The Anafit E-Zine Newsletter Ed1.vol5

The Anafit E
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The Anafit E-Zine Newsletter
Ed1.vol5
An interview with Mike Miller
By Chuck Zurawski
Last month, I had a chance to do an interview with “The Man,” Mike Miller. Mike is a power-lifter, strongman,
highland game athlete, and currently a professional wrestler. Mike is one of the strongest men who has ever lived and
one of the coolest people you could ever meet.
The day before this interview, I called Mike to arrange a time that we could talk and was amazed how we talked like
old friends during the conversation. Mike has a humble, easy-going approach to life. He is a man whose family comes
before all, and it was an absolute privilege to interview a man who has more strength of character than physical
strength.
Once Mike and I got reacquainted, he began our conversation discussing what he had been up to that day.
Warning: This article contains some strong language. Mike and I both tend to swear at times in conversation.
Mike: I just got back from running some errands. Deb, [my wife], and I had to take the car down and some shit like
that. That’s about it. I have some time.
Chuck: Okay. Mike, like I said, I just want to thank you so much for letting us do this.
Mike: Awe dude! Please, it’s my pleasure.
Chuck: It’s nice to finally talk to you. I thought it was great yesterday that I had never talked with you before and you
were talking with me like you were my best friend.
Mike: You know what’s funny is that I honestly believe certain people are put in your life for a reason and it’s nice to
meet people that share your same views, you know? The world is such a friggin’ mess today, It’s like you really
wonder what’s going on out there. It’s nice to find people that think the same way you do.
Chuck: It’s also nice to find people that are decent.
Mike: That can get rough at times man.
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Chuck: How sad is that?
Mike: The world has changed a lot man. I don’t think it’s for the better. I look at my parents when I was a kid and
when we were growing up…the people that they had as friends…it’s a whole different world, it really is.
Chuck: With time constraints, with access to so many different forms of media and with everything else…
Mike: You know it’s funny you said that because we were talking about that today. I’m not a smoker and I don’t
agree with smoking in bars and things like that. I don’t think it’s a great idea, but I think if they have a section for it
it’s fine. Lord knows what else is out there; I just don’t like the smell of it. I’m not going to tell somebody else they
can’t do it. It’s there; it’s their right to do it. They are now going to fine parents in New Jersey that smoke in the car
with kids that are under 18.
Chuck: Are you serious? I head about that but I didn’t know that it was true.
Mike: Yes. To me, that’s a little bit extreme. Come on!
Chuck: You’re restricting rights.
Mike: Well, what it is, the people are no longer responsible for their own behavior. The government is now
monitoring our morality, our behavior, and our acts. What are they going to tell me next? What kind of sex I can
have?
Chuck: It’s almost like Orwell isn’t it?
Mike: Yeah, it’s a lot like Orwell. Orwell was off a couple years. I think he was right on the money but he was just off
a few years. I mean, that is exactly what is happening. Deb and I…my son Liam…this all ties together by the way…
my son Liam comes home from school and Deb makes these homemade tortilla chips. She sends them as snacks for
Liam. The school had sent this note home that you are not allowed to send your kids to school with cookies and stuff
like that for other kids. They say that they are trying to encourage healthy snacks. They gave us a list of what they
thought were health snacks and it was like, Sunny Delight and sun chips. I’m like are you kidding me? I of course I
wrote back that you people have spent no time studying nutrition because with the list you gave, you might as well
feed your kids doughnuts and coffee cake. Deb did the same thing. They don’t know what they are talking about.
They think because it’s orange juice that it’s healthy. Give the kids a fucking soda; it’s the same thing except the soda
doesn’t have vitamin C in it. Liam was like, “what’s a health drink Daddy?” I said water or flavored water with no
calories or sugar in it and you can also have a diet soda from time to time and you can have whole, unpasteurized
milk. I told him that you get plenty of Vitamin C in your fruit, and I don’t mind if you drink juice once in a while if
you cut it in half with water. He is very sugar responsive and if he drinks a juice you might as well of shoot a friggin’
eight ball into him. It’s not healthy. Juice is not a fucking healthy drink. People for years have tried to convince us
that juice was good for us. It just isn’t. There is not way to take fructose and make it healthy.
