Batman - The World`s Finest

Batman: The Animated Series,
The BRBTV Interviews
No. 10 in the BRBTV Reports series
By Billie Rae Bates
...............
“Batman: The Animated Series, The BRBTV Interviews”
A collection of interviews examining the TV shows “Batman: The Animated Series” and “The New Batman
Adventures” from Warner Bros. Animation, originally airing on Fox Kids from 1992 to 1999.
Copyright © 2011 by Billie Rae Bates
Originally released to Amazon’s Kindle platform in November 2011.
“Batman: The Animated Series” and “The New Batman Adventures” and all of their featured characters
are properties of Warner Bros. Inc. of Burbank, Calif. All rights reserved.
Batman created by Bob Kane.
Photos of the interviewees are courtesy of those respective interviewees. Photos of the Comics
Continuum interviews courtesy of ComicsContinuum.com.
Special thanks to Will Rodgers, voice-impersonator extraordinaire and “Batman: The Animated Series”
aficionado, for his editing help.
CONTENTS
Joe R. Lansdale
Randy Rogel
Scott Beatty
Ty Templeton
Robert N. Skir
Michael Horse
Dorian Harewood
Corey Burton
Also see …
Joe R. Lansdale
Inspired by the cape and cowl
To say that Joe R. Lansdale is a captivating writer is certainly stating the obvious. Weaving through the
genres of horror, suspense, science fiction, Westerns and even humor, this self-monikered “Mojo
storyteller” has garnered a lot of acclaim over the decades. BRBTV had the opportunity to chat with the
fervent Texan in February 2009 about his work in the animated Gotham City.
First of all, how did you get into writing (when did you first feel that calling)?
“When I was a child the idea of being a writer appealed to me, and I know I began writing by at least age
9. My mother told me it was even earlier, but the age of 9 I’m certain of. Comic books had a lot to do
with me becoming a writer, as I early on wanted to tell tales, and before writing, I tried drawing stories,
but once I took to writing I loved it more than drawing. I was only mediocre at best at art, but I felt
greater ability and excitement from writing. So, eventually I quit trying to draw and write comics, and
began to just write.”
Did you like Batman comics as a kid?
“Batman was my favorite as a kid. First was Superman, but as I grew a little older, Batman appealed to
me more. I think because he was a normal guy (by comic standards, anyway) and did what he did
through training and study and dedication. In many ways, Batman has been the backbone of my life and
career, because Batman comics excited me so much that I went into martial arts, am a self-taught
writer, and have studied and been interested in a lot of things with Batman as my inspiration. I liked a
lot of DC comics, and other comic characters, but Batman was always and still is my favorite.”
You wrote for four episodes of the animated Batman. How did you get that gig?
“A friend of mine, Bob Wayne, worked at DC Comics and when my wife and I were in New York visiting,
he showed me the opening to the then-new ‘Batman: The Animated Series.’ The part that opened every
show. He told me he thought it was going to be a good series. I said something about how much I liked
it, and later, he put in a good word for me, and I got a call from the producers of the show and went to
work for them. I only did it when they called and asked me to, but I loved doing it.”
“Perchance to Dream” can be seen as a real heartbreaker of an episode (especially for us romantics!),
because here is a life that Bruce Wayne could have lived, and maybe even deserved to live. Did you
see the end as disappointing for Bruce, or just a necessary fact of his existence?
“I guess I saw it as both disappointing and a necessary fact of his existence. I think that Bruce Wayne
likes being Batman, he just doesn’t like the reasons that made him Batman. ‘Perchance to Dream’ and
‘Read My Lips’ are toss-ups as far as my favorite episodes that I worked on.”
You worked on the “Batman” episodes with other writers, I see, mainly with you doing the teleplay.
How long did it take you to complete your work on one typical episode?
“They would send me an outline for what they had in mind, but they gave me great flexibility. I
expanded or revised scenes and wrote dialogue. It was a lot of fun and it went quickly. The scripts I
wrote, especially the first three, were pretty much as I presented them, a few changes here and there,
and mostly for time constraints or censors in a few mild cases.”
What was the process? How was the writing work divided / distributed?
“They just sent me an outline they had, and I wrote the script from that, venturing out in places, cutting
in others.”
The occasional touches of humor in these otherwise-dark “Batman” episodes were great, such as in
“Read My Lips” when the ever-cranky Scarface turns to Arnold Wesker and rails, “Don’t put words in
my mouth!” How much leeway were the writers given in either one direction or the other, light or
dark?
“That first series was pretty dark and as much for adults as it was kids. I was able to go pretty dark, at
least for a mainstream TV series that was supposed to be for kids, and I have always liked humor in my
work, so I didn’t hesitate there, especially in dialogue. I tried to write the scripts where they had a sense
of humor for the producers, story editors and actors to enjoy. A lot of good writing in script is unseen,
because it’s stage directions and a way of presenting the story with enthusiasm.”
Besides the “Showdown” episode, I see you’ve worked on some Jonah Hex comics (and you’re
certainly no stranger to the Western genre). What do you like about the Jonah Hex character?
“I always liked that he was an outsider, someone who didn’t follow the rules, but yet, at heart was
someone who was trying to do the right thing for the most part. He just wasn’t long on patience.”
There’s a Jonah Hex movie in development, with Josh Brolin in the title role. What do you think of
that casting, and have you at all been approached about an involvement in the film?
“I love the idea of a Jonah Hex movie, and wish I had been involved. I think ‘Two Gun Mojo’ that I did
with Tim Truman is one of the best Hex comics ever, if I do say so myself, and I do.”
Wikipedia says, “Frequent features of Lansdale’s writing are usually deeply ironic, strange or absurd
situations or characters.” Do you agree? Why or why not? (And Bat-fans might agree that the
“Critters” episode fits that bill!)
“I do agree. That is often the case. ‘Critters’ was a nut-ball idea that I thought could be a lot of fun. It
was my least favorite of the scripts to work on, but I still enjoyed it. It was probably modified more than
my other scripts. They were making a transition with that, or so I felt. It was now Batman and Robin and
they were consciously trying to do it more obviously for kids, and that wounded the idea before it got
started. I did, however, see it as more of a throwback to the Batman of the ’50s and early to mid-’60s
when science fiction and wild plots were the norm. I like the episode more than I should, as it seems to
be the one the fans hate the most, while my others are among fan favorites, and ‘Read My Lips’ and
‘Perchance to Dream’ are considered among the best of the series. I think we all knew what we were
doing with that episode; it’s just jarringly different from the other episodes and presented another view
of Batman that was less the Dark Knight. I really like a lot of the dialogue. I had fun with that.”
