Aquamist Installation and Performance Article

TT.net Article - Compiled by Willie Coffey
Aquamist Installation and Performance Article and GB info.
Posted by: nixit(NoFX)da][as on November 05, 2001 at 7:29 pm
This message has been viewed 39 times.
What is Aquamist, and what will it do for me?
Aquamist is an after market performance product that serves a multitude of purposes, all enhancing the drivability, performance, and response of our cars.
In essence;
1. You can run higher boost, higher timing advance or a combination of both. (Performance)
2. You clean the internals of your engine of all carbon deposits, filth, and sludge. (Drivability/response/efficiency). This aspect works exceptionally well.
3. Higher octane levels out of lower octane fuels (i.e.: 92 octane becomes roughly 95 while spraying water).
You can do more of your own research on the very technically informative Aquamist site; [ http://www.aquamist.co.uk/ ]
Disclaimer: The following pictures, text, and descriptions are how WE used the product. It in no way is the absolute correct or appropriate installation. We are
aware that there are items we would do different in the future. You are free to use this article as a guide, but not as written law. [Grain_of_salt=ON].
Purchased:...
I started by purchasing the Aquamist 2C kit. I chose the 2C kit due to the RPM based water delivery. The Aquamist 2C kit uses an ECU fuel injector signal to
control water delivery. I felt this would give us the proper amount of water at a specific RPM, which is considered a two-dimensional water mapping system.
Above: This picture above is the basic 2C kit.
Above: This picture above is some of the additional items that we purchased to install our kit. Some items shown are not used. Some others, we had to
order more than one of, or additional length of. Remember, we just played it by ear as we went, Learning what seems to work and what doesn't. I am 100%
convinced that no one has taken the Aquamist system as far, or to the extent that we have (more “grain of salt”)
Plumbing:...
Now we can discuss the basic plumbing schematic. This is essentially the same thing as on the Aquamist website, however we did quite a few things additional.
Above: Nothing much to say here...
The big difference is, we added some quick disconnects. This allows us to "bleed" the system of air, and the ability to change water injectors quickly. Any air in the
system will cause the system to fail and not be able to build water pressure correctly.
Install:...
The install of this kit is not easy, nor extremely difficult. It takes time, basic planning and some self-fabrication. Lets start with some pictures...
Above: This is the pump Install that I came up with.
Pump location is fairly critical and should drive the installation of the system. The pump needs to be below or even with the water supply. If the pump is higher than
the water supply, the pump may not be able to overcome gravity and provide enough water. We also need to put it in a location that allows cooling via incoming air.
This pump gets VERY VERY hot if it runs for more then 30 seconds or so. Maximum run time for the pump is one minute. Beyond that, pump damage will occur.
When finding a location for the pump, you also need to consider that the pump is fairly loud when active. I chose to mount the pump on the inside drivers frame rail
under the headlight bucket.
Above: This is a view looking from the front bumper towards the back of the car.
There really isn't much to discuss here. We plumbed the system more for function than for stealth ness. It just turned out to be a rather clean install. There is still
room for improvement. *The twin intake shown is neither included nor available through Aquamist or myself. This is one of the 300Degree prototype kits
(availability unknown).
Above: The Accumulator Installation
It is important for us to show the how we installed the accumulator. The accumulator is one of the largest physical parts of the install and very important to the
function of the Aquamist system. It is also the most difficult to install due to it's shape. We chose the stock intake tubes that run under the headlights. It will absorb
shock, yet provide plenty of support for its weight.
I meant to include pictures of where we installed our Aquamist water injectors, after all, that is key to the system. I took a set of custom-made intake hard pipes, and
drilled and tapped them to accept one injector in each intake pipe (2 pipes total). The proper thread tap for the injectors is included with the kit. We installed the
injectors about 6 inches from the throttle body butterfly plate. We plumbed it per the schematic diagram. I originally wanted to have custom hard pipes made up for
the pending group buy, but had many problems sourcing the mandrel bent tubing. But, in hindsight, hard pipes would not have been necessary.
Above: Damon built and installed some test lights...
Damon and I both felt it necessary for us to know what the system was doing at all times. There are two circuits that we need to watch. The first circuit controls the
charging of water, which builds the necessary 55psi. The second circuit controls the delivery of water into the air intake. We need to know when the pump is on. We
need to know when the injector/pressure switch is activated and delivering water to our intake. We also want to be able to control when it sprays water and when it
does not...sort of an override switch. That would allow us to A/B the system during tuning.
As Damon would say; "So I've got some LEDs and some resistors..."
Water Source:
For the water source, we chose to use the stock windshield washer tank. We simply took some tubing and Tee’d it into the washer nozzle feed lines. We found that
one draw back of 95 and newer Z's is there is no "low tank level" light. This can cause total Aquamist pump failure if left unattended.
One thing that needs to be tested is how well the pump will work when pulling water from the tank in the rear of some earlier model TTzs.
We did successfully determine that water could be pulled through the washer pumps with out problem. This would allow you to get a Tee from an auto parts or
hardware store to provide a water source for the pump. This makes the install much cleaner.
System overview;
Before we move onto the preliminary dyno results, we need to discuss how the system works...I'll try to just list them in simple steps.
1. With the key in, and the car on. Pump activates until the pressure manifold detects 55 psi has been reached. Pump stops.
The pump circuit is very simple. Basically, its ground, power, and a relay.
2. water injectors normally off.
3. while driving, you boost to 14.5psi. You have set the adjustable pressure switch to turn on at 12 psi. The adjustable pressure switch came pre-adjusted per my
requirements (12psi). You really want to set the switch to turn on before detonation usually occurs. Any earlier, and you spray water when it is not entirely
necessary. This will only use your water supply quicker.
The system, detecting you have reached 12psi+, completes a circuit. The circuit is inline with a fuel injector signal, which the Aquamist kit gets from your ECU. The
other item in the circuit is the high speed injector. The high speed injector cycles WITH the engine. As RPM rises, so does water flow.
4. As the water pressure in the system drops below 55psi, the pump turns on.
5. Boost drops to below 12psi, shutting off the high speed injector and water flow. The pump continues to charge the water system until it reaches 55psi.
So that's basically how the system works.
Tuning:…
We need to choose the correct injectors to meet the demand of our cars. We need to deliver as much water as possible with out hindering any performance gains.
To tune the injectors, we took several days to make heavy-footed runs on the freeways and service roads in our area. In between, making injector changes. We also
utilized a thermocouple to measure air intake temperature at the back of the plenum, by the balance tube.
Here are some links for you to look at that show our temperature reading results.
1. [ http://www.twinturbo.net/cgi-bin/ttnet_viewmsg.pl?forum=general&msg_id=301699 ]
2. [ http://www.twinturbo.net/cgi-bin/ttnet_viewmsg.pl?forum=general&msg_id=304037 ]
3. [ http://www.twinturbo.net/cgi-bin/ttnet_viewmsg.pl?forum=general&msg_id=305201 ]
4. [ http://www.twinturbo.net/cgi-bin/ttnet_viewmsg.pl?forum=general&msg_id=306460 ]
When tuning the car, we were told to continue increasing the injector size until we felt a stumble. When we feel the car stumble at full boost, we were to back the
injector down one size. The Injectors available are .4 to 1.0 mil. We maxed out at 1.0 mil (x2) and never met any stumble. If we were to continue tuning, we would
remove the 2 1.0 mils, and replace it with 2 .5 mils, and 2 .6 mils. This means, the pump would be driving 4 injectors (2 sets of 1.1 mil total). We would continue
increasing the size of the injectors until we met stumble. However, we chose to stop at 1.0 mil for various reasons (mainly time related).
This is all fine and well, but what do I use in my Aquamist system for fluid? There are basically two options. You can spray raw bottled water, or use common
windshield washer fluid. Windshield washer fluid gives you more cooling efficiency, but be certain that it is an alcohol to water mix of no more than 50/50. Using
standard washer fluid has two benefits. It prevents freezing in cold climates, which can destroy the pump. And it is readily available at a cost comparable to a
standard gallon of water. You also want to be sure that the fluid you chose have the least amount of additives. We chose one that contains water, 7% alcohol, 1%
glycol (for flavor), and coloring.
The Dyno Contest:…
Lets look at what mods have been done prior to this Aquamist install.
