Interview no. 813 - DigitalCommons@UTEP

University of Texas at El Paso
DigitalCommons@UTEP
Combined Interviews
Institute of Oral History
1-28-1994
Interview no. 813
Rosa Kondo Honda
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Recommended Citation
Interview with Rosa Kondo Honda by Victor M. Macías González, 1994, "Interview no. 813," Institute of Oral History, University of
Texas at El Paso.
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gF TEXASAT EL PASO
IJNIVERSITY
INSTITUTEOF ORALHISTORY
EI,.JEE:
INTERVI
:
INTERVIEI,IER
PROJECT:
Rosa Kondo llonda
Victor
M. Macias Gonzilez
World War II
DATE OF INTERVIEW:
January
28,
T E R M SO F U $ E :
Unrestricted
T A P EN O :
813
T R A N S C R I PNTO :
813
TRA|.,ISCRI
BERr
Michelle
L.
L994
Gomilla
:
ETJEE
S 0F INTERVI
CAL S'/l'lCIFSI
BI06RAPHI
American citizen
of Japanese and Mexican ancestry;
born on February 28, 1915
in El Paso, Texas; daughter of a Japanese national/proprietor
of a grocery
store in South El Paso; grew up during the Great Depression;
attended Bowie
High school; married Julio Honda on February 20, 1938, a Japanese citizen
residing
in Cd. Juirez,
Chihuahua, Mexico; lived
i n C d. J n a l r e z u n t i l
early
L942; expelled
from Cd. Jutrez
after bornbing of Pearl Harbor and incarcerated
in Mexico City with other Japanese.
OF INTERVIELJ:
SI,.h4T,IARY
Recalls her experiences as one of the few non-Mexicans enrolled
at Bowie High
School; social acti-vities;
economic conditions
during the Great Depression;
El Paso movie theatersl
evidence of discrimination
against Mexic6ns by Anglos;
reaction
of Japanese conmunity to bornbing of Pearl Harbor; discusses confiscation of her U.S. identification
card by U.S. officials
during an attempt to
cross the international
border to visit
her parents in El Paso; subsequent expulsion
to Mexico City;
Recalls hardships endured while in the Mexican capital;
living
conditions,
lreatment by Mexican officials
of Japanese detainees;
private
Japanese school in Mexico City;
Reflects
on Japanese assimi-lati-on into Mexican
society;
views of the Mexican people.
Length o{ Intenview: I Hour. 20 Min. Length o{ Transcript
46 Pages
fnterview with Rosa Kondo Eonda
By Victor l{. llacias GotziLez
ilanuary 28, 1994
Esta
es una entrevista
enero,
de mil
con 7a sefiora Rosje
novecientos
Good morning.
questions.
biographical
and then
Okay.
teII
descent
to
start
first
Rosa Kondo Honda.
and she came by accident
the
Texas.
with
a couple
of
d9e,
parents.
My mother
to
de
your name, your
about your
bit
veintiocho
paso,
El
you can state
If
us a little
My name is
y cuatro,
noventa
Werd like
Honda, eI
was of Mexican
United
States.
When?
Oh,
it
must
have
grandparentsr
sisters.
been around
So she considered
But,
anlrway, there
grandrnother
And the
and the
She grew
t9O7.
the
was onry
girl-
uncles
you know, they
know what kind
of mines he worked,
either
or gold,
silver
here.
rooking
Not here
[New Mexico].
wanted
states
some rniners
in El Paso but
He was just
to
at
home.
came to
of my mother
worked
but
El
came
in
the
it
was mines-
open up the
went to chihuahua,
that
mines.
mine.
Mexico.
wourd come and work
between Deming and silver
starting
somebody who knew what
mountainstayed.
for
reft
and
or whatever.
And somebody from the united
They were
her
brothers
and my mother-
He was in mining,
r donrt
as
one girl
Paso because the husband of the grandmother
here.
up with
to
to
open up a mine.
dynamiteso r d.onrt
He was my great-grandfather.
city
the
hirl
or
know how long
Anyway, he was killed.
He
the
he
and her grandmother,
And my mother
EI Paso to
the
death
see if
of the
they
grandfather.
much money- but they
they
settlement
that
they
money
and
they
mine.
were
not
going
to
a penny,
to
stay
had
and her
about
9 or
here
daughter,
they
10 years
When they
and
old.
had too
And
were
they
work.
of
found
It
out
out
was
of
the
But my mother
So she was sent
and her
for
some kind
and my mother.
and my great-grandmother
Mexico
recompense
get
to
owners of the
they
of
came to
came to El Paso.
tried
get
aunt,
think
the
grandmother,
in
So I don't
with
and
was only
some kind
had money- and they
some papers
had
get
could
and her
daughter
back
stayed
to
here
EI Paso.
So, afterwards,
or 1907.
That was the way ny mother
States.
Islhe
started
my mother came and I think
to
met
my father
got
and
here
What was your
H:
Maria
M:
And your
father?
H:
His
name was Yashi
motherrs
Bobadillo
in the United
married
and
we all
name?
Kondo.
Henry Kondo.
And my father
same wdyr not because they were in desperate
He just
was i n 1 9 0 8
be born.
M:
real
stayed
it
didntt
rike
the
tradition
came the
need or anything.
or customs of
the
Japanese
people.
He had an older
brother
because
dge, f guess,
brother
even if
he is
and he had to be under
the
father
was there,
supposed to be the
2
boss,
at
his
tal
older
certain
or whatever,
of
the
farnily.
And
discipline
Thatrs
he
and everything.
why he came to
Francisco.
in
thitl
He says
for
everyone
father
didn't
responsible
is
Any ny
the
United
he was there
that
it.
like
He came to
States.
for
and
r,,rhen the
San
earthguake
San Francisco.
1905?
So that
came
must be around that
to
EI
Paso
tuberculosis.
think,
But
dt that
donft
How did
H:
My father
they
clirnate
was
of tuberculosis,
the
dry
climate,
I
of tuberculosis.
hin
to
read
and speak English.
and speak English.
But
of
rny mother
never
So that
Iearned
was one
to
speak
meet?
f guess it
around
waitress.
met.
(chuckles)
was working
El Paso.
sorneplace
they
the
afraid
And...
M:
south
fear
very
was a lot
An1n'ray, he came to
read
hin.
was
why he
[that's]
you know,
and there
know who taught
for
English.
the
tine.
he knew how to
advantage
he
Ibecause]
Japan[ts]
because of the
I
And I think
And he knew that,
very much like
I guess,
was
tirne.
there.
I donrt
And they
got
as a cook in
was [on]
married
in
3rd and E1 Paso [Street]-
And my mother
know what.
a restaurant
But,
was the
dishwasher
anyway,
and I was the
thatrs
or
where
first-born.
I had an older...
M:
Did you have older
H:
I
had an older
born.
My rnother
sisters?
sister....Yes,
had a child
of
everyone I
by another
was the
marriage.
first-
So I was
the
first
store
ny father
said,
one that
without
was the
your
your
face
doing
all
in
the
your
How were
sit
My mother,
housework
of
care
hair,
He was the
and washing
she was so busy
think,
I
six
with
us.
and have breakfast
your
combing
we had the
because
on the table
teeth,
and hands.rr
the
You know,
one who took
rrYou cannot
brushing
father
M:
my father.
one of
and then
kids
helping
my
store.
brothers
and sisters
What were
called?
their
names?
H:
sister
My older
Juana Padillo
two years
is
Santoscoy.
Honda.
I
a
Mexico.
My younger
married
older
Then,
is
And then rny oldest
brother.
The
was Robert
next
Alfredo
brother
another
So your
parents
your
family?
of
met,
they
What did
My great-grandmother
from
am- Kondo
Judrez,
Kondo Flores.
was named Henry Kondo.
Kondo
and
the
other
years
or eleven
one
after
was
there
Reynundo Kondo.
got married.
they
f
Ciudad
named Margarita
narne is
was very
And her name is
Rosa- which
My brother
son and his
I am.
citizen
And then ten years
Kondo.
was born
itrs
Japanese
sister
than
What was the
reaction
think?
opposed to my mother
marrying
a Japanese man.
What did
I
was not
[out]
to
they
a very
things.
read-
book like-
say?
curious
When I
and when I
first
found
what was it?
person,
you
started
out
I
f think
know,
reading-
could
[I
read
was]
in
trying
because
to
find
I
loved
and understand
fourth
or
fifth
a
when I read ny first
[grade]
the Knights
learn
that
from
guess,
H:
got
Paso.
liked
got
year.
Then they
M:
Thatrs
H:
Yes.