What's been the most rewarding part of your career?
“Being able to do pretty much what I’ve wanted to do, and not being trapped by others’ expectations.”
Randy Rogel
To the tune of a whole lotta toons
Take a look at longtime writer Randy Rogel’s resume, and lots of colorful characters will pop into your
field of vision: Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, Animaniacs, Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse, among others, plus
one particular darker character we all know and love. We had a chance to chat with this Emmy-Awardwinning talent in February 2009 about his experience in crafting the animated adventures of the Dark
Knight.
Your bio begins “Writer, Producer, Story Editor, Actor, Composer/Lyricist.” That sure is a lot of hats!
Which one do you like best? Or which one do you do best?
“I have done all those jobs and I like them all.”
You had the privilege of crafting two key two-parters for the series, “Two-Face” and “Robin’s
Reckoning,” both great “origin” stories (and one of which got you an Emmy). How much license were
you given to veer from the traditional comics stories of Harvey Dent and Dick Grayson?
“We were given fairly good license in crafting an interesting story as long as we stayed true to the
original characters.”
Can I assume that you are responsible for one of the most brilliant lines in ANY television show,
anywhere, Rupert Thorne’s comment about Harvey, “The brighter the picture, the darker the
negative”? You don’t know HOW MANY times I’ve quoted that fabulous line over the years!!!!
“I believe that line is from ‘Two-Face: Part I.’ Alan Burnett did the outline for that and I wrote the script,
so I’m not sure which one of us came up with that particular line. You’re right, though, it’s a nice piece of
dialogue.”
“Robin’s Reckoning” really draws a nice corollary between Dick’s background and Bruce’s — they
share this deep childhood pain of their parents’ death. Yet, while Bruce is dark and driven all his life,
Dick is at times an idealistic kid at heart (before he becomes the more seasoned Nightwing). How
important did you think it was, at that point, to draw a distinction between these two characters? Or
was this similarity between them more the point of this two-parter?
“I think this is a very thoughtful question and it goes to the heart of what I think drives Bruce Wayne to
become Batman. My personal view of Bruce Wayne, which informed my writing in the series, is a
haunted boy who saw his parents murdered before him and is tortured by the fact that he was
powerless to save them. It’s the fact that he was powerless that drives him. He’s gone to great lengths
to make sure that he will never be powerless against criminals again; in fact, it’s his obsession now. Dick
did not make that same decision. Dick is more emotional than Bruce and is immediately bent on
revenge, which would be the normal reaction for most of us. It is Bruce who pulls him back from that
brink, helping him to avoid becoming that which he hopes to destroy. That’s what gives Bruce / Batman
a leg up on a normal, angry vigilante, and that’s why he’s so effective. It also gives him the moral high
ground while he’s essentially acting outside the law. It’s this difference between Bruce and Dick that
makes older and wiser Bruce the teacher and Dick, the younger and more impetuous, the student.”
Wikipedia says you made Bruce Timm cry with the scene where Dick says goodbye to his circus friends
before leaving for Wayne Manor. Are you surprised by that?(!)
“Bruce is one of the most talented artists I’ve ever worked with and a creator of ‘Batman: The Animated
Series’ along with the enormously gifted Eric Radomski. It was my joy to work with them both. Batman
was meant to be an action series — rock ’em sock ’em beat up the bad guys, but Bruce Wayne’s haunted
past, and Dick Grayson’s as well, left room to explore a darker side of their psyches, and to mine the
depths of what drives them and ultimately makes them human. That moment you speak of, when Dick
says goodbye to his circus friends, was a lovely opportunity to show the sadness of this character and to
invest the audience in his story. When you can add that kind of richness to a series, audiences become
much more attached to the characters.”
Whose idea was it to base “Tyger Tyger” on William Blake’s poem?
“Michael Reaves.”
I have to ask a question about “Paging the Crime Doctor.” Dr. Leslie Thompkins is coerced by Rupert
Thorne’s thugs into assisting Matt Thorne in the surgery. There's a disturbing moment in the shadows
of this dark home between her and the thugs. Of course, the overall tone of the series was pretty
dark, and you can certainly see that in the aforementioned episodes, but did that moment actually go
there?
“Since this was a children’s cartoon (although admittedly it did play to an older crowd) we had to be
careful. BS&P (Broadcast Standards and Practices) was all over us, though I think they were pretty fair
most of the time. As I recall (and it’s been a while since I saw this one) thugs were coming to get Leslie
so she would help Matt Thorne with Rupert’s surgery. I don’t think there was a reason for her abduction
to be more than that.”
Which character of the animated series did you enjoy writing for the most?
“I loved them all. Batman is a fun character to write for because he has no superpowers and can be
injured or killed. That makes him easier to imperil and his dilemmas more difficult to overcome.”
Which character did you / do you relate to the most?
“As a writer, I tried to get into the head of whichever character I was writing, both the good guys and
the Arkham Asylum crowd. If I had to choose my favorite character to write for, it would be Batman
himself. He’s so dark and tortured. There’s a lot there to play with.”
You are a West Point grad with 10 years of service as a military officer. Are there ways that you might
suspect your military background crept into your writing for the animated series?
“At West Point I learned a lot about self-discipline, which transferred to my writing habits. I was also
required to read many of the classics and it informed my writing later.”
Let’s talk about “SubZero.” How did your writing that movie come about?
“I particularly enjoyed writing ‘SubZero’ because, similar to Harvey Dent, Mr. Freeze is a tragic hero who
became what he was through no fault of his own. Boyd Kirkland, an extremely gifted artist and
outstanding director (he directed fully a third of the Batman episodes) came to me with the project and
was looking for a writer. Here’s a piece of trivia you might enjoy hearing. The Batman DVDs were meant
to be companion pieces to the feature-length movies that were coming out every two years from the
Warner Brothers studio. Our original villain was supposed to be Bane, a sort of super soldier who has
been chemically altered to have great strength. We wrote a terrific screenplay (I’m sure I must have it
laying around in some old box somewhere) that made Bane essentially The Terminator. Batman keeps
taking him out but, over the course of the story, Bane just keeps on coming. Bruce Wayne / Batman
continues to get weaker (we had a nice B story with Bruce being in love), but Bane cannot be killed and
he’s on a single-minded mission to destroy Batman. That made him an extremely formidable opponent
and the story was a total roller coaster. I loved it.
