Hikaru analisis - comment 5

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Le baiser d'Actarus a Vénusia - Forums Goldorak
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Sujet: I e baiser d'Actarus a Vénusia
:
' Mogwail
Messages postés : 7
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Poste
b B/os/2o}4 t6:t2:54
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prévenir les modérateurs
Bas
ffirdSr.:ip
Bonjou r,
Dans un dossier sur Goldorak (www.multimania.com/soufron/)
,dans la section "Anime", j'ai lu que dans la série japonaise,
:qrund
Actarus @ nun* enfin la paix tant espérée, dans
l'épisode 74, et pour célébrer la victoire il donne un long baiser
'passionne
u Venrri". $.,s
Pourquoi toutes ces scènes coupe ou tronque et tous ces
'dialogues qui on une traduction approximative ?
Lors de la sortie des DVD ne serait pas mieux de reprendre les
voix des acteurs principaux surtouts ceux qui colle bien a leur
personnage et de refaire les textes comme les a écrie le père de
Goldorak.
Dantus
1-S -g 3l
b B/os/2oat 16:31:41
SÉ
Moi j'avais lu que ce baiser n'a jamais été dessine et en tout cas
n'a jamais été vu méme au Japon ! Donc il n'y a à mon avis
aucune chance qu'on le voyent sur le dvd vf ! N'oublions pas que
la vf diffusée en 78 n'était pas censurée, et donc normalement
elle correspondra bien aux videos remasterisées du dvd
japonais
Ceci dit, j'aimerais qu'ils mettent la présentation du golgoth à
chaque début d'épisode comme dans la version originale ou la
version arabe
A ce sujet, mini quizz flash :
Comment dit-on cornofulgur en arabe ?
How do you say Space Thunder in arabic language ?
El
poste
!
!
Traitre de Minos
!
Piepie
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1910512004
Le baiser d'Actarus a Venusia - Forums Goldorak
El
Posté le 73/O5/20O4 77:OI:Og
Pagina 2 di
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iBCA*L.JÉ
Moije sais...
Natizemocfu
@
r#l Eir
Non
(E]
lg u
r"
lryjw -1J smile/fuck.gif
je plaisante biensur!!!
Bisous
!
IS*[& S F=r#É
lÉl poste te r3/o5/2oo4 2o :03 : 15
On m'a confirmé que cette scène n'existait pas récemment.
Duke Fleed
Messages postes : 240
OB
Suzi
I am not an alien but I am unique
*3 i g {f É
lÉl poste è14/os/2oo40l:01:13
First, hello Dantus and welcome to the forum.
It seems to me that you are interested in the rabic version.
Anyway, the answer to your question:
Space Thunder in arabic is said like this "Ra'd Al- fada'a" where
ra'd means thunder, and al-fada'a means Space.
And by the way, Piepie, mocking a language that you have no
idea about is not nice or respectful of those who speak it. If you
don't know, say you don't know, but you don't have to make fun
of some people's language which is revered as part of national
identity. I am sure that you wouldn't like someone to mock the
french language, and dignified behaviour calls for respecting
others so that you may be respected.
As for the claimed kiss between DF and Hikaru,
just a rumour and it never existed.
I
believe it is
--Message edite par suzi le 2004-05-14 01:07:48-Our asprrations are our achievements
David
€
Métamorphose
poste
é A/o5/2004
o2:ol:57
m --{ 5 {r É
!
Réponse
adit:
:
by the way, Piepie, mocking a language that you have no
about rs not nice or respectful of those who speak it. If you
't know, say you don't know, but you don't have to make
of some people's language which is revered as part of
ional identity. I am sure that you wouldn't like someone to
the french language, and dignified behaviour calls for
others so that you may be respected.
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Suzi, I think you're a bit tough with Piepie..,. I think he didn't
mean to be disrespectful with you or the arabic language.,." nor
moking.... And if you feel offensed, I'm sure he will make you
apologies to you
Suzi
Messages postés
:
lil
173
poste te r4/os/zoa4 o6:51:30
ilÉ$g*É
I am sure he didn't mean it David, in fact I don't think that he
even thought about what he said before writing it, but that is
how his reply would be perceived.
And actaully with the prefix "Natiz" that he used......what do you
think that an arab speaking person would perceive as a hidden
message?
I am not offened and I am not after apologies. I am just after
mutual respect that is all!
--Message edité par suzi le 2OO4-05-14 06:53:33-Our aspirations are our achievements
Ít^
-g
Posté le 14/05/2004 13:30:33
*ft$SrSÉ
Dear Suzi,
I am sorry that my question about the arabic pronounciation of
space thunder has raised such nasty answer. I don't reproach
anything to piepie because it's a bad way we have in France to
learn insults in many languages. I've done the same with most
languages I have learned I We shall learn to say "I love you" or
even "thanks" instead I
My interest about the arabic version of grendizer came when I
wanted to find a good version of the famous 27th episode. The
arabic video was very good and I tried to put the french voices
on it, But it was a failure, the arabic version was a bit longer
At the same time i discovered that this arabic version was very
close to the japanese one when I recognized the names
dukefleed, blacky, grendizer etc.
