The following transcript of Alfred “Alf” Mash`s interview on

The following transcript of
Alfred “Alf” Mash’s interview
on
Memories and Music
(broadcast February 3, 1974)
was created by the Sudbury Public
Library as part of a
Summer Canada Project
in 1982.
SUDBURY PUBLIC LIBRARY
I TERiIEWEE:
INTERVIEWER:
A f .Mash
D. M.
TAPE
0:
94
THEME:
D••
ow fIxgfriend s and nmighbours we 've got a most interesting
friend and ne ighbour to chat x with today ; Mr . Alf Mash . Alf
xrix x retired the day before Christmas in 1966 after being
,with Inco for 49 years and 6 months . Well now tell us Alf
you might have made it an even 50 , how come that with 50
doesn ' t get in there?
'
A. M.
Didn ' t , KRXxxtEX«E didn ' t want to do one more winter. If the
winters weren ' t so cold but xix this travelling back from
Sudbury to Copper Cliff . I had moved to K Sudbury XkR at the
last two years K before I got my ~xisxx pe~sion and I was
travelling on this bus and I ~ didn ' t want to do no more .
D-. M.
And you t hought after 49 and a kia£ half years that was about
enough, e~?
.
\
A. M.
Time to , time to hang up _
,D. M.
Now WK Alf how many miles would you travel in 49 and -a half
years? Have you ever figured that ' one out?
A. M.
Oh no , never tried to f igure that xxx thing out .
D. M. " You don ' t consider yourself a million mile pilot or
t i n like that .
A. .
~
0 ,
Jim
any thin
no , no , no , no .
D. M.
All right Alf let ' s start at the beginning. Where you' r e
from? Where ' s your , where were you born , where ' s your home
town?
A. M.
In England someplace .
D. M.
Somep ace . Wherex abouts in England?
A. M.'
In England , in Co+"
D. M.
Now what ' s familar about Qor 1n
A.M.
All I xx know about that place , there ' s an airport there.
D..
I see and how
A.M.
About 9 years old .
D.M.
And presumab y you immigrated to gax« Canada, is that right?
A. .
Yet that ' s £ right ., To North Bay.
D. M.
Well why Canada xa« and why North Bay .
A. Me
We 1 mlf father had friends in North Bay so that ' s 'where, we
. .
00 din'. CcvrlOl'
( 1! 1r1t>r.. ?
.
0
were you when you left Courttn?
2
had to go SJ§BIIl1l somep ace where we had somebody t?, go to ,
to start with.
D. M,.
That xtrk strikes me as kind of interesting , eh?
You ' d look
fmx at a great big country , you ' d say you know one person in
town or one city and we're going there , eh?
A. M.
That ' s right . We went (unintelligible) friends and this '
friend , he had his son in ~ North Bay and that ' s where he
headed for .
D. M.
Do you have any recollections of coming to Canada?
A. M.
o I
D.M .
~xKt
A. M.
Father as on strike at the time with the printers and he
thought he ' d better get some place to ~ake a living to keep
us kids .
D. M.
That ' s as good a reason , I think as any . So a , KEX here we
have you then , you and your father and mother in North
A. M.
Two sisters.
~on ' t
remember much about it at all .
Why did your father, why) d1d the family immigrate A f?
And two sisters at this time .
A.M . ' Yeah two , oh yeah XX
~
They were older sisters , eh?
A.M .
They were older than me ,
D. M.
To North Bay in 1913 and did your father get into printing
when he got over Xhere?
A. M.
No he went right to work for the C.P.R. Just one end of
the KE~k' kind of work to HEEXkHx the opposite kind of work .
From (unintelligible)
A.MV-kl! l ":Jwf
I
\
~eah .
'
t.
J
D. M.
I ' ve got to admit Alf that ' th~t quite a switch from_ Rrinter
to K locomotive . How did he get that? ~ Did he just Kks Kk
as f or any kind of a job! and be offered that or what?
A. M.
These friends ' come along , I suppose they ' done the best thei
could for him to, get him a job and I guess he was glad to
get anything he could dox them days.