M:
What kind
store
a job
late
nines-
to
at
to
thel
And
And f
close
would
father
to my
make me
worked
in
the
City
stayed
is
with
in
E1
a company- I
there
for
about
Thatts
a
when he
[Street].
now?
What were the people
was it?
Did you live
hre didn't
When they
how long-
EI Paso again.
[Park]
took
places.
donrt
Silver
back of
one that
or
f
l-11-9 South Stanton
Chanizal
[in
school
it.
couId.
that
several
and they
Do you rernember?
was the
your
here-
in
of a neighborhood
Yes, we lived
father
stayed
returned
where the
around?
and
married
to
I was more to myself,
read
as a cook in
they
was the
opened the
as. I
and
they...
married
it
Arthur
surprised
because I wasnrt
sister.
to
parents
Then he found
think
H:
I
No, he was working
first
I guess,
people.
or how did
And f was very
as many books
other
the
And when your
store
get
nor to my older
because
of
was King
read the whole book and understand
on f used to
sister
unaware
M:
Round Tab7e.
more to myself,
younger
I
the
f could
then
was left
of
book and it
the
in
store.
that
like
area?
So that's
why my
care
of
us and knew if
we were
get
in
on time
going
home or
whatever.
WeIl,
school
there
I went to,
were i_00 percent
I think,
Mexican
I was the
5
only
people.
one tinl
Even the
the
first
grade,
when I went to high
Jones
names like
Anglo
did
[or]
you go to,
M:
What school
H:
Bowie.
M:
Bowie,
oh.
H:
Bowie,
Bowie High School.
or
forced
SpanishreaIly,
to
Paso.
And,
Mexican
[and]
like
What did
H:
I beg your
M:
What did
H:
My father
with
the
time,
used
to
farnily
100 percent
take
very
us
take
us,
[out]
of
South
people
the
El
were
we all
in
the
brightly.
And he always
that
in
order
who....Because
or whatever,
not
He always
to
[of]
us riding
the
we were
the
where
thought
afraid
We had, you know, all
had friends,
car.
you know, near the mountains
And on Sundays they took
[friends]
Ouring
Sunday.
which he was very
tuberculosis-
other
every
us riding
have enough sunshine
I guess.
two
in
fun?
And he took
and we had picnics.
or
was unnecessdrY,
pardon?
the sun was shining
we had to
So it
fun?
you do for
had a car.
spoke
So everyone
English.
Spanish-speaking.
months he would
winter
today-
like
well,
because we were living
said,
I
you do for
M:
speak
speak English
with
fstudents]
EI Paso tHighl?
what we spoke at home.
thatrs
But
Wilson.
And we were not-
to
encouraged
were several
there
school
those.
and all
L6pez, Martlnez,
name besides
had another
one that
only
And f was the
was the Aoy School.
which
in
family
such
and there
get
that
sick
all
the
the
car
and one
a large
was always
persons
two or three
with
was just
Thatrs
Your parents,
H:
Yes,
M:
In that
the
H:
looking?
were there.
were the Japanese parents
respect,
said,
ily
father
rules
and we went by what he said,
I
So you were
a
growing
to
go
cents.
fifty
Thatrs
the
to
or
the
by what ny
wasnrt
high
school.
to
So they
a lot
of
kids
class
enough peopleThey just
was in
sometimes
L93o from
boys and girls-
had to quit
and
on it
go to
Bowie
because they
they
couldnrt
or
school.
think
going
was
cents
twenty-five
have a high school untiI....I
And
cents
twenty-five
didntt
eY
go.
couldnrt
Then later
So,
eat
or a coat,
of shoes,
have the
graduating
go to
my age who couldn't
supplies.
school
What
Depression.
any changes?
have a pair
school.
the
didnrt
cents.
there
anything
Paso in
But they
why we didnft
first
all
by Japanese tradition
you know, they used to ask us for
grammar school
fifty
El
Did you notice
like?
because they didnrt
sornetimes,
the
up in
There were a 1ot of kids
sweater
in
from
or whatever.
customs,
school
(chuckles)
not
say we were raised
So Itll
said.
put
one that
was the
like
Oh, yes.
any different
parents?
Mexican
were conditions
H:
always
Well,
or
M:
hrere they
yes they
mother
horne
games.
and playing
and dancing,
radio,
at
it.
about
M:
the
parties
w€ had two or three
When we €trehr older,
which
us.
that
because
to school
didnrt
send
in
have
their
children
f
without
principal
a
knew
lot
kids
of
but
he would
for
three
us a very
sell
pennies
out
have a cafeteria,
missed
in the
around there
food.
afford
was sa-l.chich6n (bologna)
M:
TeIl
high
school
reason.
I
never
I
it
thought
know why I think
there
have dates
would
and the
without
any
it-
beans and a bun
were not
they
least,
and we didnrt
r think
late.
everyone,
for
I
even my father.
We never
We even had a turkey.
when the
of
rest
[to buy one].
let
is
with
aII
people
the
What they
ate most
they could
afford.
How did
dating.
other
girls.
I wasntt
you
movies
I said,
for
boys
what
I
in
interested
thought.
permit
sister
there
I
who
But we
me.
on Sunday once
My younger
and I
But anyway,
But boys around
wouldnrt
in
whatever
Japanese
attractive.
because my parents
be there.
the
Thatrs
was a boy very
the
Like
true.
I was part
from school.
us go to
boys would
but it
was because
from the
were working-
they
school
cafeteria.
popular
was not
had a boyfrj-end
didnrt
our
until
because thatrs
want to say it
was different
I donrt
because
husband?
I donrt
WeII,
school
know how he got
about when you started
me a Iittle
meet your
the
on Thanksgiving
couldnrt
And
something
pIace,
first
hard time
lacked
a turkey
at
wdy,
We were paying
was a very
we never
[But]
to
school.
good bowl of chile
was a sophornore when we got
So it
went
because that
food.
the
hiqh
in
was- I dontt
So, what he did
breakfast.
giving
when we were
that
realized
go to
So they didntt
anything.
But
it.
in
awhile
was the
one
that
arranged
everything.
Sunday we were going
around
the
dating
we had.
whatever,
with
the
boys
the
go with
us to
be ready
rnovies.
his
that
That
was
Japanese,
boys.
Mexican
[or]
But
he
those boysrrl
anything.
was much older
the thing
Iove
than we were-
was that
him,
or
like
that,
because all
have
somebody to
thought
for
him,
the
or
going to...because
with.
(chuckles)
thinking
about
thought,
States
that
with
according
f
or three
was just
something
just
wanted to
I
him and so he arranged
hin
in
twice
on I
that
I didnrt
could
a Japanese
come into
I
wasnrt
in Mexico.
know what I
the
United
rny husband because I was an American citizen.
to
what
times
rrTherers
I
to the
law
no
States.rr
thought
And I didn't
a tradition
told
knew,
that
thought
that
had to
that
in the United
consulate
But they
I
I
just
get
husband
left
I
could
States.
in Ju6rez
your
But
An)rway, my father
in Mexico.
rnaybe later
in me.
place he was living
in the first
from my husband and live
United
Thatts
want to go and live
f didnrt
It
had boyfriends,
want to.
didn't
was a man- he
there
he was married.
anything.
girls
go out
old
and he was interested
me to marry my husband.
I
years
I heard that
I was seriously
family.
I
us to
guess my father,
I
But rrhen I was twenty-two
r€r
tell
you knowr sdy rrl donrt want you to invite
didntt,
or
walk
want
didntt
would
to the movies and the boys would
and would
there
They
get
And
papers
But I went two
and they
never
told
come into
the
me, you know, hanging,
and
some papers
could
or
something
else.
r€,
ttWhy are
really,
because
the
to
What year
H:
I beg your
M:
What year?
H:
t-938.
M:
Let
the
United
M:
Ah,
H:
Eureka,
your
get
has said
never
husband
that
told
across
no Japanese
States?r'
was this?
theatres
No, no,
and they
there
to
Department
pardon?
me ask you a question
H:
over
you trying
Inmigration
can immigrate
M:
times
two or three
And I went
did
you go to?
about
What movie
theatres.
Alhambra?
What was the
no.
movie
narne?
Bureka?
Eureka!
yes!
And what
was the
one?
other
The
Palace,
I
think.
M:
The Pa1ace...
H:
And the
M:
Texas Grand Theater.
Yes,
Texas.
Oh yes,
No.
the name of that
forgot
one...
Texas Grand Theater.
Were the
Did
I
movies
in
they
English
in
discriminated
considered
in
Spanish?
English.
say no Mexicans
I think
or
that
can come in
the Mexicans
at
Iagainst]
because
me a Mexican
so I could
that
we
or anything
time
never
go
could
go anywhere
l-ike
that?
were really
in.
