26 Winter 2005 - San Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation

Frisco Cricket
Published by the San Francsico Traditional Jazz Foundation
Winter 2005
Homecoming
by William Carter
On October 23, 2004 your Foundation
threw its biggest party ever. A massive outpouring
of fun, talent, contributions, and great music put
this rollicking tribute to Lu Watters and his Yerba
Buena Jazz Band “over the top.” Billed as a Tea
Dance, it certainly lived up to that with folks on the
dance floor from start to finish, reminding us that
S.F. jazz of this vintage was always a dancing
music.
Some 600 members and non-members (and
new and renewing members, hooray!) filled the huge
atrium of San Francisco’s Townsend Center to bask
in the glow of a Watters-style band led by banjoist
John Gill and paced by the cornet duo of Leon
Oakley and Jim Cullum. Intermission piano was by
Robbie Rhodes. Many of the musicians came from
around the country at fees far below their normal
professional rates for such a time commitment: Gill
from New York, Cullum from San Antonio, Rhodes
from southern California, trombonist Tom Bartlett
from Chicago, tuba man Ray Cadd from southern
California, plus Bay Area denizens Oakley, pianist
Marty Eggers, drummer Clint Baker, and myself on
clarinet.
Contributions small and large made the day.
The great event could not have happened without
the very generous backing of its inspirational
underwriter, Terry O’Reilly of the law firm of
O’Reilly, Collins & Danko. Other major supporters
included Brenda Oakley and Bill Tooley. Those who
gave of their time and services included (among
others) the great M.C. Mal Sharpe, Charles and
Donna Huggins, photographer Rich Ressman,
beverage provider Steve Borkenhagen, the entire
family of John and Ann Matthews, broadcaster
Margaret Pick and staff, Alisa Clancy, and the staff
of the Townsend Center, home to your Foundation’s Archive. Special mention needs to be made of
the tireless efforts, over many months, to advertise
and publicize this event by the talented Ed
Schwartz: including the San Francisco Chronicle
Datebook article by Jesse Hamlin on the very day
of the event, which attracted quite a number of the
attendees.
Yes, there was tea, but much else to imbibe
besides, due in no small measure to truly memorable catering by the renowned Kevin Weir, another contributor who performed way beyond the
call of professional duty, including such mundane
matters as setting up many hundreds of chairs.
A large display area was managed by a team
directed by Bunch Schlosser. Including professional
tradeshow display equipment loaned and driven
up from southern California by the indefatigable
Michael Custer, this gave SFTJF its first chance in
many years to show off some of the thousands of
Contents
Homecoming by William Carter
1
Letters To The San Francisco Cricket & From the Editor by Scott Anthony
4
Local Legends - Bill Bardin An Interview by Dave Radlauer & Bill Carter
5
Appreciation for Donations to SFTJF for 2004
13
Membership Application and Product List
15
1
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
instruments, posters,
memorabilia and
other products documenting a significant
regional jazz style.
Key to this were the
efforts of that inveterate jazz researcher,
our Archivist Clint
Baker, who spent
countless hours
prowling through the
wee recesses of the
vast SFJTF Archive
and selecting the
Bob Giles at the Townsend
items to be presented.
Center, San Francisco, October
In many
23, 2004
senses October 23
Photo by Richard Ressman
was a true homecoming. The New Orleans Jazz Club of Northern
California really pitched in with ticketing and
mailing list help, as did others. Highlighting this
integrative spirit of the Foundation, many of us
greeted jazz friends unseen in years or even decades.
I was delighted, for instance, to chat with
member Lee Valencia, a fine banjoist with whom I
was privileged to share the stage in the Bay City Jazz
But the palm for such
lo
yalty mus
t go t
o Bob
to
loy
must
Giles...
Band at the Sail ‘N in 1958, but whom I’d only seen
a couple of times in the intervening 45 years. Lee,
incidentally, has provided valuable support to SFTJF
including donating great photos from those days of
yore.
Lu’s widow, Pat Watters, was in attendance,
as were other luminaries too numerous to name,
The Frisco Cricket
Advertise in the Cricket!
Issue No. 26
In an effort tohelp defray the costs of
maintaining all the varied programs that
SFTJF supports, including The Frisco
Cricket itself, we’re going to begin providing limited advertising space here. We
want to be fair to everyone, so there are a
few rules we’d like to follow:
• The advertiser should be in a music
related (preferably Traditional Jazz related) business (band, club, cruise, radio
station, etc.).
• No more than a total of 2 full
pages will be used in any single issue of
the Cricket, so ads will be accepted on a
first-come, first-served basis.
• We need to be able to maintain the
right to accept or reject advertisements at
our discretion.
Published by the
SAN FRANCISCO TRADITIONAL
JAZZ FOUNDATION
41 Sutter Street, PMB 1870
San Francisco, California 94104
Phone: (415) 522-7417, FAX: (415) 922-6934
Website: www.sftradjazz.org
E-mail: [email protected]
Publisher: William Carter
Managing Editor and Layout: Scott Anthony
Curator of the Archive : Clint Baker
Special Projects Consultant: Hal Smith
Office Manager: Bunch Schlosser
Directors
Philip F. Elwood
William Alhouse
Charles Huggins
John R. Browne III
John Matthews
Charles Campbell
Leon Oakley
William Carter
Terry O’Reilly
Jim Cullum
William Tooley
Advertising Rates
per issue
1/8 Page $35
1/4 Page $50
Unless otherwise noted, all contents copyright © 2004
San Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation
2
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
including the inimitable Pat Yankee, who graced us with
some intermission songs, and Jim Goggin, the founder of
the original collection of material that started your
Foundation. Word reached us of members traveling all
the way from Texas and Seattle for this glittery event.