D. M.
Well now tell us a little bit about the impressions of a .
%XXXXE young English boy in North Bay around 1913 s to ~ . ~
' 14 going to sOhool .
.
.
A.M .
Dh we had to take up mus ic lessons XXEX and that was one thing
against my grain , l was never going to be a s inger.
D.M .
Did you find the . sports or anything like that differentX at
all?
A. M.
~,
D.M .
Well yes sports them days K2%RHXX wasn't so active as they
are today or I me'a n to say at 'that time I was just new in the
country and I didn ' t get a chance to get into these things as
much as the kids do today do they .
I
guess not , eh?
A. M. . No I never;)r try -10
But did you ·ever tr7 to play hockey or
~~~
f [, 1
)
D. M.
Softball .
A. M.
No, I HXR never tried to play hockey . -I just got myself a
pair of skates and then just skated for fun . That ' $ all but
never tried t o play hockey , m no .
D. M.
Are there any , x any people around that you , men around or
women around that you went to school with . at K that time'2
A. M.
No I see some of them 9+\!t I don ' t know there names , ~ .
they ' re girls , they 're ' aifferent ~ith girls when you see
girls today you rememb r the m but when they ' re all married
today they± al l got different names , you can ' t place herR
any more .
D. M• . All right then K Alf when did you , at what age and what year
did you finish s chool in North Bay'2
A. M.
% Well % we , I , I got xx out of North Bay about at the end
of 14 I guess , beginning of 15 I guess. Come up~tb Copper
Cliff , SX~K stayed with my sister she got married .
D. M.
All right andxk then what
A. M.
Well then I hung around , I S went to school in Copper Cliff.
happen~d'2
D. M. Right .
And then 17k I started to work for Inco as a messanger boy.
were~mx
D. M.
What ' kind of work
A. M.
A
D. M.
2KkRxx Taki ng messages from who to where,
mag
you doing then?
e messanger boy for Inco in the General Office.
0
~Arl
Rmx From around townx and , and a one thing used to
ak~~
happen in them days there was a man by the name of Mr . Wrinkler
he worked . mn the Engineering Department and when he come back
from where he was going , we used to ati:x jt. s drive them home
and then take the HEXRS horse and buggy back to the delivery
stable .
...;
,
D.M.
WeI now 'ust a m' nute , when you, when you were de ivering
messages were they , was this by hors e and buggy or was this
bicyc e
A.M.
No , no we , when his man come from wherever he went all day.
D. M.
Yeah .
,
f\V
4
A.M .
He be , co.me back to. his o.f ice , to. his £ o.ffice.
D. M.
Right .
A.M .
When we'd nave to. take the ho.rse back to. the delivery stable
D.M.
Oh I see.
A.M.
Cause he wo.n ~ t want to. take it to. the de ivery stable , he ' d
send us kids do.wn xx with it.
D.M.
Well did yo.u enjo.y that wo.rk? .
A.M .
WeI I ' enjo.yed , it was rea
waited fo.r .
D. M.
Well Alf we ' re trying to. get this into. perspective. Incidenta y £ix riends and neighbo.urs we ' re chatting with Alf Mash
who. retired o.n the 1day be o.re Christmas in 1966 after being
wi th Inco. o.r 49 ' 1ml!i:Ja[xtud::f years and 6 mo.nths . After that
he tho.ught he didn ' t want 6 mmRt mo.re x 'mo.nths , 49~ years was
'
lo.ng eno. g . I believe Alf we were talking xxx abo.ut yo.ur
father being in No.rth Bay and then co.ming to. Co.pper Cli f , is
that x±gkx~ what happened?
A.M~
Yeah he co.me to. Co.pper , he bro.ught me to. Co.pper Cliff •
. D.M .
~
nice that was what ,we 0Cx all
Yeah .
A. M.
To. stay with my sister and while he was in Co.pper C iff o.ne
o.f the neighbo.urs to.o.k him xxxmxxx thro.ugh the smelter and
the first thing he saw so.mething he likes and they go.t him
a jo.b and xu he stayed x up here . He to.o.k it in
D.M .
