Burton Klein, 10-19-67, Orleans Parish Grand Jury

ORLEANSPARISHGRAND JURY
OCTOBER19, 1967
SPECIAL INVESTIGATION -
PRESENT:
-
MR. RICHARD BURNES, MR. JAMESALCOCK,
MR. NUMA\BERTEL,MR. ALVIN OSER
MEMBERSOF THE ORLEANSPARISHGRAND JURY
BURTON G. KLEIN
*
*
Reported
by:
Maureen B. Thiel
Secretary
Orleans
Parish
Grand Jury
.-
*
*
*
*
BURTON G. KLEIN,
after
being duly sworn by the Foreman
of the Orleans Parish Grand Jury,
was questioned
and answered as follows:
FOREMAN:
Mr.
Klein
in which
that
I believe
you stated
you wished
A.
Yes sir,
Q-
Will
A.
I am here
you sent
that
this
us a letter
in the past
you had some information
Jury
to have.
I did.
you proceed
to give
to tell
be speaking
us that
you that
for
information.
in view
some considerable
of the hour
period
I may
of time
if
you have no objections.
Q-
We have
A.
I presume
from now on.
that
I am being
called
here
today
in response
to my request?
so far
Q=
Yes,
A.
Gentlemen,
as I know.
before
provided
I begin
if
you approve,
speak without
am finished
I would
I may have
interruptions,
I will
like
if
permission,
the opportunity
possible,
answer any question
to
and when I
on any subject.
MR. BURNES:
I do not
time
certain
not
want to set a pattern,
that
as an Assistant
obligation
intend
District
to this
to interrupt
but
let
me state
Attorney
Grand Jury,
you in anything
at this
I have a
and while
I do
you are saying
2.
as long,in
my opinion
as an attorney,
a competent
matter
in which
at any time
you attempt
that
it
you speak on,
to give
is
that
is
the Grand Jury
information
that is hearsay or inadmissible
evidence
Assistant
my obligationas/District
Attorney
will
compel me to
interrupt
and advise
Now I am not
as evidence.
such a thing
interrupt
A.
My duty
Jury
A.
but
I will
as attorney
they
now with
interrupt
unless
we will
you would
certainly
that
do
not
of necessity
where
but
name, which
receive
the
I am required
I feel
is Burton
a former
that
in mind I will
that
if
it
better.
- I will
may seem
picture
Aside
is
from my
I want
to tell
you that
under
Richard
Dowling
Attorney
during
that
the entire
G. Klein,
District
not
to.
some things
District
evidence
Some of the things
anyway.
with
the Grand
as competent
statement
appreciate
I was a former
You may recall
cause me to advise
that
try
you will
and also
receive
the Grand Jury
will
my remarks
irrelevant
heard
that
I will
tell
cannot
hearsay,
preface
saying
can't
is.
that
Well,
it,
they
the sake of interrupting.
\
I am about to say will
Some of the things
be hearsay
Q*
of infer
you for
evidence
them that
Attorney
under
Mr.
the Dowling-Garrison
Jim Garrison.
campaign
.
3.
it
became very
campaigned
the fact
staff
heated
for
Mr. Dowling.
that
for
does not
shortly.
and as a matter
Mr.
a routine
he appreciated
my services
and he reluctantly
staff
letter
from Judge
and ability
Haggerty
that
I am here
for
former
and a substantial
that
as I was not
he took
believe
that
another
client
witness
also,
again
to give
involving
Miguel
trained,
I would
the Fifth
another
Torres
would
the
I also
to my
I did well
while
two purposes,
1 -
called
room,
by the
of his
I gathered
I understand
one of my clients,
whom I represent,
that
I was leaving
part
Amendment.
Alvin
testimony,
in court
and I
Miguel
Torres,
Beaubouf,
a
and rather
than go through'the
situation
rather
than
prefef
him taking
the Fifth
Amendment,
the Grand Jury
Alvin
in
of 1962
attesting
has been previously
I believe,
in July
my resignation.
one of my clients
Grand Zury
will
from him saying
in a job
Attorney.
This
it
and wa$orry
accepted
and
on his
months.
time but
from his
and I received
District
or five
I
of that
I remained
at this
I resigned
integrity
won,
of four
seem relevant
have a letter
Inspite
Garrison
a period
of fact
a bird
Beaubouf
because
eye's
and the
the Grand
be in a better
view
of the situation
situation
Jury,
position
involving
not
being
legally
to ask my clients
4.
questions
D. A.--
as they
themselves
my clients
will
room as accusers,
members of his
are uneducated
come into
accusing
staff
the Grand Jury
the District
and others
and the
Attorney
of violating
and
the criminal
laws.