But the palm for such loyalty must go to Bob
Giles of Cambridge, Massachusetts, whose plane from
Boston arrived San Francisco at noon, in time for the 3-7
pm party, whose return red-eye left SFO the same night
at 10. Bob, a banjoist with the original Salty Dogs band
many decades ago, became a top-flight journalist in
Detroit and now runs the prestigious Nieman Foundation at Harvard.
Speaking of homecoming, from very close to our
home, daughter Julia Morris worked for countless hours
setting up the stage, beautifully arranging the artifacts,
selling merchandise and a dozen other “gopher” assignments. Her Mom, Ulla Morris-Carter, served as number
one cheerleader, social greeter, and indispensable silent
partner from feeding the band to double checking every
detail.
Lee Valencia from photo of the Bay City Jazz Band, 1958
Photographer unknown
Yerba Buena Stompers at the Townsend Center, San Francisco, October 23, 2004
Top Row: Ray Cadd, Marty Eggers, Clint Baker, John Gill
Bottom Row: Tom Bartlett, Leon Oakley, Jim Cullum, Bill Carter
3
Photo by Richard Ressman
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
All these are just a few examples. Doubtless we have inadvertently forgotten to mention
many helpers who deserve mentioning. Literally
hundreds of celebrants added up to that spirit of
joyous participation that is more than the sum of
its parts, and that makes your Foundation what it
is. e
Editor’s note: a couple of items were left at the
concert and turned into the SFTJF “lost and found
department.”
1. A light beige man’s zip-up jacket (with blue lining).
The owner might be named David. (a gift tag in the
pocket was addressed to “Sweet David”).
2. A woman’s scarf, chiffon - black & blue print about
4 feet long
Email: [email protected] if one of these is yours.
Letter to
The Frisco Cricket
From the Editor
In response to our first call for (limited)
advertising, Dave Radlauer almost immediately
responded, not only with an ad for his subscription online archive of his Jazz Rhythm shows,
but with the offer to supply the SFTJF with audio
sources of many of the interviews he did in
conjunction with Bill Carter with a number of
San Francisco legends of jazz.
This issue will introduce a new series for
The Frisco Cricket called “Local Legends of Jazz”
based on these interviews. I had originally
thought “Living Legends of Jazz” would be a
good title, but sadly, as we all know, a number of
the interviewees (but not Bill Bardin) have
passed away since the interviews were conducted.
For our first Local Legend interview I’ve
chosen Bill Bardin, a wonderful trombonist who
has graced the Bay Area traditional jazz scene
since the 1940s. After listening to and transcribing the interview I was hoping to dot the article
with neat pictures of Bill and some of the locations and people he describes. However, the
SFTJF Archives has an severe paucity of images of
him, which, on reflection, is understandable
considering his obvious modesty. The lack of
images has an upside - more space for the text!
One final note: most interviews are
heavily edited, but I really wanted the reader to
get the sense of the sound and cadence of Bill’s
voice, so I’ve left in a lot of what might otherwise
have been stripped. I hope you like it.
Bill,
I'm writing you because you're the only
member of the SF Trad Jazz Society whose email
address I know. I hope you will pass these comments
on to those concerned.
Jean and I both enjoyed the Sunday concert
thoroughly, and were amazed at the large turnout.
Also, we thought the whole event showed enormous
skill in planning and preparation [except possibly
for rehearsing the band, thoughthat was unavoidable]. For instance:
1. The directions to find the hall were exceptionally
thorough and clear.
2. The food was well planned and varied. It was a
great idea to include it in the price of admission.
3. The hall and arrangements could hardly be
improved on.
4. Including a dance floor was a great idea. Dancing was a big part of the Dawn Club and Hambone
Kelly's.
5. The musicians were as good as you will find for
this type of music.
6. John Gill was an excellent narrator with wellresearched background notes.
I only have one negative. Lu's theme,
“Friendless Blues," was played as just another piece
in his repertoire. No way. Lu always ended every
session with that tune, and it was the last one the
band played together [Turk with tears in his eyes]. It
was special to them - very special. It would have
been fitting to close the program with it rather than
putting it in the middle of the session.
But that's a small cavil that I doubt many
people would have noticed. All in all, everyone
concerned with the event deserves huge applause.
Corrections to the last issue:
1. The correct birthdate of Lu Watters is December 19, 1911, not 1919 as stated in the article by
Ed Schwartz.
2. Jim Cullum plays cornet, not trumpet as stated
in the same article. e
Scott Anthony
Many thanks. Dave Warren, Cambridge, MA
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The Frisco Cricket
Local Legends Of Jazz
Winter 2005
An Int
er
vie
w wit
h Bill Bar
din
Inter
ervie
view
with
Bardin
by
Da
ve R
adlauer and Bill Car
ter
Dav
Radlauer
Cart
was a San Francisco player. He has several brothers, all of them good players. And Al was playing
days at the studio, KYA I think it was, with the
Dude Martin Band, and he was talked into playing
at the Dawn Club. And somewhere along the line,
I don't know how these things happened, but
Benny Strickler was an old friend of some of the
guys in the band, Helm I think, and Russ Bennett
the banjo player, and so he was talked into coming
and playing at the Dawn Club. He had been playing with Bob Wills.