Alf I was go.ing to. say that it ' s , it ' s nice to. have
Who. was this that helped yo.u o.ut?
A.M.
A man by the name o.f
D. M.
We I no.w Alf yo.u , yo.u didn ' t sat as a Mm:SSKgx messenger bo.y
yo.u so.rt o.f eo.t a , pro.mo.tio.n :fm fro.m there , is that right?
A.M.
Go.t a jo.b fro.m o.ne Genera
x wo.rked fo.r To.m Caine.
D.M.
What kind o.f wo.r
A.M.
MessengerR rbo.y , fi ing o.ver there , invo.ices, and cleaning ~
the o.ffic ~ in the mo.rning , and getting everything straight
fo.r when the men co.me to. wo.rk.
• M.
, .A.M .
k.
~r .
fri~nds.
Alex gm Curr , well-kno.wn in Sudbury.
o.ffice to. the wareho.use o.f ice
were yo.u do.ing in there? '
Right •
Abo.ut 3 mo.nths o.f that and then o.verix in the next o.ffice
do.o.r, I wo.rk fo.r sho.p ' s o.ffice delivering mX~~Rr o.rders
aro.und the sho.p. Everybo.dy co.me in wanted wo.rk done , it was
my jo.b to. take the. sho.p o.rders aro.und m to. each sho.p.
~
ne~t
5
.M.
But I believe that after this sort of c erical work you got
onto , you moved into the locomotive shop. Now is that right?
A.M .
Yeah that was the idea getting started that way and then we
got set ' up in whatever shop ~ou were trying to get into , you
went into , I 'went into the locomotive shop .
D.M.
We 1 now had you wanted specifecally to get into the
shop.
ocomotive
/
' A.M.
I wanted to go ,in that so bad , locomotive work . Because being
in North Bay watching my dad hang around the roun house , I
got that idea that I wanted to be around engines.
D.M.
Right.
A. M.
X But I mgX might say
D.M.
Yeah
A.M.
When I was in these of ices , every time I went out of ah office
to go to another £office there was a fellow fol owing me by
the name of , while ~HX' you ' re in Sudbury , Ho ly Highland .
D.M .
Is see. , Is he
/
Holly followed me and he went X into the machine shop.
D. M.
Right , O.K : x well now we , what was your first job in the locomotive shop'
A. M.
Well learning to name all the different names of tools and ,
and do what I was told file and take things apart , most of
the • • • the first part was clean up all the dirt and grease
off R of everything ax after the , after the guys took the
engine apart , and then I kK« used to
D.M .
Wel that sounds , that sounds reasonable now • • • literally
what would you have to clean up I mean when you say took the
engin~ apa rt.
What d o ~you Km mean by that?
A. M.
Well they took the side bars off , clean the grease all off
them and when they Xm take the (unintelligibl e ) k~mx boxes
off and take all the packing out and take the break shoes
off and clean all the grease off them . 'So then • • • lay
i f al out s£ on the floor so when we put the new stuff on,
it ' ll all be new stuff to put back on agai~ you see .
D. M.
Well then , when you ' d strip down a ' ocomotive then
far would you strip it down , how many?
A. M.
Strip it right down , tExt jU9t' ftbe frame nothing left on it
just the frame , just the kx ~ and the £X frame and then
the boiler mixers come in and take all the tubes out .
D. M.
Right .
A. •
And they ' d put ~ll new tubes in , it would just be the boiler
and t~e frame. They ' d be « nothing else , the engine would be
just sitting up on two bocks on XRE wheels . the car~~ .
« bow
6
D. M.
This would just , the engine would just be a shell holl , shell
that
D. .
A.M .
Just a hoI ow shell , K yeah , ~KH yeah and then we stopped/fro~
there and buil ~ right up again all new parts right on it
I
find that interesting you couldn ' t do that with a car to
though.
A. M.
No , no , no.
D.M .
The engines were a little simplier to take apart and (uninte 1i g ible )
A. M.
Cars you just take an
engine right ' in .
D.M .
Right .
A. M.
Just the same you do with electric
locomotives tod~y , you
take the motor out and~ put another motor right in.
engin~
right K out and put KX anothe
I
D.M.
