to find a lawyer who would
6
take it on because he thought it was interesting
7
and he liked Edward.
8
9
My second patient, David.
our office.
David came into
He has three kids ages three, two and
10
eight months.
11
report.
12
primary caregiver of his three little kids, but his
13
wife is leaving him, to which he thinks that's not
14
a loss but she's taking the youngsters.
15
I help David?
16
Little girls.
He needs a custody/access
He works half time because he's the
How do
They say to me, okay, send him down for
17
mediation.
The problem with mediation is that no
18
one will assess children.
19
those kids are safe.
20
tell the courts whether or not those children are
21
safe.
No one will know whether
A custody/access report will
22
William is in my office yet again.
23
has been in and out of my office since 1983.
24
in his late 70s.
25
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
William
He's
Could you -- could you pause for a
Mychael Gleeson
1
moment?
2
DR. GLEESON:
3
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
4
DR. GLEESON:
5
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
6
I'm sorry.
-- would involve interviews of the
children or assessments of the children?
DR. GLEESON:
8
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
10
You said a custody/access report --
A custody/access report.
7
9
Page 164
Yes, sir.
Whereas sending him for mediation
does not.
DR. GLEESON:
The children are not even seen.
Mediators
11
don't even phone up the local hospitals and find
12
out if those kids have ever been in the emergency
13
ward.
14
When I take a kid's file into my office, I ask
15
to see the birth certificate.
16
is listed as the mother and the father -- the
17
biological mother and father.
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
19
DR. GLEESON:
I want to know who
Yes.
I run that through the computer at Royal
20
Columbian to see if that child has ever come in
21
with a spiral fracture or something else that makes
22
me hide under my bed late at night.
23
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
24
DR. GLEESON:
25
Yes.
William is currently in my office yet again.
He's in his late 70s.
He's a very well-worn
Mychael Gleeson
Page 165
1
gentleman, formerly a logger.
2
He lives in a dumpster.
3
third dumpster from the left at the arena, but
4
there is a new strip mall that's being torn down
5
and is vacant so he lives there now.
6
He's an alcoholic.
Historically, it was the
William watches television at London Drugs and
7
he saw a program on mercury and phosphorus in tuna
8
fish.
9
Foods, he bought 25 cans -- and he got the can
So when tuna fish went on sale at Save-On
10
opener from my office -- he decided that he would
11
open them in the dark in his dumpster to make sure
12
there was no phosphorus in his tuna.
13
the evening that he was going to chow down on tuna
14
surprise, a young man who was dumpster-diving
15
heaved himself into William's dumpster looking for
16
pop bottles and beer bottles.
17
the can opener, causing a 6-inch gash on the guy's
18
forehead, 26 stitches, was charged with assault
19
with a weapon, assault causing bodily harm and
20
threatening.
21
Unfortunately,
William hit him with
Thankfully, it was a police officer that
22
I know who simply dropped William off at my house
23
where my practice is because I can't afford rent
24
anywhere else.
25
time finding a lawyer for William.
Surprisingly, I'm having a hard
Mychael Gleeson
1
Page 166
My -- one of these files on my desk is
2
Richard.
3
late teens.
4
bright, he's sensitive, he's also schizophrenic.
5
Richard's dear wife is schizophrenic.
6
lovely person.
7
of the two sons who are in their late teens.
8
9
Richard has two kids who are in their
Richard is a very Christian man.
She's a
She's a Christian gal, the mother
Both Richard and his wife decided that Jesus
had told hem to stop taking their medication and so
10
they did.
11
people upstairs called the police.
12
attended.
13
violence and uttering threats.
14
performance for Richard.
15
as to whether or not it actually happened.
16
He's
They started a rumble together.
The
The police
They charged Richard with domestic
This was a repeat
No one spoke to the boys
When I spoke to Richard in the cells he said,
17
ask my two sons, they were there; this didn't
18
happen.
I spoke to his kids, they said it didn't
19
happen.
They said mom was having a hard time,
20
she had seen something on television, she had
21
personalized it, she had reported it to the police.
22
Because this was a repeat performance, Richard was
23
booked.
24
25
Richard refused to allow me to ask prosecutors
in New Westminster to speak to his sons.
Richard
Mychael Gleeson
Page 167
1
did a year of reporting probation, he lost his job,
2
and now is having a terribly difficult time finding
3
anything.
4
school.
5
offence, he has no chance.
6
Historically, he was a janitor at a
Now with a criminal record and a repeat
Edith is my last patient that I'm bringing to
7
you through your mind's eye.
8
She's actually 94 this month.
9
bridge.
Edith is in her 90s.
She -- she plays
Now, Edith and her three bridge buddies
10
used to play bridge and have a glass of wine; they
11
now have a lot of wine and might play bridge.
12
Edith went out not realizing that there was
13
a slight dribble in her sink -- her kitchen sink.
14
lives in a nice apartment block in New Westminster.
15
A margarine top careened into the sink, stopped the
16
sink; she had a flood.
17
10:30, having left at 7 o'clock, she found the lady
18
next door and the landlord with a wet vac dealing
19
with her carpet.
When she came home at
20
This is where it becomes interesting.
She
21
phoned me that night and said, you need to come
22
over here.
23
life.
24
And she said, I just gave my landlord a cheque for
25
$6,000 because he said I had ruined apartments
I said, sure, why not; I don't have a
So I went over and they were cleaning up.
She
Mychael Gleeson
Page 168
1
all the way down.
2
across the hall, you attended this, what -- what's
3
the story here?
4
bit of water coming out, and Edith and I had
5
exchanged keys for exactly this kind of situation.
6
And so I came over, emptied her sink, turned the
7
water off, mopped up what I could, and she said
8
I don't believe there's any damage.
9
So I said to the lady who lived
And she said, well, I saw a little
Edith wouldn't talk to me for several days
10
because she was embarrassed.
11
When I actually caught up with her because I saw
12
her in Horton's while I was trying to hide out from
13
my patients, she said to me, I've been evicted,
14
this cheque is for $6,000, that's my entire savings
15
out of my pension, I don't know what to do.
16
I whistled into the Royal Bank of Canada on the
17
Monday and said that I wanted them to ring Edith.
18
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
19
DR. GLEESON:
You wanted what?
She was also evicted.
Sorry.
I want the bank -- they actually have a
20
remarkable thing.
New Westminster Royal Bank of
21
Canada actually has an elder abuse law.
22
not believe it.
23
the phone and will you ask her if she wants this
24
cheque stopped?
25
a real name.
I could
So I said, will you reach Edith on
So Sylvia -- actually someone with
Sylvia phoned her and they decide to
Mychael Gleeson
1
2
Page 169
stop the cheque.
The landlord came in with the cheque.
Edith
3
[sic] said to the landlord, give me a minute, let
4
me just take this into the back.
5
Royal Bank of Canada, there is no back in the
6
Royal Bank of Canada.
7
photocopied the cheque, came back to the manager,
8
returned the cheque to him and said, I'm sorry,
9
there's a hold on this account.
10
11
If you know the
Edith -- Sylvia roared in,
But now we have
the cheque.
I call that attempted fraud; the police call
12
it a civil matter.
And, surprisingly, I can't find
13
a lawyer to help Edith.
14
So you've now met five of my patients.
15
the question about legal aid is that what I have
16
done for the last 30 years of my practice is that
17
I have found lawyers in the New Westminster and
18
Maple Ridge area and I will ring them.
19
promise to do everything, including wash their
20
BMW if they will help one of my people.
21
is for the marginalized, it's for the special
22
needs, it's for the elderly.
23
three little kids ages three, two and eight months.
24
Those little kids need to be heard.
25
And
And I will
Legal aid
It's for Dave Smith's
In the days of Lorne Clare on the bench in
Mychael Gleeson
Page 170
1
provincial court, I could go in there.
2
talk to Lorne Clare, I could explain what was
3
happening.
4
of the law courts has changed dramatically.
5
Actually -- I'm in the middle a trial now.
6
needed a note from the Public Commission on Legal
7
Aid to get out of court when I'm not testifying
8
because I might be testifying because the judge
9
thought I might be necessary and he wanted a note
10
I can't do that any longer.
I could
The face
I actually
to make sure I was really here.
11
The world has changed, and it is changing very
12
quickly.
13
not going to be helped.
14
I have visions of all of them wanting to live with
15
me.
16
I currently ring -- since many of them have call
17
display, they are no longer there to take my calls.
18
Secretaries now know the call block is in
19
New Westminster so they won't take my calls.
20
And as legal aid shrinks, my people are
I hope to retire some day.
I have visions of many of the lawyers that
I'm still able to strong-arm the odd lawyer.
21
Several months ago a child was very badly burned in
22
a fire in Surrey.
23
to me.
24
and every one of them attended, each and every
25
one of them knew that this would be a terrible,
It was a child who was referred
And I rang six different lawyers, and each
Mychael Gleeson
Page 171
1
terrible court case to work.
2
pro bono.
3
children and the other kids in the family with toys
4
and support and attention.
5
need legal aid.
6
and until we do that we're leaving them behind as a
7
society.
8
9
10
Each of them provided the family and the
I love lawyers, but we
We need to help the marginalized,
It's --
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
badly burned.
DR. GLEESON:
Each of them did it
I'm sorry, Doctor.
The child who was
Was it --
It was in a house fire.
There was a
11
custody/access issue.
The father got -- got
12
permission for an access visit and, surprisingly --
13
and one isn't allowed to make assumptions -- the
14
motel burnt down where he was visiting with his
15
children.
16
access visit, just random --
Having, I'm sure, nothing to do with the
17
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
18
DR. GLEESON:
Just an unfortunate coincident.
With gasoline in the house fire.
Yes, sir.
19
Reminiscent, if people remember, of the Paul
20
Watch matter when in 1980 on an access visit with
21
no custody/access report being made Paul murdered
22
his three children and then himself.
23
Tony Beecroft has said of such tragedies the
24
problem is adults always get the order wrong.
25
Beecroft was then the head coroner on the Olson
Then Coroner
Tony
Mychael Gleeson
Page 172
1
matter, and I came to know Tony very well and knew
2
him very well until his death.
3
We're not doing enough, and legal aid is the
4
way that we can do it.
For David Smith, if he goes
5
to the people who are writing custody and access
6
reports, he needs $8,500 to talk to psychologists
7
who are doing custody/access reports.
8
when I was doing them on a legal aid budget, the
9
lawyer would say to me, you got 50 bucks for
In the 80s
10
talking to me, you got 500 bucks for talking to the
11
family and the kids and that includes testifying,
12
do you want the file or not?
13
a four-year-old?
14
decisions because they were based on the children.
15
And the ethic in those days hasn't changed.
16
in the best interests of the children.
17
aid used to do that.
18
doing my reports.
19
How do you say no to
And for 550 bucks we got good
It is
And legal
Legal aid used to pay me for
I would say of my own Edward, yes, Edward is
20
guilty of uttering threats.
A, it was a plastic
21
gun covered in tinfoil and he was terrified.
22
judge who sits on this matter will not hear that.
23
They won't hear who Edward is, they won't
24
understand who he is, they won't know about his war
25
record, they won't know that he is one of the truly
The
Mychael Gleeson
Page 173
1
loonies.
2
who Edward is.
3
justice fairly, it can't be justice at the cost of
4
knowing who that gentleman is.
5
And although that's not a defence; it is
And if we are going to dispense
There are creative solutions that will help
6
Edward in life and protect society, and we can do
7
that when legal aid can start to say to people like
8
Mychael Gleeson, get a report on this guy, I want
9
to know if there are priors, I want to know if he's
10
ever hurt anybody, I want to know if his only crime
11
is dealing with the hookers -- oh, the ladies --
12
the entrepreneurial evening ladies of Kingsway.
13
I want to know if this guy is a threat.
14
be able to take that to some judge on the bench.
15
I want to sit in on a family trial where I can say
16
to judges that will listen, this child is at risk.
17
I recently finished a case.
I want to
Mom met a guy on
18
the internet.
He had a terrible need to come to
19
Canada.
20
when he found out she had a 12-year-old daughter.
21
When my business partner Googled -- my business
22
partner's an architect.
23
record check, for 55 bucks he could find out --
24
using his Visa card, not mine -- whether this guy
25
had a record.
That need became increasingly stronger
When he Googled criminal
The guy had a record as a pedophile
Mychael Gleeson
Page 174
1
in Texas.
I was told that I could not bring that
2
out in court.
3
you cannot unring the bell so it just slipped.
But as I was taught a long time ago,
4
That child was never alone with her mother
5
again in the presence of the boyfriend, dad got
6
custody, and the person who paid my bill was the
7
lawyer who got stiffed for eight grand on this
8
because nobody had the money to pay.
9
okay, that's the cost of practicing law.
And he said,
And, yes,
10
that guy does drive a BMW, and yes, I did wash it
11
for six months.
12
kid is currently at Simon Fraser in the teaching
13
program and that's what it's about.
14
And it was worth it because that
And legal aid can make that happen.
The
15
gentleman who just spoke, he's talking about
16
Aboriginal persons.
17
who want desperately to go into the program at
18
BCIT, we have openings.
19
going to spend the time -- I'm out of time -- to
20
find the paperwork and do the paperwork to put it
21
together to get a file for that young man or woman
22
to get them into a program.
23
Legal aid used to do that.
24
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
25
DR. GLEESON:
We have got Aboriginal people
And we have nobody who's
And that's criminal.
Thank you very much, Doctor.
Thank you, sir.
Mychael Gleeson
1
Page 175
COMMISSIONER DOUST:
Well, I want to thank everyone who
2
took the time and the trouble to make the
3
presentations.
4
went into them.
5
I will review the presentations that I've heard
6
today and they will all be taken into account.
7
It's obvious that a lot of thought
I can assure all of you that
At some point in time, I will eventually issue
8
a report, and that will be made available to the
9
public and I'm sure you will all read it with
10
interest.
Thank you all very much for your
11
assistance.
12
(PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 3:48 P.M.)
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Mychael Gleeson
1
2
Reporter's Certification:
I, Edith McNary, RCR; RMR, CRR, Official
3
Reporter in the Province of British Columbia,
4
Canada, BCSRA No. 123, do hereby certify:
5
That the proceedings were taken down by me in
6
shorthand at the time and place herein set forth
7
and thereafter transcribed, and the same is a true
8
and accurate and complete transcript of said
9
proceedings to the best of my skill and ability.
10
11
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed
my name and seal this 11th day of October, 2010.
12
13
14
15
___________________________
16
Edith McNary, RCR; RMR, CRR
17
Official Reporter
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 176
i
PROCEEDINGS AT PUBLIC COMMISSION ON LEGAL AID
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2010
SURREY ARTS CENTRE
PROCEEDINGS
PAGE
Leonard Doust, Commissioner
1
Allan Parker, Access Pro Bono Society of BC
3
Kamaljit Lehal, Ending Violence Association of B.C.
17
Susan Sellick, Newton Advocacy Group Society
47
Alison Brewin, West Coast LEAF
51
Sarah Khan, BC Public Interest Advocacy Centre
63
Susan Henry, First United Church Mission
72
Dan Sudeyko, Legal Services Society Agent for the
North Shore/Sunshine Coast/Squamish-Whistler-Pemberton
87
Mandy Sidhu, South Fraser Legal Resource Centre
105
Robert Bellows, barrister & solicitor
113
Amita Vulimiri, recent UBC law school graduate
126
Jodie Gauthier, recent UBC law graduate
127
Gurpreet Pabla, PICS Society
136
Arthur Paul, Native Courtworker and Counselling
Association of BC
150
Dr. Mychael Gleeson, Mychael Company
161
i
$
$2.20 [1] - 61:11
$3.56 [1] - 61:10
$40 [1] - 115:19
$5 [1] - 67:7
$6,000 [2] - 167:25,
168:14
$7.42 [1] - 61:9
$8,500 [1] - 172:6
0
00 [1] - 47:23
1
1 [3] - 79:17, 81:10,
102:6
1,450 [1] - 117:15
10 [9] - 34:15, 81:6,
139:16, 146:5, 146:7,
150:2, 150:8, 150:17
100 [1] - 118:4
10:04 [1] - 1:4
10:30 [1] - 167:17
11 [1] - 30:22
115 [1] - 115:6
11th [1] - 176:11
12 [1] - 97:8
12-year-old [1] - 173:20
123 [1] - 176:4
125 [1] - 73:10
12:06 [1] - 87:6
13 [2] - 34:9, 72:16
130 [1] - 115:6
14 [1] - 34:15
15 [15] - 3:1, 10:23,
10:24, 85:15, 104:3,
108:19, 109:1, 115:8,
136:2, 139:23, 144:14,
144:20, 146:5, 151:8,
151:25
15,000 [2] - 10:25, 75:15
15-minute [1] - 113:12
16 [7] - 81:9, 113:10,
119:20, 122:20,
122:22, 122:23,
125:17
160,000 [1] - 84:10
17 [2] - 60:4, 60:6
18-hour [1] - 118:15
19 [3] - 89:2, 108:20,
109:2
1974 [1] - 57:23
1977 [1] - 161:15
1978 [1] - 105:23
1980 [2] - 161:22,
171:20
1980s [1] - 73:12
1983 [1] - 163:23
1984 [1] - 161:17
1987 [2] - 136:16,
136:22
1988 [1] - 87:17
1990s [1] - 79:9
1991 [2] - 31:8, 47:14
1994 [3] - 113:7, 115:2,
119:20
1997 [1] - 72:16
1:30 [1] - 87:5
1:32 [1] - 87:7
2
2 [2] - 79:24, 81:11
20 [9] - 3:21, 45:18,
45:21, 45:22, 58:7,
88:7, 88:12, 104:4,
144:20
200 [1] - 17:15
2000 [2] - 4:16, 117:15
2001 [1] - 67:25
2002 [9] - 4:17, 5:8,
5:13, 10:9, 10:19,
67:25, 80:23, 89:3,
135:1
2003 [1] - 4:2
2004 [1] - 51:21
2007 [3] - 4:2, 155:21
2008 [4] - 72:21, 96:25,
97:16, 108:17
2009 [10] - 4:23, 69:3,
96:12, 96:25, 97:6,
97:16, 106:14, 108:16,
108:19
2010 [4] - 1:1, 97:6,
108:20, 176:11
21 [1] - 89:20
21-month [1] - 34:22
22 [1] - 81:9
222 [1] - 113:22
23 [2] - 78:23, 97:18
25 [2] - 122:4, 165:9
250 [1] - 78:24
26 [2] - 81:10, 165:18
263,000 [1] - 83:2
28 [5] - 150:3, 150:9,
150:10, 150:11,
150:12
2:39 [1] - 136:3
2:55 [1] - 136:4
3
3 [2] - 80:13, 81:20
30 [4] - 10:10, 126:17,
169:16
30-day [1] - 25:8
30-minute [1] - 152:2
300 [2] - 4:25, 78:24
306,000 [1] - 83:3
31 [1] - 3:21
35 [6] - 60:11, 83:19,
84:1, 113:4, 114:21,
122:18
3:00 [1] - 136:2
3:48 [1] - 175:12
4
4 [2] - 80:20, 108:18
40 [5] - 46:2, 81:15,
84:20, 126:17
48 [2] - 25:12, 81:14
48-hour [1] - 25:6
5
5 [1] - 80:20
5,000 [3] - 76:24, 76:25,
115:23
50 [1] - 172:9
500 [2] - 31:11, 172:10
51 [1] - 87:17
52 [1] - 10:11
55 [1] - 173:23
550 [1] - 172:13
552 [1] - 97:14
6
6 [1] - 47:23
6-inch [1] - 165:17
60s [1] - 83:15
627 [1] - 97:6
67 [2] - 82:23, 82:24
672 [1] - 109:3
7
7 [1] - 167:17
70s [2] - 163:24, 164:25
71 [1] - 83:1
712 [2] - 97:1, 97:5
74 [1] - 162:11
750,000 [2] - 47:19,
47:20
758 [1] - 97:13
8
8 [3] - 1:1, 60:5, 109:1
80 [1] - 40:14
80s [2] - 57:22, 172:7
838 [1] - 97:6
84 [1] - 83:1
85 [2] - 11:8, 40:14
9
9 [1] - 122:13
900 [1] - 117:16
90s [1] - 167:7
937 [2] - 97:1, 97:5
94 [1] - 167:8
95 [1] - 65:6
97 [1] - 154:16
9th [1] - 59:19
A
A.M [1] - 1:4
Abbotsford [1] - 141:3