- Sonic Motorsport twin intake (aka “dual pop”)
- B&B 3" exhaust w/ dual 4.5" oval tips
- Primespeed 3" test pipes
- Gutted pre-cats
- U-R underdrive pulley
- JWT ECU
- Apexi AVC-R
- Apexi SAFC controlling dual MAF sensors
Please take special notice to the fact that we are running stock turbos, stock Intercoolers, and stock Injectors. These three items are significantly important in not
reaching our desired or expected goals.
Above: Baseline… Dyno.
The above dyno is a baseline run without water. The AVC-R is set for 1.05 bar, which is approximately 15.2 PSI. Timing is at 19degrees BTDC.
You can see that Damon spent some time on the dyno before our Aquamist installation, as he achieved a very nice fuel curve and a relatively smooth torque power
band. Some things to note on this chart; Max Torque is achieved at roughly 4,500 rpm. RWHP begins to level out at 5,200 rpm. 362 RWHP and 357 FtLbs is very
admirable.
Above: We then turned on the water…
We didn’t make a single change, all we did was turn on the water. We made this pass about 2 minutes after the first baseline run. I think we need to let the car sit for
a little longer.
You’ll notice first and foremost that the curves are MUCH smoother. You also need to take notice that while max RWHP is 20HP less, we are achieving an almost
identical chart, except the area under the torque is larger. Max Torque is being achieved at both 3,500 and 4,500 RPM now…take a good comparison look between
the above two dynos. Our max torque increased 8 lbs…there will be more increases as we make runs on the dyno.
Above: torque of the gods…
Hmm…that’s a bunch of torque, wouldn’t you say?. This is a second pass at 1.25 bar. (18.2) We were rather delighted by the torque number, as compared to our
baseline run. This represents a 50 ft/lb increase in torque.
Above: After 7 or so runs of tuning…
…we discovered something extremely important. See…our Z’s are pretty smart creatures. The ECU is self learning and requires a few ‘passes’ before it learns the
optimal settings for the car. We would change something minor, and for no apparent reason, our A/F ratio would go through the roof. These abnormal A/F Ratios
would lead to very undesired HP and Torque results. What we know we need to do now, is make a change…then make a pass or two to give the ECU a chance to
learn. After the ECU settles in, we can then make our “money” run.
The above chart is at 1.25 bar (18.2 psi). We didn’t let the car sit to cool very long on this run. We also noticed that we would gain very little HP with more PSI. We
attribute this to the stock intercoolers being very restrictive, and the turbos beginning to over spin. It very well could be associated with heat soaking as well.
The most important aspect though, is that we ran 1.25 bar and 18 degrees BTDC several times and never experienced the slightest hesitation or detonation. It made
very strong, smooth pulls. The outside temperature was roughly 92 degrees.
What We’d do Differently…
I think we need to have an aftermarket intercooler to help flow air.
I think we need to relocate the water injectors further upstream of incoming air, as close to the intercoolers as possible.
I think we need to take the time to add more injectors, to flow more water, as directed by our distributor.
Things you need to be aware of during your install.
- Water tank location. It varies from model years. Some tanks are located up front (Damon’s), some are located in the rear (Nixits). We have not tested the system on
tanks in the rear of the car. It should not be a problem, but we cannot say for certain.
- Some form of light indicator for low fluid level. We unfortunately found out that Damon’s car does not have a low washer fluid indicator. Mine (‘91) has a low
fluid indicator. If you run out of fluid, there is no safety switch to shut the system down. So the pump will continue to run. This of course will over heat the pump
and potentially destroy it. Luckily, Damon installed the light indicator / warning lamp and noticed the adverse condition prior to damage occurring.
The Group Buy…
The Group Buy kit is custom assembled for the TwinTurbo.net group buy. Damon and I determined what should be included in the kit, with the assistance of the
Aquamist Distributor. There is a minimum of 10 kits to get out Group Buy price. There are no other price breaks above 10 kits.
Here’s the contents;
- 1x 2c Kit
retail: $650.00 . . gb: $520.00
- 1x Accumulator
retail: $40.00 . . gb: $32.00
- 3x 4mm quick disconnet
retail: $26.75 . . gb: $21.00
- 1x "Y" connector
retail: $8.75 . . gb: $7.00
- 2x Check valve
retail: $28.00 . . gb: $22.40
- 3meters x 4mm line black
retail: $8.25 . . gb: $6.60
- 5meters x 6mm line black
retail: $16.25 . . gb: $13.00
- 3x extra jets
retail: $48.00 . . gb: $38.40
Totals:
Retail: $826.00 . . gb: $660.40
An additional discount of $40.00 brings the total group buy price to be $620.oo. This is over a $200.00 discount.
Your $620.oo includes ground UPS shipping in the United States. Additional shipping charges may apply to other countries. Contact Brad Schaffner for your
shipping requirements.
When placing your order, be prepared to tell Brad at what PSI you’d like for the water to start spraying. For our tests, we had Brad set the system to turn on at 12
PSI.
Also, you need to tell Brad what Injectors to include in your kit. You are allowed 3 sizes. I recommend .5 mil, .7 mil, and 1.0 mil. We were able to run 1.0 mil with
room for more. Other injectors are available at an additional cost.
But how do I order?!….
You can call;
Brad Schaffner at Kansas City Saab.
816-333-6582.
Let him know that you are ordering the twinturbo.net group buy kit.
It’d be nice if you’d send me an Email at ([email protected]) just confirming that you placed and order.
All your questions can be sent to me ([email protected]), or too Brad ([email protected])
And a final note from brad;
”I will not collect until I ship. I take Master Card,Visa, Discover and American Express. I would ask that they also Cc you when they put their name on the list so
that you can monitor the results.”
I’ve spent almost one year on getting this thing together, and can say for certain, that Brad at Kansas City Saab (our distributor for the GB) is one VERY stand up
guy. He helped Damon and I through all of our questions and concerns. He is also extremely knowledgeable with the product.
This document was composed by nixit(da][as) and edited by Dallas DamonZ
aim: nixit911
Follow Ups:
●
Aquamist Installation and Performance Article and GB info. - nixit(NoFX)da][as 19:29:36 11/05/01
❍ hummmm...looks awesome...sounds awesome - StEaMyZ(ZtoyZ.NET©) 21:26:23 11/05/01
■ good questions. - nixit(NoFX)da][as 22:12:22 11/05/01
■ Cool...thx...i did notice - StEaMyZ(ZtoyZ.NET©) 23:58:39 11/05/01
■ I'll see if I can dig up the RPM based dyno charts. - nixit(da][as) 10:14:00 11/06/01
❍ WOW, Great job guys !!! Quick Q inside >>> - George [Detroit] 21:32:02 11/05/01
■ Re: WOW, Great job guys !!! Quick Q inside >>> - nixit(NoFX)da][as 22:26:22 11/05/01
❍ great info, but where are my booby pics? hehe :oP - TAGURIT(NJ) 22:34:23 11/05/01
❍ Any thoughts on Aquamist for a NA? (n/m) - Adam A. 01:58:39 11/06/01
■ for what this kit is designed for, it has no use on an NA - nixit(da][as) 09:56:16 11/06/01
■ K, thanks for the writeup nixit. Very nice info. (n/m) - Adam A. 15:01:24 11/06/01
❍ Very nice, informative... - RSR 08:05:36 11/06/01
■ Awesome write-up.. but some Qs... - adamlotz (Z FIEND) 08:52:53 11/06/01
■ Re: Awesome write-up.. but some Qs... - nixit(da][as) 10:30:07 11/06/01
■ The group buy will be open until either December 1st or 7th - nixit(da][as) 09:57:49 11/06/01
❍ Oops 2 more things - adamlotz (Z FIEND) 09:00:20 11/06/01
■ Re: Oops 2 more things - nixit(da][as) 10:11:37 11/06/01
❍ Just FYI, my friend in Vancouver's been using Aquamist --> - Z-Jay (Edmonton) 11:07:53 11/06/01
■ cool, any tips about long term problems or side effects - cheezoto(now w/ boost) 13:45:24 11/06/01
■ I could ask. But AFAIK he hasn't had any problems with it. (n/m) - Z-Jay (Edmonton) 15:31:04 11/06/01
■ awesome, i just - cheezoto(now w/ boost) 15:45:00 11/06/01
■ both circumstances are completely impossible with the kit - nixit(da][as) 16:28:34 11/06/01
■ well couldent you run out of water and screw your - cheezoto(now w/ boost) 02:30:06 11/07/01
© www.TwinTurbo.NET 1998-2001 - all rights reserved
Member's Email Addresses
Nick Yovich [email protected]
Willie Coffey [email protected]
AFimportparts [email protected]
Bernard Hsiao [email protected]
Chris Chiu [email protected]
Dallas Damonz [email protected]
Erik Boehringer [email protected]
Mike Kelley [email protected]
Spongerider [email protected]
Tim Ready [email protected]
UneaZyRider [email protected]
Wesley J Strong [email protected]
Emails and Follow-up's
Nick:
Location Location Location.