Oh I see but in those days you , you took
A. M.
Took everything apart and put new stuff on .
D. M.
How s long would k it take to strip down a locomotive?
A. M.
Oh it would take an average in the shop maybe 3 weeks .
D. M.
How many men would be working at her?
A. ,M.
Oh gee , there would be 5 or 6 men , 5 or , yeah 5 or 6 men .
Maybe , maybe four boiler makers and a coup e of ~elpers.
D. M.
Right well now before the broadcast Alf you were telli,n g us
something that I found interesting about XkK what you call
cha,n ging a ti,r e .
'
A. M.
Oh
.
locomot~ve , now just what was that a I about .
,
~-l
\
Now we had a rim XkKi go BX the outside of the tire and then
we ' d put the heat to it and get it red hot and then ' two m~n ,
one on each side of the sledge hammers would drive this rmm
right on and then another man would put shims in all around
for , then let it coo off so the tire would set and that ' s
what keeps the t f ange on t~e sX~KX outside , that ' s what
keeps that engine on the track .
'
A steam
A.M .
D. M.
A. M.
Oh that ' s interesting and what do they do with , the , with the
old tires .
Take them to the machine shop and then tear ,
,again .
do~
D•
•
•
ight .
~
tear them
7
A. M.
And put a little. bit of a BRxe bevel on them and make a nice
flange and if they ' re not too
D.M .
Th1ok ,
A. M.
And
D. M.
oW , m 0 course , there isn ' t , is there , doe s that apply to
modern day die s e engines or was that just the 0 d steam
engine .
A.M .
That was just the old steamKHX engines , K yeah . I don ' t know
what they do with , with the modern engines today . Just take
the whole wheel raft and put a new set right OP e
D. M.
Right .
.
Q.yJ
~
XRSHK
reuse them ,
e~ .
reuse them again .
J
Well now Alf sort of recapitulating we ' ve got you , your father
immigrated to Canada , when to North Bay . He had been a printer
he got a job in the roundhouse . at North Bay . You s watched
him working with locomotives , ' you wanted to try it out after
apprentising with Inco and messenger boy and so on you got at
that . This was around 1920 , ' 21 or something , I believe there
was a plant shut down about that time , is that right?
,
~iM .
Y~ah when the plant shut down that time , a 1 the single boys
got laid off around Copper C iff s o I just took of and went
wherever
c'ould get work .
D. M.
Well I be ieve , was it about thisx time that
for some wo~k out around the west.
A.M.
Yeah I went out west • • • money I ~ did have . At that time,
we got a tic et as far as Winnipeg for 1. and a ter Winnipeg,
KNKXRXX wherever you went after that was 10 cents a mile.
D. M.
That is • •• just a bunch a of young.fe
21 years old yourse f.
A• •
Yeah and we all worked out at different places and everybody
thought they knew where they could get a job and of course
some was left on our own . I landed x in Regina and I got
broke and'I handed , I went and looked for hand outs to~
KK« buy a piece of ~ pie and a cup of coffee and a room for
a , night in the chinese restaurann.
D. M.
A.M.
Those werex , XNKHX those were tough days' there (uninteeligible )
~.
.
4
~akxXk
were tough days , yeah.
D.M.
B~t
A.M .
I ' ve ha
100 i ng
you~ ,
you tried
ows you ' d be 20 or
ack on them they don ' t s eem to be so toughx, ~ eh:
,
a 810t·of laughs out of them since.
And then ~ we got a job XRRr through the emp oyment 0 fice
and sent to an 0 d place cal ed ·lds tone and I put 9 M months
. down ther~.
8
What were you doing down
aroundxMi~
Mi dstone?
A· •
Working on this man ' s farm an I never drew a day ' s wages
Hri ' til the day I quit. He says , "Anything you want go to
the schoo and charge it up in his name , when you quit2 I' 1
write you out all your money at once. " So went
quit he
gave me about $400 .
bl /AHl
i .M
Well maybe he had experience 'with young fe
.
s~J
lows~
with
8)~~)~
,)
~J7
_tor
A.M .