!
I was quite impressed and even if I don't understand arabic I
wanted to know a bit more about it, in order to talk about it with
my maghrebian friends.
At last, I am happy that youth in so many countries had this
common hobby for this long horned robot. It would be nice if
today's youth may have another so good worldwide known
cartoon
Something that would replace theses nasty pokemons ;-)
!
Shukran Suzi
Traitre de Minos
(#
David
Métamorphose I
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!
Posté te 15/05/2004 01:48:05
iR-
s*É
am sure he didn't mean it David, in fact I don't think that he
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thought about what he said before writing it, but that is
w his reply would be perceived.
-:-,14,ry
ci actaully with the prefix "Natiz" that he used......what do
ou think that an arab speaking person would perceive as a
en message?
I am not offened and I am not after apologies. I am just after
I respect that is all!
OK, you're right too Suzi....
I still don't know what the prefix "Natiz" means in arabic....
H Posté le t5/05/2004 Ot:57:45
ry,S Ér {i
I thought that nazdin'o'moc (that i knew as naghdinamok in
french) can be translated as "I insult your mother's religion".
Even if it doesn't speak a lot to us it seems to be a very rude
Dantus
É
insult in arabic.
Of course I'm maybe making a mistake, I only know a few words
in arabic and sadly I've learned this sentence
I
,rr' S*ill
maybe confirm
--Message edité par dantus le 2004-05-15 01:58: 12--
Traitre de Minos
David
@
Xé!e.e;n!g.re1
!
Poste le r5/05/200
4 02:36:24
is$&gÉ
Réponse :
sadit:
thought that nazdin'o'moc (that i knew as naghdinamok in
rench) can be translated as "I insult your mother's religion".
ven if it doesn't speak a lot to us it seems to be a very rude
ult in arabic.
course I'm maybe making a mistake, I only know a few
in arabic and sadly I've learned this sentence !
,,Ct*,,, maybe conrirm
edité par dantus le 2004-05-15 01:58:12--
I think this is the explanation.... it's because it isn't written
it's pronounced....
Dantus
El
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as
fficg$IÉ
Arabic is talked in so many countries ! There are many different
pronounciation from lebanese to morrocian through egyptian
and tunisian.
As far as I remember, in arabic the most important are the
consonant (bcdf) and not the vowel (aeiou). Of course I give
latin letters for an example but it was to explain.
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Traitre de Minos
Suzi
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173
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16/05/2004
oe:3e:37
fA ijÉ & {*
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No worries Dantus and David!
Yes, Dantus you are right "nadizomoc' is avery bad insult in the
arabic language. But I can't remember what exact dialect it
applies to but in Egyptian we have a similar one, and I tell you it
does imply the meaning of "cursing your mother's religion". In a
religious society like the middle-east I guess you could realise
the impact that such an insult. You just never say it, because it
implies a deep insult to the honour and dignity of the mother.
And as you say there are so many dialects of arbic but the one
used in Grendizer is the formal one with a mild-moderate
complexity.
Anyway, yes you are right the arbic version is perhaps the
closest to the Japaenese one, and if you understand arabic the
standard of language used in it is very sophisticated with many
pieces of informal peotry. From a language point of view it is
very rich and beautiful.
I will tell you more about it in a later post, as I have just
returned from a fossicking trip and I need a good shower. The
good thing I was so lucky, I found a 12 ct sapphire stone! I still
can't belíeve it. I am just a beginner in gem hunting, but they
tell me that is a very rare find! Beginner's luck I suppose.
Our aspirations are our achievements
Dantus
El
Posté te t6/05/2oo4 10: 19 :02
Réponse
ziadit:
&rèr S
#,*
É
:
worries Dantus and David!
es, Dantus you are right "nadizomoc' is avery bad insult in the
bic language. But I can't remember what exact dialect it
ies to but in Egyptian we have a similar one, and I tell you
does imply the meaning of "cursing your mother's religion". I
religious society like the middle-east I guess you could realise
impact that such an insult. You just never say it, because it
ies a deep insult to the honour and dignity of the mother.
as you say there are so many dialects of arbic but the one
in Grendizer is the formal one with a mild-moderate
xity.
nyway, yes you are right the arbic version is perhaps the
to the Japaenese onef and if you understand arabic the
ndard of language used in it is very sophisticated with many
ieces of informal peotry. From a language point of view it is
rich and beautiful.
will tell you more about it in a later post, as I have just
ned from a fossicking trip and I need a good shower. The
thing I was so lucky, I found a 12 ct sapphire stone! I still
't believe it. I am just a beginner in gem hunting, but they
me that is a very rare find! Beqinner's luck I su
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.I am happy to learn that you became rich ;-)
I think iwon't learn arabic in a soon future, iam quite busy and
I need to learn a lot in my work. Anyway I am interested in
arabic culture and all the influences on our european culture.
