Andrew Ellis - PollstarPro

EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
AGENCY ROSTERS
The first band to come along
was The Get Up Kids. I was
freelance booking clubs at the
time. I was booking stuff at
Coney Island High, CBGBs and
SOBs, and I did a show for Jimmy
Eat World and the Get Up Kids at
Coney Island. They were touring
together. I talked to the Get Up
Kids and asked if they were
interested.
At the time, the roster was Get
Up Kids, Lounge, and Hot Rod
Circuit.
Andrew Ellis
Ellis Industries
S
o there’s this guy, OK? Two years ago virtually
nobody knew who he was. He was booking all
these, for lack of a better term, “no-name” bands
into New York clubs. Andrew Ellis
was only about four years into
being a so-called “full-time” agent,
but about two years into seeing
his bands emerge onto the national
radar.
First it was just him, then he
and his mom, who helped answer
the phones. Now he and his staff,
Ginny Song, Floyd Starkweather
and fellow agent Matt Galle, are
known for that very ugly, very
overused phrase of “having their
finger on the pulse.” But, come on.
Dashboard Confessional? Three
years ago, were there that many
folks out there that fully understood what Chris Carrabba was
doing?
Ellis Industries also has New
Found Glory and Alkaline Trio.
Then there’s those bands that he
has been booking for quite some
time but are just now beginning
to bust loose – Thrice and
Brand New, for instance – and
another band that’s going on
POLLSTAR’s cover, Taking Back
Sunday.
And don’t forget the Ghetto Kids.
“No, The Get Up Kids.”
Three years ago, Ellis would
have to correct club owners on
the name while trying to book
a show.
There’s no formula here, no
secret voodoo. It’s this guy who
decided to book a bunch of bands
that he liked and found out soon
enough that when your bands
12
2003 - 2004 Edition
become popular, other agents want
to book them, too.
So how did you get your start
in this booking thing?
A I didn’t have a job at the time.
I was kind of working at a record
label, Another Planet / Profile
Records. A lot of their bands
didn’t have agents, so they were
like, “Do you want to help these
bands out, or could you do
something so we can pay you
money?”
For a bunch of years, I used
to be the stage manager at The
Ritz in New York City, both
incarnations – the original one
downtown and the one that took
over Studio 54. I was doing all
the amazing punk bands, all the
bands that ended up blowing up,
like Guns N’ Roses, Dinosaur Jr.,
and The Pixies. Fishbone would
play there every other week, and
the Ramones played there.
I went from the Ritz to
booking the Grande, which was
the old Kat Club in New York City.
I booked there until the owner
closed the club.
Another Planet had Murphy’s
Law, American Standard, this
band called Stanley, and I don’t
remember the rest. I needed a job,
and they’d try to find me stuff to
do. I’m not really good at making
retail calls, so they had me try and
do booking.
So, you could say at the time
that Coney Island High, CBGBs
and SOBs was your “territory”?
So, they booked their own
bands in a very rudimentary
way. There wasn’t any tour
support or stuff like that.
Murphy’s Law was the only
band that was getting decent guarantees, and everybody else was
getting crappy guarantees. Since
there really wasn’t too much tour
support, it didn’t really go that far
or last that long. From there, I was
booking this band called Lounge.
And I started working with The
Promise Ring and that ended ...
poorly.
The record label was never
a full-time thing. It was, like,
four hours a day and very little
money. The job I was supporting
myself with was working for
Converse. The job was “Special
Markets,” which was a job
I created. The job was doing
product placement in music
and independent films. That
was way before every sneaker
company had a product placement department.
So I’d put sneakers on Nirvana
and Green Day and Snoop Dogg
and the Ramones. A lot of bands.
The other job just paid for beer
and chips. I was with Converse
for eight years, up until two years
ago.
It allowed me to decide if I
wanted to be a booking agent and
it allowed me to keep booking
when I wasn’t making a living.