Radlauer: Strickler had, yes?
Bardin: Yes, and he was a marvelous player; really
bouncy, well, you can tell by listening to him. And
there was a half-hour broadcast, live, remotecontrol broadcast every Friday night from the
Dawn Club, and one of these, at least one, and
possibly only one, was taken down as an air-check.
Someone set up an acetate recorder in the kitchen
and took it off the air, or took it before it got to the
air I guess. And that's what the Benny Strickler
records were.
It was a wonderful experience hearing the
Watters band in person. It was impossible to carry
on a conversation, they were so loud, but they were
rich. They had a big, rich, round sound. And some
of us Berkeley people had set up a little band. I was
with P. T. Stanton and Pete Allen and a few other
players who are not playing any longer. And we,
someone in our band, asked permission to play a
set at the Dawn Club. So we did, and we surprised
everyone. Those guys didn't know that anyone was
doing that kind of music. They didn't know, in
short, that they had any imitators! We were the
first imitators I think.
So (Bill) Dart, a very friendly guy, he said,
"Why don't you guys join the Union for
Christsake?", he said (that's how he talked). The
upshot of it was that I got a job replacing Turk at
the Dawn Club.
So I became a Turk imitator. I never was a
Radlauer: This is Dave Radlauer at KALW with
Bill Bardin and Bill Carter. This is an interview of
Bill Bardin, primarily for the San Francisco
Traditional Jazz Archives, and, Bill, thanks for
taking the time to come down here.
Bardin: Oh, glad to, glad to.
Radlauer: One of the first reasons people seem to
seek you out is your involvement in the Yerba
Buena Jazz Band, when Lu and a lot of the guys
were in the Navy.
Bardin: It was the Fall of '42 that I was at the
Dawn Club. When I first went in the band I
think Al Zohn was playing the trumpet. Al Zohn
Bill Bardin at “Jelly’s”
Photo by Mark Krunosky
5
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
big Turk fan. Although I was, I am a great admirer of his part playing. The way that he, the
broad way that he plays parts in the band.
Carter: How did you become an imitator of his
without being an admirer of his?
Bardin: Oh, I thought we might get a job at the
Dawn Club (laugh). Boy, that sounds terrible,
doesn't it?
Carter: No, it sounds absolutely honest in the
way that jazz musicians operate sometimes.
Bardin: Yes. And of course I was, from listening
to the Hot Five records, I was aware of (Kid)
Ory, and an Ory fan, and then later, Jim
Robinson, although I didn't become a real fan of
Jim Robinson's until I saw him in person with the
George Lewis Band. Ory's band was at the C.I.O
Hall at 150 Golden Gate Avenue in about 1945.
Was it 1945? Around then, give or take a year.
Forty-five, forty-six. And I spent a lot of time
“...t
he par
rot w
ould
...the
parr
would
call out, "Lina,
telephone" and poor
Lina w
ould come out
would
he
ds t
and go t
owar
ards
the
to
telephone
elephone..”
there. Another great, all-time band. The
Longshoreman's Hall was not built until after
1950, I think. I was living at Ma Watter's House
at 24 Steiner Street and..
Radlauer: Wait a minute, You said Ma Watters,
Bardin: Ma Waters, yeah.
Radlauer: Lu's Mother?
Bardin: Yes.
Radlauer: Wait a minute let's diverge... diverge
just a minute, tell me about that.
Bardin: Oh, well, Lu's mother had a... rented a
flat that is, the entire top floor of an old frame
house, a typical San Francisco House, at number
24 Steiner Street. That's at Dubose and Steiner.
And Lu lived there for awhile and he moved out.
At the time I was living there, (Squire) Gershback
lived there. Gershback had a room there. Forest
Brown had a room there. Forest Brown was a
piano player and bass player.
Carter: A room in this one big flat?
Bardin: Yeah, a-huh. And Lu's half sister Lina lived
there. And a guy, an old guy named Wit lived
there, that's all I know of his name. And Ma Waters. And we all had kitchen privileges. And Lu's
parrot was there too, and living in Ma Waters part
of the apartment.
Radlauer: Could the Parrot Talk?
Bardin: The Parrot? Yes. Lina, Lu's half sister, was
a sort of a nervous woman, a pleasant woman, but
a little nervous and sometimes the parrot would
call out, "Lina, telephone" and poor Lina would
come out and go towards the telephone, she never
did know when it was Ma Water's speaking or the
parrot.
6
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
to buy the piano player a drink. And he'd play his
marvelous stuff. He was at the top of his form
then.
Radlauer: What sort of stuff would he play?
Bardin: Oh. He would play Fats (Waller) stuff,
and he would play Jelly-Roll (Morton) stuff.
Carter: What was the first jazz band you ever
Carter: Did Ma Water's put the parrot up to this?
You think?
Bardin: No I don't think so, I think it was just an
ornery parrot. I just think it just picked up this
thing on the natural.
Radlauer: Was there ever music played there?