The Pump:
The pump location needs to be as low as possible. This will help the pump be more efficient. It also needs airflow for cooling. I believe we chose the best location
as shown in the technical post.
You can do the same thing, by buying a piece of sheet metal (thicker the better). You can use the motor as a template. I was able to construct a basic bracket using a
drill, tin snips, and a file. It’s not pretty, and probably won’t be chromed, or polished, but it works exceedingly well.
Water Filter:
We learned this recently. (It can be found on Aquamist's website under FAQ) This needs to be as low as possible too, so you prevent air from building up in the
water filter. It also needs to be accessible so you can back flush it every 6 months or so.
Water Injectors:
We learned that we are just way too close to the throttle bodies. If I were to do it again, I’d take two approaches, both of them being “permanent”.
1st approach (recommended):
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
Remove the front fascia.
Remove the Intercoolers (stock or aftermarket).
Remove the Intercooler pipe, or at least get it accessible.
Stuff the intercooler side of the intercooler pipe with rags. Remember, we want to get the injectors as close to the intercoolers as possible, while still being
mildly accessible. Using rags will help contain metal shavings from the drilling process.
Proceed to drill. The provided tap is metric. I think I used a ¼” (.25 dia.) drill bit and hogged it out until I could get the tap to begin working. If you’ve never
used a tap, find a test subject like a Camaro fender. I used a pair of vice grips and VERY slowly worked the tap.
If you plan on installing two injectors to flow more water, drill and repeat. I’d recommend starting with one injector at first, but tapping for two. You can
plug it some conventional way, or I’d recommend using a unused injector. Just attach a short piece of tubing and drive a screw into the tubing to plug it. No
boost leaks, and you maintain the threads.
When locating your injectors, I’d recommend using a grease pencil and from the center section of the Z (air filter / elec. Fan), mark the area on the intercooler
piping that is most accessible.
It is also recommended by Aquamist that the injectors be located at the 4:30 or 7:30 positions when looking at a cross section of the pipe. This may be
difficult with this location, but keep it at least horizontal.
2nd approach:
1. If you have after market intercoolers, you can place the injector in the intercooler end tank. (I don’t believe the stock plastic end tanks would be
appropriate, but that’s at your discretion)
2.
Remove the front fascia.
3. Remove the Intercoolers.
4. Take them to the work bench, and stuff the ends with rags. More on the end that will be drilled. Remember, we’re trying to capture all the drill shavings.
5. The ONLY problem with this, is during testing it will be a pain to swap injectors. To do this, I’d recommend leaving the bottom motor covers off. With
the quick turn of a screw driver or wrench, you can have access to the injectors.
6. Also keep in mind, that once it’s installed, It’s pretty much a fire and forget system.
Tee for water tank.
You’ll notice in the technical document “inventory pics”, there is a tank bung. This was initially intended to be used to tap into the existing windshield washer tank.
I tried it, and it didn’t work at all. One tank = Scrapped.
Instead, Damon went to an auto parts store and bought a series of Vacuum Tees. He teed into one of the windshield washer nozzle feed hose (doesn’t matter which).
The Aquamist system will pull water through the pump just fine, maintaining the stock function of your windshield washing system.
Spongerider:
Howzit!
I've got a quick question about the wiring off the pressure manifold and the high speed solenoid. It looks like its RPM controlled but I'm not sure where exactly to tap
the wires into the system? Where exactly did you wire into the ECU? I assume we're talking about the car's ECU, because the kit didn't come with an aftermarket
ECU of any kind. Can you let me know if I need another ECU of some sort? I'm just a bit confused about what signals I'm supposed to use. Also, I don't see where
the pressure switch hooks up. I'm thinking that it kind of works like an system arming switch. Does it just tee off a vacuum line and act as an inline switch for the
electrical side of the system?
LaterZ..
Nick:
I'm sorry for the late reply. I usually can't get to my email here at work. PS, I'm sending this to the Aquamist list...
First, Damon became the electrical expert on this deal. However, *once understood* the electrical side is actually fairly easy.
We are actually using our stock Nissan (or JWT) ecu to control the High Speed injector and flow of water. Aquamist considers this an aftermarket ECU, since they do
not provide it.
There are TWO circuits in the system;
One circuit controls the pump [pump] and the water pressure [pressure manifold]. And...
One circuit controls the High Speed valve [HSvalve] and the pressure switch [pressure switch]
We'll take a look at the pump system first, since this is the easiest and transparent to the cars electrical system.
All you need to make this system work is *switched power and ground. I believe we chose to use the *switched power from the adjustable shock connector(s). We
chose a common ground.
(I can try and decipher a schematic in AutoCad later today.) The schematic that is shown on the Aquamist website is very accurate.
For a verbal schematic, there are three items that we require to make the pump system complete.
1 relay.
1 pump.
1 pressure manifold
The relay is installed as a common relay. switch power in, ground out, 12v power in / out (direct from battery).
12v power is then fed to the pressure manifold (in / out), then to the pump.
so, when the car is switched on (12v switched on), the relay trips, providing 12 battery volts to the pressure switch. If there is not enough pressure, the pressure
switch provides 12 volts to the pump, which begins pumping.
Once you get this installed, tested, and functional, we'll go over the installation of some diagnostic lights.
(I'll see if I can get that schematic knocked out)
The second circuit is for the HSValve operation. This one is essentially the same, however, there is not a Aquamist supplied harness. So you get to wire it all
yourself.
there are only two parts to this circuit;
1 pressure switch (vacuum/boost)
1 HSvalve
This series circuit needs power and ground. We get ground from Injector harness and we get power from the injector harness. Recall that an injector is basically a two
wire series circuit (much like a light bulb). Once the circuit is complete (every 4th RPM), the "light" turns on. This is the power we want to get.
Damon chose to pull his right from the ECU (pins 60 and 61 I *THINK...use your manual to research this). I will grab mine right from the harness since I have
already spliced in new injector connectors (what a royal pita).
so, we have power(+) and ground, but we need the rest of the loop.
So, from the power(+) side, we have the pressure switch. This functions as a "light" switch. When the preset boost is set (I think 12 psi for most of you guys), then
the "light" is turned on. This switch consists of two leads. power and ground.
From there, we move on to the high speed valve. Just like a "light bulb", we have power and ground wires. We hook up the one wire from the pressure switch to the
power in lead of the High Speed Valve. And from there, the ground wire of the high speed valve goes to the ground side of the injector harness.
I'm sure this is all very confusing (it was to write it), but once you understand the circuits, it's very simple. I'll provide a schematic as soon as possible (day or two
max).
I think the wiring is easily the most difficult part of this install. The understanding of relays and soldering is pretty important.
Nick:
Something to note [maybe];
Racelogic requires that you splice into your harnesses injector wires. That's how the system works, by cutting fuel injector signals. This will effect Aquamist (how
much, I don't know). My opinion is that it will not effect it dramatically, but you will reduce maximum cooling.
Then the argument grows. The fact is, if you're not injecting fuel, do you really want to inject water?....I don't know...any thoughts on Aquamist and racelogic? Do
we want to get signal before RaceLogic cuts signal, or after?
Erik:
Personally I would say before. The need for extra boost (or detonation control) during traction control wouldn't make sense. The traction control's main purpose is to
keep traction. I would think that the system should be shut off when the traction control cuts the injector signal. That's just my personal opinion. What benefit would
it be to have Aquamist running during traction control?
Mike:
Do I want to inject fuel even though water is not being injected?
Yes.
Let's break it down real fast We're cutting the fuel because the rear tires are spinning a % faster than the fronts - we're cutting fuel, to reduce torque, in tiny bursts, to keep the car planted.