MR. BERTEL:
Mr. Klein,
We are going
are trying
to accomplish
you cannot
do,
Jury
room.
to have to interrupt
right
accompany your
that
this
client
into
under
is just
You
now what you know legally
We are ibligated
Grand Jury
you.
not
the Grand
the law to advise
the
the law.
MR. BUBNES:
Gentlemen,
court
.
as a matter
room where
to bring
his
controvert
A.
of fact,
a counsel
presented
a Grand Jury
room.
or not,
is the law.
I know you don't
it
make if
for
a defendant
case in - a lawyer
evidence
that
8 Grand Jury
may not
try
Now, if
you had facts
We are interested
only
appear
and
Attorney
before
in facts.
in
is a good system
he wants
to testify
any cases - so what difference
develope.
Q*
that
a
is entitled
by a District
Now whether
is not
you that
you could
....
would
.
5.
A.
I am about
conrmitted
want
to present
to you crimes
by the District
to hear
that
Attorney's
have been
Office,
you don't
them?
JUROR:
You say these
A.
men are coming in here?
appeared
One has already/before
a previous
Grand Jury
told
.c
he is coming
prefer
and I was
back.
Q-
I would
to listen
A.
But you are a continuing
Q-
The last
Grand Jury
to your
client,
rather
than
to you.
body.
tried
three
times
to get his
client
to talk.
A*
This
is
a unique
this
Grand Jury
these
situation,
men are coming
room as accusers,
knowledge,
to ask these
clients
Why don't
we have the knowledge?
you do not
into
have the
questions.
JUROR:
A.
You haven't
Q-
Why should
been legally
we set
to ask these
trained
a precedent
for
questions
. ...
you and no other
lawyer?
FOREMAN:
Me don't
give
have
us evidence
to ask questions,
we will
sit
if
here
they
come in here
and listen
to it.
to
6.
But they
don't
need to send you for
Q-
Do you have
any personal,
A.
Well,
see if
Q-
Be specific,
let's
Not what
direct
evidence?
we can go into
something
someone said,
of your
but
them.
something
direct.
own personal
something
knowledge.
from personal
observation.
A.
I have before
me evidence
of crimes
that have been committed
MB. ALCOCK:
Do you have any personal
Qof crimes
No.
Q*
Then I don't
The best
A.
9.
.....
observation
or personal
think
evidence
the Grand Jury
is your
client.
the best
You are telling
me now that.1
cannot
with
evidence
We certainly
are.
that
to hear
Do you want
- you are not
knowledge
Attorney's
ought
client
Jury
have been--
of the members of the District
A.
in your
by
that
Office?
you.
to send
evidence.
present
this
Grand
has been gathered?
We would
be happy
to hear
from your
clients.
A.
My clients
direct
Q*
Who ever
are coming
questions
happens
in as the accusers.
Who will
to them?
to be in the Grand Jury
room,
time.
A.
Even if
they
are the accusers,
is that
right?
at the
7.
Q-
The Grand Jury
A.
No, I am not
mistaken
saying
I don't
legally
Q*
is being
accused?
the Grand Jury
think
- unless
I am
any one of them has been
trained.
You may not
have confidence
in the Grand Jury,
but
we do.
JUROR:
.
I believe
you ought
A.
You are aggravated?
Q-
Well,
that
to leave,
Well,
\
problem,
is your
Mr. Klein.
You aggravate
I am aggravated
I don't
want
me.
too.
to hear
your
problem.
A.
My problem?
thought
Its
a problem
you were here
for
the whoie
representing
Let
us see the man or men who are making
Q.
Mr.
Klein,
last
Grand
A.
That
is correct.
Q=
And you,
Attorney,
the District
A.
Jury
you express
as to their
as an attorney
didn't
Attorneys
themselves
know how they
is correct.
deliberate?
vot.e?
these
of trust.in
charges.
the
any ind'ependent
Assistant
everyone,
and everyone
room when they
that
taking
and a former
Grand Jury
Yes,
lack
you know that
I
the community.
Q-
didn't
community.
action?
District
the court
is put
reporter,
out of the
And only
the Jury
8.
