THE THOMPSON COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION NEWSLETTER

THOMPSON
COLLECTORS
ASSOCIATION
THE THOMPSON
COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION
THE
#G53970
17th YEAR
Website: THOMPSONCOLLECTORS.com
“On the Side of Law and Order!”
NEWSLETTER
WINTER 2007
VOLUME 5
© copyrighted 2007
INDOOR THOMPSON FULL AUTO TRACER FIRE!
IS THERE SOMETHING BETTER THAN THIS?
Courtesy of the Bill Menosky Collection
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Annual Membership: $30.00
Mail to:
Thompson Collectors Association
P.O. Box 1675
E-mail: [email protected]
Ellicott City, MD 21041-1675
FROM THE PRESIDENT’S DESK
By Carol Troy
As I write this letter, I notice that 2007 is flying by very fast. It seems like just yesterday, that the
holidays were upon us. With the month of February, we approach a very memorable day for the
Thompson Collectors Association, February 14. Now, we all know that it is of course Valentine’s Day.
Yet, the day is also special for the Thompson Collector, as it is the anniversary of the St. Valentine’s Day
Massacre. As far as I am concerned, it is this day which makes the Thompson famous and immediately recognizable.
I hope all of you have a great Valentine’s Day and stop and think for a couple of minutes about our hobby and
passion, our club, and the significance of the day.
In our last newsletter, I told you about the changes to our logo and asked for any ideas and suggestions. I also
wanted to know if anyone had any ideas for a new logo. I only heard from one member about the changes to the logo.
As of 1 February, I have received no new logo submissions. I will be asking the Board of Directors to vote on the
logo that Bill Menosky submitted both as it is, and with the minor change suggested by a club member. With an
approval of the new logo in the near future, the club will be able to have new shirts, pins, and other types of items
available for purchase at the 2007 Show and Shoot.
As you know, my extended term as President ends this summer. As I stated when I asked you to approve a
one year extension to make sure the club was on solid footing, I will be stepping down July. The club is required to
hold an election this summer for a new Board of Directors, who will then select the President, Vice President,
Secretary and Treasurer. If any one is interested in serving as a member of the Board of Directors, please let me
know. If you know of someone who might be interested in serving the club, please feel free to nominate this person,
but please check with them first to make sure they are willing to serve on the Board of Directors. I hope that you will
consider serving our club in this capacity and give serious thought to running for the Board of Directors. If you or
someone you know is interested standing for election to the Board of Directors, I would like to have the nominations
not later than 1 May 2007. Please feel free to contact me at 703--385--1578 or at [email protected]. I look
forward to hearing from you.
Carol
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Ken Snyder’s neighbor, Bruce is selling off Ken’s massive gun collection. At Bruce’s
request, I am selling all his Thompson paraphernalia. I wanted to see that TCA members got the
first chance (before e-bay, etc.). The method for selling the items will be a silent auction with
bids via US mail/E-mail (use our PO Box or [email protected]). Each item has a
minimum bid. Highest bid wins. Bidding will open Mar 15 and will close on Mar 31. See the
ad section in the back for what is available. Postage and insurance will be estimated after the close of the auction.
Write if you need further descriptions, etc. One thing I must mention is Ken’s basement was very damp, as a result
everything has a trace of mold/mildew. It’s gotten better since it’s been in my garage/basement, but everything could
use a vacuum and/or freezer treatment.
There’s an interesting article, with which we can all identify, by a friend of one of our newest members, John
Hartmann. He starts out with the mystique of the TSMG from the media, then hears tales from veterans, and finally is
surprised when he buys and shoots his own TSMG.
Has anyone noticed “The Phantom” in the Sunday papers? The current story line has placed a significant
emphasis on the bad guys using TSMGs.
Pat Wheeler
Comparison of Metric Rear Sight with Standard Lyman Sight
By Gordon Herigstad
Here is a picture of two 1921 Colt sights made by Lyman.