Chuck: It’s just like everything else that they said is healthy for all of these years and you come to find out that it’s
terrible for you.
Mike: Oh yeah. Pasta!
Chuck: I mean just look at the old food pyramid.
Mike: The old food pyramid is horrible. That’s the reason everyone is fat.
Chuck: (laughing) Isn’t that just great?
Mike: Well, it was written by a bunch of Doctors. So I emailed the school back and told them what was healthy and
what isn’t healthy and why. They are so sick of hearing from me they don’t even like to talk to me anymore
Chuck: (laughing)
Mike: We were talking about all this and I said to Deb, they are worried about people smoking in cars, yet we allow
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fast food restaurants to shoot up out of the ground by the millions. It’s one of the largest industries we have. Why
don’t we fine them for serving unhealthy food? Why are they not held accountable? You are so worried about people
smoking in cars and everything else, yet we allow these fast food industries to come whipping out of the ground. In
every shopping plaza there is three or four of them.
Chuck: And all that is crap!
Mike: Today we know more about heart disease, carcinogens and diabetes than we ever did before, yet it’s higher
than it’s ever been. Part of it goes back to the whole family issue. Parents aren’t home to be parents to their children.
Most of them have to work two jobs. You can tell your kid all you want to eat healthy, but if you don’t lead by
example and your children don’t see that, then they are not going to do it.
Chuck: If you don’t have a presence there to follow then they won’t. It’s sad because of the way it is now. When we
were growing up, one parent would work and your Mother stayed home with the children.
Mike: Yeah. My mother stayed home and my dad went to work!
Chuck: Now you look at it and both parents have to work all the time. It’s hard because the kids have to go to daycare
instead of being at home.
Mike: Not my fucking kids! Never! I would rather have less and have my kids at home. It’s nuts! My mom was home
my whole childhood. I would come home from school and she would be baking bread. Everything my mom made
when I was growing up was homemade. We had a garden and everything was canned. My dad hunted so we had dear
meat if not we had fresh beef from the farm down the road, we had fresh milk. My mom didn’t even start shopping in
the store until I was about 16. That was because we just couldn’t get things.
Chuck: Every interview I have ever read of you, you mention your parents and you talk about your childhood. Can
you tell me more about them? They deserve it. They obviously raised you correctly.
Mike: Yeah, I would like to think so. My mom’s name is Charlotte Miller and my dad’s name is Chris Miller. My dad
was a Chief Petty Officer First Class in the Navy. He was also a schoolteacher at Lilly High School in Pennsylvania.
My mom was a housewife. My mom is a real intelligent women and had a teaching degree from the University of
Maryland, but my mom was one of those people who can do just about anything. Literally, she is a gourmet cook. She
can bake cakes and paint peoples faces on them with chocolate. She is just an extraordinary cook. She is an
extraordinary seamstress and made bridal gowns for people…artist, musician. She can do just about anything. My dad
is a big outdoorsman. He hunted, fished and took me everywhere from the time I was a little kid and we still do stuff
together. When I was a little kid, 6 or 7 years old, he would go out for walks in the woods and he would drag me
along hunting. He taught me good values and morals and respect for nature. You know, just great parents. My dad
was really hard on me as a kid growing up. He was very solid and very firm. I was an only child and he demanded
that things were done and done right in a prompt time. I had responsibilities growing up as a kid and I didn’t shirk
them. My dad, he didn’t tell you twice. This is it, you have time to do it, get it done. I think my parents and my
grandparents and one of the guys I worked with on the farm, Luke Sandenburger, were real big influences in my life. I
have always credited my ability to achieve to them. They pushed me to be better and pushed me to do what I can and
pushed me to be the best I could possibly be. My dad always told me, “I don’t care what you do, if you are a garbage
man, be the best garbage man you can possibly be.” If you are going to pick something then do it right.
Chuck: It’s obvious, just talking to you and reading interviews of you that you have compassion for people and
respect for them. I was really impressed with talking to you yesterday and today. It is obvious that you were raised
correctly and it’s a total testament to them as well as you.
