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An Interview with Eugene Williams
An Oral History Conducted by Claytee White
July 18th, 2008 Interview
All That Jazz Oral History Project
Oral History Research Center at UNLV
University Libraries
University of Nevada Las Vegas
i
©All That Jazz Oral History Project
University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2008
Produced by:
The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries
Director: Claytee D. White
Editors: Barbara Tabach, Melissa Robinson
Transcribers: Kristin Hicks
Interviewers and Project Assistants: Lisa Gioia-Acres, Claytee D. White, and Nicole Danelson
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The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of
Harold L. Boyer Charitable Foundation. The Oral History Research Center enables students and
staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person
narratives. The participants in this project thank University of Nevada Las Vegas for the support
given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish.
The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false
starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All
measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases
photographic sources accompany the individual interviews.
The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of
the All That Jazz Oral History Project.
Claytee D. White
Director, Oral History Research Center
University Libraries
University Nevada Las Vegas
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Table of Contents
Interview with Eugene Williams
July 18th, 2008
in Las Vegas, Nevada
Conducted by Claytee White
Preface
v
Eugene Williams remembers growing up in a musical family. He describes the photographs of
his musical career, some of which are found in the appendix to this interview. He explains his
working relationship with Buck Ram and how that helped to launch his career. He talks about
how he came to love singing and performing in high school, and the rise of his first band, the
Precision Six
1-5
Eugene reminisces about the music scene in California in the 1960s. He describes his time in
The Platters and in The Coasters. Williams' time in The Coasters exposed him to the Vegas
performing life, and he recalls some of those experiences. Eugene shares some of his experiences
as a travelling musician and life on the road
6-11
He recalls the prejudices that he and other black musicians faced during the 1970s. He speaks
about the role that drugs played in the music scene of that era. Eugene's daughter, Leonsya
Maria Williams, shares her memories of growing up with a musician for a father and how his
passion sparked her interest in music. Eugene describes the hardships of having a family while
working as a travelling musician
11-17
He shares his views on Las Vegas as an entertainment destination and the Rat Pack, as well as
the importance that Sammy Davis Jr. had on the black entertainment community. In 1990,
Eugene left The Platters and got married. He describes living in Vegas with his family, and how
he re-entered performance through a band called "The Sound of the Platters."
17-21
Eugene moved from The Sound of the Platters to The Coasters. He discusses the issues of
legality that the band has faced. He gives his opinion of the modern music scene and how it
blends with the music of the 1960s and 1970s. He discusses his philosophy on talent and the
future of Las Vegas entertainment
21-27
Appendix
28-33
Index
34-35
iv
Preface
Eugene Williams was born into a musical family. His mother and father were both singers, and
he and his siblings grew up singing. Gene sang in the church choir before forming his own
groups, the Vells and the Precision Six. Buck Ram signed Eugene to the Platters in 1970, with
whom he performed for eighteen years.
Touring with the Platters gave Gene the opportunity to travel through the United States, Europe,
and South Africa. The Platters are best known for their hits such as, "My Prayer," "Smoke Gets
in Your Eyes," "Twilight Time," and "Harbor Lights." He successfully performed with the
Platters for twenty years, leaving the group to focus on his family.
Eugene Williams returned to music through an ex-Platters group called the Sound of the Platters.
After a few years of touring with this group, he joined the Coasters. The Coasters are based out
of Las Vegas, which gave Gene the opportunity to perform while still being with his family.
Eugene passed away from pancreatic cancer on August 5th, 2008 at the age of 64.
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ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV
All That Jazz Oral History Project
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This is Claytee White. It is July 18th, 2008. And I'm with Gene Williams in his home in Las
Vegas. First we're going to start by walking over to the dining area and we're going to look
at some photographs.
My life was all about my mother and my father, and their music. That's how I was raised, fed, and
housed. These are some old photos of my uncle Gene Williams. My grandfather was Eugene.
My uncle was Eugene. My mother married a Eugene. They all named their sons Eugene. There's
many Eugenes in my family. But my uncle played with Lionel Hampton after the war from '45 to
'50. He's on some albums with Lionel Hampton. That's when he traveled the world with the big
band, touring. That's my uncle William playing trumpet. He had his own band called The
Continentals. This is Gene Morris and there's Gene Williams, my dad. He played with bands
back East. He's from Michigan, Grand Rapids. But he worked his way out to California where he
met my mother, and that was it. That's why we're here.
And her name?
Leonsya, as her namesake. You can see a little personality in her face there. These are just some
old pictures.
And everybody is singing in the family?
Yes. Actually, there's not many of us. The ones that did it are gone. Now, I have a couple of
cousins that are ministers. They sing in church. I guess it's just myself and my older sister, but I
was the only one that went professional.
Is that a wedding photograph?
No. That's Leonsya and myself. It was at her -- what do you call those?
First communion.
No, she's a little young.
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I can't see it that well.
Eight years old. But my memories are with me on my wall. All my memories. This is an
ex-Platter, and this is in the dressing room in Lake Tahoe at Harrah's. This is my son. I'm proud of
my son. He's deceased, but bless him.
Is this Brian Williams?
This is my son, Brian. He was in the NBA for eight years. I got to sing the National Anthem for
him about ten times with different big stars of other teams and stuff. He made me so proud, so
proud. Jean Bennett is here. Buck Ram is always here. He's young, and he's got an oldie but
goodie here.
Now, on another tape I have who they are. But could you tell me who Gene and Buck are?
Buck found Jean Bennett to promote her as a singer. She had a little soprano voice. He had
produced Ella Fitzgerald and many, many big rock-and-roll stars. Buck was involved with the
Platters and the Penguins, the group that did "Earth Angel." Those were his projects at the time.