One is the standard sight as we know and love it. The one to the
left is Metric. This is the only one I have ever seen. There was a
reason they put a few of these on a very limited amount of Colt
21's.
This particular one came from Colt 21 AC S/N 9902. I
own this gun and have very little history on it. Hopefully, I’ll
have some more history in the future.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Rita Moreno wielding a TSMG
Here’s a picture I came across on one of the
Usenet News Groups. I believe the movie is El Alaméin.
Based upon the 1953 copyright date at the bottom of the
picture. What was just as interesting was the discussion
that went with the picture:
“The Thompson could be loaded with a 20(or 25) round
clip as shown in the photo, or with a 50 or 100 round
circular drum.
(Name deleted)
Aha! Thanks for the education. Sounds like you might
have used one of them, eh? I know of no 25 round
magazine ever produced for the Thompson SMG. I know
of the type XX (20 cartridges) type L (50 cartridge) drum,
Type C (100 cartridge) drum and the 30 shot military
magazine. I have avoided the use of the term "round" here
to limit confusion between the straight box type
magazines and the circular (round) drum type magazines.
Probably the rarest type magazine would be the type
XVIII (18 cartridge) magazine for the specially produced
.45 caliber shot cartridge. I have never seen one in person
and speculate that the price would be HIGH! All that
aside, can someone forward to me the pic of Ms. Moreno
with the mentioned firearm for my collection. I use such photos to needle a friend of mine who greatly desires to
purchase a Tommygun but can't bring himself to part with the serious dollars for one. I point out to him ‘See even so
and so had a Thompson.’ Yes, I have a Thompson, 1928AC model, so it’s ok. I don't have the pic of Ms. Moreno
with a Thompson.”
Does anyone want to plead guilty to being part of this news article? ☺
My Personal Experiences with the Thompson
By Michael J. Nestler
When I was growing up during the 40's and 50's, I spent a lot of Saturday afternoons at the neighborhood
movie theater. I especially enjoyed war movies with actors Robert Taylor, Lloyd Nolan, and Alan Ladd. There were
many scenes showing them blasting away with their Tommy guns at the menacing and ruthless Japanese, mowing
them down like straws of wheat in a windstorm.
There were also plenty of gangster movies with titles like Al Capone, Machinegun Kelly, and my favorite of
all, because of its super Tommy gun action scenes, Baby Face Nelson starring, of all people, Mickey Rooney.
Because of his small size, the Thompson looked like a "Bazooka" in his hands, which made the gun look even more
devastating than it actually was.
In all of these films, the "Tommy gun", " Typewriter", "Chicago Piano", or simply the "Chopper" was always
shown as an indestructible weapon with unlimited firepower. A ‘foot-long’ flame would spew from its muzzle as it
spit out its deadly barrage of hot lead, while dozens of spent cartridge cases tumbled onto the floor.
The Thompson’s unique and sinister appearance immediately drew your attention to it. The finned barrel with
its, compensator gave it a kind of a futuristic “Flash Gordon” look! The 50 round drum really topped it off, for who
would know at the time, if the mysterious looking drum held 50 or, perhaps, hundreds of bullets?
You could easily imagine yourself holding off a horde of a Japanese or Nazis while blasting away at them
with your Tommy gun and having a pile of extra 50 round drums and dozens of spare 30 round clips to boot. Oh
yeah!
It was many years later that I was fortunate enough to be able to actually purchase this legendary weapon for
$700, including the tax stamp; I had a 1921 Colt Thompson submachine gun.
Wow! I would just sit and stare at it as I held it in my hands, diligently examining every detail as I carefully
field stripped it and put it back together, over and over again, so that I would become familiar with it and it would it
no longer remain a mystery to me as it once had been.
Now nobody dare break into my home; no marauding biker gang better mess with me—or else! One sweep
with my ‘chopper’ would reduce their ‘Harley Hogs’ to flaming wrecks ready for the junkyard, while sending their
riders running for cover, finally end up kneeling in the dirt in front of me, ‘begging for mercy before I turned them
over to law! Ha, ha!