And another thing he ~ , "If you quit smoking around my
barn, I ' ll give you $10 extra whe n you quit."
D. M.
He sounds
name?
Xl:
7f'J~
J
ike a pretty wise \old fellow , eh . What waSH his
Mr . Gen.
A.M.
if
D• •
Mr. Glen , eh. 0\'\' ~
A••
G en, yeah, ~e livmd,mulX he lived in town. and he rented his
farm to another couple on a , on a percentage base.
D. M.
Right .
A. M.
I don ' t know xKXK what it was.
I don ' t know.
D. M.
WeI you young fellows then from the age of 17 or 18 to 21
or 22 . Those weren ' t easy times but they weren ' t all that
bad , eh?
A. M.
They
D. M.
I guess
not.
,
A.M .
We ' ve always got , we ' ve always got time to eat.
.
were~ ' t
\ \O~~
'\
~yv
60, 40 or whatever it
was~
easy times but we never got hungry .
D. M• . If you ,had asked for it on the str~ets .now and again . A little
different from today ' s with our une mploY2ment insurance commissm ion.
A.M .
. D. M.
Oh yeah no worry , no worry¥ today .
I don ' t know if there ' s any young fellows listenins to this
not but there , there you have it m~ friends .
t~
f1'.
,Well now Mr . Mash it was , was it not around about this time
that , that something 2interesting Khappened on a street in
Toronto .
A. M.
Oh
D. M.
Like to tell us something about that.
A. M.
I was walking down a street and I saw this girl and I figured
she was a relation . of mine , as I had relations in Toronto . So
I waiked up m and touched .her on the shoulder and said , "JC You ' r
9
too proud to speak mr no,." . " She s turn around and I says ,
"It xax wasn ' t my relation after a ll , so I had to apologize
and the apo ogy turned out and we got going steady and in
1924 we got married .
D. M.
Now I ' ve heard many stor~e s about how pe ople meet or howm
Dan Cupid works or r omantic andXk that ' s , that ' s one of th ~
great one s . One of the fellows we had on here a while back~
his name RIK escapes me at the moment , I don ' t know if it
was Rush Brown or not mentJoned h~ was working in a store
and looked out on the street and saw a girl going by and
sai d , "That ' s the girl I ' m going to get married to ." I
mean , it ' s amazing the way that wo rks ~ O.K . this ' end was
1924 you said .
A. .
' 24 we got married .
D. M.
' R~
A. M.
Yeah
D. .
So what were you doing in 1924?
A. M.
I was back in Copper Cliff .
D. M.
Ah doing what?
A. M.
Oh back on , on the crane . Ah master~v' mechanic , master , I
had a job , I had a choice to go on the , on the steam engine ,
on the dinky . But the master mechanic , he talked me into
going on the crane .
'
D. M.
Oh I see .
A. M.
So I went on the crane to please him and 15 years I got off
of that one and when back on thel)'engines .
D. M.
Well now Alf I "guess in those ays you were , somebo~y sort
of suggested you try this or that job . You attended to
A. M.
You went along you done what you were to d .
D. M.
0
'
24 • .
a , what about ' family! A f?
V /I. io-v. LV (c:..
Any family Alf?
A.. .
I have three daughters .
D. .
Where are they?
A. M.
One in Ottawa , two in Sudbury and one girl in Sudbury is a
nurse and one another girl worksf for Inco in the General
office and the other gir xm in Ottawa , she ' s a nurse , too.
D. M.
Now I beat you would like to say Hel 0 to your daughters .
and maybe to your grandchildren. WaUld you ike to do that
give their xx name s! on this ~ broa cast maybe?
AeM.
Hel o ·Sandy , Hello ( uninte l igible) , Susie and Mark .
D. M.
Are they pre ety good grandhhi dren A f?
-
1
.
.
A..
Yeah th~y ' re gm~ good kids . I got one boy there , he ' s in
all kinds of sport , he plays lacre sse and he pays hockey
and he plays basketball .
D.M .