Jeanie started to help Buck promote The Platters and to take the first record that they did, "Only
You," around to record stations around different cities to be played. The big break came when
they found Freedman, the one that wrote thousands of records for many stars. She found him in
Cleveland. He played it and the calls started coming in. Jeanie ended up being Buck's partner
because Buck was a little forgetful. As time went on, Jeanie was doing about everything. But
Buck was still the writer, producer, and manager of these groups.
He was like a surrogate father to me. I met Buck five years after I lost my father. He was
an older man that liked me and wanted me to do well. He said that I had everything I needed to do
well. We traveled the world together, and sometimes we'd room together. I cut his hair. I was his
barber. I was a lot of things for Buck. He was a friend of mine. I missed him when he passed
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away, the year my daughter was born.
I was looking for that old photo. This is Jean Bennett up here with Buck's daughter. I
don't know how far they went into their partnership.
Oh, I didn't realize it had gone that far, but I see.
You don't mind hearing truth.
It's fine. Yes. Tell me about growing up in southern California.
I grew up in Fresno, California.
So farming?
No. My daddy and momma were into music. I wasn't into farming.
So why Fresno?
That's where my grandmother moved to -- my great-grandmother. When they moved out from
Tampa, Florida, they settled in Fresno because they knew somebody that had come out before
them. That's basically the reason why. My uncle was already playing. My mother and my uncle
had performed together. When she was 13, she'd get up and tap dance. They had a little tap
dance/singing routine, a cappella singing. Then she would get back on the piano, and the boys
would sing and dance. It was during the Depression and it was a tough life. That's what they did
to make a living. They brought the money home to grandma. Grandma worked, too. All of them
together made a better than average living because of their talent, because of that gift.
My life was a blessing because of the gift. The people that I was able to talk to helped me
to gain some beautiful, special knowledge. That's why I call it the gift—because without it, your
life is not what it would have been or could have been. You never know what it could have been,
unless you pursue it.
I agree. I see where all the influences came from. But tell me what school was like. Did you
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participate in plays and everything in high school?
I was shy.
When did the talent come out?
In the 12th grade when my voice was low. My voice got low at 12 years old. I sang in the church
choir. It was lower than average. They put me in the men's choir, because my voice was lower
than a lot of the men trying to sing bass. A group needed a bass. One guy in the group said,
"Gene has a low voice. He could probably sing, like he sings at the church. Let's try him out."
They tried me out. I became a Fidelity [the name of the ensemble].
I started to come out of my shyness naturally, because people were coming up and telling
me, "Oh, wow, you're so good!" All that helps you come out. For the senior talent show, I
decided to do my own lead. I put four guys together and rehearsed them. I won the talent show. I
thought, hey, this feels good. People are clapping and you're the big man on campus. Our band
continued. Then the news came on the radio that there was going to be battle of the bands for the
whole county. The winners would get some cash and a record contract. A real Hollywood
recording contract. We won that, our group did.
And what was the name of the group?
We had to change our name to Precision Six, because there was already a group called Fidelities.
We did that as the Precision Six. We went to Hollywood and made a record. (Singing: "if his kiss
can thrill you just a little bit better than mine, go with him. I guess he has the kind of love you can
find.") Anyway, that record came out in '62.
Who wrote the lyrics?
We all did as a group. The other side of the record was "The Trip." I don't know if you remember
The Rivingtons, but they had "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow." (Singing.) Our song was "The Trip." Let
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me see if I can remember it. (Singing.) I'm trying to remember my song and I can't. You didn't
know you were going to get all that.
Yes, I did.
It'll come to me. But it was called "The Trip." People like my daughter tell me, "Oh, you weren't
saying these words back in 60s."
I say, "Baby, you just don't know what words we invented that are still going on from our
generation. Even my uncle's generation. My dad's, my mom's."
Which year were you born?
'44. June 15th.
Wou just celebrated a birthday.
I just did. I can't wait to get to the next one.
Time is going so fast.
Any other questions or you want me to just elaborate?
Once you went to Hollywood, were you discovered at that time?
Well, our record was like playing real well in the States—coming up to in the top-ten status and
moving up with a bullet. Then we found out the Minelli Brothers, that had put on the big
promotion, took the music track from the studio without the permission of the top recording
musician that wrote tracks for artists. That's why we had a great track and it was doing well. Our
lyrics were making it work, but they had to pull it off the market because he didn't go through the
right channels. We were on our way. That was our chance. You know, the same timing of all my
other friends, the Temps and Ross, all of my age.
The Temptations and those groups were back in Detroit.
In Detroit.
5
What was the music scene like in California, Hollywood?
We had Wolfman Jack. They had Freedman and different people. Sometimes we didn't want to
play the East Coast stuff, because our stuff would get there and they would want to hear West
Coast stuff. Later on, in '65, The Temps came out. I didn't join The Platters till '70. My group
was still recording. I was with the group from 17 until I joined The Platters at 25, when I met
Buck and Jeanie. I joined the group at 26, because I waited at home to finish up things. You
know, you can't just leave.
So did you gain the most success with The Platters?
Definitely. I had an opportunity to sing with The Coasters, a great group. When Cornell Gunter
was killed, Edwin Cook had sang with the Platters for a short time in about '76-77. You know, he
had a young family. He had to come home. The road is not for everybody. Cornell was looking
for a vocalist, and got a hold of the perfect kid: Edwin. Edwin was with Cornell for 18 years.