ability [10] - 13:4, 21:6,
27:22, 48:11, 50:9,
86:16, 95:4, 98:8,
134:6, 176:9
able [30] - 19:5, 22:23,
26:17, 28:4, 40:17,
41:19, 48:3, 48:21,
48:22, 50:17, 70:2,
71:1, 71:4, 79:22,
99:22, 103:11, 118:14,
121:9, 123:6, 134:9,
135:12, 142:3, 155:1,
155:11, 157:13, 162:3,
163:4, 163:5, 170:20,
173:14
Aboriginal [17] - 103:2,
103:20, 153:9, 153:25,
154:4, 154:11, 155:10,
157:2, 157:18, 157:22,
158:3, 158:8, 158:24,
158:25, 159:24,
174:16
Aboriginals [4] - 153:20,
157:7, 159:14, 159:16
abruptly [1] - 8:17
absence [2] - 30:12,
48:7
absolute [1] - 113:18
absolutely [6] - 23:25,
27:1, 114:3, 121:16,
125:14
abundantly [1] - 42:2
abuse [5] - 18:24, 19:21,
27:22, 107:25, 168:21
Abuse [1] - 62:19
abused [4] - 17:24,
19:12, 21:9, 24:2
Abuser [1] - 62:20
abusive [16] - 19:4,
19:13, 19:15, 21:17,
22:1, 22:13, 22:25,
24:4, 24:12, 24:22,
26:6, 26:9, 27:23,
30:6, 30:15, 108:5
accept [5] - 7:6, 49:23,
62:11, 92:8, 146:18
acceptable [1] - 115:16
accepting [1] - 117:14
access [36] - 12:11,
12:18, 13:4, 21:6,
24:18, 27:22, 28:3,
38:13, 50:7, 52:16,
53:12, 54:11, 54:19,
56:2, 62:14, 64:11,
64:13, 71:20, 90:15,
92:4, 92:14, 105:4,
106:17, 110:22, 135:4,
147:21, 147:23,
155:11, 156:9, 157:12,
171:12, 171:16,
171:20, 172:5
Access [9] - 4:4, 4:9,
4:19, 5:1, 9:6, 16:8,
23:6, 88:21, 107:2
accesses [1] - 111:8
accessible [3] - 29:7,
81:5, 133:2
accessing [3] - 129:12,
129:13, 131:20
accommodate [2] 128:20, 141:13
accompany [1] - 111:11
accomplish [1] - 16:17
according [3] - 55:24,
142:19, 146:8
accordingly [1] - 93:8
account [4] - 2:12, 7:6,
169:9, 175:6
accounts [1] - 19:18
accumulate [1] - 100:17
accurate [1] - 176:8
accused [36] - 32:2,
32:11, 32:12, 32:17,
32:21, 33:5, 33:9,
33:12, 34:16, 35:3,
35:20, 35:24, 35:25,
36:21, 37:3, 37:7,
37:9, 37:19, 37:23,
38:5, 38:18, 39:3,
39:17, 43:2, 43:12,
43:16, 43:25, 44:5,
44:6, 44:21, 45:6,
46:14, 91:17, 102:10,
116:10, 116:17
accused's [2] - 32:14,
44:12
acquire [1] - 84:8
acquired [6] - 77:6,
84:7, 84:8, 84:12,
84:13, 84:15
acquitted [1] - 91:18
act [4] - 35:21, 56:24,
153:21, 161:25
Act [6] - 31:8, 56:16,
88:10, 88:15, 90:19,
ii
152:13
action [1] - 57:2
Action [1] - 51:19
Activity [1] - 60:18
activity [2] - 61:3,
102:11
actual [5] - 144:9, 145:9,
145:10, 145:24,
146:21
add [4] - 7:13, 34:25,
42:1, 112:6
added [1] - 125:5
addiction [1] - 154:17
addition [10] - 19:24,
72:18, 78:15, 78:16,
88:22, 89:24, 103:20,
128:16, 132:10,
134:21
additional [5] - 39:2,
89:21, 132:21, 135:5,
139:23
address [10] - 3:18,
31:2, 37:11, 52:7,
62:2, 127:23, 128:21,
129:2, 131:7, 131:8
addressed [3] - 54:21,
131:10, 132:7
addressing [3] - 9:22,
51:24, 110:19
adequate [1] - 27:3
adequately [4] - 51:9,
67:21, 132:7, 134:7
adjourn [1] - 38:7
adjourned [1] - 34:19
ADJOURNED [1] 175:12
adjourning [1] - 40:6
adjournments [1] 39:10
administer [2] - 62:1,
74:4
administration [4] 89:7, 89:23, 93:22,
94:1
administrative [6] 30:24, 48:4, 73:24,
74:2, 74:10, 75:5
administrative-type [1]
- 73:24
admissions [2] - 36:4,
36:5
ads [1] - 83:23
Adult [1] - 79:10
adult [2] - 85:11, 90:20
adults [2] - 90:5, 171:24
advance [2] - 51:23,
55:16
advanced [1] - 80:16
advantage [2] - 98:6,
102:19
adversarial [1] - 35:7
adversely [1] - 34:24
advertise [1] - 11:11
advertising [2] - 142:12,
143:6
Advice [1] - 11:10
advice [22] - 4:20, 10:1,
11:8, 11:11, 11:21,
23:18, 23:21, 38:1,
44:19, 52:9, 58:9,
62:11, 68:3, 68:6,
74:8, 75:4, 97:25,
98:3, 98:12, 147:18,
148:13, 149:5
Advice-a-thon [1] 11:10
advised [2] - 3:3, 53:8
advisors [4] - 140:6,
145:4, 148:15, 148:16
Advocacy [6] - 47:12,
47:16, 63:9, 106:21,
127:8, 129:6
advocacy [18] - 47:17,
47:25, 48:1, 73:12,
73:13, 73:14, 76:17,
105:24, 106:20,
127:15, 129:6, 131:24,
140:24, 150:3, 150:8,
150:9, 150:20, 150:22
advocate [17] - 23:9,
47:21, 62:21, 67:5,
72:10, 72:15, 72:19,
73:20, 106:1, 106:11,
127:1, 134:23, 137:8,
137:11, 140:25,
143:10, 147:3
advocates [35] - 10:12,
47:20, 52:12, 53:5,
54:4, 64:3, 65:20,
67:14, 73:14, 74:17,
74:18, 77:4, 77:7,
78:11, 78:12, 82:9,
106:3, 106:6, 111:22,
112:3, 112:6, 129:13,
129:14, 132:22, 134:3,
138:15, 138:16,
138:19, 139:7, 143:19,
145:7, 159:2, 159:10,
159:13
advocating [2] - 42:13,
147:9
affected [3] - 35:17,
36:3, 71:18
affecting [3] - 48:7,
67:24, 86:16
affects [3] - 31:25,
34:24, 35:4
afford [8] - 6:5, 35:3,
38:19, 51:7, 55:13,
121:12, 137:19,
165:23
affordable [1] - 63:21
afraid [1] - 122:19
afternoon [6] - 23:7,
87:11, 105:17, 150:25,
152:15, 161:3
afternoons [1] - 73:16
afterwards [1] - 149:19
AG [1] - 57:23
AG's [1] - 57:1
Age [1] - 74:1
aged [1] - 81:9
agencies [6] - 12:7,
74:25, 89:14, 98:2,
134:4, 157:25
agency [10] - 26:11,
47:16, 47:17, 120:23,
121:2, 134:12, 134:18,
134:20, 135:2, 136:24
agenda [1] - 120:14
agent [4] - 89:3, 90:4,
93:25, 95:11
ages [2] - 163:9, 169:23
ago [9] - 64:16, 68:24,
77:10, 83:11, 84:1,
122:22, 129:22,
170:21, 174:2
agree [14] - 7:10, 29:24,
36:7, 36:15, 40:12,
41:1, 45:13, 47:5,
71:24, 86:22, 92:20,
111:17, 145:3
agreed [2] - 36:5, 53:22
agreeing [2] - 40:19,
40:20
agreement [3] - 37:19,
54:5, 131:22
agreements [5] - 35:9,
40:3, 53:16, 53:24,
54:1
agricultural [1] - 137:7
Aid [11] - 1:8, 1:13, 2:21,
51:20, 59:14, 59:17,
60:17, 108:15, 155:23,
156:14, 170:7
aid [208] - 1:15, 1:16,
1:20, 2:7, 3:8, 3:10,
5:10, 6:1, 6:4, 6:9,
6:17, 6:19, 7:24, 8:3,
8:11, 9:8, 9:23, 17:23,
18:10, 24:19, 25:14,
25:18, 25:20, 26:20,
27:15, 27:18, 28:10,
28:24, 29:3, 29:6,
29:7, 29:19, 31:3,
35:4, 35:17, 38:13,
38:23, 39:12, 43:11,
45:7, 48:7, 48:10,
51:8, 51:21, 52:7,
52:15, 54:8, 54:13,
55:10, 56:2, 56:11,
57:3, 57:15, 58:3,
60:22, 60:23, 61:12,
61:16, 61:19, 61:20,
62:10, 64:13, 64:17,
67:20, 69:1, 71:19,
72:18, 73:3, 73:6,
78:10, 82:7, 86:24,
86:25, 87:18, 88:1,
88:5, 88:25, 89:8,
89:9, 90:11, 90:25,
91:17, 92:3, 92:17,
92:22, 93:1, 93:4,
95:2, 95:12, 96:2,
96:15, 97:20, 97:21,
97:23, 98:17, 105:5,
108:14, 109:7, 110:3,
110:5, 111:9, 111:13,
111:14, 111:16, 112:7,
113:5, 113:7, 116:24,
117:10, 117:14,
117:18, 117:24, 119:2,
125:14, 125:22,
125:24, 126:5, 126:14,
127:11, 127:13,
127:17, 128:23,
129:10, 129:15,
129:20, 130:1, 130:2,
130:5, 130:8, 130:11,
130:19, 130:20, 131:3,
131:4, 131:12, 132:9,
132:12, 132:16,
132:17, 133:1, 133:20,
134:4, 134:24, 135:10,
135:20, 136:16,
138:10, 141:17,
141:19, 141:21,
141:25, 145:14,
147:24, 148:3, 148:4,
149:6, 152:10, 152:20,
152:21, 152:24, 153:5,
153:6, 153:11, 153:24,
154:13, 154:18,
154:20, 154:22, 155:1,
155:5, 155:15, 155:22,
156:12, 156:19,
156:21, 156:22, 157:5,
157:17, 157:22, 158:3,
158:20, 158:21, 159:5,
159:8, 159:21, 159:23,
160:10, 160:11,
160:16, 160:17,
169:15, 169:20,
170:12, 171:5, 172:3,
172:8, 172:17, 173:7,
174:14, 174:23
aid's [1] - 154:10
air [2] - 142:6, 142:9
Alan [1] - 80:21
alcohol [4] - 84:14,
104:22, 105:11
alcoholic [1] - 165:1
Aldergrove [1] - 47:18
Alison [7] - 51:10,
51:13, 68:12, 71:22,
72:2, 86:23
alive [1] - 119:12
all-encompassing [1] 110:18
Allan [2] - 3:20, 75:15
alleged [2] - 65:9, 65:11
alleviate [1] - 32:11
alleviating [1] - 42:17
alligators [1] - 14:17
allocated [2] - 27:4, 27:7
allocating [1] - 3:1
allow [5] - 15:24, 89:7,
128:19, 133:3, 166:24
allowance [2] - 49:14,
128:15
allowed [3] - 120:4,
162:2, 171:13
allows [2] - 50:18, 108:2
allude [1] - 5:6
allusions [1] - 121:1
almost [17] - 14:4, 23:9,
24:19, 30:11, 31:11,
31:14, 34:8, 79:6,
81:11, 84:22, 90:7,
97:19, 130:4, 139:25,
143:16, 146:7, 157:4
alone [4] - 57:17,
112:22, 159:19, 174:4
alternate [1] - 14:10
alternative [4] - 119:16,
125:7, 125:8, 158:18
Alternatives [1] - 59:18
alternatives [1] - 52:13
aluminum [1] - 162:24
amazing [1] - 71:11
American [1] - 161:17
Amita [5] - 126:23,
126:24, 127:7, 129:21,
135:11
amount [14] - 15:20,
27:7, 41:11, 67:4,
69:7, 69:22, 71:6,
71:11, 79:20, 93:2,
103:25, 119:2
analysis [5] - 52:8, 55:3,
55:10, 55:14
Andrea [1] - 62:18
anecdotal [1] - 11:5
anecdotally [1] - 42:7
anger [2] - 114:1, 115:10
angry [2] - 99:3, 123:9
annoyed [1] - 162:22
annual [2] - 61:8, 138:14
annualized [1] - 97:12
answer [9] - 1:14, 54:7,
57:19, 113:11, 117:3,
120:3, 123:1, 125:21,
160:4
answering [1] - 160:5
anti [1] - 17:15
anti-violence [1] - 17:15
anticipate [1] - 108:21
apart [2] - 78:19, 130:15
iii
apartment [1] - 167:14
apartments [1] - 167:25
appalled [1] - 121:16
appeal [10] - 74:1,
82:15, 83:13, 83:16,
91:5, 154:22, 155:5,
155:15
Appeal [2] - 91:3, 91:4
appealed [1] - 91:3
appeals [1] - 76:10
appear [1] - 162:2
appearances [1] - 122:8
appeared [3] - 18:23,
110:7, 161:22
appearing [1] - 151:3
appended [1] - 10:14
applicability [1] - 86:5
applicable [1] - 37:24
Application [2] - 155:23,
156:14
application [21] - 20:24,
21:5, 50:18, 69:22,
70:6, 70:7, 70:12,
70:13, 141:21, 145:20,
146:12, 146:13,
146:16, 154:23,
154:24, 155:2, 155:4,
155:15, 156:3, 156:16
applications [24] 20:14, 21:1, 26:11,
26:12, 34:11, 68:13,
68:15, 68:18, 69:6,
71:7, 75:3, 89:7,
89:18, 89:25, 97:1,
97:5, 97:6, 97:12,
97:13, 109:15, 156:5,
156:6, 156:7, 157:12
applied [3] - 69:17,
111:16, 116:1
apply [4] - 144:18,
152:25
applying [2] - 109:14,
141:20
appointed [2] - 4:3,
56:20
appointment [5] 110:21, 111:9, 112:8,
112:10, 112:12
appointments [2] 110:2, 142:9
appreciate [6] - 5:20,
71:12, 140:23, 142:14,
147:4, 151:4
apprehend [1] - 153:17
apprehension [2] 153:8, 153:14
approach [3] - 14:12,
15:21, 105:7
appropriate [4] - 15:25,
16:3, 111:3, 115:17
appropriately [4] 22:15, 94:20, 124:8,
124:9
approve [1] - 121:23
approved [5] - 110:5,
111:12, 155:2, 155:4
approving [2] - 31:5,
158:23
April [4] - 4:9, 96:12,
108:16, 115:2
arbitrary [1] - 120:17
architect [1] - 173:22
area [30] - 4:22, 26:21,
30:8, 35:16, 36:3,
39:11, 47:19, 58:22,
63:17, 64:1, 73:11,
97:15, 103:22, 103:25,
141:5, 152:6, 152:7,
154:4, 154:5, 154:8,
154:16, 155:9, 155:10,
155:19, 156:9, 157:14,
159:19, 160:18,
162:13, 169:18
areas [20] - 8:9, 14:3,
26:23, 46:1, 48:4,
48:6, 63:13, 65:15,
65:16, 74:11, 87:25,
89:5, 123:24, 131:6,
131:18, 137:4, 149:23,
154:21, 155:25,
159:18
arena [1] - 165:3
argue [4] - 56:18, 59:2,
102:5, 102:20
arguments [1] - 53:22
arising [1] - 15:3
arm [1] - 170:20
Army [1] - 49:13
army [1] - 162:12
arrested [1] - 19:19
Arthur [2] - 136:8,
151:11
article [1] - 62:18
articled [2] - 63:12,
77:18
articling [3] - 117:20,
127:2, 127:8
articulate [1] - 52:4
articulated [1] - 52:19
Asian [2] - 107:10,
137:10
aside [7] - 65:10, 65:12,
93:4, 93:5, 95:7,
100:4, 123:21
aspects [2] - 114:13,
143:13
assault [5] - 36:13, 91:9,
163:2, 165:18, 165:19
assembly [1] - 1:10
asserted [1] - 54:19
asserting [1] - 131:21
assess [2] - 155:1,
163:18
assessed [1] - 154:15
assessment [2] - 12:21,
143:14
assessments [2] 154:11, 164:6
assign [1] - 89:12
assigned [2] - 97:2,
110:8
assist [11] - 31:18, 66:5,
90:3, 95:21, 102:15,
105:2, 134:1, 134:7,
134:9, 154:19, 157:11
Assistance [1] - 17:12
assistance [34] - 1:20,
6:6, 22:24, 23:6, 23:7,
23:14, 25:16, 25:21,
35:4, 47:25, 48:3,
49:4, 64:10, 64:11,
64:15, 65:15, 66:22,
67:3, 67:6, 68:16,
68:18, 69:25, 74:23,
75:3, 78:6, 91:7,
93:25, 95:20, 100:2,
102:24, 104:10, 105:9,
128:22, 175:11
assistant [2] - 89:22,
95:20
assistants [1] - 121:10
assisted [3] - 90:5,
90:18, 132:1
assisting [2] - 50:11,
98:13
assists [1] - 89:6
associate [2] - 4:10,
95:21
associated [1] - 7:2
Association [6] - 17:11,
30:24, 58:7, 151:13,
161:16, 161:17
assume [1] - 85:16
assumption [1] - 53:11
assumptions [1] 171:13
assure [3] - 2:10, 33:1,
175:4
assured [1] - 21:21
AT [6] - 1:4, 87:6, 87:7,
136:3, 136:4, 175:12
atmosphere [2] - 108:4,
130:17
attainable [1] - 103:4
attempt [2] - 12:9, 160:2
attempted [1] - 169:11
attempting [1] - 129:17
attend [4] - 25:10, 63:4,
74:14, 75:5
attended [6] - 20:4,
140:21, 144:14,
166:12, 168:2, 170:24
attention [2] - 62:17,
171:4
Attorney [8] - 5:8, 9:5,
9:14, 15:18, 16:13,
31:12, 36:18, 120:9
augment [1] - 137:3
author [1] - 51:20
authority [2] - 73:20,
153:17
automatic [1] - 25:13
automobile [1] - 81:1
availability [3] - 11:13,
14:2, 16:4
available [10] - 2:17,
52:22, 55:4, 57:24,
62:22, 90:13, 92:3,
94:24, 95:1, 175:8
avenue [3] - 20:21,
22:15, 22:17
avenues [2] - 22:2, 22:3
average [3] - 49:8, 50:20
avoid [3] - 21:17,
101:17, 102:11
avoids [1] - 40:23
awarded [1] - 72:20
awards [1] - 66:15
aware [10] - 12:11,
12:25, 21:12, 37:3,
110:25, 111:2, 140:5,
142:11, 142:12,
149:14
awareness [4] - 28:24,
107:8, 107:11, 152:24
B
background [10] - 2:23,
5:5, 10:15, 17:9,
28:25, 73:8, 87:16,
136:14, 140:19,
149:14
backgrounds [2] - 5:22,
107:22
backlog [1] - 42:6
backlogged [1] - 49:5
backs [1] - 27:11
bad [3] - 63:5, 78:20,
96:21
badly [3] - 113:24,
170:21, 171:9
bail [2] - 98:14, 122:10
bailiwick [1] - 103:14
balance [1] - 70:16
balanced [1] - 35:8
ballpark [2] - 126:16,
126:17
bang [1] - 162:22
Bank [4] - 168:16,
168:20, 169:5, 169:6
bank [2] - 29:17, 168:19
banks [1] - 65:13
bar [16] - 87:17, 113:20,
115:5, 115:8, 118:7,
119:7, 119:8, 120:2,
120:13, 120:15, 123:5,
123:7, 123:13, 125:9,
125:22
bare [1] - 92:11
barrier [1] - 140:12
barriers [7] - 107:23,
109:11, 109:25,
111:21, 112:23, 149:9,
149:10
barristers [2] - 113:23,
115:12
base [1] - 154:6
based [11] - 12:7, 58:2,
58:12, 71:8, 91:20,
107:4, 108:17, 118:4,
146:2, 172:14
Based [1] - 59:16
bases [1] - 26:16
basic [10] - 8:8, 13:10,
97:7, 98:12, 144:11,
144:16, 144:17,
145:25, 146:17,
147:12
basis [6] - 7:7, 29:22,
71:2, 88:22, 91:18,
105:6
Bastard [1] - 113:13
bastards [1] - 113:15
BC [30] - 17:10, 17:11,
18:14, 49:19, 51:20,
54:20, 55:19, 59:25,
63:9, 63:15, 63:20,
63:23, 66:14, 68:13,
69:24, 71:14, 72:23,
78:12, 81:13, 84:11,
87:1, 91:4, 127:8,
129:5, 130:20, 131:13,
132:16, 133:1, 140:25,
158:3
BC's [1] - 59:17
BCIT [1] - 174:18
BCSRA [1] - 176:4
beauticians [2] - 107:18,
107:23
became [5] - 38:4, 91:9,
91:11, 91:13, 173:19
become [3] - 31:23,
33:3, 42:8
becomes [6] - 32:6,
44:22, 99:13, 116:13,
137:18, 167:20
becoming [1] - 132:6
bed [2] - 49:12, 164:22
Beecroft [2] - 171:23,
171:25
beer [1] - 165:16
began [1] - 105:25
begin [2] - 38:8, 87:13
beginning [3] - 117:24,
120:6, 130:15
behalf [5] - 6:9, 38:5,
iv
75:6, 153:22
behind [1] - 171:6
believes [2] - 50:7,
121:5
bell [1] - 174:3
Bella [3] - 88:16
Bellows [5] - 113:1,
123:21, 124:22,
125:20, 126:22
BELLOWS [11] - 113:2,
124:1, 124:5, 124:24,
125:7, 126:1, 126:4,
126:11, 126:15,
126:17, 126:21
below [1] - 81:19
bench [5] - 45:14, 153:3,
162:3, 169:25, 173:14
beneath [1] - 114:2
beneficial [7] - 111:25,
135:3, 143:22, 144:5,
144:8, 145:12, 147:1
benefit [6] - 38:6, 39:17,
73:18, 101:20, 101:21,
135:8
benefit/cost [1] - 115:25
benefits [7] - 21:6,
64:12, 74:25, 91:8,
128:4, 128:7, 131:21
Benson [1] - 117:8
Benton [1] - 120:18
best [7] - 23:24, 60:21,
85:13, 118:10, 129:11,
172:16, 176:9
better [12] - 43:22, 98:1,
98:10, 132:4, 132:9,
138:16, 138:20,
138:21, 142:12,
157:17, 158:14,
160:23
between [16] - 4:2, 5:25,
7:1, 16:13, 25:25,
34:15, 56:15, 57:1,
92:22, 115:3, 120:20,
139:22, 144:23, 145:9,
146:21, 147:2
beyond [5] - 25:6, 26:5,
33:9, 129:3, 131:14
bifurcated [1] - 25:21
big [3] - 98:4, 134:2,
135:1
bigger [2] - 51:5, 51:7
bill [1] - 174:6
billings [3] - 121:4,
121:7, 126:6
billions [4] - 118:25,
119:3, 119:4, 119:5
biological [1] - 164:17
birth [2] - 84:9, 164:15
bit [20] - 8:20, 14:6,
14:11, 14:16, 15:1,
19:7, 28:17, 44:25,
71:3, 73:8, 73:22,
81:14, 81:15, 87:16,
95:22, 106:17, 132:24,
155:7, 156:5, 168:4
block [3] - 72:12,
167:14, 170:18
blood [1] - 121:13
blue [1] - 115:4
bluntly [1] - 11:18
BMW [2] - 169:20,
174:10
board [4] - 56:20, 62:1,
113:21, 115:2
Board [1] - 87:20
bodies [1] - 17:20
bodily [1] - 165:19
bono [22] - 4:8, 5:25,
6:7, 6:11, 6:17, 6:20,
7:3, 7:7, 7:12, 7:16,
7:23, 8:2, 8:8, 8:19,
9:11, 16:14, 22:9,
69:25, 71:9, 88:21,
88:23, 171:2
Bono [7] - 4:9, 4:19, 5:1,
9:16, 15:5, 88:22,
107:3
book [1] - 159:1
booked [3] - 142:9,
142:10, 166:23
booklet [2] - 158:25,
159:3
booklets [1] - 82:17
boon [1] - 73:6
boondoggle [1] - 73:6
border [1] - 4:22
borderline [1] - 83:1
born [2] - 20:10, 84:16
boss [1] - 151:15
bottles [2] - 165:16
bottom [1] - 123:11
bought [2] - 162:23,
165:9
bow [1] - 119:22
box [1] - 113:6
boy [1] - 11:19
boyfriend [1] - 174:5
boys [1] - 166:14
brain [6] - 84:7, 84:8,
84:13, 84:15, 84:18,
114:16
brandsema [1] - 53:17
BRAR [2] - 28:15, 44:24
Brar [1] - 1:10
breach [4] - 50:14,
50:20, 102:7, 103:6
breaches [3] - 100:6,
102:4, 102:15
break [2] - 87:4, 136:2
breakdown [1] - 48:6
breaker [1] - 152:1
Breaker [3] - 152:6,
160:5, 160:22
Brewin [5] - 51:10,
51:11, 51:13, 68:12,
71:23
BREWIN [2] - 51:11,
51:13
bridge [4] - 167:9,
167:10, 167:11
bridges [2] - 158:7,
158:23
brief [3] - 5:20, 12:9,
112:5
briefing [1] - 17:5
briefly [6] - 8:24, 16:11,
31:12, 33:19, 37:5,
107:16
bright [1] - 166:4
brighter [1] - 81:14
brilliant [1] - 86:21
bring [3] - 71:7, 104:23,
174:1
bringing [2] - 70:3,
167:6
brings [1] - 58:22
Brinston [1] - 119:17
British [22] - 1:2, 1:15,
1:23, 3:21, 17:16,
18:12, 30:23, 31:7,
34:10, 57:15, 59:10,
61:16, 62:14, 64:20,
83:2, 83:3, 84:23,
151:14, 156:1, 159:1,
160:11, 176:3
broad [5] - 12:8, 64:17,
76:21, 76:23, 90:12
broaden [1] - 137:3
broadly [1] - 82:21
brochure [2] - 82:8, 85:3
Brodsky [1] - 70:1
Broken [1] - 59:17
brother [1] - 29:18
brought [4] - 34:12,
156:13, 157:10,
157:24
bubble [1] - 20:16
bucket [1] - 123:12
Buckley [1] - 70:1
bucks [5] - 115:23,
172:9, 172:10, 172:13,
173:23
buddies [1] - 167:9
budget [2] - 45:25,
172:8
budgetary [1] - 8:15
building [2] - 158:7,
158:23
built [2] - 136:17, 136:22
bunch [6] - 66:11,
113:8, 121:15, 123:14,
123:17
burden [3] - 40:9, 61:14,
124:18
burdens [1] - 132:21
bureaucracy [1] - 114:6
burned [2] - 170:21,
171:9
burnt [1] - 171:14
bus [1] - 49:25
business [3] - 61:3,
173:21
businesses [1] - 107:19
busy [1] - 34:10
C
cabinet [1] - 56:21
cafeteria [1] - 113:24
calculate [1] - 39:6
calculation [1] - 39:6
Canada [30] - 4:4, 19:11,
21:9, 24:1, 26:14,
31:17, 37:21, 53:6,
53:12, 53:15, 53:23,
55:6, 55:14, 55:24,
61:17, 62:13, 79:11,
81:8, 85:10, 140:19,
141:10, 143:25, 149:2,
168:16, 168:21, 169:5,
169:6, 173:19, 176:4
Canada's [2] - 54:19,
72:14
Canadian [7] - 19:9,
20:10, 20:20, 81:12,
137:16, 161:15,
162:12
Canadian-born [1] 20:10
Canadians [6] - 81:9,
137:13, 140:8, 141:16,
143:21, 149:21
cancelling [1] - 68:21
candid [1] - 14:13
cannot [21] - 6:5, 32:11,
35:3, 35:24, 35:25,
36:21, 38:18, 44:21,
51:7, 55:13, 75:22,
75:25, 82:2, 82:3,
94:19, 115:22, 123:10,
137:18, 141:13, 144:8,
174:3
cans [1] - 165:9
capable [3] - 23:22,
42:9, 57:18
capacity [6] - 57:17,
58:13, 62:5, 66:4,
129:7, 162:6
captive [1] - 121:1
capture [1] - 104:5
card [1] - 173:24
care [8] - 88:9, 115:22,
123:2, 124:6, 124:7,
124:8, 128:14, 133:22
careened [1] - 167:15
career [2] - 58:19,
117:24
carefully [1] - 15:25
caregiver [1] - 163:12
caregivers [1] - 58:9
carpet [1] - 167:19
carry [2] - 122:25,
124:16
carrying [1] - 40:10
case [35] - 22:19, 33:8,
34:18, 34:21, 36:13,
36:14, 37:8, 37:21,
37:23, 37:25, 42:7,
48:19, 55:17, 57:25,
66:4, 67:21, 68:17,
68:22, 69:7, 69:17,
69:19, 70:3, 70:14,
70:18, 70:22, 91:2,
91:9, 96:8, 100:11,
100:12, 119:13, 144:1,
163:4, 171:1, 173:17
caseload [1] - 108:13
cases [29] - 10:16, 19:6,
27:19, 28:17, 30:1,
35:14, 35:15, 40:15,
41:10, 49:2, 50:21,
50:25, 55:21, 56:2,
60:7, 60:11, 65:4,
66:1, 68:18, 83:12,
88:5, 102:8, 111:15,
111:22, 117:14, 138:4,
141:1, 145:4, 148:6
catching [1] - 118:25
catchment [1] - 47:19
categories [2] - 18:6,
55:5
category [4] - 17:25,
96:14, 100:5, 115:20
cater [1] - 141:5
Cathy [1] - 80:21
caught [2] - 100:22,
168:11
caused [1] - 127:19
causes [1] - 94:14
causing [2] - 165:17,
165:19
CBA [3] - 15:18, 55:19,
62:7
CBSA [1] - 27:11
ceiling [1] - 131:16
cell [2] - 81:2, 95:14
cells [1] - 166:16
central [1] - 129:3
Centre [7] - 16:9, 59:18,
63:9, 106:16, 108:12,
127:8, 129:6
centre [3] - 105:22,
106:16, 106:19
Centres [1] - 9:6
CEO [1] - 142:15
certain [5] - 36:7, 49:2,
v
75:9, 92:9, 93:2
certainly [11] - 2:15,
6:25, 7:14, 22:17,
87:21, 88:1, 89:11,
91:15, 96:7, 101:25,
102:19
certificate [1] - 164:15
Certification [1] - 176:1
certify [1] - 176:4
chairs [1] - 125:1
challenge [2] - 6:16, 8:8
Challenges [1] - 56:5
challenging [1] - 91:7
chambers [1] - 122:13
chance [4] - 66:3, 66:6,
113:3, 167:5
change [3] - 57:18,
81:18, 115:3
changed [7] - 54:6,
65:15, 77:3, 132:20,