.I was amazed when I learned that most of ancient greek texts
from philosophy to mathematics and astronomy were in fact
braught to us by the arabs through spain ! And in mathematics
they brought us the zero and invented the decimals.
In french we have many words with arabic etymology like
"amiral" coming from "amir al bar".
In astronomy/ names like aldebaran, altair, betelgueuse come
from arabic language.
i think that this should be a message to isolationists that want to
separate and divide people on earth
!
PS : Sorry for a so "off-topic" discussion, I am so enthousiastic
about this subject
!
Gerdha
Messages postés
:
155
Traitre de Minos !
r:l
lEl Poste le L6/O5/2OO4 16:11:39
ffiHsffiÉ
Hikaru still rules!!!
ntus a dit
:
the same time I discovered that this arabic version was very
to the japanese one when I recognized the names
kefleed, blackv, qrendizer etc.
Just for your information, Dantus, also the ltalian version is very
faithful to VO, We also kept the same Japanese names, apart the
"goods" one+Hydargos, and we had a quiet faithful translation
and adaptation of the original dialogues.
Dantus
lEl
Poste
b
16/os/2004 Le:53:57
1B#Sr*É
Réponse :
adit:
ust for your information, Dantus, also the Italian version is
ry faithful to VO. We also kept the same Japanese names,
part the "goods" one+Hydargos, and we had a quiet faithful
and
ation of the oriqinal dialoques.
Great ! Learning italian would me much easier for me (french is
my mother tongue). It's a good thing to learn with an intersting
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media. I've learned much more english with marvel comics than
i did with school books ;-)
A few months ago, i found a piece of an episode dubbed in
german I Usually I don't like to listen german but this time it
was quite good ! i noticed that Duke fleed was called actaros
and grendizer is called GOLDORRRAKKEU ;-)
I didn't know that Grendizer was broadcasted in germany ?
Maybe it was in dutchland ?
Traitre de Minos
!
ry
rî
Gerdha
Messages postés
:
,sl{*É
lÉl Poste le 16/05/2O04 2O:39:33
For what the main subject of this thread is concerned... in VO
there is no kiss for sure, the scene of Grendizer flying in
stratosphere after destructing King Vega's spacecraft fades in
the "goodbye" one together with the BGM, so Toei did not censor
anything for the foreign edition - they should have redone the
final with a new mixing, and given how Grendizer got exported
for a casualty I don't see Toei having time and reasons to cut
any scene in the anime for export purpose. I have no idea where
and how and when this rumour about the kiss started, you
should ask the article writer how he got such a wrong
information.
155
But anyway, the fact that the we are never shown an explicit
kiss between Actarus and Venusia is not such an issue to me.
Grendizer is not a soap opera/ and anyway we receive hints
throughout the whole anime that Daisuke and Hikaru are in love
for each other, and that their sentiment is very profound and
strong and real. The lovestory starts around ep3, and evolves
slowly up to becoming something serious around ep23, for then
transforming itself in deep love from ep27 on (eps 37-38-39-4752-72-73 to say a few in particular are there to prove this to
us). I have already posted in the old forums a deep analysis
about Hikaru Makiba character, and I won't bore you anymore
with this subject. But actually to see that kiss (if it was
designed, which is not) would have been somehow an
unnecessary scene to me. The entire Ufo Robot Grendizer story
tells us about a wonderful lovestory between two incredible
fíctional characters, it's one of the main plot and themes of the
anime, and it's also one the essential reasons why I personally
love this cartoon after so many years.
@+
Gerdha
Gerdha
Messages postés
:
l3
155
Poste
b $/05/2004
2o:53'.48
iBrd$l$$É
t ! Learning italian would me much easier for me (french is
y mother tongue). It's a good thing to learn with an intersting
. I've learned much more english with marvel comics than
did with school books
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Unfortunately, D/Visual is not going to include the original 78
dubbing in the coming issue of Goldrake DVD (see my other
posts for details). So, if you like to know that edition, you could
search on e-bay, there are fans selling DVDs coming from VHS
of that edition.
Réponse
:
few months ago, i found a piece of an episode dubbed in
erman ! Usually I don't like to listen german but this time it
quite good I I noticed that Duke fleed was called actaros
nd grendizer is called GOLDORRRAKKEU ;-)
didn't know that Grendizer was broadcasted in germany ?
it was in dutchland ?
I don't think that Grendizer got aired in Germany (at least this
country is not listed in the Mazinger Bible), even if I know a
couple of sites in german. But the anime got aired in Czech
Republic and Switzerland, where German is spoken, even if I
don't know whether with a subtitled or dubbed version.
But we are going off topic... do you want to open another thread
for this?
Dantus
El
No
{B &{tÉ
thanks, I didn't keep this chunk of the episode it was too
Poste te 76/05/2004 22:76:58
short. So there is no way to know what language it was sorry
Traitre de Minos
Suzi
El
Poste
!