When Cornell unfortunately came to his demise, Edwin and the other fellow got equal usage of the
name as long as they use Cornell Gunter's Coasters featuring Edwin Cook. That photo of me is
from when I was a Coaster. I had left The Platters after 20 years. I did The Platters from '70 to
'90.
Tell me about being with The Coasters.
I loved working with The Coasters because of the high-energy music. In my groups, we were a
dancing, turning, temptation-style group. The Coasters with me being the bass I had songs like
"Charlie Brown," and "Yakety Yak," and all these things that I could be featured at. That kept me
interested. With The Platters sometimes it seemed like I was going to sleep on stage.
But The Platters were more sophisticated.
Definitely. But The Coasters were more fun.
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Okay. And I've always thought The Coasters were -Clowns. Clowns make people happy. You go to the circus, you want to go see a clown and laugh.
But we didn't have any of those particular clowns in our group. Nobody was trying to be like any
one of those original Coasters. You are what you are. As long as you do a good job singing that
song and the people love what they came to hear.
Have you seen The Coasters, the group now, at the Sahara?
I've been there twice to see them. It's been quite a while in between times. I have seen them
because they use one fellow I know pretty well. The last time I was there, I was sitting on the
aisle edge. He looked down at me and, "Hey, Gene!" We shook hands and all that. I liked them.
They were very good. I even liked the way they pull a person from the audience and bring them
up there.
How did you get from The Coasters to The Platters? Would you just tell the whole story?
Well, actually I went from The Platters to The Coasters.
I want to go back and talk about the Platters. So 1970 you are with The Platters.
Right. My first job was at the Flamingo hotel. I met Jackie Wilson, Chubby Checker, Ed
Sullivan, Fats Domino, and Ray Charles.
Tell me about Jackie Wilson.
Jackie Wilson and I actually became better friends afterwards. Jackie is a very popular guy. He's
pretty cool and slick. He's a Gemini, like myself.
Ladies' man.
Yes. So we're related. But he was older than me. He had started being all out there. I liked him:
his energy, his dances, his moves, his falsetto. I liked him a lot. But then after we started meeting
each other in Detroit and Atlanta and different places rather than the Vegas scene, where all the
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glitter was gone, we were able to get into each other's heads. We liked each other for that instead
of the music.
Earlier you said the road can be tough. Explain that.
I'd never be home on Christmas. I left town as a young man. I hadn't been out of Fresno that
much, just up and down California. The first Christmas I called my mother and I cried. I was
lonely. I had the group and the fans. We don't see the fans. We're in our room, sitting alone. I
wasn't used to that. You have to become a people person. They become your family, and your
company, and your friends. You walk into a pub in Scotland, and you don't know anybody. But
you leave there knowing everybody. They're all patting you on the back. "You hurry back, Gene,
we love you." It's like that. I don't know what more I can say to that.
So in 1970 did you go throughout the South?
Ooh, yes.
Did you travel on something called the Chitlin Circuit?
No. We didn't do Chitlin Circuit. Things were changing between white and black, big time. We
were right there in '70. Now, I'm coming from London in high-heel platforms. My hair is fro. I
said, "Buck, why are these people looking at me like that?"
He said, "You see how you're dressed?"
I said, "I'm dressed in style, ain't I?" This was in Birmingham, Alabama.
Also, being that it wasn't the Chitlin Circuit, the only people we had to talk to between
shows were white girls. This is in '70. They were still hanging. But we're Californians mainly,
West Coast and Midwest folks. We took home some friends we met at the club to the hotel. Five
cop cars pulled up and covered the whole street, looking like they wanted to kill us on the spot.
We knew they weren't, because we were the biggest thing going on in Alabama at that time. They
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couldn't kill all The Platters unless they killed all the white girls, too. We ran into that a lot in
Montgomery. Some places more loose. It depended on if servicemen were around, or if
open-minded people would see things that other small-minded people wouldn't. It depends on
where you. Something bad can happen.
What kind of venues did you play in the South?
Mainly concerts and major hotels with a pricey ticket. They were classy audiences and they kissed
our tails, instead of vice versa. We didn't have to say, "yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir." They're coming
up proud, taking pictures and getting autographs.
How did that feel?
I'd always seen that. I had always expected that. As soon as I was 18, I was sneaking down to my
father's club to learn how to sing jazz songs. The audience that likes jazz is a classy audience. I
always got that kind of respect from singing. Getting the applause helped me know who I was and
what I was capable of.
Did you feel that for the whole group?
I was like one of the leaders of the group. I insisted on some things, or they weren't going to be a
Platter. You had to qualify. That's in every way.
Tell me about the behind-the-scenes type things. When you guys come on the stage, your
precision, the steps are all in order, you look great. Who takes care of the clothes? When
did you practice? What is a day like?
We were at the Fairmont Hotel for a week or two, or at the Hyatt Regency for a week or two.
Then we would go on one-nighters for a series of no more than four. It was up to us to maintain
our uniforms, shirts, shoes, everything. We had to make sure they were shined to the tee. Most
times, we had patent leather shoes to go with the different colored tuxes wore. We even had white
9
patents for the white suits. We would get to a town and find a cleaner. We would put them in and
they bring them back to us. No problem. We didn't need anybody for that.
You would get up in the morning ten o'clock?
No.
Okay. Tell me.
No. We would get to bed at about five. Our whole life was different. I had to change my life,
because for years and years it was upside down, time-wise. We would get up around noon-ish,
and have some breakfast. We would go see what another bud is doing in the room next door, just
to start the day off. "Hey, you want to go down here? You want to go shopping today?" It's all
about hitting the mall or going out to do something. Otherwise, you stay in your room watching
TV all day. That's where I got in the habit of watching TV a lot, as she can tell you. But we had
fun.