170:4, 170:11, 172:15
changes [5] - 9:3, 57:3,
65:21, 112:7
changing [1] - 170:11
characteristics [1] 85:17
charge [4] - 22:25,
30:25, 34:13, 93:8
charged [3] - 163:1,
165:18, 166:12
charges [3] - 40:20,
42:9, 90:20
charging [1] - 7:20
charitable [2] - 17:13,
71:15
chart [2] - 117:12,
122:24
Charter [6] - 38:21,
53:19, 53:20, 71:8,
131:15
chat [1] - 9:20
check [1] - 173:23
cheque [12] - 29:15,
29:17, 49:15, 167:24,
168:14, 168:24, 169:1,
169:2, 169:7, 169:8,
169:10
child [19] - 64:14, 65:16,
79:20, 88:17, 90:16,
98:23, 99:3, 99:12,
127:4, 128:14, 128:15,
128:20, 153:8, 164:20,
170:21, 170:22, 171:8,
173:16, 174:4
Child [2] - 152:13,
152:14
childcare [1] - 134:13
Children [2] - 88:14,
113:13
children [35] - 20:10,
20:18, 20:20, 23:4,
24:9, 26:24, 26:25,
28:12, 83:9, 88:18,
90:15, 99:8, 99:10,
99:17, 100:13, 101:13,
108:9, 113:17, 113:18,
152:10, 152:11,
152:17, 153:14,
153:18, 163:18,
163:20, 164:6, 164:10,
171:3, 171:15, 171:22,
172:14, 172:16
children's [1] - 101:10
Chilliwack [1] - 152:2
choice [1] - 30:15
choose [3] - 24:21,
27:23, 28:21
choosing [1] - 108:9
chose [2] - 161:7, 161:9
chow [1] - 165:13
Chris [1] - 147:24
Christian [2] - 166:3,
166:6
Christie [1] - 4:6
church [4] - 78:17,
78:20, 78:21, 78:25
Church [3] - 72:11, 73:9,
77:5
circuits [1] - 88:16
circular [1] - 95:18
circumstance [2] 22:11, 23:18
circumstances [7] 19:13, 92:5, 96:18,
98:20, 99:18, 130:18,
130:19
citizen [1] - 50:8
city [5] - 42:15, 78:22,
87:11, 160:13, 160:15
City [3] - 1:11, 42:13,
43:14
civil [8] - 55:10, 60:3,
60:10, 61:5, 68:10,
87:25, 91:22, 169:12
claim [7] - 25:20, 68:20,
68:23, 68:24, 69:4,
69:8, 146:19
claims [2] - 4:11, 143:14
Clare [4] - 161:23,
162:1, 169:25, 170:2
clarify [2] - 5:25, 20:11
CLAS [1] - 49:4
classic [1] - 6:3
cleaning [1] - 167:23
clear [4] - 15:13, 42:2,
54:14, 77:24
clearly [6] - 55:5, 79:25,
96:8, 123:23, 136:21,
144:7
ClickLaw [1] - 13:25
client [22] - 10:25,
14:21, 15:24, 26:2,
28:4, 50:13, 68:20,
83:11, 96:3, 98:20,
108:4, 109:13, 109:23,
111:8, 112:19, 127:21,
128:3, 128:23, 133:21,
133:22, 134:1, 154:24
client's [3] - 111:24,
128:25, 133:3
clientele [2] - 94:3,
103:19
clients [68] - 4:25, 10:7,
11:2, 15:7, 21:15,
49:3, 50:11, 64:3,
68:14, 79:5, 81:4,
91:24, 94:8, 94:9,
94:19, 95:6, 95:16,
98:7, 105:25, 106:2,
106:17, 106:18,
106:23, 108:3, 108:18,
108:25, 109:3, 109:6,
109:10, 110:1, 110:4,
110:7, 110:10, 110:13,
110:16, 110:22,
111:12, 111:15,
111:17, 111:18, 112:9,
112:11, 112:14,
112:17, 113:5, 116:5,
118:1, 118:8, 127:18,
127:20, 128:2, 129:8,
132:1, 132:2, 132:10,
132:21, 133:25, 134:7,
134:8, 134:9, 134:16,
135:4, 136:18, 136:23,
145:11, 147:2, 161:25
climbing [1] - 124:12
clinic [12] - 11:14, 14:22,
23:8, 23:19, 83:14,
130:15, 132:23,
133:18, 133:19, 135:8,
135:17, 135:22
clinical [3] - 141:7,
143:23, 148:23
clinics [14] - 4:19, 4:20,
4:23, 11:8, 11:11,
15:5, 64:18, 106:22,
107:3, 130:5, 139:7,
143:23, 144:7
clippings [1] - 113:8
close [2] - 28:8, 124:21
closed [3] - 9:2, 89:19,
135:1
closely [3] - 64:2, 65:17,
70:4
closer [2] - 13:15, 93:9
closing [1] - 109:24
closure [4] - 8:20, 8:24,
9:2, 108:15
Coalition [1] - 51:22
coalition [1] - 63:18
Coast [10] - 51:18,
51:23, 52:17, 56:13,
58:4, 58:6, 70:4,
71:24, 103:23, 103:24
Coast/Sqaumish [1] 89:4
cochair [1] - 51:21
code [2] - 6:25, 72:14
Code [1] - 88:11
cognitive [1] - 66:23
coincidence [1] - 68:1
coincident [1] - 171:17
collapse [1] - 41:8
collected [1] - 61:17
collecting [1] - 49:9
collection [1] - 110:6
collectively [1] - 107:12
college [1] - 80:19
Columbia [18] - 1:2,
1:15, 1:23, 3:21,
17:16, 18:12, 30:23,
31:7, 34:10, 57:15,
61:16, 62:14, 83:2,
151:14, 156:1, 159:1,
160:11, 176:3
Columbian [1] - 164:20
Columbians [4] - 59:11,
64:20, 83:3, 84:23
comfortable [2] 138:25, 140:14
COMMENCED [1] - 1:4
comment [1] - 28:16
commented [1] - 86:23
comments [4] - 5:17,
7:14, 71:22, 91:13
Commission [5] - 1:8,
1:13, 2:21, 63:20,
170:6
commission [17] - 1:17,
5:3, 10:18, 13:13,
16:16, 16:18, 16:20,
31:20, 59:20, 60:15,
62:16, 64:7, 90:24,
96:13, 105:18, 113:2,
160:4
commission's [1] - 6:1
Commissioner [2] 10:15, 63:7
COMMISSIONER [127] 3:16, 7:5, 7:21, 16:25,
17:3, 17:7, 17:25,
18:2, 21:19, 22:3,
23:20, 26:23, 28:8,
28:14, 30:18, 33:25,
34:4, 39:16, 41:6,
42:1, 43:22, 46:24,
47:7, 47:9, 51:10,
51:12, 63:2, 69:9,
69:16, 72:8, 73:17,
74:3, 74:8, 74:14,
74:18, 74:21, 75:2,
75:10, 75:13, 75:21,
75:24, 76:4, 76:8,
76:12, 76:15, 77:2,
77:17, 77:23, 81:23,
84:12, 84:19, 86:2,
87:3, 87:8, 93:11,
93:18, 97:4, 103:13,
103:16, 103:23, 104:5,
105:15, 106:5, 106:8,
106:10, 106:12,
112:25, 124:21, 125:5,
125:20, 126:2, 126:10,
126:12, 126:16,
126:19, 126:22, 136:1,
136:5, 136:9, 136:19,
138:18, 138:21,
142:23, 147:8, 147:16,
147:18, 148:1, 148:4,
148:9, 148:12, 149:24,
150:7, 150:10, 150:12,
150:14, 150:16,
150:18, 150:21, 151:3,
151:10, 151:15,
151:17, 151:19,
151:22, 152:4, 152:8,
152:13, 160:7, 160:25,
161:2, 161:8, 161:12,
161:14, 161:19,
162:13, 162:15,
163:25, 164:3, 164:5,
164:8, 164:18, 164:23,
168:18, 171:8, 171:17,
174:24, 175:1
commissioner [5] - 1:6,
1:7, 3:17, 5:4, 8:22
commissioners [2] 30:19, 47:10
commitment [1] - 51:16
committed [6] - 15:21,
32:23, 68:5, 94:12,
123:2, 146:18
committees [1] - 54:18
common [7] - 6:8, 19:3,
20:24, 21:13, 24:17,
88:23, 104:22
commonality [1] - 6:13
communicate [3] - 28:5,
134:5, 134:6
communication [3] 140:7, 144:22, 157:16
communications [1] 144:22
communities [6] 56:13, 58:17, 61:20,
64:4, 88:20, 136:18
Community [3] - 88:15,
127:1, 136:12
community [46] - 10:11,
12:7, 29:2, 42:14,
42:16, 42:22, 42:23,
42:24, 43:13, 43:14,
43:19, 50:13, 52:12,
53:1, 53:8, 58:12,
59:11, 60:24, 61:14,
62:4, 62:9, 72:10,
72:22, 89:14, 89:23,
vi
90:3, 90:6, 91:20,
104:25, 107:3, 107:4,
107:9, 107:18, 134:22,
135:3, 136:24, 137:9,
137:10, 137:12, 138:7,
138:17, 138:22,
138:23, 139:19,
141:16
community's [1] 107:10
community-based [4] 12:7, 58:12, 91:20,
107:4
Company [2] - 161:4,
161:6
company [1] - 161:5
compared [3] - 60:4,
60:11, 119:2
compassionate [2] 20:23, 76:10
compelled [1] - 42:8
compensation [1] 94:15
competency [2] - 48:5,
107:20
competent [1] - 122:1
complement [2] - 10:10,
10:19
complementary [1] 8:18
complete [5] - 11:14,
28:23, 98:19, 115:9,
176:8
completed [1] - 77:12
completely [1] - 40:19
completion [1] - 80:18
complex [12] - 20:25,
26:12, 27:13, 27:20,
32:6, 55:16, 56:1,
80:2, 80:15, 133:4,
147:13, 147:19
complexities [1] - 40:7
complicated [9] - 22:18,
33:22, 34:3, 66:18,
99:7, 145:2, 145:6,
148:18, 148:19
complicating [1] - 27:9
compounded [1] - 40:2
compounding [1] 24:17
comprehensive [4] 133:2, 134:9, 134:16,
135:7
compromise [1] - 51:8
computer [3] - 82:8,
85:4, 164:19
computers [3] - 140:15,
149:18
concentrating [1] - 30:9
concept [3] - 28:24,
120:13, 158:10
concern [3] - 15:9,
114:8, 152:18
concerned [1] - 18:9
concerning [2] - 22:22,
159:19
concerns [1] - 15:3
conclude [2] - 28:9,
30:16
conclusion [2] - 61:24,
96:7
concur [1] - 7:13
condition [1] - 102:13
conditions [1] - 25:18
conducted [1] - 18:18
conducting [3] - 31:6,
37:7, 63:25
conferences [1] 122:12
confidence [2] - 12:17,
48:12
confident [1] - 111:14
confidentiality [1] 15:10
conflict [1] - 44:23
conflicts [1] - 55:23
confusion [2] - 53:4,
132:20
congenital [1] - 84:9
connect [1] - 109:18
connection [2] - 4:14,
74:9
conscience [1] - 122:4
consequence [1] 160:9
consider [5] - 9:16,
32:16, 112:1, 145:4,
160:16
considerable [2] 15:20, 47:4
considered [2] - 80:13,
140:25
constant [2] - 65:19
constantly [1] - 147:5
Constitution [1] - 55:24
constitutional [7] - 42:3,
52:21, 55:2, 55:9,
62:12, 69:19, 70:18
constructive [2] - 1:21,
3:8
consultation [1] - 53:2
consumer [1] - 63:19
consumers [1] - 81:6
contact [1] - 64:25
contacting [1] - 22:14
contacts [1] - 76:25
contentment [1] - 146:4
context [9] - 21:20,
27:16, 69:17, 99:25,
102:23, 104:18, 133:4,
147:14
continue [8] - 14:3,
28:21, 62:1, 70:22,
70:24, 90:18, 137:2,
137:8
continued [1] - 12:2
continuing [1] - 16:19
continuity [1] - 26:1
continuum [1] - 79:14
Contract [1] - 80:24
contract [2] - 83:6,
153:1
contracted [2] - 152:21,
159:8
contracts [1] - 80:25
contractually [1] - 88:8
contribute [1] - 71:10
contributing [2] - 57:16,
59:11
contribution [1] 120:10
contributions [1] 71:16
controlled [1] - 120:25
conversation [1] 113:23
convicted [1] - 101:5
conviction [1] - 31:18
convincing [1] - 26:18
Coola [1] - 88:16
coordinated [1] - 16:6
coordination [2] - 9:17,
13:18
coordinator [1] - 147:7
cope [2] - 85:1, 85:2
copies [1] - 114:25
coping [2] - 80:7, 80:14
copy [3] - 5:5, 57:24,
114:23
core [2] - 20:6, 66:16
cornered [1] - 140:1
cornerstone [1] - 38:24
corollary [2] - 12:1, 15:1
Coroner [1] - 171:22
coroner [1] - 171:25
correct [5] - 41:1, 42:11,
79:19, 93:13, 147:20
corresponding [2] 11:4, 85:9
correspondingly [1] 13:3
cost [13] - 6:15, 36:10,
39:2, 39:4, 39:14,
39:16, 40:24, 53:18,
59:23, 66:15, 116:4,
173:3, 174:9
costs [3] - 42:18, 42:20,
115:23
council [2] - 160:13,
160:15
councillor [2] - 1:11,
87:11
counsel [59] - 23:14,
24:14, 25:4, 25:5,
25:9, 26:14, 30:20,
31:5, 31:13, 31:22,
35:8, 35:9, 35:22,
35:24, 36:1, 36:6,
36:15, 36:22, 37:2,
38:14, 38:18, 40:16,
41:3, 41:11, 41:21,
43:25, 45:24, 46:17,
50:22, 58:5, 58:13,
62:6, 62:8, 68:14,
68:25, 69:13, 69:15,
70:15, 71:14, 88:4,
89:9, 89:13, 92:8,
93:16, 98:11, 100:24,
101:9, 101:19, 102:17,
110:8, 114:20, 115:4,
116:2, 116:5, 117:19,
119:10, 125:11
Counsel [3] - 30:23,
31:8, 113:13
Counselling [2] - 17:13,
151:13
counselling [3] - 23:10,
107:7, 137:5
counsellor [2] - 105:10,
105:11
countless [1] - 65:14
countries [1] - 79:11
country [2] - 24:23, 86:6
couple [4] - 63:11,
98:24, 99:15, 102:22
couples [1] - 26:24
courier [2] - 100:14
course [14] - 1:24, 2:4,
2:15, 5:22, 7:5, 58:25,
77:14, 78:3, 78:10,
89:13, 92:4, 93:24,
98:12, 103:21
court [79] - 4:12, 20:15,
31:18, 31:23, 32:18,
32:25, 33:2, 33:12,
34:18, 36:18, 37:9,
37:12, 41:15, 42:6,
42:15, 42:16, 42:22,
42:23, 42:24, 43:5,
43:19, 45:2, 45:10,
45:11, 45:17, 45:19,
46:9, 52:5, 52:13,
53:22, 53:25, 54:10,
55:1, 55:18, 55:25,
59:24, 68:15, 69:12,
69:14, 70:7, 70:9,
70:12, 70:13, 70:16,
88:15, 91:5, 98:13,
99:23, 101:2, 101:4,
101:23, 103:19,
104:17, 104:25, 105:3,
105:12, 110:7, 110:9,
112:20, 114:18,
114:22, 115:4, 115:7,
116:7, 116:8, 117:2,
118:23, 119:22,
120:16, 128:24,
138:24, 141:18,
153:13, 153:19,
161:23, 170:1, 170:7,
171:1, 174:2
Court [16] - 4:12, 30:21,
30:22, 31:1, 31:17,
33:24, 34:7, 34:8,
37:21, 53:15, 56:4,
59:25, 62:19, 68:13,
91:3, 91:4
Court-Related [1] 62:19
courteous [1] - 119:21
courtesy [1] - 119:22
Courthouse [3] - 89:16,
90:1, 109:17
courthouse [3] - 57:24,
89:20, 117:19
courthouses [1] 155:14
courtroom [4] - 45:19,
45:22, 153:23, 156:18
courts [14] - 42:18,
43:14, 45:15, 55:6,
55:22, 88:24, 101:22,
118:21, 120:11,
121:14, 144:10,
153:16, 163:20, 170:4
Courtworker [1] 151:13
courtworker [6] - 90:2,
152:15, 154:1, 155:13,
155:20, 159:17
courtworker's [1] 155:16
courtworkers [6] 153:4, 154:25, 155:22,
156:6, 157:21, 159:10
cover [3] - 26:16, 54:8,
75:10
coverage [12] - 8:11,
25:22, 25:25, 27:3,
27:7, 27:15, 27:16,
87:25, 111:13, 131:14,
131:16, 131:19
covered [9] - 89:10,
100:9, 102:25, 110:14,
110:15, 131:20,
146:20, 162:24,
172:21
CPP [1] - 48:1
crack [1] - 162:17
crave [1] - 58:20
create [4] - 18:14, 53:11,
108:3, 140:17
created [5] - 51:6,
107:17, 139:14,
145:22
creates [4] - 61:13,
127:24, 132:20,
136:25
vii
creating [1] - 61:1
creation [1] - 58:4
creative [1] - 173:5
credentials [1] - 140:20
crime [3] - 32:23, 102:9,
173:10
crimes [1] - 50:19
criminal [49] - 31:4,
31:6, 32:6, 32:8,
33:18, 33:20, 34:9,
34:25, 35:18, 35:20,
38:14, 38:16, 38:23,
40:15, 43:9, 46:22,
49:23, 68:9, 78:1,
78:5, 87:19, 87:23,
88:4, 89:10, 89:13,
90:8, 90:17, 90:22,
96:19, 99:13, 99:25,
100:3, 102:11, 102:23,
104:18, 105:13, 113:4,
114:14, 115:5, 115:8,
115:18, 131:8, 131:19,
132:12, 132:14,
137:14, 167:4, 173:22,
174:22
Criminal [2] - 88:10
crippling [1] - 33:17
crisis [1] - 49:13
crisscross [1] - 84:25
critical [4] - 28:6, 30:3,
30:12, 110:12
critically [1] - 137:10
criticism [1] - 8:13
cross [3] - 15:19, 32:21,
33:5
cross-examined [2] 32:21, 33:5
cross-organizational
[1] - 15:19
Crown [25] - 30:20,
30:23, 30:25, 31:5,
31:8, 31:13, 31:22,
32:9, 33:8, 35:22,
35:23, 35:25, 36:22,
43:24, 44:9, 44:11,
44:14, 45:24, 96:16,
100:10, 100:23,
101:11, 115:4, 115:6,
116:8
CRR [2] - 176:2, 176:16
CRTC [1] - 63:20
crumbs [1] - 115:18
cultural [5] - 58:17,
111:21, 112:23,
139:15, 139:18
culturally [3] - 107:20,
111:5, 111:6
culture [1] - 29:10
cultures [1] - 107:22
curious [1] - 125:21
current [4] - 46:5, 95:25,
127:14, 129:5
Currie [1] - 103:25
custodial [1] - 20:13
custody [14] - 20:9,
20:18, 20:20, 27:13,
90:15, 110:16, 128:7,
128:9, 131:22, 152:16,
153:7, 153:18, 172:5,
174:6
custody/access [7] 163:10, 163:19, 164:3,
164:4, 171:11, 171:21,
172:7
cut [13] - 35:16, 69:1,
90:23, 91:7, 100:5,
118:18, 119:9, 121:6,
132:20, 135:1, 157:3,
157:6, 157:7
cuts [11] - 5:9, 35:17,
36:25, 61:21, 69:2,
96:11, 97:18, 108:14,
120:17, 129:15, 157:1
cutting [1] - 56:4
D
dad [1] - 174:5
daily [1] - 131:23
damage [1] - 168:8
Dan [1] - 118:11
danger [1] - 41:10
dangerous [4] - 28:12,
37:8, 37:22, 121:21
dark [1] - 165:11
darn [1] - 151:9
Darwinian [2] - 114:20,
116:22
data [2] - 59:25, 61:16
date [9] - 25:24, 26:3,
34:14, 34:15, 34:19,
101:2, 101:3, 108:19,
110:9
daughter [3] - 128:8,
128:10, 173:20
Dave [1] - 169:22
David [4] - 163:8,
163:15, 172:4
dawn [1] - 120:6
days [12] - 33:3, 57:21,
60:25, 70:11, 73:15,
78:24, 118:15, 139:22,
144:14, 168:9, 169:25,
172:15
deadline [1] - 72:7
deal [17] - 21:22, 22:14,
29:20, 32:4, 38:9,
46:18, 47:24, 50:2,
53:4, 71:21, 78:4,
79:24, 86:16, 98:7,
102:21, 127:20,
137:11
dealing [11] - 22:12,
33:21, 34:23, 69:11,
106:24, 111:20,
127:22, 141:19,
148:20, 167:18,
173:11
deals [1] - 106:20
dealt [8] - 22:10, 35:14,
40:7, 44:13, 75:17,
124:3, 145:17, 146:5
dear [1] - 166:5
death [1] - 172:2
debt [12] - 21:11, 21:18,
21:24, 22:7, 22:21,
48:5, 61:2, 66:1, 66:3,
68:21, 72:23, 75:18
debtor [1] - 64:15
decade [3] - 3:25, 10:6,
57:4
decide [1] - 168:25
decided [5] - 23:17,
85:25, 162:21, 165:10,
166:8
decides [1] - 116:11
decision [3] - 91:10,
91:14, 146:2
decisions [1] - 172:14
deck [1] - 124:25
declare [1] - 49:18
declined [1] - 70:16
decreased [1] - 88:2
dedicated [5] - 59:2,
118:5, 118:17, 123:1,
143:3
dedication [1] - 118:17
deemed [1] - 83:4
default [1] - 95:11
defence [20] - 31:22,
35:22, 35:23, 36:14,
36:22, 37:2, 38:14,
46:17, 101:4, 101:19,
114:20, 116:2, 116:9,
119:6, 119:7, 119:8,
120:2, 120:13, 120:15,
173:1
Defence [1] - 113:13
defend [3] - 48:11,
115:22, 116:2
defendants [1] - 69:24
defender [1] - 43:15
defending [1] - 124:11
defined [1] - 56:21
definitely [1] - 26:21
definition [3] - 6:2, 6:3,
79:14
definitions [3] - 6:13,
6:16, 8:2
defunct [1] - 123:5
degenerative [1] - 84:10
degree [3] - 16:15,
77:13, 94:17
degrees [1] - 77:9
dehumanized [2] 116:13, 116:15
delay [5] - 34:11, 34:22,
34:23, 41:11, 102:1
delays [3] - 42:20,
101:24, 102:2
deliver [3] - 123:10,
137:2, 144:2
delivering [1] - 10:17
delivery [12] - 1:22,
3:10, 3:23, 4:8, 12:1,
12:3, 14:12, 16:7,
38:23, 58:1, 71:23,
100:16
demand [4] - 9:9, 10:8,
11:6, 67:17
demands [3] - 80:8,
80:10, 80:14
demise [2] - 72:17,
78:10
demonstrate [1] - 11:12
denial [3] - 110:13,
110:21, 110:23
Denied [2] - 51:21,
59:15
denied [3] - 71:20,
109:16, 111:16
denies [1] - 28:10
denotes [2] - 80:2, 80:16
department [3] - 57:1,
120:9, 159:6
Department [2] - 157:3,
157:18
deported [5] - 19:14,
19:16, 19:20, 20:19,
30:6
depravation [1] - 116:25
depth [1] - 111:24
deregulated [1] - 66:13
describe [1] - 73:18
described [1] - 72:14
deserve [1] - 138:5
deserves [2] - 32:13,
101:8
design [1] - 104:23
designed [1] - 58:18
desirable [1] - 40:22
desire [2] - 52:20, 52:25
desk [2] - 162:9, 166:1
desperately [1] - 174:17
desperation [1] - 76:11
despite [1] - 52:2
destroy [1] - 123:3
detained [1] - 25:3
detention [3] - 25:8,
25:13, 25:16
determine [2] - 1:18,
79:19
determined [1] - 85:19
determining [1] - 89:8
devalued [1] - 118:19
develop [6] - 1:15,
16:12, 17:18, 118:4,
125:13, 158:19
developed [5] - 52:14,
56:14, 80:7, 158:22,
159:5
developing [3] - 8:9,
112:1, 155:5
Development [1] - 128:5
development [1] - 16:6
developments [1] 13:24
develops [1] - 136:24
Diane [1] - 1:11
difference [5] - 24:14,
46:22, 56:14, 92:22,
120:20
different [15] - 29:10,
66:8, 93:12, 104:14,
107:22, 113:10,
127:21, 131:5, 142:6,
143:12, 143:17,
144:12, 147:10, 149:9,
170:23
difficult [24] - 21:3, 26:2,
30:2, 33:2, 33:4, 39:5,
46:14, 55:17, 71:21,
78:2, 80:9, 85:18,
91:23, 95:15, 112:22,
124:10, 124:18,
124:19, 128:25, 129:4,
155:8, 163:3, 167:2
difficulties [4] - 85:23,
86:3, 120:1, 120:18
difficulty [7] - 39:19,
85:15, 85:19, 110:10,
127:25, 128:10,
128:16
dignified [1] - 119:24
dignity [4] - 55:11,
57:10, 94:17, 94:21
diminished [1] - 162:6
diminishing [1] - 110:4
direct [9] - 13:18, 26:24,
36:1, 44:21, 52:2,
52:16, 54:12, 61:4,
131:1
directing [1] - 82:6
direction [2] - 59:9,
159:22
directly [2] - 105:2,
155:20
director [4] - 4:3, 4:10,
51:18, 88:14
disabilities [3] - 76:19,
82:21, 84:24
disability [7] - 48:1,
64:11, 83:5, 83:13,
104:21, 128:4, 128:11
disadvantage [3] - 32:9,
51:24, 54:1
disappeared [1] - 130:6
viii
disappearing [1] 135:14
disclose [1] - 111:6
disclosure [2] - 33:22,
34:1
disclosures [1] - 80:25
discussion [3] - 45:1,
58:24, 127:13
discussions [4] - 35:12,
36:4, 44:4, 44:16
disease [1] - 84:10
disgust [1] - 114:2
disheartening [1] 130:10
dismantled [1] - 67:25
dismayed [2] - 122:16,
122:20
dismiss [1] - 42:9
dismissed [1] - 34:21
disparity [1] - 93:18
dispense [1] - 173:2
display [1] - 170:17
disposition [1] - 41:17
dispositions [2] - 41:4,
44:1
disproportionately [1] 71:18
disquieting [1] - 12:23
disrespected [1] 118:20
distinguish [1] - 10:1
distribute [1] - 17:18
disturbing [1] - 67:8
diverting [1] - 40:18
diving [1] - 165:14
divorce [2] - 110:14,
110:18
divorcing [1] - 128:6
Doctor [2] - 171:8,
174:24
doctor [6] - 36:13,
36:14, 36:17, 36:19,
108:6, 146:15
doctor's [1] - 86:15
doctors [1] - 107:22
document [1] - 149:16
documentation [3] 12:20, 22:21, 23:23
documents [2] - 26:4,
82:12
dollar [2] - 61:4, 162:23
dollars [7] - 47:1, 65:9,
65:11, 116:3, 117:1,
160:15, 160:16
domestic [2] - 35:16,
166:12
Domestic [2] - 58:6,
71:25
domino [1] - 28:13
donations [1] - 49:12
done [29] - 12:21, 22:9,
26:14, 30:22, 41:17,
41:25, 46:16, 65:16,
73:25, 74:16, 77:19,
80:12, 81:8, 82:14,
85:10, 86:17, 87:18,
90:2, 96:10, 107:12,
107:17, 122:4, 129:6,
133:23, 134:1, 134:8,
141:13, 160:1, 169:16
donors [1] - 56:8
door [5] - 12:15, 14:21,
162:22, 162:24,
167:18
doors [1] - 75:2
double [1] - 37:17
doubt [4] - 33:9, 96:1,
103:5, 104:8
Douglas [1] - 4:6
DOUST [129] - 1:6, 3:16,
7:5, 7:21, 16:25, 17:3,
17:7, 17:25, 18:2,
21:19, 22:3, 23:20,
26:23, 28:8, 28:14,
30:18, 33:25, 34:4,
39:16, 41:6, 42:1,
43:22, 46:24, 47:7,
47:9, 51:10, 51:12,
63:2, 69:9, 69:16,
72:8, 73:17, 74:3,
74:8, 74:14, 74:18,
74:21, 75:2, 75:10,
75:13, 75:21, 75:24,
76:4, 76:8, 76:12,
76:15, 77:2, 77:17,
77:23, 81:23, 84:12,
84:19, 86:2, 87:3,
87:8, 93:11, 93:18,
97:4, 103:13, 103:16,
103:23, 104:5, 105:15,
106:5, 106:8, 106:10,
106:12, 112:25,
124:21, 125:5, 125:20,
126:2, 126:10, 126:12,
126:16, 126:19,
126:22, 136:1, 136:5,
136:9, 136:19, 138:18,
138:21, 142:23, 147:8,
147:16, 147:18, 148:1,
148:4, 148:9, 148:12,
149:24, 150:7, 150:10,
150:12, 150:14,
150:16, 150:18,
150:21, 151:3, 151:7,
151:10, 151:15,
151:17, 151:19,
151:22, 152:4, 152:8,
152:13, 160:7, 160:25,
161:2, 161:8, 161:12,
161:14, 161:19,
162:13, 162:15,
163:25, 164:3, 164:5,
164:8, 164:18, 164:23,
168:18, 171:8, 171:17,
174:24, 175:1
Doust [5] - 1:7, 63:7,
114:23, 117:13,
124:10
down [19] - 36:25,
37:22, 40:17, 49:21,
92:6, 93:21, 104:25,
117:15, 120:6, 120:21,
121:7, 130:16, 159:9,
163:16, 165:4, 165:13,
168:1, 171:14, 176:5
downs [1] - 92:2
downtown [3] - 72:11,
73:9, 131:25
Dr [1] - 161:2
DR [17] - 161:3, 161:9,
161:13, 161:15,
161:22, 162:14,
162:16, 164:2, 164:4,
164:7, 164:10, 164:19,
164:24, 168:19,
171:10, 171:18,
174:25
draft [1] - 59:20
dragging [1] - 51:1
drain [1] - 14:18
dramatic [1] - 78:11
dramatically [2] - 12:19,