A They were the easiest clubs
to go into as an independent
promoter and gave me the most
freedom. At those clubs, it was like
you booked the show, you helped
stage manage the show, you made
sure there was beer in the dressing
room, you’d deal with security
issues, and you’d just kind of run
around like an idiot.
Converse made a ridiculous
amount of contacts for me. There’s
still people that hear my name or I
work with on whatever and they’re
like, “Oh yeah! You’re the sneaker
guy!” or the “sneaker pimp” or
whatever.
So a lot of people in the concert industry already knew
you?
A No. There were definitely
people who knew who I was but,
by and large, up until a year or two
ago, people didn’t know who
I was or cared.
What would make the
difference?
A What would make the
difference? Just bands being
successful. An agent’s as big
and as powerful as the bands he
represents. When he thinks he’s
more powerful than his acts,
then he’s in a lot of trouble.
Everybody’s stepped up. When
we started out, I’d be trying to get
a date for the Get Up Kids and the
EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
AGENCY ROSTERS
clubs would be like, “The Ghetto
Kids”?
“No, The Get Up Kids.”
But that was way before this
whole wave of music started to
do really well, I guess.
Were you attracted to bands
that played this type of music?
A I was just attracted to bands
that I liked.
If I can’t sit through a show,
then I’m not going to book
the band. If there’s a band that’s
going to do really well, and I
think they stink or I don’t like
the music or whatever, I’m not
going to book ’em. If I can’t look
the band in the face and talk
about the show and music, it’s
not what I want to do. I don’t
want it to feel like work going
to a show.
The newest band I’ve picked
up is a band called Dios. A friend
of mine had a demo of theirs
and just said I should check
it out. I did, and it’s just great.
It’s something between The
Flaming Lips and the Beach Boys.
They’re based out of Hawthorne,
where the Beach Boys were
from.
The guys are just completely
green about what the whole
music industry is and the crap
that goes on. It’s refreshing
totally starting at ground zero.
They’d never toured outside
California. They didn’t have
a record label deal out there.
They were burning their own
CDs, writing on the case, and
selling them at shows. Total
punk rock, guerilla marketing.
Did you see them play outside
of California?
A I’ve never booked a band that
I hadn’t seen play live. The music
can be good but I’ve never picked
up a band that was bad live and
the music was good.
I went to this dive bar in
Hollywood; I can’t even remember the name of it. There was no
real stage, just this carpeted area
they were playing on. I was out
here for something and asked
them to book an L.A. show so
I could see them.
Is that the case for most of the
bands you pick up?
A All of the bands I’ve picked up
have been on an indie label first.
There’s never been a major label
band. A lot of them are on major
labels now, but a lot of them were
in their infancy.
At the time, were you in
competition with the “big”
agencies for these bands?
A It’s like anything else. When
you’re first starting out and
there’s some kind of success,
then people want to see how
loyal those bands are to you
and stuff like that. If there’s
something successful and people
aren’t sure of how well that
property’s protected, they’re
going to test it.
When you first start out,
you’re very green to everything
that’s going on and you’re like,
“Wow! Look at all these (other)
agents that are checking out
my band!” you know? And
then you realize they’re not
there as music fans. I think
there’s a lot of agents or agencies
that acquire their talent that
way.
Is there a formula for picking
these bands, or is it just as
simple as, “Wow. I like them”?
A Yeah, I guess it’s just timing
and luck, and it’s what I like.
I guess all those things.
Where was Dashboard
Confessional’s career “at”
when you first approached
Chris?
A That’s actually a good
story. I was booking New
Found Glory on this DriveThru Records tour and the
guitar player, Chad, was like,
“We have this friend, he
ELLIS INDUSTRIES’ Matt Galle, a delicious Floyd Starkweather and Andrew.
plays acoustic guitar and
we want him to go on inbetween bands during the set
change.”
I didn’t want to do that.
It was going to screw the show
up; it was going to make the set
change longer. It didn’t make any
sense.