“Then Joel Schumacher’s Batman film was ready to release so Warner Home Video called us and asked if
we could change the villain to be Mr. Freeze because Arnold Schwarzenegger was playing that role and
he’s a big star. I told them that Freeze was a much different villain than Bane. They were thinking we
could just do a search and replace and swap in Mr. Freeze’s name wherever Bane appeared in the script.
Boyd and I told them that that wasn’t going to work. So, Boyd and I had to toss that script and write an
entirely new one using Mr. Freeze as the villain. After studying the character, it occurred to me that
Freeze was a tragic character with a lot of pathos. He wasn’t motivated by money, greed or revenge. All
he wanted to do was save his wife. Incredibly, we had a villain who was motivated by love. I thought
that could make a very interesting story. At the same time, Dick and Barbara were an interesting couple
to bring together because they were Robin and Batgirl and didn’t know each other’s identity. How fun to
have them dating and at the same time competing as Robin and Batgirl without knowing it. So, we
decided it would be a story with a strong love component between the protagonists and the villains. I
also wanted to flesh out the character of Dick / Robin more, to make him more of a real person with real
issues as a young man as opposed to just Batman’s sidekick. I think it came out very well. Another piece
of trivia: I ran into Roger Ebert at the Sundance Film Festival after ‘SubZero’ released and he had given it
a great review, so we talked about the film a little. He told me that he was amused by the fact that the
live-action Batman picture — ‘Batman & Robin’ — was more of a cartoon and that ‘SubZero,’ which was
a cartoon, was more like a live-action film.”
The romance of Dick and Barbara was only touched on briefly, in that movie. Why wasn’t it explored
further in the episodes (it was in the comics, of course)?
“Boyd and I were asked to do a sequel to ‘SubZero’ after it received such a favorable response (even
though ‘Batman & Robin’ with Schwarzenegger did not do well). I leaped at the chance to take Dick and
Barbara’s relationship even further and we wrote a terrific story, one that I knew we could have a lot of
fun with. At several points in the script, when they crossed paths as Robin and Batgirl (not knowing each
other’s alter-ego), they quarreled and disliked each other immensely. She thinks he’s got a huge ego and
he thinks she’s lame as a crimefighter. As Barbara and Dick, they were falling in love and ultimately get
engaged. Bruce tells Dick that he has to tell Barbara about Robin; she has a right to know the truth. So in
this lovely, romantic scene, Dick takes Barbara down into the Batcave and she is astounded to learn that
the man she loves is Robin. Then she hauls off and slugs him in the mouth. ‘What do you mean I’m
lame?!’ she says. Then she realizes she just gave away who she is. It’s a wonderfully funny but also
romantic scene.”
“The action sequences to that story were really fun, too, but ultimately Warner Bros. decided not to do
another DVD because the franchise had been hurt by ‘Batman & Robin.’
“I’m glad to see that, many years later, they were able to revive the franchise by taking it to a darker
place, which is where it belongs.”
Scott Beatty
On the Bat-influence
Any Bat-fan who hears the name Scott Beatty is bound to think of the wonderful kids’ guides he’s
crafted for our beloved animated series as well as its animated offshoots such as “Superman: The
Animated Series.” This longtime name in comics is also the author behind the great and amazingly
illustrated book “Batman: The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight,” and it’s on that platform that we
went to him in 2009 for a few words on the influence of this animated series in the regular Batcontinuum.
We know the Harley Quinn character was created by Paul Dini for this series, then introduced into the
regular comics continuum later because of her mass popularity. Which other “B:TAS” characters have
made that transition?
“I think Renee Montoya is the only other notable character to have roots in the animated series.
However, Montoya made her first appearance in the comics prior to her introduction on ‘B:TAS,’ so the
Bat-editors at the time must have realized what a great character she would turn out to be.”
This series has struck such a chord with Batman fans because many feel it hit the true essence of
Batman dead-on. Do you think that in the ensuing years, in the mid-’90s and beyond, the “B:TAS”
interpretation of the Caped Crusader crept into the comics in some ways? Did Batman’s mannerisms,
values, priorities show any kind of influence of the show?
“I can’t speak for other Bat-creators, but I know that MY run on Gotham Knights, as well as the three
Year One stories I did with Chuck Dixon (Robin, Batgirl and Nightwing) certainly felt evocative (to me, at
least) of the kind of ‘core’ Batman stories we saw on the animated series. Dini and Timm created a pure
essence of Batman that was story- and character-driven, but wasn’t weighed down by continuity,
although the shows certainly built a strong and unified history out of the existing Bat-canon.”
Frank Miller’s 1986 interpretation of the Dark Knight was groundbreaking and a heavy influence on
the Batman of the comics. Wikipedia, for instance, says, “The Dark Knight Returns influenced the
comic-book industry by heralding a new wave of darker characters, and along with Batman: The
Killing Joke, it was also a major influence on Tim Burton's Batman in 1989.” This was a Batman, after
all, that had changed over the years, emerging as dark in the 1930s, then taking a lighter tone
between the Golden and Silver Ages, ascending (descending, some would say) into camp in the 1960s.
“B:TAS” is not quite as dark and gritty as Miller’s take, though. So do you think that “B:TAS” drove the
comics version in a little different direction, in the wake of Miller’s influence?
“I think ‘B:TAS’ certainly mined elements of film noir to great effect and cast it in an art deco world that
borrowed from the old Fleischer Superman cartoons, albeit painted with a darker palette that might
certainly have been influenced by Burton’s ‘Batman.’ Miller was more dystopian future with sci-fi
influences, but Frank through-and-through, especially in his interpretation of Batman and who (or
where) he would be if he survived past middle-age.”