170:4
drawing [1] - 62:1
dribble [1] - 167:13
drink [1] - 103:9
drinking [2] - 102:12,
102:13
drive [1] - 174:10
drives [1] - 100:22
driving [8] - 37:8, 37:22,
100:8, 100:19, 100:20,
100:22, 101:17,
101:18
drop [1] - 126:9
dropped [3] - 88:4,
117:15, 165:22
dropping [1] - 117:10
drops [1] - 12:18
drove [1] - 100:25
drowning [1] - 78:13
drug [2] - 104:21,
105:10
Drugs [1] - 165:6
due [10] - 2:14, 34:21,
41:10, 61:1, 109:25,
137:15, 137:17,
137:19, 137:20,
137:21
dumpster [5] - 165:2,
165:3, 165:11, 165:14,
165:15
dumpster-diving [1] 165:14
duplication [1] - 16:16
during [6] - 38:14, 69:2,
93:6, 96:25, 127:11
duties [2] - 4:18, 33:21
duty [12] - 25:4, 25:9,
31:15, 50:22, 88:4,
89:13, 98:11, 118:8,
118:9, 118:10, 119:10
dwindling [2] - 33:21,
34:1
dynamics [1] - 30:1
E
e-mail [3] - 140:24,
151:1, 158:16
early [8] - 35:14, 41:4,
41:12, 41:17, 57:21,
57:22, 83:15, 133:10
earmarked [1] - 59:5
earmarking [1] - 59:8
earners [1] - 48:13
easier [4] - 18:4, 24:12,
26:8, 121:4
easiest [1] - 162:10
easily [1] - 11:6
east [5] - 19:24, 72:11,
72:12, 73:10, 105:1
eat [1] - 99:10
echo [1] - 57:19
economic [4] - 39:20,
60:24, 61:14, 130:23
Economic [1] - 60:18
economy [2] - 61:9,
61:23
edges [1] - 55:8
Edith [13] - 167:6, 167:7,
167:9, 167:12, 168:4,
168:9, 168:17, 168:22,
169:2, 169:6, 169:13,
176:2, 176:16
educate [1] - 17:19
educated [1] - 81:15
Education [2] - 13:25,
51:19
education [15] - 30:2,
30:7, 52:1, 97:25,
98:3, 104:20, 107:11,
140:13, 154:6, 156:21,
156:22, 157:1, 157:10,
157:13, 157:20
educator [3] - 105:20,
106:3, 106:7
educators [1] - 107:19
Edward [10] - 162:10,
162:11, 162:17, 163:1,
163:7, 172:19, 172:23,
173:2, 173:6
Edward's [1] - 163:4
effect [5] - 24:21, 27:21,
28:13, 30:13, 40:21
effective [6] - 15:11,
29:7, 43:8, 43:20,
98:18, 137:2
effectively [1] - 129:19
efficiency [8] - 13:19,
32:1, 32:3, 33:16,
33:17, 34:24, 35:5,
38:17
efficient [8] - 31:4, 43:6,
43:9, 58:3, 95:4,
133:19, 135:7
efficiently [2] - 8:5,
14:25
effort [8] - 47:4, 52:24,
66:19, 69:7, 69:11,
69:22, 71:7
efforts [1] - 71:12
EI [9] - 48:5, 65:11,
65:15, 74:13, 74:16,
74:17, 149:13, 149:15
eight [4] - 7:2, 163:10,
169:23, 174:7
either [5] - 40:18, 49:22,
81:18, 102:18, 129:12
elaborate [1] - 19:7
elbows [1] - 14:17
elder [1] - 168:21
elderly [2] - 162:5,
169:22
elected [1] - 51:14
eligibility [2] - 67:23,
89:8
eligible [1] - 35:4
eliminate [1] - 47:2
eliminated [2] - 11:1,
96:14
elimination [1] - 5:14
eloquent [1] - 160:23
embark [1] - 20:22
embarking [1] - 21:4
embarrassed [1] 168:10
emerged [1] - 13:21
emergency [1] - 164:12
emerges [1] - 57:13
emerging [1] - 130:17
emotionally [1] - 117:7
empathetic [1] - 153:25
emphasis [1] - 87:19
employability [1] 49:25
employed [2] - 31:11,
142:25
employer [1] - 146:14
employer's [1] - 148:15
employment [5] - 9:1,
49:10, 64:12, 105:10,
137:6
emptied [1] - 168:6
encompasses [1] 114:13
ix
encompassing [1] 110:18
encounter [2] - 7:8, 43:3
encountering [1] - 43:4
encourage [5] - 16:6,
60:15, 62:23, 138:9,
139:10
encouraged [2] - 111:5,
111:6
encouragement [3] 138:15, 138:18,
138:20
end [23] - 13:6, 13:7,
33:13, 33:14, 35:10,
38:6, 38:8, 40:6,
41:25, 44:5, 44:18,
45:5, 53:7, 72:6, 78:4,
86:21, 91:15, 96:19,
96:21, 99:13, 103:10,
108:20, 129:25
endeavour [1] - 52:4
Ending [1] - 17:10
endure [1] - 121:17
energy [2] - 53:18, 118:6
enforce [1] - 153:14
enforcement [2] - 20:2,
20:3
engage [1] - 21:3
engaging [1] - 51:16
English [5] - 21:2,
66:23, 67:11, 137:5
enhance [1] - 62:12
enshrined [1] - 38:21
ensure [6] - 8:3, 14:23,
32:10, 38:17, 53:24,
58:13
ensuring [1] - 12:10
entangled [1] - 137:16
entered [1] - 36:16
entering [2] - 96:4,
135:16
entertains [2] - 162:17,
162:20
enthusiasm [1] - 57:8
entire [3] - 10:18, 37:18,
168:14
entirely [1] - 41:1
entitle [1] - 113:12
entitled [3] - 33:7,
39:19, 60:17
entrepreneurial [2] 162:18, 173:12
entry [1] - 80:19
environments [1] 108:3
equal [5] - 50:7, 92:19,
93:9, 93:10, 93:11
equality [8] - 50:7,
51:23, 54:25, 55:16,
55:25, 92:14, 93:14
especially [5] - 131:6,
133:21, 137:12,
141:16, 143:20
essence [2] - 104:5,
116:7
essential [1] - 21:6
essentially [4] - 88:18,
89:17, 90:2, 94:1
establish [1] - 62:7
establishing [1] - 112:2
ethic [1] - 172:15
ethical [3] - 6:24, 118:9,
118:10
ethics [1] - 6:25
EVA [6] - 17:10, 18:9,
18:13, 19:1, 27:6,
52:20
evening [3] - 73:16,
165:13, 173:12
event [2] - 8:1, 96:7
eventually [2] - 50:21,
175:7
everyday [2] - 80:7,
80:15
evicted [2] - 168:10,
168:13
evidence [9] - 32:20,
36:8, 36:10, 36:16,
37:20, 38:5, 41:16,
70:5
exactly [10] - 19:22,
47:6, 70:11, 119:19,
120:12, 123:4, 151:18,
152:14, 157:8, 168:5
examined [2] - 32:21,
33:5
example [22] - 8:25,
10:9, 10:21, 11:7,
13:24, 23:25, 35:15,
36:12, 37:5, 58:5,
67:1, 74:23, 79:19,
84:14, 86:12, 98:23,
110:13, 127:21, 128:3,
131:8, 131:24, 134:17
examples [7] - 11:3,
19:22, 35:5, 64:9,
65:8, 96:22, 102:22
exasperated [1] 110:23
excellent [3] - 2:1, 2:8,
156:23
except [4] - 46:15,
75:12, 86:22, 125:9
exceptional [3] - 158:8,
159:1, 159:12
exceptions [1] - 55:8
excess [1] - 161:24
exchanged [1] - 168:5
exclusively [1] - 125:24
excuse [1] - 69:9
executive [3] - 4:3, 4:10,
51:18
exercise [1] - 116:25
exhausted [1] - 117:7
exhausting [1] - 109:13
exhaustive [1] - 35:6
exist [1] - 59:7
existed [1] - 112:3
existence [1] - 54:9
existent [1] - 24:20
existing [1] - 135:2
exists [3] - 6:20, 51:23,
52:10
expanded [3] - 6:2,
106:2, 106:13
expanding [2] - 33:21,
34:1
expect [5] - 12:12,
114:9, 118:21, 118:22,
118:24
expectations [2] 156:11, 156:12
expected [1] - 94:4
expedite [1] - 156:16
expediting [1] - 157:11
expended [1] - 61:4
expenditures [1] - 115:3
expense [2] - 39:8,
40:24
experience [13] - 15:4,
33:10, 37:6, 52:19,
52:23, 72:24, 93:20,
94:22, 103:13, 110:10,
139:20, 140:22,
141:23
experienced [7] - 95:3,
108:13, 114:21,
116:23, 117:18,
121:20, 125:11
experiences [4] - 5:18,
54:12, 127:11, 130:3
experiencing [2] 109:6, 111:20
expert [1] - 121:22
expertise [6] - 56:14,
57:5, 58:14, 134:19,
135:15, 135:18
explain [9] - 35:2, 43:24,
102:18, 111:9, 144:20,
144:21, 146:24, 170:2
explained [3] - 78:9,
146:1, 162:25
explaining [1] - 95:10
explains [1] - 85:15
explanation [1] - 109:23
exposure [1] - 32:8
extended [3] - 61:15,
109:15
extensive [3] - 22:8,
22:20, 69:25
extent [2] - 88:1, 92:9
extra [12] - 32:10, 38:9,
39:7, 39:8, 39:20,
39:21, 39:23, 40:1,
40:4, 40:9, 122:7
extremely [4] - 27:20,
94:14, 121:19, 124:9
eye [1] - 167:7
F
fabric [1] - 61:23
face [4] - 20:9, 80:10,
148:18, 170:3
faced [4] - 92:17,
104:19, 137:12,
137:13
facilitated [1] - 35:22
facing [4] - 32:24,
100:25, 102:16,
144:11
fact [17] - 12:14, 30:5,
40:2, 41:2, 47:3,
58:20, 61:3, 64:23,
85:21, 91:16, 95:3,
95:4, 98:1, 101:8,
103:2, 103:20, 117:18
factor [4] - 12:16, 27:9,
98:4
facts [2] - 36:5, 146:3
Faculty [1] - 72:20
failed [1] - 57:11
failure [1] - 100:7
fair [10] - 31:3, 38:20,
44:11, 48:23, 53:16,
53:24, 101:11, 115:17,
124:4, 131:22
fair-thinking [1] 101:11
fairly [4] - 8:17, 123:22,
173:3
fairness [8] - 31:15,
31:25, 32:3, 32:5,
32:10, 32:16, 33:6,
38:17
faking [1] - 122:5
fall [4] - 72:21, 127:20,
128:1, 130:15
falls [3] - 77:25, 78:6,
129:3
familiar [1] - 125:22
families [2] - 29:11, 90:5
family [63] - 9:24, 11:25,
12:2, 20:14, 21:23,
24:8, 24:25, 27:2,
27:4, 27:8, 27:15,
27:18, 28:7, 29:14,
35:19, 53:17, 53:19,
53:21, 54:8, 56:12,
57:7, 59:5, 68:6,
68:11, 68:16, 68:22,
69:1, 69:7, 69:10,
69:21, 78:1, 78:2,
78:5, 87:19, 89:10,
89:12, 90:8, 90:13,
96:21, 104:18, 105:13,
106:20, 106:24, 111:7,
111:20, 118:16, 119:7,
127:22, 129:1, 129:3,
130:25, 131:10,
131:17, 137:14,
143:19, 162:11, 171:2,
171:3, 172:11, 173:15
Family [1] - 88:15
family's [2] - 101:14,
102:20
far [6] - 40:14, 41:2,
67:12, 96:10, 138:5,
158:14
far-reaching [1] - 138:5
farm [3] - 64:12, 150:4,
150:5
fashion [2] - 7:17, 7:19
faster [2] - 156:6, 156:17
father [5] - 29:18,
100:12, 164:16,
164:17, 171:11
fathers [1] - 113:19
favourable [1] - 38:7
fear [6] - 19:15, 19:21,
153:8, 153:9, 153:19,
154:3
feared [1] - 19:4
feature [1] - 24:18
February [2] - 70:8, 70:9
federal [3] - 20:1, 59:4,
59:9
Federal [1] - 91:2
fee [3] - 7:20, 115:20,
118:4
fee-based [1] - 118:4
feelings [1] - 73:7
fees [3] - 36:19, 88:3,
122:7
feet [3] - 24:10, 117:2,
119:12
fell [1] - 78:18
fellow [1] - 161:16
felt [1] - 19:5
fetal [2] - 84:14
fetal-alcohol [1] - 84:14
few [12] - 2:20, 18:10,
48:6, 48:13, 55:8,
66:9, 67:3, 98:25,
121:19, 130:6, 154:15,
158:22
fewer [1] - 81:5
field [1] - 135:21
fields [1] - 127:21
fight [1] - 118:23
fighting [1] - 128:9
figure [2] - 45:8, 66:19
file [11] - 41:22, 46:7,
109:24, 110:6, 112:19,
128:11, 128:12,
x
146:16, 164:14,
172:12, 174:21
filed [5] - 68:13, 68:17,
68:22, 69:3
files [14] - 33:23, 34:6,
34:9, 34:14, 41:13,
46:6, 93:4, 93:5, 95:8,
95:22, 130:9, 130:12,
162:9, 166:1
fill [4] - 4:5, 82:8,
129:17, 134:3
filled [1] - 101:22
filling [8] - 74:24, 76:2,
143:8, 143:9, 145:19,
147:12, 154:24
final [3] - 58:22, 59:19,
138:1
finally [2] - 16:5, 120:6
financial [7] - 56:24,
62:4, 62:5, 96:18,
99:18, 116:4, 138:13
financially [3] - 66:21,
100:10, 116:16
financing [1] - 59:10
findings [1] - 61:15
finish [1] - 96:4
finished [3] - 59:16,
121:24, 173:17
fire [3] - 170:22, 171:10,
171:18
firm [5] - 63:11, 127:3,
141:25, 147:4, 147:6
firmly [1] - 68:5
First [4] - 64:18, 72:10,
73:9, 89:25
first [26] - 5:24, 6:23,
14:20, 16:12, 21:1,
21:3, 23:11, 25:16,
29:12, 29:14, 30:4,
34:13, 63:13, 77:8,
82:22, 87:14, 97:11,
97:13, 115:8, 115:9,
127:10, 144:5, 157:3,
157:4, 157:24, 157:25
first-hand [1] - 144:5
firsthand [1] - 21:15
firstly [1] - 45:13
fiscal [3] - 96:12, 96:25,
97:11
fish [2] - 165:8
fit [2] - 6:21, 147:19
five [18] - 2:22, 10:24,
42:14, 47:20, 49:19,
66:8, 73:13, 73:15,
79:15, 79:16, 106:14,
119:18, 136:2, 139:22,
144:14, 162:8, 162:9,
169:14
five-minute [1] - 2:22
Fixing [1] - 59:17
fleeing [1] - 27:22
flesh [1] - 111:10
fleshed [1] - 110:20
flexible [1] - 133:3
flood [1] - 167:16
floor [2] - 125:2, 131:16
flowing [1] - 16:22
focus [9] - 13:1, 13:13,
18:19, 18:22, 19:17,
21:14, 27:5, 73:1
focussed [2] - 20:7, 43:3
focussing [2] - 30:8,
68:10
folks [1] - 10:16
follow [1] - 72:24
food [1] - 50:5
Foods [1] - 165:9
foot [1] - 23:24
footnotes [1] - 62:25
force [2] - 55:14, 55:23
forehead [1] - 165:18
foremost [1] - 23:11
forget [1] - 14:18
form [13] - 4:9, 21:5,
21:22, 36:8, 42:21,
76:7, 82:9, 143:8,
143:9, 144:19, 145:15,
145:18, 145:19
formal [2] - 9:13, 72:5
formalized [1] - 7:12
former [1] - 5:7
formerly [3] - 10:22,
17:11, 165:1
forms [5] - 74:24, 76:3,
76:6, 126:5, 147:12
forth [1] - 176:6
FortisBC [1] - 63:24
fortitude [1] - 50:16
forum [1] - 123:18
forums [2] - 18:17,
157:13
forward [12] - 23:24,
70:18, 71:2, 71:7,
72:3, 72:5, 116:7,
116:9, 116:10, 142:14,
157:24
Foundation [12] - 9:15,
12:22, 15:17, 18:14,
56:7, 66:12, 66:17,
77:6, 140:20, 150:4,
150:20, 150:21
foundation [1] - 6:19
Foundation-funded [1]
- 77:6
four [11] - 5:18, 33:25,
38:3, 46:10, 47:14,
63:11, 72:20, 97:19,
122:8, 151:23, 172:13
four-hour [1] - 38:3
four-month [1] - 72:20
four-year-old [1] 172:13
fracture [1] - 164:21
frame [1] - 52:16
France [1] - 79:12
frank [2] - 14:11, 92:20
frankly [7] - 8:10, 11:16,
12:17, 16:2, 41:7,
86:3, 92:25
Fraser [6] - 105:20,
105:21, 106:15,
108:12, 141:1, 174:12
fraud [3] - 65:9, 65:11,
169:11
free [3] - 6:8, 8:4, 11:19
freedom [1] - 57:10
frequently [1] - 82:5
Friday [3] - 73:15,
112:17, 141:11
front [7] - 8:7, 9:9,
18:21, 44:6, 53:2,
78:11, 151:22
front-line [3] - 18:21,
53:2, 78:11
frontline [1] - 72:19
frustration [1] - 114:1
full [16] - 2:25, 4:17,
10:11, 10:15, 10:19,
39:17, 60:4, 72:10,
73:13, 77:6, 96:2,
96:6, 96:25, 97:23,
124:14, 133:4
full-service [1] - 96:2
full-time [5] - 4:17,
10:11, 72:10, 73:13,
77:6
fully [2] - 7:10, 122:14
function [3] - 81:13,
82:3, 84:22
functioning [2] - 83:3,
83:8
Fund [1] - 51:19
fund [3] - 43:10, 125:9,
128:13
fundamental [1] - 46:22
fundamentally [1] 32:12
funded [28] - 6:4, 7:24,
9:15, 17:15, 45:7,
51:9, 68:14, 68:25,
71:14, 77:2, 77:4,
77:6, 90:25, 92:17,
105:8, 120:25, 129:20,
132:9, 132:12, 132:16,
142:24, 149:24, 150:1,
150:4, 150:8, 150:9,
150:17, 160:10
funding [33] - 11:24,
26:20, 28:1, 62:10,
66:11, 66:16, 67:20,
67:22, 68:5, 68:17,
69:2, 69:18, 69:19,
69:20, 70:6, 70:17,
70:19, 71:8, 72:2,
78:22, 86:3, 92:2,
104:9, 104:10, 108:14,
130:16, 132:18, 139:3,
142:18, 142:25,
149:25, 160:19
funds [6] - 1:15, 119:9,
137:20, 137:22, 138:6,
150:22
funny [1] - 130:13
furniture [1] - 49:11
future [7] - 1:19, 49:24,
86:24, 98:22, 117:22,
125:14, 133:17
G
gain [1] - 41:21
GAIN [1] - 91:5
gained [1] - 53:23
gains [1] - 61:8
gal [1] - 166:6
gamut [1] - 75:10
gap [3] - 25:25, 52:10,
120:19
gaps [4] - 14:7, 52:15,
129:17, 134:3
garage [1] - 113:6
Gas [1] - 63:24
gash [1] - 165:17
gasoline [1] - 171:18
gathering [1] - 135:17
Gauthier [2] - 126:23,
127:5
GAUTHIER [4] - 127:5,
129:5, 133:6, 135:8
gee [1] - 121:8
general [3] - 52:6, 100:1,
107:18
General [7] - 5:8, 9:6,
9:14, 15:18, 16:13,
31:12, 36:18
General's [1] - 120:9
generally [2] - 18:5,
45:18
gentleman [4] - 91:10,
165:1, 173:4, 174:15
geographical [1] 162:13
geographically [1] 76:18
Germany [1] - 79:12
girls [1] - 163:10
gist [1] - 124:22
given [11] - 16:2, 25:24,
49:25, 50:3, 62:11,
70:19, 126:6, 139:2,
143:19, 153:16,
154:13
glad [1] - 125:5
glass [1] - 167:10
Gleeson [3] - 161:2,
161:3, 173:8
GLEESON [17] - 161:3,
161:9, 161:13, 161:15,
161:22, 162:14,
162:16, 164:2, 164:4,
164:7, 164:10, 164:19,
164:24, 168:19,
171:10, 171:18,
174:25
goal [2] - 35:18, 106:16
gobs [2] - 114:9, 115:14
god [2] - 54:4, 113:16
going-forward [1] - 71:2
golly [1] - 115:7
Googled [2] - 173:21,
173:22
Gordon's [1] - 151:15
govern [1] - 55:24
governed [1] - 31:7
government [21] 17:20, 20:1, 46:1,
47:15, 52:6, 55:1,
59:4, 66:13, 68:1,
68:19, 88:9, 88:18,
105:8, 114:4, 118:20,
118:24, 119:24, 120:3,
120:21, 120:23,
120:25
government's [1] 123:4
governments [4] - 2:18,
55:14, 55:23, 157:6
grace [1] - 162:1
graduate [1] - 117:25
graduated [2] - 126:24,
127:6
graduates [3] - 77:18,
130:7, 135:9
grand [1] - 174:7
grant [2] - 49:13, 70:17
Granville [1] - 83:18
grateful [1] - 66:17
gratuitously [1] - 90:3
great [17] - 52:11, 53:4,
53:18, 54:17, 56:7,
58:10, 60:16, 62:23,
64:5, 85:23, 93:23,
114:9, 115:14, 142:18,
151:1, 158:2, 159:15
greater [5] - 13:17,
33:15, 46:8, 133:8,
144:13
greatest [4] - 9:23,
152:17, 153:9, 154:3
greatly [6] - 35:16,
35:17, 36:3, 36:20,
46:16, 71:12
greedy [1] - 114:10
green [1] - 115:4
grief [1] - 133:15
grim [1] - 130:12
grinding [1] - 41:20
xi
gross [2] - 61:10, 93:18
grounding [1] - 56:11
grounds [1] - 26:19
group [12] - 9:13, 16:13,
57:5, 60:18, 81:16,
84:4, 84:6, 84:7,
84:17, 142:17, 149:24
Group [2] - 60:19,
106:22
groups [16] - 2:7, 16:14,
18:19, 18:22, 19:17,
21:14, 27:6, 62:9,
65:17, 67:14, 70:4,
76:17, 82:22, 84:24,
137:25, 143:22
growth [1] - 60:24
guess [8] - 70:8, 71:5,
86:19, 90:23, 93:19,
101:7, 102:6, 126:18
guesstimate [1] - 146:7
guidance [1] - 26:7
guide [1] - 44:21
guiding [1] - 112:20
guilty [11] - 41:12, 44:8,
49:23, 91:15, 98:14,
100:3, 101:1, 101:6,
102:23, 137:21,
172:20
gun [2] - 162:23, 172:21
Gurpreet [1] - 136:11
guy [8] - 101:13, 148:8,
173:8, 173:13, 173:17,
173:24, 173:25,
174:10
Gwen [1] - 70:1
H
habit [1] - 15:8
half [6] - 81:11, 84:22,
112:13, 139:25,
140:22, 163:11
hall [1] - 168:2
hallmark [1] - 38:20
halls [1] - 113:24
hand [1] - 144:5
handle [1] - 41:9
handsomely [2] - 124:6,
124:7
Harassment [1] - 62:19
hard [10] - 28:3, 41:16,
49:11, 57:24, 58:11,
92:25, 93:6, 118:23,
165:24, 166:19
Harder [1] - 62:20
harm [2] - 70:16, 165:19
Hastings [1] - 72:12
hat [1] - 5:16
hate [1] - 83:17
hazard [1] - 61:21
head [3] - 117:11,
117:20, 171:25
heal [1] - 41:18
health [10] - 61:22,
76:20, 86:12, 86:15,
86:17, 104:21, 105:9,
137:5, 154:9
Health [1] - 87:20
healthy [2] - 120:13,
120:15
hear [11] - 3:6, 109:8,
114:14, 129:8, 130:10,
130:12, 136:6, 151:2,
151:20, 172:22,
172:23
heard [15] - 8:23, 10:18,
34:18, 41:24, 70:7,
78:9, 82:24, 86:6,
96:13, 109:12, 111:22,
130:3, 156:2, 169:24,
175:5
hearing [10] - 2:23,
25:24, 26:3, 67:15,
69:18, 96:6, 111:17,
122:11, 135:25,
136:21
hearings [4] - 25:10,
40:13, 98:14, 148:17
heaved [1] - 165:15
heavily [1] - 73:4
height [1] - 10:23
held [8] - 11:14, 18:19,
27:6, 42:10, 50:21,
50:25, 51:1
Hello [1] - 1:6
hello [1] - 72:9
help [42] - 6:15, 6:19,
8:5, 10:7, 12:18,
23:15, 24:8, 36:10,
42:19, 45:16, 52:3,
73:2, 73:4, 73:5,
74:11, 75:19, 76:2,
76:5, 78:2, 82:6,
85:24, 87:1, 94:1,
111:23, 114:9, 116:12,
127:18, 128:1, 137:19,
138:17, 138:22,
140:11, 142:3, 143:9,
153:5, 155:1, 159:15,
163:15, 169:13,
169:20, 171:5, 173:5
helped [5] - 46:17,
124:16, 132:10,
159:13, 170:13
helpful [9] - 2:3, 2:9,
36:9, 76:12, 86:8,
134:14, 135:22,
141:15, 149:6
helping [8] - 48:4,
104:11, 112:19,
112:20, 120:11,
132:13, 141:18, 143:7
helps [1] - 153:5
hem [1] - 166:9
Henry [2] - 72:8, 72:9
HENRY [23] - 72:9,
73:22, 74:5, 74:10,
74:16, 74:19, 75:1,
75:7, 75:12, 75:14,
75:23, 76:1, 76:5,
76:9, 76:13, 76:16,
77:3, 77:19, 77:24,
81:25, 84:13, 84:20,
86:8
HEPNER [6] - 107:12,
108:23, 109:1, 109:4,
123:20, 124:4
Hepner [1] - 87:10
hereby [1] - 176:4
herein [1] - 176:6
hereunto [1] - 176:10
herself [1] - 99:7
hidden [1] - 80:3
hide [2] - 164:22, 168:12
HIEBERT [3] - 16:11,
22:10, 39:1
Hiebert [1] - 1:9
high [4] - 14:22, 18:11,
111:4, 117:25
high-priced [1] - 117:25
higher [4] - 63:21, 65:7,
80:20, 118:8
highlight [2] - 5:19,
18:25
highly [2] - 125:3, 125:6
himself [5] - 21:10,
50:16, 128:24, 165:15,
171:22
hind [1] - 119:12
hire [3] - 58:13, 62:5,
93:12
historical [2] - 51:24,
54:1
historically [2] - 165:2,
167:3
history [1] - 111:24
hit [2] - 125:11, 165:16
hits [1] - 153:12
hmm [1] - 50:5
hold [2] - 3:2, 169:9
holds [1] - 11:10
home [6] - 13:15, 24:6,
37:16, 99:1, 162:19,
167:16
homeless [3] - 78:25,
132:1, 132:6
homelessness [1] 48:18
homes [1] - 20:4
Honour [2] - 161:23,
162:1
hook [1] - 21:11
hookers [1] - 173:11
hope [5] - 17:3, 43:18,
72:5, 86:24, 170:13
hopefully [1] - 1:21
hoping [1] - 160:8
horribly [1] - 57:12
Horton's [1] - 168:12
hospitals [1] - 164:11
host [2] - 27:10, 30:1
hotels [2] - 83:18, 83:19
hour [2] - 38:3, 112:10
hours [21] - 25:12,
45:18, 45:21, 45:22,
65:24, 78:23, 89:20,
89:21, 109:13, 109:16,
109:21, 112:13, 122:2,
138:11, 139:16, 150:2,
150:3, 150:8, 150:9,
150:12, 150:17
house [11] - 49:14, 58:5,
58:8, 58:13, 62:6,
62:8, 162:17, 162:20,
165:22, 171:10,
171:18
housing [12] - 47:11,
48:1, 48:17, 49:11,
61:2, 128:17, 128:18,
128:19, 128:21,
130:25, 131:21, 137:4
Housing [1] - 128:5
HR [1] - 144:2
HST [2] - 58:25, 59:2
hub [3] - 51:3, 64:25
huge [9] - 36:10, 56:1,
57:16, 69:7, 69:22,
84:25, 116:3, 131:23,
156:10
human [8] - 14:16,
52:21, 55:11, 57:10,
64:14, 67:19, 87:23,
91:4
humanitarian [4] 20:23, 26:12, 26:18,
76:9
humble [3] - 9:21, 14:8,
139:16
hundred [3] - 7:2, 78:21,
161:24
hundreds [5] - 65:3,
65:4, 65:5, 65:10
Huntington [1] - 3:4
HUNTINGTON [1] 43:23
hurry [1] - 100:15
hurt [1] - 173:10
hurts [1] - 33:14
husband [2] - 98:23,
99:16
Hydro [2] - 63:23, 66:14
I
IAL [1] - 79:10
idea [9] - 39:1, 82:16,
83:7, 83:8, 85:25,
125:25, 147:16,
147:17, 155:3
ideas [1] - 133:17
identified [4] - 18:23,
24:17, 48:24, 52:24
identifies [1] - 80:4
identify [1] - 30:10
identifying [2] - 107:20,
107:21
ignoring [1] - 55:14
ill [2] - 46:4, 85:2
ill-prepared [1] - 85:2
illiterate [1] - 140:9
illustrates [1] - 51:15
imagine [3] - 45:23,
46:20, 49:7
imagining [1] - 47:3
imbue [1] - 53:19
immeasurable [2] 39:15, 41:21
immediate [1] - 110:19
immediately [1] - 155:6
immigrant [15] - 17:24,
18:4, 18:12, 18:16,
18:20, 19:3, 21:1,
21:8, 26:19, 27:9,
29:25, 30:13, 111:4,
137:9, 149:12
immigrants [5] - 29:8,
29:9, 30:3, 140:8,
149:10
immigration [26] 19:20, 20:2, 20:3,
20:6, 20:16, 21:23,
22:14, 24:24, 25:3,
27:5, 27:11, 27:16,
27:19, 28:7, 68:9,
76:1, 76:10, 87:24,
89:12, 90:9, 90:21,
91:2, 130:24, 131:18,
137:5, 137:14
impact [10] - 5:15,
26:25, 49:24, 51:7,
52:16, 61:13, 78:11,
131:1, 131:23, 138:4
Impact [1] - 60:17
impacting [1] - 48:8
impacts [1] - 5:14
impartial [1] - 44:11
impeded [1] - 51:2
implication [1] - 6:12
implications [1] 137:24
importance [1] - 31:3
important [7] - 13:13,