!
b ú/05/2004 o2i3li23
rh$&$*É
am happy to learn that you became rich ;-)
think iwon't learn arabic in a soon future, iam quite busy and
need to learn a lot in my work. Anyway I am interested in
rabic culture and all the influences on our european culture.
was amazed when I learned that most of ancient greek texts
philosophy to mathematics and astronomy were in fact
raught to us by the arabs through spain ! And in mathematics
brought us the zero and invented the decimals.
n french we have many words with arabic etymology like
amrral" coming from "amir al bar".
n astronomy, names like aldebaran, altair, betelgueuse come
om arabic language.
think that this should be a message to isolationists that want
separate and divide people on earth !
http
:
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843 - 1 239 -6 1 3 8 - 0. h tm
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Pagina
les : Sorry for a so "off-topic" discussion, I am so enthousiastic
I
di 9
I
Well, I am impressed that you know all this about the influence
of the arabs on European culture. Any time you like to know
something about arabic Ianguage or culture, I will be happy to
answer.
By the way, I have not become "so rich" yet. I guess I can't still
understand/appreciate the value of my find. I just went
fossicking for the fun and the endurance of the experience.
I know nothing about gems other than there are good and bad
quality stones. I guess you could apply the saying "He gave the
earrings to the one without ears" to the situation, if you know
what I mean.
But I enjoyed it even if we had a rough start to the day as we
had our little Corolla stuck in the bottom of a Creek, and I had to
lift off its front while friend reversed it back.
So it was a good reward in its sentimental value more than its
actual value.
Anyway, sorry to be off topic but anytime you have a question
and/or inquiry about the arbic grendizer, I would be more than
happy to answer.
Our aspirations are our achievements
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Sujetl Le paiser d'Actarus a Vénusia
Posté le L7/O5/2O04 0B:45:06
W$Rioe
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erévenir les modérateurs
13$Sr*É
Réponse :
adit:
anyway, the fact that the we are never shown an explicit
s between Actarus and Venusia is not such an issue to me.
rendizer is not a soap opera, and anyway we receive hints
roughout the whole anime that Daisuke and Hikaru are in
each other, and that their sentiment is very profound and
rong and real. The lovestory starts around ep3, and evolves
wly up to becoming something serious around ep23, for then
nsforming itself in deep love from ep27 on (eps 37-38-391,-52-72-73 to say a few in particular are there to prove this to
). I have already posted in the old forums a deep analysis
bout Hikaru Makiba character, and I won't bore you anymore
th this subject. But actually to see that kiss (if it was
signed, which is not) would have been somehow an
scene to me. The entire Ufo Robot Grendizer story
ells us about a wonderful lovestory between two incredible
nal characters, it's one of the main plot and themes of the
ime, and it's also one the essential reasons why I personally
this cartoon after so manv vears.
Whereas I agree with most of what you said but i could still
understand why some still need to see this alleged kiss. We are
humans after all, and therefore we like assertaining certain
things in certain ways.
To give you an example, everyone knows about the deep love
story that tied the heart of Prince Fredrick of Denmark to that of
the previously Australian Mary Donaldson, and even though they
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'ended up marrying last Friday, everyone still wanted to see
.them kiss; and all went ecstatic when they did in the palace
balcony after the wedding ceremony infront of all the Danish
'crowds and the tv cameras.
:It is a natural expectation in a love story (or at least that is how
.many of us like to see the love confirmed with a kiss), and that
:is why many fans have been pondering about it, and yes it is
,worth asking why didn't they draw it in the anime. Nagai is not a
,reserved conservative artist as far as I know, and if a kiss was
:portrayed between Naida nad Daisuke in ep 25 then why not
between Hikaru and Daisuke?
Despite all the evidence of the love between them, the question
.:is still worth being asked, why wasn't there a kiss between
;them?
I
l,tessaSe ed té par
suz e 2004 05 17 08:48:15
Gerdha
Messages postés
:
175
Oh Suzi, I never meant to say that I don't understand people
.who would have liked to see an explicit kiss between Actarus
,and Venusia. I personally WOULD have loved to see it too!!!
,'\_^ To kiss is a natural way for two persons in love to
communicate each other their feelings, so in Grendizer case it
would have been logical for the authors to design it. But I simply
'meant in my post that I don't anyway NEED to see a kiss in the
:anime to be aware about Daisuke & Hikaru's lovestory, as the
whole script talks about it and we can understand that from
Lvarious hints and happenings. Just as in everyday life, where it's
.not needed to see anybody (and I am not talking about royal
,couples only, despite the fact that I understand people loving to
iwatch royals acting as normal persons - like if they are special
;people!) kissing as the ONLY proof about the feelings shared by
partners, as there are tons of other hints which could let guess
their sentiments,
a
'I mean, duríng the years I have read and heard tons of
that, as Daisuke and Hikaru are never
LGrendizer fans affirming
,shown acting according to what lovers do (embracing, kissing,
etc), that was a clear proof that he didn't love her and she had
hopelessly feelings for him. Well, my post was meant to explain
:that even without designing anything explicitly we are able
anyway - from images and VO dialogues - be sure that Daisuke
and Hikaru love each other with a sentiment which bonds them
very profoundly: there's a very beautiful lovestory going on in
Grendizer, and it's one of the main plots of the anime and
furthermore explains a lot of happenings in episodes. To design
that kiss at the end of the anime would have been great, but
anyway it would have not be a "needed proof" of the lovestory
at all.