JUROR:
A.
Mr. Klein
you are giving
confidence
in us before
No,
that
but
:-
that
us the idea
yourclient
I am going
happened . . . .
MR. BERTEL:
I am sorry,
Bert,
Qthe only
thing
run for
District
see it
you of certain
here.
I am saying
at all.
- now I didn't
to tell
you have no
even gets
is not what I am saying
I have evidence
that
-
things
that
to have to interrupt
I am going
you,
I can suggest is that in a few years you
\
Attorney
and if you are elected
you
can come in here
and bring
your
people
in.
FOREMAN:
Do you have some witnesses
A.
Well,
let's
do it
of witnesses
Q-
All
A.
Alvin
right.
that
Give
Beaubouf,
Jim Garrison,
this
way then.Let
Mrs.
Giarrusso,
Q-
We have had Supt.
Giarrusso.
A.
Not to talk
what
Q.
How do you know what they
A.
In fact,
Jury
A.
this
was that?
Alvin
Presley
Beaubouf,
Lyn Loisel,
Trosclair,
....
is.
talked
ask one witness
room?
What witness
you a list
them to us.
Supt.
you did
me give
in?
you can call.
his wife,
about
you want to bring
about
in here?
. in
what went on/the
Grand
9.
Q.Miguel
Torres.
Jury
A.
You asked him what went
room.
on in
the Grand
And what he was asked.
We discussed
questions.
And he told
me what was asked.
He came out to seek my advice.
Q*
You asked him what he answered
A.
I may have.
....
I was his
Hugh Exnicios,
Q*
You are
A.
That
talking
Parish
a tape
recording
with
offenses.
to have
of the
be necessary
recording.
District
signed
District
place
to call
There
Attorney
request
by Alvin
outside
an audio
Attorney's
that
this
led
offenses
Parish.
for
to
you have
some
It
the
might
tape
in the possession
Beauboef
which
in
he bring
admittedly
engineer
is a picture
Beauboef,
Parish?
offense
although
of Alvin
one.
have been committed
And that
picture,
took
am.......
in Orleans
him.
you?
him in the first
And to know the other
the gene=1
things
crimes
didn't
I still
I think crimes
\
- and you might
Orleans
other
counsel,
you can call
about
is right.
too,
of the
and an affidavit
is in possession
of the
office.
FOREMAN:
What did
Alvin
A.
He runs
a service
Q*
He didn't
Q-
Are you talking
kill
Beauboef
do?
station.
anyone,
about
or rape
public
anyone?
bribery?
I don't
see how ..,.
10.
A.
Public
intimidation,
public
bribery,
malfeasance
against
Q=
You are making
A.
No, these
Q*
You represent
A.
No Miguel
these
public
and misfeasance,
officials.
allegations?
witnesses.
all
Torres
these
people?
and Alvin
Beauboef.
.
FOREMAN:
Is
A.
that
all
you had in mind when you wrote
the
Q*
at liberty
to say anymore.
\
You are at liberty
to say anything
you want
A.
No, I can't.
Q*
No, say anything
No, I am not
I think
A.
letter?
Well
it
will
the purpose
of any personal
be heard
of what I have
of what
occurred
Beauboef
out picture
so let's
, not
so that
find
you have and
fairly.
of my appearing
picture
a rounded
knowledge
to.
here was to give
as evidence
you could
surrounding
this
out
you a
but a picture
say now we have
Miguel
and call
Torres
these
and Alvin
witnesses.
FOREMAN:
W
Well,
are those
A.
I can see you are concerned
witnesses
- so what?
Q-
What have they
A.
Its
hard
.....
to tell,
done?
sir.
-
you've
got
this
list
of
11.
Q.
A.
Well,
the witnesses
can come in here,
English,
don't
Yes they
speak English.
do not
speak
they?
Some speak
have much of an education
Do you think
they
they
would
not
slightly,
some
...
be treated
fairly
if
they
come here?
.'
A.
No sir
Qo
You don't
A.
No sir
- I don't
though
Mr.
Jury
think
say that
Burnes
shid
to be disrespectful.
I did not
respect
Even
the la$t
Grand
.....
No sir,
I did
I didn't
.-.
so?
not
say that,
say you didn't
I said
respect
did
them,
you tell
I said
me that
did
-
you tell
me that.
A.
I lost
about
.
confidence
that.
in
Its
is.
yes.