27:24, 44:12, 56:9,
82:1, 86:4, 145:12
importantly [1] - 14:8
imposed [1] - 45:25
xii
imposes [1] - 102:13
impossible [2] - 118:13,
130:4
impression [2] - 38:4,
103:17
impressive [1] - 2:2
improve [1] - 1:22
improved [2] - 111:18,
157:20
improvement [2] 26:22, 123:24
improving [1] - 158:7
IN [1] - 176:10
in-house [5] - 58:5,
58:8, 58:13, 62:6, 62:8
in-person [1] - 76:24
inability [1] - 109:18
inadequacy [1] - 30:11
incarcerating [1] - 119:1
incarnations [1] - 4:16
incentives [1] - 138:12
incidentally [1] - 82:4
include [3] - 39:7, 57:4,
84:16
included [4] - 16:8,
91:20, 112:5, 129:20
includes [3] - 82:21,
110:18, 172:11
including [11] - 4:13,
4:21, 8:19, 9:11,
12:21, 34:16, 64:10,
64:18, 129:19, 131:10,
169:19
income [34] - 47:24,
47:25, 48:13, 49:9,
59:10, 61:6, 61:11,
63:22, 64:10, 64:11,
65:2, 65:15, 66:22,
67:2, 67:6, 67:24,
68:15, 68:18, 71:13,
71:17, 72:23, 73:11,
78:16, 79:1, 79:2,
79:5, 82:5, 91:6, 92:5,
105:9, 126:13, 128:22,
131:6, 133:21
income-assistance [1] 105:9
inconvenience [1] 40:24
increase [10] - 18:15,
33:23, 34:6, 62:9,
81:21, 81:22, 108:13,
108:18, 108:19,
108:21
increased [6] - 11:24,
34:5, 39:14, 45:14,
88:2, 112:9
increasing [3] - 60:25,
112:16, 138:10
increasingly [3] - 33:22,
34:3, 173:19
incredibly [1] - 130:12
incurring [1] - 21:17
indeed [1] - 93:23
independence [7] 56:6, 56:10, 57:2,
58:14, 62:3, 62:4,
120:22
independent [3] - 56:17,
114:7, 118:1
independently [1] 59:12
indicate [5] - 7:15,
95:24, 96:24, 152:22,
154:16
indicated [1] - 42:7
indicates [1] - 79:17
indices [1] - 85:14
indigent [1] - 61:5
individual [5] - 79:18,
79:22, 129:8, 133:9,
154:12
individually [1] - 107:13
individuals [9] - 6:5,
25:6, 50:12, 63:14,
76:25, 127:16, 154:1,
154:15
ineligible [1] - 24:7
inequality [1] - 52:5
inevitable [1] - 28:13
inevitably [2] - 33:13,
65:22
inexperienced [1] 90:11
infamous [2] - 91:9,
91:13
influx [1] - 140:1
informal [1] - 7:18
information [33] - 14:1,
15:12, 15:24, 29:1,
51:3, 52:20, 52:25,
57:12, 79:21, 79:23,
80:6, 105:5, 105:23,
106:19, 108:7, 110:12,
110:25, 111:2, 111:3,
111:7, 139:8, 140:3,
140:14, 140:15,
140:16, 143:6, 144:6,
144:16, 144:18, 145:1,
145:15, 145:25,
146:17
informative [1] - 144:24
informed [1] - 138:3
initiate [1] - 18:14
initiated [1] - 11:6
initiatives [1] - 63:17
injuries [1] - 84:13
injury [5] - 84:7, 84:8,
84:9, 84:15, 84:18
innocence [1] - 33:7
instances [4] - 8:16,
14:10, 39:24, 138:1
institute [1] - 59:12
instituted [1] - 59:3
institution [1] - 115:24
intake [9] - 109:16,
109:19, 109:20,
110:11, 110:21,
110:24, 111:18,
111:23, 111:24
integrate [1] - 104:24
integrated [2] - 104:15,
105:7
integration [1] - 58:15
intellectual [1] - 123:16
intellectuals [1] - 114:16
intend [1] - 125:12
intended [1] - 81:7
intention [1] - 2:13
interact [1] - 131:6
interconnect [1] 127:23
Intercultural [1] - 136:12
interest [5] - 54:25,
57:8, 58:19, 62:8,
175:10
Interest [1] - 63:9
interested [4] - 57:25,
59:23, 129:23, 135:10
interesting [5] - 77:7,
130:17, 161:4, 163:6,
167:20
interestingly [1] - 80:21
interests [2] - 2:7,
172:16
interim [7] - 69:5, 69:18,
69:20, 70:6, 70:12,
70:13, 70:17
international [2] - 54:17,
62:12
International [1] - 79:9
internet [5] - 10:2,
52:11, 155:12, 156:9,
173:18
internet's [1] - 98:4
interpreters [2] - 28:1,
28:2
interrupt [2] - 73:17,
106:5
intersection [1] - 52:4
intervention [1] - 53:15
interviewing [1] - 83:16
interviews [1] - 164:5
intimate [1] - 98:19
introduce [1] - 2:21
introduced [1] - 139:12
invested [1] - 143:16
investment [3] - 60:23,
61:19, 61:20
invisible [1] - 84:4
invited [1] - 70:17
inviting [1] - 150:25
involve [1] - 164:5
involved [15] - 13:17,
18:20, 20:1, 22:8,
22:19, 40:16, 41:23,
53:14, 64:8, 80:1,
90:14, 128:8, 130:11,
142:18, 161:20
involving [6] - 18:12,
63:23, 64:9, 68:15,
91:10, 95:23
IQ [1] - 83:1
Ireland [1] - 79:12
irreparable [1] - 70:15
issue [42] - 2:17, 6:18,
13:1, 21:12, 27:13,
28:19, 28:20, 32:5,
32:16, 33:6, 34:23,
36:23, 37:22, 51:17,
52:7, 52:8, 54:21,
56:3, 56:10, 57:14,
62:3, 70:14, 82:11,
82:19, 85:12, 94:7,
104:9, 104:13, 109:21,
109:25, 110:15,
116:25, 124:2, 129:1,
129:3, 131:8, 131:9,
153:25, 154:17,
156:10, 171:11, 175:7
issues [103] - 2:20, 6:17,
13:11, 20:2, 20:9,
20:20, 37:4, 38:10,
40:18, 44:15, 45:12,
46:12, 48:5, 48:16,
52:17, 53:2, 54:19,
55:6, 61:2, 63:16,
64:10, 64:14, 66:23,
69:1, 69:10, 70:19,
74:6, 75:18, 76:20,
78:4, 78:5, 90:13,
96:5, 104:19, 104:21,
106:24, 106:25,
107:21, 109:11,
109:14, 110:15,
110:17, 110:19,
110:20, 111:7, 111:10,
111:20, 127:18,
127:20, 127:22,
127:24, 128:7, 128:22,
128:25, 129:2, 130:24,
130:25, 131:9, 131:11,
131:12, 131:14,
131:20, 131:22, 132:5,
132:6, 132:7, 132:11,
132:15, 133:8, 133:16,
134:13, 134:17,
137:11, 137:13,
137:15, 139:24, 141:8,
141:20, 142:22,
143:19, 143:20,
144:15, 144:19,
144:25, 145:2, 145:6,
145:8, 146:6, 146:9,
146:15, 146:20,
148:18, 148:19, 150:5,
152:14, 153:12,
154:10
it'll [2] - 59:17, 133:23
itself [2] - 123:7, 155:16
J
Jagrup [1] - 1:10
jail [17] - 50:20, 96:16,
100:10, 100:24, 101:5,
101:6, 101:13, 101:16,
102:16, 102:21,
115:21, 116:14,
116:18, 119:6, 132:2,
132:3, 132:11
janitor [1] - 167:3
January [2] - 70:8, 70:9
Jennifer [2] - 30:18,
30:20
Jesus [1] - 166:8
job [9] - 37:15, 67:15,
80:11, 99:2, 100:16,
114:4, 114:7, 147:5,
167:1
jobs [4] - 60:25, 66:22,
135:12, 135:14
JobWave [1] - 49:10
Jodie [5] - 126:23,
127:5, 127:12, 127:13,
131:17
Joe [1] - 49:8
joining [1] - 51:15
joint [4] - 157:15,
158:11, 159:11,
159:12
Judge [2] - 161:23,
162:1
judge [14] - 31:19, 32:9,
37:10, 39:21, 43:15,
44:6, 44:7, 45:20,
102:13, 116:11, 144:9,
170:8, 172:22, 173:14
judge's [2] - 91:13,
122:13
judges [5] - 42:8, 45:2,
102:14, 124:5, 173:16
judging [1] - 119:1
judgment [2] - 82:20,
84:23
judgment-related [2] 82:20, 84:23
judicial [3] - 31:15,
45:14, 48:19
July [1] - 50:15
jump [1] - 142:4
June [2] - 72:16, 108:20
jury [1] - 31:19
justice [35] - 12:11,
28:11, 31:4, 33:18,
33:20, 34:25, 35:19,
38:16, 38:24, 39:2,
xiii
43:9, 45:5, 46:22,
50:8, 52:17, 54:19,
56:2, 57:11, 62:14,
63:14, 63:16, 63:25,
64:10, 67:19, 71:11,
71:20, 72:22, 92:13,
92:15, 93:15, 106:17,
129:24, 135:13, 173:3
Justice [7] - 4:4, 9:6,
13:25, 16:8, 23:6,
88:10, 113:14
K
Kamaljit [3] - 17:3, 17:9,
65:25
Kamloops [1] - 119:10
keenness [1] - 123:16
keep [5] - 100:16,
115:24, 123:3, 159:2,
160:21
keeping [2] - 104:11,
119:5
kept [2] - 7:9, 122:7
key [2] - 56:9, 154:7
keys [1] - 168:5
Khan [2] - 63:6, 63:8
KHAN [3] - 63:7, 69:14,
69:17
kicking [2] - 119:12,
125:2
kid [1] - 174:12
kid's [1] - 164:14
kids [13] - 98:25, 99:16,
99:21, 163:9, 163:12,
163:19, 164:12, 166:2,
166:18, 169:23,
169:24, 171:3, 172:11
kill [1] - 162:25
kind [23] - 13:2, 29:12,
29:21, 40:3, 48:25,
50:5, 62:11, 69:12,
72:17, 74:1, 74:3,
76:11, 84:18, 86:10,
122:25, 125:16,
125:21, 126:7, 140:23,
147:11, 158:16, 168:5
kinds [7] - 52:11, 64:9,
67:18, 67:23, 69:5,
82:14, 149:5
Kingsway [1] - 173:12
kit [2] - 140:11, 143:9
kitchen [2] - 47:14,
167:13
knapsack [1] - 124:14
knowing [6] - 21:2, 49:1,
101:2, 137:23, 173:4
knowledge [15] - 12:16,
13:3, 14:9, 73:11,
77:15, 137:15, 137:17,
137:20, 142:20,
143:10, 145:8, 149:9,
149:11, 149:18,
149:20
knowledgeable [1] 12:13
known [4] - 17:11,
20:23, 50:17, 91:11
knows [2] - 100:25,
124:10
L
lack [20] - 14:8, 26:1,
28:10, 28:24, 45:2,
45:4, 45:6, 70:15,
71:19, 104:20, 109:25,
113:18, 137:17,
137:19, 137:20,
137:22, 138:6, 140:13,
140:15
lacking [1] - 123:23
ladder [1] - 147:13
ladies [3] - 162:20,
173:11, 173:12
lady [2] - 167:17, 168:1
laid [1] - 79:25
landing [1] - 20:24
landlord [4] - 167:18,
167:24, 169:2, 169:3
landlords [2] - 48:23,
49:1
lands [1] - 9:10
Langley [2] - 76:23,
143:8
language [20] - 21:3,
28:19, 58:16, 66:24,
85:6, 85:7, 85:12,
85:14, 109:25, 111:21,
112:21, 112:23, 137:6,
140:4, 140:9, 140:12,
142:4, 143:7, 149:9,
149:10
large [13] - 4:5, 53:1,
56:3, 87:19, 90:6,
103:1, 103:5, 103:18,
103:19, 103:25, 104:1,
126:5, 154:5
largely [2] - 56:1, 85:19
larger [1] - 156:24
last [21] - 13:15, 18:10,
34:7, 50:10, 67:3,
70:8, 71:4, 81:18,
86:2, 88:13, 96:25,
106:14, 117:5, 121:19,
130:14, 139:12,
139:21, 144:13, 157:8,
167:6, 169:16
lastly [2] - 33:6, 36:22
late [6] - 79:9, 163:24,
164:22, 164:25, 166:3,
166:7
lately [1] - 44:25
latent [1] - 11:6
Law [33] - 4:1, 8:25,
9:15, 10:21, 12:22,
15:4, 15:17, 15:23,
18:14, 31:9, 51:3,
56:7, 62:6, 64:22,
64:25, 66:12, 66:17,
72:21, 75:14, 75:16,
77:6, 80:22, 118:9,
127:7, 138:8, 140:20,
150:4, 150:19, 150:21,
158:25
law [116] - 5:15, 7:15,
9:24, 9:25, 10:12,
11:25, 12:2, 12:4,
13:18, 20:14, 21:23,
24:25, 27:2, 27:4,
27:5, 27:15, 27:18,
28:7, 30:20, 32:6,
32:8, 39:12, 44:2,
51:24, 51:25, 52:5,
52:10, 53:17, 53:19,
53:21, 54:8, 54:15,
55:16, 56:12, 56:15,
57:6, 57:7, 59:5, 60:3,
61:7, 63:10, 63:13,
63:16, 64:1, 64:17,
67:22, 68:6, 68:17,
69:1, 69:10, 73:23,
73:24, 74:1, 74:2,
74:3, 74:11, 77:8,
77:9, 77:13, 77:18,
77:20, 77:25, 78:1,
78:4, 78:5, 78:6,
86:18, 90:21, 91:22,
106:21, 106:22,
106:24, 106:25, 107:1,
114:14, 116:17,
117:17, 126:25, 127:3,
127:11, 127:15,
127:21, 127:22,
127:24, 129:1, 129:3,
129:22, 129:23,
129:24, 130:24,
130:25, 131:6, 131:8,
131:10, 131:11,
131:17, 131:18,
131:19, 134:22, 135:3,
135:9, 141:25, 147:4,
147:6, 147:22, 148:21,
149:11, 149:18,
168:21, 170:4, 174:9
lawmakers [1] - 52:5
laws [4] - 55:23, 65:14,
67:24, 137:16
lawyer [52] - 3:20, 4:17,
11:19, 11:20, 17:10,
23:22, 25:1, 26:7,
27:4, 27:19, 28:3,
31:21, 35:3, 37:7,
37:10, 44:14, 58:8,
63:9, 69:20, 77:12,
88:6, 90:11, 92:17,
92:18, 93:16, 94:24,
99:5, 99:20, 106:8,
113:4, 114:21, 115:11,
118:19, 121:20,
134:24, 140:19,
146:23, 146:24,
147:20, 147:23,
147:25, 148:2, 148:10,
163:3, 163:5, 165:25,
169:13, 170:20, 172:9,
174:7
lawyer's [2] - 109:21,
120:20
lawyers [91] - 4:23, 7:2,
7:16, 10:11, 10:24,
25:21, 27:8, 54:8,
57:5, 57:6, 57:7, 57:9,
58:19, 62:8, 63:11,
64:3, 65:20, 68:2,
68:7, 70:1, 71:10,
71:16, 77:11, 91:21,
93:12, 94:7, 94:12,
94:19, 94:25, 95:2,
95:12, 95:23, 97:2,
103:11, 109:9, 109:13,
109:22, 110:3, 110:6,
113:22, 113:25,
116:18, 117:1, 117:5,
117:7, 117:9, 117:14,
117:23, 118:5, 119:10,
119:14, 120:10, 121:6,
121:8, 121:11, 121:12,
121:13, 122:1, 122:15,
123:9, 126:5, 126:8,
130:2, 132:12, 132:22,
133:3, 135:15, 138:9,
138:15, 138:24,
141:21, 145:10, 147:2,
147:21, 148:24,
152:21, 152:24,
152:25, 153:2, 153:24,
154:20, 159:6, 159:8,
159:23, 161:25,
169:17, 170:15,
170:23, 171:4
Lawyers' [1] - 54:15
lay [3] - 64:3, 67:5,
67:14
leading [1] - 18:16
leads [1] - 7:25
LEAF [6] - 51:18, 51:23,
52:17, 56:14, 58:4,
70:4
lean [3] - 92:7, 92:10,
93:22
leanest [2] - 93:21, 96:1
learn [2] - 130:8, 135:19
learning [1] - 80:10
leases [1] - 81:1
Leask's [1] - 57:23
least [7] - 12:24, 65:8,
65:9, 93:10, 93:13,
103:11, 154:14
leave [4] - 30:6, 46:3,
46:4, 108:9
Leaving [1] - 62:19
leaving [7] - 19:4, 24:4,
100:4, 110:12, 132:11,
163:13, 171:6
lectures [1] - 144:3
led [2] - 4:6, 60:23
left [10] - 8:18, 9:1,
21:10, 48:21, 86:19,
129:17, 134:3, 165:3,
167:17
Legal [35] - 1:8, 1:13,
2:21, 3:23, 4:16, 8:14,
9:1, 10:9, 12:3, 51:19,
51:20, 51:22, 55:4,
56:17, 59:14, 59:16,
60:17, 89:3, 91:19,
93:22, 98:2, 98:16,
99:18, 100:5, 106:15,
108:12, 108:15,
111:25, 115:1, 120:21,
120:22, 121:23,
155:23, 156:14, 170:6
legal [343] - 1:15, 1:16,
1:19, 1:22, 2:7, 3:7,
3:10, 4:20, 5:10, 6:1,
6:4, 6:5, 6:9, 6:14,
6:15, 6:17, 6:19, 7:24,
8:3, 8:4, 8:11, 9:8,
9:17, 9:23, 10:22,
11:11, 11:21, 12:11,
12:14, 12:17, 12:18,
12:25, 13:1, 17:23,
18:10, 21:20, 21:22,
22:2, 22:3, 23:9,
23:14, 23:18, 24:14,
24:18, 25:14, 25:18,
25:20, 26:14, 26:20,
27:15, 27:18, 27:22,
28:10, 28:24, 29:3,
29:6, 29:19, 30:7,
30:12, 31:3, 35:4,
35:17, 36:23, 37:4,
38:1, 38:10, 38:13,
38:23, 39:12, 39:18,
43:11, 43:23, 44:19,
45:7, 48:7, 48:10,
51:6, 51:8, 51:21,
52:1, 52:2, 52:7, 52:8,
52:15, 54:8, 54:13,
55:6, 55:10, 56:2,
56:11, 57:3, 57:15,
57:17, 58:3, 58:8,
58:19, 59:3, 60:22,
60:23, 61:1, 61:5,
61:6, 61:12, 61:16,
61:19, 61:20, 62:10,
62:21, 64:13, 64:17,
xiv
64:18, 64:19, 65:2,
65:21, 66:18, 66:20,
67:20, 68:3, 68:6,
69:1, 70:25, 71:19,
72:18, 73:3, 73:6,
75:19, 78:10, 81:23,
82:7, 85:2, 86:24,
86:25, 87:18, 88:1,
88:5, 88:25, 89:8,
89:9, 90:11, 90:25,
91:17, 92:3, 92:17,
92:22, 93:1, 93:4,
94:1, 95:2, 95:12,
95:20, 96:2, 96:15,
97:20, 97:23, 97:25,
98:3, 98:17, 105:5,
105:19, 105:23,
105:24, 106:3, 106:7,
106:13, 106:19, 107:8,
107:10, 108:7, 108:14,
109:7, 109:10, 110:3,
110:5, 111:9, 111:10,
111:13, 111:14,
111:16, 112:7, 112:21,
113:5, 113:7, 114:13,
116:22, 116:24,
117:10, 117:14,
117:18, 117:24, 119:2,
120:18, 125:14,
125:22, 125:24, 126:5,
126:13, 127:1, 127:11,
127:13, 127:17,
128:23, 129:9, 129:10,
129:13, 129:14,
129:15, 129:20, 130:1,
130:2, 130:4, 130:8,
130:11, 130:19,
130:20, 131:3, 131:4,
131:12, 132:5, 132:9,
132:12, 132:16,
132:17, 132:21,
132:25, 133:1, 133:6,
133:11, 133:12,
133:13, 133:16,
133:20, 133:21, 134:3,
134:4, 134:23, 134:24,
135:5, 135:10, 135:13,
135:16, 135:20,
136:16, 137:11,
137:15, 137:17,
137:19, 138:10, 139:1,
139:7, 139:8, 139:9,
140:18, 141:17,
141:19, 141:20,
141:25, 143:10,
145:14, 147:18,
147:24, 148:3, 148:4,
148:13, 148:15, 149:4,
149:6, 149:14, 150:3,
150:5, 150:7, 150:9,
150:20, 150:22,
152:10, 152:20,
152:21, 152:24, 153:5,
153:6, 153:11, 153:24,
154:10, 154:13,
154:18, 154:20,
154:22, 155:1, 155:5,
155:15, 155:22,
156:12, 156:19,
156:21, 156:22, 157:1,
157:5, 157:10, 157:12,
157:17, 157:20,
157:22, 158:3, 158:7,
158:19, 158:21,
158:23, 159:4, 159:8,
159:21, 159:23,
160:10, 160:11,
160:15, 160:17,
161:21, 169:15,
169:20, 170:12, 171:5,
172:3, 172:8, 172:16,
172:17, 173:7, 174:14,
174:23
legislation [2] - 49:17,
113:16
legislative [1] - 1:10
Lehal [3] - 17:3, 17:10,
65:25
LEHAL [11] - 17:5, 17:8,
18:1, 18:3, 21:21,
22:5, 22:17, 23:25,
27:1, 28:9, 29:24
Leonard [1] - 1:6
less [4] - 29:7, 46:6,
77:4, 105:12
letters [1] - 158:1
level [22] - 12:6, 45:12,
79:17, 79:24, 80:2,
80:3, 80:8, 80:13,
80:17, 81:10, 81:11,
81:20, 83:4, 83:8,
98:21, 98:22, 100:6,
102:6, 113:25, 114:1,
147:11
levels [6] - 79:16, 80:20,
80:21, 145:22, 147:10
liaison [2] - 89:14, 89:23
liberals [1] - 114:6
liberty [1] - 114:18
library [1] - 57:24
life [6] - 49:21, 80:15,
118:16, 121:13,
167:23, 173:6
likely [5] - 21:25, 24:7,
82:4, 102:16, 111:12
likewise [1] - 25:19
limit [1] - 118:11
limitation [1] - 145:23
limitations [3] - 45:25,
56:24, 103:7
limited [10] - 15:11,
24:19, 56:23, 86:5,
109:8, 109:16, 137:15,
149:8, 149:9, 149:20
limits [1] - 144:23
Line [10] - 4:1, 8:25,
10:21, 15:4, 51:3,
64:22, 64:25, 75:14,
75:16
line [4] - 18:21, 53:2,
78:11, 123:11
lineup [1] - 141:12
link [1] - 28:6
lip [3] - 120:8, 120:11,
120:12
lip-service [3] - 120:8,
120:11, 120:12
list [3] - 25:11, 35:6,
45:17
listed [2] - 161:5, 164:16
listen [2] - 119:25,
173:16
lists [1] - 36:25
Litchfield [1] - 3:11
literacy [12] - 79:6, 79:8,
79:11, 79:14, 80:8,
81:10, 82:20, 85:11,
86:12, 86:18, 149:10
Literacy [2] - 79:10,
80:23
literate [1] - 81:12
literature [3] - 10:3,
12:23, 81:16
litigants [1] - 59:24
litigation [6] - 33:22,
34:3, 51:25, 55:17,
63:25, 64:9
little-known [1] - 50:17
live [9] - 30:5, 48:8,
58:9, 83:17, 83:21,
83:22, 132:3, 155:18,
170:14
live-in [1] - 58:9
lived [4] - 83:17, 83:19,
84:2, 168:1
lives [8] - 41:18, 131:23,
133:5, 162:14, 162:17,
165:2, 165:5, 167:14
living [6] - 49:8, 58:5,
78:25, 125:24, 127:6,
155:19
loads [1] - 46:7
loan [2] - 62:7, 81:3
loans [2] - 81:1, 82:14
local [2] - 152:7, 164:11
located [3] - 72:12,
89:15, 89:17
location [8] - 10:16,
106:15, 135:6, 141:11,
142:16, 144:4, 149:1,
149:2
locations [1] - 89:24
lockstep [1] - 8:3
logger [1] - 165:1
logically [1] - 61:15
London [1] - 165:6
long-range [1] - 9:17
long-term [2] - 16:14,
137:24
look [11] - 53:25, 84:8,
84:20, 96:9, 100:4,
101:9, 104:9, 104:14,
122:24, 160:19
looked [2] - 79:13, 97:10
looking [8] - 33:23,
34:5, 52:3, 75:19,
97:9, 97:14, 100:23,
165:15
looks [1] - 161:11
loonies [1] - 173:1
loophole [1] - 48:25
Lopes [2] - 30:18, 30:20
LOPES [13] - 30:19,
34:3, 34:5, 39:4, 41:1,
41:7, 42:11, 42:21,
43:21, 44:4, 45:13,
47:6, 47:8
lords [1] - 48:24
Lorne [2] - 169:25,
170:2
lose [2] - 45:20, 94:21
losers [1] - 116:15
loses [1] - 32:3
losing [4] - 41:10, 57:7,
66:14
loss [9] - 33:17, 51:2,
51:6, 152:10, 152:11,
152:17, 157:18, 158:2,
163:14
lost [6] - 57:4, 57:5,
66:11, 94:17, 158:2,
167:1
Louise [1] - 147:6
love [5] - 152:22,
152:23, 156:13,
160:22, 171:4
lovely [1] - 166:6
low [22] - 48:13, 61:6,
63:22, 65:2, 66:22,
67:24, 71:13, 71:17,
72:23, 73:11, 78:16,
79:1, 79:5, 79:6, 79:7,
80:8, 82:5, 83:4, 92:5,
117:1, 131:6, 133:21
low-income [15] - 48:13,
61:6, 63:22, 65:2,
67:24, 71:13, 71:17,
72:23, 73:11, 78:16,
79:1, 82:5, 92:5,
131:6, 133:21
low-wage [1] - 66:22
Lower [2] - 107:5,
151:12
lower [2] - 49:8, 117:3
lowest [1] - 94:15
LSAT [3] - 139:8, 148:25
LSBC [1] - 16:13
LSS [7] - 9:14, 16:13,
56:16, 57:1, 62:2,
69:24, 90:4
luck [1] - 54:7
lucky [3] - 135:12,
151:24, 153:2
lunch [1] - 87:4
M
Maddock [1] - 147:24
mail [4] - 140:24, 151:1,
158:16
main [7] - 63:13, 69:18,
70:18, 72:25, 107:1,
141:5, 146:22
Main [2] - 72:12, 113:22
Mainland [2] - 107:5,
151:12
mainstream [1] - 107:9
maintained [1] - 35:13
Majesty [2] - 69:23,
119:23
major [4] - 81:22, 85:9,
152:11, 153:5
majority [4] - 7:15,
56:20, 153:8, 155:12
mall [1] - 165:4
man [3] - 165:14, 166:3,
174:21
manage [3] - 4:19, 80:7,
92:23
management [1] - 3:23
manager [6] - 4:1,
10:25, 144:2, 151:12,
156:2, 169:7
mandate [5] - 17:17,
55:15, 128:1, 129:4,
129:7
mandated [2] - 31:16,
131:14
mandatory [3] - 25:5,
25:9, 25:11
Mandy [2] - 105:16,
105:19
manner [3] - 109:9,
109:19, 161:20
Mansfield [1] - 80:22
mantras [1] - 7:24
manuals [1] - 107:17
Maple [1] - 169:18
March [2] - 96:12, 115:2
margarine [1] - 167:15
marginalized [3] 162:4, 169:21, 171:5
marital [1] - 48:6
married [1] - 19:9
Martin [2] - 1:11, 63:3
MARTIN [2] - 42:12,
43:13
xv
Mary [2] - 1:11, 63:3
material [2] - 79:25,
101:11
materials [1] - 53:1
maternity [1] - 46:3
math [1] - 97:7
matter [19] - 47:3, 54:14,
63:4, 89:12, 90:7,
91:3, 91:4, 91:6,
96:15, 99:13, 114:5,
115:23, 117:4, 123:8,
169:12, 171:20, 172:1,
172:22
matters [15] - 20:14,
21:23, 21:24, 55:11,
60:3, 88:10, 88:11,
89:10, 90:17, 90:22,
91:8, 127:25, 132:14,
137:17
Mayor [1] - 1:12
McNary [2] - 176:2,
176:16
mean [7] - 20:11, 59:7,
79:8, 91:12, 96:2,
99:23, 108:24
meaningful [1] - 62:14
means [5] - 34:16,
81:11, 88:7, 91:12,
97:2
measure [1] - 46:14
media [2] - 45:1, 140:2
Mediation [1] - 4:12
mediation [3] - 163:17,
164:8
mediations [1] - 4:13
mediator [1] - 4:12
mediators [1] - 164:10
medical [5] - 36:9,
36:14, 36:15, 48:5,
83:14
medication [1] - 166:9
medicine [1] - 79:20
medicolegal [1] - 36:19
meet [7] - 93:3, 95:19,
108:2, 108:6, 111:15,
156:11, 156:12
meeting [3] - 105:24,
121:10, 158:12
MEIA [2] - 48:12, 49:9
Melina [1] - 70:1
member [3] - 1:9, 1:10,
24:8
members [8] - 3:18,
16:17, 40:5, 40:25,
63:8, 107:18, 114:24,
158:5
memberships [1] 138:14
memorandum [1] 56:22
men [1] - 141:17
Mental [1] - 87:20
mental [7] - 76:20, 83:5,
104:21, 105:8, 130:22,
154:9, 154:17
mentally [1] - 117:7
mention [1] - 53:6
mentioned [2] - 64:23,
68:12
mercury [1] - 165:7
merged [1] - 4:7
message [3] - 56:9,
104:6, 124:23
met [3] - 67:17, 169:14,
173:17
methods [1] - 143:17
Michael [2] - 3:11, 3:12
mid [1] - 79:9
middle [3] - 59:10,
72:13, 170:5
might [19] - 18:3, 18:4,
37:24, 59:21, 70:10,
76:18, 79:22, 99:1,
100:13, 100:17, 133:9,
145:10, 146:20,
146:23, 167:11, 170:8,
170:9
million [2] - 65:9, 84:23
millions [1] - 118:25
mind [5] - 19:22, 23:12,
44:12, 117:17, 122:19
mind's [1] - 167:7
mine [1] - 173:24
minimally [1] - 115:16
minimize [1] - 110:15
minimum [2] - 80:14,
92:11
Ministry [6] - 9:5, 9:14,
15:18, 128:4, 128:11,
128:13
minority [3] - 12:24,
15:7, 29:9
minors [1] - 83:10
minus [1] - 115:8
minute [6] - 2:22, 73:18,
86:11, 124:20, 150:7,
169:3
minutes [7] - 2:20, 3:1,
85:8, 136:2, 144:21,
151:8, 151:25
misbegotten [1] - 114:8
missed [2] - 3:3, 60:25
missing [2] - 27:25, 28:6
Mission [1] - 72:11
mistake [1] - 100:21
mistaken [1] - 117:11
mistakes [1] - 103:7
misunderstanding [1] 110:17
mixed [3] - 58:1, 59:10,
113:5
mockery [1] - 120:16
model [26] - 16:9, 58:1,
58:5, 59:10, 62:2,
71:24, 71:25, 73:3,
73:4, 73:5, 82:7,
