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06-19-2012, 04:50 PM
VenturaVega
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#1
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Hamilton Sues Stuhrling
No surprise to us Hamilton fans, I guess. Seems to be making national news due to the connection with Men in
Black III.
By Michelle Graff Jun 19, 2012
http://www.nationaljeweler.com/nj/majors/a/~28974-Swatch-files-lawsuit-over-Men
Brooklyn, N.Y.--The Swatch Group (U.S.) Inc. has filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against a watch
manufacturer and ShopNBC, claiming that they are selling a watch that is a knockoff of the Hamilton “Ventura,”
a timepiece that has a long history of Hollywood appearances.
According to the lawsuit, filed June 11 in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, Stührling
Original LLC created a watch called the “Stührling Ricochet,” that is allegedly an intentional copy of the Ventura
trade dress.
The company, a Brooklyn-based watch manufacturer, has marketed, promoted, advertised and sold these
“unlawful and unauthorized reproductions” through online retailers such as Amazon.com and ShopNBC.com and
on the ShopNBC television network, court papers state. The Stührling Ricochet appeared to have been removed
from ShopNBC.com as of Monday, as search for the term did not yield any results.
Swatch Group filed suit against Stührling, ShopNBC and its parent company ValueVision Media Inc. for trademark
infringement, unfair competition and false advertising under the federal Lanham Act and under the laws of New
York state.
It was not immediately clear why Amazon.com was not included in the suit.
Stührling said the lawsuit has no basis and it intends to defend itself vigorously. “There are a lot of triangular
watches out in the marketplace,” said Stührling Chief Operating Officer Barry Kaplan, noting that there are
several brands that have made triangular watches “without any legal action from the Swatch Group.”
“We really don’t feel that the lawsuit has any validity,” he said.
ShopNBC did not respond to request for comment on Monday.
Hamilton, an American watch brand that dates back to 1892, introduced the Ventura in 1957 as the world’s first
electric, battery-powered watch. The watch has a “distinctive shape and design elements,” including a shieldshaped case and bezel with points at 1 o’clock, 5 o’clock and 9 o’clock, scalloping along two edges of the case and
a crown at 3 o’clock, court papers state.
Since its introduction in the late 1950s, the Ventura has found its way onto the wrists of various celebrities,
including The Twilight Zone host Rod Serling, Elvis Presley in the 1961 movie Blue Hawaii and, more recently, on
an episode of the AMC television series Mad Men.
Actor Will Smith donned a Hamilton Ventura reissue in all three Men in Black movies, the last of which came out
this year and “broke box office records,” grossing more than $135 million in the United States, according to court
papers.
This most recent release, Men in Black III, is what spurred the lawsuit, with Swatch Group claiming in court
papers that Lawrence Magen, president of Stührling’s North American operations, appeared on ShopNBC during a
segment on the Stührling Ricochet and the segment’s host said, “If memory serves, there is another motion
picture release now where this is once again being touted.”
Swatch Group is asking the court for a permanent injunction banning the creation and sale of these watches and
monetary damages in the case.
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06-19-2012
04:50 PM
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05-12-2012
05:29 PM
#2
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BIGNOIZE
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Deep stuff
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06-19-2012, 05:01 PM
#3
hokk54
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HAMMY VENTURA cage match
06-19-2012, 05:30 PM
#4
WatchYaThink
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This looks familiar:
http://www.risun-watch.com/product_d...?productid=896
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06-19-2012, 05:32 PM
#5
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boscob
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The irony Swatch is suing a company for copyright infringement named Stührling Original.
06-19-2012, 05:47 PM
#6
The Voice
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Which Stuhrling watch is this?
06-19-2012, 05:49 PM
#7
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watchman74
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Glad I got mine, and the Swatchers can KMA...................
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06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
#8
tinknocker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice
Which Stuhrling watch is this?
Stührling Ricochet
06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
#9
icewolf64
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I kind of like the Techno marine triangle watch the best
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06-19-2012, 06:01 PM
#10
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toecutter
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Swatch 2011 figure.
• Gross sales exceed CHF 7 billion for the first time to CHF 7'143 million, an increase of +21.7% over 2010 at
constant exchange rates.
That's over 7.5 billion USD.
F you Nick Hayek!
And I like Hamiltons, too.
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06-19-2012, 06:15 PM
curiousgeorge
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#11
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The only basis for the suit will be the sales pitch and can they prove that referencing an upcoming movie that
features the real Hamilton Ventura helped sales or hurt Hamilton Venturas sales or hurt their sales . I missed
that show so if the Host referenced MIBIII and since Hamilton is a paid sponsor to the movie there could be real
trouble. If the host only referenced an upcoming movie it's not a slam dunk case. Since amazon isn't being sued
the sales pitch which I missed is the only real basis for a suit or a case.
06-19-2012, 06:19 PM
stevemayer
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Pretty blatant in my opinion:
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06-19-2012, 06:23 PM
#13
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Notdmeca
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I like Larry, but SO has been pushing the limits of what an 'homage' is for quite a while, so this was not
surprising.
Kudos to Swatch for protecting their designs.
06-19-2012, 06:26 PM
mrmike29
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Loud discussions with top men to follow!
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06-19-2012, 06:28 PM
rickm
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I wonder where the the two watches look alike?
Hamilton Classic Ventura H24615331
#15
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Stuhrling Original Ricochet
I thought they would have to have to look alike in many ways. The overall case design is maybe the only part
that looks alike but even that is different as you can see. There is no similarity in the rest of the watches.
06-19-2012, 06:39 PM
#16
mba1996
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The black IP models are close, but definitely "different", IMHO. I wouldn't buy the Hamilton at over $700, but the
Sturling on Overstock for $189 ain't too shabby.
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06-19-2012, 06:55 PM
#17
socrates
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A doctor that treated me in the emergency room lately told me he was a watch collector and we
talked for a while. Told me he was given the Hammy Ventura by his wife. He worn it in while doing
rounds to show me. Loved it and thought someday I would like to own it. When I saw the SO Ricochet
thought close enough for now. Problem is I never got around to pulling the trigger. Sad for me! Hope
SO comes out of this without to much damage.
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06-19-2012, 07:00 PM
Boboy
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I wonder if the reason Amazon is not named is because they might not be an "authorized" vendor. There are a
lot of brands they sell that don't have manufacturers warranties for that reason. They have their own warranty.
06-19-2012, 07:06 PM
Boboy
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#19
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Posts: 713
Is the Shop video for when these were presented still available? I watched the presentation and remember Larry
making references to the Hamilton while not actually naming the brand and that may be the problem and why
the suit is directed to Stuhrling and Shop and not Amazon. Even though other brands make triangle watches
there is probably no video evidence of them comparing the watch to the Ventura.
06-19-2012, 07:10 PM
curiousgeorge
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boboy
Is the Shop video for when these were presented still available? I watched the presentation and
remember Larry making references to the Hamilton while not actually naming the brand and that may be
the problem and why the suit is directed to Stuhrling and Shop and not Amazon. Even though other
brands make triangle watches there is probably no video evidence of them comparing the watch to the
Ventura.
The problem is the sales pitch referenced the upcoming MIB111 movie which the main characters wear Hamilton
venturas and Hamilton is using the movie to promote their watches and paid to be featured in the movie. The
thing is did the host actually reference the movie by name or just state an upcoming summer movie which would
leave some gray area. This is why Shop is being sued and not Amazon which never made that reference in their
sales.
06-19-2012, 07:19 PM
Boboy
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#21
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Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
The problem is the sales pitch referenced the upcoming MIB111 movie which the main characters wear
Hamilton venturas and Hamilton is using the movie to promote their watches and paid to be featured in
the movie. The thing is did the host actually reference the movie by name or just state an upcoming
summer movie which would leave some gray area. This is why Shop is being sued and not Amazon which
never made that reference in their sales.