Mike: Thank you man. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
Chuck: The ability to excel? I just look at your track record from strongman to power lifting to the highland games to
now wrestling. Jesus! You have definitely done some excelling.
Mike: Thanks man! I really appreciate it.
Chuck: So what’s going on with the wrestling gig, champ?
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Mike: What I’m doing right now is I’m wrestling for Affa the Wild Samoan. He is a talent agent for the WWE. What
he does is the WWE puts you with him or whomever they decide to put you with. I have been working with him since
October. I started my training with him. I go to training some weeks for 3 times a week for 3 hours. Some weeks I go
five times a week. It all depends. Usually it’s 3 days a week, 3 hours a day. What we do is we go down and we do a
lot of physical stuff and drills. We do moves and it’s a great tool. What is great about Affa is he takes students and he
adapts a form to them. It’s not assembly line training. He spends a lot of time with his guys. He brings each guy to his
full potential because he realizes that each guy has a style. He doesn’t just teach everybody everything. He’s like,
“you’re a big guy and this is what your technique is going to be and this is what kind of style you have.” He is like
another portion of my family. Like I said, I have always felt that you meet people for a reason and if you are a good
person, good people come into your life. Affa and his wife have been like family to Deb and I. They took us to
Wrestlemania as their guests and got us backstage for everything and even got us into the Hall of Fame. These are
things that would have cost me thousands of dollars to see and I got the opportunity to meet all of these big guys from
the WWE. It was fantastic. It was an amazing experience.
Chuck: Just imagine – you are going to be doing that in a couple of years.
Mike: I know dude, I’m so excited. I am really looking forward to it. It’s nice to do something that you enjoy and
make money at, instead of sitting on an assembly line or doing something else. It’s kind of fun to do something you
like and make a good living at it.
Chuck: How did all of this start, Mike? How did you decide that you wanted to wrestle?
Mike: You know what happened? To be quite honest with you, when I was pushing my squat and pushing my total, I
wanted to get to 2700 lbs [squat, bench and deadlift total] last year, that was my goal. I ended up with a 2625lbs. I
started the year great, it was kicking you know? My bench was over 800lbs and everything was rolling. My bicep
tendonitis in my left arm really started to beat the crap out of me. I had bursitis in my elbow and bicep tendonitis.
Every time I would get under the squat bar and lay that weight on me it felt like my shoulder was just going to blow
off. I got to the point where my strength was way up. I banged out 3 meets in, I don’t know, like 4 or 6 weeks. You
know, something stupid? I squatted over 1200lbs three times over that time period.
Chuck: Which by the way is just stupidly amazing!
Mike: Thank you very much! I did the Arnold and the next day I did the squat for cash. I squatted like 1212lbs at the
Arnold and they said it wasn’t good. They said I didn’t have it stable at the top, which is fine but I gave it a run. The
next day I did two squats. I think I did 1005lbs and 1050lbs and I don’t even remember quite honestly what I did.
When I got done I felt like somebody had taken a baseball bat to me. I needed a break. I said, “that’s it, I’m done for
the weekend.” A week or two weeks later I did Gene Rychlak’s meet and I did my 2625lbs total. Then I went and did
the New England record breakers.
Chuck: Geez!
Mike: During that time I had a cold. It didn’t seem like a bad cold. I couldn’t get healthy for two months. I think my
CNS was just destroyed.
Chuck: Hell yes it was!
Mike: After the New England Record Breaker was over, which I had my shoulder taped up for, I was just a mess.
Chuck: You had beat yourself up completely.
Mike: Nicka had gone through heart surgery. Not making excuses, I was just beat. Come to find out I had bronchitis;
a double ear infection, a sinus infection and I don’t even know how I was walking upright.
Chuck: So let me get this straight. You did 1220lbs squat, you did a couple at a grand, you had a 2625 total with a
double ear infection and bronchitis?