Anyhow, I knew I now had to test fire this weapon. I wanted to feel, firsthand, its awesome power! I only
hoped that I could ‘control’ it and keep it from ‘climbing’ out of my hands while firing it on full auto (this is what I
was told by some ex-GIs who claimed they carried the Thompson in combat—Ha!).
I was standing in an open farm field with a friend standing just a few feet to my right side to observe the event.
I decided to put the selector lever to single shot only. I slowly squeezed the trigger as I held my Thompson up to my
face in rifle aiming fashion. Wait…! What was that? I heard a distinct ‘Pop’ sound not expected ‘Bam!’ or, ‘Ka
Pow!’
I moved the selector lever to full auto and squeezed the trigger again…“Pop. Pop, Pop, Pop, Pop!”
But where was the “sheet of flame shooting of the barrel?”, I saw in many of the Untouchables TV movies?
Hey!...the gun didn't ‘climb up’ pointing to the sky! There is a little recoil but very manageable. “What's
happening?”, I said to myself.
I then realized that I didn't possess the ‘legendary’ weapon of ‘Hollywood’ fame, but instead, a very welldesigned and expertly manufactured machine of sorts that in the hands of a properly trained person, could prove to be
very effective in a defensive or offensive situation.
I later purchased a second Thompson made by Numerich Arms but my favorite was the ‘21 model. I
eventually had to sell both guns because of medical bills and other financial problems.
I deeply regret having to do this, and probably will never have that privilege again.
I still enjoy the memories of owning these guns! I wouldn't trade that for anything less than a million
dollars…then I could buy a half-dozen Thompsons. Ha, Ha!
Editor’s Note: Michael is a retired commercial artist and does birthday cards among other things. I have seen two
examples and they are well done. Mike can be contacted at 262-567-2424.
Al Capone’s Hideaway & Steakhouse
Thanks to John Hartmann for the next two inserts. As you can read from the back of the menu shown below,
this steakhouse/theme restaurant is in the “Chicago area”. As you might expect from a theme restaurant, there is a gift
shop, but a real surprise is a cigar bar. Suggest you don’t take a taxi to there
from downtown. John has assured me the steaks are great.
John is a former TSMG re-enactor, so he thought he’d show up in a dark
suit, black shirt with a white tie, and a fedora. Who would have thought the
waiters would be dressed in the same manner? After being asked for the check,
water, etc., John took off his hat, coat, and tie so he could enjoy his meal.
The picture below, of course, has a special meaning to all of us. I hope
Gen. Thompson won’t turnover in his grave when he reads my caption.
The picture was taken from a booklet of the restaurant called The
Alphonse Capone Enterprises Annual Report 1931. The booklet copies the
format of a typical large company’s annual report and seems to be factual, but
with a subtle humor. The technologies section includes automotive (armorplating), safecracking (being phased out because too many banks are failing),
copperware (stills), Industrial alcohol (redistilling and flavoring to simulate
scotch, bourbon, rye, gin, or brandy), weaponry (multiple items including the
Thompson--“Thoroughly market-tested, St. Valentine’s Day, 1929”), and
printing (“…by the end of 1931, many of the counterfeits were equal in value to
their originals and make just as good wallpaper too.”
After reading the report, all I can say is the report alone is worth the trip.
Thanks, John!
John Thompson is really going to thank me for all the free advertising he’s going to get! ☺
ELIOT NESS' LAST BADGE?
In 1935 with his federal career over as a Treasury agent, the 33 year old Eliot Ness accepted a job
in Cleveland, Ohio, as the Safety Director. According to the historians with the Cleveland Police Historical
Society, Ness ' clea nup of the lawless Cleveland exceeded anything that he had done in Chicago. Ness
served as Safety Director from 1935 until 1942, when he resigned after being involved in a car crash while under the
"influence". In 1957, Ness died of a heart attack at age 55. (For more details on Eliot Ness' career
see: Eliot Ness: The Real Story by Paul W. Heimel.)