Yeh, it is starting to look like the presentation and the references that Larry made is the problem.
06-19-2012, 07:24 PM
Boboy
Veteran Geek
#22
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notdmeca
I like Larry, but SO has been pushing the limits of what an 'homage' is for quite a while, so this was not
surprising.
Kudos to Swatch for protecting their designs.
Yeh, I agree. Have noticed that for awhile also.
06-19-2012, 07:27 PM
#23
Boboy
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Regardless of the outcome you have to wonder if Stuhrling will survive this.
06-19-2012, 07:29 PM
#24
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06-19-2012, 07:56 PM
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Sir watch
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Given all the Oyster Date and Submariner look‐alikes in the market. I think the Swatch legal team is more aggressive
than Rolex.
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06-19-2012, 08:01 PM
#26
DrinkMeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchYaThink
This looks familiar:
http://www.risun-watch.com/product_d...?productid=896
06-19-2012, 08:43 PM
#27
proudmanx1
Join Date: Jun 2008
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American Brand?
It really makes me made that they call the hamilton an American brand it hasn't been an American brand in
years.
06-19-2012, 09:04 PM
#28
socrates
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When I first read this thread today I went to the shop to see if the Ricochet was available. Either it
was sold out or fulled from the shelf as it was no where to be found. I guess I missed my chance.
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06-19-2012, 09:38 PM
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David3443
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Well if you ask me this whole suit is kind of stupid and it just shows what kind of "Oh yeah I'll Sue You" society
we live in these days. I mean let's get down brass tacks here this is coming from someone that has a degree in
fashion EVERYBODY and I mean EVERYBODY both high end low end manufactures copy popular designs and looks
to make sales. Look in GQ magazine check out an Armani Suit and then walk in Macy's and you'll find what looks
to be an exact carbon copy for a fraction of the price. The problem is that Larry made a thinly veiled reference to
a watch and a movie and now the Swatch group wants to sue....Unbelievable!
06-19-2012, 11:02 PM
#30
WATCHJAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notdmeca
I like Larry, but SO has been pushing the limits of what an 'homage' is for quite a while, so this was not
surprising.
Kudos to Swatch for protecting their designs.
I agree and I too am a big fan of Larry's they don't come any better than him, but don't understand why
Swatch should sit back and take it. This case design has been an Iconic Hamilton design since the 1950's.
I read these threads and just sit back and laugh just because Swatch is the big boy on the block. First their
expected to continue to supply the rest of the watch making world with their movements. Now they're
protecting an Iconic design of over 50+ years.
And they're the bad guys!! REALLY?????
Elvis, backstage on the set of Blue Hawaii, with his Hamilton Ventura
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06-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Knifemaker
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Shawn W gone and Larry has not done his Prestige line tonight.
Maybe they got the ax to save Top Men IMO
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06-19-2012, 11:48 PM
Boboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker
Shawn W gone and Larry has not done his Prestige line tonight.
Maybe they got the ax to save Top Men IMO
Things that make you go hmmm...
Yesterday, 12:00 AM
#33
russiandivemaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir watch
Given all the Oyster Date and Submariner look‐alikes in the market. I think the Swatch legal team is more
aggressive than Rolex.
my thoughts are roughly in the same place. I saw a Daytona once and thought it was a speedway at glance. Most
look-a-likes of Rolexes look way more like a Rolex than these two.
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Yesterday, 12:05 AM
#34
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vbobdriveguy
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Oh my god!!!!
A watch company made a watch that looks like a watch that another watch company makes?!?!?!
What's this world coming to?
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Yesterday, 12:18 AM
#35
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Rodeoboy
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SO may have been OK, but then they made a booboo.
They tried to piggy back off all the history and marketing the watch has under Hamilton when they referred to
MIB and some other little reminders.
I don't know much about the law concerning the similarity of the watches.
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Yesterday, 02:50 AM
#36
Panda03Bear
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ok, its no secret i am proponent of stuhrling and Larry, and seriously, really, come on swatch?! there are rarely
any new designs these days, and you could toss a rock and hit a replica/homage of some major brand. the only
thing is what larry "inferred" vice said? so if i say yeah, my watch a looks like or is similar to watch b in a movie i
saw, does that mean i shouyld be sued? i dont know, it would have been different if the ricochet was attempted
to be passed off as the watch in MIBIII, but simply saying it is similar to a watch coming out in a big movie this
summer really doesnt mean ish. i think that SO will have nothing to worry about, and this wont affect a thing. i
find the suit ridiculous. just my two pennies. wont change my collecting habits either way, never liked the
ventura (felt cheap to me on the wrist), dont care for the ricochet either.
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Yesterday, 03:16 AM
#37
Boboy
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You have to wonder if the suit would have been filed if Stuhrling had been a customer of ETA. I don't believe
they use any ETA movements but I'm not sure.
Yesterday, 06:45 AM
#38
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curiousgeorge
Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbobdriveguy
Oh my god!!!!
A watch company made a watch that looks like a watch that another watch company makes?!?!?!
What's this world coming to?
The crux of the case hinges not just on the homage, it was how it was sold. That is why ShopNbc is being sued
not amazon. Read the suit, unfair competition, false advertising. Hamilton has paid to use The Movie MIBIII to
advertise the Hamilton Ventura. They have a whole marketing campaign built around it. When whatever host
referenced the movie they are using someone else's licensed and paid for advertisement to sell their look alike
product. Without this the suit would be pretty much useless. Some other watch sites(we all know who) are
claiming they tipped off Swatch and hamilton to the reference. Basically though you cant use someone else's paid
for marketing tool to sell your product. Pretty simple. Even worse when it's a look alike. That is why usually the
hosts and guests are very careful in how they say a watch has a certain look. The suit hinges on did Stuhrling or
ShopNBC profit from using someone else's paid advertising to sell a similar looking product. I didn't see the show
so I don't know what was said but that is the whole case not just the similarity of the watches. A waffle company
couldn't sell their product by saying you know that waffle people can't leggo of, this is just about the same,
except it's cheaper to not leggo of. Or a cereal company selling frosted flakes saying you know that commercial
with the tiger thats says their cereal is GRRREAT. Well ours is GRRREAT too only cheaper. Does it make sense
now because that will be the winner or loser in the suit.
Yesterday, 07:10 AM
#39
DrinkMeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WATCHJAC
[SIZE="4"][FONT="Book Antiqua"][I]
I agree and I too am a big fan of Larry's they don't come any better than him, but don't understand why
Swatch should sit back and take it. This case design has been an Iconic Hamilton design since the 1950's.
I read these threads and just sit back and laugh just because Swatch is the big boy on the block. First
their expected to continue to supply the rest of the watch making world with their movements. Now
they're protecting an Iconic design of over 50+ years.
And they're the bad guys!! REALLY?????
Thank you.
Yesterday, 07:38 AM
#40
Rog1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker
Shawn W gone and Larry has not done his Prestige line tonight.
Maybe they got the ax to save Top Men IMO
It was posted that Justin Zimmer would be the brand rep for Prestige.
As for Shawn , that's just business.
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#41
MikeAB
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Took the words out of my mouth!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
The crux of the case hinges not just on the homage, it was how it was sold. That is why ShopNbc is
being sued not amazon. Read the suit, unfair competition, false advertising. Hamilton has paid to use
The Movie MIBIII to advertise the Hamilton Ventura. They have a whole marketing campaign built
around it. When whatever host referenced the movie they are using someone else's licensed and paid
for advertisement to sell their look alike product. Without this the suit would be pretty much useless.
Some other watch sites(we all know who) are claiming they tipped off Swatch and hamilton to the
reference. Basically though you cant use someone else's paid for marketing tool to sell your product.