They
and nobody told
us anything.
There was one tine
when I was working.
I was working
at,
M:
The Caple's
H:
That
it?
only
and she progressed
there
handy girl
a higher
to
or whatever.
I took
because they
sent everything
there
the
back
like
mostly
[tests]
took
reports
because
specirnens
doctors
the
did
they
I got married.
until
there
to
started
and my sister
laboratory
medical
ttDo you want to go and work there?rr
said,
anywayt
Wellr
Building?
was the
working
name of
next to Kressrs...
was the building
it
I
name was, rr.rhat r,'ras the
the
I think
research
job.
And she
So I went.
It
the results
of the
for
analysis.
and
I
on that.
was
And
would
bring
So I
worked
Before I worked at J.c.
Penney[ rs]
as a clerk.
M:
of
A lot
the
old
were working
exil.iados
those
in
department
stores.
H:
You know, when I was in high
Yes.
us a very
told
secretary
jobs
to
WeII,
tdol.
and
open.rr
Well,
I started
because my hands are very
I
just
sister,
left
it
and
she took
knew that.
I
dictation
So
what
never
It
shorthand.
and typing.
she worked
are
there
no
know what she wanted us
and rny fingers
took
rrDonrt you
was hard for
are
So
short.
my older
But
So she rnore or
she didntt
me
have to
less
type
or
or anything.
happened
discriminating
because
I dontt
short
said,
tslhe
typing
teachers
one of the
to take typing.
shorthand
But where
get
thing.
discouraging
shorthand
taking
start
school
at
against
the
you?
Kress
Building
where
they
were
beg your
pardon?
H:
I
M:
You said
H:
Oh, I forgot.
I
that
felt,
people
say those
you want to
you want to....I
with
working
floor
of the building.
There
was a boy,
when we were
with
people
colored
guess
f tn
so I cannot
thinking,
So, I
you up.
the
by
the
going
not
donrt
us later
people
colored
was
opened the
ttltm
What he told
take
us there
the
to go out but
So
elevator.
boy
woman said,
elevator.
the
take
to
elevator.rr
that
there.
ftWell,
her,
know, I
boy took
us
tras that
he
you tre
way
You have to walk
the
[up]
rl
stairs.
(laughter)
iQu6 bien!
you
But,
in
for
as soon as the
we were going
she thought
up and she stayed
told
And then
in.
third
and he was on the
elevator
just
or
nothinlt
know what.
who managed the
the
And so,
w€ went
door,
youtre
like
donrt
a doctor
or whatever,
for
so bad when
feels
And we were waiting
waiting
lady.
another
you feel
that
things
cry,
We were
know, it
know....You
donrt
I
tine
and the only
time
That was the first
Yes.
you.
against
were discriminating
they
know,
almost cried
Iittle
and I was....You
something
insulting
considered
but
I
donrt
you
and
to be....In
not
from the
makes you
it
people.
know....And
south[ern
United
to
because
the Mexicans,
she thought
she was an Anglo.
States]
L2
nothing.
yourre
like
hide
place,
If
yourre
like
get to feel
want
the first
colored
feel
sorneplace.
I
I
fonly
itts
they
a]
very
are
I was Mexican,
guess she came
M:
Toca!
iGringa
WeIl,
go back to
letrs
when you got
1938 to
rnarried.
H:
I got rnarried
M:
In
H:
In
the
Catholic
Although
for
into
really
into
convert
for
lessons
Christianity
about
or
or
two
a
Catholic.
but f wanted to please
religion,
the sagrada
so I went through
was
ilY mother
Yes,
Church.
f wasntt
my rnother
had to
Church?
Catholic
the
20, 1938.
on February
and my husband
coraz6n
He went
Catholic[isn].
weeks
three
before
we
got
married.
M:
me ask you a litt1e
Let
was Japanese-Mexican.
H:
about your
bit
You said
he
Where was he from?
He was a Japanese from Japan.
in
husband.
He had come to Mexico,
f think,
L925.
What was he working
What was he doing?
with?
[He owned] a grocery
store.
In Judrez?
In JuSrez.
What was the
Alianza.
r
name of
donrt
it?
know if
the
Victoria
is
still
there-
the
movie.
Si,
sl,
corner
It
the
of
diez
was across
time.
On [the]
[Cine]
There
y seis
Victoria
de septiembre
the Victoria
raras another
L6th of
[movie
but
store
it
there.
located
and Francisco
wasntt
September [Street]?
1_3
theater
on the
Maderol.
the Victoria
at that
In
Madero [Street].
[Francisco]
jewelry
an old
Therers
there.
[store]
Yes.
just
you sel1,
And what did
groceries?
Groceries.
you got
And after
yes.
with
trouble
in
did
United
States.
in
fanily
lived
time,
Jnlrez
a lot
of things
the
p]ace,
first
small
all
groceries,
their
and
had to
clothes,
their
my
that
at
know,
So everybody
come from Mexico.
didntt
AII
was no roads
and there
city
me
I was born
citizen.
And you
states.
united
was a very
depend on El Paso for
In the
let
couldnrt
they
me- that
the
Thatrs
Mexico.
tinl
was an American
I
States.
United
the
live
with
what they
the
come into
go to
had to
I
weII,
there?
live
you went to
married
and
everything.
When the
it
but
was true,
that
saying
that
want
Japanese.
we couldn't
the
Mexican
sell
Alt
because they
the
it
because
left
because
and everything,
and everYthing.
Did you have difficulty
gettinq
74
supplies
the
was worthless
customers
living
they
with
depended so much on the
aI1 their
were
store,
away because
do any business
to
we had stayed,
anything.
on El Paso- for
and clothing
people
be taken
they
a Japanese
into
who went
think
dontt
because
our customers
would
card
So, even if
were afraid,
States-
any person
crossing
their
didntt
they
tifl
a1I
we lost
I
was a rumor.
there
War started
to
sell?
United
food
H:
January
for
Explain
H:
After
and they
And they
M:
Sort
H:
Yes.
of
couple
their
had a child
about
a year
year
of the
that,
eight
to
were having
they
thought
The Americans
was all
were about
there
child.
eating
had....Just
The party
was.
I think
married
or another.
sornething
spying?
the
house and got
the
ten
men in-
Guarnici6n
thern, there
to
who were with
soldiers
in
the
were one or
Lwo American
soldiers
who went to
Mexican
other
and searched
aII
the
house and detained
know what you call
I donrt
it
in
English-
la
de 1a Plaza.
M:
La Guarnici6n
H:
So they
took
de la Plaza.
them there
and they
stayed
there
for
about
two or
weeks.
M:
Detained?
H:
Yes, they were detaj-ned.
wasnrt
it
got
the
brought
and they
That was all
of
Most
they
But
a few people
So, according
three
three
And this
ten men- in one house.
for
or
married.
were concentrated-
a meeting
two
the first
invited
they
Paso.
wanted to celebrate
Japanese food.
but
El
got
when I
Japan.
from
wives
old
time
go to
but
bachelors
men htere
the
around
couldntt
War ended I
the
rnore detail'
bit
Give ne a little
that.
Japanese
week- we left
the last
tinl
Judrez
City.
Mexico
M:
On March-
February.
[and]
in
We stayed
December.
was in
War it
the
After
No.
there
so I
didntt
I donrt
know what because
know.
And we couldnrt,
J.5
my husband
you know,
were
Americans
us.
watctring
and...
So we didnrt
M:
the
that
afraid
we were
because
phone one another
but we didnrt
We had telephones
telephone.
came and took
when people
So you were at the party
men
the
all
away?
H:
Yes,
M:
What about
H:
No,
the
men and they
the
all
and took
What haPPened?
women?
And then
women htere 1eft.
the
people
Japanese
were-
ancestry,
I donrt
rumors,
that
and
towns
border
really
believe
Japanese store
or anything.
just
people
the
that
When they
General
at the
inmigraci6n
the
United
leave
JuSrez,
everyone
has to
will
the
have to
like
know,
they
believe
of
charge
a
to
went
Itrs
that.
and
rumors
heard
were
So I went
leave.
[office]
and I talked
towns?tt
1eave.
leave. rl
16
He said,
Everyone with
we are
to
the
to hirn and I
but I canrt
know if
they
retained-
have to
But I want to
border
if
see
and they
Irm an American citizen
States.
you
whoever was in
men- and they
we a1I
that
but
Supposed to move from
But
to
the
pay too much attention.
those
saying
rrl,isten,
afraid
took
started
said,
people,
But I didntt
were
So I didntt
everything.
that
on everyone
be spying
would
Japanese
coastline.
the
all
that
of Japanese-
anyone who had an ancestry
the
not
really
we heard
But by runors
know what was happening.