Bardin: No, it was not an out and out musical
apartment.
Radlauer: But it did give you a chance to get,
what, better acquainted with Lu?
Bardin: Not with Lu. He wasn't living there at the
time. Although he would show up every now
and then. I lived around the corner from Burt
(Bales) for awhile. Burt was living around the
corner in an alley called Lily Street. Burt and his
wife Jean. I was living at Ma Watters house and I
used to like to go around and sit in his living
room in the afternoon and listen to records and,
ah, talk to Burt. Burt was...
Radlauer: Would he have been older than you?
Bardin: Oh, yes, again, about ten years older than
me. He was kind of a wiggy guy.
Radlauer: How so?
Bardin: I mean, he had... he had original ideas on
political matters, and he had a, my impression
was that he had a rather high IQ, Burt. And he
was interesting and fun to talk to and to listen to
hold forth.
Carter: We're talking now the period when you
were living in this flat?
Bardin: Yes. That's right.
Carter: Now what period was that exactly?
Bardin: Forty-eight. Yes. Forty eight or forty nine.
Forty seven maybe.
Carter: About a year you were there?
Bardin: Yeah, a year or two. And then, and Burt
was working at a place called the "Ten-Eighteen
Club" on Filmore Street. Now Filmore, Steiner
Street is just one block from Filmore and so it was
an easy walk over the hill and down the other
side, walking North.
The Ten-Eighteen Club was a big square
room lined in tile, white tile, like a bathroom. And
Burt had a pedestal right in the middle of the
room as I recall, or maybe off to one side. Anyway, there was a piano about 3 feet off the floor
on a small platform, and Burt would sit up there
and from time to time ask if anybody was going
T he first "name" band I
hear
d I guess w
as Basie
heard
was
at t
he F
air
939, t
he
the
Fair
air,, 1
1939,
the
Wor
lds F
air
orlds
Fair
air.. What a
ill t
hat w
as. Of
thr
that
was.
hrill
course I'd been buying
his records and
listening to them. What
a kic
kt
o actuall
y see
kick
to
actually
these demigods pla
ying
playing
ying..
heard? Live.
Bardin: Humm... Live. Well it would have been,
ah, local bands playing for high school dances out
in ah... No, would have been earlier than that.
Maybe the Piedmont Assembly which was a
ballroom dance class in Piedmont. There was a
little trio that they hired - a trumpet, piano, and
drums to play for the kids learning, trying to learn
to dance.
And the first "name" band I heard I guess
was Basie at the Fair, 1939, the Worlds Fair. What
a thrill that was. Of course I'd been buying his
records and listening to them. What a kick to
actually see these demigods playing. And then I
saw Ellington, second.
Radlauer: Did I hear you once say that Tricky Sam
Nanton was a big inspiration for you?
Bardin: Oh yeah, he is for all trombone players I
think. Yeah, he played that distinctive plunger
sound. He would, he had a small mute which, I
guess, was a trumpet mute that he would put in
the bell. And then the plunger. You all know what
a plunger is?
7
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
Radlauer: Like a kitchen plunger like a plumbing...
Carter: Like a plumbers friend.
Bardin: Yeah. This would fit over, tightly over the
bell and completely enclose the little mute, whatever it was, the trumpet mute. And he got a distinctive, thin sound and really could get a vox-humana
effect with it. He could "talk" with the thing. Other
players can do that too, some of them, but they
don't use the right straight mute, the little mute that
fits inside.
Carter: So when did you first improvise?
Bardin: Later on in high school, Dicky Wells was
my hero. And I tried to get the same feeling that he
got. And as always, even now, trying to hold the
band together, trying to bring things together, and
do what, do what I could to focus the direction of
the band. That is to say, give little "harmonic
nudges" here and there. A lot to think about,
beyond straight expressive improvising.
Carter: Right.
Radlauer: Did you ever get a chance to meet Dicky
Wells, your, and hear him play?
“So I wrote to him care of
local 802 in N
ew Y
or
k
Ne
Yor
ork
and asked him something
about a mouthpiece and
kav
er
y
he wr
ote bac
ver
ery
back
wro
cordial letter calling
me ‘old dude
”
dude’’...
...”
Bill Bardin and Pete Allen from the
cover of Dick Oxtot’s Funky New
Orleans Jazz Band “Make Me A
Pallet On the Floor” c. 1971
Bardin: Yes.
Radlauer: What was that like?
Bardin: Well, ah, it was like meeting Louis Armstrong. I first heard him with Basie at the fair, and
again at Sweet's Ballroom. And I would, I talked to
him at Sweet's a little bit. Or stood around and
watched him put his trombone in its case anyway.
And much later I wrote, there was an article, when
he put his book out, Dickie Wells, Dickie Wells has a
book out...and there was an article on him in the
International Musician, the Union Magazine. So I
Photographer
unknown, but LP
cover by Nova
Graphics, Inc.
wrote to him care of local 802 in New York and
asked him something about a mouthpiece and he
wrote back a very cordial letter calling me "old
dude"..."ol' dude." And so we exchanged Christmas cards for a while. Then, 1978 I think it was, I
went to New York and Boston with my wife, Mili,
who was from Boston, and we went to that place
on the Upper West Side, in New York City,
8
The Frisco Cricket
called... Well Earl Warren and Dickie Wells had a
small band there, so I talked to him a little bit there
and heard him play. And he was playing, just as
nutty as ever. But he had been mugged by that
time. He was in a couple of muggings in his life
and it seemed like his stature was smaller. I also
saw him with Earl Hines, and talked to him when
Hines was at the Hangover Club.