Pretty simple. Even worse when it's a look alike. That is why usually the hosts and guests are very
careful in how they say a watch has a certain look. The suit hinges on did Stuhrling or ShopNBC profit
from using someone else's paid advertising to sell a similar looking product. I didn't see the show so I
don't know what was said but that is the whole case not just the similarity of the watches. A waffle
company couldn't sell their product by saying you know that waffle people can't leggo of, this is just
about the same, except it's cheaper to not leggo of. Or a cereal company selling frosted flakes saying
you know that commercial with the tiger thats says their cereal is GRRREAT. Well ours is GRRREAT
too only cheaper. Does it make sense now because that will be the winner or loser in the suit.
Yesterday, 07:41 AM
#42
hokk54
True WatchGeek
just highlights
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bedford
Posts: 8,511
Real Name: ScottyB
a fine line between HOMAGE and TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT
know the linetread carefully-as for me-- homages are my friendsluck to DAVEY (LM) against GOLIATH ( SWATCH)
may your homages keep marching on-
Yesterday, 08:24 AM
#43
DrinkMeister
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 128
Senior Member
Senior Geek
I don't believe making a look-a-like watch is really paying homage to an original design. Taking a design
element and putting your own twist on it, yeah. But this would be like hyundai making a car that could be
aesthetically mistaken at a distance for a corvette and then trying to slyly make reference to the history of
the corvette in their marketing.
Yesterday, 08:43 AM
VenturaVega
Junior Member
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#44
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 20
Yeah...there are absolutely no similarities between the two watches. The black IP theme, triangular case,
ribbed upper and lower case/lug areas, skeletonized dial with contoured outside perimeter, same styled
hands and a crown that apes the standard Ventura. Other than that, there is no relationship.
Tell you what: Take the SO Ricochet and place it next to a Hamilton Ventura XL and an Invicta Pro Diver an
ask complete strangers which two look the same. I'll give you my watch collection if just one pairs the SO
with the Invicta.
Combine looks with a Larry's comments about his watch looking similar to that of one featured in a "newly
released movie" and you have intent.
ShopNBC is so chock full of watches that are "homages" that a high percentage of followers become
desensitized to companies' intellectual property, and creative rights and efforts over snagging a "good deal".
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm
I wonder where the the two watches look alike?
Hamilton Classic Ventura H24615331
Stuhrling Original Ricochet
I thought they would have to have to look alike in many ways. The overall case design is maybe the
only part that looks alike but even that is different as you can see. There is no similarity in the rest of
the watches.
Yesterday, 08:56 AM
VenturaVega
Junior Member
New Geek
#45
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 20
It's amazing this attitude has come from a creative person...someone within the design industry who should
be extra sensitive to the stealing of intellectual property by others for gain. You must know that you can't
copyright the cut of a suit, dress strap design or design trends, but a designer can copyright the shape, color
and construction of cologne and perfume bottles or the design of a pattern printed on fabric. Copy those and
you will find yourself in court pronto. Coach, Louis Vuitton, et al. spend millions a year policing and suing
fake bag manufacturers to protect their logos and bag designs. I am in the design industry as well, and with
all due respect, you should be ashamed...Unbelievable!
Quote:
Originally Posted by David3443
Well if you ask me this whole suit is kind of stupid and it just shows what kind of "Oh yeah I'll Sue
You" society we live in these days. I mean let's get down brass tacks here this is coming from
someone that has a degree in fashion EVERYBODY and I mean EVERYBODY both high end low end
manufactures copy popular designs and looks to make sales. Look in GQ magazine check out an
Armani Suit and then walk in Macy's and you'll find what looks to be an exact carbon copy for a
fraction of the price. The problem is that Larry made a thinly veiled reference to a watch and a movie
and now the Swatch group wants to sue....Unbelievable!
Yesterday, 09:05 AM
#46
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 516
DavidHRC
Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boboy
Regardless of the outcome you have to wonder if Stuhrling will survive this.
This won't impact Stuhrling in any meaningful way. They may pull the watch to avoid the cost of the fight,
but "survival" won't be at stake. George J. von Burg is an icon in the business.
Yesterday, 09:09 AM
#47
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,327
Real Name: Kevin B
bayside1
Super Geek
It's hard to speak about your own watches day in and day out without slipping every now and then. In the
past, I've noticed that the hosts and guests on the shop's watch shows have been very careful to cover their
collective butts and not mention other brands by name.
You can still push the envelope without going over the edge. In this case the lager company (Swatch Group)
has money to burn and a video tape as evidence.
Even if the case is thrown out it is still going to cost Sturling a lot of man hours and money to defend.
Cases like this are used all the time to test how deep smaller companies pockets are while also causing a
major distraction to their everyday operations.
New York anti trust law is a bit tricky and differs from some other states. Yet, the trademark infringement is
probably key to this. As there are many ways to make a triangle watch. What exactly does Swatches TM
protect. Certainly not the watches
lug configuration as seen in this case. The Sturling uses a Common lug assy. and strap whereas the
Hamilton is more complicated. A simple triangle design in itself should not be enough to trademark.
Maybe we will see the shop's programming on an 8 second delay in the future so any mis steps can be cut by
the producers.
Yesterday, 09:24 AM
#48
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,124
TheJayBird
Super Geek
For those that say there are no similarities, the wrong Ventura model has been shown so far. The Ventura
shown so far is the Ventura XXL Elvis Aniversary model (which is the one that I own). The one actually in
question is smaller version. Judge for yourself.
I think the one mistake made was to actually mention anything about the original version. Well, it's for the
courts to decide. Good luck Larry.
And I'm sure we won't hear anything from Larry here since I'm sure that some else is watching these posts.
__________________
"Time wounds all heels" (Groucho Marx)
Yesterday, 09:57 AM
#49
HondaLover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 3,078
Real Name: John
Master WatchGeek
They are definitely different. The width of the dial is greater, the bezel is more convex, the left side is not as
pointed. Most likely it will be settled out of court.
__________________
John
Yesterday, 10:27 AM
#50
LA Stang
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 505
Real Name: Brent P
Veteran Geek
WOW,
It seem to me that because the Stuhrling has a large TV viewer-ship and could reach millions and Hamilton
marketing is mostly through watch stores and magazines, Hamilton feels that the Stuhrling looks to close
and may take some of their market share.
What Hamilton does not understand is that their timepiece has a history that Stuhrling can not ever match.
That true watch fans will most of the times want the original, and that it is the greatest complement to have
your product duplicated.
Remember what Carol Shelby did. He did not sue anyone for making copies of his cars, this practice actually
helped his originals rise in value. What Mr. Shelby did protect was his name. And you noticed that FORD
never began marketing the copies at FORD dealerships. Why, because they would never market a copy. And
when Mr. Shelby began to make continuation models, did FORD jump back in . . . . . . . . with both feet,
providing new mustangs and FORD engineering to make sure it hit the market place correct. Result . . . . . . .
the next pony hoursepower race.
I have the Hamilton in BLACK and I love the timepiece.
To me, I think that The Swatch Group (U.S.) Inc. Hamilton is acting a little scary. They should just relax,
protect their name.
Just my two (2) maybe three (3) cents.
LA Stang
Yesterday, 10:29 AM
#51
hokk54
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bedford
Posts: 8,511
Real Name: ScottyB
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayside1
It's hard to speak about your own watches day in and day out without slipping every now and then.
In the past, I've noticed that the hosts and guests on the shop's watch shows have been very careful
to cover their collective butts and not mention other brands by name.
You can still push the envelope without going over the edge. In this case the lager company (Swatch
Group) has money to burn and a video tape as evidence.
Even if the case is thrown out it is still going to cost Sturling a lot of man hours and money to defend.
Cases like this are used all the time to test how deep smaller companies pockets are while also
causing a major distraction to their everyday operations.