Mike: I was shocked. I had no idea. I was just going outside between lifts taking in air and hacking up stuff. Deb’s
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like, “Come on, you got to come back inside and get this done.” All I wanted was for that meet to be over because I
knew when Gene’s meet was done, I was going to get to rest. I got done with Gene’s meet and I sat back and went to
the Doctor. He said that I needed to take a break. I decided to chill out a while. I started to rest and then I decided to
maybe cut some weight. I dropped some and really started to feel good again. My CNS had healed, my body had
healed and I was tired of powerlifting with the animosity and negativity. It’s kind of hard to escape. Deb and I were
talking and she said, “You have always talked about wrestling and you like that.” I didn’t want to go back to anything
that involved politics. I wanted to try something fun. Deb said, “What about wrestling?” I told her that I don’t even
know how to get involved with that. I’m pretty sure you just can’t walk in the door.
Chuck: (Laughs)
Mike: My wife is an amazing person. I never would have done any of this without her. She has put up with so much
stupidity and shit, So many people at my house every other day, training at weird hours. People just coming to my
door, saying, “Hey, I’m from New Hampshire/Massachusetts/Maine and no one was at the gym. Is this Mike Miller’s
house?” The phone calls in the middle of the night; she has been there 150 percent with me the whole time. She goes
home and says she is going to call the WWE. I’m like, “Okay, good luck with that.” So I leave down to my buddies to
get a tattoo, and she calls me says, “You have an appointment with John Laurinaitis from the WWE, who is the
director of talent in three weeks.” I said, “WHAT?” Deb said, “Yeah, I just got through to the main office, and was on
the phone for three hours and you have an appointment with him.” I said, “You have got to be kidding me!” She sat
there determined. They told her that they didn’t take anybody who didn’t have training. She asked them if she could
send them a video and some pictures. They said okay. She sent it to them. They liked my look and what I had done so
they decided they would at least talk to me. We ended up over at New Jersey at the Continental [Airlines] Arena. I
talked to them and they sent me out to Atlanta for a tryout out there. I got through the tryout, which was hell by the
way. It was six hours a day.
Chuck: How many days was it?
Mike: Five days. They just beat the crap out of me for five days.
Chuck: So you didn’t know anything about the moves or anything?
Mike: No, I had done amateur wrestling but not pro wrestling. I had no idea what that entailed. I got in the car the first
day after my six hours was up and I felt like somebody was driving a railroad stake through my head. I sat in an ice
bath that night. Deb called me and said, “Well, how did it go?” I said, “I don’t know, honey, I feel like I am dying
here.” She was really cool because I was just about in tears because I was in so much pain. She said if you don’t think
you can make it, come home, it’s okay. I’m like, “No fucking way!” I came all this way out here, I lost 40 lbs to do
this and I’m going to get this done, or at least finish the tryout. I got through that, passed my tryout and they sent me
to Affa’s. They said to work here. He will build your talents up and develop you. Affa has been terrific. I think I have
done five or six matches and I took the Super Heavy Weight title two weeks ago against Samu, and LA Smooth and I
took the Super Heavy Weight title from the great Samu.
Chuck: Congratulations.
Mike: Thank you. I was so excited.
Chuck: You can find all that information on www.wxwwrestling.com right?
Mike: Yep. They constantly update it. Metcast constantly updates the matches. So we got the title done and he is
continuing to develop me. I am scheduled to do a WWE RAW match on May 7th out at Penn State. That is still up in
the air but it looks like it’s going to fly. Affa basically works on getting what he thinks I need to know done. He helps
me out a lot. I have been doing appearances at GNC and Vitamin Shoppe. I have one at the local bar this Friday. It’s
really a lot of fun. It’s a lot of work but it’s different than powerlifting. It’s a good time. Everybody needs everybody.
The good guys need the bad guys in wrestling. The divas need the wrestlers, the wrestlers need the divas, and it’s like
a big cohesive unit. That is why there is no turmoil between the guys. If you are not going to help, you are going to
fuck everything up. When I went out to Wrestlemaina, the guys out there were talking to me like they had known me
for 10 years. They were like, “Hey big guy, what’s up?” Fit Findlay actually walked up to me and said, “Hey come
over here, I want you to kick the midget’s ass.”