Anyway,it,sindeedinterestingtonoticethatsuchmodestyis
strange in a work coming from Go Nagai. It would be surely an
interesting question to pose to him, but I think some
explanations can be found anyway. First, Nagai's robotic animes
are all very modest - apparently. In MazingerZ are indeed
designedsometimesfunnysexyscenesbutneverthelessthey
are placed in a "teeny" atmosphere" (please note that MZ was
produced shortly after Cutey Honey). But later in Great Mazinger
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:- a more dramatic anime - there's nothing similar despite
'Tetsuya and June have officially a lovestory going on. Nothing is
shown at all also in Getters (where nevertheless the love theme
is absent) and Jeeg (where instead the feeling towards Hiroshi
iand Flora is developed in the second part of the cartoon). So I
'would say that Nagai purposely avoided "love scenes" in its
robotic works, despite he introduced the love theme several
itimes in them. Actually, it's true that in Great Mazinger, Jeeg
-and Grendizer the "love" theme is one of the main forces which
drive characters actions, but without in any case showing
,anything explicitly. Which "is" a strange attitude from Nagai
,indeed. I tend to believe that with the robotic narrative cycle he
tried to be more experimental, trying to be "sensual" instead of
"sexual" if you take the picture. nOout Jeeg and Grendizer in
:particular, he and Katsuta were payed for creating anime for
kids, and instead they used them for developing adult thematics.
:
In fact, Japanese kids could not understand completely all the
,meanings hidden in those stories and those anime had all less
success than expected, But those who saw them could not forget
anyway.... I have just had the lucky opportunity to meet a
:Japanese guy who watched Grendizer in 1975 as a kid, and he
"remembers" it very well.... Including the fact that he "knew"
that Daisuke and Hikaru had a lovestory going on... ^_^
Finally, you are right Suzi: in reality a kiss is designed in
Grendizer, and it's placed in ep25 between Daisuke and Naida.
Actually, it's the only kiss we face in whole Nagai's robotic arc.
So it should mean something.... It's strange really from a
narrative perspective: no "adult" kiss in 6 whole robotic anìmes
but between Daisuke and Naida. I guess this would need a
proper explanation, and surely I am going to express my opinion
when I have finally enough spare time to write my ep25
analysis... hopefully in a few weeks... (crossing fingers...).
--Message edité par gerdha le 2004-05-18 07:53:10--
Suzi
Messages postés
:
198
lil
Posté te t9/05/2004 o6:24:tI
ffitd*rf*É
Réponse :
adit:
nally, you are right Suzi: in reality a kiss is designed in
izer, and it's placed in ep25 between Daisuke and Naida.
ually, it's the only kiss we face in whole Nagai's robotic arc.
it should mean something.... It's strange really from a
rrative perspective: no "adult" kiss in 6 whole robotic animes
t between Daisuke and Naida. I guess this would need a
explanation, and surely I am going to express my
nion when I have finally enough spare time to write my ep25
(crossi
... ilofjeruily rfinr d
few weeKS...
a rew
weeks... (crosstnq
nnqers..
Or it could simply indicate "censorship" andf or restrictions that
were applied to the rest of the anime after ep 25. That is why it
was never repeated between DF and Hikaru. A kiss could have
been easily well placed at the end of ep 37 but there was
nothing....
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I wouldn't really put too much money and analysis of the kiss in
ep 25 because for me it does not reflect "love" in its pure sense,
and I don't want to repeat myself on that issue but it will be
interesting to read your analysis.
When there is love, there is 1ife......
LVD
E], poste re 2o/os/2o04 04:43:53
IBH&*lrrÉ
mais le fait qu'il n'y ait pas de baiser ne rend t'il pas cet amour
plus beau encore? Du debut a la fin, la relation Daisuke-Hikaru
est plus que platonique, a savoir un amour idealise. Certains
auraient peut-etre ete un peu "decus" de voir une telle scene
entre eux. Je vais prendre un exemple dans un autre manga,
City Hunter. Sur les 35 volumes du manga, RIEN(en fait si, Ryo
et Kaori s'embrassent une fois, mais une vitre les separe) Ce qui
a du frustrer pas mal de fans(moi y compris). Mais avec le recul,
on se dit " a quoi bon? Qu'est-ce que cela aurait apporte de plus
a I'histoire?" C'est la meme chose pour Grendizer, je pense que
I'absence de baiser sublime cet amour.