It seems like one place the animated series didn’t go, but the comics have on occasion, is into the idea
of the world gone mad — Gotham City disintegrating into chaos around Batman and the other
characters. We had No Man's Land, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and even Miller’s Mutant gang running
wild. Why is this world-gone-mad scenario such an easier element to execute in the printed comics
format, but evidently not on the small screen? Or maybe the age of the audience is the determining
factor (the animated series was, after all, directed at kids)?
“Obviously, you’ve got more room to breathe, so to speak, in the comics when it comes to world-gonemad storylines. Here you can plot and execute a yearlong arc that takes the characters through a very
specific journey. In a 30-minute animated episode (minus 6 to 8 minutes for commercial time), it’s likely
more difficult to do anything more meaningful than have Batman experience a worst-case scenario ... or
a really bad dream of a future that his very existence hopes to prevent. Or maybe it’s the difference
between one world being THE STORY while in another venue it’s merely (and only) THE SETTING.”
Ty Templeton
Perpetuating the printed page
There’s a lot behind that cute little bunny he likes to draw, you know. From Ty Templeton’s first original
comic series, Stig’s Inferno in the ‘80s, through his more recent Spider-Man / Human Torch series, this
guy’s been pretty busy. Along the way he did a whole lotta work on a quaint little comic called The
Batman Adventures, later the Batman & Robin Adventures, and he even went on to write the book
“How to Draw Batman.” This Ontario-born comic-book writer and artist, who’s based there these days,
too, has worked for DC, Marvel, Bongo and others. “I fool people into thinking I can cartoon,” he jokes
on his Facebook. He took the time for a little chatter with BRBTV in February 2009.
Can you tell me how it came about, that you worked on the comics title, and what did you enjoy most
about it?
“I wasn’t there from the very, very beginning of the show. That was Timm and Dini, and I wasn’t
involved until a little later. I was originally hired by an animation studio in Toronto to be a storyboard
artist for the series as it got up and running, because I’d animated / sort of directed a few cartoon
Batman commercials for Zellers (a local discount store in Canada) in the late ’80s. These commercials
were, apparently, looked at by the folks putting together the show, or someone at DC, anyway, ’cause
the Zellers commercials are what got me the gig doing storyboards for the show. However, the local
production company in Toronto never ended up doing any episodes of the show, and I never drew a
single illustration for any storyboards. (I did get paid for two weeks of no work whatsoever, though...)”
“It was my peripheral association with the show that got me the gig drawing the first three or four issues
of the comic book series, which was originally intended only to be either a three-issue or a six-issue
series ... but sales of the first six issues were off the scale ... something in the hundreds of thousands
range (over a million worldwide) and they decided to continue. I was off doing some other gig by the
time issue 7 was scheduled to go (it might have been JLI or something else, I don’t recall) and the very
gifted Mike Parobeck continued on with the series for the next 25 issues with terrific success, with
scripts written by Kelley Puckett.
“When Kelley Puckett left the series around issue 33, the editor asked me to come back and do covers
and scripts, as he wanted to keep the series ‘in the family’ and since I had drawn the first few issues and
covers, they thought it was preferable to bringing in someone new. I either wrote the script or drew the
interiors or the covers for the next 50 or 60 issues. (There’s a few issues that I laid out or drew the
covers for that I’m not credited for, primarily because Mike Parobeck became quite ill, and I started
doing his layouts uncredited, so he could keep up the schedule ... issues 34-36 are laid out by me, and a
few covers that Mike drew towards the end are my thumbnails.)
“Anyway, as to what my favorite part of the project was? I think it was the chance to write one of my
favorite characters from my childhood. I am a HUGE Batman fan, and the chance to put words in his
mouth was a thrill. The second thing I enjoyed was the people I got to work with ... especially Rick
Burchett and Scott Peterson (the editor for the first couple of years). With those guys on the team, the
book was a breeze to work on. Scott was very supportive of the stuff I brought in, and he always pushed
me to be better. And Burchett was a dream to script for. He always knocked the storytelling part of the
job out of the park! Bruce Timm and Paul Dini were great to work with, as well, though I only did four or
five issues or so with those guys, but they were amongst the best ones we did.”
Robert N. Skir
Dreaming for a living
Gargoyles. Beetlejuice. The X-Men. Spider-Man. Robert N. Skir knows them all pretty well, because he’s
written them on the animated small screen. This New York native also knows Superman and Batman,
pretty well, too, as he took a spin on our two beloved animated series. We got the opportunity to chat
with him about both shows (see the other side of the story in the BRBTV Report of interviews on
“Superman: The Animated Series.”) A UCLA grad (screenwriting), Skir lives in L.A. these days with his
German shepherd, Big Barda.
You worked on the “Lock-Up,” ”What Is Reality?” and “His Silicon Soul” episodes of “Batman: The
Animated Series.” Two of those episodes were early on, in the first season of the show. Did you have
any inkling, at that point, how big the show would become?
“Absolutely. As soon as I saw the initial designs for the series in a short test reel which showed how
stylized the show was going to be, and as soon as I read Paul Dini’s “Heart of Ice,” I knew the show was
going to be one for the ages. Clearly for the first time ever, the characters were being done in animation
by people who deeply loved the characters, who grew up on them and wanted to see them done the
right way. (Which was something I brought to X-Men, because I really, REALLY loved the X-Men.)”
How was writing for the “Batman” series different from the other TV writing you’ve done?
“I’m going to say it wasn’t different at all. I try to work on shows I deeply care about, and always write
at the very top of my imagination. So no matter what property I’m working on, I always keep foremost
in my mind that I am dealing with the creation of somebody great (whether it be Stan Lee, Jack Kirby,
Bob Kane, Schuster and Siegel, etc.) and also something that means a lot to its audience. It’s like I have
a huge sense of obligation coming from both directions ... the original creators and the fan-base. It’s
humbling and it keeps you honest.”
“Deep Freeze” features a glimpse at Bat-Mite, which every fan certainly caught and many still
remember and love about that episode. Whose idea was that?
“I’m guessing it was the director’s idea to throw him in. Or Bruce Timm’s. Anyway, they were gonna get
him into the series somehow, and clearly they couldn’t do him as Bat-Mite. I thought it wonderful and
clever.”
“His Silicon Soul” raises the question of what really makes us human, as Batman’s duplicate seems to
have all of his thoughts and memories. What were your influences as you worked on the episode?