Dickie Wells was really at the height of his
powers then. He was arranging for Hines, and
playing. What a band. That was before Hines
went into the Hangover for his long Dixieland stay.
Carter: Were you earning your living as a musician?
Bardin: I did for a while. I played at the clip joints
in the tenderloin. A couple of them, as I sail the
Chaperie and the streets of Paris. Later, I played at
one of the dime jigs in Oakland. That's a taxi dance
hall. Quite a few of the jazz players, or people
who later became jazz players, played at the dime
jig. You know what that is?
Radlauer: I've never heard that term used before. I
know about taxi dancing. If I get it right they
purchase like a ticket or a token and the girls
would collect it at the dance and.
Bardin: That's right.Yeah, it was...when I was
playing there, I played there in '48 to '49, roughly.
And it was twelve and a half cents a day. Each
dance lasted one minute, or maybe a minute and a
half.
Carter: And then the band would have to quickly
start another tune?
Bardin: Exactly. Lingle was the piano player,
when I started at the Broadway Dancing Academy. And he would work very hard at that. Lingle
was completely out of place in such a nonmusical
setting. Cause each tune lasted only one chorus or
a chorus and a half. But you learned a lot of tunes.
Carter: (Laughter) I bet. You've played them over
again.
Bardin: Yeah. And as I recall, at the Broadway,
there were the same mistakes at the same place
every night. (Laughter) The same fluffs. I knew
that on "Diane" I was going to miss the high note, I
never let myself down.
Carter: How many pieces were in the band?
Bardin: There were five pieces hired, but most of
the night, there were only four playing. Because it
Winter 2005
was continuous music and we had to take an intermission so many minutes per hour. I think it was
fifteen minutes per hour of playing time. So we'd
rotate. Sometimes I had to play drums, someone else
would have to play piano, and so forth and so on.
Radlauer: You worked with Dick Oxtot, didn't you?
Bardin: Oh, a lot.
Carter: During the fifties and sixties. When did you
first meet Dick?
Bardin: First met him in 1942. He and (Bill) Napier,
and Mielke, and a few others had their own thing
going. We had our thing going in Berkeley, well they
had theirs going in San Francisco. And I remember, I
first met him at a place called the Buckhorn I think
on Market Street, Upper Market in San Francisco.
They were rehearsing in the back room. Dick was
playing cornet then. And I remember being knocked
out... well not knocked out, but impressed with the
band, at how good they all sounded, particularly
Mielke. Considering Lou and Turk as being first
generation I think all the second generation guys
worked with Oxtot at one time or another. But in a
stint with Oxtot.
Carter: Yeah. Was he the leader of that Band?
Bardin: No I don't think so. Not at that time. Way
back, I don't think so. No I think there was a
woman, washboard player or something like that.
Radlauer: Why don't you talk about working with
Oxtot.
Bardin: I didn't work much with him when he was
playing the trumpet or the cornet. He, he contracted
hepatitis, yeah. And he was in the hospital and he
couldn't blow his cornet. So he started practicing the
banjo. And he liked it so much that he just stuck
with it and gave up the cornet.
Carter: We talking middle forties now?
Bardin: Yeah. And he's, he has the knack of getting
jobs. But sometimes he would hire me, and sometimes he would hire Mielke.
Carter: I played with him quite a bit in the late fifties,
and I had the feeling that he liked to change his
personnel fairly often.
Bardin: Well that's right. That's right. He did, toward the latter part of his career, oh well it's still
going on I guess his career... but at the point where
he's spent about fifteen years. Yeah he used to, just
for the sake of changing, liked to change personnel.
And I guess he did that, I guess that was the attitude
9
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
throughout his career. He liked variety.
Carter: So you belonged to one group, kind of at
the point when you met him with Pete Allen, and
so forth. He had another group, and these were
sort of a gradual amalgamation.
Bardin: Yeah. That's right. I was surprised that
there was a San Francisco group. And I guess
they were surprised that there was a Berkeley
group.
Carter: I wanted to ask, in San Francisco, when
you were living in San Francisco, that period, you
were pretty much only doing music, right?
Bardin: Yeah.
Carter: You didn't have a day job?
Bardin: No, that's right.
Carter: Did you think of yourself, did you plan, to
become a professional musician?
Bardin: I thought I was a professional musician!
with Marty Marsala. Of course Marty Marsala liked
the (Jack) Teagarden-type player. (Bob) Mielke
probably played with him.
Carter: What about (P. T.) Stanton and all those
guys? When did you get together with them?
Bardin: Well, at the fair, when I heard (Bob) Helm,
there was another listener about my age, and we
fell into conversation, and exchanged cards, and he
said he was a piano player - his name was Dick
Webb, a piano player. And they had a band that
played something like these guys - something like
Helm, Helm's band. And would I care to sit in with
them sometime? Sure! Sure I would!
So after six months or so nothing happened,
so I wrote him a postcard saying, "Hey, what's
happening?" and was invited to come out to
Bolinti's Barn where a fraternity dance was in
progress, in Lafayette. And they were P. T. (Stanton), Pete Allen, and others - Dick Webb, people no
longer playing. And that was the first time I ever
played with a "real" band - a good band. And, oh!