Duke Fleed
El
Euphoriens pour toujours
Poste te27/05/2oo4 01:54:10
iA$$ì{l hr$É
Tu as peut-etre raison LVD. Mais peut-etre les scénaristes
auraient ils dú créer une scène ou les personnages, notemment
Actarus et Vénusia donc, se prennent dans les bras, ou quelque
'chose comme ga et entretiennent I'espoir qu'ils se reverront un
jour. Le départ étant un déchirement, tout le monde aurait eu le
coeur moins gros, y compris les téléspectateurs.
--Message edité par duke fleed le 2004-05-21 01:59:45--
OB
LVD
ffi
r-at
Messz
,$ #
li=i
ton point de vue, mais Grendizer n'a jamais ete
une serie particulierement gaie(hormis les passages comiques
des premiers episodes) Le fait que ce soit "dur" est en accord
avec le ton general du DA, enfin je pense.
É
Je comprends
Gandal
Ei
Posté le 2I/o5/2004 10:25:59
rS$$,*urÉ
J'aurais tendance à ètre d'accord avec LVD. UFO Robot Grendizer
est une série dure où beaucoup de gens souffrent (notamment
Duke Fleed...).Je ne vois pas bien ce qu'aurait apporté à la série
un baiser entre Vénusia et Actarus... D'ailleurs, j'ai bien
I'impression qu'il n'y a que Vénusia qui soit transie d'amour pour
Duke. Soit Actarus n'est pas amoureux, soit il I'est mais ne
préfère pas s'engager dans ce genre d'histoire puisqu'il met sans
cesse sa vie en danger etc ; la série ne donne pas de réponse
claire à ce sujet. En tout cas, ils ont eu pas mal de fois I'occasion
de fricoter tous les deux et ils ne I'ont pas fait. Actarus a
d'ailleurs souvent "repoussé" les avances de Vénusia ce qui me
fait dire que ce baiser n'a pas lieu d'ètre puisque Actarus n'a
apparement pas de sentiments amoureux pour Vénusia. Selon
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Le baiser d'Actarus a Venusia - Forums Goldorak
Pagina 5 di
moi, c'est plus I'amour d'un grand frère qui transparait chez
Actarus, et rien d'autre...
What you may have learned and what you think you know...
fè;,9 Sr $f
lEl Poste te 21/os/2}04 15:50:39
Hmm, Gerdha, I think it is time to re-post your Hikaru MM!
É
6
Live long and prosper ...
Stéphane Dumas
lH
*a$s.{}É
b 22/05/2004 Ot:o4:45
Sans vouloir dévoiler trop de "spoilers", le fanfic de Bernard "le
retour de Goldorak" au site Triomphe dffildo:uk va résoudre le
Poste
FJú.!N
mystère de la relation Actarus-Vénusia
Suzi
Messages postés
:
198
H
posté te 24/05/20o4 02:46:12
.{ * l
W **Sf
ffi$&*É
Réponse :
ladit:
'aurais tendance à ètre d'accord avec LVD. UFO Robot
rendizer est une série dure où beaucoup de gens souffrent
notamment Duke Fleed...). Je ne vois pas bien ce qu'aurait
pporté à la série un baiser entre Vénusia et Actarus...
ailleurs, j'ai bien I'impression qu'il n'y a que Vénusia qui soit
nsìe d'amour pour Duke. Soit Actarus n'est pas amoureux,
il I'est mais ne préfère pas s'engager dans ce genre
stoire puisqu'il met sans cesse sa vie en danger etc ; la sé
donne pas de réponse claire à ce sujet. En tout cas, ils ont
pas mal de fois I'occasion de fricoter tous les deux et ils ne
'ont pas fait. Actarus a d'ailleurs souvent "repoussé" les
de Vénusia ce qui me fait dire que ce baiser n'a pas
ieu d'étre puisque Actarus n'a apparement pas de sentiments
reux pour Vénusia. Selon moi, c'est plus l'amour d'un
frère qui transparait chez Actarus, et rien d'autre...
Allow me to disagree Gandal, Daisuke deeply loved Hikaru (kiss
'or no kiss). I can understand that the french version has covered
this fact to some extent and made Hikaru appear as if she was
:imposing her feelings on him most
of the time, and he returned
none to her. But let me say that Actarus of the french version is
not Daisuke/Duke Fleed of the VO, arabic and italian versions.
True love is not reflected in sweet talk and kisses, but in looks
and actions, and if you would study Daisuke's actions, reactions
and intonations towards Hikaru in any situation you can only
deduce that he loved her, and deeply too.
Otherwise give me one good reason why he was so anatagonistic
to her joining the combat whereas he "demanded" that his 14
year old sister join the combat, if as you say his feelings towards
Hikaru were fraternal, and not love. Why didn't he feel the same
towards his real sister, Maria? Maria is his sister after all and is
certainly more worthy of his fraternal feelings than Hikaru.....or
what do you think?