But Chad was persistent.
“It’s only going to be 15 minutes,
it’s not going to make a big
deal.”
Whatever.
I was fighting him on it,
we were arguing about it, and
he says the guy will go on 15
minutes at the doors and play
15 minutes on the stage, how’s
that?
I was like, fine, OK, whatever.
So we put him on the tour.
And I started hearing from Chad
and other people that this is
really good, it’s going well; here’s
this guy nobody’s ever heard
of playing by himself on an
acoustic guitar at a punk rock
show, and people are being super
attentive.
Then, when I saw it live,
I thought, This is awesome.
We had a show in New Jersey
and I sat in his van – it was
just him and his merch person
touring in a van – and we
talked and started working with
him.
Where did you start booking
Chris Carrabba?
A There used to be – and I guess
there still is but I don’t think to
the same degree – some amazing
halls all over the country. VFWs,
coffee shops, karate schools. Here
and there you’d put a club in.
Coney Island High was a great
club to start bands out at and
break them in. People at CBGBs
have always been awesome with
that. Chain Reaction in California has been great with that.
Emo’s has always been amazing
and helpful with super, super
below-the-radar, unknown stuff.
There’s guys in Florida, an
independent company that takes
notice before clubs even care. In
Long Island, there’s this promoter
out there, Christian, who’s always
done an amazing job.
We’d do a show in this VFW
hall and there’d be 300 kids there.
Then the band would come back
six months later and there would
be 1,000 people there.
Maybe I’m in a different
place now, but I just don’t see
that anymore. There was this
kid in New Jersey named Rickie
who used to do these VFW halls
and firehouse shows. He didn’t
know anything about doing a
show. The band would play a
show and if it did well, he’d give
2003 - 2004 Edition
13
EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
them $200. There was no deal
or contracts or anything like
that.
I don’t know if it was more of
me helping him or corrupting
him, but I’d show him how a club
would work and how he could
use elements of a club show in
a hall show so that he could make
money, the bands could make
money, and he could have a
better PA.
He did everything. He did At
The Drive-In, he did The Get Up
Kids, he did Jimmy Eat World,
New Found Glory, Piebald, just
all these bands that ended up
being really successful.
While you were saying that,
the publicist for Brand New
just called in to pitch the band
for the cover.
A Well, that’s good. Taking Back
Sunday is going to be on the
cover. Man, that’s great.
Any acts that you have that
are about to break?
A I dunno. There’s a few young
bands. Dios, Senses Fail, and My
Chemical Romance. Then there’s
Straylight Run, which are two
of the guys who played in Taking
Back Sunday who left and started
their own band. They have an
upcoming co-headline tour with
the New Amsterdams, which is
Matt from The Get Up Kids’
other project.
The New Amsterdams’ new
record is amazing. It’s not a Get
Up Kids record; it’s Matt’s record.
It’s something to check out.
It came out about five months
ago.
When did you feel the need
for a staff?
A At first, it was just me. Then,
my mom would help me. She
would answer the phones and
still helps out. I’m lucky that she
was willing to help. I just knew
that it was getting to be too much
work. I was getting up at 11 a.m.
in the morning and going to bed
14
2003 - 2004 Edition
AGENCY ROSTERS
at 6 a.m. and taking a 30-minute
nap during the day.
But that was just kind of tough
to do.
So, I was talking to Ginny Song
on the phone. She used to work
at Clear Channel – she took care
of the D.C. area. We’d talk on the
phone. I don’t even remember
how it came up but I asked if
working here would be of any
interest to her. She said yes,
and she’s worked out better
than anything I could have ever
wished for. She runs the show
behind the scenes.
Matt (Galle) used to work
for MassConcerts and he also
worked at the Kenmore Agency.