I spent my young days between growing up...I see 25-year-olds as a kid now. When
you're going from 25 to 45, I think those are the best growing-up years. You're learning
everything you're going to know, everything that's going to mean something to somebody else that
you can share with them later on. You're learning those things between those times. When you
finish you know something through experience and life's educations. It just throws you. And
you're not asking for it or looking for it. You don't even know you're getting it at the time.
Did you practice every day?
No, no, no. Oh, no.
How often did you practice?
We'd have a set show. Until we wanted to add a new show, we wouldn't practice. We'd add new
songs once in a while, because the people that come to hear The Platters want to hear the same
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songs. It's going to be "Only You," "Great Pretender," "Twilight Time," "Smoke Gets In Your
Eyes," and "My Prayer." It's going to be that every day. If I wanted to sing something different,
then we would practice. Sometimes I did want to sing something different. "Let's do a Temp
song today. Let's learn to do another song." We would do other artists' songs just for us, not for
the people because they come to hear the songs we knew anyway.
What was the difference in performing East Coast and West Coast?
Wow. I liked performing East Coast, because I'm from the West Coast. I like the sophistication
of the East Coast folks. California is known to just to be loose.
Yeah. Laid-back.
But you know what? The best place to play in the world for us is Europe.
Tell me about that.
Europe is the best place. If I wanted to continue my career right now, I'd go to Belgium,
Germany, or Holland, and instantly be recording. They'd have me in the studio so fast promoting
me. They'd have me do concerts or little shows in pubs and places, but without prejudice. They
are proud to be a part of something. They had nothing. These people grew up here taking it for
granted, thinking Dick Clark invented that stuff. They are appreciating God's gift that these
people that are here with us right now, and that we can go up and talk to them. That's the best
feeling. That's when you feel like you're a superstar, when you're loved on top of your music.
You can be yourself, and it's okay. "Hey, we're just buds." They show up, they turn out, they do
what they do, give you your props. But that's the way it is for me in this world.
My proudest performance was in South Africa in '78 and '80.
So '78 in South Africa, what was that like?
'78. Mandela was in jail. I was riding home from the only television station they have in the
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country by the makeup artist, who's white. We were stopped because he saw me in the car with
her. He took her out of car and he questioned her. I'm thought, "Oh, Lord, I could die tonight." I
knew that. She was just taking me to a hotel, as he thought. I risked my life in some places doing
things that we could do here, but couldn't do there. They had big Dutch guards at the station. They
made sure they had the biggest, baddest, blondest looking dudes to intimidate any brothers that
came through there. But we toured about six, seven cities. The second time, we went we only
stayed in Johannesburg for six weeks. We only did "Joberg."
How was it politically, with the black groups going into South Africa at that time?
As long as you were a performer, you're all right. We were proud to turn down a concert that they
weren't going to allow to be multiracial. We were the first group to do that. We were over there
with Van McCoy the first time. Second time we were with -- doggone it. I know you know him.
Okay. A white performer?
Black. A white guy had a song and did it with him, a remake of it.
Stevie Wonder?
Is that it?
No. I was thinking Stevie Wonder, "Ebony and Ivory."
Me too.
No. This white guy called Uncle Kracker had a hit on his song.
That was before my time.
No. This is recent, a couple of years ago. I think his name was Dobie Gray.
Well, I remember the name Dobie Gray.
All right. Well, Dobie Gray wrote the song. Uncle Kracker did it with him, and Dobie had a part
in the song with him. That's the deal. He went over the second time with us. As you know, Van
12
McCoy passed away shortly after that. He was a disco-writing king from New York. (Singing.)
"Do the Hustle."
We didn't work Sun City like the average artists that were coming over there. But we
stood up. Buck stood up. We refused. That was the first time they had Indian, black, white as you
know the classifications of the variations, at one show. That was a proud moment.
That's wonderful. Now, in this country you may have missed this, but did you have any
problems or experiences with a black group making a song and then a record company
having a white group record that same song?
I saw it happen with Pat Boone. He was the main one. We never had that problem. A lot of
people recorded Buck's songs all over the world. He didn't even care, because Pat already made
them millions on them. It was an honor to him. "Only You" was done 13 times. Even one of The
Beatles did it. Johnny Mathis did it. That's an honor, to have your song recorded 13 times by
different artists.
We virtually never went through that. But it was an insult that our guys are thinking that
they made it. That's the way it was. My uncle, when he was traveling with Lionel Hampton,
would have to walk in the back door at some hotels. He had a light complexion. He would put a
turban on and walk through the front door with his little accent. He could even eat in the
restaurant. He just used what he had to. It was demeaning. He's from California. It was
demeaning, and he was tired of being treated like that. A lot of the guys kind of came down on
him for alienating the past. But he was about my complexion. He wasn't a white man. But he
decided he was going with the Arab thing because they'll let Arabs eat.
Whenever we see the movies of the takeoffs of some of the groups like The Five Heartbeats
and other movies like that that are made, we always see the influence of drugs. Did you ever
13
see that on the road?
Drugs? It was a mainstay. Every country we went to, every city we went to, somebody was
always saying, "Hey, you want to hang? You want to party?" Everywhere, every night. Really.
How did you say no?
Even in the sophisticated places, you had these dignified fellows that go in their thing and they put
out their little thing.
Yes. How did you say no?
Well, we had work to do. We had to work the next day. When you go on one of those binges or
you're partying every night, you can't work. You get hoarse, lose your voice right away. Can't
sing. If you can't sing, you can't work. The promoter's not going to be happy, and you're not
going to get paid. It's all a business. If you take the business seriously, you do the right thing.