Well Alf I gather that as a young English boy over here at
North Bay you*« didn ' t , you didn ' t skate well enough . You
didn ' t get into hockey or so on . But ~2K that you ' ve been
quite a sports fan f or many , many years. ~x Now of
a l l the hockey that you 've watched whose your number 1, all
time hockey star as far as you ' re concerned .
A. M.
Jean Bellevi Ie .
D. M.
Well alot of ~ people will go along with that now . But
tEms2 others wi 1 agrue on behalf 0 Rocket Reshard or
Gord me Howe maybe . What do you think?
•• M Well they ' re a
good paayers but Bellevei le has been underrated or a long time but Gordie Howe' and ocket they ' re
stil good , you can ' t take anything away from them . ' But
D. M. · I be lieve that 'you have remarried Alf , is that right?
A. M.
Yeah I got married in , in the December 1971.
D. M.
his I believe was the Widow of another Inco
emp . oy~e.
A. M.
Another Inco employee , yeah , a Sudbury
ady .
D. M.
Alf we , as I recal itx you meet your first 'wife because
on a street . in Toronto you tapped a young ady on the shoulder
and said , "Too proud to speak to me now ." 'How did you meet
your sec ond wife?
A.M .
Oh I got roped into carrying a kH« bunch of tea towels
H ~ome.
One night after a Friday.
D. M.
And the tea towels
A. M.
And the tea towe s ead to hol. ing hands, and you know from
tbere on we ' d go to theD show and that was it . -AmI-. I~ AN\.
ead to what?
. ~11-.
We 1 Ann you may have a comment or two to make to Al when
you hear thisxkm broadcast .
ow I gather Al you ' re interested in some c ub work around town , what, what organization
is it that you ' re with?
A.M.
be ong to the independent Order of Old Fe lows and we tried
to do a we can to help others and ook a ter the under
privi ege~ and see that everything they need try to give it
to them and ~ we are ral ies and raffles to raise money to,
to buy these things. To g ' ve these peop e whee chairs and
beds and
D. M.
Now Alf i n retirement I gkK gather that trave ing is
bit
of a hobby. Did you not take quite a trip to the Maritimes
here a while ago?
.
,A .
•
a
Yes this summer we put 42 days down to the
it a 1 .
antimes , covered
11
. M.
A. M.
~M.
A. f
0
Right .
And then finished up in the Lake ront Wasaga f or nine days
to get a rest after 'd riving 5 , 000 mi es . Third trip to the
,Mari~imes 'and 5 trips on the West coas t .
We
now as .an engineer has you. ever trave
ed much by train?
T never oved travel i ng on trains when I was running them
but .(unintelligib e ) on my holidays •.
D.M .
Right • .
A.M .
At one time out in Manitoba , province the R. C. M. P . stopped
me on the side of the road and he said , tlWhere do you think
you ' re going1 t1 I had a 6 cy inder Comet and he'pulled me
overBH ong the side % of the road forgoing 70 mxxg m.p.h;
So I had to explain to him my ~~BXX occupation and show
him k my xix license an~HK he called it all into the desk
at R ( unine ell1~ible) I had to sit there and listen to the
sergenent from (unintelligible) talk back to the mountie
in t he car . I couldn~
answer him back and the mountie at
(unintelligible ) says , tl bJ[ What do you think , you ' re runmilng
your engine now ,tI he says . tlWe want your respect BH our
highways ."
D. M.•
Well at least Alf he had a sense of humor • .
A. M.
Yes he let me off anyway , I got away with it .
D. M.
Fine. Ar! you ' re been around a while , you ' ve seen/good
times and. bad times . You ' re been on your uppers Jrs , as
the peop e used to say in the west . But you ' ve retained
a great sense of humor , you ' ve done what you ' ve ' wanted
~~t to do pretty we I
with your life . You have and advi s e
or suggestions or modes or anything for a young fellow start ing out M now . What would, you say! to him?
AM .
We ll if he ' s in my line of work , make sure that when he g~ts .
the thing started if he ' s on an engine , to make sure that he
can stop it . ' Cause as the K master mechanic to d me , anybody
can start them but you got ·to know xhow to stop them. So
just take Xx i t easy . -
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