I’ve been working with Matt for
a really long time and I don’t
even remember how the subject
came up but we talked a lot on
the phone and he had bands I
liked, and Matt loves music and
always had a really good work
ethic. So he left Boston and
moved to Long Island and that’s
worked out really well, too. He’s
got his ear to the streets and
hears about stuff. He and Ginny
are a great sounding board and
give me a different angle on
things.
Was your office always in the
same place?
A No. I mean, I live in the city,
so we’re in the city sometimes,
but the office is in Great Neck. We
bought a place in Long Beach
and there’s a lot of construction
issues, so it’s been kind of
sitting there waiting for a floor
to be put in because an outside
wall had to be fixed. But,
essentially, it’s a Long Island
company.
So, right now, your office is all
across America?
A I guess. It’s wherever there’s
a cell phone signal or a modem.
So you’re carrying a laptop
around with you.
A No.
ELLIS INDUSTRIES’ Ginny Song and Matt Galle plot strategy with Andrew inside the
company’s Star Chamber.
No?
A No. I don’t carry computers.
I despise computers and I hate
e-mail. I won’t work with any
promoter who wants to work
with me exclusively by e-mail.
And I won’t work with an agent
who works exclusively by e-mail.
If you can’t get on the phone
and talk to someone, then I really
don’t need to do this with you.
I know people are in a hurry and
e-mailing the itinerary is fine, but
when it comes to negotiating a
show or talking about a tour,
in one conversation you can
get done what would take 10
back-and-forth e-mails.
Did you ever try?
A I tried a little bit and thought,
This stinks. I don’t like getting
400 e-mails a day saying, “Hey!
What are you doing? What’s
going on later today?”
Just pick up the phone.
I still have e-mail but if you go
to [Pollstar’s Agency Directory],
my e-mail address isn’t listed
anywhere. It’s just too informal.
“Hi. I heard about you through
whatever and I was wondering
how much this band costs.”
Just pick up the phone!
What’s even better is when it’s
something really urgent and they
e-mail you. They’ll say, “Didn’t
you get my e-mail?” I check my
e-mail once a day or every other
day. There’s a few people I just
started working with and I’ve
said, “Don’t ever e-mail me if
it’s anything you need addressed
in the next day or two.”
If somebody sends me an
e-mail and they’re looking
for whatever band to play this
college or date, I’ll e-mail the person back and say, “Cool, thank
you for your interest. What’s the
best number to reach you at?”
So why would you need to stay
up until 6 a.m.?
A I don’t sleep a lot. And when
I first started out, I would go to
bands’ Web sites and see where
they were playing all over the
country and try to research the
rooms and see what other bands
were playing the rooms. The
Internet has made booking a
million times easier.
There are kids who are
promoters who promote stuff
or halls or rent out clubs that
either go to school or have
another job and are never
around. You can leave a message
on their cell phone but, ultimately, you’re going to get
in touch with them by sending
EXECUTIVE INTERVIEW
AGENCY ROSTERS
them an e-mail, or you’re going
to find out how to get in touch
with them by sending them an
e-mail.
I guess there’s good and bad
things to it. I don’t remember
how many times I’d be on the
Internet for hours. I can’t even
remember the Web sites now,
but there were all these amazing
regional punk Web sites that
would just list all these hall shows
and all these contacts.
I’ve got about 22 or 23 bands
on my roster right now. There’s
a lot of bands that have side
bands or other bands. I still keep
these hours because I tell all the
bands that I work with that I’m
accessible. If there’s a problem
with the show, you can call me.
I make myself accessible until
probably 3 to 4 a.m., which is
probably a dumb thing. Just as
long as they don’t call me before
11 a.m. the next day.
Everybody has a learning
curve. Some bands and some
people are unbelievable students
of the game and other ones take
a lot longer to learn those same
lessons.
“The guy’s trying to take
advantage of this expense or
that expense,” or, “He said we’re
not supposed to get this,” or,
“There’s no catering,” or, “Things
are really screwed up with
settlement,” or, “Is this a real
expense?” or, “The guy’s Ticketmaster is a lot less than what he
said he sold.”