Sometimes it is absolutely amazing what you can find at a gun show just by looking carefully at each
table. A few years ago I was lucky enough to stumble into a gentleman selling some Cleveland police badges. In
addition to the usual patrolman, sergeant, and lieutenant badges were two uncommon ones: a departmental
Chaplain's badge and a Safety Director's badge (which I acquired).
Due to the odd circumstances in acquiring the Safety Director's badge (at a gun show without any
documentation), I felt that some research was in order. Contact was made with the Cleveland Police
Historical Society to verify the badge's
authenticity. Unfortunately while the
badge is a real Cleveland Police badge,
it turns out that the Historical Society
did not know what the Safety Director's
badge looked like (they do not have
one in their museum). I knew L.J.
Warren had one also and after talking
with him and looking at his, both
badges are real but I believe his badge
to have been manufactured slightly
earlier than mine (the attachment pin
clasp was of an earlier style than mine,
mid-1940s as opposed to early 1950s).
Warren's badge was photographed in
the catalog from the Thompson display
at the National Firearms Museum in
N.R.A. headquarters. While I cannot tie
my Cleveland Safety Director's badge to
Eliot Ness directly, who knows? Eliot
Ness' original badge went somewhere.
B. Sutton Coffman
Late Breaking News
NRA’s Club Connection (Winter 2006/2007, Vol. 11, No. 3) has an interesting article written by our member
Robin Converse. Okay, I’ll admit it is a slightly modified version of the August issue of our newsletter. Many
months ago, The Club Connection solicited their member clubs for articles. Fortunately for us, Robin’s article was
one of the winners—Congratulations, Robin! I’m trying to get some copies, but I’ll never get enough for the entire
TCA—sorry. The major article was the NRA National Awards that left little room for anything else. Robin’s article
was the next largest and featured a cover picture of two TCA members on the range! A real TCA coup.
About Doug Richardson
Doug Richardson is a design and manufacturing engineer who has specialized in Thompson SMGs for the last
61 years. He has written many books about Thompson guns and manufactures a broad range of Thompson products.
If you wish to have a question answered, submit the question to him by e-mail ([email protected]) or by
regular mail (2100 McReynolds Rd., Malibu CA 90265). Please keep the question short, to the point and address
only one subject at a time. This column is not intended to be a forum. Questions and answers that are deemed to
have general interest will be published.
Doug is also posting Q&As on his website (ThompsonSMG.com). If there is anything on his website that you
would like to put into the news, go ahead but please give Doug credit for the item.
Questions & Answers
Dear Doug,
Are the barrel threads on an A5 gun the same as a TSMG?
Roge
Theoretically they are. But the A5 is not a Thompson and so the quality of the threading leaves something to
be desired. You did not say what you were intending to do. If your intention is to install a TSMG barrel on an A5,
you must also fit a buttstock and register it as a short barrel rifle. Mere possession of both the TSMG and an A5 gun
is otherwise a violation. The best thing to do with an A5 is to leave it alone and not have any parts around that could
be used to reconfigure it into an NFA weapon.
Dear Doug,
Can a standard ring style front sight be installed on a barrel that was threaded for a compensator?
Unknown
No. The muzzle of a barrel made to accept a ring style front sight is larger, smooth and tapered compared to
the straight threads on the muzzle of a barrel made to accept a compensator. It is possible to thread the end of a ring
sight barrel to accept a compensator. If a ring sight is put on a threaded barrel, it will not be a tight fit. Of course, it
could be welded or epoxied to hold it in place, but that is redesigning the gun. I have had several inquiries about the
possibility of making some ring sights threaded like a compensator so there would be interchangeability, and that
could be done. The problem is that there is just not enough demand to make such a product viable.
Dear Doug,
What is the purpose of the hole in the blade handle on safety levers fitted to 1921, 1928, and early 1928A1
Thompsons?