New York anti trust law is a bit tricky and differs from some other states. Yet, the trademark
infringement is probably key to this. As there are many ways to make a triangle watch. What exactly
does Swatches TM protect. Certainly not the watches
lug configuration as seen in this case. The Sturling uses a Common lug assy. and strap whereas the
Hamilton is more complicated. A simple triangle design in itself should not be enough to trademark.
Maybe we will see the shop's programming on an 8 second delay in the future so any mis steps can
be cut by the producers.
a testSWATCH VAULTS OF GOLD
against
SO bottom line- LAWYER UP
Yesterday, 10:35 AM
jnc
Master WatchGeek
#52
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posts: 3,871
Real Name: John
Yeh, it is starting to look like the presentation and the references that Larry made is the problem.
jnc
Yesterday, 11:25 AM
#53
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
Posts: 287
Real Name: Bob
shazam
Senior Geek
This is NUTS, what about all those round watches with winding stems on the right side and with three hands
and numbers that go from one to twelve on the dial.
Yesterday, 11:59 AM
#54
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 1,325
Real Name: David E Horsfield
dhorsfield
Super Geek
More money to be wasted?
Great, another lawsuit? Hamilton (Swatch Group) versus Sturhling - it's like David versus Goliath. In the
end they'll probably get a cease and desist order against Sturhling. Quite frankly for the money, I'll take the
Sturhling. It's not a Hamilton but it's looks pretty darn good.
Yesterday, 12:13 PM
#55
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Currently, North Carolina. But, I travel worldwide as part of my job.
Posts: 978
Real Name: Jason
NCEngineer
Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
The crux of the case hinges not just on the homage, it was how it was sold. That is why ShopNbc is
being sued not amazon. Read the suit, unfair competition, false advertising. Hamilton has paid to use
The Movie MIBIII to advertise the Hamilton Ventura. They have a whole marketing campaign built
around it. When whatever host referenced the movie they are using someone else's licensed and paid
for advertisement to sell their look alike product.
Well stated, and to this point, the most poignant analysis of the law suit. Everyone else is looking
at just the fact that a "homage" was done. Of course, Swatch is the evil watch company (that
everyone seems to want to continue to supply the world with its "evil" movements; ironic), but
they are protecting an investment they made as of late with regards to the movie and the
reference that Larry made to it when selling SO's version of that watch is what is at issue here.
Yesterday, 12:16 PM
#56
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,591
Owlwatch
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnc
Yeh, it is starting to look like the presentation and the references that Larry made is the problem.
jnc
Mr. Magen was not the only one making verbal movie reference during SO presentations...so has at least
one SNBC host. May SO and SNBC weather this storm!
Yesterday, 02:23 PM
Boboy
Veteran Geek
#57
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by hokk54
a testSWATCH VAULTS OF GOLD
against
SO bottom line- LAWYER UP
That is my point when I said I wonder if Stuhrling can survive this regardless of the outcome. Stuhrling's
profit margin has to be very thin, they are not the kind of company that can afford to spend money
defending a lawsuit. Lets hope Swatch is willing to settle out of court, the expenses alone of defending a
lawsuit could be very damaging to Stuhrling even if they win.
That is why a lot of big companies do this because they know the smaller companies cannot afford the fight.
Yesterday, 02:26 PM
#58
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bedford
Posts: 8,511
Real Name: ScottyB
hokk54
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boboy
That is my point when I said I wonder if Stuhrling can survive this regardless of the outcome.
Stuhrling's profit margin has to be very thin, they are not the kind of company that can afford to
spend money defending a lawsuit. Lets hope Swatch is willing to settle out of court, the expenses
alone of defending a lawsuit could be very damaging to Stuhrling even if they win.
That is why a lot of big companies do this because they no the smaller companies cannot afford the
fight.
UNDERSTAND- WIN-WIN for big bully SWATCH
-
no conceivable scenario can be a LOSS FOR SWATCH-a pimple on SWATCH'S BACKSIDEMAJOR HEAD ACHE FOR SO
Yesterday, 02:29 PM
#59
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manhattan,new york
Posts: 338
Real Name: michael
mdo227
Senior Geek
As soon as i saw this stuhhrling watch on the shop i thought hamilton. When you play with the bull you get
the horns.:rfmd:
Yesterday, 02:32 PM
#60
chalklit1
Veteran Geek
I see no resemblence.....lol, overstock sells them2....wow....no pun intended!!!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 618
Yesterday, 02:58 PM
#61
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Palmyra, PA
Posts: 1,568
Real Name: Alex
crx21000
Super Geek
I'll take the SO any day
What a joke. This country is just law suit happy.
There are other homage watches out there that look way more similar than these two.
Yesterday, 03:00 PM
#62
mba1996
Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rocky Coast of Maine
Posts: 2,713
Real Name: Chuck
QUICK!!! Everyone into the water.....
http://www.bing.com/search?FORM=UP50...c=IE-SearchBox
__________________
Chuck
Yesterday, 03:07 PM
#63
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Palmyra, PA
Posts: 1,568
Real Name: Alex
crx21000
Super Geek
Man I looked at my order history to see if it come up, but it didn't. It is gone from ShopNBC website.
Still showing on my order history. LOL
The world we live in
cheers
Yesterday, 03:43 PM
#64
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 629
Real Name: Drew
amblerdw
Veteran Geek
I don't know. First thought when shop showed the watch was "Holy (crap)! Hamilton and swatch are going to
be pissed!"
It is such an iconic design, unlike the typical round watch dating back hundreds of years. We don't see many
movado homages, now do we? I love Larry and SO but this may have been a bit too far IMO.
Of course I am a hypocrite, then. I do love those Marina Militare homage watches!!! (b/c I can afford them)
__________________
Yesterday, 04:21 PM
#65
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mogollon Rim
Posts: 505
Real Name: Jeff
sportscenterisnext
Veteran Geek
Another frivolous lawsuit to tie up the courts. We've become a litigious society, we've all lost our freedom of
speech, to include what you type and post on-line. There are more pressing issues in this country of ours. A
slip of the tongue, taken out of context? I cannot say I did not see the presentation. Swatch and Stuhrling
will keep on manufacturing and selling watches. The lawyers will make their money, in the end a few
libations, a handshake or maybe a written or verbal apology if any and it will all be forgotten about.
__________________
You can't change the past, but you can ruin the present by worrying
over the future.
Yesterday, 04:53 PM
VenturaVega
Junior Member
New Geek
#66
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 20
No, you are incorrect. The Hamilton watch in question and that prompted the lawsuit IS the XXL Model
currently seen in MIB III, though Hamilton may put the complete line in the mix if it does go to court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJayBird
For those that say there are no similarities, the wrong Ventura model has been shown so far. The
Ventura shown so far is the Ventura XXL Elvis Aniversary model (which is the one that I own). The
one actually in question is smaller version. Judge for yourself.
I think the one mistake made was to actually mention anything about the original version. Well, it's
for the courts to decide. Good luck Larry.
And I'm sure we won't hear anything from Larry here since I'm sure that some else is watching these
posts.
Yesterday, 05:07 PM
#67
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gladstone,Oregon
Posts: 916
Real Name: Kevin
StreetBoss
Veteran Geek
I dont think Hamilton is wrong in wanting to protect their property rights to the design along with the
connection to the movie that they have paid dearly for. SO has had a good run with the homage watch
market. Maybe they stepped over the line this time? Thats why we have Judges and Attorneys so they can
figure this stuff out. JMHO
Kevin
Yesterday, 05:23 PM
#68
CBASS
Super Geek
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 1,592
I am a big Hamilton fan, but never liked this triangular design, it looks ugly. But it has always been a
Hamilton trade mark from the time Elvis wore one.
Very arrogant and bold of Stuhrling to copy such a famous Hamilton design and think no one will notice or
care…Swatch did the right thing.
Yesterday, 06:01 PM
#69
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 568
Larry Magen
WatchGeeks VIP
Veteran Geek
For the record....