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--Message edité par suzi le 2004-05-24 06:51:53-When there is love, there is 1ife......
joe asakura
a
liil
+s$gsÉ
Posté le 24/05/2004 23:37 i44
ifind it weird that in ep.50 umon doesn't want maria to join the
team and it's daisuke who has to convince him, whereas in the
past it was rather the opposite as daisuke didn't want neither
koji nor hikaru to join the combat in the first place.
all the more strange as maria was his sister that he hadn't seen
for quite a few years and even thought she was dead...
d3
tiil
Poste le 25/05/2004 02:42:34
rB$&ffiF=tú
Force est de constater que tes arguments sont extrémement
convainquants Suzi
Effectivement, je n'ai jamais vu la V.O de Goldorak ; de ce fait,
si tu me dis que cet amour est bien plus flagrant dans la V.O, je
ne peux que te croire. Quant à la question de la fraternite, je
'pense qu'Actarus ne pouvait tout simplement pas refuser que
Maria se joigne à lui car ils sont de la méme planète et ont vécu
les mémes horreurs. Nier la volonté d'implication de Maria dans
le conflit pour Duke reviendrait à nier son propre engagement :
il ne peut pas refuser. Il me semble que c'est quand mème
différent pour Hikaru. Dans la version frangaise, Actarus refuse
catégoriquement au début (au mème titre qu'il refuse pour
Alcor). Cela étant dit, une fois que Vénusia a fait ses preuves,
Actarus I'accepte pleinement au sein des Aigles. Quand je dis
"l'amour d'un grand frère", c'est une simple comparaison en
opposition au sentiment amoureux. Actarus se montre
extrèmement protecteur (idem envers Koji et idem pour Phénicia
d'ailleurs) et c'est en ga que je faisais allusion à un amour
fraternel (plus particulièrement la protection du grand frère).
Koji et Hikaru sont Terriens et pas Maria. Les réactions de Duke
sont donc logiques il me semble.
!
Désolé Suzi, je suis incapable de traduire fidèlement en Anglais
ce que je viens de dire...
--Message edite par gandal le 2O04-05-25 02:43:57--
Mogwail
H,
18:07:15
posté te2s/05/20o4
fR
$
St
$1
kJ
Je me souviens que dans un des épisodes, alors que Actarus
É
r-fit-
ffiS ,"
prépare a partir en moto pour rejoindre le centre,
Vénusia $.il ,"' redemande de pouvoir altez avec lui et il la
repousse fermement en la traitant de petite-fille.
Alors amour fraternel ou Amour.
Gerdha
Messages postés
:
175
Hikaru still rules!l!
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I am sorry for being very quick.
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3110512004
Pagina 7 di 9
The French version is unfortunately totally wrong in the
.dialogues of eps 37-38-39 and many more and in general in
,Venusia character presentation. I posted last September in the
Ancient and Le-Forum old forums (see the links in the very first
post of this present forum) a long analysis about the "real"
Hikaru and her true relationship with Daisuke, if anybody is
interested. I don't think it's fair to repost it again here, though,
as it's still available there for those who would like to read it.
Unless DJinspace thinks otherwise.
@+
Gerdha
Suzi
El
poste te 27/05/2004 03:50:55
ffi'ú
Ér qr
É
Réponse :
adit:
est de constater que tes arguments sont extrémement
uants Suzi !
fFectivement, je n'ai jamais vu la V.O de Goldorak ; de ce fait,
tu me dis que cet amour est bien plus flagrant dans la V.O, je
peux que te croire. Quant à la question de la fraternité, je
qu'Actarus ne pouvait tout simplement pas refuser que
a se joigne à lui car ils sont de la méme planète et ont vécu
mémes horreurs. Nier la volonté d'implication de Maria dans
conflit pour Duke reviendrait à nier son propre engagement :
ne peut pas refuser. Il me semble que c'est quand méme
nt pour Hikaru. Dans la version franEaise, Actarus refuse
uement au début (au méme titre qu'il refuse pour
). Cela étant dit, une fois que Vénusia a fait ses preuves,
rus I'accepte pleinement au sein des Aigles. Quand je dis
'amour d'un grand frère", c'est une simple comparaison en
ion au sentiment amoureux. Actarus se montre
xtrèmement protecteur (idem envers Koji et idem pour
icia d'ailleurs) et c'est en ga que je faisais allusion à un
r fraternel (plus particulièrement la protection du grand
àre). Koji et Hikaru sont Terriens et pas Maria. Les réactions
Duke sont donc logiques il me semble.
lé Suzi, je suis incapable de traduire fidèlement en Anglais
viens de dire
'Don't worry Gandal, I perfectly understand you.
But you see DF's feelings towards Maria are rather complex
,too,..if you note in combat situations her rescue/protection is
always left to Koji to deal with whereas he always
protects/defends Hikaru. It is rather interesting, isn't it? I don't
think it has anything to do with being aliens, but my
understanding is that if he threw his sister into the Dungeon he
should personally take care of her and not leave that to Koji (an
Earthling).