It just knocked me out.
Carter: P. T. was on cornet or trumpet?
Bardin: Yes, he was playing the cornet or trumpet,
and every now and then he would set it down and
pick up the guitar. Which added immeasurably to
the rhythm section sound - first time I ever played
with a four-piece rhythm section. And it was really
great, and that's how I got to know those guys.
Later on we had jam sessions in Pete Allen's
mother's living room, in Berkeley.
Radlauer: P. T. Stanton had a rather "earthy"
sound.
Bardin: Yes. Ah, he sounded much earthier as time
went on. I believe that he was a Rex Stewart fan. A
big Rex Stewart fan.
Carter: No kidding!
Bardin: Yeah. Because he would, ah, you know
how Rex Stewart sometimes would play a - a
phrase or, a long phrase of eighth-notes, but it
didn't have a bebop sound. It had a rather "dancing-around" sound like Bill Coleman used to get
sometimes. And P. T. would get that sound too. He
would play, ah, long phrases of eighth-notes and it
would really dance.
Carter: Hmm. My knowledge of him was that it
was very staccato - little bursts of notes too.
Bardin: Yeah. Well, he used to do, ah, other... He
“And so I w
ent t
ow
or
k in
went
to
wor
ork
aw
ar
ehouse
war
arehouse
tem
por
ar
il
y in Ric
hmond
empor
porar
aril
ily
Richmond
and t
hat t
em
por
ar
y job
that
tem
empor
porar
ary
o decades.
”
hed int
str
etc
into
decades.”
tre
tched
Carter: For life.
Bardin: I thought I was! Then, ah, I was living in
San Francisco when I was playing at dime jig for
awhile. And riding over in (Paul) Lingle's Model A
car. Well, ah, after Victor's and Roxie's, after the
Burt Bales job, let's see, what happened? I think I
went back to the dime jig for a little while - the
Broadway. And, ah, I don't really remember
whether I, the dime jig, was my last steady playing
job, or Victor's and Roxie's. I guess that shows you
that I was drinking too much, since I can't recall,
since they blend together in my mind! But, I didn't
have a playing job.
And so I went to work in a warehouse
temporarily in Richmond and that temporary job
stretched into decades. Where I was a day-worker
and taking casuals when I had the chance to.
Casuals and subbing. And occasionally the, being
hired first-call. I played a couple of times at the
Hangover with (Earl) Hines, a weekend, and, ah,
10
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
used to do rather less... it didn't sound as "jerky"
earlier. He never did sound smooth. He never did
sound like Buck Clayton or Harry James - playing
legato. He never had a "liquid" vibrato.
Carter: But did he listen to more New Orleans
stuff as he went along?
Bardin: Yes. Oh yes. Yeah, I believe that he was
a... well, we all were (Count) Basie fans, and still
are. Those of us who are still alive. And P. T. used
to do a very creditable job of playing Basie-like
piano.
Carter: Ah, really?
Bardin: Yes. But his trumpet playing, ah, really
got more angular as time went on. He was a fan
of Harry Edison, and Buck Clayton, and Rex
Stewart.
Radlauer: Bob Mielke told me that P. T. would get
a little lazy on the bandstand. And Mielke once
got mad at him and said "What are you doing,
you're not playing?" and he said "I'm playing
imaginary-lead."
Bardin: (Laughter)
Radlauer: Does that ring a bell with you at all?
Bardin: Yea, that's exactly the kind of thing P. T.
would say! One time he was trying to get a point
across to some other player and he said, "Think of
it as a series of one." (Laughter) He was always
coming up with gems like that!
Radlauer: I understand he was quite a character.
Bardin: Yes, well, deliberately so. He cultivated
his own character. One thing that he did on the
bandstand, not playing, he got directly from Bunk
Johnson, and I don't know how many New
Orleans players - trumpet players - used to do
this, but Bunk, at any time might just stop playing
and wipe his mouth off. Now I've seen other
bands like ah, I've seen this happen with other
bands since then. We didn't know what on earth
to do about that! (Laughter) Even with playing
with Bunk we didn't know what to do!
Radlauer: Tell me more about P. T. I know there
are lots of stories about him.
Bardin: Well. Where to begin? Well, he always,
from the time I first met him, he was around
nineteen I guess then, he cultivated a dissipated
image. He was an admirer of the Bix Biederbeck
life cycle I think. He thought Bix had had the right
idea - how to live. And he was...
Radlauer: Or, anyway, how to die!
Bardin: Yes, well, I think that P. T. was a little
disappointed to find himself carrying on after the
age of 30! It upset his plans. And, ah, you might
note that he did make short work of it after that.
He didn't live to the fullness of his life-span.
Carter: How old was he?
Bardin: When he died?
Carter: Yes.
Bardin: Let's see. I guess he died about 10 years
ago, didn't he?
Carter: Something like that.
Bardin: Well, he would have been about 60 I
guess.
Radlauer: But he hadn't played for a long time, I
understand.
Bardin: He hadn't played for sometime, oh, two or
three years I guess. Somewhere in there. Because
he had been, he had been on the wagon for a long
time, and he fell off.