I said
I can understand
And I can understand
it
them,
not
that,
why this
their
fault
it
that.
No question
is not
Grand Jury
and I don't
their
fault.
is reacting
say it
as
disrespect-
fully.
JUROR:
Mr.
Klein
I am getting
no confidence
in
A.
in the
the Grand Jury
Well,
I am not
fed up with
Grand Jury
room and hear
allowed
people
and I don't
it
either.
to say anything.
saying
like
they
to sit
have
12.
You must know the
Q-
people
are not
A.
I don't
know.
Q*
You don't
right
-that
tells
you if
ever
lose
Al
Yes,
I have lost
Q*
Did you ever
A.
Yes,
they
they
can't
hear
direct
it
A.
I would
Q*
If
I just
these
about.
know what they
in with
you write
be doing
people
Did
you
that
this
in a position
I have a list
of names -
nothing
- you don't
know how to
You won't/ask
any questionsus?
Presumably
with
these
accusations.
what
I can't
do directly.
their
listen
they
of a nature
- I am not
you they
to tell
saying
- things
want to tell
a letter
can tell
will
believe
accusations.
indirectly
people
the Grand Jury
I am still
or wrong.
can't
evidence
absolutely;'
They are entitled
A.
are right
evidence.
is all
are coming
Why don't
representing
people.
you have a book to read
evidence
mean nothing,
Q*
of these
some.
you direct
They don't
they
rid
win one?
are not
know what
9.’
Don't
I have won some.
to give
get
these
a case?
Grand Jury
that
let's
know.
If
you were a D. A.
You are a lawyer
know.
and you don't
.
law,
can tell
story
the Grand Jury.
- and I am sure
to them and ask questions
are not
lawyers.
13.
Q-
If
a man comes into
limited
education
lawyers
- then
understand
this
- you said
wouldn't
educations
are dealing
with
businesses
these
than
understand,
Q-
Maybe you misinterpret \
Q.
No, I think
he got
Q-
I am dealing
with
people.
the line
legally
is not what
- that
every
the
And they
alone
day.
bring
trained
truth
illiterate-
you would
and get
when you said
And they
in
I am saying.
true
and make decisions
bring
bills
every
alone.
you
say -
qualified
is why the Grand Jury
know what goes on in the Grand Jury
do it
them
Maybe you miss the point.
of questioning
the matter.
MR. BERTEL:
.
YOU were telling
we
them?
And I know I am better
is made up of plain
direct
of life
- in our
and ignornant,
lawyer
you are not
minds
the point.
a trained
If
to
to understand
that
laymen
day.
you,
daily
them.
trained
have legal
you can understand
No, you do not
A.
people
a
equipped
in our walks
we be able
A.
peopldevery
we are not
We don't
- btit
- wouldn't
much better
room with
we be better
them than. you.
and legal
than
Grand Jury
not
be able
to
at the meat of
you did not
room because
in indictments
day - they
they
every
deliberate
day.
14.
A.
But one situation
has changed.
Q*
What?
A.
These men have made allegations
have been made in National
Q*
Then why can't
they
- and allegations
magazines.
come in and make the
allegations
to us?
.
MR. BURNES:
We have tried
National
right
for
wants
or against
to hear
us.
It
You know that
that
is not
any course
relying
on evidence
or properly
result
to,
in any action
take
If
it
me on a magazine
I wouldn't
is a serious
in Louisiana
indict
this
and you know
Grand Jury
takes
been properly
such as a magazine,
an indictment.
and indicted
were published
evidence
has not
you sent
whether
made by . . . . .
that
they
in.
make' any difference.
doesn't
competent
that
attested
information
The articles
of action
Court
our accusers
that
made - allegedly
a
in the Supreme
to bring
They have the articles.
and statements
A.
- we have writs
magazine
Grand Jury
its
0.*
some one to come in from
now - we are trying
This
A.
to get
being
article
allegation
of an offense
are
you/apparently
doing it,
would
quashed,
in a magazine
you on a magazine
identified
such as
and they
read
....
article,
which
I think
but
took
if
there.
place
. ...
15.
Q-
Orleans
A.
....
Parish,
not Louisiana.
by what
is happening
and syndicated
started
in
the so-called
an article
crime,
an investigation
organized
is written
and it
and you are calling
witnesses
in.
Q-
We are not
A.