-..You
well.
decided,
I
get the paper so I didntt
I didntt
know, rumors start.
everything-
searched
go back to
supposed
to
ttYes, eventually
Japanese
ancestry
ralasnI t
Mexico
at
war
was from the
happening
So -I
but
I stay
even if
wasntt
have to leave.
I
I
A11 by myself
stay
in
husband because after[wards]
the
Japanese men who were detained-
hand on my
see about
Irll
of stupid
(chuckles)-
right
I can stay?
So why should
Paso.
He put his
knew I was young and kind
I knew that
was
whatever
so
And you know he said,
this].
[like
ttOh, you donrt
leg and he said,
time
that
States.
United
rrWel1-rr and f was sitting
you.'r
at
sense
in that
rrWhy should
said,
I can go back to
EI
left
my
Judrez?rr
So I
detaineeswere told,
with
eight
the
rrwerll
or ten
give
you a
week. rl
What the Mexican government
ttRio
dicen,
government
knew
soon as the
you eight
men put
sjn
[t]he[y]
could
or
M:
The party
H:
No.
M:
When was the
H:
I
think
something
yourre
in eight
So
the
Mexican
make money you
itrs
the
ttW€'ll
were told,
going
to
So just
do
know.
So as
employee.
days you have to
was on December 6th or
it
mar.rr
days you have to go.
whatever
and....But
wanted was money. Como
up the money they
days and in eight
business
business
with
leave.rr
give
put
your
So...
7th?
party?
was at
around
So you had to
We left
that
pescador
not the Mexican government,
[Itts]
your
revuelto
really
first
week of
March or
second
week,
there.
leave
by Apri1.
the
by April?
And I
remember that
1-7
it
was April
because
when we went to
Mexico....And,
wanted to send us to E1 Perote
Veracruz.
Japan.
[a jail
governmentl
They
had
ambassador
an
and
the
they
in the port
fortress
but because Mexico was not
guess he kind
Mexico...I
you before,
told
P.O.W. ts were kept
The German and ftal-ian
the Mexican
f
like
there
by
in war with
from
ambassador
of helped us so that
of
we wouldnrt
be
sent to the...
M:
Perote.
H:
Perote.
They just
wanted to
concentrate
us
in
tal
certain
pIace.
End of
Beginning
M:
The question
Tape One, Side A
of Tape One, Bide B
I have is did all
the Japanese from Ju6rez leave
at the same tine?
H:
No.
They didn't.
There
were
about
rt
was just
eight
or
ten
about maybe thirty
couples
and the
peopre.
rest
were
bachelors.
M:
Did they
H:
Yes.
Maybe that
charge
of us over all
not
find
take
the
children
was an arrangernent
supposed to take
out
whatever
where to
we had.
away, really,
also?
by whoever
the Japanese that
anything
leave
our
except
few
were leaving.
our crothes,
[pieces
Everybody sord the[ir]
because we wanted to
J_8
was taking
leave
of]
so we had to
furniture
stores.
and the
we were
[or]
They gave it
only
people
who wanted
to
buy it-
they
knew they
just
sold
whatever
us and everybody
they
And did
you first
take
to
could
they
take
advantage
of
get.
could
[Cd. ] Chihuahua and then...
No.
Directly?
No, we went directly.
At that
tirne
it
took
two days.
En tren?
En tren.
And we went on second-c1ass.
give
Did they
No.
you food?
(chuckles)
were telling
people
The Mexican
government
or
employees
but we had to pay a certain
us to leave
amount to
leave.
Do you remember?
M:
How much?
H:
Seventy-five
pesos for
M:
Thatrs
of money then.
H:
One thing
time
a lot
that
I
that
where they
American
I want to make straight
you that
told
thought
with
I guess,
who didntt
want
the
the meeting
soldiers
officially,
each one of us.
us
is
that
it
on the
first
house
soldiers
went
into
was being
held,
there
were two
So that
made it
the Mexican soldiers.
that
when the
was the United
border
town
States
and not
the
government
the
Mexican
government.
M:
Who was giving
orders
H:
I donrt
I never asked.
M:
Did
H:
No, they
they
know.
look
to whom?
American?
knew they
Did they
were American
1_9
have American
uniforms.
uniforms?
M:
They were green...
H:
Because soldiers...
M:
So they
gave you eight
things
H:
No.
and they
you to
Everybody was on his
neither
the
expect
M:
took
days
government
anything.
When the
day
leave.
the
train
Everyone
together,
sold
of Mexico.
They never
came did
people
help
us-
do so we didntt
government
American
their
or how?
The government didntt
own.
But the
eighth
to
didntt
either.
come knocking
your
to
door?
H:
No.
We went voluntarily.
the General
Looking
On the
Like
and he said,
back,
I think
eighth
I
said,
rrEventually,
that
was the
day everyone,
I went and talked
to
everyone has to go out. rl
best
a1I thirty
thing
that
we did.
of you...
peopIe...
About thirty
Together?
Together,
Went to
Yes.
and there...
the
train?
And there
Looking
at
were soldiers
in the train,
Mexican...
you?
Yes.
Guarding
you?
Guarding
you.
But they
didnrt
push you on the train...
No, but they were guarding
we got
M:
off
So you got
the
train,
on the
train
us,
I guess,
at
the
20
just
seeing where we left
or if
or whatever.
station.
you had to
pay
for
your
own food?
Yes.
pay for
You had to
your
own ticket?
Yes.
You had certain
because you had to spend a lot
costs
of money.
Yes.
And then
two days you arrived
[in]
in Mexico?
Yes.
What happened
WeII,
in
those
you know,
United
like
States.
Mexican-
was the
my father
too?
The middle
the
of
rniddle
offices.
you
He was,
about.
to
They told
of
the
know,
had
he
f
cross-
Iooked
tried
us to meet at
where they
did?
the
to
she
just
the
to
say
see my father
And [to]
bridge.
was some kind
watching
us to
And any
to
see
understand
that
they
Japanese.
They
didntt
what
didnrt
want
I was Japanese.
21
see what
it
of
me to
and my son and I
me
So
just
cross
official.
we were
English
paper
was.
want
inmigration
of government
speak in
kind
had the
was there
My father
And we were supposed to
through
in
tirne she crossed,
leave
bridge-
And there
[us].
could
and raised
bridge?
the
understand
because
was born
Do you know what they
And we met.
were there.
I
only
When we decided
and say goodbye.
In
said,
I
Because my mother
and that
goodbye.
two days?
that
that
talking
so he could
was
passed
gave
me to
because
the
border
I
\das
just
grehr up
I
thinking
know, during
tell-
us the
First
from
now on we were not going
peace
horrified
or
was,
And
the
other
that
and here
sell
supplying
infornation
was
thinking
Let
donrt
Well,
the
something
going
the
of
were people
selling
get
[that]
made r or
thingsjust
knew most
oF to
was
Depression
else
l-ife
that
as much
neither
of
really
that
them
to,
information
to
interested
in
everybody
were trying
What happened
in
in
their
so hard
just
was
and not Japan or anything.
so they
of
had no desire
give
I
anything.
said,
they
So
be any war,
suffer
f
was
I
things.
worst
Like
I
of the
They were so busy raising
anyone
to
They
do that.
those
two days
train?
have food.
to
to
War or
the
because
me ask you a question.
f was going
But that
to Japan because we had to work
a better
we didnrt
of
I guess,
think
when you were on the
H:
knew-
books
remember.
hrars and those
ones.
El Paso.
during
about
had come for
guilty
something,
I
it
one
and everything
Japan.
and
donrt
was not
war,
the history
the League of Nations
any fear
the
f
in
and working
you know,
that
that's
any
terrible.
in a war are the ones that
ones,
Japanese
Ju6rez
kids
know,
people
innocent
as the
without
you
the
there
[said]
you know,
f
about
the pact
be
to have any wars because
sornething.
read
when I read about
that
wouldnrt
War [V{WI] was something
when I
whatever,
there
your school years,
that....You
KeIIogg
M:
that
sick
I thought
that
because when the
things
if
train
I ate
stopped
and they were not very
22
something
there
sanitary,
I
guess,
and- neither
people
M:
How did
H:
You know,
left
rny boy-
hirn anything.
you?
treat
the Mexican
there
give
I didntt
people
were a lot
had nothing
of people
there
to
against
us.
When we
us goodbye and
tell
good luck.
M:
people
How did
No.
Well,
everyone,
the
cross.
take
community?
was the
really
didntt
had
a crossing
crossing
what the Americans
right
They were
know.
card-
so they
that
the
in Mexico City
say
it
was
realized
and rvhat
thought
were
they
that
They needed that
American
that
it
was
card
to
government
would
embassy.