But that's why The Temps were missing a lot of gigs. You can't do that.
Because different ones would indulge.
Yeah. Kind of just like that guy that was in The Five Heartbeats, your first movie. First movie
she ever saw. She was two weeks old. I took her to the drive-in in a new city and The Five
Heartbeats were playing. Anyway, that was a laugh.
What kind of awards did The Platters win while you were with them?
What's that award called? Rock and roll -Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Yes.
Did any of the groups -- were they getting Grammys at the time?
Not at that time.
Because really, you guys should have gotten some Grammys.
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Yeah, we should have got a whole bunch. Then the last real hit The Platters had was with Sonny
Turner in 60s. "With This Ring," "Love You 1,000 Times," "Washed Ashore." I don't know. We
were selling more records overseas. We weren't even trying here, because we knew where we
were loved, desired. I can show you albums of me when I was young. Matter of fact, I'll go get it.
I think it's here.
While Gene is out of the room, his daughter is here. You heard her voice earlier, so I'm
going to introduce her. Give me your full name.
Leonsya Marie Williams.
Leonsya, tell me more about what you've been doing with your future show business career.
I grew up in a household with all this singing going on. Just walking around the house, it's hard
not to fall in love with it. You grow up around it, and it's such a wonderful experience. You just
get fully into it. I was in choir all of middle school. I'm going into choir next year for my senior
year. What I love so much about theater is that you can contribute your singing, your dancing,
and your acting. It all combines into this one wonderful thing.
Now, tell me about the dancing. Have you taken dance lessons?
I did when I was little. It definitely isn't my strong point. But when you're in an ensemble and
you're all doing the same thing, it works out great.
Wonderful. And you're planning to go to UNLV?
Yes.
Great.
Now, this is RD, a record disk.
He's showing us an album, a 33.
Yes. This is called The Golden Stage.
15
Platters' Golden Stage.
It's a double album, see. That's me doing the little lead on that one.
Oh, this is wonderful. Now, you were probably the only group that had a girl.
Right. That's right.
That made you kind of different. Who came up with the idea of having a girl in the group?
Buck did. Then he saw Zola Taylor in L.A. She looked so young and vibrant. "Wow, don't even
need the guys. If they see her, that's enough." That's what did it, and it made a difference. The
Platters had a touch of class over every other black group in the world at that time in the 50s. A
run of making hits for ten years is a good run.
Give me the names of the other members of the group while you were in it from '70 to '90 if
you can remember some of the major ones that you remember.
Monroe and myself were the only two that stayed.
Okay. What is Monroe's last name?
Powell.
You were the only two permanent ones that stayed throughout that 20-year period?
Right. He was the lead singer. I was the bass singer. I was the emcee. I had learned to become a
spokesman from being the shy guy. Keeping the things light, telling little jokes, and keeping it
going. But we had several fine singers. Nowadays, people say, "Yeah, I want to be a Platter. I
want to record. I want to go on the road." They don't even know. Two years for them was a long
time. They weren't used to moving out every day, or once a week packing up and moving to
another part of the world. They wanted to do what they were educated in, or go back to the
family, or whatever reason they had. That's why I said it made it hard. It kept you from family.
That was the hardest thing for me. There were failed marriages because it. That happens with all
16
of us guys. It's just one of the down sides. You know you got to give up something to get
something. It's true in that respect.
And it's never possible for a wife, a spouse to travel.
To travel, she would constantly get tired. She's not the one entertaining, putting her soul out there
to get out of it. She loves her husband for so long, singing that same song. She's says, "I'll wait
for you at home, honey. "
Now, tell me about Las Vegas and what Las Vegas meant to a group like The Platters.
Everything. We played here more than anyplace else. Any time we'd go anywhere—Florida,
Miami Beach, New York, Chicago, those big hotels—and they'd say "Direct from Las Vegas,
Nevada!" and that's all they needed to say. Then the people knew they had somebody. They knew
they came to see somebody because we came directly from Las Vegas, Nevada. The influence of
Las Vegas in the entertainment world is second to none. This is the entertainment capital of the
world.
Groups who performed here even when there was discrimination, real discrimination -Like Sammy Davis, Jr., going in those back doors, boy. I did a telethon with Sammy, gladly, just
honored to be with one of the old-school guys that went through it. He and Nat Cole were
probably two of the luckiest brothers in the whole world at that time. If Sammy hadn't hooked up
with Sinatra liking him, taking him under his wing, he would have been the same as anybody else.
But Sinatra got him in the front door.
Even though I've always thought that of the Rat Pack, he was the most talented.
Sinatra wasn't a fool, either. He knew who could bring that show up and make the people go
crazy, like when they wanted him to be up there. He couldn't sing (singing). He couldn't send
Dean out there. No. It had to be Sammy tap dancing his way across that stage, jumping on the
17
drums, singing a song. People were going nuts. No, no, no. Frank knew what we had. He
generally liked him and respected him, but sometimes he threw out those little things that they did
that almost made me hate Frank.
I know. I've seen some of those samples. Thank you for that evaluation of Las Vegas. I've
always felt that, how important Las Vegas is. What about Las Vegas today?
I don't get on the Strip anymore. The entertainment isn't like it used to be. When Las Vegas was
Las Vegas, the lounge was the place to go, not the showroom. You could see some great acts.
The lounge would be full, and the showroom would be full, too. But then they got too
money-crazy and that did away with the lounges. That's the way that went. It's not as good. It's
different. It's a casual family vacation getaway now. That's what it is, compared to the 60s and
70s.
Do you see it as a family place, though, today?