Hey Guys,
This has been a very interesting thread to say the least.
I am not going to state my thoughts on the lawsuit itself... obviously.
And everyone here is entitled to their own opinion and I respect all the opinions on both sides... that I have
read here so far.
But for whatever it is worth, I want to just clarify one thing.... I did not mention anything about a movie.
The first time I heard anything about a watch appearing in a movie in connection with this episode is when I
read it in the press regarding this lawsuit. I never even knew about this watch or any watch similar to ours
appearing in a movie. So for those that are saying that I used a movie to sell our watch... sorry but it just
isn't true. I am sure that somewhere someone has a recording of the show... and the tape will show... that I
never said anything about a movie.
Peace, Love and All Good Things,
Larry
__________________
Larry A. Magen
President
STÜHRLING ORIGINAL, LLC
Yesterday, 06:17 PM
#70
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Whereabouts still unknown.
Posts: 1,092
toecutter
Super Geek
Isn't the design from 1957?
Seems a bit long in the tooth.
Even though the current model is an updated version.
Stuhrling has created an homage watch to, basically, another homage watch.
This will never see a courtroom.
I say settlement.
__________________
" Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! "
Yesterday, 06:23 PM
#71
Surelyuknow
Super Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 1,144
Real Name: Joel
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
The only basis for the suit will be the sales pitch and can they prove that referencing an upcoming
movie that features the real Hamilton Ventura helped sales or hurt Hamilton Venturas sales or hurt
their sales . I missed that show so if the Host referenced MIBIII and since Hamilton is a paid sponsor
to the movie there could be real trouble. If the host only referenced an upcoming movie it's not a
slam dunk case. Since amazon isn't being sued the sales pitch which I missed is the only real basis for
a suit or a case.
As said before, other companies make use of the same shape cases. The problem with the Stuhrling watch is
it looks to be a direct copy of the Hamilton Venturas and then referencing an upcoming movie (MIB III) on
air. If in fact that happened. Out of court settlement to follow.
__________________
The truth will set you free... but first, it will p_ss you off!
Yesterday, 06:36 PM
#72
Rog1
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Pompano Beach , Fl.
Posts: 12,954
Real Name: Roger
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by toecutter
This will never see a courtroom.
I say settlement.
I tend to agree with you ........but I would still have an appointment with Weil, Gotshal, and Manges
ASAP.....just in case....
__________________
Roger
Yesterday, 06:49 PM
#73
northeastguy
Senior Member
Super Geek
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ma
Posts: 1,638
Real Name: Ed
I own 2 of the Stuhrling Ricochet's and absolutely love them both. Before I invested in the Ricochet's, I did
some research and compared the Hamilton to Stuhrlings. Although a very small comparison between both, I
went with the Stuhrlings because they look better(to me). There are far more differences than there are
similarities. I'm not commenting on any lawsuits as its none of my business. Thats just business!! I will say
I'll always stick behind Stuhrling because they are a great company, with great people, that make incredible
timepieces. I own alot them and I also sell them in my store because of that fact...
__________________
The Russian Diver is what got me!
Yesterday, 06:52 PM
#74
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mpls
Posts: 4,765
Real Name: George
curiousgeorge
Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Magen
Hey Guys,
This has been a very interesting thread to say the least.
I am not going to state my thoughts on the lawsuit itself... obviously.
And everyone here is entitled to their own opinion and I respect all the opinions on both sides... that I
have read here so far.
But for whatever it is worth, I want to just clarify one thing.... I did not mention anything about a
movie. The first time I heard anything about a watch appearing in a movie in connection with this
episode is when I read it in the press regarding this lawsuit. I never even knew about this watch or
any watch similar to ours appearing in a movie. So for those that are saying that I used a movie to
sell our watch... sorry but it just isn't true. I am sure that somewhere someone has a recording of
the show... and the tape will show... that I never said anything about a movie.
Peace, Love and All Good Things,
Larry
The unfortunate thing in the press release about the case they are using your name in conjunction and the
host(who mentioned it)with mentioning the movie, I know you are way to savvy to do that , but other sites
are saying (who claim to have seen the show) it was the host (who I won't name) as the one who referenced
it. Which would be no fault of yours and if it even did happen you most likely wouldn't have even heard it.
Hope this ugly mess is cleaned fast and hopefully in the proper way.
Yesterday, 06:52 PM
#75
DrinkMeister
Senior Member
Senior Geek
Quote:
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Larry Magen
Hey Guys,
This has been a very interesting thread to say the least.
I am not going to state my thoughts on the lawsuit itself... obviously.
And everyone here is entitled to their own opinion and I respect all the opinions on both sides... that I
have read here so far.
But for whatever it is worth, I want to just clarify one thing.... I did not mention anything about a
movie. The first time I heard anything about a watch appearing in a movie in connection
with this episode is when I read it in the press regarding this lawsuit. I never even knew
about this watch or any watch similar to ours appearing in a movie. So for those that are saying that
I used a movie to sell our watch... sorry but it just isn't true. I am sure that somewhere someone has
a recording of the show... and the tape will show... that I never said anything about a movie.
Peace, Love and All Good Things,
Larry
Weren't you sitting next to tim temple when he said, "You guys could not have picked a better time to build
this, because this whole triangular thing has been championed by at least two of the major power brands
coming out at the Hall Of Dreams, and, of course, obviously commanding much higher price points than this.
If memory serves, I think there's another motion picture release now where this is once again being touted."
Yesterday, 06:57 PM
#76
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mpls
Posts: 4,765
Real Name: George
curiousgeorge
Master WatchGeek
Well so much for not mentioning who the host who referenced the movie was.
Yesterday, 07:18 PM
#77
DrinkMeister
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 128
Senior Member
Senior Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge
Well so much for not mentioning who the host who referenced the movie was.
We posted at the same time. I don't think it's classified info, the video being on shopnbc.com and all.
Yesterday, 07:41 PM
#78
Faustus
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 99
Member Geek
panerai luminor on bracelet look pretty close to the recent Imperious on bracelet I would say.
Yesterday, 08:04 PM
#79
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,824
Eztenn
Master WatchGeek
“What drink'st thou oft, instead of homage sweet, But poisoned flattery?”
William Shakespeare
__________________
Yesterday, 08:08 PM
The Big Guy
Member Geek
#80
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by toecutter
Swatch 2011 figure.
• Gross sales exceed CHF 7 billion for the first time to CHF 7'143 million, an increase of +21.7% over
2010 at constant exchange rates.
That's over 7.5 billion USD.
And I like Hamiltons, too.
You do know Mr. Hayek is dead?
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06-20-2012, 08:26 PM
Display Modes
#81
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 2,700
Real Name: Allen
anbick
Master WatchGeek
Open the floodgates. I wouldn't be surprised if Chronoswiss wasn't next..
__________________
06-20-2012, 08:46 PM
#82
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Whereabouts still unknown.
Posts: 1,098
toecutter
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Guy
You do know Mr. Hayek is dead?
Not junior.
__________________
" Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! "
06-20-2012, 09:10 PM
#83
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 1,327
Real Name: Phil
chronoman56
Super Geek
I am sorry if it was mentioned already , but who was the shopnbc host in all of this?
Phil.
__________________
06-20-2012, 10:48 PM
#84
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,326
Real Name: Kevin B
bayside1
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boboy
That is my point when I said I wonder if Stuhrling can survive this regardless of the outcome. Stuhrling's
profit margin has to be very thin, they are not the kind of company that can afford to spend money
defending a lawsuit. Lets hope Swatch is willing to settle out of court, the expenses alone of defending a
lawsuit could be very damaging to Stuhrling even if they win.
That is why a lot of big companies do this because they know the smaller companies cannot afford the
fight.
Hopefully, SO has a good insurance policy. Most policies have provisions that cover some of the costs involved in
such cases.