“What makes us human, what makes us truly unique, is something I think about a lot. And it seemed to
me to be a better ‘take’ on the robot that he become so much like Batman that he actually had
Batman’s morals, than, say, merely having an evil robot that happened to be dressed like Batman.
Ultimately, it isn’t Batman’s fighting skills or cleverness that wins the day ... it’s the morals at the very
core of his soul. I love telling stories like that.”
“What is Reality?” is rather painful to watch (at least for this fervent Batgirl fan!) because of the
torture that Jim Gordon goes through. Was there any concern that Gordon’s time in the VR world was
a little dark for kids?
“We like going dark whenever possible. Doing so raises the stakes and gives the stories more resonance.
Plus, most of the violence perpetrated against Gordon was in a cyber-dreamscape. Plus Gordon’s a
tough-nut ... he can take it!”
“Lock-Up” introduced a brand-new villain to the Bat-realm, the dark and sadistic Lyle Bolton / LockUp. You and Marty Isenberg wrote that teleplay from a story by Paul Dini. How much did Dini sketch
out for you beforehand, and how much did the two of you get to create, as far as particular elements
of the episode?
“Paul created the character. I named his alter-ego and patterned him after Robert DeNiro’s Travis Bickle
(‘Taxi Driver’ — tipping over the TV was a direct reference). And the idea of Bolton’s using a ship as a
prison came from me (lifted right from Charles Dickens’ ‘Great Expectations’!). I wanted to use the ship
as a prison ... and then have Batman and Lock-Up battling on the ship while it was sinking. That was
totally killer, and it was totally mine! (LOL.) But the overall story was Paul’s — the idea to have
somebody who could keep the villains locked away ... but he’s even crazier than they are and now
Batman has to take him down — pure genius, pure Dini.”
Who would play Lock-Up if he made it into the big-screen Bat-franchise?
“No idea. I liked doing the Travis Bickle stuff ... but I have no opinion on who’d play him in a movie.
(Then again ... The Rock does come to mind.)”
Were you a fan of Batman or Superman as a kid?
“Loved ‘em both. I was always a superhero kid — Marvel and DC, and the idea of working on them (and
X-Men) — all dreams come true!”
When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?
“Once I realized that I wasn’t going to be a superhero, I knew I wanted to be a writer. You get to dream
for a living; what could be better?”
Is Big Barda a good dog or a bad dog?
“Best. Dog. EVER. (I got her from a rescue shelter. Rescues are wonderful dogs because they have a
special appreciation for a nice home and a loving family.)”
Michael Horse
Inspired by art and heritage
He may be of Yaqui, Mescalero Apache, Zuni, European and Hispanic descent, but Michael Horse is not a
complicated man. He loves his art; that’s his passion. Along the way, over the years, he’s done some
acting. A little thing called “Twin Peaks,” of course. Then there was the role of Ubu in “Batman: The
Animated Series.” Horse, who was born in a place he calls “near Tucson,” comes from an artistically
talented family of jewelers, potters and painters. As a young boy, he grew up in a culturally rich
environment and was taught how important art is to the well-being of the human spirit. Horse took the
time to chat with BRBTV via phone in March 2010.
How did you first hear about the role of Ubu on “Batman: The Animated Series”?
“I had an agent, and they just called me up. It’s really interesting, because the industry got a clue about
15 years ago that if they’re doing a Native character, they should really use a Native actor. I always
wanted to do animation, and I started doing a couple voices, and they liked me, and I did it more and
more. I just did ‘Curious George’ yesterday. It’s a series for PBS.”
What voice did you do?
“I did the Navajo medicine man. And I’ve got a recurring part in a new series just coming out on Sunday,
called ‘Sons of Tucson.’”
And what is your role in that?
“I play a friend of the main character, where he works. My whole career in this business has been a sort
of experiment in bizarre booking. I never meant to be an actor! I’m an artist and an activist; that’s what I
do. I never wanted to be an actor. And then when I was running my studio in the ’80s, I was asked to
play Tonto in a new movie.
“But animation is my favorite thing to do. Growing up, I was in a family of artists, so I always liked these
images, even when I was a little kid. I always read comics. Batman and Superman, they go well with
Native American myth and legend. There are a lot of stories we have of people with given powers that
come from different dimensions and warriors who take it upon themselves to be protectors of the
people. Those kinds of stories really hit home for me.”
What part of Michael Horse do you think is infused into the character of Ubu?
“All of these characters that I play are all a part of me. It’s just something that I have to tap into. A lot of
it comes from having traditional Native American stories told to me as a kid. I put a lot of characters that
I grew up with into these characters that I do in animation.”
You reprised the role of Ubu on the companion series, “Superman,” then voiced another character on
a different episode. Any differences between working on the two shows?
“The characters I play are similar. I play a lot of elders and wise, traditional people, and bad guys. They
cross-reference with each other. Especially now as I’m getting older, I do a lot of voices for video games,
and I’m always the wise elder.”
Did you get to voice your lines with David Warner? What was he like?
“I don’t recall. Sometimes not the whole cast shows up. But very seldom will I go in and do a voice by
myself. Usually I work with the others, which I’d rather do. I really enjoy it. It’s really the same guys who
work this animation over and over. They’re very fun guys to work with. The directors of animation are
some of the most serious directors you’ll ever work for. They have an image in their ear of what they
want to hear, and they’ll keep you there until they hear it. And it doesn’t matter what you look like;
when you’re doing animation, it has to come from the inside out.”
What about Kevin Conroy? What was he like?
“Extraordinary.”
Were you a fan of Batman or any other comics when you were a little boy?
“Not so much Batman. Superman, I was. It’s also for me, I’m such a fan of animation. When I watch a
series I’ve worked on, and I actually get to see the voices come out of these human beings, I’m just like
everybody else — it’s amazing to me. I think it was Superman when I met Nichelle Nichols who starred
in ‘Star Trek,’ and I was in awe of meeting her.”
I loved your performance on “Twin Peaks”! My mom and I were both big addicts of that show. I saw
the references to David Lynch on your website — do you know him very well?
“We are good friends. ‘Twin Peaks’ was quite something. It changed the face of television. Lynch is a
great artist. The Native American roles, they’re usually pretty stupid. But that character was a really
dignified, insightful character. There’s nobody like Lynch. To see things through Lynch’s eyes is like no
other filmmaker. I’m surprised it still stands up, after all these years. I’ll be walking the street, and young
kids will be following me saying, ‘Are you Deputy Hawk?’ I think it was really good, but it died out before
its time.”