They had reserved
ones.
stayed
what happened?
Were there
there?
There were some people waiting
lucky
they
They
card-
were doing.
afraid
And when you arrived
Yes.
Did
away.
it
officials
H:
they
mostly,
protecting
M:
in
good?
bad [or]
H:
react
in
a hotel
We had a litt1e
a hotel
for
for
us,
I guess from the
for
us.
But we were the
more money than
about
eight
days
the
rest,
and we had
so we
to
pay
everything.
you had to
M:
oh,
H:
Yes.
M:
Not the
H:
No.
M!
Okay.
you?
pay everything?
Japanese
And what
What did
government?
happened
the
in
those
Japanese officials
23
days?
say?
What did
they
teII
H:
we had no contact
with
know,
way the
with
put
thatrs
the
a little
the
it's
Who was your
H:
There
than
leader
anyone else
there
to
H:
They decided
like
apartrnent
after
and they
person
that
about
that.
Like
a vecindad
all
says,
by
chairs.
And that's
all
the
apartments
apartment.
room there
other
so, for
decided
were going
they
all
bachelors
where
I
group
that
the
give
built
was Iiving
rent
and the
food
and
We
was
some
They rented
about
that
tirne
one of them and another
kitchen
an
we went.
had.
living
at
and
hippies
a table
was very convenient
24
to
that
[meals].
were
And we had the
me, it
qo and pay
to get our food from restaurants
And I took
one.
out?
we couldnrt
where we had our
were two bedrooms.
somebody was
go and everything
money ran
women and they
But
guess,
say in
last
from our own money.
together-
and the
had the
us where to
we were supposed to
prepared
He had more money
f
comitnr or whatever
[or]
giave whatever
we,
a week that
So they
and live
a vecindad?
the
there
told
fto.
one that
when your
and having
Like
Raul
and he was the
pay everything
a] hotel
things
took
or whatever,
and whatever
name of
you survive
And how did
each
someone
group?
the
rneet us and they
M:
three
They trust
schooling
So when we got
we had to
[for
of
was a man by the
everything.
all
Japanese are.
person
on that
was somebody erse r^rho....you
official.
M:
but
rt
I guess,
more,
trust
thern.
and the
ten
in
there
couple
dining
because I didntt
have to go upstairs
wasnrt
very
everyday
trijoles,
bread,
and coffee.
wanted
something
rich
children.
weII,
was the
breakfast
I didntt
tine
breakfast
sweet
who
and anybody
it
or brJ-ng it
or
beans were so
the
in...
M:
Protein.
H:
Protein.
we had
So we always
to
thing.
-the
boil
the
thingr that
milk
to take
And it
an
had
because
we were
hospitals
were
it
another
here,
I
to
find
and I
to
in
knew
where
[for]
that
he had
nilk
The doctor
United
to
go
less
didnrt
than
a year-
know anyone.
So,
someone who, according
after
and
25
where
to
the
Mexj-co-
he had to
have
We didnrt
know
about
[on]
He
But
States.
a week
to what everybody
he was operated
weak.
child.
But when we went
nehr there.
was a good doctor....And
States
a healthy
the
was
And so that
He was very
live.
here
and everything.
We were
same
nilk.
he wasntt
must have been about
anyone.
trying
operation
operation
was the
that
JuSrez
weak when he was born.
Anln^ray, when we left,
already
And
was a special
going
he wasntt
that
my son and rnilk.
I needed to corne to the United
because he was very
was saying
eggs for
And in
rnilk.
my son.
for
bought
have pasteurized
We didn't
another
oh,
know that
he
and
bread-
would have to pay for
else
At that
What we had for
a boIiTToThat
my child,
like
But
I guess and...
healthy
was
whatever.
the
except
everyone
amount everyday
certain
[a]
was
Everything
or anything.
We were supposed to pay
there.
for
or downstairs
[of]
said,
in Mexico City.
was a very
So that
spending
without
from
that
something
Iike
because
the
and
f
never
and
doctor
would
we were
here
to have those
was
It
everything.
it
that
have inagined
bills
would
be
was four
or
that.
after
But
five
months
living
living
looking
We have to
thern there
call
name right
bought
but
it
they
room that
rrWedonrt
my husband,
a litt1e
for
didnrt
it
whatever
or little
gave us was on the
What they
for
outside
remember
canrt
I
a little
have any place
to go on
So we started
store.
but....Well,
was
titl
have money just
Anlnnray, we found
now.
they
stores
not
I think
do something.tt
changarrito-
is
oh,
same conmune or
the
in
this.
like
about,
for
staying
I told
called,
the
us
for
our own money and having
hospital
the
time
hard
and we
store
us to
and
live.
The
just
it
had
They had no sanitary...
water.
Facilities.
So we had to go out and go into
a....They
ure had to open to go to the bathroom.
or
five
four
place
and we moved to
room and a kitchen
So that's
the
So we stayed
Then my husband
months.
about
place
other
how we went through
and at
and the place
and a bathroom
all
those
door that
had a big
four
there
another
found
least
for
years
only
it
the
had a
store.
that
the
War was on.
And what happened?
anything
H:
No.
from
the
Did you hear anything
Japanese
On June the 25th,
from the government,
embassy?
I think,
26
or 24th,
Mexico declared
war.
So the
with
M:
like
Something
permission.
guess,
(chuckles)
M:
about
(chuckles)
they
were
And
in
were
mordida'so
it
city
without
any
without
Well'
States-
f
didnrt
f
was
I was the one that
United
the
the
us permission.
was one thing.
was raised
f
give
wouldn't
of
changatrito
open a litt1e
there
workingr.
was what
own.
You, yourselves,
go out
We couldntt
that.
and they
the
were connected
that
jail.
We couldntt
permission
jail.
had your own little
of your
charge
on our
So we were left
ernbassy.
So you almost
in
H:
the
and a1I the people
left
ambassador
think
to me that
never occurred
wanted.
there
Did
things?
anti-Japanese
any
they
do
War.
It
anything?
Mexico declared
Not even after
H:
No.
M:
Why do you think
H:
I think
with
didn't
I guess,
something that,
States-
United
the
do anything?
really
Mexico wasnrt
that
was just
they
war.
that's
interested
It]he[y]
all.
in
the
wanted to cooperate
So thatrs
why ttlhetyl
war.
declared
How do you
think
they
took
the
and the
Italians
Germans to
Perote?
Like
f said,
didnrt
because there
was an ambassador.
Thatrs
why they
send thern.
Not even after
the
Not
even,
Not after
no.
I
Do.
think,
you
War?
know,
Mexico
declared
when Japan
27
war against
went
to
attack
Japan,
Pear1
Harbor,
the
Germany and the
English
I
they
found
Mexico
they
detained
something,
City.
donrt
In the city
limits
detained
M:
Were there
people
H:
No, I donrt
M:
What
fighting
Germans.
with
So thatts
They were afraid.
know.
But
Maybe
we were
left
in
to go anyplace.
we were free
or anything.
you at
watching
think.so,
you
already
the
then.
I
We werentt
did
had gone with
and they
guess,
why,
were
Italians
I dontt
do together
times?
think
as
so.
Did
you
for
parties
a community?
do
any
parties?
H:
No.
M:
It
H:
No,
was...
It
no parties?
was sad times,
at
that
anything.
time,
it
The only
Japanese
wasnrt
thing
that
were concentrated
of weddings.
appropriate
happened was-
into
Boys net girls
Mexico
and they started
there
all
the
were a lot
getting
married.
groups?
M:
So there
were other
H:
Oh, y€s,
yes.
M:
How rnany do you think
there
H:
At least
from outside
hundred
City-
because
or
one hundred-
were?
Mexico City.
At
least
one
people.
M:
So you think
H:
Japanese.
M:
And what happened to the children?
H:
My son was three
years
before
So, at first,
we left.
there
were five
old.
hundred
Japanese?
Were they
He was three
28
I was not
going
years
to school?
about
interested
in
a month
trying
to
find
about
to
out where tal
five.
So everybody
send their
M:
You set
H:
Yes.
M:
Oh, it
H:
But when all
children
was already
to
or whatever,
saying
that
until
he was
were going
they
a Japanese school.
the people
was very
pick
work
around
where
home.
And most of the
because
And then
for]
tine
at
he went to
the
and he had to
have a
him back.
the
last
bus
But
lived
one to
it
near
be taken
9:30
p.m.
or
not going to workrfr because
back of
to eat.
the
bus and he hadntt
So, I said,
rrNo. rr
had
So he went
two months.
a Mexican
private
Yes, to a little
of more pupils.
he came home around
ttNo, itrs
said,
about
man who drove
and he was the
or anything
school
were a lot
hirn up and take
the
we lived
be asleep
any supper
came there
from where we lived
The bus would
he would
there.
rrJr1l send my son to the Japanese school.rf
far
10:00 p.m. and I
established
there.
didntt
[to
started
was [a school]
So, rrWellrrr I said,
bus.