85:24, 130:15, 133:18,
133:19, 135:8, 135:17,
135:22, 141:7, 143:5,
143:18, 143:23,
145:21, 147:9, 147:14,
147:19
models [6] - 59:13,
71:23, 72:2, 141:15,
143:16, 149:5
modern [5] - 73:12,
81:1, 81:13, 82:4,
84:22
mom [3] - 99:1, 166:19,
173:17
moment [6] - 2:19, 32:5,
94:10, 123:22, 129:21,
164:1
Monday [3] - 73:15,
112:17, 168:17
money [20] - 23:3,
29:15, 29:20, 38:12,
43:7, 47:5, 58:21,
58:23, 60:14, 67:7,
67:12, 92:24, 114:9,
115:15, 120:5, 120:21,
133:14, 156:25,
162:21, 174:8
month [7] - 72:20,
81:19, 115:24, 127:3,
142:6, 144:1, 167:8
months [14] - 34:15,
38:9, 69:4, 77:10,
97:11, 97:13, 99:20,
99:21, 108:22, 125:19,
163:10, 169:23,
170:21, 174:11
mopped [1] - 168:7
morning [10] - 3:17,
3:19, 28:18, 30:19,
31:2, 42:12, 47:10,
154:9, 159:19, 162:8
mornings [1] - 73:15
mortgage [1] - 80:25
most [32] - 3:25, 11:21,
13:10, 14:25, 16:7,
16:8, 24:7, 33:10,
49:16, 52:22, 56:13,
57:12, 59:22, 64:2,
68:21, 78:15, 91:23,
94:13, 95:9, 95:13,
102:8, 106:23, 114:19,
116:22, 118:22,
133:19, 133:20,
140:21, 141:4, 144:25,
149:22, 149:25
mostly [2] - 137:20,
156:1
motel [1] - 171:14
mother [7] - 83:25, 84:1,
99:11, 164:16, 164:17,
166:6, 174:4
mothers [2] - 113:17,
113:19
motions [2] - 123:18,
123:19
motivation [1] - 118:6
Mount [1] - 103:24
mountain [3] - 124:12,
124:13, 124:16
mouths [1] - 117:3
move [1] - 41:17
movement [1] - 8:8
moves [1] - 147:13
MP [1] - 22:13
MR [60] - 3:17, 7:10,
7:22, 16:19, 17:2,
28:15, 44:24, 87:13,
93:13, 93:19, 97:5,
103:15, 103:17,
103:24, 104:3, 104:7,
113:2, 124:1, 124:5,
124:24, 125:7, 126:1,
126:4, 126:11, 126:15,
126:17, 126:21,
136:11, 136:22,
138:20, 138:22,
142:24, 147:15,
147:17, 147:23, 148:2,
148:5, 148:11, 148:13,
149:25, 150:9, 150:11,
150:13, 150:15,
150:17, 150:19,
150:25, 151:5, 151:7,
151:9, 151:11, 151:16,
151:18, 151:21,
151:24, 152:5, 152:9,
152:14, 160:8, 161:1
MS [78] - 17:5, 17:8,
18:1, 18:3, 21:21,
22:5, 22:17, 23:25,
27:1, 28:9, 29:24,
30:19, 34:3, 34:5,
39:4, 41:1, 41:7,
42:11, 42:12, 42:21,
43:13, 43:21, 43:23,
44:4, 45:13, 47:6,
47:8, 51:11, 51:13,
63:7, 69:14, 69:17,
72:9, 73:22, 74:5,
74:10, 74:16, 74:19,
75:1, 75:7, 75:12,
75:14, 75:23, 76:1,
76:5, 76:9, 76:13,
76:16, 77:3, 77:19,
77:24, 81:25, 84:13,
84:20, 86:8, 105:17,
106:7, 106:9, 106:11,
106:13, 107:12,
107:15, 108:23,
108:25, 109:1, 109:3,
109:4, 109:5, 123:20,
124:4, 126:24, 127:5,
127:10, 129:5, 131:12,
133:6, 133:17, 135:8
multicultural [1] - 137:9
Multicultural [1] - 107:6
multiculturalism [1] 107:21
multifaceted [1] 136:24
multiple [1] - 134:4
multiservice [1] 134:11
municipality [2] 160:12, 160:13
murder [3] - 121:24,
121:25, 122:2
murdered [1] - 171:21
murders [1] - 18:11
must [8] - 8:2, 31:14,
55:12, 59:3, 131:20,
133:1, 135:3, 162:21
Mychael [4] - 161:3,
161:4, 161:5, 173:8
myth [4] - 30:5, 117:23,
118:1
N
NAGS [1] - 47:12
name [15] - 1:6, 3:20,
17:4, 17:9, 30:19,
51:13, 63:8, 72:9,
105:19, 127:5, 136:11,
151:11, 161:3, 168:25,
176:11
named [1] - 69:24
narration [1] - 142:16
narrow [2] - 36:23, 73:1
narrowly [2] - 56:22,
131:4
Nations [2] - 64:18,
89:25
nations [1] - 53:13
Native [1] - 151:13
native [3] - 153:4,
155:21, 157:21
nature [4] - 14:16,
28:18, 50:19, 132:19
navigate [1] - 66:24
navigator [2] - 139:15,
139:18
NDP [1] - 114:5
near [1] - 95:15
necessarily [3] - 59:1,
91:25, 134:5
necessary [7] - 35:10,
39:9, 58:16, 74:24,
75:4, 111:10, 170:9
necessity [2] - 40:3,
40:16
xvi
need [43] - 5:25, 9:24,
10:5, 10:8, 11:12,
14:13, 16:23, 23:14,
27:17, 32:16, 36:12,
36:14, 38:22, 43:8,
43:10, 44:18, 45:2,
52:22, 65:25, 70:6,
77:12, 77:19, 88:19,
94:13, 111:11, 114:8,
131:9, 144:16, 145:5,
145:19, 145:25, 146:1,
148:6, 156:4, 159:16,
159:20, 167:21,
169:24, 171:5, 173:18,
173:19
needed [6] - 36:7, 47:15,
87:1, 132:3, 157:14,
170:6
needing [2] - 112:11,
112:15
needs [28] - 12:21,
13:17, 16:19, 17:20,
20:17, 26:22, 27:17,
43:11, 45:14, 51:8,
54:21, 98:22, 105:25,
106:1, 110:19, 111:18,
115:22, 130:20, 133:4,
133:21, 147:19, 162:4,
162:5, 162:6, 163:10,
169:22, 172:6
negative [2] - 61:13,
78:11
negotiations [1] - 46:18
net [1] - 27:21
Netherlands [1] - 79:12
network [1] - 64:17
networking [1] - 15:19
neutral [2] - 121:4,
121:5
never [14] - 50:24, 70:2,
74:19, 75:17, 76:7,
86:18, 98:1, 116:19,
116:20, 121:21,
121:24, 122:1, 174:4
NEW [2] - 104:4, 136:8
new [19] - 13:23, 73:14,
74:19, 77:3, 77:13,
80:10, 80:11, 106:19,
122:15, 135:15,
135:16, 137:12,
139:15, 140:8, 141:16,
143:20, 149:10,
149:21, 165:4
New [10] - 30:21, 43:14,
109:17, 162:14,
162:16, 166:25,
167:14, 168:20,
169:17, 170:19
newcomers [1] - 125:11
newer [1] - 13:21
Newton [3] - 47:12,
47:16, 106:21
next [8] - 14:6, 14:21,
23:13, 27:1, 93:20,
100:16, 127:3, 167:18
nice [7] - 158:18, 159:4,
159:22, 159:24, 160:1,
167:14
niche [1] - 8:9
night [3] - 162:19,
164:22, 167:21
nine [2] - 10:24, 79:11
no-come [1] - 79:5
no-drinking [1] - 102:13
no-income [1] - 79:2
nobody [5] - 116:12,
117:16, 121:4, 174:8,
174:18
non [14] - 17:14, 17:24,
18:1, 19:9, 19:19,
20:4, 20:8, 24:20,
25:14, 28:20, 53:3,
105:22, 120:24, 142:2
non-existent [1] - 24:20
non-profit [4] - 17:14,
105:22, 120:24, 142:2
non-status [9] - 17:24,
18:1, 19:9, 19:19,
20:4, 20:8, 25:14,
28:20, 53:3
none [1] - 64:21
nonetheless [1] - 98:9
normal [1] - 46:8
normally [2] - 37:12,
37:14
north [2] - 86:6, 156:1
North [11] - 88:7, 89:4,
89:11, 89:15, 95:12,
96:11, 97:15, 101:25,
103:18, 122:9, 127:1
not-for-profit [1] - 63:10
notably [2] - 16:7, 16:8
note [8] - 5:1, 6:1, 16:5,
66:16, 119:3, 130:13,
170:6, 170:9
notes [4] - 5:5, 10:15,
17:5, 112:5
nothing [8] - 95:15,
113:11, 122:9, 122:10,
122:12, 122:14,
153:11, 171:15
notice [2] - 8:20, 158:16
noticed [2] - 16:11,
134:14
novel [1] - 80:10
November [2] - 59:19,
106:14
nowhere [1] - 50:4
nuisance [1] - 102:7
number [27] - 3:22, 7:5,
8:23, 10:16, 15:5,
18:11, 18:17, 18:22,
35:9, 40:13, 62:15,
68:14, 81:19, 84:25,
88:5, 93:23, 97:12,
108:23, 117:14,
121:11, 124:2, 126:4,
138:10, 144:9, 144:12,
144:13
numbers [5] - 34:5,
81:21, 97:4, 108:16,
126:12
numerous [1] - 54:3
O
o'clock [2] - 122:13,
167:17
object [1] - 160:14
obligations [5] - 31:9,
31:23, 55:2, 59:9,
62:13
obliged [1] - 55:7
obscene [1] - 115:11
obtain [2] - 31:18, 74:24
obviate [1] - 40:3
obvious [2] - 49:24,
175:3
obviously [11] - 10:8,
16:21, 43:17, 53:7,
64:21, 80:20, 108:21,
112:14, 131:19,
132:18, 133:22
occasional [1] - 89:11
occasionally [2] - 90:9,
98:15
occur [1] - 98:21
occurred [3] - 10:5,
20:25, 97:18
occurring [2] - 19:23,
115:18
ocean [1] - 125:2
October [2] - 1:1, 176:11
odd [1] - 170:20
offence [1] - 167:5
offences [2] - 96:14,
102:7
offender [1] - 121:21
Offenders [1] - 90:19
offer [5] - 4:14, 10:4,
11:4, 101:4, 106:22
offered [2] - 6:2, 11:3
offering [1] - 99:4
office [26] - 21:16,
22:10, 89:6, 89:15,
89:17, 89:18, 89:19,
89:20, 89:24, 95:13,
108:16, 109:19,
109:20, 131:25,
134:22, 134:23,
134:24, 134:25, 135:3,
149:4, 163:9, 163:22,
163:23, 164:14,
164:24, 165:10
officer [2] - 26:18,
165:21
officers [4] - 37:14,
39:25, 103:8, 153:13
offices [9] - 7:8, 9:2,
86:15, 91:20, 95:18,
95:19, 121:9, 157:23
Official [2] - 176:2,
176:17
officials [2] - 22:14,
51:14
often [16] - 33:11, 35:18,
48:21, 79:1, 85:5,
99:9, 100:11, 104:17,
110:19, 110:22,
111:19, 111:23,
115:19, 127:16, 129:9,
131:9
old [3] - 14:16, 162:11,
172:13
Old [1] - 74:1
Olson [1] - 171:25
once [14] - 11:9, 16:2,
26:2, 29:16, 82:24,
120:8, 134:23, 141:10,
142:6, 144:1, 148:25,
149:2, 153:12, 155:16
once-a-year [1] - 11:9
one [110] - 4:15, 6:3,
7:17, 7:24, 9:9, 12:8,
13:6, 15:2, 16:11,
16:21, 20:21, 21:13,
22:5, 23:20, 24:5,
26:10, 27:24, 28:5,
28:19, 28:23, 29:3,
30:4, 35:12, 38:8,
41:7, 42:7, 43:14,
44:21, 47:11, 48:16,
49:25, 50:3, 50:13,
52:19, 53:1, 53:12,
53:23, 59:22, 60:2,
60:7, 60:13, 62:16,
64:22, 71:25, 72:1,
72:12, 73:16, 73:17,
78:3, 80:3, 83:12,
83:17, 83:18, 85:23,
86:20, 95:11, 97:19,
100:6, 104:13, 106:1,
106:25, 120:17,
121:19, 121:23, 122:6,
122:8, 123:20, 124:2,
124:20, 125:7, 126:2,
128:8, 128:12, 128:14,
128:19, 131:8, 132:1,
133:19, 133:22, 135:6,
143:2, 146:12, 146:13,
146:14, 146:15,
147:11, 149:13, 150:1,
150:14, 151:24, 152:9,
153:7, 154:21, 154:23,
157:19, 157:25,
159:18, 160:9, 160:18,
163:18, 166:1, 166:14,
169:20, 170:24,
170:25, 171:13,
172:25
one-time [1] - 16:21
one-way [1] - 49:25
onerous [1] - 31:24
ones [6] - 25:11, 107:1,
115:20, 118:2, 157:24,
162:10
ongoing [7] - 14:7,
16:23, 20:8, 20:13,
20:20, 26:7, 30:2
Ontario [2] - 49:20,
119:17
onus [1] - 33:8
open [6] - 14:13, 74:5,
75:2, 77:14, 89:20,
165:11
opened [1] - 106:15
opener [2] - 165:10,
165:17
opening [2] - 37:11,
115:19
openings [1] - 174:18
operate [3] - 4:20, 95:13
operated [1] - 98:16
operating [1] - 105:23
operation [2] - 9:6,
123:12
operations [1] - 148:20
opinion [2] - 38:16,
38:21
opportunities [4] 129:25, 130:7, 130:8,
139:2
opportunity [16] - 3:18,
5:3, 26:13, 87:14,
90:23, 91:1, 93:15,
94:16, 94:23, 105:14,
105:18, 135:21,
139:17, 142:4, 154:14
opposed [1] - 94:8
opposite [1] - 138:2
options [2] - 44:17,
49:22
oral [2] - 2:5, 2:8
orally [1] - 2:14
order [9] - 69:12, 69:14,
70:21, 102:8, 115:15,
146:1, 146:10, 171:24
orders [1] - 100:7
ordinarily [1] - 75:17
organization [18] - 4:7,
4:8, 4:24, 7:3, 7:11,
7:25, 8:14, 11:7,
15:15, 17:6, 17:14,
18:18, 58:7, 58:10,
139:24, 142:2, 145:15,
145:17
organization's [1] -
xvii
70:19
organizational [3] 15:19, 62:3, 62:5
organizations [18] 5:21, 13:20, 13:24,
14:9, 15:8, 15:24,
18:19, 54:25, 56:1,
58:18, 63:15, 63:19,
64:6, 66:7, 129:18,
135:13, 137:1, 139:3
organized [3] - 7:12,
129:22, 130:1
organizers [1] - 127:12
oriented [1] - 161:20
originally [2] - 113:12,
128:12
originated [1] - 50:1
Orthopsychiatric [1] 161:17
otherwise [5] - 62:24,
96:17, 100:9, 105:13,
146:17
ought [1] - 6:21
ourselves [3] - 7:12,
13:8, 53:18
outline [3] - 54:17,
109:5, 152:3
outlining [2] - 5:13, 8:24
output [1] - 61:10
outreach [10] - 9:3,
47:11, 47:22, 48:2,
50:11, 106:11, 107:8,
107:12, 107:15,
131:25
outside [4] - 25:13,
95:10, 128:1, 137:4
outstanding [4] - 49:18,
98:3, 98:15, 98:18
overall [7] - 8:3, 33:23,
39:1, 39:4, 61:8,
61:25, 62:10
overcollecting [1] 65:13
overhead [4] - 88:2,
93:3, 95:14, 95:17
overheads [1] - 121:9
overlap [1] - 14:3
overlapping [1] - 106:25
overpayment [2] 65:10, 65:12
overpayments [1] 68:16
oversight [2] - 65:19,
65:20
overtime [1] - 37:17
overwhelmed [1] 111:19
overwhelming [3] 23:16, 55:20, 65:25
owe [2] - 23:3, 31:15
Owen's [1] - 57:20
own [19] - 5:17, 14:12,
20:16, 22:10, 26:20,
37:6, 38:5, 50:16,
59:13, 66:10, 66:25,
102:7, 129:19, 140:4,
140:9, 142:3, 143:7,
146:16, 172:19
oxygen [1] - 116:25
P
P.M [5] - 87:6, 87:7,
136:3, 136:4, 175:12
Pabla [4] - 136:6,
136:11, 136:19
PABLA [19] - 136:11,
136:22, 138:20,
138:22, 142:24,
147:15, 147:17,
147:23, 148:2, 148:5,
148:11, 148:13,
149:25, 150:9, 150:11,
150:13, 150:15,
150:17, 150:19
package [2] - 40:22,
79:21
PADU [2] - 159:20,
159:25
paid [7] - 40:1, 65:24,
93:12, 122:9, 122:10,
174:6
pain [1] - 133:15
pains [1] - 32:10
Pam [1] - 156:2
pamphlet [1] - 52:10
pamphlets [1] - 86:14
panel [11] - 3:17, 8:23,
17:23, 21:12, 63:7,
73:19, 87:21, 114:24,
127:12, 129:22, 130:1
paper [4] - 5:6, 5:11,
62:25, 80:22
paperwork [3] - 147:1,
174:20
paralegals [3] - 10:24,
68:3, 68:8
parental [1] - 46:3
parenthetically [1] 9:19
parker [1] - 17:1
Parker [5] - 3:16, 3:20,
7:5, 23:5, 75:15
PARKER [5] - 3:17,
7:10, 7:22, 16:19, 17:2
parliament [1] - 1:9
part [15] - 4:11, 4:18,
18:16, 22:9, 29:5,
68:21, 82:11, 99:2,
114:16, 152:23,
155:24, 155:25,
156:20, 160:16
part-time [2] - 4:11, 99:2
participants [2] - 31:16,
32:4
particular [7] - 5:16,
5:18, 22:19, 50:13,
54:20, 97:17, 148:21
particularly [9] - 2:6,
15:3, 29:8, 71:17,
88:3, 89:1, 107:10,
108:14, 125:23
parties [4] - 41:23, 60:2,
60:5, 60:12
partly [2] - 95:16, 102:2
partner [3] - 16:10,
47:22, 173:21
partner's [1] - 173:22
partnered [1] - 106:21
partners [1] - 53:8
partnership [4] - 9:5,
107:2, 107:5, 139:13
partnerships [3] - 112:2,
137:1, 139:10
parts [2] - 79:22, 148:21
party [1] - 60:7
pass [1] - 114:25
passed [1] - 31:8
passion [2] - 114:14,
123:15
passionate [5] - 114:12,
114:15, 114:17,
121:25, 123:23
past [6] - 8:11, 8:24,
10:6, 57:4, 86:25,
98:21
patchwork [1] - 76:11
patient [2] - 163:8, 167:6
patients [5] - 161:21,
161:25, 162:7, 168:13,
169:14
PAUL [13] - 150:25,
151:5, 151:9, 151:11,
151:16, 151:18,
151:21, 151:24, 152:5,
152:9, 152:14, 160:8,
161:1
Paul [6] - 136:8, 150:24,
151:11, 160:25,
171:19, 171:21
pause [7] - 5:11, 20:11,
94:5, 94:10, 95:22,
150:7, 163:25
pay [8] - 6:5, 36:19,
37:17, 50:9, 58:23,
99:3, 172:17, 174:8
Payday [2] - 81:2, 82:14
paying [4] - 37:17,
113:5, 125:13, 126:8
payments [1] - 59:4
peanuts [2] - 116:1,
119:2
pedophile [1] - 173:25
Pemberton [5] - 89:5,
90:1, 90:7, 103:21,
104:1
pending [1] - 69:18
Pension [1] - 74:1
pension [1] - 168:15
people [179] - 7:8, 10:7,
11:22, 12:18, 22:11,
29:2, 32:7, 33:2,
33:11, 38:13, 39:13,
39:22, 45:10, 47:19,
47:24, 48:8, 50:24,
51:2, 61:6, 64:6, 65:2,
65:5, 65:13, 65:23,
66:21, 67:24, 71:13,
71:14, 71:17, 71:18,
72:23, 73:19, 74:6,
74:8, 74:11, 74:13,
74:23, 75:2, 75:8,
75:15, 75:16, 75:21,
76:6, 76:10, 76:19,
76:21, 76:22, 77:1,
77:8, 77:9, 77:15,
78:16, 78:18, 78:19,
78:21, 78:23, 78:25,
79:1, 79:2, 80:4,
81:19, 82:2, 82:5,
82:6, 82:10, 82:11,
82:13, 84:3, 84:8,
84:11, 84:17, 85:1,
87:1, 89:7, 90:1, 92:3,
92:5, 92:12, 92:16,
92:21, 93:24, 93:25,
95:1, 95:19, 96:10,
96:22, 97:2, 97:19,
98:13, 100:2, 100:3,
100:6, 101:7, 101:22,
102:3, 102:15, 103:6,
103:10, 104:11,
104:16, 104:17, 105:3,
105:12, 107:14, 114:7,
114:10, 115:21, 116:2,
116:14, 116:18,
118:25, 119:5, 119:21,
121:14, 122:25, 123:1,
123:2, 123:3, 123:15,
123:19, 124:19, 129:9,
131:7, 132:13, 133:15,
133:25, 134:12,
135:16, 135:19, 138:4,
139:23, 140:5, 141:2,
141:3, 141:9, 141:10,
141:12, 141:14,
141:24, 142:10, 143:5,
143:24, 144:3, 144:6,
144:8, 144:9, 144:11,
144:14, 145:9, 145:24,
145:25, 146:5, 146:8,
146:11, 146:22,
148:25, 149:5, 149:8,
149:21, 153:10, 154:4,
154:11, 155:10, 158:4,
158:8, 158:24, 162:20,
162:25, 166:11,
169:20, 170:12,
171:19, 172:5, 173:7,
174:16
people's [5] - 48:10,
86:16, 114:17, 131:2,
131:23
Peoples [1] - 158:25
per [7] - 3:1, 10:25,
45:19, 89:21, 112:10,
139:17, 150:12
perceived [1] - 121:5
percent [27] - 34:6, 34:9,
40:14, 60:4, 60:5,
60:6, 60:11, 65:6,
81:6, 81:9, 81:10,
81:14, 81:15, 82:22,
82:25, 84:20, 85:15,
97:8, 97:18, 108:18,
108:19, 108:20, 115:6,
115:8, 118:4, 154:16
percentage [3] - 81:20,
115:3, 117:9
perception [2] - 48:10,
120:20
perfect [1] - 92:1
perform [2] - 88:21,
118:10
performance [2] 166:14, 166:22
performing [1] - 88:24
perhaps [10] - 14:4,
15:13, 39:17, 49:9,
98:24, 99:1, 102:19,
114:8, 118:2, 132:8
period [2] - 34:20,
155:18
periods [2] - 92:7
permanent [2] - 19:10,
19:11
permission [1] - 171:12
perpetuate [1] - 18:24
perpetuates [1] - 24:11
Perryman [1] - 60:19
persecution [1] - 25:22
person [31] - 14:19,
22:6, 25:7, 29:16,
32:22, 32:23, 32:25,
40:18, 50:20, 55:12,
67:2, 67:6, 67:10,
76:24, 91:6, 100:24,
101:20, 105:10,
116:13, 121:20,
140:18, 141:18,
145:14, 145:16,
146:21, 146:23, 147:2,
159:24, 162:4, 166:6,
174:6
person's [1] - 145:20
personal [4] - 61:11,
111:6, 111:7, 130:13
xviii
personalized [1] 166:21
personally [4] - 71:10,
74:16, 87:16, 158:5
personnel [1] - 20:3
persons [3] - 79:17,
128:4, 174:16
perspective [5] - 10:4,
11:4, 18:7, 48:17, 86:3
Peter [1] - 57:23
phone [7] - 81:2, 83:24,
89:18, 95:14, 117:6,
164:11, 168:23
phoned [2] - 167:21,
168:25
phosphorus [2] - 165:7,
165:12
photocopied [1] - 169:7
physical [2] - 104:21,
130:22
physically [1] - 117:8
physicians [1] - 107:17
PIAC [5] - 49:5, 55:19,
64:16, 65:5, 71:1
pick [3] - 19:25, 20:4,
79:23
picked [3] - 25:15,
49:20, 162:8
Pickton [1] - 57:13
PICS [6] - 136:16,
136:22, 137:8, 139:6,
139:14, 142:25
picture [2] - 51:5,
104:25
piece [2] - 27:24, 115:16
piecemeal [1] - 23:18
pinch [1] - 157:4
place [8] - 16:20, 27:13,
50:7, 132:3, 133:23,
135:17, 153:18, 176:6
places [3] - 49:3, 66:9
plain [4] - 85:6, 85:7,
85:12, 85:14
plan [3] - 18:15, 18:17,
30:8
planning [1] - 108:10
Plant [1] - 5:8
plastic [2] - 162:23,
172:20
plates [1] - 125:2
play [3] - 3:12, 167:10,
167:11
PLAYED [1] - 3:14
plays [3] - 56:16, 79:7,
167:8
plea [2] - 40:20, 41:12
plead [3] - 44:8, 49:22,
137:21
pleads [1] - 101:6
pleas [2] - 98:14, 102:24
pleasure [3] - 1:8, 64:5,
87:10
plenty [1] - 59:13
plus [1] - 81:9
point [35] - 5:24, 7:22,
8:1, 9:12, 9:22, 12:8,
13:15, 15:2, 24:16,
26:11, 27:1, 33:17,
40:8, 41:10, 44:23,
49:2, 50:15, 54:9,
54:10, 56:9, 59:22,
60:13, 62:16, 71:6,
72:25, 75:22, 85:21,
100:17, 113:20,
114:11, 114:19, 130:1,
148:23, 152:11, 175:7
pointed [2] - 32:22,
54:18
points [4] - 5:18, 28:22,
30:4, 33:25
Poland [1] - 79:12
police [10] - 37:13,
39:25, 153:10, 153:13,
163:1, 165:21, 166:11,
166:21, 169:11
policies [1] - 65:14
Policy [2] - 59:18, 80:23
policy [1] - 65:21
political [1] - 119:4
pool [1] - 110:3
poor [2] - 50:6, 79:17
poorest [1] - 72:14
poorly [1] - 80:5
pop [1] - 165:16
population [8] - 81:12,
81:22, 82:23, 82:25,
84:5, 84:21, 111:4,
154:6
portion [1] - 103:19
position [9] - 70:20,
107:7, 108:2, 111:23,
122:23, 127:14, 129:5,
130:23, 139:15
positions [2] - 3:23,
150:1
positive [2] - 136:17,
136:22
possible [2] - 160:2,
160:21
possibly [3] - 44:11,
95:5, 99:12
post [1] - 57:13
post-Pickton [1] - 57:13
postal [1] - 72:14
posted [1] - 115:12
poverty [37] - 4:17, 5:9,
5:14, 9:25, 10:10,
10:12, 11:25, 12:4,
13:18, 48:9, 56:12,
57:6, 59:5, 61:7,
63:19, 64:17, 67:21,
68:6, 68:11, 77:25,
78:4, 78:6, 90:21,
91:22, 104:20, 106:22,
107:1, 127:15, 127:22,
127:24, 129:1, 129:24,
130:24, 131:10,
131:17, 147:22
power [1] - 55:25
practice [14] - 4:11,
4:14, 30:20, 36:17,
88:23, 113:5, 118:4,
125:13, 130:5, 135:20,
161:19, 162:16,
165:23, 169:16
practices [1] - 126:9
practicing [2] - 116:20,
174:9
practitioner [1] - 161:18
practitioners [1] 125:23
prebooking [1] - 11:16
predominantly [2] 126:8, 126:13
prefer [1] - 137:21
prefiling [1] - 69:6
preliminary [1] - 5:2
preparation [2] - 69:5,
122:3
prepare [3] - 25:22,
45:16, 112:19
prepared [7] - 2:15,
17:6, 23:22, 85:2,
115:1, 122:14, 139:5
preparing [3] - 2:16,
23:23, 69:8
presence [1] - 174:5
present [3] - 17:22,
87:15, 101:11
presentation [8] - 2:11,
3:1, 42:12, 44:25,
135:24, 145:11,
145:24, 152:2
presentations [3] - 2:24,
175:3, 175:5
presented [5] - 5:2, 5:6,
54:16, 64:6, 65:18
presenting [1] - 145:9
presiding [1] - 32:10
press [1] - 113:8
presumption [1] - 33:7
pretrial [4] - 36:4, 50:10,
50:14, 122:12
pretty [6] - 22:7, 75:10,
125:10, 154:25, 155:3,
160:20
prevalent [1] - 27:6
prevent [2] - 133:8,
133:23
prevented [2] - 48:23,
132:8
preventing [1] - 48:18
prevention [1] - 143:15
prevents [2] - 43:24,
44:2
previous [1] - 4:15
previously [3] - 97:19,
112:3, 134:1
priced [1] - 117:25
primarily [9] - 73:2,
73:23, 88:9, 89:25,
94:9, 99:1, 106:20,
127:4, 162:18
primary [2] - 89:15,
163:12
printed [2] - 10:3, 79:21
priorities [4] - 1:19, 3:7,
9:22, 132:25
priority [2] - 12:10,
14:21
priors [1] - 173:9
prisons [1] - 119:5
private [3] - 118:7,
132:18, 141:21
privately [3] - 92:18,
93:1, 93:6
privilege [1] - 15:10
pro [22] - 4:8, 5:25, 6:7,
6:11, 6:17, 6:20, 7:3,
7:7, 7:12, 7:16, 7:23,
8:2, 8:8, 8:19, 9:11,
16:14, 22:9, 69:25,
71:9, 88:21, 88:23,
171:2
Pro [7] - 4:9, 4:19, 5:1,
9:16, 15:5, 88:21,
107:2
probation [5] - 100:7,
102:4, 102:8, 103:8,
167:1
probations [1] - 103:6
problem [13] - 11:20,
12:25, 33:15, 35:1,
81:22, 82:18, 82:20,
86:9, 86:14, 102:12,
134:2, 163:17, 171:24
problematic [1] - 109:22
problems [17] - 11:22,
11:23, 27:10, 32:12,
43:4, 47:2, 61:1,
72:17, 74:6, 74:9,
85:2, 109:6, 109:7,
133:12, 144:12, 156:8,
161:21
procedural [1] - 2:20
procedures [2] - 27:12,
139:1
proceeding [2] - 38:15,
121:22
PROCEEDINGS [6] 1:4, 87:6, 87:7, 136:3,
136:4, 175:12
proceedings [4] - 63:23,
66:14, 176:5, 176:9
process [28] - 2:4,
18:16, 21:3, 23:15,
24:15, 26:8, 40:24,
66:11, 66:15, 70:23,
110:11, 110:25, 111:9,
111:14, 111:18,
112:20, 112:21, 128:6,
141:22, 143:8, 144:22,
145:21, 148:8, 149:6,
155:5, 155:16, 156:5,
156:17
processes [3] - 47:15,
66:20, 146:13
processing [1] - 42:17
produced [1] - 62:22
product [1] - 61:10
profession [6] - 6:9,
6:23, 43:23, 57:17,