Not totally. But they do bring them. You go down the Strip and see how many kids you see
running around.
And the around the swimming pools, some of the swimming pools.
Uh-huh. They're in the arcades in the places. They have to walk through the casinos to get to the
arcades. People playing cards and look up and see little dudes walking, going to the arcade.
So why in 1990 did you leave The Platters?
Because I met her mother. We got married and had her. I was saying, "Look, it's time. It's time,
because out of five wives, this is going to work. I'm tired. I tried to have a normal, regular life.
And it's impossible." It took me 20 years to really know that.
How did you decide on Las Vegas as a place to live?
Her mother lived here. I lived here. I'm from Fresno. It's about five hours away. Fresno is not a
18
place I'd want to live. Once you live in the world, you don't go back to Fresno.
Well, how many miles away?
400.
Oh, 400.
It's close enough where I would go run back and forth and see my mom and family.
So you said Fresno is never a place where you would want to -You ever been to Fresno?
Yeah, I have been to Fresno.
Now you know what I'm talking about.
But I grew up in a little place in North Carolina. I understand what you mean. You know,
North Carolina is great for me to visit -Yeah. We spent a lot of time in North Carolina. Got a lot of friends there. Love The
Platters there. They do love The Platters. They really do. You're a country girl.
Oh, yeah, definitely.
Well, that's why you're the sweetest of them all.
Tell me, after you came to Las Vegas and settled down, what was life like here? What was
Las Vegas like in 1990?
It's so different from what I was used. I was used to coming in, performing, living a little while at
home, hitting the road, start over. I couldn't find anything to do, because I wasn't entertaining at
that time. I had decided to leave it. Now I'm deciding what I'm going to do. And that's a hard
thing to decide at 45. What kind of new career am I going to do? I thought of things I had done in
the past. I was always a good salesperson. I sold golf clubs through Golf and Tennis Equipment.
Andre Agassi became a friend of mine by me doing that. After about 13 or 14 months I was tired
19
of that. I was tired of that.
That was such a difference.
It was hard for me to even get my entertaining juices out to sell these clubs. I'm spontaneous,
high-energy, and my personality and jokes aren't understood by certain people. Other people used
to get it and it would tear them up. They knew I was the man, life of the party. When I said
something, she would get mad instead of glad. I said, "What in the world is going on here? Okay,
that's only a teenager. That's all. I've just got to write it off. It's a teenager thing."
What did you and your family do for entertainment in 1990, Las Vegas?
Not that much, because she was a baby. Her mother was working after a while. I was like a
stay-at-home dad for a couple of years, changing those diapers. If I'm sitting here, she's right there
rolling on her thing\. You know, I'm just watching TV.
Same ole habit.
"Baby, no, no, no, don't do that. You'll hurt herself or break something." I'm just baby-sitting.
See, that's where it comes in. I started singing again.
How did that happen?
A fellow that used to sing in the group for a short time named Donny Radford said, "I've got a
chance to take a group of ex-Platters. If it's best if it's ex-Platters, but they don't have to be
because we're going to call ourselves The Sound of The Platters." We're talking about Kuala
Lumpur in Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, that area. That's what we did for a couple of
years. They loved us. You get there, drive up to a nice place. I mean, it didn't matter that we
weren't "The Platters." We were in places where people wouldn't be coming over here to even
know or see any difference. It worked for us to work.
A couple of years. What did that do to the family life?
20
Oh, things were cool because we didn't go over there for too long. We'd go for a month and come
back for a couple of months.
Las Vegas was the hub?
Yes. Yes, yes. For all of us in the group. Let me show that picture. Well, you can see it as you
go out. You've seen that Performance Magazine photo. Now the one that I'm going to show you,
I'm the only one that'll be on this one over here. There are so many different people. I'm going to
show you the picture of the group we took to Malaysia and Singapore. You'll see that it looks like
just any other Platter group I was with. Here we are. We were ex-Platters.
Oh, good. Four of you are ex-Platters. That's great. So these are the early Platters?
Right. That's like the '71 group.
Now, is this the same woman? No. She's different.
No. This girl here, she's back in town and she performs. She's one of those that still goes to
Belgium and England to work. She commutes. She's singing around here a little bit out at The
Lakes.
At some point are you going to allow me to take some of these pictures and scan them -- have
your daughter scan them for -I don't know what that'll entail. I mean taking it and taking it away or doing what to it? If it could
be done and I don't lose them, no problem. Okay?
We'll talk.
She can do it as long as they end up looking just like this. You know how much work I put in
these collages?
Yes. I understand. I really do. But it will be so wonderful as we're talking like this and as
it's transcribed that I can actually have that photograph in this part of the book that we're
21
going to have.
All right. Look at that hairdo.
Well, I was also looking at the one over there at the very end.
Oh, yeah. Not much difference.
Your daughter likes it, too.
Oh, boy. I'm telling you times change. Things change. And now I'm at the end of the road now.
I had my long road in life.
But you're only -- you were born in 1944.
Yes. But I have pancreatic and liver cancer at this time. I'll be going to Johns Hopkins on the
27th of this month, returning trip. I've gone there once to be evaluated, accepted. Now I'm going
back and we're going to get busy.
We're going to take care of it and get rid of it.
Yes. Her mother and my daughter, they're filling me up with all these good vitamins and different
things. They're keeping me strong between treatments.
Good because I'm only three years younger than you are. So you've got lots of time.
But you look 20 years younger.
Well, see, I didn't travel. I wasn't on the road.
You hit it right there. Wear and tear, boy, I'm telling you. You hit it.
When you settled in Las Vegas, did you live in this part of the city at that time or did you live
in other parts? Did you move around?