06-20-2012, 11:40 PM
#85
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hampton, VA
Posts: 568
Real Name: Dennis
Menace
Veteran Geek
Hope this matter is resolved honestly, fairly and quickly.
The Menace
06-20-2012, 11:42 PM
#86
meijin
Managing Director/Admin
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
Posts: 14,896
Real Name: Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Guy
You do know Mr. Hayek is dead?
You do know that Nicolas Hayek is dead and that his son Nick Hayek (Junior) is now running the company?
__________________
Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
06-21-2012, 12:29 AM
#87
Panda03Bear
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Silver Spring, MD.
Posts: 12,175
Real Name: Adam
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenturaVega
It's amazing this attitude has come from a creative person...someone within the design industry who
should be extra sensitive to the stealing of intellectual property by others for gain. You must know that
you can't copyright the cut of a suit, dress strap design or design trends, but a designer can copyright the
shape, color and construction of cologne and perfume bottles or the design of a pattern printed on fabric.
Copy those and you will find yourself in court pronto. Coach, Louis Vuitton, et al. spend millions a year
policing and suing fake bag manufacturers to protect their logos and bag designs. I am in the design
industry as well, and with all due respect, you should be ashamed...Unbelievable!
only problem is, coach, louis vuitton, etc, are suing people making couterfeit products, i.e. with the coach, etc.
name on them trying to be passed off as real. not simply similar designs. reading your posts, you are obviously
on the hamilton side of the suit, which is fine, but you are not even giving credence or thought to the other
side... why start a discussion if not willing to listen?
__________________
- Family, that's what's up - Black Eye Dye
06-21-2012, 08:15 AM
#88
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,326
Real Name: Kevin B
bayside1
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkMeister
Weren't you sitting next to tim temple when he said, "You guys could not have picked a better time to
build this, because this whole triangular thing has been championed by at least two of the major power
brands coming out at the Hall Of Dreams, and, of course, obviously commanding much higher price points
than this. If memory serves, I think there's another motion picture release now where this is once again
being touted."
Drink Meister, nice pick-up on the quote. Just remember that both Tim and Larry probably had producers
speaking to them in their ear pieces. Larry could have been tuning Tim out at the time.
How many times have you guys nodded to your wives that you were listening to them when in reality you were
completely oblivious to what they were saying? IT's probably no different in this case.
I bet Larry was listening to the person speaking into his ear and not Tim.
06-21-2012, 08:47 AM
#89
hokk54
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bedford
Posts: 8,551
Real Name: ScottyB
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panda03Bear
only problem is, coach, louis vuitton, etc, are suing people making couterfeit products, i.e. with the coach,
etc. name on them trying to be passed off as real. not simply similar designs. reading your posts, you are
obviously on the hamilton side of the suit, which is fine, but you are not even giving credence or thought
to the other side... why start a discussion if not willing to listen?
this is not about COUNTERFEITS or canal street knock-offs
this is a legitimate issue about WHERE IS THE LINE IN HOMAGES ?
IN MANUFACTURE & IN THE SPOKEN PROMOthis BEARS NO RELATION TO LOUS VUITTON enforcing trademark in THE HANGOVER for COUNTERFEIT
LUGGAGETHIS IS A LEGITIMATE HOMAGE BY SO IMHO-- a triangle aint TRADEMARKED by HAMMY/SWATCH
nor is A CIRCLE WITH MERCEDES HANDS by ROLLIEWHERE IS THE LINE ? a gray area-IN THE MEANTIME -- as has been re-iterated numerous times
IT IS FUGGIN GOLIATH WITH THE GOLD OF MIDAS BEATING THE STUFFING OUT OF SOMy loyalties are with SO-- the little guy from USA- friend and member of WG.
Now DAVEY-- i mean DVB-- just take your itty bitty sling shot and get a nice golf ball size rock-- plant it right in
the middle of THE GIANT'S FOREHEAD-- metaphorically of course.
06-21-2012, 09:21 AM
#90
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,890
Nismo
Moderator
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by hokk54
........
Now DAVEY-- i mean LM-- just take your itty bitty sling shot and get a nice golf ball size rock-- plant it
right in the middle of THE GIANT'S FOREHEAD-- metaphorically of course.
If Davey Von Burg has trouble locating some rocks in Brooklyn....
He can always reach for a suitable replacement that is both readily available & in abundant supply.
06-21-2012, 09:22 AM
#91
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,326
Real Name: Kevin B
bayside1
Super Geek
Swatch = Watch Monopoly
Declare your keeping all your movements to yourself and summarily pick off your competition one by one till
there are none.
06-21-2012, 09:36 AM
#92
hokk54
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bedford
Posts: 8,551
Real Name: ScottyB
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayside1
Swatch = Watch Monopoly
Declare your keeping all your movements to yourself and summarily pick off your competition one by one
till there are none.
SWATCH = SWISSNESS WATCH MONOPOLY
to paraphrase the late great ROBERT FROST:
SOMETHING THERE IS THAT DOESN'T LOVE A MONOPOLY
06-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Hotspur
Master WatchGeek
(wall)
#93
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Here - now
Posts: 3,306
Real Name: William (Bill)
Interesting to watch Hayek's master plan unfold. Most traditional Swiss marques are sitting on tons of cash Swiss luxury watches have never been more in demand or more profitable. Hayek's restriction of ETA movements
is forcing these manufacturers to use those piles of cash to upgrade their factories, develop their own movements
and become stronger and more competitive in the world market while maintaining the absolute Swiss domination
of the luxury segment. Brilliant.
Only those brands that are only marginally Swiss will suffer. Most will simply drop the "Swiss Made" designation
and move their entire production to the far East. Those trained craftsmen they employed in the Swiss end of
their China to Switzerland pipelines will eagerly be hired by the traditional Swiss makers who are experiencing a
shortage of trained watch workers brought about by the unprecedented demand for "Swiss made" timepieces.
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They all wound - the last one kills
(inscribed below a 15th century clock)
06-21-2012, 01:20 PM
Hoover
Senior Geek
#94
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 185
Real Name: Electrolux
It was also the timing of the SO watch debut on SNBC to coincide with the MIBIII movie's debut on the big screen
that is in question.
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No good deed goes unpunished
06-21-2012, 01:46 PM
#95
fullautoarmalite
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Roanoke, Tejas in DFW
Posts: 7,130
Real Name: Steve
True WatchGeek
I have a feeling, with the worlds economy in a collapse,(China excluded of course) this is just the tip of the
iceberg with this kind of thing.
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06-21-2012, 01:52 PM
#96
hokk54
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bedford
Posts: 8,551
Real Name: ScottyB
True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullautoarmalite
I have a feeling, with the worlds economy in a collapse,(China excluded of course) this is just the tip of the
iceberg with this kind of thing.
china INCLUDED
agree: SWISSNESS ECONOMIC NATIONALISM will break out all overNATIONALISM-JINGOISM-PROTECTIONISM-BALKANIZATION--COMMIES--FASCISTS-ANARCHISTS-- only the
beginningbread lines-bank runs-DOWN SIDE OF GLOBAL CAPITALISM
06-21-2012, 01:54 PM
PandaSean
Senior Geek
#97
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 295
They look similar, but they're not the same imo. Hamilton's got an actual triangular shaped case, and the SO has
a tonneau case with a triangular bezel. Similar but not the same.
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06-21-2012, 02:19 PM
#98
fullautoarmalite
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Roanoke, Tejas in DFW
Posts: 7,130
Real Name: Steve
True WatchGeek
Think about this, if Hamilton wins, it could shake the foundations of some of our favorite brands, look at the
Grand Divers and Pro Diver series, would Rolex smell blood ?