94:11, 135:16
professional [1] - 31:9
proficiency [1] - 80:9
profit [5] - 17:14, 63:10,
105:22, 120:24, 142:2
program [23] - 4:1,
10:25, 105:24, 106:1,
106:2, 106:4, 106:13,
106:20, 111:8, 139:7,
139:17, 140:18, 142:7,
143:11, 150:3, 150:4,
150:9, 150:20, 159:12,
165:7, 174:13, 174:17,
174:22
Program [3] - 4:12,
17:13, 56:5
programs [13] - 8:21,
13:18, 16:7, 17:15,
48:2, 62:7, 107:13,
136:25, 137:2, 137:5,
137:6, 137:7, 144:4
Progressive [1] - 136:12
prohibited [4] - 100:8,
100:19, 100:23, 101:1
prohibition [1] - 101:17
Project [2] - 155:23,
156:14
project [5] - 11:9, 141:6,
155:22, 156:11,
157:15
projects [1] - 107:16
promise [1] - 169:19
promised [1] - 151:19
promote [2] - 141:7,
142:7
pronounced [1] - 17:3
proof [1] - 86:11
proper [4] - 6:18,
107:24, 107:25,
137:22
properly [8] - 7:23, 17:4,
43:10, 91:18, 95:6,
95:16, 125:9, 138:3
proportion [5] - 13:9,
103:1, 103:5, 104:1,
126:6
xix
propose [3] - 138:8,
139:4, 141:6
prosecuting [1] - 119:1
prosecution [1] - 37:8
prosecutions [1] - 31:6
prosecutor [5] - 39:21,
43:15, 46:9, 101:12,
102:17
prosecutors [5] - 31:11,
46:2, 46:6, 124:5,
166:24
protect [3] - 32:14,
38:22, 173:6
protected [2] - 32:13,
41:24
protecting [1] - 32:14
Protection [1] - 152:13
protection [10] - 38:19,
64:14, 65:16, 88:17,
88:19, 90:16, 99:12,
110:16, 127:4, 152:14
proud [1] - 7:1
proudly [1] - 16:9
prove [6] - 33:8, 33:10,
55:1, 55:17, 55:22,
86:1
proves [1] - 85:18
provide [46] - 5:17, 6:24,
7:3, 7:16, 7:19, 8:10,
14:1, 17:17, 23:6,
23:7, 37:11, 37:23,
46:21, 48:3, 52:1,
55:7, 56:21, 57:6,
58:8, 58:16, 58:19,
62:4, 62:13, 69:12,
71:1, 71:4, 74:8,
74:23, 75:3, 75:22,
98:3, 105:4, 107:11,
118:12, 127:15,
128:18, 133:20,
134:15, 135:17,
135:18, 138:22,
147:10, 153:4, 153:6,
159:22
provided [26] - 4:24, 5:4,
8:5, 10:23, 12:6, 25:4,
27:18, 38:18, 39:12,
42:25, 49:13, 55:13,
64:19, 68:3, 92:12,
94:18, 106:18, 130:19,
130:20, 131:4, 131:13,
134:18, 135:6, 140:10,
145:16, 171:2
provider [2] - 128:17,
128:18
providers [8] - 7:13,
8:19, 9:11, 9:16,
13:19, 14:10, 14:24,
56:11
provides [4] - 1:16,
17:14, 48:25, 98:17
providing [14] - 6:14,
10:12, 13:20, 14:24,
22:20, 87:13, 89:6,
94:12, 109:22, 133:6,
133:13, 135:15,
145:23, 160:15
Province [3] - 69:24,
158:2, 176:3
province [25] - 4:21,
5:15, 7:4, 7:16, 8:5,
11:9, 15:6, 18:18,
20:13, 31:7, 34:10,
42:14, 43:18, 50:1,
50:4, 52:13, 64:4,
65:1, 78:13, 78:22,
86:9, 157:23, 159:11,
159:14, 160:12
provinces [1] - 10:13
Provincial [6] - 30:21,
31:1, 33:24, 34:7,
34:8, 109:17
provincial [9] - 37:12,
46:1, 66:13, 68:19,
115:4, 115:7, 115:24,
161:23, 170:1
provision [6] - 6:4, 6:7,
13:16, 14:20, 25:5,
25:14
provoke [2] - 69:11,
69:14
psychiatric [1] - 162:7
Psychological [1] 161:16
psychologist [1] 161:13
psychologists [1] 172:6
Public [8] - 1:7, 1:13,
2:21, 51:22, 63:9,
127:8, 129:6, 170:6
public [37] - 1:18, 2:18,
6:14, 6:15, 6:20, 10:3,
11:10, 11:18, 12:10,
12:24, 13:9, 17:19,
40:5, 40:25, 52:1,
52:6, 54:25, 57:8,
58:19, 62:8, 100:1,
105:19, 106:3, 106:7,
107:8, 118:21, 118:22,
132:17, 156:21, 157:1,
157:10, 157:12,
157:13, 157:20, 160:3,
160:16, 175:9
publication [4] - 9:4,
156:22, 158:6, 158:21
publish [1] - 59:14
published [2] - 59:18,
62:18
PubNet [1] - 13:25
pulled [1] - 39:25
punishing [1] - 50:6
punishment [1] - 101:16
Punjabi [2] - 141:9,
141:18
Punjabi-speaking [2] 141:9, 141:18
purpose [3] - 2:10, 30:9,
90:25
pursuing [2] - 22:2,
25:19
pushed [1] - 29:13
pushing [1] - 159:2
put [20] - 2:15, 18:7,
18:24, 40:21, 45:22,
66:18, 69:7, 69:21,
70:5, 72:3, 72:5, 85:6,
85:7, 107:16, 116:6,
129:11, 143:2, 147:2,
158:1, 174:20
puts [6] - 11:9, 28:11,
28:14, 41:11, 116:8,
116:10
putting [3] - 23:23,
123:21, 146:21
Q
QC [3] - 122:7, 124:24,
125:3
QCs [1] - 125:5
qualification [1] - 87:22
qualified [1] - 127:17
qualify [2] - 96:17,
128:23
quality [8] - 2:2, 63:21,
115:16, 117:4, 118:13,
121:10, 123:8, 123:10
quantify [3] - 46:20,
46:25, 123:24
quantifying [1] - 39:19
quasi [3] - 31:15, 87:23,
90:22
quasi-criminal [2] 87:23, 90:22
quasi-judicial [1] 31:15
Queen [2] - 69:23,
119:23
questions [5] - 1:14,
80:5, 111:19, 160:3
quick [2] - 29:11, 161:10
quickly [10] - 26:16,
28:15, 42:17, 43:22,
44:24, 104:12, 125:12,
130:16, 135:14,
170:12
quiet [2] - 119:20, 120:5
quite [29] - 6:10, 6:23,
8:4, 8:10, 9:7, 10:17,
11:10, 11:16, 11:18,
12:15, 12:23, 21:13,
22:18, 22:20, 28:17,
44:25, 59:16, 64:24,
71:2, 71:3, 73:14,
87:19, 91:16, 92:24,
103:18, 129:4, 130:9,
154:15
quote [4] - 42:4, 82:2,
91:11, 124:24
R
racialized [2] - 67:12,
71:17
radios [2] - 142:6, 142:7
raise [1] - 107:8
raised [1] - 70:14
raising [1] - 71:5
random [1] - 171:16
rang [1] - 170:23
range [5] - 9:17, 63:15,
65:6, 83:1, 133:7
rate [1] - 65:6
ratepayers [1] - 63:22
rates [1] - 63:21
rather [6] - 4:5, 18:5,
24:22, 56:25, 90:6,
145:1
ratio [1] - 115:25
RCR [2] - 176:2, 176:16
re [1] - 112:2
re-establishing [1] 112:2
reach [4] - 26:17, 35:9,
162:10, 168:22
reaching [2] - 41:4,
138:5
reaction [3] - 115:9,
115:10, 115:13
read [14] - 17:8, 59:21,
60:19, 79:15, 79:22,
80:4, 82:2, 82:3, 82:8,
83:23, 84:21, 149:13,
175:9
readability [1] - 85:13
reader [1] - 85:20
reading [1] - 159:3
ready [1] - 119:15
real [4] - 13:3, 19:17,
76:11, 168:25
realities [1] - 8:16
reality [4] - 8:13, 13:12,
56:19, 57:4
realize [4] - 84:24,
127:19, 134:25, 135:2
realized [2] - 37:9, 37:13
realizing [1] - 167:12
really [41] - 6:12, 8:12,
26:13, 26:15, 35:13,
42:21, 43:18, 54:14,
58:10, 66:5, 67:8,
67:22, 71:9, 76:2,
85:1, 85:25, 86:16,
86:21, 90:4, 91:14,
102:5, 122:1, 130:15,
134:25, 135:7, 139:4,
140:22, 142:4, 142:14,
142:20, 144:8, 149:8,
157:14, 158:9, 159:4,
159:16, 160:9, 170:10
realm [3] - 20:15, 24:25,
27:2
realms [1] - 24:25
rearrange [1] - 78:8
rearranging [1] - 124:25
reason [5] - 18:7, 18:8,
89:1, 123:9, 124:1
reasonable [4] - 33:9,
42:4, 42:10, 126:4
reasonably [1] - 6:2
reasons [1] - 153:7
receive [5] - 2:14, 28:17,
109:18, 131:19,
132:17
received [4] - 2:1, 15:14,
87:2, 89:18
receiving [3] - 91:6,
128:3, 128:6
recent [8] - 3:25, 12:20,
13:22, 37:21, 67:1,
108:14, 121:3, 130:7
recently [12] - 4:18,
15:5, 22:6, 23:5,
34:11, 62:18, 64:8,
66:2, 68:22, 70:20,
77:5, 173:17
RECESSED [2] - 87:6,
136:3
recipients [1] - 48:12
recognition [3] - 12:16,
131:5, 138:13
recognize [3] - 86:4,
156:4, 158:11
recognized [1] - 153:3
recommend [1] - 15:22
recommendation [1] 9:12
recommendations [5] 11:24, 15:16, 16:12,
16:22, 61:25
recommended [1] - 58:1
recommending [2] 58:4, 117:20
reconciliation [2] - 6:22,
7:22
reconsideration [2] 74:12, 75:8
RECONVENED [2] 87:7, 136:4
record [6] - 49:23,
167:4, 172:25, 173:23,
173:25
records [1] - 7:8
recurring [1] - 21:7
red [1] - 115:5
reduce [3] - 36:6, 36:23,
xx
95:17
reduced [7] - 36:20,
71:3, 95:14, 96:20,
97:6, 157:9, 158:17
reduces [1] - 48:11
reducing [2] - 36:10,
60:25
reduction [3] - 97:8,
97:18, 97:21
reductions [4] - 9:3,
61:11, 158:10, 158:15
refer [2] - 54:21, 58:6
reference [2] - 17:9,
60:14
referral [3] - 51:4,
107:24, 108:1
referrals [11] - 15:12,
97:1, 97:5, 97:7, 97:8,
97:9, 97:14, 112:4,
148:14, 148:22
referred [2] - 19:19,
170:22
referring [3] - 18:5,
75:15, 89:9
reflect [1] - 58:2
reflected [1] - 53:21
reflection [2] - 28:16,
29:22
reflects [1] - 40:9
reform [3] - 51:25,
63:16, 64:1
refuge [2] - 78:17, 78:23
refugee [4] - 17:24,
18:1, 25:19, 68:9
refused [2] - 129:9,
166:24
regard [8] - 20:8, 20:17,
89:5, 89:14, 90:22,
97:22, 98:5, 103:4
regarding [3] - 140:15,
142:21, 144:7
regardless [2] - 6:13,
50:8
regards [1] - 36:4
Regional [1] - 108:15
regional [2] - 9:2,
151:12
registered [1] - 105:22
regret [1] - 8:6
regular [4] - 29:21, 43:5,
88:22, 105:6
regularize [1] - 20:22
regulation [1] - 63:18
reintegrating [1] - 50:12
reiterate [1] - 71:22
rejected [1] - 145:20
related [6] - 15:14, 68:6,
73:3, 73:24, 82:20,
84:23
Related [1] - 62:19
relating [3] - 137:14,
144:25, 145:5
relation [1] - 32:17
relationship [15] - 5:25,
19:4, 19:15, 21:17,
22:1, 23:1, 24:4,
24:13, 24:22, 26:6,
26:9, 30:15, 96:5,
97:24, 152:19
relationships [4] 27:24, 61:22, 112:2,
137:1
relatively [2] - 90:10,
135:12
released [2] - 25:17,
81:18
relevant [4] - 5:12,
59:22, 79:23
relied [1] - 69:25
relieved [1] - 41:15
reluctant [1] - 141:24
rely [1] - 71:15
relying [1] - 86:9
remain [3] - 27:23,
81:20, 89:10
remaining [1] - 108:22
remains [2] - 19:14,
57:14
remark [2] - 8:12, 11:5
remarkable [1] - 168:20
remarks [1] - 72:24
remember [1] - 171:19
remind [1] - 13:8
reminiscent [1] - 171:19
remission [1] - 62:7
removal [3] - 20:5, 20:7,
27:12
removed [1] - 24:23
remunerated [1] - 124:9
remuneration [3] - 95:7,
115:17, 123:21
rent [1] - 165:23
repeat [4] - 104:17,
166:13, 166:22, 167:4
repetition [1] - 133:24
replaced [2] - 46:4, 46:7
report [16] - 2:16, 10:14,
36:15, 51:21, 57:23,
62:21, 103:8, 158:6,
158:9, 163:11, 163:19,
164:3, 164:4, 171:21,
173:8, 175:8
reported [2] - 19:21,
166:21
Reporter [2] - 176:3,
176:17
Reporter's [1] - 176:1
reporting [5] - 22:13,
56:25, 159:20, 159:25,
167:1
reports [6] - 19:12,
62:15, 62:22, 172:6,
172:7, 172:18
represent [19] - 26:2,
28:4, 48:22, 63:14,
63:18, 69:21, 75:7,
88:8, 88:17, 92:23,
99:6, 103:11, 112:15,
127:16, 128:24,
144:16, 145:3, 148:8,
148:19
representation [38] 9:24, 9:25, 10:13,
11:25, 12:2, 12:5,
13:7, 21:22, 25:6,
27:23, 42:25, 49:1,
50:18, 52:9, 55:11,
58:9, 62:10, 64:19,
65:2, 66:7, 68:4, 68:7,
70:25, 74:10, 98:19,
109:11, 129:10,
129:11, 133:7, 133:11,
133:13, 137:22,
138:25, 139:9, 145:1,
145:2, 145:5, 148:7
representation-type [1]
- 10:13
representations [1] 2:6
representative [1] 74:15
representatives [3] 2:6, 9:13, 9:16
represented [6] - 43:12,
60:6, 60:12, 65:4,
93:15, 138:3
representing [4] - 50:15,
50:25, 88:14, 96:3
reputation [2] - 136:17,
136:23
requesting [1] - 122:6
requests [3] - 47:21,
47:23, 74:12
require [2] - 93:9,
115:15
required [5] - 69:4,
80:17, 92:12, 98:20,
102:25
requirement [1] - 25:9
requirements [1] - 56:25
requires [2] - 48:19,
93:7
research [4] - 17:18,
50:17, 72:22, 85:18
researched [2] - 149:17,
149:19
resemble [1] - 86:25
reserve [1] - 103:18
residency [1] - 19:11
resident [1] - 19:10
residential [10] - 47:25,
48:15, 48:16, 48:18,
48:20, 63:22, 64:13,
73:25, 153:15, 153:18
residing [1] - 14:6
residue [1] - 14:11
resolution [3] - 13:2,
35:12, 41:22
resolve [3] - 40:18,
55:22, 163:4
resolved [4] - 40:15,
109:14, 146:6, 146:9
resolving [3] - 45:11,
51:16, 61:2
resort [1] - 86:2
Resource [2] - 106:16,
108:12
resource [6] - 135:18,
139:14, 140:2, 142:17,
143:3, 154:19
Resources [1] - 127:2
resources [15] - 14:14,
17:19, 33:21, 34:1,
36:24, 51:4, 52:11,
70:24, 138:6, 140:5,
142:1, 142:12, 142:13,
143:2, 154:14
resourcing [1] - 46:11
respect [20] - 1:19, 1:22,
3:9, 17:23, 20:10,
22:5, 89:22, 90:8,
92:2, 96:1, 113:18,
114:3, 119:23, 120:8,
123:8, 123:13, 125:16,
135:23, 142:21
respected [3] - 125:3,
125:6, 125:15
respectful [4] - 119:21,
125:8, 136:17, 136:23
respond [2] - 8:15,
133:3
respondents [1] - 79:24
responding [1] - 46:25
response [3] - 1:25,
47:15, 109:18
responsibility [6] - 6:24,
14:23, 35:20, 154:10,
154:18, 159:21
responsible [3] - 31:5,
34:8, 55:9
rest [3] - 8:23, 41:18,
63:5
restraints [1] - 46:5
restricted [2] - 76:17,
76:18
result [5] - 18:13, 18:22,
76:24, 110:21, 132:11
resulted [1] - 132:6
results [3] - 57:3,
110:12, 138:1
resurrected [1] - 12:5
retain [1] - 93:1
retained [3] - 88:8,
92:19, 93:7
retainers [1] - 7:7
retire [2] - 121:14,
170:13
retires [1] - 46:4
returned [1] - 169:8
returning [2] - 109:9,
117:6
reunification [1] - 35:19
revealed [1] - 19:18
revenue [2] - 121:4,
121:5
revert [1] - 65:21
review [7] - 2:13, 15:23,
25:7, 25:8, 48:19,
60:15, 175:5
Review [2] - 80:23,
87:20
Richard [10] - 166:2,
166:3, 166:8, 166:12,
166:14, 166:16,
166:22, 166:24,
166:25
Richard's [1] - 166:5
Richmond [1] - 141:4
Rick [1] - 53:17
rid [2] - 68:2, 152:16
Ridge [1] - 169:18
ridiculous [1] - 124:18
ridiculously [1] - 54:5
Rights [1] - 59:16
rights [28] - 12:11,
13:10, 32:13, 32:14,
32:15, 38:19, 39:18,
41:24, 52:21, 52:23,
53:5, 53:9, 53:11,
54:10, 58:2, 64:12,
64:14, 67:19, 82:15,
87:24, 91:4, 107:11,
108:8, 131:15, 131:21,
133:7
rights-based [1] - 58:2
Rights-Based [1] 59:16
ring [3] - 168:17, 169:18,
170:16
risk [7] - 18:24, 19:8,
24:22, 28:12, 28:14,
88:18, 173:16
risking [1] - 123:12
RMR [2] - 176:2, 176:16
road [3] - 37:16, 100:15,
125:12
roared [1] - 169:6
robbery [1] - 32:19
robots [1] - 123:17
robust [1] - 55:9
Rock [1] - 76:22
rocks [2] - 124:15
role [10] - 6:18, 6:20,
14:18, 21:19, 31:13,
31:15, 31:17, 31:22,
36:2, 90:4
xxi
room [5] - 84:2, 113:23,
115:12, 139:14, 143:3
rooms [1] - 143:3
root [1] - 116:6
roughly [1] - 80:17
round [1] - 25:17
Royal [5] - 164:19,
168:16, 168:20, 169:5,
169:6
ruined [1] - 167:25
rule [1] - 15:22
rules [3] - 15:9, 15:23,
67:23
Rules [1] - 31:10
rumble [1] - 166:10
run [9] - 43:6, 44:15,
51:5, 61:24, 105:12,
120:24, 130:4, 135:20,
164:19
running [2] - 11:8, 104:2
runs [1] - 15:6
rural [3] - 155:25, 156:9,
156:15
rushed [1] - 110:24
Russ [1] - 1:9
RUSS [3] - 16:11, 22:10,
39:1
rust [1] - 125:2
S
saddest [1] - 83:12
sadly [1] - 5:11
safe [4] - 23:11, 108:4,
163:19, 163:21
safely [1] - 108:10
safety [6] - 18:15, 23:11,
57:10, 108:4, 108:10,
160:17
sale [1] - 165:8
Salvation [1] - 49:13
sands [1] - 8:11
Sarah [2] - 63:6, 63:8
sat [1] - 11:20
satellite [1] - 106:15
satisfied [1] - 16:1
save [4] - 58:20, 60:14,
133:14
Save [1] - 165:8
Save-On [1] - 165:8
saves [1] - 36:24
savings [2] - 47:4,
168:14
saw [7] - 108:18, 108:19,
108:20, 115:8, 165:7,
168:3, 168:11
scenario [1] - 23:2
scheduling [1] - 30:25
schizophrenic [2] 166:4, 166:5
scholar [1] - 72:22
school [7] - 77:18,
80:18, 117:17, 127:11,
135:10, 153:15, 167:4
schools [1] - 153:19
screening [1] - 107:24
seal [1] - 176:11
search [1] - 49:10
second [11] - 7:22, 9:22,
17:25, 29:5, 53:14,
60:14, 115:10, 150:14,
154:8, 156:20, 163:8
secondary [3] - 66:23,
80:18, 89:16
secondly [2] - 107:24,
153:16
secretariat [2] - 15:16,
16:23
secretariat-type [1] 16:23
secretaries [1] - 170:18
secretary [1] - 30:23
security [3] - 39:22,
55:12, 130:23
see [33] - 14:3, 21:19,
25:1, 27:17, 38:11,
41:3, 67:18, 72:17,
74:19, 76:24, 78:16,
82:10, 84:3, 99:17,
99:21, 104:16, 105:12,
108:6, 116:20, 117:19,
118:2, 123:23, 124:5,
129:24, 130:24,
135:20, 144:11, 147:8,
151:1, 152:22, 156:14,
164:15, 164:20
seeing [7] - 39:10, 79:1,
96:5, 110:3, 112:11,
112:16, 122:15
seek [4] - 1:20, 62:24,
95:19, 98:6
seeking [7] - 54:25,
56:1, 63:21, 68:24,
89:8, 96:16, 100:10
seem [2] - 67:25, 113:21
seemingly [1] - 67:13
Sekora [1] - 156:2
self [14] - 73:2, 73:4,
73:5, 82:6, 85:24,
111:6, 112:15, 123:8,
123:13, 140:11,
140:24, 143:9, 148:7,
159:15
self-advocacy [1] 140:24
self-disclose [1] - 111:6
self-help [8] - 73:2,
73:4, 73:5, 82:6,
85:24, 140:11, 143:9,
159:15
self-represent [1] 112:15
self-representation [1] -
148:7
self-respect [2] - 123:8,
123:13
Sellick [2] - 47:9, 47:11
SELLICK [1] - 47:10
send [4] - 46:8, 101:13,
146:22, 163:16
sending [1] - 164:8
senior [3] - 95:3, 137:4,
140:25
seniors [1] - 63:18
seniors' [1] - 134:13
sense [12] - 12:25,
13:11, 13:16, 14:4,
23:10, 39:16, 45:9,
76:13, 77:11, 92:14,
93:14, 102:14
sensitive [2] - 111:20,
166:4
sent [4] - 37:16, 83:14,
149:16, 152:3
sentence [2] - 40:21,
122:11
separate [1] - 145:18
separately [2] - 24:25,
127:24
separating [1] - 128:10
separation [5] - 53:16,
53:24, 53:25, 54:5,
110:14
September [1] - 11:15
serious [10] - 34:23,
45:4, 49:21, 50:19,
54:20, 68:25, 70:14,
90:20, 110:20, 119:25
serve [9] - 47:20, 47:24,
58:18, 76:19, 76:20,
94:4, 95:6, 95:16,
138:23
served [4] - 50:22,
96:23, 99:14
Service [3] - 141:10,
143:25, 149:2
service [34] - 3:22, 4:2,
4:8, 4:24, 7:20, 8:25,
9:8, 11:1, 12:1, 14:12,
14:20, 15:16, 16:6,
16:24, 59:12, 63:21,
73:13, 75:22, 76:16,
94:19, 96:2, 96:10,
97:23, 98:16, 107:3,
107:4, 120:8, 120:11,
120:12, 134:15,
134:16, 135:7, 137:4,
147:10
services [105] - 1:23,
3:10, 5:10, 5:15, 6:4,
6:8, 6:11, 6:14, 6:24,
7:3, 7:16, 8:2, 8:4,
8:10, 8:21, 9:4, 9:18,
9:23, 9:24, 10:2,
10:13, 10:22, 11:5,
11:12, 11:13, 11:17,
11:25, 12:2, 12:5,
12:6, 12:12, 12:13,
13:4, 13:7, 13:16,
13:20, 13:21, 14:1,
14:2, 14:25, 15:13,
16:1, 17:14, 17:23,
21:20, 25:18, 26:1,
30:12, 38:23, 47:22,
47:23, 51:6, 52:2,
56:12, 57:6, 58:12,
58:15, 58:16, 58:24,
59:3, 59:6, 60:23,
61:5, 61:6, 61:16,
62:4, 64:19, 68:7,
68:10, 70:25, 71:9,
71:19, 81:24, 94:2,
94:13, 98:5, 106:18,
107:15, 109:15,
110:23, 120:7, 120:19,
125:18, 127:15,
129:12, 132:20,
133:20, 134:18, 135:2,
135:5, 137:3, 137:6,
138:23, 140:10,
142:11, 144:10, 153:3,
153:6, 158:7, 158:23
Services [27] - 3:24,
4:16, 8:15, 9:1, 10:9,
12:3, 51:22, 55:4,
56:17, 60:18, 88:15,
89:3, 91:19, 93:22,
98:2, 98:16, 99:18,
100:5, 105:20, 105:21,
107:6, 112:1, 115:1,
120:22, 120:23,
121:23, 136:12
servicing [2] - 94:25,
133:25
serving [2] - 94:3,
140:11
set [14] - 25:24, 35:14,
41:9, 65:10, 65:12,
72:2, 93:3, 93:5, 95:7,
97:17, 120:23, 131:15,
145:18, 176:6
sets [1] - 101:2
setting [2] - 156:15
settle [1] - 60:8
settled [2] - 49:19, 49:21
seven [8] - 4:23, 7:1,
25:7, 34:6, 78:24,
82:22, 82:23, 82:25
seven-day [1] - 25:7
several [3] - 77:1, 168:9,
170:21
severe [2] - 28:19, 32:8
sexual [1] - 91:9
shake [1] - 48:23
shall [2] - 4:5, 8:20
share [5] - 15:11, 15:24,
52:18, 56:10, 111:3
shared [1] - 59:25
sheriffs [1] - 39:22
shifted [2] - 40:11
shifting [1] - 8:11
ship [1] - 40:10
shock [1] - 13:12
shoes [1] - 4:5
shop [1] - 123:12
shoplifting [1] - 49:20
shopping [1] - 15:8
Shore [7] - 88:7, 89:11,
95:12, 96:11, 97:15,
103:18, 127:1
Shore/Sunshine [1] 89:4
short [4] - 8:7, 8:20,
58:3, 160:21
shorthand [1] - 176:6
shortsighted [1] - 61:21
show [4] - 65:13, 81:9,
117:9, 156:18
showed [4] - 60:22,
81:19, 113:18, 156:3
showing [2] - 75:16,
78:19
shown [2] - 86:13, 98:18
shows [4] - 55:5, 101:5,
115:2, 117:13
shrinks [1] - 170:12
sic [2] - 109:1, 169:3
sic] [1] - 45:20
sickened [1] - 121:16
sickness [1] - 45:20
side [13] - 23:15, 24:15,
31:22, 37:2, 41:14,
43:11, 46:17, 68:11,
72:11, 73:10, 92:18,
105:1, 139:6
sides [3] - 35:8, 36:6,
42:25
Sidhu [2] - 105:16,
105:19
SIDHU [9] - 105:17,
106:7, 106:9, 106:11,
106:13, 107:15,
108:25, 109:3, 109:5
sign [2] - 74:7, 83:6
signed [1] - 54:6
significant [6] - 5:9,
5:14, 12:24, 13:9,
96:11, 97:21
significantly [5] - 36:25,
48:8, 88:3, 96:20,
106:13
signing [2] - 82:12,
82:13
signs [1] - 107:25
similar [2] - 5:7
similarly [3] - 60:6,
99:15, 102:4
Simon [1] - 174:12
xxii
simple [6] - 67:13,
79:25, 102:23, 139:1,
145:14
simpler [1] - 106:17
simplified [1] - 121:3
simply [23] - 5:17, 6:10,
6:23, 7:19, 8:4, 8:13,
9:7, 10:6, 10:17,
11:10, 12:15, 12:23,
55:20, 68:19, 70:21,
94:18, 95:1, 111:22,
115:17, 118:4, 137:17,
137:21, 165:22
sink [5] - 167:13,
167:15, 167:16, 168:6
sit [2] - 40:17, 173:15
sits [1] - 172:22
sitting [6] - 2:5, 45:15,
50:14, 50:20, 115:21,
116:18
situation [25] - 19:13,
21:16, 22:15, 24:11,
28:20, 28:22, 29:12,
29:13, 29:16, 29:21,
29:23, 30:7, 49:7,
94:2, 95:23, 99:11,
101:9, 101:10, 102:18,
103:2, 108:5, 114:11,
132:8, 137:18, 168:5
situation's [1] - 81:17
situations [8] - 22:11,
48:14, 75:25, 78:2,
124:19, 130:21,
130:22
six [8] - 70:11, 82:22,
82:23, 82:24, 97:11,
97:13, 170:23, 174:11
sketch [1] - 161:10
skill [3] - 80:2, 80:17,
176:9
skills [5] - 58:16, 79:18,
80:7, 80:11, 98:25
slate [1] - 2:25
sleeping [2] - 78:19,
78:21
slight [1] - 167:13
slipped [1] - 174:3
slower [1] - 136:20
slowly [1] - 41:20
slum [1] - 48:24
small [7] - 4:11, 15:7,
55:8, 63:10, 104:24,
110:5, 156:23
smart [1] - 118:2
Smith [1] - 172:4
Smith's [1] - 169:22
so-and-so [1] - 44:7
social [14] - 58:15,
58:24, 61:22, 63:13,
63:16, 63:25, 64:10,
67:18, 71:11, 72:22,
74:25, 129:24, 135:5,
135:13
Social [1] - 128:5
societies [1] - 139:11
society [16] - 7:15,
38:20, 80:16, 81:13,
82:4, 84:22, 92:11,
101:21, 104:11,
120:24, 136:15,
136:16, 138:13, 142:5,
171:7, 173:6
Society [25] - 3:24, 4:4,
4:16, 8:15, 9:15,
10:10, 13:25, 15:17,
15:23, 31:10, 55:5,
56:17, 62:6, 89:3,
93:22, 99:19, 105:21,
112:1, 118:9, 127:2,
136:13, 136:16,
136:22, 138:9
society's [3] - 96:23,
99:13, 102:20
socioeconomically [1] 116:16
sole [1] - 161:18
solely [1] - 71:15
solicitor/client [2] 96:4, 97:24
solutions [8] - 3:9,
51:17, 86:21, 158:13,
158:19, 173:5
solve [2] - 74:7, 104:8