Radlauer: Yea. I'm thinking of the... the Stone Age
Jazz Band was, I think, the mid-70s, late-70s,
about 78.
Bardin: Hmmmm. Let me think back. Yeah, that's
right. Yeah, they were playing right in there.
“He w
as on clar
ine
t,
was
clarine
inet,
Hots. he later changed
his name to "Hotso"
Casey from "Hots"
Radlauer: Yeah, and, in fact, it's been reissued on
Stomp Off. The Stone Age Jazz Band?
Bardin: I don't think this is a reissue. This is the
issue.
Radlauer: The first issue of rare material.
Carter: How would you, would describe the
evolution of your own style, I mean, sometimes
you have this big beautiful (Kid) Ory sound, and
did that come in at a certain period, etcetera...
Bardin: When I became aware of Ory! Ory's band
was at the C. I. O. Hall at 150 Golden Gate Avenue. Another great all time band. And then when
Scobey, Scobey became quite successful and well
known, and then so he started touring, and then
11
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
Burt (Bales) took a band in. It had Jack Minger,
me, (Bill) Dart, sometimes "Hotso" Casey. Do you
guys know him?
Radlauer: No. Tell me.
Bardin: He was, on clarinet, Hots. he later
changed his name to "Hotso" Casey from "Hots"
O'Casey (laughter) - another character! He was
not really a jazz player, but he played with plenty
of spirit. And he thought of his career as playing
with Anson Weeks, the society band? He played
saxophone and arranged for Anson Weeks. He
lived near the Union, and sometimes, the Union
headquarters is at 230 Jones Street in the Tenderloin in San Francisco, and he lived in a hotel near
there, and tended bar at the Union speakeasy in
the basement quite often. And, he was a little guy,
a small man, and when he used to get drunk he
liked to take off his glasses and lie on his back and
play his clarinet straight up into the air!
Carter: You get a lot of spit in your throat doing
that!
Bardin: I guess you would, yeah. I don't know
Hots noticed! Well, that was Hotso Casey.
Carter: Now, what year are we now at Victor's?
Bardin: About '48.
Radlauer: And that's about the time you had a
band there? Were you in a band there?
Bardin: Yeah, that was the band I was in. Burt's.
Burt Bales' band.
Radlauer: Do you remember what he called it? If
it did have a name?
Bardin: No, it didn't have a name.
Radlauer: Did you play with Scobey at all or a
related band.
Bardin: Not really, no.
Radlauer: Or Clancy (Hayes)?
Bardin: Ah, not really. Just casuals. I played a few
casuals with Clancy. Clancy and Turk both had
the knack of getting along with rich people. And
Clancy belonged to a club called the Family Club
which I understand is pretty posh and exclusive
in San Francisco. So, ah, so Clancy got some, a
few good casuals down the Peninsula.
I remember we played at Ty Cobb's one
time. Ty Cobb lived in Atherton. Everybody lived
in Atherton. And ah...
Carter: The baseball player.
Bardin: Yeah. U-huh. He was a kick. He was an
affable old guy. Again, meeting him and reading
about him, it seems like two different people. I
couldn't see this nice old man deliberately trying to
cut other players with his spikes, you know?
Carter: You know I've heard the atmosphere
around the Union hall described by Girsh (Squire
Girshback) who used to play Pinochle there and, I
mean, do you have memories of that? Did guys get
jobs by just being on the spot when a gig came in?
Bardin: That's right. Yeah. There was a bar, I
referred to it as the speakeasy, but it ran, it ran all
day. There was a bar in the basement of the Union,
and there was this room off to one side where some
of the "old hands" would play cards and people
would hang out at the bar. And, ah, sometimes
someone would call out, "Somebody needs a trumpet player! Anybody want the job?"
Carter: Somebody! What's this, the San Francisco
Symphony? Not that!
Bardin: Well, you know, you'd find out. Yeah,
"Yeah, where is it?" And "At the Yacht Club." "Ok,
I'll take it." You know, things like that. Later, at
two o'clock they'd lock the door and there were
quite a few people who were issued keys to the
front door of the Union, and so you'd go in. I had a
key, and you'd go in and go down the stairs and
there'd be another closed door, and you'd give a
knock, which I forget what it was, but it was a
coded knock. And the peep-hole would open and
an eye would look out (laughter) - just like the
movies. And it would open...
Carter: Because it was after hours?
Bardin: Yeah, because it was after hours. And it
would go till, oh, till everyone, till most people felt
like going home - maybe three, four in the morning.
And that was kind of jolly.
Radlauer: Thanks for taking the time out to come
down to KALW and talk with us about some of
your memories of jazz in the San Francisco area
between 1940 and the present.
Bardin: I've really enjoyed it.