[was],
up a Japanese school?
There already
And it
school
school
school?
that
was not too
far
away from
where we lived.
M:
And there
H:
No.
M:
He was fine?
H:
No.
The only
teacher
Paso-
was no trouble
thing
was very
that
strict.
when we came back
with
your
son?
he cornplained
And you
from
29
the
[about]
was that
know when he came to
War-
he
already
the
EI
knew the
nultiplication
And
he
table
knew
[Elementary
pushed
was
how
up to six
to
five
The Mexican
H:
WeII,
up
third
grade
those
things-
to
they
schools
taught
States
them a 1ot
they
United
school.
donrt.
States.
of
went
the
that
they
But he
year
first
went about
four
school.
was a very
things
Aoy
more advanced.
bit
It
old.
to
grade.
and he just
You know,
In Mexico,
He
inrnediately
in the Mexican
years
six
in the first
were a little
was a private
it
Spanish.
and he started
months in Mexico
M:
in
School]
because he knew all
or
read
and he was only
I
small
guess
they
the
in
go very
when you start,
school
slowly
start
but
United
in
the
teaching
you everything.
M:
What do you remember?
Did he say anything
Japanese
school,
the
anything
that
culture
Mexican
was
particular?
they
do?
school?
Did
they
from
the
Did
you remember
do
any
Japanese
classes?
Oh, y€s,
Okay,
yes.
what
f donrt
did
know- I think
very
sad.
died
and they
donrt
from
different
He said,
he was four-
but he came [home] one day
rrYou knoru what?
had a funeral
The son of
and we were
know what he was supposed to do.
Japanese.
He started
you know, he called
to
his
Which means?
He called
Thatrs
in...
father
bow like
father
his
the
supposed
He started
teacher
to. . . . rrf
to count
Japanese people.
oka-san.
father
the
oka-san?
in
And,
M:
In Japanese?
H:
fn Japanese.
M:
Oh,
good.
itrs
something.
Japanese
I
thought
Itrs
looking
cultural
things?
y€s.
fine.
H:
WelI,
M:
This
teats
H:
Itrs
supposed to be good.
very
good for
M:
Oh, it
H:
Therers
M:
I thought
H:
No.
M:
Okay,
M:
It
stopping
So he was learning
You know, he was in kindergarten
or
a lot
of
green tea
is
so....
good.
very
sornething
a littl-e
it
you read that
Haventt
or another?
something other
was my cookie
so there
was a lot
children
That
has tea
and rice.
than...
had fallen
[that]
(Iaughter
into...
of Japanese culture
that
being
eI
dicho.
lejos
Porfirio
Mexico.
to
do anything
to
you
lived
(laughter)
said that.
was that
I
de I'I6xico. . .tl
tan cerca de los
Let me see,
when, you know,
when I
care.
were going
they
. .ttPobre
de Dios,
fDiaz]
The thing
if
didnrt
remarks)
Como dice
ff ...Tan
like
Did anyone say
wrong or...
The Mexican government
was almost
was popular
that
you were in Mexico City.
while
about
(inaudible
for
was
has both.
anything
No.
machine
(Iaughter)
with
H:
the
Estados Unidostr.
Yes, thatrs
Don
unfortunate
do you have any questions?
found out
I was living
I wasnrt
here
in Mexico City,
in the
interested
United
I found out that
31
it
in
States.
Mexico
But
had culture,
it
was very
different
pretty
very
there
at that
was the
loved
from where r had rived.
ord
tirne.
buildings
everything
circumstances
about
that
recorlections.
r loved
I
and the
it.
Japanese
all
[of]
people.
in
old
that
Anything
the Japanese people
that
f
under
the
good
had very
r miss
is
the
happens
to
one of
get together
just
and r
know,
City,
was
you know,
churches
you
Mexico
things
city
when r went.
And,
lived
one of the
the
it
Mexico
and try
unity
of
them,
to help
one
way or another.
You know, in Mexico City
for
the
store.
car.
So rny husband,
(cigarettes).
cigarros
And I didnrt
did
was to
that
took
what
calr
was-
of
very
everything
to
The
took
gave the
aid
the
anybody
gets
Japanese
and, you know, anything
Japanesesick
or woman who is
because
of
one
in the
after
were
itrs
things
pick
to
up some
The first
have to
hit
worry
or
why they
are
would
go
could
feel
so
one
about
for
whatever
and everything.
they
they
paid
hirn
a clinic-
they
thing
And he was the
who
there
by a
it
So I
something
together.
around
give
Those are the
the
other
to help
things
If
a man
that
r
was the same way here in El paso but
it
though,
them
hospitar.
missed because....and
War there
boy
and that's
against
certain
way home he was hit
late.
hirn to
first
have to do anything
the
went
so r didnrt
do.
And they
and they
didnrt
And on the
know until
going
everything.
one day,
one of the Japanese men.
care
am I
we had to go for
very
the same thing.
few
Japanese.
About 80 percent
32
In
Ju5.rez,
of the Japanese
stayed
in
M:
They stayed
H:
Yes.
M:
Not very
H:
No.
that
[for]
everything
government-
said,
or
land
was virgin.
they
gave
all
could
get
said,
ttW€ did
reaIly
forced
and they
writing
all
going
through
the
sent
clear
a kind
of
right
time
thing.
leave.
nonths
tt
Chihuahua.
The
Do you know
to
had to
So,
Those people,
aI1
the
was an isolated
live
live
working
for
really,
hardships
they
without
little
So, looking
tinl
there
anlrway,
Because we left
they
back,
I
before
they
they
were
they
were
place.
sierra?
No, someplace between Chihuahua City
it.
some
you know, whatever
and saying
because it
to
sent
a barn
could.
Mexican
and
land.
Everybody
way they
them,
of
the
had a very hard tine.
us to
the
the
cities
were
governrnent
about two or three
They just
any pay.
people
whichever
for
or
they
coastlin€sr,t
They had to
first
or
the
the
the
But when the government,
now the border
to
wanted
pay
even if
government
There was no rooms.
there
that
rrYou have to leave
those
there
and they
we had to
alright
States
belonged
altogether.
did
here
you tisl
tell
from our pocket.
that
sleep
f want to
United
seaports
the
well.
who had family
was....We
the
property
that
left
whoever-
In
people
thing
group
stayed
very
in Mexico City.
was just
to....One
or
are doing
many came back?
ft
the
and they
Mexico
and....ItIl
But anlrway, everybody was, yOU know....The
33
think
about
Japanese men
had Mexican
wives.
were there.
And they
hard to breathe.
M:
And
They
when
teIl
with
their
know
husbands
and they
rroh my goodness,
me rater,
Why didnrt
you
did
reft
it
was
end
of
we leave before....?rl
things
were
okay
at
the
everything?
H:
when r read that
Hiroshima-
sai-d,
r
here
anymore.
they
said,
you could
Your
for
over.
home.fr
over. rr
rrn
not
so r wrote
And r did.
me and they
and we had the
me or
citizen?rr
M:
rrm going
cross
border
stopped
rrThe war is
heard
going
arrested
and they
father,
From the
took
me in
just
was he
to
stay
and
you know,
train,
a car
somebody
and we crossed
bags and everything.
me or anything.
about
my parents
rrWel1, come to Ju6rez and maybe we could,
was waiting
the
r just
they had bornbed Hiroshirna-
They
never
r'American
They said,
1et rne go.
interned?
Did
they
take
your
the War started
they
try
to
father?
No.
My father
had
l-eft
was lucky.
about
3:00
Angeles.
My brother
a trouble
and they
They stopped
said,
every
or
4:00
were going
hj-m on the
EI Paso.'r
to
El
So thatts
thing
one that
was helping
the
to
that
F.B.I.
the
there
way but
The only
so often
in
was living
ttAs soon as you get
are back in
only
That day that
one of
they
to
go
to
Los
and he had some kind
see if
they
just
could
herp
questioned
paso qo and report
of
hirn.
him and
that
you
what he did.
my brother
my father
men would
34
morning
at
that
saystime-
go there.
he was the
tisl
that
They would
close
the
everybody
store
and
who was Iin]
they
the family
go and search everything
know what
in
they
a regular
every
three
M:
( Inaudible)
H:
Yes.
way-
but
this
months or every
thatfs
man doing
for
four
told
coming here
thatts
WeII,
States.
couldget
his
it
fear
every
and they
month.
or
tupl-
wourd
dontt
so often-
It
was about
or whatever.
that
photograph.
so often?rr
an F.B.I.
man
rWhat
He said,
rWe11,
He said,
you
They werer
of people went into
But we know we didnrt
all
have
so....