solved [1] - 133:10
someone [8] - 15:14,
21:8, 24:6, 46:3,
60:15, 84:13, 85:9,
168:24
sometimes [29] - 8:19,
14:6, 29:6, 50:11,
75:5, 78:2, 88:10,
91:8, 91:11, 91:12,
92:21, 94:13, 96:6,
98:7, 99:12, 100:15,
101:2, 101:5, 103:8,
103:17, 112:12, 130:6,
137:16, 137:23, 139:9,
141:2, 141:3, 141:24
somewhat [4] - 6:3,
15:6, 15:11, 95:18
somewhere [5] - 7:1,
9:10, 83:21, 83:22,
83:24
sons [3] - 166:7, 166:17,
166:25
soon [1] - 125:10
sophistication [1] - 98:8
sorry [16] - 3:5, 14:2,
17:25, 33:25, 42:1,
61:25, 89:2, 106:5,
110:22, 111:1, 138:18,
161:8, 164:2, 168:18,
169:8, 171:8
sort [8] - 19:8, 24:25,
49:4, 77:3, 102:7,
126:9, 127:19, 135:21
sorts [1] - 131:22
sought [1] - 93:24
sounding [1] - 113:21
sounds [1] - 50:5
South [6] - 105:20,
105:21, 106:15,
107:10, 108:12,
137:10
spark [1] - 57:8
SPEAKER [2] - 104:4,
136:8
speaker [1] - 117:5
speakers [2] - 64:23,
94:6
speaking [8] - 5:5, 5:23,
10:14, 43:25, 82:21,
141:9, 141:18, 160:23
speaks [1] - 67:11
special [5] - 162:4,
162:5, 162:6, 169:21
special-needs [1] 162:4
specialists [1] - 134:12
specialized [2] - 145:10,
148:20
Specialized [1] - 17:12
specially [1] - 143:11
specific [1] - 73:1
specifically [5] - 94:8,
152:6, 152:9, 153:20,
156:25
spectrum [2] - 13:6,
13:8
spend [3] - 64:2, 118:25,
174:19
spending [6] - 61:10,
61:12, 61:13, 112:18,
116:5, 117:6
spent [5] - 3:22, 67:5,
89:22, 119:2, 119:5
spheres [1] - 27:14
spiral [2] - 133:12,
164:21
spirited [1] - 123:15
split [3] - 98:24, 99:2,
99:4
split-up [1] - 99:4
splits [1] - 99:15
spoken [1] - 23:5
sponsor [2] - 24:6, 24:8
sponsored [4] - 19:10,
21:8, 22:12, 24:2
sponsorship [6] - 21:11,
21:18, 21:24, 22:7,
66:1, 66:3
spouse [4] - 19:5, 19:14,
21:9, 99:17
spouses [2] - 90:16,
118:16
spring [1] - 127:7
Squamish [1] - 76:22
square [1] - 11:11
Square [1] - 11:14
stabbing [1] - 32:19
stabilization [1] - 47:11
stable [2] - 61:1, 132:17
staff [16] - 4:17, 10:10,
10:11, 10:23, 57:5,
63:8, 63:12, 70:21,
72:15, 91:21, 109:20,
111:23, 112:8, 151:5,
155:24, 158:5
staffing [1] - 10:19
stage [1] - 133:11
stages [3] - 75:9, 119:15
stake [3] - 55:12, 57:11,
130:23
stand [2] - 122:17,
122:18
standard [1] - 85:13
standards [1] - 64:13
standing [3] - 117:2,
119:12, 154:2
Stanford [1] - 80:22
start [7] - 2:23, 96:4,
118:15, 155:4, 157:1,
162:10, 173:7
started [13] - 30:4,
47:13, 64:16, 78:19,
87:8, 90:10, 108:23,
116:19, 136:5, 139:16,
150:15, 162:21,
166:10
starting [1] - 117:17
starts [1] - 153:10
starved [1] - 78:6
state [10] - 33:19, 56:16,
61:5, 62:13, 68:14,
68:17, 68:25, 69:19,
71:8, 71:14
state-funded [3] - 68:14,
68:25, 71:14
statement [5] - 25:23,
68:23, 68:24, 69:3,
69:8
statements [1] - 68:20
States [1] - 79:13
states [1] - 118:9
stating [1] - 110:24
statistically [2] - 96:9,
96:24
statistics [2] - 103:3,
117:9
Statistics [2] - 81:8,
85:10
stats [2] - 108:17,
154:16
status [18] - 17:24, 18:1,
19:6, 19:8, 19:9,
19:19, 19:20, 20:4,
20:8, 20:12, 20:22,
21:5, 25:14, 26:17,
28:20, 53:3, 106:6
stay [10] - 23:17, 24:12,
24:21, 26:9, 26:14,
30:15, 37:17, 50:4,
63:4, 99:1
stay-at-home [1] - 99:1
stayed [2] - 21:16, 22:25
Staying [1] - 62:20
stays [1] - 25:8
steering [1] - 23:21
stemmed [1] - 132:14
stemming [2] - 128:25,
129:2
step [8] - 21:25, 23:13,
24:4, 26:6, 104:13,
142:19, 142:20,
160:17
steps [1] - 108:8
Steven [1] - 57:20
stick [1] - 152:7
stiffed [1] - 174:7
still [10] - 13:20, 14:3,
87:24, 88:4, 95:15,
101:15, 117:1, 153:25,
154:1, 170:20
stimulating [1] - 61:3
stitches [1] - 165:18
stop [3] - 10:20, 166:9,
169:1
stopped [3] - 122:6,
167:15, 168:24
stopping [1] - 107:6
store [1] - 162:23
stories [1] - 52:18
story [7] - 33:13, 53:14,
116:7, 116:9, 116:10,
116:12, 168:3
straight [1] - 155:13
strategic [3] - 18:15,
18:17, 30:8
strategies [1] - 9:17
strategy [1] - 16:14
stream [1] - 59:2
Street [1] - 83:18
street [2] - 40:1, 132:4
strengthen [1] - 137:3
stretched [2] - 14:5,
14:14
strict [1] - 56:23
strictly [3] - 3:2, 125:13,
155:13
striking [1] - 28:23
strip [2] - 123:13, 165:4
strive [1] - 38:22
strong [6] - 66:6, 73:7,
92:6, 136:25, 137:8,
170:20
strong-arm [1] - 170:20
stronger [1] - 173:19
xxiii
structured [1] - 1:17
struggling [1] - 66:21
stuck [2] - 24:10, 103:10
student [2] - 63:12,
117:20
students [4] - 129:22,
129:23, 130:10, 149:1
studied [3] - 61:17,
79:11, 86:18
studies [2] - 7:14, 81:8
study [3] - 60:17, 60:22,
81:18
style [1] - 73:12
subject [1] - 58:22
subjected [1] - 45:25
submission [8] - 5:2,
31:24, 54:22, 72:6,
92:13, 93:17, 99:23,
125:8
submissions [9] - 1:25,
2:8, 18:3, 22:9, 22:20,
38:25, 75:8, 149:7,
160:20
submit [7] - 62:25,
91:16, 92:10, 94:22,
97:25, 98:9, 98:11
submitted [2] - 156:7,
158:22
submitting [1] - 59:19
subscribed [1] - 176:10
subsidized [1] - 128:17
subsidy [1] - 128:18
substantive [1] - 69:10
substitute [2] - 7:23,
132:23
success [3] - 42:23,
65:6, 66:3
successful [5] - 22:6,
42:16, 42:17, 66:6,
80:18
sucked [1] - 118:7
Sudeyko [3] - 87:12,
114:12, 121:8
SUDEYKO [9] - 87:13,
93:13, 93:19, 97:5,
103:15, 103:17,
103:24, 104:3, 104:7
suffer [3] - 99:10,
101:14
suffering [1] - 48:15
suffers [1] - 103:1
sufficient [2] - 23:19,
27:8
sufficiently [5] - 9:21,
81:12, 82:2, 82:3,
84:21
suggest [2] - 6:22,
125:20
suggested [3] - 54:18,
57:22, 60:16
suggesting [1] - 125:11
suggestions [2] - 1:21,
3:8
suitable [1] - 80:13
summarily [1] - 8:17
summary [3] - 10:1,
11:8, 23:21
summer [1] - 69:2
Sunshine [2] - 103:23,
103:24
superintendent [1] 100:18
supervised [1] - 148:9
supervising [4] - 17:10,
147:23, 147:25, 148:2
supervision [2] - 148:7,
148:14
supplement [1] - 5:22
support [24] - 17:17,
24:13, 29:16, 43:17,
45:6, 56:5, 63:12,
71:9, 72:4, 90:15,
98:23, 99:3, 99:8,
110:1, 111:11, 128:15,
153:23, 156:3, 156:18,
158:1, 158:6, 159:3,
159:17, 171:4
supported [3] - 15:17,
157:21, 158:6
supporters [1] - 56:8
supporting [1] - 155:17
supportive [1] - 68:9
supports [2] - 15:19,
135:5
suppose [3] - 23:20,
26:23, 89:1
supposed [9] - 38:2,
38:8, 50:23, 103:9,
114:15, 118:23, 121:3,
122:13
supposedly [1] - 120:24
supreme [2] - 59:24,
91:5
Supreme [6] - 30:21,
31:17, 37:21, 53:15,
59:25, 68:13
surface [1] - 114:2
surfaces [1] - 11:7
surprise [1] - 165:14
surprisingly [4] - 163:2,
165:24, 169:12,
171:12
Surrey [35] - 1:2, 1:11,
1:12, 4:13, 4:15, 4:18,
4:21, 30:21, 30:25,
33:24, 34:5, 34:6,
34:8, 34:14, 34:21,
41:8, 42:13, 42:15,
43:20, 45:18, 50:10,
50:14, 87:11, 108:15,
109:17, 109:20, 110:4,
141:4, 141:18, 141:22,
152:6, 154:4, 155:9,
170:22
Surrey/Delta [1] - 4:22
survey [1] - 12:22
Survey [2] - 79:10
Susan [4] - 47:9, 47:10,
72:8, 72:9
SUSAN [1] - 47:10
sustaining [1] - 48:17
swamp [1] - 14:18
swamped [1] - 11:16
Sweden [1] - 79:13
sworn [1] - 34:13
Sylvia [3] - 168:24,
168:25, 169:6
sympathetic [1] - 100:2
syndrome [1] - 84:15
system [69] - 1:20, 3:8,
12:4, 12:14, 12:17,
20:7, 20:16, 31:4,
31:14, 31:25, 32:1,
32:3, 33:16, 33:18,
33:20, 34:25, 35:7,
35:13, 35:19, 38:17,
38:24, 39:2, 40:10,
40:19, 40:25, 41:8,
41:19, 42:6, 43:7,
43:9, 45:2, 45:5, 45:7,
45:10, 46:23, 50:23,
52:14, 54:13, 57:11,
57:15, 58:2, 66:18,
72:18, 78:18, 92:1,
98:6, 99:6, 99:7,
101:21, 103:12,
104:12, 104:14,
104:24, 125:17,
129:20, 130:9, 130:12,
132:9, 132:23, 133:1,
133:14, 139:1, 145:7,
145:13, 147:3, 149:13,
149:15
System [2] - 59:17,
113:14
systemic [2] - 63:16,
129:6
systems [4] - 45:6,
66:20, 66:24
T
table [1] - 47:14
tactful [1] - 162:19
tape [1] - 162:24
tariff [6] - 9:3, 12:4,
62:2, 88:3, 115:19,
121:3
task [2] - 80:11, 85:15
tasks [1] - 80:1
taught [1] - 174:2
tax [1] - 58:25
taxpayers [1] - 51:7
teachers [1] - 107:19
teaching [1] - 174:12
tears [1] - 23:17
technical [2] - 15:2, 36:9
teens [2] - 166:3, 166:7
teeth [1] - 90:24
telephone [3] - 4:1,
10:21, 155:11
telephones [1] - 156:10
television [2] - 165:6,
166:20
tempted [1] - 73:5
ten [3] - 8:12, 64:16,
105:25
tenancy [9] - 48:1,
48:15, 48:16, 48:19,
48:20, 64:13, 73:25,
132:5, 132:11
tenants [5] - 48:15,
48:21, 63:19, 79:4,
79:5
tense [1] - 56:25
tenth [1] - 2:5
tents [1] - 11:15
Terasen [1] - 63:24
term [5] - 16:14, 57:19,
58:3, 104:11, 137:24
terms [21] - 3:7, 5:13,
12:1, 15:12, 25:1,
25:17, 39:20, 54:13,
56:23, 74:23, 86:5,
90:12, 102:10, 105:5,
107:20, 116:17,
116:24, 120:16, 129:5,
130:18, 135:15
terrible [3] - 170:25,
171:1, 173:18
terribly [1] - 167:2
terrified [1] - 172:21
territorial [1] - 14:12
test [3] - 55:17, 56:1,
80:4
tested [1] - 85:25
testifying [3] - 170:7,
170:8, 172:11
Texas [4] - 60:17, 60:18,
60:22, 174:1
text [2] - 80:6, 85:17
texts [1] - 85:12
thankfully [1] - 165:21
theirs [1] - 74:15
theme [5] - 19:3, 20:6,
20:24, 21:7, 27:7
themes [4] - 18:23,
18:25, 24:17
themselves [7] - 28:11,
48:11, 48:22, 50:25,
53:6, 94:20, 103:11
thereafter [1] - 176:7
thereby [1] - 68:20
therefore [4] - 61:12,
71:19, 93:3, 112:15
they've [11] - 8:16,
21:16, 27:11, 41:24,
86:17, 93:23, 95:14,
95:17, 98:10, 98:24,
109:12
thickest [1] - 162:9
thinking [3] - 76:6,
101:11, 114:16
thinks [2] - 118:14,
163:13
third [3] - 8:1, 12:8,
165:3
thirds [1] - 146:8
thon [1] - 11:10
Thorne [1] - 1:12
thoroughly [1] - 51:9
thoughts [1] - 52:8
thousand [2] - 47:21,
77:1
thousands [5] - 21:18,
64:20, 65:11, 116:3
threat [1] - 173:13
threatening [1] - 165:20
threats [3] - 163:2,
166:13, 172:20
three [24] - 35:5, 38:9,
43:13, 46:9, 73:15,
77:6, 77:10, 88:13,
89:21, 99:20, 99:21,
112:13, 114:25,
125:19, 143:16,
145:22, 146:12, 163:9,
163:12, 167:9, 169:23,
171:22
threefold [1] - 6:22
throughout [9] - 26:7,
28:6, 78:12, 90:6,
155:25, 157:23,
159:10, 159:14,
160:12
thrown [2] - 115:18,
116:1
thumbnail [1] - 161:10
ticket [2] - 50:1, 50:3
tie [1] - 81:23
tied [2] - 82:19, 139:12
TIMEKEEPER [1] 104:2
timeline [1] - 112:17
timely [2] - 109:9,
109:19
tinfoil [1] - 172:21
Titanic [1] - 125:1
titled [1] - 59:15
today [19] - 1:9, 2:11,
2:25, 5:12, 5:13, 5:16,
10:4, 12:12, 17:22,
18:8, 47:15, 51:15,
87:15, 94:25, 151:11,
152:5, 161:7, 161:9,
175:6
xxiv
today's [1] - 30:9
together [14] - 16:18,
27:14, 35:23, 36:23,
40:17, 40:22, 41:22,
70:5, 101:10, 129:11,
157:15, 158:14,
166:10, 174:21
Tony [3] - 171:23,
171:24, 172:1
took [7] - 34:22, 69:4,
91:2, 91:4, 156:6,
160:17, 175:2
tool [5] - 59:6, 59:7,
59:8, 143:24, 159:15
tools [1] - 17:19
top [3] - 45:22, 124:13,
167:15
topic [1] - 113:23
torn [1] - 165:4
total [4] - 61:9, 108:18,
108:25, 115:9
totally [5] - 125:15,
138:2, 142:9, 142:10
touch [4] - 24:24, 27:2,
134:17, 147:6
touched [2] - 26:10,
118:12
towards [1] - 160:15
toy [1] - 162:23
toys [1] - 171:3
TRAC [2] - 148:16,
148:19
tradition [1] - 44:2
traditional [2] - 7:18,
15:9
tragedies [1] - 171:23
tragically [1] - 96:22
train [2] - 159:7, 159:10
trained [1] - 143:11
training [16] - 17:17,
32:7, 77:9, 77:21,
138:16, 138:20,
138:21, 138:24,
143:12, 143:15, 147:5,
147:6, 150:19, 152:23,
154:25, 159:5
trainings [4] - 140:21,
140:23, 143:17,
143:18
transactions [1] - 81:2
transcribed [1] - 176:7
transcript [1] - 176:8
transfer [3] - 59:3, 59:6,
59:8
transition [1] - 20:4
translate [1] - 52:25
translated [1] - 116:2
translates [1] - 83:2
translation [2] - 110:1,
111:11
trauma [1] - 107:7
traumatic [1] - 84:18
travel [1] - 88:19
travesty [1] - 99:24
treated [4] - 83:5, 83:9,
113:25, 120:2
treaties [1] - 54:17
treatment [1] - 35:21
treaty [1] - 59:9
tremendous [1] - 71:6
tremendously [1] 86:10
trend [1] - 19:24
trial [31] - 30:25, 34:14,
34:15, 34:19, 34:22,
35:10, 35:15, 36:6,
36:11, 36:20, 36:24,
37:6, 38:3, 38:20,
39:8, 40:16, 40:23,
42:3, 45:19, 57:13,
60:4, 60:9, 69:21,
98:15, 101:3, 121:24,
121:25, 122:2, 122:10,
170:5, 173:15
trial's [1] - 42:9
trials [3] - 41:9, 46:10,
60:10
tribunal [1] - 74:14
tribunals [3] - 74:13,
74:18, 75:5
tried [10] - 55:19, 55:20,
66:6, 66:8, 70:14,
127:17, 139:10, 160:4,
160:20
trouble [4] - 40:5, 67:4,
136:21, 175:2
troubling [2] - 15:7, 29:6
true [3] - 55:3, 56:18,
176:7
truly [1] - 172:25
trust [1] - 121:18
try [16] - 1:17, 3:2,
20:21, 24:5, 24:9,
26:13, 66:10, 74:7,
76:5, 76:8, 99:5, 99:6,
99:7, 127:23, 152:7,
159:8
trying [20] - 8:9, 16:16,
24:3, 44:10, 66:19,
67:2, 67:5, 70:23,
74:21, 102:14, 118:15,
128:21, 128:23, 129:2,
129:10, 132:2, 134:3,
134:7, 152:16, 168:12
Tsawwassen [1] - 47:17
tuna [4] - 165:7, 165:8,
165:12, 165:13
turn [3] - 65:23, 95:24,
141:12
turned [2] - 120:6, 168:6
turning [3] - 120:21,
123:11, 123:12
two [30] - 23:3, 27:14,
28:22, 41:21, 43:13,
49:3, 49:22, 52:18,
54:11, 63:13, 73:16,
82:21, 85:8, 89:24,
93:12, 106:2, 106:5,
112:13, 139:25,
140:21, 145:22, 146:8,
149:25, 152:24, 163:9,
166:2, 166:7, 166:17,
169:23
twofold [1] - 4:15
type [7] - 10:13, 11:11,
16:23, 73:22, 73:23,
73:24, 133:24
types [4] - 41:13,
108:11, 127:18, 128:7
typical [1] - 161:10
typically [2] - 100:23,
102:1
U
UBC [5] - 72:20, 79:9,
126:25, 127:7, 149:1
ultimately [3] - 28:2,
99:8, 100:18
unable [2] - 66:24, 79:19
unaware [1] - 13:10
unbelievable [1] - 113:9
under [10] - 30:5, 31:9,
68:24, 76:10, 77:25,
90:19, 110:17, 128:12,
130:18, 164:22
underlining [1] - 10:4
undermining [1] - 57:16
undertake [2] - 17:18,
55:16
unequal [1] - 93:17
unfair [2] - 38:12, 54:5
unfathomable [1] - 14:4
unfortunate [2] - 24:20,
171:17
unfortunately [7] - 8:14,
8:18, 63:3, 81:17,
111:21, 161:6, 165:12
unfunded [1] - 131:2
unintentionally [1] 110:11
United [4] - 72:10, 73:9,
77:5, 79:13
university [1] - 130:14
unless [3] - 65:19,
122:10, 125:12
unpopular [1] - 94:14
unpredictable [1] 132:19
unpublished [1] - 59:24
unquote [1] - 42:5
unrepresented [20] 32:2, 32:11, 32:17,
33:12, 35:2, 35:25,
36:21, 37:3, 37:19,
37:23, 39:3, 43:2,
43:25, 46:13, 59:23,
60:3, 60:8, 101:23,
102:3, 110:8
unring [1] - 174:3
unsuccessful [1] - 66:8
unwed [1] - 113:17
up [50] - 8:7, 14:17,
15:2, 18:17, 19:25,
20:4, 25:15, 33:13,
40:6, 49:20, 70:24,
74:7, 75:17, 77:14,
78:5, 78:19, 79:8,
90:7, 92:6, 92:24,
98:24, 99:2, 99:4,
99:15, 101:4, 101:5,
101:23, 103:21,
103:25, 106:15,
107:16, 109:1, 114:25,
119:12, 120:23,
122:17, 122:18,
124:16, 129:15,
139:12, 143:2, 147:13,
156:1, 156:9, 156:13,
162:8, 164:11, 167:23,
168:7, 168:11
upbeat [1] - 16:5
update [1] - 59:14
upfront [1] - 104:10
upgrading [1] - 140:20
ups [1] - 92:2
upstairs [1] - 166:11
upward [1] - 47:21
upwards [1] - 47:23
urban [2] - 155:19,
156:15
urgent [1] - 63:3
usage [1] - 109:21
useful [1] - 64:24
useless [1] - 85:23
utilities [2] - 63:17,
63:23
Utilities [1] - 63:20
uttering [3] - 163:2,
166:13, 172:20
V
vac [1] - 167:18
vacant [1] - 165:5
valiant [1] - 67:15
Valley [1] - 141:2
valuable [1] - 146:23
value [3] - 47:1, 56:11,
57:14
valued [1] - 120:7
values [2] - 53:19, 53:20
Vancouver [14] - 16:9,
42:23, 63:10, 89:16,
101:25, 105:1, 107:5,
122:9, 125:23, 125:25,
127:6, 127:9, 141:4,
155:9
Vancouver's [1] - 72:11
various [6] - 2:7, 15:8,
66:19, 68:15, 74:25,
119:15
vary [2] - 144:15, 144:23
vein [1] - 5:7
versus [1] - 156:17
veteran [1] - 162:12
vibrancy [1] - 123:16
vibrant [1] - 121:15
Vicki [2] - 3:3, 3:5
Victim [1] - 17:12
victim [5] - 32:24, 35:23,
102:9, 107:3, 107:4
victimless [1] - 102:8
victims [4] - 17:20,
34:17, 41:14
Victoria [1] - 127:3
Victory [1] - 11:14
video [2] - 2:22, 3:12
VIDEO [1] - 3:14
view [10] - 5:24, 9:21,
9:23, 12:4, 12:9, 14:8,
14:22, 16:22, 91:18,
104:7
viewpoint [1] - 6:12
views [1] - 1:18
violation [1] - 52:23
violations [1] - 67:19
Violence [1] - 17:11
violence [5] - 17:15,
17:21, 35:16, 107:6,
166:13
Visa [1] - 173:24
visible [1] - 29:9
visions [2] - 170:14,
170:15
visit [3] - 171:12,
171:16, 171:20
visited [2] - 43:13, 50:10
visiting [1] - 171:14
visitor [1] - 19:8
visitorship [1] - 72:20
Vollans' [1] - 62:18
voluntarily [1] - 156:7
volunteer [1] - 4:24
volunteering [2] - 6:10
Vulimiri [2] - 126:23,
126:24
VULIMIRI [4] - 126:24,
127:10, 131:12,
133:17
vulnerable [4] - 56:13,
57:12, 143:21, 149:23
W
wage [1] - 66:22
xxv
wait [2] - 34:17, 86:11
walk [6] - 11:17, 12:15,
23:17, 44:6, 114:22,
119:22
walk-in [1] - 11:17
walks [1] - 145:17
wall [1] - 118:3
wants [1] - 168:23
war [1] - 172:24
ward [2] - 88:6, 164:13
warrant [3] - 49:18,
50:1, 50:2
wash [2] - 169:19,
174:10
Watch [2] - 54:15,
171:20
watches [1] - 165:6
watching [1] - 121:7
water [2] - 168:4, 168:7
ways [3] - 39:15, 102:5,
133:19
WCB [1] - 48:5
weak [2] - 80:2, 92:7
wealthiest [1] - 53:13
weapon [1] - 165:19
wearing [1] - 5:16
web [1] - 10:2
website [1] - 62:23
Wednesday [1] - 139:21
week [16] - 34:21, 50:10,
70:10, 73:15, 78:24,
89:21, 112:17, 139:12,
139:17, 141:10, 142:8,
148:25, 149:2, 150:12,
150:17, 161:10
weeks [2] - 67:3, 121:19
welcome [1] - 5:3
welfare [10] - 21:10,
24:7, 29:19, 65:9,
66:3, 67:23, 73:25,
74:12, 78:18, 82:16
well-being [1] - 131:2
well-funded [2] - 45:7,
129:20
well-known [1] - 91:11
well-worn [1] - 164:25
well-written [1] - 159:1
West [8] - 51:18, 51:23,
52:17, 56:13, 58:4,
58:6, 70:4, 71:24
Western [1] - 4:3
Westminster [9] - 30:21,
109:17, 162:14,
162:16, 166:25,
167:14, 168:20,
169:17, 170:19
wet [1] - 167:18
whatsoever [2] - 24:13,
114:3
whereas [1] - 164:8
WHEREOF [1] - 176:10
wherewithal [1] - 99:22
whistled [1] - 168:16
Whistler [2] - 89:5,
103:21
Whistler-Pemberton [2]
- 89:5, 103:21
White [2] - 76:22, 80:21
whole [10] - 26:8, 27:10,
30:1, 40:10, 40:23,
45:5, 63:15, 96:14,
116:14, 145:13
wider [2] - 131:19, 133:7
wife [7] - 98:24, 98:25,
99:16, 128:6, 163:13,
166:5, 166:8
William [7] - 163:22,
164:24, 165:6, 165:16,
165:22, 165:25
William's [1] - 165:15
willing [1] - 53:25
win [1] - 53:21
window [1] - 74:6
wine [2] - 167:10,
167:11
winning [1] - 54:10
wiped [2] - 10:19,
122:14
withdraw [2] - 9:8,
119:15
withdrawal [1] - 9:4
withdrew [3] - 68:19,
119:10, 125:18
WITNESS [1] - 176:10
witness [1] - 36:25
witnessed [1] - 32:19
witnesses [10] - 32:17,
34:16, 36:7, 36:9,
39:8, 39:23, 40:4,
46:10, 116:9, 116:11
woman [15] - 19:7, 21:2,
21:11, 22:22, 23:16,
25:3, 25:15, 25:19,
26:19, 29:13, 29:18,
66:2, 68:25, 69:10,
174:21
woman's [1] - 19:11
women [53] - 17:24,
18:1, 18:5, 18:12,
18:16, 18:20, 18:24,
19:3, 19:18, 19:19,
20:5, 20:8, 20:9,
20:12, 20:17, 20:19,
20:21, 21:8, 21:21,
23:8, 24:1, 24:20,
24:21, 25:2, 25:14,
26:5, 27:9, 27:21,
27:25, 28:11, 29:25,
30:5, 30:13, 47:14,
51:25, 52:3, 52:22,
53:4, 53:6, 53:9,
53:10, 53:23, 54:2,
54:4, 57:12, 57:14,
107:23, 111:5, 112:7,
137:25, 143:21,
149:22, 162:18
Women's [3] - 51:19,
105:20, 105:21
women's [4] - 48:2,
52:4, 57:10, 105:22
wonderful [4] - 52:12,
120:10, 147:5, 152:17
wondering [2] - 16:15,
149:16
word [2] - 13:12, 152:16
words [3] - 13:5, 57:20,
117:2
worker [7] - 48:16,
48:20, 105:9, 107:8,
131:25, 146:14,
157:19
worker's [3] - 64:12,
140:6, 148:15
Workers [2] - 58:7,
71:25
workers [11] - 18:21,
47:12, 53:3, 107:4,
111:25, 138:24, 139:9,
143:13, 145:18, 150:5,
150:6
workload [3] - 45:9,
112:16, 129:14
works [12] - 14:19,
20:16, 33:11, 48:17,
58:10, 62:20, 65:3,
72:1, 86:1, 130:9,
148:4, 163:11
WorkSafe [11] - 139:23,
142:13, 142:15,
142:22, 143:12,
144:15, 144:23,
146:18, 149:3, 150:15,
150:16
WorkSafeBC [8] 139:13, 141:5, 142:23,
142:24, 143:1, 143:4,
144:1, 150:2
world [2] - 53:13, 170:11
worn [1] - 164:25
worse [2] - 32:23,
119:19
worsened [1] - 137:18
worth [1] - 174:11
worthy [1] - 123:6
wrap [1] - 15:2
write [1] - 74:11
writing [4] - 2:14, 5:21,
118:2, 172:5
written [13] - 1:24, 5:2,
22:8, 22:21, 36:8,
56:15, 62:15, 72:6,
75:7, 75:8, 75:9,
158:9, 159:1
wrongfully [1] - 91:17
wrote [2] - 60:20, 80:22
Y
year [29] - 4:9, 9:2,
10:25, 11:9, 11:15,
34:7, 34:17, 47:22,
47:23, 49:14, 64:21,
68:24, 71:4, 76:25,
77:1, 88:5, 96:12,
96:25, 97:10, 97:11,
97:16, 108:22, 120:8,
130:14, 135:1, 138:12,
167:1, 172:13
years [39] - 3:21, 3:22,
8:12, 8:24, 13:22,
18:10, 30:22, 42:14,
49:19, 52:14, 58:8,
64:16, 72:16, 73:10,
78:18, 83:11, 83:20,
84:1, 88:7, 88:12,
88:13, 105:25, 106:14,
113:4, 113:10, 114:21,
119:18, 119:20, 122:4,
122:18, 122:20,
122:22, 122:23,
125:17, 139:25,
140:22, 158:22,
162:11, 169:16
yesterday [6] - 54:15,
57:20, 58:24, 113:6,
121:11, 122:8
York [1] - 43:14
young [14] - 23:3, 24:9,
57:8, 67:2, 90:10,
94:24, 117:9, 117:19,
121:12, 121:15,
165:14, 174:21
Young [1] - 90:19
youngsters [1] - 163:14
yourself [1] - 99:23
youth [5] - 87:20, 91:3,
137:25, 143:21,
149:22
Youth [1] - 88:9
youths [3] - 88:8, 90:5,
90:19
YWCA [1] - 62:21

Surrey - Public Commission on Legal Aid

Transcription

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