Radlauer: And so, I want to thank Bill Carter also,
Bill? For being here. This is Dave Radlauer at
KALW FM, San Francisco, November 5th, 1994,
concluding an interview with Bill Bardin, trombonist for many years in the San Francisco Bay Area,
interview also conducted by Bill Carter of the San
Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation. e
12
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
Donations to SFTJF—2004
The San Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation gratefully acknowledges these generous financial contributions during
the period from October 31, 2003 through December 31, 2004
Angel Level—$1000 and above
William G. Alhouse
Charles Campbell
William Carter
Charles N. Huggins
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Bob Giles
Jay Last
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Herb West
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Dr. William M. Gould
Arthur E. Johnson
Robert C. Lamborn
Eugene Miller
Hal Plimpton
Carl L. Randolph
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Aficionado Level—under $100
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Parker Mitton
13
Dick Mushlitz
John Neal
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Doug Parker
J. Dean Parnell
Dr. & Mrs. Nicholas Petrakis
R. Don Remington
Emery H. Rogers
David & Florence Strange
Jo & Sal Terrusa
Bee Thorpe
Andrew Wittenborn
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
Announcing
Mee
t Me A
t McGoon
Meet
At
McGoon’’s
The SFTJF is proud to introduce and offer the new book Meet Me At
McGoons by Pete Clute and Jim Goggin, the authors of The Great Jazz
Revival. As it’s subtitle states, it is “Another Jazz Scrapbook” of virtually
everone who ever appeared or performed, and every event that ever
happened, at the series of clubs named “Earthquake McGoon’s” run by
Pete Clute and Turk Murphy, and the home of the Turk Murphy Jazz
Band for almost 35 years.
It is a fascinating and really fun book. See the order form on the
facing page. SFTJF members get special pricing as always. e
About the San Francisco Traditional Jazz
Foundation
What is the Foundation?
Created in 1981 as an archive of several thousand items relating to the jazz revival begun in San Francisco about 1939,
the Foundation now seeks to enhance that collection and extend its uses. A wider aim is to help foster live, high quality
traditional jazz, regionally and worldwide.
What does the Foundation do?
Current activities include archival preservation, supporting live events and broadcasts, collaborating with other jazz
and educational institutions, and developing new products and media applications.
Although the Foundation lacks the funding to open its archive to the general public, other means are being found to
make its resources available. For example, historic recordings and documents are being made available to radio stations;
and consumer products such as posters, books and tapes are being publicly offered.
Who is involved?
You are. Membership is $25 per year and is dated on a calendar year basis. Benefits include this quarterly newsletter,
invitations to special events and availability of Foundation products (often at exceptionally low prices).
Donations welcomed
The San Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation accepts gifts and grants in many forms, including historical items
which shed further light on the history of traditional jazz on the West Coast, such as recordings, music, newspaper
clippings, photographs and correspondence. Contributions of materials or funds are tax-deductible under IRS ruling
status 509(a)(2).
SF Jazz on the Web
The San Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation has an ever-expanding web site. The site includes sound files and
photos of many San Francisco (and other) jazz figures from the 1930s to the present. Please visit us at www.sftradjazz.org.
Join (or rejoin) the San Francisco Traditional Jazz Foundation today to begin taking advantage of reservations to
special events, discounts on selected jazz books and recordings, and a year’s subscription to The Frisco Cricket. If you are
already a member, give the gift of Foundation membership to a friend! Memberships are dated on a calendar year basis.
Use the form at right.
14
The Frisco Cricket
Winter 2005
Pr
oduct Or
der F
or
m & 2005 Member
ship/R
ene
wal Application
Product
Order
For
orm
Membership/R
ship/Rene
enew
Name __________________________________________________________________________
Address ________________________________________________________________________
E-mail _______________________________ Phone (
) ____________________________
Compact Discs
($12.99 for members, $15.99 for non-members)
Quantity
Bob Helm with the El Dorado Jazz Band—1955* ........................................... (SFTJF CD-110) ___
Amount
$ ______
*Specially priced two-CD set. Members: $15.99; non-members: $19.99.
Bob Mielke and his Bearcats ......................................................................................................... (SFCD-3)
The Legendary Russ Gilman ................................................................................ (SFTJF CD-109)
Clancy Hayes—Satchel of Song .................................................................................... (SFTJF CD-108)
Turk Murphy Jazz Band—Wild Man Blues .......................................................... (SFTJF CD-107)
Lu Watters Yerba Buena Jazz Band, Vol 2, 1946–1947 ................................... (SFTJF CD-106)
Lu Watters Yerba Buena Jazz Band, Vol 1, 1937–1943 ................................... (SFTJF CD-105)
Turk Murphy Jazz Band—Euphonic Sounds ......................................................... (SFTJF CD-104)
Turk Murphy Jazz Band—Weary Blues ................................................................ (SFTJF CD-103)
Turk Murphy Jazz Band—In Hollywood ............................................................... (SFTJF CD-102)
Turk Murphy Jazz Band—Live at Carson Hot Springs ......................................... (SFTJF CD-101)
Turk Murphy Jazz Band—At The Italian Village, with Claire Austin ................. (MMRC CD-11)
Lu Watters Yerba Buena Jazz Band—At Hambone Kelly’s, 1949–1950 ........ (MMRC CD-10)
Books
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Jazz on the Barbary Coast, by Tom Stoddard
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Pioneer jazzmen reminisce about old San Francisco and its role as a wellspring of jazz
Jazz West 2, by K.O. Ecklund, published by Donna Ewald
The A-to-Z guide to west coast jazz music; a unique source.
Preservation Hall, by William Carter
Lavish 315 pp. Softbound. Drew national rave reviews. Autographed on request.
The Great Jazz Revival, by Pete Clute & Jim Goggin
The story of the San Francisco jazz revival
Meet Me At McGoon’s, by Pete Clute & Jim Goggin
Another Jazz Scrapbook by the authors of The Great Jazz Revival
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