All of the engine dynamics are still occurring - Turbos are still spinning, compressing air, producing hot gas. The throttle bodies are still open, letting this hot,
compressed air, into the motor. The exhaust valves open, letting it back out of the motor. The fact that the motor is still a heat exchanger exists - if the said air is
cooler, denser, I have to say that we are not in fact reducing Aquamist's abilities - If anything, we're potentially increasing it. Those of you that are "into" turbos,
know, a critical part of turbo setup is backpressure, the reason is, a turbo with high backpressure forces hot air UP the exhaust valves, "heat soaking" the motor, which
is why poor setups such as a restricted "T28" or mating a too low of A/R exhaust housing to a large, laggy compressor wheel can make the entire motor performance
degrade significantly after XX PSI.
My personal opinion is, let the Aquamist work on the motor while this is occurring, too. As long as we're not using enough water to interfere with lubrication of the
rings (very doubtful), we're cooling the combustion chamber very well since there is no boom happening that cycle. "hydrolock" is null with a water injection system
like Aquamist - hydrolock is caused by so much liquid in the cylinder, compression is impossible.
That's just my 2 cents.. Open for ridicule. :)
'MikeeZ'
Wes:
Did you and Damon not run into this problem? I thought he had TC. Did you not run it together? Damn....figured that was already taken care of :(
--wes
Nick:
Thanks for using "reply to All".
We were running water with the ECU injection signal, Before Racelogic got it's hands on the signal. So in effect, we were spraying water despite the racelogic signal
modifications. We never incurred any problems at all.
Remember, this is the first known 'public' install of Aquamist on a Z. There will be other refinements along the way.
Nick:
>Personally I would say before. The need for extra boost (order control) during traction control wouldn't make sense. The traction control's main purpose is to keep
>traction. I would think that the system should be shut off when the traction control cuts the injector signal. That's just my personal opinion. What benefit would it be
to >have Aquamist running during traction control?
I think Mike Kelley's post makes it an open and shut case. An extra 1/10 second of cooling couldn't hurt anything at all. I was concerned of what may happen when
trying to ignite compressed hot water (not that water can combust). I don't understand those physics, but I do know that the spark plug still fires, the water still gets in
there, but there is no fuel to go with it.
I also realized that we are spraying water so far away from the cylinders, that cutting water for ONE cylinder will surely effect the other cylinders since the water
needs to travel the entire intake path. We are not direct injecting water like fuel.
It looks like we need to splice in after the ECU, but before the RaceLogic traction control. :)
Thanks fellas....
Bernie:
I agree... I'm going to splice mine in between the ECU and Racelogic unit.
Bernie
Damon:
You definitely want the AQM in FRONT of the RLTC. The RLTC effects individual cylinders depending on the cut pattern being used. The AQM effects 3 cylinders
at a time.. even worse would be this... distance over time. Cylinder 6 gets cut by RLTC, so AQM would pulse out too... the air charge coming in at that time won't get
water. That air charge might end up in cylinder 4 which is firing (distance over time, probably not accurate on where things end up) since it's a constant flow. And if
you
drive like I do, then you're asking for trouble when that cylinder fires w/o water in there...
Nick:
If you plan to use the rear washer fluid tank as your water source, You may have issues getting the line to the pump.
This picture is looking from the drivers side muffler forward and outboard.
I lowered my Exhaust and drilled a 1/2" hole. (yes, that's original Nissan factory dirt under there).
You'll want to Tee into one of the clear tubes coming off of the pumps (preferably the rear one). There is already a splice about 8" from the pump that you can see
(where the clear tube turns to black). This may be an ideal location for a splice.
You may also want to drill a 1/2" hole in the top of the tank or in the flexible filler tube. Route your Aquamist tubing through, and down into the tank, there. The
only negative is you'll have to pull water uphill, and then back down hill. And you cannot control where the final resting point of the tubing end is in the tank.
Damon thought it best to keep our tie in as low as possible to prevent any priming issues. We later learned that either way you choose to get your water, priming can
be an issue (just don't run out of water).
I hope this isn't confusing, as it's early for me...Just trying to help everyone see the possibilities with the install...
Spongerider:
Howzit!
I was thinking of Ting off near the battery to get the windshield fluid, is that a bad idea? Anyone?
LaterZ....and thanks.
Mike:
Heya.
No idea, but a different thought - I'm thinking about relocating the battery to the trunk and constructing a tank to go in the battery's place. Would any of you want to
assist and make a few tanks, or have I pretty much completely lost my mind? :)
Later.
Nick:
The proper drill size for tapping the M8x0.75 thread is a 9/32 drill bit, the minor diameter of the M8 thread is .2875 diameter (English Units). 9/32 drill bit gets us
closest with a .2812 diameter (English Units).
Nick:
Here's the electrical schematic...I'm 99% certain that this is correct, perhaps Damon will make suggestions if need be...
let me know if the pic doesn't open up...or if you have questions...ok, lata's.
-Nicholas...
Landscape View of the Electrical Schematic
Nick:
Look at the bottom of this page.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/preview.html
This is very similar to what we were doing for monitoring. I think adding a pump on-off 'fail safe' switch is important. If you see the pump is on for way too long,
you can shut it off to diagnose what the fault is. While purchasing the monitor unit may not be in your plans, having an idea of application integration is important.
You know, seeing what other peeps are doing. Also keep in mind that they are showing a 1s system. So take into account that they have a manifold vacuum switch,
whereas we don't.
Has anyone made any progress on their install?
(reply to all please)
regards
-'harmless' Nicholas
Nick:
Hi fellas (and Wes)
I made quite a bit of progress with my Aquamist install Sunday.
I drilled and tapped my intercoolers. Not too easy, but not too hard. Took me about 3 or 4 hours from taking the fascia off to reinstalling the fascia.
I ran all the plumbing.
Something to note. While removing my intercoolers, I noticed that there is an auxiliary windshield washer pump in the front passenger fender, behind the intercooler,
up high. The tank in the rear has two pumps inside the tank. So the pump in the tank must prime the washer pump up front. If you'd like to tap into this location, it
may save some plumbing time since it's very close to the front of the car. However, I chose not to use this location for reasons I'll try and explain tomorrow.
I started electrical, until... I broke my High Speed valve. So this is just a fair weather warning...the pig tail coming off the high speed valve is pretty weak. The two
wire
connector broke inside or right at the high speed injector body. I'm calling Brad this morning to order a replacement and explain how/why it broke. Maybe they can
change the design of that, or at least add some strain relief.
For those running stock turbos and needing to spray 2 injectors per side, be sure to order two additional "Y" connectors. I need to get those as well and some more
jets.
I'll be trying to submit several pictures of everything worth mentioning.
Nicholas.
Aquamist whore.
Spongerider:
Howzit!
I'm just about finished with my install. I started to install my jets into the IC's but I leant my tap to a friend and couldn't finish the job. And I was thinking about
tapping into that auxiliary windshield washer pump too. But I was thinking it was used for the Euro and Canada spec Z for washing their head lights? Also did
anyone else mount their pump in a different location other then what Nick posted?
Nick thanks for the heads up on the HS valve, I'll be careful.
LaterZ...
Spongerider....
Nick:
I took pictures on how I tapped my intercoolers and how I kept debris into the IC to a minimum. Locating the injectors is tough on my HKS intercoolers. The jets are
completely inaccessible and will NOT work on the front of the IC. So I tapped into the back of the end tank. This you need to check fit the location of the IC/Jets to
the car. I found a few small interferences to be aware of on the drivers side (metal carbon canister lines).
I'll post pics them tomorrow...
Mike Kelley:
I'm waiting on my motor.
I actually have no idea how I'm going to install mine at this time - I don't think I want to drill the end tanks on the fmic, so its probably going to be in a fabbed pipe
Nick:
I finally found someone who is real good at mandrel bending. They are expensive. We use them for all our aircraft potable water/wastewater plumbing systems.
I contacted them about my pipes I want and they seemed rather helpful and informative.
http://www.mundo-tech.com/
fayettville arkansas.
Nick:
here's how I tapped into the water tank. It was easy. I then ran the 6mm line up along the brake lines into the front center section.
Chris Chiu:
I'm almost done rebuilding my engine, then I have tranny issues to deal with. I'll start within the next month or so. Thinking of tapping the jets about a foot up into the
hardpipe coming out of the intercooler. Similar to where SCC installed it on there Z.
Spongerider:
Howzit!
Did you tap into the out side, outlet on the intercooler? Meaning if you were to look at the drivers side IC from the front of the Z the pipe on coming off the far right
would be the one to tap into right?
LaterZ..
Spongerider....
Nick:
OH NO. If you spray water BEFORE the intercooler, you drop the effect of the intercoolers...and you drop the effect of the Aquamist, since most will end up on the
intercooler inner tubing.