__________________
06-21-2012, 02:38 PM
#99
Boboy
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullautoarmalite
Think about this, if Hamilton wins, it could shake the foundations of some of our favorite brands, look at
the Grand Divers and Pro Diver series, would Rolex smell blood ?
No, this suit doesn't have legs. I believe it was done more to harass then anything. I think it comes down to
whatever is cheaper for SO to do, settle quickly for little or nothing or wait for it to get thrown out or ruled in
SOs favor.
06-21-2012, 03:12 PM
#100
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,089
Real Name: Rob
TM Maker
Super Geek
Always loved that design.
06-21-2012, 03:19 PM
#101
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,089
Real Name: Rob
TM Maker
Super Geek
Interesting about Mr. Shelby, Brent.
06-21-2012, 03:24 PM
#102
timekeeper2
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 213
Real Name: Adrian
Senior Geek
It's unfortunate.
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TimeKeeper
06-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Tandi
Veteran Geek
#103
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayside1
Swatch = Watch Monopoly
Declare your keeping all your movements to yourself and summarily pick off your competition one by one
till there are none.
Really??? How many other watch companies make swiss watches outside of swatch? Lots! AP, VC, GP, JLC, BP,
and Rolex just to name a few
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Timex, Android, Zeno, Ebel, Concord, Zenith, JLC, Rolex, Patek, Audemar
06-21-2012, 04:21 PM
#104
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,326
Real Name: Kevin B
bayside1
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandi
Really??? How many other watch companies make swiss watches outside of swatch? Lots! AP, VC, GP, JLC,
BP, and Rolex just to name a few
Ok, Swatch only represents 19 Brands I'll give you that.
The Swatch Group
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
-Balmain
-Blancpain
-Breguet
-Calvin Klein
-Certina
-Flik Flak
-Glashutte Original
-Hamilton
-Jaquet Droz
-Lean Hatot
-Longines
-Mido
-Omega
-Rado
-Swatch
-Tiffany & Co
-Tissot
-Union Glashutte
NOW, THE BIGGY:
Swatch Group Movements
- ETA
- Valjoux
- F. Piguet
-Unitas
Of the other brands you speak, how many of them rely on Swatch Group Movements?
06-22-2012, 04:02 AM
#105
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,187
Watch_Crazy
Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by meijin
You do know that Nicolas Hayek is dead and that his son Nick Hayek (Junior) is now running the company?
er, ahh, NOT actually, Mr. Michael, SIR! ...
...
...
________________________ ⌘ ________________________
...
In 2003, Nick Hayek, Jr. DID become the CEO of the Swatch Group ...
________________________ ⌘ ________________________
...
However, ol' Nick Hayek, Sr. remained Chairman of the Board of the Swatch Group ...
...
... until his un-time-ly (er, pun notice!) death on June 28, 2010! ...
________________________ ⌘ _______________________
Two days later, the Swatch Group Board of Directors defied 'popular sentiment' ...
...
... an' tossed ol' 'JR' 'under the bus' in favor of his (more charming 'n astute) sister, Nayla ...
... whom they immediately elected to replace Nick Hayek, Sr., as Chair of the Board (COB!) ...
...
(I sure hope that 'rash' on her right wrist wasn't from some "Haute Horologerie' Swatch Watch!)
________________________ ⌘ _______________________
So, uhmmm, Nick, Jr., works for (and at the discretion of) his sister! ...
...
... Perhaps that's why he smokes so many cigars & vents his frustration on homage mfg's! ...
...
(IMHO, this guy's a real 'yutz' ... or 'schmuck' or even a 'putz!')
________________________ ⌘ _______________________
... But I digress! ...
__________________
… aka … 'Crazy LARRY' -
06-22-2012, 04:42 AM
#106
meijin
Managing Director/Admin
True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
Posts: 14,896
Real Name: Michael
Larry, I am fully aware of the situation between Nayla and Nick Jr.
With that said, Nick Jr is the President and CEO of the Swatch Group. What I said stands. He has the day to day
responsibility to run the company while his sister is the Chairman of the board of directors....so, ummmm....he
maintains that day to day responsibility as I said.
__________________
Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
06-22-2012, 09:13 PM
#107
CohibaJoe
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 246
Senior Member
Senior Geek
This could be a Real "Limited Edition" from Stuhrling...
Invicta copies the Rolex Submariner or Daytona or Speedmaster
Corton's Solid Gold copies the Rolex President
Let this play out....
06-22-2012, 09:48 PM
#108
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
Posts: 291
Real Name: Bob
shazam
Senior Geek
If this case has any legs then the auto industry is in real trouble because almost every sedan on the market from
Jaguar to BMW as well as many American makes look just like a Ford Tarus. I guess they will all have to be
crushed too.
This whole thing is either a publicity stunt or a law suit dreamed up by some out of work ambulance chaser!
06-23-2012, 11:22 AM
seattlebari
Senior Geek
#109
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 252
The legal standard is much lower in civil litigation, jury or not. It is basically. "MORE LIKELY THAN NOT" that a
violation happened. Problem is, it is expensive to defend ones'
self, even if really not guilty.
If it ever goes to trial, my money is on Larry Magen, who will charm the jury into submission, and they will all
end up wearing Sturhlings.
GO LARRY!
06-23-2012, 01:03 PM
#110
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA
Posts: 2,293
Real Name: Eric.
emathieu
Super Geek
I certainly think that this watch takes "homage" too far (I'm not a fan of "homages" anyway though), but in
Larry's defense, he never misrepresented the watch (I saw the showing) and he actually plainly stated "We really
can't take full credit for this design" and he said that they were not the first company to make a design like this.
So, while I certainly wouldn't purchase and wear one of these myself (I also don't care for the classic Ventura
design), I don't think that Larry personally at any point tried to make it out to be something that it isn't. He
actually did the opposite in my mind.
That said, I do believe that Swatch has every right to defend its IP, and I think that many watch companies
should stop with the "homages" and focus on coming up with their own unique designs. Without the Hamilton
Ventura as a template, does anyone really think that this watch would have been made by SO? The shape is
unique.
Shazam, if SO made a copy of the very unique Ulysse Nardin Freak that you have as your avatar, do you not
think that UN should come after them to protect their unique design?
__________________
Eric.
06-23-2012, 01:19 PM
#111
bichondaddy1057
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 3,598
Real Name: Larry
Master WatchGeek
Well...no matter what any of us think....these things usually are settled by the lawyers.
Stuhrling officals have already stated that they are not concerned about the
lawsuit....that's good enough for me.
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Larry in Humble, Tx
06-23-2012, 04:43 PM
#112
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,368
Real Name: Mike
arcata1946
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichondaddy1057
LOL--that is what "they" always say before a trial!!
06-23-2012, 06:33 PM
#113
bichondaddy1057
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 3,598
Real Name: Larry
Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcata1946
LOL--that is what "they" always say before a trial!!
And if it does go to trial....again...it's the lawyers that control all of that. Who
knows...maybe a settlement is already in the making...none of us actually know. Conjecture
and what if's are nothing but a waste of time....and left to those who really have no life to
speak of to worry about all of this.
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Larry in Humble, Tx
06-23-2012, 06:38 PM
#114
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Whereabouts still unknown.
Posts: 1,098
toecutter
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayside1
Ok, Swatch only represents 19 Brands I'll give you that.
The Swatch Group
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
-Balmain
-Blancpain
-Breguet
-Calvin Klein
-Certina
-Flik Flak
-Glashutte Original
-Hamilton
-Jaquet Droz
-Lean Hatot
-Longines
-Mido
-Omega
-Rado
-Swatch
-Tiffany & Co
-Tissot
-Union Glashutte
NOW, THE BIGGY:
Swatch Group Movements
- ETA
- Valjoux
- F. Piguet
-Unitas
Of the other brands you speak, how many of them rely on Swatch Group Movements?
Don't think brands.
Don't even think movements.
Think componentry.