Yes, he well opposed Koji's joining the combat but his opposition
to Hikaru's was 10 times more, and in Koji's case he always
gave in in the end whereas with Hikaru, she had to force her
way into the combat and after a lot of persuasion from the
others. When he finally agreed, he swore to protect her life with
his own....I can't interpret that as "brotherly" feelings, if so
THESE FEELINGS should have also applied to Maria to some
degree. He alawys left the task of saving Maria's life to
Koji.,.,.why? It was always Koji and Maria who did most of the
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Pagina 8 di
surveillence. It always Koji who is ordered to look after Maria
and not after Hikaru, why?
I think it is an interesting argument for which answers are hard
to find, but my interpretation is that he deeply loved Hikaru and
did not have brotherly feelings towards her.
Another big episode that I could bring in support of this is ep 23,
but I will leave that for another time
BTW Gandal, you image is really cool and scary
to the bonet
#
--Message edité par suzi le 2004-05-27 O4:OO:O9-When there is love, there is 1ife......
Gandal
H
Poste le
27
/05/2004 11:48:OB
rS: $*F-rÉ
Suzi, ton analyse est vraiment excellente, d'autant plus qu,elle
est basée sur une version fidele à la V.O. C'est pourquoi je me
range à ton point de vue qui doit étre plus juste que le mien...
La version frangaise est assez floue finalement et comporte
beaucoup d'interprétations libres de I'histoire. you won Suzi
!
ffi
{r-il You (and Gerdha) are really great specialists of Grendizer's
universe (more than me) and that's why I agree with you... It's
true that Duke's opposition to Hikaru is bigger than for the
others... It could be love in fact ! Excuse my poor English Suzi...
A++++
Suzi
^
q
LS --{ 3
pour
Merci
ton compliment, Gandal. Je suis vraiment flatte.
And please do excuse my poor Frenchl EÎ
nî
lÉ1 poste te2l/o5/2004
00:51:32
f-l
ti
É
When there is love, there is |ife......
Gandal
-+ Posté le 2B/O5/2OO4 OI:44:12
iA$S*r"",:É
All right Suzi ! I really think what I said... It's cool to have a
multi-language forum
!
'4+
Hlsl#
\I-é
Grendizer GooOOOOOOooooo !!!!
Gerdha
El
poste
è28/05/2oo4oe:r7:57
lS -E
g * É
Merci, Gandat, tu es trés gentit. É!i r'"ro"re que tu puorrais
avoir bontemp si tu lire mon trés long MM sur Hikaru, LOL!!l
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Pagina
And excuse me for my terrible French......
I
di
I
ffi @
flb ffi,& g br É
lÉl poste rezl/o5/2a04 11:32:00
Il me semble I'avoir 1u... C'était sur I'ancien forum non ?
Remarque je ne suis pas très súr en méme temps. N'hésite pas
à le re-poster à la limite, ga fera des révisions pour ceux qui
l'ont déjà lu
Gandal
I
A++ +++ ++
@ ffi
"rE:!'
Prec.
rndex
n
du
,::"
,16$I
\.y'Goldorak
123
Suiv.
ì.
t9l" baiser
d'Actarus a Vénusia
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Ce forum pour votre site ?
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Sujet: Le baiser d'Actarus a Vénusia
:
Gerdha
Messages postés
tffionlines I Sdnia"
175
|lil
prévenir les modérateurs
Bas
LÉS,tJ{rÉ
Poste le 3O/O5/20O4 16:2O:12
Je ne pense pas que beacoup de gentes seraient interessée à
mon veux post. Mais je donne quand meme I'URL dans I'Ancient
Forum si qualques personnes veulent lui lire (date: 4 September
2OO3; objet: Hikaru Makiba. Il est dans la deuxieme page du
forum)
http : //d isc. se rve
r.
com/I nd ices/ 1 0238
1.
htm
I
--Message edité par gerdha le 2004-05-30 L6:24:Ol--
David
Messages postés : 2BB
t-1
\9
r*rd&#É
Poste le 3O/O5/2O04 16:36:35
Réponse :
haadit:
ne pense pas que beacoup de gentes seraient interessée à
veux post. Mais je donne quand meme I'URL dans I'Ancient
orum si qualques personnes veulent lui lire (date: 4
ber 2003; objet: Hikaru Makiba. Il est dans la deuxieme
du forum)
p://d
isc. server.
-Messaqe edité
com/Ind ices/ 102381. htm
I
r gerdha le 2004-05-30 t6:24:01--
Merci Gerdha pour tes débuts de discussion en frangais, c'est un
ffi
bet effort
Et bonne chance dans ton apprentissage du frangais (car je crois
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Le baiser dActarus a Vénusia - Forums Goldorak
Pagina 2 di 2
ime rappeler que tu nous avais dit apprendre le frangais en ce
Imoment....)
f
:Prec.123
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A'erà. Lesfavoris#Oo
17 niouter une réponse
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Ce
forum pour votre site
?
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Hikaru analisis - comment 5

Transcription

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