EI paso?
came back to
m
my
v husband couldnrt
at first,
But later
at1
was every
why he comes.il
on I tried
by ny American
everything
citizen[ship]-
papers.
And you came over
Yes.
And you opened a business...
A store
but
us and seeing what kind
so you all
Wellr
Yes.
to
there-
me afterwards
the Japanese homes and everything.
anything
them
rnonthsr
my husbandrs
my son-in-Iaw,
know, watching
living
was not
it
Because my father
line
in the house and see what....I
were searching
came and showed hin
is
would
on Santa Fe Street.
What was it t s narne?
El Nido de los
Pobres.
EI Nido de los
Pobres?
(Iaughs)
35
come into
and found
he could
the United
out
cross
that
over
he
and
H:
Thatrs
a very,
she came that
very
old
building
building.
My mother
was there
and it
says that
was called
when
El Nido de
Los Pobres.
M:
So you never
H:
No.
changed
the
narne?
(chuckles)
End of
Aeginning
Your
children
Tape One,
of
Tape Tro,
became educated
B
Side
Side A
here
in
the
United
States?
Yes, yes.
And what
Javier
are
their
Honda.
Did they
names?
And ny daughterts
marry
of them.
a teacher-
and my daughter
[S]he has a very
both
best
for
working
for
She had a scholarship?
H:
That
for
they
My daughter
the
school-
hers
government.
the
had a scholarship
on the west coast.
M:
day that
is
working
good position.
single.
schools
[was]
My son is
single?
They are both
the
Irma Honda.
Japanese?
No, neither
Theyrre
name is
girls
only.
were trying
[to].
The girls
college
for
gir1s.
didn't
She had a scholarship...
And she was telling
to make it
want
it
to one of
co-ed
and so
me the
other
and nobody wanted
it
stayed
just
a
M!
What happened
H:
It
M:
Destroyed?
M:
Destroyed.
M:
What was it
H:
There
to
the
Japanese
that
like
before
was a Iot
of
nobody rearly
everything
had
the
unity,
had a very
like
part
like
wanted
to
not
a
thatvery
anything.tt
boy that
too
they
of
used to and
the
understand,
together.
but that
father.
much.
things
that
was that
they
I
get
didnrt
only-
f
r knew of we were
On my motherrs
But
guess
I
seeing
someone eating
motherrs
and ate
farnily
the
three
like
a long time,
meals
friends
and he didntt
everyone.
because
of one of my brotherrs
37
donrt
rnind
you know,
and he never
for
of
f
He
someone else
for
person
There were always
said,
us-
they
him.
eat
Irm o1d- f rm sayinq,
compassionate
liked
I
with
side
to
was enough food
now that
was a friend
everybody
and,
we had plenty
because there
one thing
was
there
ny
people
help
tif I anyone....My
anything
rike
there
I guess-
because we were the
were others-
liked
ourselves.
went
afterwards
was afraid,
one
didnrt
discrimination,
[hin]
remember ever
besides
but
Japanese,
Everybody
didn't
Thatts
They were stuck
guess in E1 Paso there
only
said,
to get together
tried
unity.
f
and everybody
or whatever,
you know,
that,
War?
changed.
American people,
just
here?
was...
were so few Japanese that-
the
community
said
Thatrs
rrWell, hy father
he
ours.
never
said
There
was a
and he said,
ttNo,
I
donrt
want
to
go eat
at
salchich6n.tt
And he stilr
sit
my father
him
with
everybody
ate
(laughter)
H:
You know, before
or twelve
of
to
really,
meet and talk.
M:
Did you speak in
H:
No.
M:
Oh, nobody speaks Japanese?
H:
No, not
M:
No?
H:
No. (chuckles)
fn the
teach
the
the
Japanese family
Yes, itrs
Japanesel.
and they
had,
And the girls
the
Japanese.
litt1e
to do with
and
was like
ciLizen
were about
ten
Japanese,
some
and
had
halfa social
was about
we
thing
to,
it.
English?
nobody speaks Japanese.
I
very interesting
Chinese but the
Japanese dontt
There was a family
think,
there
because the Chinese
were three
in Judrez
girls
[teach
at
the
War they
they
Chinese?
told
them they
went to Mexico
City.
couldnrt
the
one time
and two boys.
were coming here to one of the catholic
So when we left
Also
saTchich6n.rr
children.
children
during
that
Casino Japon6s?
And that
Japanese or in
children
but
same thing
so there
half
do is
used to
we had a Japanese-American
ourselves-
What we had,
you know,
the
Some of them were 100 percent
like
they
my mother
w€ had very
I was one of the oldest
htere
meetings.
thing
', .. .en mi casa puto
f got marriedr
kids.
them
hin
me about that
the Japanese from Judrez.
club.
give
and
Can you tell
The only
remembers that
and como dice
M:
league-
home.
cross
schools
over.
M:
Oh, Japanese.
H:
And
both
parents-
their
to
Japan
with
you
all,
saying
but
her
just
know,
(Chuckles)
H:
And, you know, they
they
were
Iike
the Japanese food.
not
interested
r heard-
Everybody
and
I
girls-
the
in Japan,
they
knew what
were
they
were
Eng1ish. rl
them didntt
taquitos
Jandl their
learning.
They liked
their
and
assimilated?
of
had married
The only
H:
The name, yas.
thing
years
Mexican girlsJapanese
now is
ago in
Mexico
a1I
married
(chuckles)
7os chismes.
something.
van a casar
I
of
the
(laughter)
not
the
name?
think
one
girls.
of
them
mexicana.r
39
about
liked
around
was,
three
sons,
to
visit-
I
was
tell
me
I didntt
man who was married
was
Mexico
And there
And we went to
And what the man was saying
con ninguna
he died
and he had three
Mexican
this
in
Japanese girls.
but
City-
Japanese
My brother-in-Iaw
know him but my husband didsons.
did because most- what
My husband had a brother-
and [they]
one.
really,
second generation
the
M:
two
one of
Some of
Yes, in Mexico they completely,
todo
They
in
H:
another
to her after.
parents
Completely
think,
were
spoke Japanese to their
M:
four
father-
(Iaughs)
carnitas.
or
the
girl,
the
whispering
never
and
f talked
rnother-
I would answer in
M:
all
mother
rrYou know what?
she said,
[and]
the
And one of the girls,
Japanese.
went
f fm sorry.
and had
twenty-two
tttlis hijos
or
no se
y 7o cuando 7o fuimos
a
sentar
there
M:
iIVo qu6
no!
Ah,
questions?
H:
I
well.
So,
(interruption)
What was the
Harbor?
you learn
Like
my parents
said,
I
the
brothers
about
during
they
had left,
that
party
get
married.
that
there
came in-
it
had
Extra.
bombed Pearl
didn't
taste
silent.
Were you in
H:
Shock and,
country
we ate,
or
that
them.
Pearl
girl
in
men.
the
and f went to
We were just
Japan
think
very
they
it
thadl
the
surprised
was going
I,
you know....But
I
shock?
and all
just
But sti1l,
that.
The party
looked
at
the
40
rrWell,
thought,
I was living
was just
food
or
in
Itrl
[an]
another
over as soon as
whatever,
the
just
food
and
to happen.
you know, I...
bad but
to
men ltrere out
caLled
donrt
that
day
And when they
they
said
I
went
that
afternoon-and
tirne
So we ate.
And I
all
who was going
And the
four
Afternoon
Anyway,
Los Angeles
where it
imagine anything
citizen."
or
at
anything.
[Iike]
was very
M:
American
Harbor.
to
together-
Sunday.
Japan.
4:OO or 5:00
showed us]
I couldnrt
I knew it
to
got
We all
to the
three
You know,
And [they
any
Chinese...
EI Paso.
every
for
were giving
was about
paper.
the
you,
were about
the
have
people
of
in
week to visit
I told
they
here
every,
She was going
hunting-
reaction
you
do
about
my parents.
the
like
me see,
about this?
and sisters-
twice
1et
werenrt
Sundays were spent with
He said,
(chuckles)
some questions
had
How did
(laughter)
there.
Hay esta 7a mexicana."
iVe!