You worked with David Lynch on a project before “Twin Peaks,” didn’t you?
“I worked with him on something called ‘The Cowboy and the Freshman.’ I was asking David, ‘What are
you going to do next?’ and he said, ‘I’m going to do a TV series.’” (He laughs.) “I said, ‘They’re not going
to let you do a TV series.’ David is one of the straightest men around, but deep inside he’s like Salvador
Dali. ... If I hadn’t done anything else in my career, that would’ve been enough for me.”
What do you watch on TV these days?
“I’m watching ‘True Blood’ right now, about the vampires. ‘Breaking Bad’ is a new series that’s just really
amazing. ‘Weeds’ is great. There’s some really, really good stuff that’s coming on.”
You’ve been a jeweler for more than 30 years.
“My whole family were Native potters and jewelers. I separated Michael Horse the artist from Michael
Horse the actor for many years. The art is what I do. It’s a lot of fun to do, and once in a while you get to
do something of quality, but it’s basically a paycheck. But my art is where my passion is.”
Did you ever get to wear any of your jewelry on “Twin Peaks”?
“Yea, I wore stuff from time to time. A funny inside story: My name was T. Hawk, and they put this little
nametag on me. I asked them, ‘What’s my first name?’ and they said, ‘Tommy.’ And I said, ‘My name is
Tommy Hawk?’” (laughs)
It says on the IMDb that your scenes were deleted from the “Twin Peaks” movie, “Fire Walk With
Me.” Do you recall what the scenes were?
“Yea. It was a four-hour movie. God bless David, he called up and said, ‘I’m so sorry, but there’s two
whole stories going on here and we had to cut you out.’ There was just too much story going on. I hope
to work for Lynch again someday. That’s the way David works — one day he’ll just come out of the blue
and say, ‘I bet Michael could do this.’”
You’ve certainly kept up your acting career. Tell me about the latest project that’s listed for you on
the IMDb, “Behind the Door of a Secret Girl.”
“I don’t know what that is?” (laughs)
OK ... tell me what you’ve got going on now!
“I have a recurring role in the ‘Sons of Tucson,’ and it’s a very funny part. I think I’m on the last three
episodes. I’ve worked for these guys before. I was trying to be funny, and they said, ‘No, Michael, just do
what you do.’ I’ve been doing a lot of sci-fi films.”
You mean the movies Syfy puts on at 9 p.m. Saturdays? The creature features? I love those movies!
(Laughs) “Yea. I’m always the elder who tells them, don’t dig here, don’t dig here! I’ve also done some
theater pieces. I’m going to try to direct an M. Scott Mamet piece that I find fascinating. And I turn down
some stuff. I make my living as an artist. Once in a while I do something to keep my insurance up. I’ve
been doing a lot of voices for video games. ‘Age of Empires’ and ‘World of Warcraft.’ My nephews will
play and hear my voice and they’re quite amazed. I did a voice on ‘The Spirit,’ which was my favorite to
work on. Wonderful, wonderful. Dreamworks. Big animated motion picture.”
The IMDb says your jewelry, carvings, paintings and ledger art have been exhibited at the Smithsonian
Institute in Washington, D.C. Is anything of yours there now?
“No. I don’t have anything there now. The Native American History Museum — that’s where my art was.
I had a couple paintings in there, but I don’t know where they went. I think they went back to New York.
I used to work for the Native Foundation in New York off and on. I worked for a lot of museums. I lecture
all over the country. The museum of anthropology in Paris, I’ve lectured over there.”
What would you say has been your most fulfilling life’s work, so far?
“It’s been my artwork. I’ve been an activist. I helped pass the Indian Child Welfare Bill, which is where
when you adopt a Native child you have to make sure they have ties to their tribal culture, because a lot
of people are adopting Native kids. I was a lobbyist for that. That’s one of my personal accomplishments.
My art. My show that’s coming up at D. Young Museum in San Francisco. My filmwork, things like ‘Twin
Peaks’ I’m quite proud of, and the series ‘North of 60’ in Canada. There are a lot of things I’m not so
proud of. There was one movie I did, my mom said, ‘What were you thinking?’ and I said, ‘I had a car
payment!’
“What happened in this incredible period of time between 1920 to 1940, that’s a really interesting time
and you don’t see that, when we enlisted and went to war in World War I and World War II and land
disputes and border disputes. It was still pretty wild on reservations in 1920 and 1930. I look for the
writing, mostly. It didn’t take me long from a bunch of bad films to realize it’s only going to be as good as
it’s written. I try to look at what’s on the page.
“I’m on the American Indian Film Institute in San Francisco. We archive films; we have a tribal tutoring
program. Our academy awards are in November. I usually host it. Digital film is so exciting to me,
because it’s putting it back in the hands of filmmakers. I’m seeing, especially on the reservation, these
young kids who are making films and editing them on their computers. They bypass the system of the
studios. I’ve been on their board for almost 20 years.”
Dorian Harewood
Hitting all the right notes
There’s a certain harmony to Dorian Harewood’s career, and you can pick up the notes as you speak to
him. This longtime voice and screen actor has a wealth of TV and film roles to his credit, beyond
“Batman: The Animated Series” and “Superman: The Animated Series.” We got the chance to chat with
Harewood, who calls L.A. home, about his work, via phone in February 2010. (And see the BRBTV Report
of interviews on the “Superman” show for what he said about working on that!)
You’ve done a lot of regular TV roles, in addition to your voicework. How does on-screen work
compare with voicework, in terms of preparation?
“There’s much more preparation involved in the on-screen acting level than the voiceover level. They
are different challenges, but there’s more preparation involved in creating a role for the screen, to go
from the script to the screen. But there is preparation involved in voicework, as well. It’s necessary, but
it’s case by case. As a voice actor I’m pretty limited — I’m pretty limited as an actor, too — but as a voice
actor it’s not that difficult because they usually hire me for sounds that are close to what I really sound
like. It’s a lot of fun.”
Which do you prefer, being on-screen or doing voicework?