When looking at the **Drivers Side** intercooler (looking from the front of the car towards the back), as installed in the car, you cannot see the water jets. they are
on the outside (right), closest to the fenders. They are also as close to the intercooler outlet pipe as possible. So, the left and right intercoolers are not drilled in the
exact same spot, but are in similar locations.
If you'd like more clarity on why it's best to spray AFTER the intercooler, versus before the intercooler, call Brad at KC Imports. He was telling me you loose a
significant amount of potential to cool, and will actually decrease the efficiency of your intercoolers as well... He also told me that they have had best results spraying
right after the
intercooler versus where Damon and I placed ours. So I'm expecting even better results with the location I chose. With the jets too close to the TB, you don't give the
water as much time to of turn to a vapor/steam (steam = water taking on latent heat).
Once I return from snowboarding (in about a month), I will be doing a full DYNO tune with the system...So I'll provide the list and TT.net with a complete update.
-Nicholas
Bernard Hsiao:
Hi, guys. I'm about to get started with my install and had a couple of questions...
1) Nixit, why did you tap into the water tank through the top of the tank? You said something about how the bottom bung didn't work, but I don't remember if you
specified why. I would think that tapping into the lowest point would be safest as you could get every last drop out before sucking air by accident. The low fluid
sensor is all the way at the bottom of the tank, so if your hose was a few inches off the bottom, you may be sucking air before your warning light goes on. The only
problem I see to this is making sure that the tapped area is properly sealed... but I'm sure a gob of silicone sealant would work just fine.
2) Has anyone considered putting in the front mount tank that is standard on the 2+2 models? I wonder if it would actually fit or if there's something in the way in the
2-seater models? I just thought it may be beneficial to have a shorter distance to suck all the water through rather than the whole length of the car.
Bernie
Spongerider:
Howzit!
1) You have a very good point about the sensor at the bottom next to the pump. But I think he did it that way cause it's less restrictive? I would think.
2) What tank on a 2+2, I have never seen or heard of it? If it's possible, I would like to tap into that tank instead.
LaterZ...
Spongerider....
Bernard Hsiao:
I think it's for Canadian/European models with headlamp washers. They have both the tank and motor up front, but somebody on this list said we have only an extra
motor up front.
Bernie
Spongerider:
Howzit!
I've seen it. Is it the one located near under the right side head light. I will take a pic of it tonight but I but I don't see where the extra tank would fit.
LaterZ..
Spongerider....
Nick:
1) There's a few points that need to be made here.
If we picked up the existing washer tank tubing/plumbing by using a vacuum tee inline, we restrict the water even more. The benefit of using a tee here is priming the
pump will be somewhat easier. The benefit of using a tee here is that you can rely on your dash board low level indicator (if one exists) with out question.
I chose the top of the tank to allow great water flow. Remember, we are exceeding Aquamist's own length maximums for "tank to pump" runs. I chose the top of the
tank because due to ease of install. I ensured that the length of tubing that went into the tank was the maximum amount needed to pick up *near* the bottom. I also
chiseled the tubing at the end to ensure it wouldn't get vacuum adhered to the bottom of the tank.
regarding the use of silicon? Good luck. That stuff just will not adhere to the plastic tank. Especially if any washer fluid solution gets in contact with it. I've been
there. And ZXParts (Russell) sent me a new washer tank ($25.00 fwiw).
2) Very good idea. However you would still need to hook up a low level sensor.
Willie:
Maybe I missed this, but I remembered someone mentioning tapping the washer nozzle lines up front, and being able to suck the washer fluid through the washer
pump. I don't remember anyone saying this was a bad idea, but everyone is talking about tapping back at the tank again.
Anyone, anyone?
Willie
Uneasyrider:
Yep, mentioned in some tech dealy somewhere's.
Paul = weezy rider
Nick:
Nope, you haven't missed anything. On Damon's car, the washer fluid tank is ONLY in the front passenger side fender, just behind the intercoolers. He chose to TEE
into the existing washer lines with vacuum Tees. The pumps allow us to pull water through. We didn't experience any known adverse effects. However, I think this
worked ok only because the supply line to the pump was a mere 3 feet, versus 10-12 feet to the rear pump. Each foot of plumbing adds additional friction to the water
flow.
I chose the rear tank because I don't have a front tank. I also had the option to tap into the secondary pump in the front passenger fender well behind the intercoolers.
I didn't think pulling water through TWO pumps would be very efficient.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Bernard Hsiao:
So, if the tank is behind the passenger intercooler in Damon's car, then is it blocking much airflow through the intercooler (a la radiator overflow tank on driver's
side)?
I think to be super anal and safe, it would be best to use the provided Aquamist hose all the way to the tank rather than teeing into existing lines. The existing lines
are soft, so if the velocity of the water/pull of the Aquamist pump is too great, it may collapse on itself (pure conjecture here on my part). However, the Aquamist
tubing is rigid so
this would not happen. I think I'm going to try getting the front tank going (assuming it doesn't block intercooler flow)... and rigging up a low water sensor into it as
well.
Bernie
Nick:
I have a spare tank sensor somewhere if you like. The stock low level switch is rather large at about 1" in diameter and 3" long. If you buy a spare tank from Russell,
it will have this sensor in there.
Damon's car (tank in front) does not have the low level switch due to it's size and the shape of the front tank.
As for the size and shape of the tank, it has a peculiar shape. It does block the intercooler flow, however, we have close wheel well skirts, so it's essentially fine that
way. There is ducting on your under car lower covers. This ducting creates a vacuum that sucks the air out from behind the intercooler. For that reason, our
intercoolers are still somewhat effective even with carbon canisters/over flow tanks/ and washer fluid tanks filling that gap.
Bernard Hsiao:
This is true... but I believe only for our cars, Nixit. Didn't the later model Z's do away with this ducting? Another question I have is does Damon's car has hydraulic
or electric HICAS? I'm thinking that maybe the fill cap goes where the hydraulic HICAS lines are (which is why they were able to use front mounted tanks when
HICAS was converted to the electric type)... I could be wrong. Anybody have a picture of the front mounted tank?
Another possibility I was thinking of was using large diameter tubing... maybe an inch or more inner diameter to route water most of the way from the REAR tank to
the front. Then, using just a short length of the small diameter Aquamist tubing connected to the large diameter tubing. This way, there is less flow resistance of
water from the tank than using the small Aquamist tubing for more than the recommended maximum length. An additional benefit of this is that if the you use say 8
feet of a 1" inner
diameter tubing, that would effectively increase the water capacity of the system by a little more than a liter. The problem with this is I'd have to epoxy some sort of
bung onto the bottom of the tank or something.
Bernie
Spongerider:
Howzit!
Here are some pics that I thought I would share will you guys. Also is that the pump you guys are talking about in the first pic? I also talked to Greg Dupree about
which end of the IC I should put the jets in and he told me the outside one. I also check it with the old tie a sting to a nut trick to see where it would pop out. :)
LaterZ..
Spongerider....
Nick:
nice looking jet install. I feel silly that I messed that up, but hey, it happens.
Regarding that pump, yes, that is the pump I was referring to. It seems to me that it is used for the hood washer nozzles. (as I tugged on the output lines, they hood
lines moved).
Willie:
I don't recall this link being posted on the list before, but it runs through installing the front water tank for external IC spray. I figured that it kind of relates so here
we go....
http://216.119.125.120/forum/tech/icspray1.htm
It's from AUS, so remember that they drive right-handed cars.
I will include this write-up (plus a few corrections from older posts) to the next PDF, and the last series of emails sometime next week when I return from Coronado.
Willie
Damon:
I'd forgotten all about that page.
The front tank they added is the same as in my '95 (dual pump, etc)... so I guess you can get the filler neck up on the fender well with the 90-93 hydraulic HICAS.
Still would be cool to get some sort of auto prime system in place (my reservoir has no low idiot light on it). I ran mine dry a couple times. Also, there's no
'measuring' stick on the filler neck per se (that flimsy ribbon thingy). I took the fender liner out on the front side so I could see the tank. My car is not daily driven, or
driven in the rain, so it
wasn't a big deal. If I had to daily drive it, I'd router out a small inspection slot in the liner to see the tank through it.
Damon
Bernard Hsiao:
Good find on the tank install! I guess it should be no problem then to install the front tank... I kind of wonder if there will be enough clearance with my Stillen
intercoolers though.