I didn't settle on this side of town.
When she was born where did you live?
Right over here on the other side of the lake. There's Desert Shores, where she's at. They were
22
south lake before that. This is north lake. It's just this side of Lake Shores. That was in '90. In
'85 I was in an apartment, the Sands. I see it all the time when I go down Oakey and Decatur. But
that's where I was in '85. I was just kind of moving around doing apartments. When you're not
married and you're out of town for a while, you can give it up because you're going to be gone for
six months. I was by myself, then. So I moved. I've lived several places since '70.
In 1990, you're back in Las Vegas. But now you're going back and forth because you have
this new group, The Sound of The Platters. What happens after that?
That faded away. Once you overstay your welcome, they start bringing in The Sound of The
Drifters, I guess. I don't know who they bring in.
Now, tell me about The Coasters.
What can I tell you about them? They're still going on. There's several groups of Coasters.
Marshack, this fellow from New York, had approval to use The Platters down there from Jeanie.
He just made us some Coasters. And they're bogus. They're totally bogus, I'm telling you.
Congress passed a law that -That's right. And it is not worth the paper it's written on.
But there was a group at the Sahara -- The Coasters, The Drifters and The Platters.
That's right. Marshack was in charge of all them, see.
The Drifters had to leave.
Right. They brought in the girl group.
Yes. Why did it mean something to The Drifters, but everybody seemed to -There was nobody to fight for The Coasters. Edwin was trying to get Charlie to go to Bally's. I
was just talking to them about it. This guy said he was a cousin of someone that's in the group, in
The Coasters. Marshack's got him saying he is the cousin of Cornell and that's the reason he got
23
the right to use the name. It's bogus. We could be in there. We could be in there legally as a
Platter or a Coaster.
But anyway, that's the way it works and it's a shame. You get a law that you've been
waiting and hoping for. That's what a lot of groups are fighting for right now. You see on PBS
how they have these oldie-but-goodie shows. You get the original sound, the original songs, the
music, or the legal group at the time. There's been groups that have changed members many,
many times. You might see a group that has only the lead singer and the rest are young dudes, but
it's still that group. That's a legal group that can go work, use that name, make that money, make a
living.
Now, tell me about the money. Starting from 1970 would you say that it was very lucrative
and that at times it was better? How would you describe the financial end of performing?
Ooh-wee, it wasn't all that lucrative in the early part. Transitional things were going on. I guess it
depended on if you had a big outfit or a single thing. But disco was coming along, and everything
else was moving back. Disco was the only thing they wanted. This is '75.
That's right. Donna Summer.
Yes. Disco messed up everybody for about five years. As you can imagine, people show up with
a record player and the artist sings and dances. And then rap changed things.
But do you find that rap has interfered with the audience that likes the old school?
No. No. A whole new audience. But some of the same people that like rap appreciate the oldies.
They even play them. Like Snoop, he's rolling and playing songs from my era in his car. I was
just using him as an example because I saw him say it recently. It's funny how things work, and
how it's all going to bring us together one day.
You believe that?
24
I do. I do. I believe it was God's purpose for us to have an especially hard time because of what
he gave us.. .the gifts He gave us so different from the others of the world. We were supposed to
have a hard time.
Do you think that we're doing good or we're doing right by God with those gifts?
We're doing what He expected. And it'll turn out as expected when we do finally come together as
a people.
This shouldn't even be in an interview. But is Barack Obama one of the things that will help
bring us together?
It should. But some whites are hard headed. It'll never happen for them. But they're not a
majority. They shouldn't affect it. It will make it hard to make it easy. He is a part of the new
projection from prophecy for new things to come about in the last days. We're not going to go
there. But we know each other's heart, don't we? I know you know. And she knows I know.
Yes. What is your attitude about gambling?
I don't gamble. I used to. But my attitude is when I started losing too much, to leave it alone.
When I hit that 10,000-dollar jackpot at Sam's Town just waiting to get to my car, I thought it was
a great thing. But it's a one-in-a-lifetime thing. It's a lucky thing. You just have to be sitting
there. I was the only one sitting there, the only one, and hit a royal flush. It's a losing situation,
totally, no matter what. In the end you are much farther down than you are up.
What do you see as the future of Las Vegas entertainment and otherwise?
You know, it depends on a lot of things like the economy. If people are living large, they can
spend large. Otherwise, this town will suffer. That's the only logical thing I can see. I hope it
doesn't happen. I mean, this is my town. I've been here a long time. But I worry about it. I worry
about the water, and the lawlessness. The gang thing is not good for a city that depends on
25
outsiders.
Tourists.
Tourists. The reputation on that end, due to L.A.'s prompting, has worsened the reputation. It
makes people think twice. Would you rather go to Tahoe than Vegas? Vegas is kind of scary.
But if the economy stays up, we'll do all right because people need a playground. They need a
getaway.
And we are the best.
There is no better. No better.
What about downtown? Usually when we talk about entertainment we think about the
Strip. Have you seen downtown recently, Fremont Street?
I've seen it recently. The mayor is really behind and pushing. I like the idea. Downtown used to
be really nice. There's a group of people that want the Strip and vice versa. Now they're putting
up some quality hotels and that'll bring some quality people. They're going to tell the people that
used to live on the mall that they have to see somewhere else, provided they can find a place for
them to sleep instead of lying up against the Four Queens. But it's on its way. He's getting his
dream. He's not going to stop.
Yes. And I'm glad about it.
Me too.
Good. Any closing comments or any stories you want to tell us that you can tell in front of
your daughter about being on the road and entertaining?
Nothing I can tell in front of my daughter.