“I like both of them. Financially, you get paid a lot more for on-camera work than voiceover work. So
from that financial standpoint, it’s much more desirable to do that. But I like all of the stuff. I like any
form of acting, singing, music, that kind of thing. I started out as a singer.”
What first got you into voicework?
“I just kinda fell into it in New York. I was doing a musical and my agent liked my speaking voice and set
me up for some commercial — I can’t even remember what it was. I don’t think I got the first one, but
after some point I started getting work. It led to other things. Just as the acting community has crosscommunications between the actors and directors, etc., the same goes for voiceover work. If they like
you, they usually talk to someone else about you. That’s the thing that’s kept me steadily working in one
thing or another for something like 36 years.”
I loved “A Pup Named Scooby-Doo”! Do you remember what voices you did on that show?
“Sadly, no. What’s interesting is that I haven’t seen half of the movies that I’ve done. I do them; they’re
fun; they’re challenging. But once they’re done, I don’t care to see them. The same goes for voiceover
work. But I would have to be reminded as to what the characters were. I would have to hear them to get
back to what they were. I’m always onto something else. In ‘Scooby-Doo,’ I just remember Casey Kasem.
I remember working with him, and he was fun to work with. That’s about all I remember.”
You voiced Dan Riley, one of the homeless men, in “The Forgotten” episode of “Batman: The
Animated Series.” Later, when the show became “The New Batman Adventures,” you voiced a judge
in the episode “Critters.” You then were Armory / Big Jim Tate on “Batman Beyond.” Fast-forward a
few years, and you’ve done the voice of Martian Manhunter on “The Batman.” That’s a lot of different
Batstuff! How did your work on those series differ?
“Just specific to the characters, the one that I remember the most is the most recent one, Martian
Manhunter. What’s interesting is that the man who voiced Batman — Rino Romano — is also an NBC
promo voice actor. So that’s kinda interesting. We see each other, and it’s, ‘Hey, Batman!’ ‘Hey, Martian
Manhunter!’
“All of the roles are fun for me, because for me, acting or singing, I go about it as a singer, because I
started as a singer. The interesting and challenging thing for me is the rhythm and harmony of sound,
and that’s what guides my acting, whether it’s on-camera or in the studio as a voice actor. I’m interested
in the rhythm and harmony and silences of a scene. I guess what interested me in voicework is that it’s
like playing a song, except in this instance, we’re not singing, we’re speaking. That’s what keeps it very
interesting to me. That’s why I don’t have a condescending attitude toward any phase of the business,
whether it’s acting or animation or commercials. They’re all interesting challenges to me. I don’t go
about it like some of the actors who might say, ‘I’m an actor, I don’t do commercials.’”
Were you a Batman fan as a kid?
“Yea, when I was a kid. I liked Batman, Superman, all the Stan Lee stuff, the Marvel stuff. I really liked
comic books growing up.”
What cartoons did you watch on TV as a kid?
“Oh, gosh, they had Batman, Superman, I think Sub-Mariner. The morning cartoons were not as
suspenseful; I remember that. I watched the Disney stuff, Mickey Mouse.”
Armory was a pretty good, juicy villain role on “Batman Beyond,” and one that was, of course, brandnew to the Bat-realm. Big Jim Tate is what I would call a sympathetic villain — he certainly doesn’t set
out to be bad, but he runs into awful circumstances that push him into a corner. When you voiced Jim
Tate in the “Spellbound” episode, when he was still a good guy and simply getting married (!), did you
know he would reappear later as a villain?
“No. Basically what I was hired for was that particular episode. It wasn’t that they were hiding it from
me or anything. It’s just that they hired me for that particular character. Those are the kinds of things
that make it interesting. That’s probably the reason they hired me. As a dramatic actor, I could bring
more into it. The character had some levels to him. He wasn’t necessarily just some boring, bad guy. He
had some circumstances that pushed him toward certain choices, and he went to the bad side because
of those choices.”
What kind of character sketch on him did you receive before you did the voice?
“What they do is they give us character descriptions. I had to audition along with whoever else was
going up for the role. There’s usually about a couple paragraphs worth of description. For instance, for
the role I played in ‘Roots,’ Alex Haley’s father Simon Haley, they gave me a little book with the
description of the character. Animated characters are in general not quite as deep or as multifaceted or
complicated as on-camera characters. But what they try to do is hire people who can bring some extra
things to the characters.”
How was working on the “Superman” show different from the “Batman” series?
“I didn’t get much difference in the two.”
Was it Andrea Romano you worked with, on all of these series? What was she like?
“She’s just terrific. The directors I work with are really good. They hire me because we work well
together. With Andrea, we would go through the script fairly quickly, while the sound person was
getting the levels. It’s kind of a quick rehearsal. We’d have questions answered about the characters.
She’d guide us in the right way. Any questions were answered by Andrea, then we’d be ready to record,
and that might be piece by piece, line by line if necessary. In the recording studio, efficiency and speed
are very much required. That’s why Andrea is so good — she’s very good at getting the best out of the
actors in a limited amount of time.”
Did you tape your lines with any of the other actors, or by yourself?
“It’s generally with the other actors, with the rest of the cast. We’re all in one room, and we each have
individual mikes. That’s really the best situation. There are some times when we come in by ourselves
and do what they call pickup lines, alone. But for the most part, it’s with the cast, and that’s the most
fun. Because you have an ensemble feel, and you can feed off each other. There are some terrific voice
actors out there, and I have learned a lot from them. These same actors are very good on-camera, but
for the most part they make their careers off-camera because they have so many different voices they
can do.”
When you were working with the “Batman” and “Superman” series, how did you picture the viewer
you were speaking to? These shows have, of course, attracted viewers of a variety of ages, not just
kids.
“I didn’t really picture them at all, really. I was so intent on making the character right, and knowing
that, having read the script, if done right, it would appeal to that wide audience. My job was to make it
work. I knew who the audience was, based on what I was doing, so while working, I wasn’t really
thinking about the audience. It’s all about getting the story told, and the characters fully developed.”
What’s been your all-time favorite voice role?
“My all-time favorite voice role ... gosh ... Once again because I started as a singer, my favorite all-time
voice role is the role of Stretch in the animated series ‘California Raisins.’ We played basically the
Temptations. We were the Motown singing group. We got to do some wonderful Motown-type songs.”
What projects do you have going on now?