Unknown
The only purpose of the hole is to provide an axis for the knurling tool as it traveled around the circumference
of the radius at the end of the safety lever. When the knurling was eliminated on late 1928A1 gun production there
was no longer a need for the hole. Although the rocker pivot (selector) was also knurled, the knurling did not wrap
around the lever to the extent that it did on the safety. Therefore, a different setup was possible for the knurling tool
that did not require an axis hole in the lever.
Dear Doug,
How many styles of gripmounts were made and how do they differ?
Unknown
There are three different styles of gripmounts that were fitted to Thompson guns. The first style was fitted to
Models 1919, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1927, 1928 and Colt 1928A1 guns. It is a 1-piece gripmount in that it was machined
entirely out of one piece of steel. This gripmount is bent up slightly such that the barrel pushes it downward with
considerable force. The reason for stressing it was to create a very rigid mount for the vertical front grip that was
originally fitted to all 1919 and Colt guns. When the WW2 production switched from the Savage 1928s made for
Great Britain, which had vertical front grips, to the U.S. 1928A1s which were fitted with horizontal forearms, there
was no longer a need for the rigidity. That lead to the elimination of the bend and the introduction of the second style
of gripmont. In my opinion, the projection at the front end of the gripmount which bears against the barrel should
have been eliminated completely. This is because it is the forearm which bears against the barrel as the forearm screw
is tightened. As the screw is tightened, it is actually pulling the gripmount away from the barrel such that, in most
cases, the gripmount no longer contacts the barrel at all. The third style is referred to as the 3-piece gripmount and
fitted to M1A1 guns. This gripmount consists of a flat bar fitted with a front barrel stud and a rear securing stud.
Both studs are actually rivets so the 3-piece gripmount cannot be disassembled. This gripmount was a complete
disaster. It was supposed to save money but, in fact, it is so weak because of the rear stud hole reducing its strength
that it failed in service. By pulling downward on the sling, it is possible to bend the gripmount. To solve this
problem, a strap was designed to go around the barrel and forearm and retro-fitted to many of the guns. Later Army
drawings show a fourth style that is similar to the U.S.1928A1 style in that it is a 1-piece design but differs in that the
front projection is replaced by simply bending the front end upward. There is no evidence that any of the fourth style
were made.
Dear Doug,
The M1 Thompson was cheaper and simpler compared to previous models, but was there anything about the
gun that was an improvement?
Unknown
Cheaper and simpler pretty much sums it up. But, yes. There is one improvement that was incorporated in the
M1 gun. It is an additional sear slot near the back of the bolt that enables the safety to work when the bolt is closed.
On previous models, the safety will only work if the bolt is cocked open. Soldiers during WW2 tended to keep the
bolt closed to prevent dirt from entering the breech. If the bolt were closed and the gun were dropped on its butt, it
would be possible for the bolt to cycle and fire a cartridge. So, the addition of the closed-bolt-safety-slot was
definitely an improvement. Earlier bolts can be modified to incorporate this safety feature. If the guns had been
made today, they would probably all be recalled to add it.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
For those of you considering attending the 2007 Summer Show and Shoot near Bloomington,
IN, here is the information for your Form “20”.
RR # 1 Box 279
Solsberry, In 47459
Greene County
ANNOUNCING
The 12th Annual
WESTERN SHOW & SHOOT
Kingman, Arizona
April 21st & 22nd,
2007
PLANS INCLUDE:
• Saturday, April 21st - 9:00 am-The Thompson Show. Also,
visiting guest speakers from the TCA Board will discuss our future
and will answer your questions.
• At 11:00 am the MANDATORY safety briefing and registration
of shooters will take place. Souvenir coffee mugs will be given out
to all those registered.
• Historic T-shirts of the event are to be ordered in advance and will
be available. See form below to order.
• Sunday, April 22nd - 8:00 am - The Thompson Competition. Open
shooting will commence after the competition.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Please detach this portion and return it with payment of $27.00 no later than February 28, 2007.