I really appreciate this. This is wonderful. And I'm going to get with your daughter and
we're going to discuss how we can use some of your photographs.
26
Okay. Okay. Okay.
So thank you so much.
This is my pleasure. It was a beautiful interview. It went by fast enough because I wasn't seeing
any hurry.
Good.
27
Appendix
Photograph of the "Buck Ram Platters" from Mr. Williams' scrapbook
29
Cover of This Week in Las Vegas featuring The Platters
30
Photograph of The Platters on the cover of the Rand Daily Mail
31
Photograph of the Platters warming up before a show in Atlanta
31
Cover of The Platters' Greatest Hits album and The Platters self-titled album
32
Photograph of The Platters with Dobie Gray in South Africa
32
The Platters on the cover of Where
33
The Platters on the cover of The Star Tonight (1978)
33
Gene Williams' Obituary from the Las Vegas Review Journal
33
28
Nostalgia Lane With
The Buck Ram Platters
FOR VIEWIN(LAREA
VP TQ 1} INCHES,
(4f*f/
MAXIMIZE
I Jwi*
YOUR
SCREEN.
(jt„
The first name group Edwin joined was Tht ttmi Rum I'lumn. Their hits include such tunes as Only
You, Twilight Time, Harbor Lights, My prayer, and The Great Pretender to name only a few.
Ill l o w U M . < MM KWISE: Edwin Cook, Eugene "Geno" Williams, Monroe Powell, Harold
Howard, and Geri Holiday.
29
There's nothing like coming home to this kind of »elcome....and getting your own feature article to boot? Now...
THAT'S HAPPEISIJS'!
30
31
32
G I N t W1U1AMS DtfS
tone MMfcJim. Iiayi singer of
• sptrx.fr of The Matter*, died
Tbesday in I -a» Vega" after a
battle with pancreatic ameer,
bis management team said
Williams
a member of
The Burt Ram PUtt«n. a group
formed by Ram. manager of
the original Platter* Wiltiam*
Is «umvtJ by a daughter,
leomay
Hut two sons, arlan and
Kevin. J ted three month* apart
In 2002, both under unusual
circumstance*
Brian WUlwmv the Orlando
MaglcS No 1 draft pick in
1991 after he barred at the
Umvcrcity of Arimna. went
muMnx and
precutned
dead after a salKioat trip off
1.1 hit i with htt girlfriend and
hi* brother
"IVo wnto later. Kevin
Williams waa seen bringing
the boat bock In Tkhlti by
him»df IHiiice detained him
m Phoenix two month* after
the incident and questioned
htm for buying $152,000 in
gold by forging hi» brothers
name
Kevin William* died of an
insulin ovenkxw three nxauh*
after the disappearance
of Brian Williams and hi*
girlfriend, according to
published report*
•Gene was very mole
about it." *aidG*yteVchre<bor
a member of Williams'
management team
33
H
A
Hampton, Lionel, 1, 13
Agassi, Andre, 19
Harrah's, 2
Atlanta, 7
Hollywood, California, 4, 5, 6
Hyatt Regency, 9
B
J
Bally's, 23
Barack Obama, 25
Jack, Wolfman, 6
Bennett, Jean, 2, 3
Johns Hopkins, 22
Birmingham, Alabama, 8
Boone, Pat, 13
K
Kuala Lumpur, 20
C
L
California, iv, 1, 3, 6, 8, 11, 13
Charles, Ray, 7
Checker, Chubby, 7
Lake Shores, 23
Chicago, 17
Lake Tahoe, 2
Chitlin Circuit, 8
London, 8
Clark, Dick, 11
Los Angeles, 16, 26
Cleveland, 2
M
Cole, Nat King, 17
Cook, Edwin, 6
Malaysia, 20, 21
Mandela, Nelson, 11
D
Martin, Dean, 17
Davis, Sammy Jr., 17
Mathis, Johnny, 13
Desert Shores, 22
McCoy, Van, 12, 13
Detroit, Illinois, 5, 7
Minelli Brothers, 5
Diana Ross, 5
Montgomery, Alabama, 9
Domino, Fats, 7
Morris, Gene, 1
N
F
Fairmont Hotel, 9
New York, 13, 17, 23
Fitzgerald, Ella, 2
North Carolina, 19
Flamingo, 7
P
Florida, 17
Four Queens, 26
Performance Magazine, 21
Fresno, California, 3, 8, 18, 19
Philippines, 20
Powell, Monroe, 16
G
Precision Six, iv, v, 4
Grammys, 14
R
Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1
Gray, Dobie, 12
Radford, Donny, 20
Gunter, Cornell, 6
Ram, Buck, iv, v, 2
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, 14
34
S
the Platters, iv, v, 2, 6, 7
The Rivingtons, 4
Sahara, 7, 23
The Sands, 23
Sam's Town, 25
the Temptations, 5, 6, 14
Sinatra, Frank, 17
Turner, Sonny, 15
Singapore, 20, 21
Snoop Dogg, 24
U
Sullivan, Ed, 7
Summer, Donna, 24
Uncle Kracker, 12
Sun City, 13
University of Nevada, Las Vegas, i, ii, 15
V
T
Vegas, i, ii, iii, iv, v, 1, 7, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25,
Tampa, Florida, 3
26
Taylor, Zola, 16
The Beatles, 13
W
The Coasters, iv, v, 6, 7, 23
The Continentals, 1
The Drifters, 23
Williams, Leonsya Marie, 15
The Fidelities, 4
Wilson, Jackie, 7
The Five Heartbeats, 13, 14
Wonder, Stevie, 12
the Penguins, 2
35