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Chuck: (I couldn’t stop laughing)
Mike: Findlay has this Irish accent and he was like (in great Irish accent), “Hey you big bastard, come over and kick
this sonuvabitch’s ass.” We were all laughing (so was I) and the midget was like, “What did I do?” It is cool man, it
really is.
Chuck: How does the pain that you experience wrestling compare to the pain of squatting 1200lbs?
Mike: You know what? 1200lbs didn’t hurt. I hate to say that because I sound arrogant.
Chuck: No, you don’t.
Mike: I think the powerlifting hurt when I started, but my body got so accustomed to carrying the weight and I was so
big that it took the air away from me, but it doesn’t hurt. When you get done with the meet you usually feel like a bag
of smashed ass.
Chuck: (laughing) A bag of smashed ass?
Mike: I had never felt in powerlifting like I had just been destroyed. With wrestling, it kind of felt like somebody took
me out in the yard and just started beating me with a pickaxe handle and then stopped when I was just about dead.
Then they take me back out and beat me again with the pickaxe handle. When you are throwing yourself against some
¾ inch plywood with a little bit of foam, you do that 40 or 50 times in a night and you do it wrong for the first day, it
fucking hurts, man. I was home everyday sitting in a tub full of 10 lbs or 20 lbs bags of ice just cooling off my joints,
trying to get myself used to it.
Chuck: That’s just awesome, Mike. You always hear a lot about what it takes. Growing up I watched it with Ric Flair
and Hulk Hogan. You don’t realize what these guys are still putting themselves through. These guys are older dudes,
but the stuff that they still put their body through is amazing.
Mike: These guys are athletes. When you are watching it you think, these guys can’t really be getting hit like that.
You do! You do! You don’t take a full-blown shot, but you take a shot. After doing a few hours of it, you are pretty
beat up and pretty tired. There is not joke to it. I underestimated it greatly. When I got involved in it, I gained a
tremendous amount of respect for them. You look at the moves and they are so smooth. Then there is me with two left
hands and two left feet thinking, Holy shit, how do I do this?
Chuck: Not only that, but when you look at their physiques right now they are ripped. I remember Jessie the Body
talking about how he would keep an extra layer of fat on him to protect him from the mats. But looking at these guys
now you have to be 10 percent body fat or less. It’s crazy.
Mike: It’s nuts man. I’m at 14 percent and I am out of shape compared to those guys.
Chuck: By the way, you look fantastic. I seen the pictures and I watched one of your matches on WXW and cannot
believe the change. I have followed your career for a long time. I followed the 1200lbs squats and the stupid Internet
bullshit and I am amazed at your strength and physique, but I am more amazed at the power of your mind. I really
think that you are one of the strongest men who have ever lived. I put you in the same breath as Ed Coan, Bill
Kazmaier and Paul Anderson.
Mike: I really appreciate that. That is a nice compliment.
Chuck: Seriously, to me and to everyone else, you are one of the strongest men who has ever lived, but looking at
your accomplishments and the transition between strongman, powerlifting and now wrestling and to excel in each, it’s
a testament to your mind and the people supporting you.
Mike: I really attribute it to the way I was brought up and my huge support group. My guys at the gym have always
been behind me. Bobby Fields, Brain Weston, Bill Crawford, Sebastian Burns. Whenever I needed anything those
guys were always there for me. If I needed a spot on an off day those guys were there for me. If I needed somebody to
help me at a meet, those guys were there for me. Never any questions asked, no, “Mike, I need Money”, no, “Mike,
buy me lunch.” Nothing. I have always told Deb that when I finally decide that my time is up here, I can honestly say
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that I did everything the way I wanted to do it and I really had a great bunch of friends around me. Despite all the
dumb shit that happened on the internet, I had a lot of friends, a lot of good friends that I could call at two in the
morning that it didn’t bother me. It did in the beginning, but they said to just ignore that dumb shit. They told me that
I just didn’t need to deal with it. I am a lucky man. I have a great family and great friends. Sometimes I get down on
myself because I feel that things are taking way too long or that shit isn’t going the way I want it to and I sit back and
look at some of the lives that people live and I got to really consider myself very fortunate and very lucky.