“I work as a promo announcer for NBC, for different TV series. I work with KCET, the public TV station in
the community. I did a film a couple of months ago. We filmed in Delaware. It’s a comedy with Lea
Thompson and Judd Nelson; it’s called ‘Mayor Cupcake.’ I do maybe six or seven TV series as a regular. I
like that format. It keeps me in town. It’s good exposure. I do a lot of things away from acting. I’m a
professional-level blackjack instructor and player. I teach blackjack. I do seminars and individual
sessions. I teach people how to protect themselves when they go to casinos, and I encourage them to
play at home, not for money.”
Corey Burton
Beyond Brainiac
You certainly acquire quite a bit of experience and seasoning with a few decades in the voice-acting biz.
You’ll see that resonate in the words of Corey Burton, whom BRBTV had the pleasure of chatting with
via email in March 2010. Burton, the voice of Brainiac in the companion “Superman” series (see the
BRBTV Report of interviews on that series for what Burton said about the show), has done just about
everything else in the world of voices, from classic radio drama to piles of Disney stuff and promo
announcements, and much more. On “Batman Beyond,” he was in “Rebirth: Part 2” as Vilmos Egan,
“Meltdown” as the barge captain, “Heroes” as General Norman, “Lost Soul” as the captain, “Armory” as
Istivan Hegendash, and “Unmasked” as Kobra Op 1. Earlier, on “The New Batman Adventures” Burton
voiced a cop and sports commentator in “Holiday Knights” and a strongman in “Animal Act.” Whew!
You’ve held onto that Brainiac role through several shows and quite a few years. What part of
yourself would you say comes through in your voice portrayal of Brainiac?
“I can relate to his certainty in scientific logic for successfully dealing with just about anything. I’m never
satisfied if I can’t somehow make logical sense of a situation or opinion. As the saying goes: ‘If it doesn’t
make sense, it’s not true’!”
I see you voiced Captain Marvel in “Superman/Batman: Public Enemies” animated feature. Very cool!
I was joyously surprised to see Shazam in that flick! Now there’s a sadly underused character! Was
there a certain direction you took for that voice?
“Just a good old-fashioned Radio Adventure serial characterization. There seems to be a natural return
to the heightened style of vocal delivery we all respond to in classic Golden Age entertainment. Vividly
rendered visual imagery returned to big screen storytelling in full force following several starkly
‘naturalistic’ years of grainy cinéma vérité style moviemaking, and I believe that vocal performance style
is at last trending back towards the more colorful and expressively textured delivery we similarly crave
in entertainment. I think the industry is finally realizing that you don’t need to limit vocal acting to a
restrained monotone for modern audiences to accept as legitimate characterization — and that
heightened expressiveness in both audio and visual elements will not be dismissed as ‘hokey’ if done
well.”
You are credited for “additional voices” for the “Public Enemies” movie. Do you recall what they
were?
“Not offhand. I haven’t actually seen it yet, and with the number of characterizations I generally perform
during any given week, it’s hard to clearly remember any specific roles once I’ve moved on to the next
few projects.”
You had a neat assortment of voice roles for the “Batman Beyond” series. What do you remember
about working on that show / working with that cast? How about “The New Batman Adventures”?
“They all blur together under the WB Animation ‘umbrella’ for me; but with an overall sense of having
worked with wonderful casts and fine material. Always a great time.”
You’ve done a WHOLE lot of Disney stuff. In fact, it’s a large chunk of your IMDb resume! What’s your
favorite Disney character?
“I have a hard time sorting out best and least favorites of any kind, but I can say Professor Ludwig Von
Drake always stood out as an especially entertaining and hilarious character; and though often a real
challenge, it can be a great joy to perform. Otherwise, if I had to pick from the classic animated shorts
‘stars,’ Goofy gave me the biggest laughs.”
What did you like to watch in animation, when you were growing up?
“I was a big fan of ‘The Flintstones,’ and even a bigger fan of ‘The Jetsons’ when quite young; later
becoming a Jay Ward devotee — especially enchanted with the superlative character voices in the
‘Rocky and Bullwinkle’ series (including ‘Fractured Fairy Tales’ and ‘Dudley Do-Right,’ of course!).
Naturally, like everyone else, Disney’s animated feature films were a major special event for me once or
twice a year, as well (long before home video made them available all the time).”
When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?
“Believe it or not, I knew I wanted to be involved with character voices, impressions, and announcing
since I first became aware of the art and craft of voices — around 4 years old. But it wasn’t until my
teenage years that I found out a career in off-camera voice work could actually be pursued as a way to
make a living, which immediately pushed any other notions for my future far into the background.”
I’ve heard you in many roles, from Tomax on “G.I.JOE” to Brainiac, to various characters on “Batman
Beyond,” to Red Tornado on “Batman: The Brave and the Bold.” Do you have any voice roles that
were particularly your favorites?
“Oh, I’ll always like Brainiac best among my WB roles. But I love all the old radio theatre-style characters
and announcers I’ve been given, as well. And it is a genuine honor to have played Batman’s ‘real-life
dad’ Thomas Wayne, for sure.”
What would be an ideal character for you to play if you were given the opportunity to voice him?
“I don’t know that I could ever narrow my sights down to an ultimate, ‘ideal.’ There have already been
several ‘dream’ characters for me over the years. The best for me are the old fashioned, the
intellectually villainous, and the super-seriously silly ones. But mostly it comes down to the written
words. When there’s a great voice on the page, the role is always effortless and hopefully very satisfying
to perform.”
Also see …
The author has also interviewed others involved in “Batman: The Animated Series” in her on-screen
work for the Comics Continuum TV show and website. See these links:
Bruce Timm at WonderCon, San Francisco, April 2011
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1104/04/brucetimm.htm
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1106/06/brucetimm.htm
Andrea Romano at WonderCon, San Francisco, April 2011, and at Comic-Con, San Diego, July 2010
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1105/28/andrearomano.htm
James Tucker, Comic-Con, San Diego, July 2010
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1007/24/tucker1.htm
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1007/24/tucker2.htm
Alan Burnett at WonderCon, San Francisco, April 2011
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1105/31/alanburnett.htm
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research into, classic television shows of the ’70s, ’80s and ‘90s.
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To contact Billie Rae Bates, email [email protected], and be sure to check out BillieRae.com.