Please mail to:
DON HALL
3584 N. BIBO ROAD
GOLDEN VALLEY, AZ 86413
If you have any questions or comments, please call Don at (928) 565-4575
Name _____________________________
Phone No. (_____) ____________
Address____________________________ City__________________ State_________ Zip_____ - _______
YES, I plan to attend the 12th Western Thompson Shoot. I will bring ____ (how many)
_______ YES, I will require _______(How many) eight-foot tables.
(Thompson’s)
_____ YES, I wish to order historic Thompson T-shirts, @ $10.00 ea. Please indicate how many.
Med. _____ Lg. _____ Ex. Lg. _____ XX Lg. (add $ 2.00) _____ XXX Lg. (add $3.00) _____
Note: Nearest Airport is Las Vegas
CLASSIFIED ADS
THOMPSON COLLECTORS
ASSOCIATION
P. O. BOX 1675
ELLICOTT CITY, MD 21041-1675
e-mail us at [email protected]
ANY AD $6.00 PER ISSUE
MISMATCHED DRUMS – Do you own a Colt “C” or “L” drum with mismatched covers? I am providing a service
to TCA members. The “Drum Registry” has dozens of Colt mismatches listed with their last known address. I can
help you locate the matching lid or base for your Colt drum. The cost is two (2) 1ST class postage stamps per drum.
Don Hall, 3584 Bibo Rd., Golden Valley, AZ 86413.
FOR SALE: The book Colt Thompson Serial Numbers. The book includes sections on the listing of all 15000
serial numbers of the Colt TSMG, an index/history section, Marine Corps and Navy section and a drum section. A
must for all Thompson Collectors. THOMPSONACCESSORIES.COM. Gordon Herigstad. 1632 West 10th St., San
Pedro, CA 90732. (310) 831-9339. [email protected].
DRUM REPAIR TSMG DRUM DR. CALL Merle F. Bitikofer. 224 N. W. Woods Ln., Dallas, OR 97338. (503)
623-8294. e-mail [email protected].
54 PAGE THOMPSON CATALOG $5. Display guns, semi-finished receivers, parts, tools, books, drawings,
accessories. ThompsonSMG.com. Doug Richardson, 2100 McReynolds, Malibu, CA 90265. 310-457-6400.
[email protected].
COMING SOON (Really): DVDs of the TCA 2006 Show & Shoot. Write to TCA, PO Box 1675, Ellicott City, MD
21041-1675 or E-mail [email protected] to reserve your copy.
LOTTERY ON TSMG ARTICLES FROM KEN SNYDER’S ESTATE: Cox book w/o supplement—includes
1991 one page Thompson Collectors News and a Tracie Hill signed thank you letter for buying the Cox book. Cover
generally in good condition, but tattered around the edges. $450 OBO*. Helmer book (late addition) $25 OBO.
Original four volumes (to be sold only as a set) of Lt. Col. George Chinn’s The Machine Gun, published by US
Navy, Bureau of Ordnance including declassification markings. $400 OBO. British firing pin gauge. $25 OBO. .
Four 30 round magazines wrapped in original green oilcloth. $35 OBO. Three 30 round magazines wrapped in wax
paper with cardboard sleeve. $35 OBO. Nine 30 round magazines wrapped in orange or brown Kraft paper. $30
OBO. One sealed oilcloth package (foil lined) with 6 (estimated) Blish locks. $250 OBO. One open oilcloth
package of 8 (counted) Blish locks (Savage and A.O.C.). $280 OBO (with package) or $35 each OBO (if sold
individually packaging goes to sealed package winner). One unused 1928 bolt assembly in black (Savage) with Blish
and actuator (no knurling). $200 OBO. Six 1928 bolts wrapped in green oilcloth. $75 OBO. One unused 1928 bolt
in black (still has oilcloth sticking to it). $55 OBO.
*OBO = Or Best Offer.