Chuck: You know Mike, you give that back too. I have read many interviews about you and I have never heard a
negative word. You have always been up front with people and have done things for people willingly. People just give
that back to you in return. I try to be the same way.
Mike: Karma is a big thing man.
Chuck: I have a friend, Bill – Monster on www.afboard.com – who is a Buddhist. He is always speaking to me of
karma.
Mike: I am a big believer in karma. I think you should treat people the way that you would like to be treated. If
everybody did that, the world would be such a better place to live in. It takes you a couple of minutes to give
somebody a hand and I have always liked that I could sit in my office at the gym and teenage guys and football
players don’t hesitate to come in and talk to me. “Hey Mike, I need some more work on my front delts, what do I have
to do?” “I want to get my back stronger, what do I have to do?” I like to talk about it. If somebody wants to talk about
lifting, I can talk about it for days.
Chuck: When you came over to post on the www.afboard.com, I welcomed you and told you that I had a million
questions to ask you. You shot me your email right away without blinking. You told me if I needed anything to say
so. It does come back to you. I really appreciate it man.
Mike: Absolutely no problem man. It is like with the wrestling, those guys help me. They always tell me to take my
time, don’t worry and I will get it and relax. It’s funny because it’s so opposite of powerlifting. I am so stiff and so
tight from doing powerlifting and was so intense that now in wrestling I can sit back and have a good time. I have
been powerlifting for so long I don’t know how to relax and do it.
Chuck: I obviously haven’t powerlifted on your level. I didn’t bodybuild on that type of level either, but doing
bodybuilding for 15 years, I got sick of it. It’s so subjective. You are going on people’s opinions of how you look. I
got into powerlifting because I really loved the idea of just me against the weights. I came to find out, politics were
prevalent in that too. I can see it.
Mike: It’s sad, it really is.
Chuck: It is because it’s such a pure sport.
Mike: Like you said, it’s you against the weight. It’s starting to turn into a mess. It’s sad because it’s a sport that
anyone can compete in. Guys who started backyard meets...nothing for nothing, but backyard meets made
powerlifting the great sport that it is. Gene Rychlak gets 150 guys at that meet. It’s all local guys from New Jersey,
New York and PA getting together and they lift against each other and the number. I never lifted against anybody. I
always lifted against me.
Chuck: That’s because not many people can lift in your numbers, Mike (small laugh).
Mike: Even when people were present, I always looked to do better than the last meet I did. I always wanted to out
total myself. I never knew where I stood in a meet. When I did the IPA Nationals at York in 2002 or 2003, I totaled
2405lbs. The guy who took second place totaled 2400lbs. I had no idea he was that close. I didn’t even think to put
another 5lbs or 10 lbs on the bar because I didn’t know or care. Trophies are just things to put on the wall. A lot of
times I didn’t even take the trophies. You know, they are fleeting. They don’t really mean a whole lot to me. The
opportunity to go out and do better than I did last time and talk to people and learn new things and give people advise
and have a good time was the most important thing. My kids always loved going, it was like a mini-vacation. We
would leave Thursday or Friday wherever we were going. The kids got to eat out at a restaurant and swim in the hotel
pool. It was just a good time, good family time.
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Chuck: You have a ring-name in wrestling. It’s Rage isn’t it? How did you get that and the Mule nickname?
Mike: Bill Crawford wrote an article about the first meet I did. Bill coined that phrase because in the article is said,
“Bill Crawford was beating Mike Miller like a rented Mule.”
Chuck: (Laughter)
Mike: He was just smacking me on the back before I did my lifts. I don’t know if you know Bill personally, but he’s a
pretty intense guy. I was getting on the bench and he was just chewing me up to psyche me up and ever since then it
kind of stuck.
Chuck: How about the Rage ring-name?
Mike: Rage has to do more with my temperament at times. When I was powerlifting I was a pretty intense guy and I
did a couple stupid things like whipped plates across the gym.