I was perusing Aquamist's site and they said that 11.5 feet was the maximum distance from tank to pump recommended. Now, If I mount my pump in the driver's
fender, where the AIV crap used to be, that should be under the 11.5 feet, right? So maybe I will simply tap into the rear tank if that's the case. I didn't notice any
maximum recommended distance from the pump to the jets though... would this be too far?
Bernie
Willie:
My theory:
The pump should be as close to the jets as possible.
Facts:
Water doesn't compress
The delivery tubing is fairly rigid and shouldn't expand
The jets could leak (into the IC) and leave air between pump and jets (not sure how likely)
If the tubing between the pump and jets does leak (into the IC) and allows air in, you should get water to the jets faster. If you mount the pump off center, I'd make
sure that the delivery hose lengths are exactly the same so that the water sprays on both side at the exact same time.
Since water doesn't compress, the compression ratio in the cylinders will be slightly raised while injection occurs. Normally this is not good, but the cooling effects
are supposed to greatly outweigh it. If one side is getting water while the other is not, would it have a negative effect on performance?
The Stillen IC's (which I have as well) seem to extend forward (towards the front bumper cover) from the same plane that the OEM are mounted, so rear clearance
shouldn't be an issue. You may have noted this if you have installed the newer style clear corners.
Another idea:
What if you were to install the front tank and connect the AQ pump to it. Put a low level switch in it to turn on (when the water level gets too low) and refill itself
with the contents of the rear tank. That way you could fill both up and have1.5-2 gallons of water to mist.
Willie
Nick:
Good point. Speaking of leaks...
While playing around with the kit while on Damon's car, we ran into something pretty uncool. With the car in the "on" position and the engine OFF, we had mild
water
leakage out of the jets themselves. pump would come on every minute or two. The water would drip at a rate of about 1 small drop per 15-30 seconds. The pump
would then come on to charge the lines as pressure drops. Apparently, the high speed valve was allowing 'blow by'.
So those with car stereos who like to play it with the car in the OFF position, you may want to wire in a manual override switch.
In general, I doubt this would be a problem for most of us.
Bernard Hsiao:
OK, the issue about air in the line between the water jets and the pump and the link to the IC water spray gave me a nifty idea. This is what I'm going to try...
I'm going to convert the Aquamist system into a dual purpose water injection/intercooler sprayer unit. I'm going to have a 2 way valve right before the jet so that I
can have the pump either spray the intercoolers (and in doing so, "purge" all the air out of the hose) or inject water into the intake. I was thinking about wiring it up to
a momentary push button which both activated the 2 way valve to divert water to the intercoolers AND turned on the pump.
So the sequence would go: 1) push button, 2) valve and pump turn on, 3) air is purged from line as intercoolers get sprayed, 4) release button, 5) valve and pump turn
off, 6) floor the gas, 7) Aquamist injects water into intake. So, even if there's air in the lines, it wouldn't matter if unequal amounts of water hit the intercoolers.
Then, it'd be all primed and ready to go for the run.
This got me thinking even more that I should also set it up so my NOS purge hits the intercoolers in conjunction with the water... it'd be like my intercoolers feel like
they're driving at the North Pole!
Now, the issue is finding an appropriate 2 way valve. I'll probably use a solenoid valve from www.gcvalves.com. Anybody have any other sources for industrial type
valves?
Bernie
Willie:
Installing the water bottle
The following is not so much step by step instructions on how to do this, but more an example of how someone else has done it and may give you
some ideas. There are a million ways to do this with a number of factors determining how you might do it.
For starters, since I have a 2-seater I have the free space to use the 2+2 water bottle and pumps as my IC spray reservoir. If you have a 2+2TT or
want to use something else then there are other ways to go about it, but I found this to be the best solution as it efficiently utilizes what meager space
is left in the Z engine bay, and ( I thought this would be useful at the time) it has 2 pumps. The other assumption this article has is that you still have
the stock front bar, which makes mounting the nozzles easier.
First, remove the front bar. How to do this is detailed here
With the front removed you will have access to the intercoolers (red in the pic above) to somehow mount your nozzles, and you will also be able to
remove the driver's side IC (J-spec car) so you can put the 2+2 water bottle in there.
Installing the water bottle.
The 2+2 water bottle is designed to fit in behind the driver's (J-spec) side intercooler and has a funnel which goes up into the engine bay and is tucked
into the corner next to the (hydraulic) HICAS unit. It is a triangular shape to maximize use of the space as much as possible, and although sitting right
behind the intercooler it reduces flow through the IC's, it can't be too disastrous as this was the setup on 2+2TTs from the factory. The other downside
to it's location is that it will probably get warm air flowing over it, raising the temperature of the water slightly. It also has two pumps located at the front,
which means that at high acceleration the water is going to slosh back when low, making the pumps suck air. All this means is that it can't run till
completely empty. Nothing's perfect :-).
To remove the IC you will first need to remove the rubber duct which feed air to the IC. The square duct is held on by 4 10mm bolts shown by the
green arrows in the picture below. With the duct out of the way you can remove the bolts which secure the intercooler in place. There are 3 (indicated
by yellow) which you need to remove. Then it's a case of loosening the two hose clamps and pulling out the intercooler.
What you will be left with is a nice big area of nothing (looks so out of place with the Z really :) where the water bottle will fit. I've also removed the
bracket the intercooler was connected to (two screws) so I have a little more room.
Next, put the funnel for the bottle in place. The hole where it runs through is just in front of the HICAS unit (my headlights have been removed in this
pic as it was a good opportunity to get them cleaned, however it's not necessary).
Don't screw the funnel in place just yet, as there is a lot of moving and wriggling to get the funnel to connect properly to the water bottle. Once
everything is in place and secure you can screw the top of the funnel (there will already be screw holes in the panels) in place.
Putting the bottle in place can be difficult, but removing the lower intercooler pipe makes it easier. There are holes to secure the bottle in place
however you would have to remove the wheel, most of the wheel well lining and a whole lot of other bits and pieces which frankly I couldn't be stuffed
doing. I used some wire to tie it all up and it's pretty secure. Remember that with the IC back in place there would only be a few centimeters of play
even if it were just sitting there freely. With the bottle attached to the funnel (push it down and the rubber seal should do the rest) you are ready to
attach tubing and wiring to the pumps. There is also a low level detector which I've wired up and will decide what to do with it later. With the problem of
water sloshing backwards under acceleration I mentioned before, if you get to the point where the low level indicator is coming on the pumps have
been sucking air for quite a while.
With the bottle in place and the water pumps plumbed (to something.... we'll discuss that in a sec) and the wiring also connected at the pump end you
are ready to put everything back in place. It's simply a case of reversing the order in which it was all pulled apart.
You can see here everything connected up. I have used 90 degree elbow joints (from a gardening reticulation system) off the pumps to prevent kinking
the hoses in a sharp turn. I've fed them to the front middle of the car where I'll worry about what to do with them later. Also note that the location of the
pumps means they are possibly going to have water spraying onto them (they sit right behind the IC) so make sure there is no chance of a short when
water gets in the wrong places.
As you can see, it's a tight fit but the tubing does fit behind the IC without too much hassle.
Almost done.... just need to put the bracket in place and reattach the IC to the mounting brackets, then put the feeding duct back on.
Next, we'll worry about what we are going to do with the end of that tubing.
With the water bottle in place and some tubes running off the pumps, the next step is to decide what to do with the water flow.
Obviously you are going to want to point some sort of spray nozzle at the intercooler. I tried a wide variety of nozzles, mostly gardening style stuff, but
there was no fine misting or atomization of water, just a spray of droplets. Calling up a custom nozzle place was the way to go (looked up nozzles in
the Yellow pages) and they provided me with a nozzle which came in a very fine mist (nozzle on the right in the pic below). In fact, just by chance the
guy I spoke to was a car nut and had sold a number of these nozzles to WRX and EVO owners so he knew exactly what I was after.
Some of the nozzles I tried:
The misting was so fine that in fact you can hardly see it in this pic (also thanks to the fact that the camera insisted on focusing on the ground :)
However, the fine mist also meant that there was very little water being consumed, so I will probably use 2 nozzles per intercooler (they are about
A$4.50 each). However, the low flow was causing other problems. The pumps were overheating. Big time. About 2 minutes of use and the pump was
so hot I could not touch it. Being designed for the window washer they are not up to prolonged use. Also, the high pressure as a result of the nozzles
was probably not helping.... with nothing attached one pump can empty the bottle in about 45 seconds, whereas with one nozzle flow is about 200mL
per minute. To reduce pressure, a by pass system was developed, which looked something like this:
The pressure valve is just to prevent water seeping out of the nozzles when turned off. It only allows water to flow through if over a certain pressure
and is the same part used with the window washers from Nissan, part number 28628-11C00. The tap can be used to control pressure to the nozzles.