You know, there’s just a million
things. There’s a lot of stuff.
Everybody learns at a different
pace and, hopefully, people will
start catching on. You hope.
What’s your philosophy on
establishing a band from the
ground level up?
A You just want to keep a young
band out touring as much as
possible. They’re going to learn
by touring.
Sure, there’s certain clubs, certain agents, but there is no super,
super baby band way or medium/
middle size band way or larger/
big band way – it’s not like that.
There’s obviously gradual
increases in room size but it’s
a really bad situation when a
band hasn’t toured at all or has
done three shows when you’ve
picked them up. There’s a certain
amount of homework a band
needs to do.
There’s been a few bands that
have come up to me and I’ve
told them, “You guys don’t need
a booking agent yet. Me being
your booking agent isn’t going
to help you. You need to do the
grassroots – the super grassroots
stuff – like the garage and basement shows, and you don’t need
me calling as a booking agent
to say, ‘Hey, can I have my band
play in your basement?’
“But, keep in touch or, if I have
a show coming through, I’ll try to
put you on the bill.”
Did being a former stage
manager help you at all?
A It’s helpful when it comes to
costs. I’ll see an offer sheet and
know how much it costs to do
this, or to hire that. As things get
more complicated with unions
and everything else, being a
club stage manager doesn’t have
that much relevance but in a lot
of other aspects, it does – in
running a show, talking to a tour
manager and telling him that
load-in should be around a
certain time or that a set change
shouldn’t take any longer than
a certain amount of time.
When was your first arena
show?
A Last year, New Found Glory,
Cox Arena, San Diego.
Was that a new experience
as far as negotiation goes?
A Yeah, as far as different
expenses and different things
to take in. You know, I did my research. Hopefully well. Rick
DeVoe, working with Blink-182
and then managing New Found
DASHBOARD CONFESSIONAL’S Chris Carrabba (2nd from R) gets his first hockey jersey
at his first arena show September 6th at Lowell, Mass.’ Tsongas Arena. Along with
Andrew are Dashboard bassist Scott Shoenbeck, MassConcerts’ John Peters and
arena GM Craig Gates.
Glory, has been very helpful.
Rich Egan, being with The Get
Up Kids, Dashboard Confessional and then Vagrant Records
with Alkaline Trio and Hot Rod
Circuit, he’s always been very
helpful and supportive.
What about your contract?
Did you have to do a lot of
revisions at first?
A Oh, it’s constantly being revised. You’ve gotta find people
who will help you out. There’s so
much stuff, like keeping your eye
on Ticketmaster, that people can
talk to you about, but it’s through
experience. It’s trial and error
and, hopefully, you don’t botch
things up too much while you’re
learning. You’d hate to think one
of your bands is your “learning
experience.”
But there are, you know?
And all your bands benefit from
all the mistakes you made or
did make, or will make. But, you
know, it’s only a bad mistake if
you make it twice.
The truth of the matter is,
if myou have managers that
are willing to help you with,
for instance, getting a hold of
contracts or other information
from other artists they have, then,
if you’re a small agent and you’re
working with a manager that has
bigger clients, before they trust
you they’re going to see how
attached the band is to you.
Then, after that understanding
is established, they look to help
you out as a business person with
contracts or lawyers or just pieces
of advice.
I would say that, starting out,
I didn’t know anything, or know
anybody or who to contact or
who to call and, for some reason,
it was a bunch of female agents
that were the most helpful. It was
Eva Alexiou at Fata Booking,
Stormy Shepherd (Leave Home
Booking), Robin Taylor at Inland
Empire and Margie (Alban) at
Do It Booking. For some reason,
they took mercy on me, helped
me out and gave me phone
numbers and contacts, which
I thank them for greatly.
If somebody wanted to get
into this business, what would
be the first thing you suggest
they do?
A If you wanted to become an
agent? Find a bunch of bands you
like. *
2003 - 2004 Edition
15