"iVe!
was a Mexican girl
and
everybody
because
went
home.
none of
the
only ones there
out
their
Iaughed
or
make money- and he left
call
men went
Ju6rez
paper
just
I
was a doctor
to go to
someplace
Where they
it.
with
know why, he was a good doctor
he didnrt
they
the
came in
because there
who- I donrt
in
the
You know, in
in Ju6rez
Itfs
women were
the
and they
something
so much when I read it
know.
surprise
tbigl
and my husband and myself....The
(laughter)
rifles.
was a very
women- because
rabbits
hunting
so it
the-
and I
donrt
stolen
or
sell
but
I donrt
know what
second-hand
things...
M:
La segundas?
H:
No, no not
they
call
segundas.
[1a]
it.
It
has a name.
and buy second-hand....He
know,
[to]
things
whatever,
donrt
work with
like
that.
his
some kind
sending....And
I
was a doctor
left
of
to
look
he had in
to fix
know what
his
radios
house.
So they
H:
He was a spy.
would
with
Japan
knew what kind
of
want to pay.
Mexican and she said she wasntt going to pay.
think
she paid
so he had to
weeks or whatever
it
was that
41
the
stay
a1I
they
stayed.
I
a man he
The wife
was
So I dontt
time-
or
and was
say he was a spy?
WeI1, he didnrt
and
He had,
$ras. ( laughter)
M:
you
herramienta,
for
communication
because I
donrt
where he liked,
So he liked
hands.
what
I
anlrway he would go there
WeIl,
So he went
and thatts
know,
Es un mercado-
three
M:
So people
paid
H:
Yes,
that
was why they
wife
was Mexican and said,
anyway,
the
he stayed
station.
others.
If
Hiroshirna
all
that
M:
Yes.
H:
We went
father
here
Japan.
was from
because
to
And I
when
I
they
Japanese.rr
they
to
needed
that?
How did
Or how did
is
And,
the
was thinking
gone
anything,
but
fron
the
like
I
they
be different.
him
through
all
this
to
me very
treated
of Japan,
very strict
Everybody
visit
come
He came
When we
ny
fatherts
discriminating.
[against]
they
think
couldn't
I rm
home and
understand
we1l.
I guess,
[there].
has to
42
I
and my
he didnrt
we went to my husbandrs
they
Itrs
about
south
brother.
because
You know,
part
Japanese
think
anything.
older
going
of
very
said,
money or
me [we11].
The southern
the cities.
the
with
the
not going to be discrininated
So when we went,
treated
hirn to
now?
want to be under his
ttNo, I tr
have
But
him more than
but from what I heard they were very
said,
took
they would go and leave
Yokohama.
Japan I
relatives
the
pay.tr
to
soldiers
were watching
My husband
because he didnrt
went
the
and Nagasaki.
had happened,
to
going
But
what he was doing.
you knew react
Today?
and f think
paying.
tbyl
ttNo, Itm not
the train
people
H:
go out-
could
there
he left
You mentioned
of
out?
And the soldiers
and watch him,
M:
get
to
be the
itrs
more open than
Nobody is
supposed to
same and follow
the
even Japanese people-
in
their
get
children
foreigners
because they
in
In
Japan.
of
(chuckles)
them.
of
or
Mexico
very
In
the
around
there
The people
didn't
find
treated
that
to
infl-uence
the
they
rest
were very
rrlrm ashamed
kids
they
dontt
discriminate.
they
werel
a kid.
government
a few of
coTonias.
them who had
doctors
about
It
was the
look
one thing
43
elders
When they
something.
They just
so that's
people.
My son
They were a group
of them.
at
that
girls
of kids
who tried
are
everybody
I
or
nice.
are very
were
nice
had a
they
the way the boys and the
make the difference.
the
were
because
There were two or three
different
anything
hi-rn than
didnrt
There
Revolution.
so....But
the
in....There
lived
Spaniards.
was mostly
come before
we
City
Mexico
so
my heritage
know that
Itrs
and whatever.
bad things
of Mexico
a lot
because I
Mexicanrrr
ernployees and not the people.
the
It
being
read a lot
of
you know, thatts
And I have read
civilization
high
a lot
out
The other
[have]
too and Irm not going to say'
my heritage
thatts
And I
I know.
But,
f have to know what.
considered
are
have a 1ot of problems.
have found
and I
Japanese
things
about
they
and then
in Japan and studied
were not trained
them and....So
ridicule
kids
school
they
because
lot
a
years
three
two or
about
for
come to live
the families
and everything-
States
United
the
here
they have opened factories
now that
States
in the United
think
because
anything
felt
never
And I
more open.
a little
itrs
I
south
the
in
But
everything.
and follow
same rules
found.
as
kids
tif
United
the
you know....At
like,
get
couldntt
that
all
those
but
they
were treated
there
was more
M:
More egalitarian?
H:
Yes.
M:
Let
H:
(laughs)
What do you think
rne go back.
felt
you the
To te1l
because
sorry
for
was sufferingpeopte
were
War, okay,
WeIl,
out
found
in
than
Mexico
in
ry
Chinese
Itn
that
the
So thatrs
free.
is
what happened.
care
people.
innocent
Just
were killedwas war.
If
the way I
about the Chinese
it
as I
A lot
but I was innocent.
reason,
But that
Hiroshirna?
children,
and
finished,
the
looked
at
in Ju6rez
it.
and the
EI Paso.
in
H:
I know very
M:
Did you ever...
H:
No.
M:
Nothing?
H:
Nothing.
Even the
were
and they
innocent
question
last
there
about
I didnrt
truth,
whatever
women, and everything.
M:
I
a way,
in
open society
an]
lof
So,
same.
and
States.
United
of
the
Spanish
They were talking
the same.
were treated
people
black
were several
there
and
movies,
and the
restaurants,
In Mexico,
things.
they
I
the
into
people
black
was the
there
tirne,
that
in
were no
There
equal.
is
because everybody
States
here
than
in Mexico more of democracy
I found
I think
littte
You know, at that
Koreans.
Chinese.
about the
tine
They donrt
44
Japan was in war with
l-ike
the
Japanese
and I
China.
know.
way they
the
of
because
discriminated
the
that
know,
everything,
thank
M:
WeIl,
H:
And I wanted
and they
just
you very
much.
a lot
because
Iot
of people
the
donrt
just
every
sometimes in
something
at
like
there
but
and my daughter,
and that
they
papers
that
78 and I
it
hear
both
have good jobs
think
I
Now I
here
in
and that
in
have
that
[and]
my son
and ny children,
the
United
States
they
donrt
have to
For me, itts
have maybe two or
45
and they
bad things
too.
things
They
bad.
whatever
are
know there
rrffo
Mexicanos,
very
I
a sign-
therers
the
They just
and come in
and a
innocent
was
te1ls
good
can happen
time
thatts
are
And to
that
at
But
I
be a record
and
in Arizona
an educati-on
9ot
China
you are innocent
Japanese
depend from us nor us depend on them.
Irm
and
f tm glad my husband i-s living
changed completely.
his
Even if
that.
bad things.
the
get
the
does-
person.
the
country
he could
at
that
history
from it.
still
it
in
happened.
because we are
wonrt,
heard that
know, I
look
take
know what
looked
know if
entrantt,
donrt
suffered
they
way
Iike....You
donrt
people
it
You
to
this
I want
of
thought,
saw that.
thing.
hope that
I
doing
were
they
say this
know,
avoid....You
again.
what
Japanese,
to
just
But some people
thern.
with
relationtshipl
close
very
a
find
way
the
who understood
could
they
everything,
and
lived
they
But people
[against].
were
And they
and everything.
lived
badly
They were treated
a Iot.
been reading
Irve
I said,
Like
three
very
years
good.
but
Irm
M:
happy right
now.
Letrs
hope
for
very..
.
H:
I beg your
M:
Letrs
or
ten
hope for
ten
or twenty
look
[more years].
You know how they
look very young....
H:
Itrs
M:
Of course
H:
They work very
hard.
M:
They work very
hard.
H:
Like
not true.
not,
of
course
rny husbandrs
doesnrt
retire
they
have
traffic.
to
attack
afternoon
on their
he worked until
where they
from heart
the
morning-
iQu6 tr6.gica!
H:
No.
they want
own self.
And my
he was 72 but he used
lived
disease.
and at
Did you want to
therers
a lot
Instantly-
three
say anything
can make a copy and take
it.
rnuch.
H:
Yes, y€S, okay.
M:
Okay,
P:
This
Iet
is
So if
of
he had
otclock
in
the
he was dead.
M:
I
in
know how come Mexico
or anything.
depend
And then
And he died
a heart
donrt
I
security
I think
smoke a lot.
not.
brother.
have any social
brother-in-1aw,
to
Japanese
pardon?
say Japanese people
to
[more years].
twenty
me turn
the
end of
it
off.
the
End of
interview
Tape Two, Side A
46
Well,
about
thank
this?
you very