When the tap is fully closed, all water from the pump goes to the nozzles, meaning quite high pressure in the system. With the tap open, pressure from
the water trying to go through the nozzles means the majority of the water bypasses the nozzles and flows back into the water bottle. I found that in
fact a tap is not necessary and with just a T-piece going back to the bottle there was sufficient pressure for the nozzles while enough is still flowing
back into the bottle, thus reducing pressure and taking some load off the pump. However, testing showed that the pump was still getting too hot after a
few minutes of constant use. Solutions? It depends on how the spray is triggered.... if using a boost activated switch, the pump will not always be
turned on, meaning there is sufficient "off" time to cool down during braking, cornering etc. Alternately, a more heavy duty pump can be added later
down the line, or some sort of pulsing can be used to give the pump rest periods. For example an indicator relay could be used so the spray is on for a
second, off for a second, on for a second, and so on. This might also give the water time to evaporate in between sprays if too much water is being
used.
Testing with the bypass:
A side effect of all this is that having two pumps is not the benefit I once thought it was. I envisioned a more exotic system with perhaps one pump per
intercooler, or the two pumps somehow inline so that you have a high/low switch. However, since one pump is more than capable of producing the
pressure necessary for the whole system, the second is unnecessary. I might consider using it to spray water onto the oil cooler or something in the
future as I could have that on a separate switch.
Next, mounting the nozzles.
With the bottle in place, some sort of solution to prevent pump overheating, the next step is to point the nozzles at the intercoolers. There are a few
ways of doing this, with the nozzles either being in front of the intercooler spraying onto it, or sitting at the edge spraying across. There is no perfect
position, however. What might get good water coverage over the intercooler at stationary or low speeds might not work well at high speed. Air rushing
over the nozzle at 200kph may push the water spray onto the IC instantly, thus making the effective water coverage almost nothing.
I chose to mount the nozzles as far forward as possible for two reasons. Firstly. the more time the water is in the air the more chance it has to
evaporate before hitting the IC, and because with a stock front bumper it is quite easy. If you have an aftermarket front you may wish to have the
nozzles sticking out of the rubber vents with an elbow piece to point the nozzles at the IC. I put the basic ideas together before connecting it in place
on the bumper. This is the two nozzles for one IC (a T-piece and elbow joint) and the white object to the right is the valve which prevents leakage when
not in operation.
I was able to attach them to the intercooler slits (see why a stock front is useful?) by drilling a small hole and cable ties. They are held on pretty tight
and shouldn't get bumped around and end up pointing in the wrong direction.
The front's ready to go back on now I reckon.
Just a quick test before it all goes back together.... yep it's spraying water.
The final setup. Unless you crouch down and look closely you'd never spot them, and the holes I drilled are inconspicuous enough should you want to
remove the spray in the future.
See how the inner nozzle is pointing at the rubber vent? Bad Ben! Bad! When I lined everything up I didn't look close enough so the nozzles on this
side will have to be moved. Have you ever seen a Z so dirty?
I left enough slack in all of the tubing that I can actually hook it all up with the front back on through the gap where the air filter goes in front of the
radiator. A T-piece here and there, securing everything with cable ties and it's all done.
Now all I have to do is choose how I'm going to trigger the spray, and I'll let you know that as soon as I decide on it myself :) I also want to monitor
intake temperatures to see what exactly the spray is doing (if anything), so I'll talk about that in the next section when it's up as well.
I'd just like to say a quick thanks to Bob in Oz, IB, Andrew G, RedZedMikey (I'm sure I've missed some people, so sorry) for their contributions, advice
and opinions on various aspects of this, as well as Peter McAlpine, who (although he is the enemy WRX driver ;-) has shared some of his experience
with making a WRX IC spay with me. His website which contains some useful info as well as some electronics toys exactly for this sort of application
can be found here
Write up by Blipman.
Nick:
Spongerider(dean),
I saw a post last night that mentioned you would have completed your amist install this past weekend. Any progress? Any results? Care to share?
I'd have easily completed mine if I hadn't run into so many issues with the Jeep. I work on it daily and it wears on me daily. sigh.
-nicholas.
Spongerider:
Howzit guys!
Well like everything else with AM something went wrong. When I was doing the plumbing I found out that I was missing a 'T' and looked everywhere for it. I
looked at my receipt and noticed that they did not ship one in my kit so I spent a couple of hours driving around looking for this part and trying to force it into regular
'T's with no luck. :( I called Brad up on Monday and he took care of it for me and I also picked up two 1mm. jets too so I hope to have it this Friday????
As far as the tank there is some space for the IC to breathe but nor much. I well take pics. of it tonight and show them to you tomorrow. As soon as I get my missing
part I'm ready to roll!! :)
LaterZ...
Spongerider....
Nick:
LOL, I'm in the same boat, I need one more Y-ee to finish the jet install. then it's just running wires to the pump... then, a giant yea-ha from texas as wheels scream
on the dyno!
Bernard:
Sponge... did you end up putting the front tank on? and if so, how much
space is there between it and the intercooler?
Spongerider:
Howzit!
Here is the pics that Bernard requested about the IC & Water Tank. Sorry for the bad pics I got a shaky hand. There is about 4-5" of room behind the IC & water tank
but about 1/4" of room near the outlet of the IC. If there is any question E mail me back please?
LaterZ..
Spongerider....
Bernard:
Looks good, Sponge. I guess that's the way I'm going to go as well. In the DOCS section of TT.net, it shows that the front mount water tank has a low level sensor...
I suppose it's optional, as it seems as if there's an area on the bottom of the tank where it can go. Also, it looks like there's plenty of room between the IC and water
tank, so air flow won't be too obstructed. Thanks for the pics, Sponge.
Bernie
Nick:
Well. I made some headway this weekend on my install.
All my plumbing is complete. I decided to completely re-plumb the car cause I could see a line or two and generally didn't like the routing of a few things. So I left a
bunch of extra hose between each piece so I could go back a finalize the installation when everything tests out ok. But I really like where every component is at. I
corrected my WRONG water injector install (wrong side of the intercooler) buy plugging the holes with 1/2" long oversized stainless bolts from Home Depot. I also
used plenty of silicone sealant, being certain to remove residue from the inside of the intercooler. I installed the new injectors on the correct "outlet" side of the
intercoolers, but failed to check fit my injector location before drilling and tapping. Upon assembly and installation, the drivers side injectors interfered with the
overflow tank (91TT). I threw my tools against the garage door, stomped my feet, and went to watch cops. My friend solved the problem by relocating the overflow
tank 1" UP. So the tank is in the same
location, it's just 1" higher. All lines and injectors are clear of any obstructions.
I then decided to tackle electrical yesterday (eventually). With the help from another more-sane-then-I friend, I was able to layout where wires go and what they do.
It matches my schematic I gave everyone to the tee. I may make changes, but will inform you guys with photos and diagrams, Ross Perot style. I'll be finalizing the
wiring tonight and over the next two or three days. I anticipate I will wire, re-wire, then final wire the car. After all, I can't have anything visible.
I may start running water on the car to verify the install, but I won't be dynoing until after I receive and install my Nismo 555's. (they are being balanced and flow
tested).
Just thought I'd share, thanks for listening and being in on the GB. I Hope you guys get a chance to run it.
regards, Nicholas.
Spongrider:
Howzit!
I'm just in the process of installing my LEDS after that I'm finished. :) So I should be done in a day or 2??? :) I'll post some pics, when I'm done.
LaterZ..
Spongerider....
Spongerider:
Howzit!
This is a lazy question but do any of you guys know which of the 3 wires that go the HICAS actuator in the ignition?
LaterZ..and thanks a bunch.
Spongerider....
Nick:
FWIW; we grabbed 'switched 12v ignition' from our shock servo harness. They are 2 or three pronged plugs located by the shock towers. I will hardwire mine to a
better or less conspicuous source later
Spongerider:
Do you remember which of the three wires you hooked up?
LaterZ..and thanks!
Spongerider....