Mainly Nivarox.
Even people that make their own movements rely on Nivarox for hair springs.
They're just not made by a lot of folks.
This is where Swatch has the industry by the short hairs.
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06-23-2012, 06:48 PM
paceheart52
Senior Geek
#115
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 454
Hey Swatch Co.......get a life!!!!!!!!!!
06-23-2012, 08:07 PM
Boboy
Veteran Geek
#116
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by bichondaddy1057
I decided to edit because I didn't want this thread to devolve into something else...as Gilda Radner used to
say..."oh...never mind".
06-23-2012, 08:45 PM
#117
DrinkMeister
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 136
Senior Member
Senior Geek
Reading some of the replies to this post
06-23-2012, 08:52 PM
#118
Alarmguy
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Central, Ca
Posts: 1,211
Real Name: Gary
Super Geek
Well, the Automatic version of the Hammy and the SO are real close, but what the heck, I have the SO Black
one, and love it
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"My Kids"
06-23-2012, 08:59 PM
Boboy
Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkMeister
Reading some of the replies to this post
#119
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
LOL, that is how I felt after reading my pompous and stupid post. It made me cringe just to look at it. That is why
I edited it.
06-23-2012, 08:59 PM
#120
zulumack
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 3,862
Real Name: john
Master WatchGeek
black is not bad for $174 at overstock.com
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#121
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA
Posts: 2,293
Real Name: Eric.
emathieu
Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkMeister
Reading some of the replies to this post
Agreed. I'm rather amazed by some of them.
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Eric.
Yesterday, 03:20 AM
VenturaVega
Junior Member
New Geek
#122
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Funny you should say that to a company that has spent big money designing, tooling,
manufacturing and marketing an original design only to have SO shamelessly piggyback on it. I
imagine that's exactly what Hamilton is saying to SO: "Get a life...a design life."
When was the last time a watch company released a homage of a Stuhrling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by paceheart52
Hey Swatch Co.......get a life!!!!!!!!!!
Yesterday, 04:13 AM
kelek
Veteran Geek
#123
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by VenturaVega
Funny you should say that to a company that has spent big money designing, tooling,
manufacturing and marketing an original design only to have SO shamelessly piggyback on
it. I imagine that's exactly what Hamilton is saying to SO: "Get a life...a design life."
When was the last time a watch company released a homage of a Stuhrling?
+1
Yesterday, 10:06 PM
Hoover
Senior Geek
#124
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 185
Real Name: Electrolux
Didn't realize that there were this many armchair attorneys.
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Today, 12:25 AM
#125
Excelsior
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Member Geek
I didn't see the show in question, but it would seem to me that if the host didn't mention the movie
by name or describe it in enough detail to be identified, and if they didn't claim that the Sturling
watch itself was going to be in a specific movie, that it would be hard to prove their case, but
obviously, I could be wrong.
As for "homage" designs, I was previously told that a company cannot patent or copyright the
appearance of a watch, and based on what I see in the marketplace, that seems to hold true,
otherwise nearly every watchmaker would be getting sued. Invicta makes Speedway watches that
look like Rolexes (not to mention the Pro Diver), I just saw a U-Boat watch that looks like an
Invicta Russian Diver, there are various watches, including those from Citizen, that resemble A
Breitling Navitimer, and an Elgin that resembles an Audemars Piguet, just to name a few
examples. And look at how the Invicta logo kind of resembles the Breitling logo.
Personally, I think we are too sue-happy in this country. Why do the hosts have to tippy-toe
around the obvious? Everyone knows that a Speedway or Pro Diver looks like a Rolex. Why can't
the host say something like, "You can get the look of a Rolex for a lot less," as long as they make it
clear that the watch isn't a Rolex, doesn't use Rolex parts, and is not affiliated with Rolex in any
way.
Today, 08:35 AM
#126
DrinkMeister
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 136
Senior Member
Senior Geek
I see a lot of brushing this off as "we're too sue-happy in this country." While I agree with that
description of america (we have more lawyers in this country than any other) it has nothing to do
with this case as the swatch group is based in switzerland.
Today, 09:18 AM
Excelsior
Member Geek
#127
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Okay, but unless the movie was clearly identified or the product misrepresented, it seems kind of
frivolous.
Today, 10:24 AM
#128
DrinkMeister
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 136
Senior Member
Senior Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior
Okay, but unless the movie was clearly identified or the product misrepresented, it seems
kind of frivolous.
Break out the pen and paper, mock up some designs, spend loads of time with research and
development, market your product and in the end come out with a hugely successful product.
Then, i'll come along, make a knockoff of your design, piggyback off all of your hard work and stuff
my pockets full of currency, then we'll see if your attitude changes.
in the end it's not very original of stuhrling.
Today, 01:59 PM
#129
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ.
Posts: 291
Real Name: Bob
shazam
Senior Geek
The only reason I am responding to this thread is I am stuck here waiting for the Big
Brown truck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathieu
I certainly think that this watch takes "homage" too far (I'm not a fan of "homages" anyway
though), but in Larry's defense, he never misrepresented the watch (I saw the showing)
and he actually plainly stated "We really can't take full credit for this design" and he said
that they were not the first company to make a design like this.
So, while I certainly wouldn't purchase and wear one of these myself (I also don't care for
the classic Ventura design), I don't think that Larry personally at any point tried to make it
out to be something that it isn't. He actually did the opposite in my mind.
That said, I do believe that Swatch has every right to defend its IP, and I think that many
watch companies should stop with the "homages" and focus on coming up with their own
unique designs. Without the Hamilton Ventura as a template, does anyone really think that
this watch would have been made by SO? The shape is unique.
Shazam, if SO made a copy of the very unique Ulysse Nardin Freak that you have as your
avatar, do you not think that UN should come after them to protect their unique design?
This may offend some here, but the watch industry is a part of the fashion industry and what goes
around comes around. If you keep your old suit long enough, providing it still fits, it will be in
fashion again some day - same goes for your ties. The two watches in question are different
enough so as not to be a direct copy and besides the SO does not attempt to pass itself off as a
Hamilton and does not have Hamilton stamped on the back as a Chinese copy would have done.
There is differece a between a copy an a similar design, a copy is something which attempts
to pass it self off as something it's not, that is not the case with the SO in question here.
And yes, if SO could by some major miracle produce a watch of similar function and design type as
the UN Diablo, I am afraid would be impure enough to weaken, save the $120,000, and buy it in a
heart beat!
Today, 04:23 PM
#130
bichondaddy1057
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Humble, TX
Posts: 3,598
Real Name: Larry
Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazam
The only reason I am responding to this thread is I am stuck here waiting for the
Big Brown truck.
This may offend some here, but the watch industry is a part of the fashion industry and
what goes around comes around. If you keep your old suit long enough, providing it still fits,
it will be in fashion again some day - same goes for your ties. The two watches in question
are different enough so as not to be a direct copy and besides the SO does not attempt to
pass itself off as a Hamilton and does not have Hamilton stamped on the back as a Chinese
copy would have done. There is differece a between a copy an a similar design, a
copy is something which attempts to pass it self off as something it's not, that is not the
case with the SO in question here.
And yes, if SO could by some major miracle produce a watch of similar function and design
type as the UN Diablo, I am afraid would be impure enough to weaken, save the $120,000,
and buy it in a heart beat!
Totally agree with you.....
Plus....I think it's okay to have your own opinions on all this....but...that's all it
is...an opinion. Unless you are a lawyer that deals with international trademark
infridgement....I don't think either of the parties needs our help deciding what
is going to happen. And Drinkmeister.....the case was filed in New York City.....
__________________
Larry in Humble, Tx
Today, 05:05 PM
#131
stevemayer
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 540
Veteran Geek
I find it funny that any mention or discussion of replicas is forbidden here. Except for the replicas
being sold on ShopNBC I guess.
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