That's
calling
right,
magazine
Q*
Listen
Q*
You are
another
and nothing
to the
pages,
allegation
we are calling
people.
was made in another
has been done about
it.
facts,
telling
the Grand Jury
are referring
Orleans
magazine
to the Beauboef
Police
Department
something
matter
is wrong,if
because
investigated
it
you
the New
- and you know
it.
A.
Q*
That's
right
and nothing
it
was brought
It
was put
Deputy
that
was done about
to the New Orleans
on the line
of Police
Police
and investigated
- Major
Trosclair
it.
I am aware
Department.
by the Chief
- and I don't
call
.......
The District
Attorney
who has jurisdiction
A.
Well,
I disagree
Q*
You disagree
with
of Jefferson
Parish
is the only
one
in the case.
with
that.
everybody
and you like
to come in and
16.
tell
the story
instead
A.
If
I am wrong
tell
Q.
You are wrong.
of the witness.
me to leave.
FOREMAN:
Tell
me this,
capital
.'
is the wrong
crime?
A.
No sir.
Q*
Is it
A.
No sir.
Q*
Murder?
A.
No sir.
related
you,
to rape?
\
I came in here not
I came in here with
I was doing
Now if
something
I am not
Grand Jury
client's
interest
I can't
to insult
honorable
that
permitted
to think
and push anybody
Now if
you had in mind a
intentions,
I had to do for
to do it
I don't
I came in here
over.
that
do it,
you or abuse
I felt
fine
my client.
want
to insult
that
I should
I felt
and abuse
to protect
appear
the
my
before
them.
.....
Q. JUROR:
Thank you very
your
Q*
Mr.
much, we look
forward
to hearing
from
clients.
Klein,
Department,
this
case which
was investigated
what was the findings
ment and the conclusion?
by the Police
of the Police
Depart-
.
17.
A.
That
no crime
Q-
Is
A.
That's
Q.
Again?
A.
Part
Qm
You think
A.
In my opinion,
this
the same case you are bringing
before
us?
right.
of it.
I disagree
the Police
and highly
too,
was committed.
yes.
trained
so I don't
with
the Police
whitewashed
it?
And I think
very
and skilled
think
that
findings.
competent
lawyers
think
I am sitting
here
men,
that
way
by myself.
\
MR. BURNEXi:
Mr. Klein,
did
you appear
A.
That's
Q-
And you are unaware
before
Major
Trosclair?
correct.
the officers
appeared
from
before
that
no attorneys
the D.A.'s
Major
office
Trosclair,
appeared
with
or otherwise
who
appeared
by them-
they
selves.
A.
I don't
know.
Q-
That
is correct.
You don't
know that.
A.
That
is correct,
I am saying
I don't
Q-
I think
the
If
time has come for
has more information
us some witnesses
will
A.
get
I think
out
it
you say so.
the ruling
than he has given
and if
you choose
the notices.
would
know that.
accomplish
nothing.'
that
unless
he
- he has given
to subpoena
them we
18.
Q*
That
is ridiculous
and they
would
so complicated
Jury
A.
Q=
the
- you say they
come in with
their
about
They can give
same thing
They weren't
they
of a crime
was the victim.
So what?
The State
They have
backed
fits
up with
the
What's
facts
If
evid-ence
ought
- what
is
the Grand
they
- the State
in every
made accusations,
gentlemen
of the crime
and this
I think
its
lady
simple.
is going
let
are sufficiently
and the definition
to know what
of
is the victim
the accusations
so complicated?
certainly
Well
of Louisiana
a story,
these
story
accusers
gave you.
the victims
them come in here.
A.
that?
Louisiana
case.
are the
will
indict.
Beauboef
on by now.
.....
FOREMAN:
Mr. Klein,
between
this
Mr.
Jury
Beauboef
he is just
another
A.
Well,
its
Q@
Frightening?
A.
Thank
did not
sir,
or anybody
citizen.
frightening
All
that
else
makes no distinction
- so far
we want
YOU
as we know
is facts.
‘haven’t
any.
What did he do?
you gentlemen.
do it
has no more
I am sorry
intentionally.
if
I offended
you,
I
19.
FOREMAN:
No one is
thanks
for
offended.
your
letter.
Thanks
for
coming
by and
--
CERTIFICATE
I certify
true
that
and correct
._- before
October,
transcript
copy of the testimony
the Orleans
1967,
the preceding
Parish
and reduced
Grand Jury,
to typewriting
is a
given,
under
on the 19th
by me.
oath,
day of