Nick:
If you have a multimeter, you can easily find which one is switch 12v positive. You can either do continuity to ground to verify which is ground or you can check all
wires for positive with the car off, then check all wires for positive with the car "on". If you don't have one, I can take a picture of my connection tonight and send it
to you.
Spongerider:
Howzit!
Thanks for the support guys. I will post pics soon. One thing to note is that the pump is F^%king loud just like a air compressor. I will try and put a rubber backing
on it to less the sound and vibration. I also notice when tying into the HICAS plug for the ignition that all 3 wire are positive. I even tried to switch the Touring and
Sport button to see if anything would change and nothing did. Is it me or does that sound odd? BTW it's working!!!!! :) Finally after 3 months of no Z this is the
longest I have ever gone without her since I bought her in 92'.
Nixit I will run the 1mm. jet for now and wait for your results from the dyno.
Uneazyrider thanks for the congrats and yes it worked on the first shot!
LaterZ...
Spongerider....
Nick:
Once you get everything running right, you will notice that the only time you can hear and feel the pump is at startup. And even then, it'll be for 1 or 2 seconds at
most.
I found on the adjustable suspension harness that the middle wire (white) was switched 12v ignition. This is the one I tapped into for the pump relay. I didn't
discover what the other two wires did, but I did ensure that the middle white wire did not change when the sport/touring mode was switched.
My dyno may be some time away, then again, it's only $100.oo to do, so maybe I can go and do it when I get mine up and running.
I'm having some serious problems with my install...Basically, I get to start from scratch, cause I jacked something up. Plus I did something different with my lights
and switches. Trying to be different bit my butt. I think I'll go back to my original schematic.
Maybe I'll take what I have to Damon. He thinks a lot clearer when you slide him a $20.oo. hehe
Spongerider:
Howzit!
Which jets are you guys going to be running? I'm running the 1mm.jet. BTW I finished the install and will prime the system tonight.
LaterZ..
Spongerider....
Nick:
Hi Dean...
I checked your profile and notice you have stock turbos. I recommend running two injectors per side. We found on Damon's car that we needed more water then the
1mm jets could provide.
So I'm starting with 1x .5mil and 1x .6 mil. These will flow much more water then a 1 mil jet. If I have hesitation/stumble with that setup, I can always just take one
of the two injectors out of the circuit.
On Damon's car, we ran 1mil jets and were quite successful. It will be interesting to see what happens with your car since you have installed your injectors much
further back on the intake pipes. On our tests, we were maybe 5-6" from the throttle body.
let us know how it goes!
(fwiw, I am still testing mine. I made 1 1.2 bar run two or three days ago. I still need to do serious test and tune though.)
Bernard:
This weekend I managed to get a lot of stuff done. I was able to install the front windshield washer tank, mount all the hardware, run all the tubing, and half the
wiring. I just need to finalize the wiring and I'll be all set to go. For those of you who want to do the front washer tank, here are the part numbers courtesy of
Spongerider and Greg Dupree...
1 28910-44P00 TANK ASSY-WINDS $84.15
2 08360-6165C SCREW MACHINE $.51
2 66824-01G00 CLIP-TRIM$.95
I did not tap into the tank. Instead, I simply attached a hose to the outlet of one of the pumps that comes with the tank. Even though Damon and Nixit showed that
the AM pump is capable of pulling through the resistance of the windshield washer pump, I totally eliminated all resistance by opening up the pump (3 screws on the
bottom), pulling out the little "pinwheel gear" which actually moves the water, and drilling out the hole going to the tank to make it bigger. Thus, I'm essentially
using the "shell" of the pump to connect to the water source. This is nice because you don't have to screw around with trying to attach the tank adapter to the tank
(which Nixit showed was very difficult), and also it draws water from the very bottom. I'm going to use the second pump that came with the tank to power my
intercooler spraying system (and take advantage of the extra unused jets that came with the Aquamist kit).
The tank also comes with its own low water level sensor. HOWEVER, it works different from the one in the rear tank. The rear tank circuit gets broken when the
water is low, but the front tank circuit gets completed when the water is low. So, they work in opposite fashions. Does one of you smart electronics guys know how I
might be able to hook up the front sensor to make it work like the rear sensor? If not, I guess I'll just wire up a warning LED.
Nick:
Congratulations on your progress!
I didn't think the GB kits came with the little knurled tank adapter...hmm... If you can get it too seal, that's great, but I had a lot of issues with it.
Semi Aquamist Related.
FYI; It's funny you mention that. My part time roommate is doing a water injection install on his suburban (WOT=spray). We did three different installs using
Aquamist jets; a washer pump, a fuel pump (x3), and a pressurized air tank. With the washer pump, we had NO misting using the Aquamist injectors. We had
spittle. Then the washer pump over heated and melted within 2 minutes. It doesn't do well when there is actual pressure to overcome. With the fuel pump(s), we had
more spittle, but still no mist. We tried three variations, all ranging from $12.oo units, to $129.oo units. none of them could over come the back pressure. He
eventually decided on a 3 gallon air compressor tank and water mist jets off a outdoor patio misting system. This has worked best and provides plenty of mist.
However, he needs to buy Aquamist hose, cause the fuel injector line keeps rupturing.
How many terminals are on the sensor? I tried taking mine out of my spare tank, only to ruin it. :). I think there are relays out there that can help you, but I am not
sure. I think they can be wired to provide a open circuit (lamp=off) when the signal circuit is closed (water=high). then when the signal circuit opens (water=low),
the relay will close a circuit (lamp=on). It's all in how you wire those silly relays.
Well, it shouldn't. I never saw the schematic that you mention. My kit was before the use of accumulators by Aquamist UK. Only Brad at KC Saab was doing this at
that time. The answer is, it should not matter.
I bought 10,000 hour 12volt "lamps" from radio shack. They are the same that I am using on my wrangler for check engine light. I was impressed with how bright
they are during the day. (yes, the jeep still has a check engine light "on" ... hehehe (too many damned projects)) A two pack runs $2.99 I believe and are available in
red, green, and blue. The lamp bezel is rather large at about .4" od (between 3/8" and 1/2"). I was planning on installing my lamps into the center console upper
'defrost' vents (horizontal vent with 8-10 vertical fins). I want my lights always visible to me. I will recess them so no one else can see them.
Thanks for everyone's updates! It's nice to see we are coming along, and before summer gets here!
Bernard:
Bah. It's a good thing I mentioned that... saved me some potentially wasted time... lol. The tech article for the intercooler sprayers teed into the supply line so that
most of the water actually gets diverted back into the tank (to relieve the pressure)... yet still had enough pressure to mist the water through the nozzles. They didn't
use the Aquamist jets though, so I suppose I'll have to get the patio misting jets you mentioned.
There are 2 on each sensor. Ah yes... that's a good idea, I think I may be able to wire a relay in so that I can use the stock sensor dash light. Seeing as how you're one
of those smart electronics guys, do you want to draw up a schematic for me that will work? I'm not too familiar with relays. Are there different specifications for
different
relays and if so, what specs do I need?
So, the schematic entitled "desirable modified install" didn't work for you? Or are you saying that you tried something different from the "desirable modified install"
that didn't work?
Bernie
Nick:
I'll see what I can come up with...shouldn't take me but 5 minutes to figure out the wires...then 7 hours to come up with the pic (j/k)...
Yes, I tried something different. I thought I was being cool. I installed a:
"pump armed light" (green)
"pump active light" (red)
"water injector armed light" (green)
"water injector active light" (blue)
and the two override switches.
I had so many wires running into the cabin, that I must of crossed one or seven. I'll go back and redo everything this weekend. What a complete and total
pain in the ass.
And another VERY IMPORTANT reminder GUYS; for everyone... If you're using the main engine harness boot in the passenger fender area to run your wires, be
sure to run them correctly. I now know why my AVC-R would crap out occasionally. The AFC/AVCR harnesses were run between the engine harness grommet and
the hole in the firewall. there is NO wire protection when you do this. I corrected this by stuffing a 3/8" aluminum tube between the grommet and the hole in the
firewall. This opens up two very nice holes on the left and right of the 3/8" aluminum tubing to run wires (or through the tube). I may stuff one or two more 3/8"
tubes in there for future wire runs. I hope others who ran wires here took some precautions to prevent wire chaffing here. I ended up repairing 7 wires that were cut
or chaffed badly. (anyone want a pic of it? should I mention it on tt.net?)
regards, Nicholas.
Spongerider:
Howzit!
Here are some pics.
LaterZ..
Spongerider....