Chuck: (Laughter)
Mike: There are marks in the concrete when I tossed a couple hundred lbs plates against the wall. I was a pretty angry
guy a lot of the times I was powerlifting. If I missed a lift it wasn’t a good thing. I’ve knocked equipment down and
knocked equipment over and kicked things across the room. My wife would just roll her eyes and walk out of the
gym. “When you calm down let me know what’s going on.” It’s funny that I have calmed down quite a bit. My
weight is down and my carbohydrates are under control and I don’t get that sugar anger. I’m pretty mellow now and
now I have to go into a ring and act like a lunatic. I actually have to work at it some days to act angry.
Chuck: That is another thing that I have noticed. A lot of the bigger guys that you meet are such mellow, decent
people.
Mike: I think that’s a security issue and they are comfortable with who they are. They don’t have anything to prove to
anybody. They do their job, they work out hard, and know who they are and what they are about. It’s one of those
things where they are just not worried about it.
Chuck: That is obviously the same thing with you. It’s a weird dichotomy that you seem like such a nice person and
then when you go in the gym while powerlifting you get so upset and pissed off.
Mike: The biggest thing with it is you have to learn to separate your gym and wrestling attitude from your home life.
When I walk through the door and see my family I flip that switch. Maybe I didn’t do as good in wrestling or maybe
the gym wasn’t what I wanted to be. I just let it go. The baby makes that easy. He is 22 months old and you sure as
shit can’t get upset with him for anything.
Chuck: What is his name?
Mike: Aonghus.
Chuck: Can you name your kids? What are their names?
Mike: The youngest is Aonghus. His name is Aonghus Oakley Aims Miller. It’s an old family name. The next one is
Liam, Liam just turned nine. His name is Liam Michael Cullen Miller. Nika Capri just turned 14. Kayla is 15 and
Katherine is 16 and Aaron is 18.
Chuck: Wow! Six Kids.
Mike: Yeah, that’s the whole Posse. If we had a little more time I would have banged out one more.
Chuck: (laughs)
Mike: What Deb told me a month ago -- in her dad’s family, Oakley is a big family name. It’s a Scottish name. They
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are all Oakley R. I never really thought to ask him what the ‘R’ was for. Deb told me it stood for Rutger. I was like,
“Rutger?” I told her that I couldn’t believe she didn’t tell me that she had Rutgers in her family. She said, “Why?” I
said I would have named the kids Rutger. I love that name. How fucking hardcore is Rutger?
Chuck: (Bust out laughing)
Mike: It’s a fabulous name isn’t it? Deb said, “If I would have known.” Deb’s maiden name is Aims. She is real fond
of the Scottish name and she wanted to keep Aims because there isn’t many around. We wanted to keep that alive.
Aonghus kind of kept that alive. What is funny is I was the last Miller. Now I have three of them bouncing around to
keep the name living on.
Chuck: I’ll tell you what, they do keep you grounded.
Mike: They do, don’t they?
Chuck: Definitely! I guess we should hit the training real quick. Can you tell me what your typical day looks like? I
know you described that to me yesterday, but I want people to know how dedicated you are to this.
Mike: Sure. I get up around 630am every day. Depending on where I am, I bang out 40 or 45 minutes of cardio. I go
home and eat and take the kids to school. I come back down and do my thing at the gym. I then work out for an hour
or two hours a body part depending on what it is. I get done and then have something to eat. I go home and goof off
and hang out with the kids for a while. I then go to wrestling and I wrestle 3 to 5 days a week for 3 hours a day. Then
once or twice a month we do a match on a Saturday or Sunday and it’s an all day thing. You usually go there at 10am
and are there to 10pm at night. You have to shoot the promos and get everything ready. We do that and then I come
back and do 45 minutes or an hour of cardio a night. I go home and watch about 45 minutes of television, fart around
with the kids and then go to sleep. I get up the next day and start all over again.
Chuck: So you’re not too busy then?
Mike: (Laugh) It’s a busy schedule. My whole life is like that and if I stopped doing that I would probably die. I don’t
know what I do with myself. I am not too good with idle hands or too much free time.
Chuck: I am not either. Mike, when you were powerlifting, you were doing conjugated periodization, progressive
overload, ESP (Enhanced Strength and Performance). How does your training differ from when you were doing
powerlifting?
Mike: It’s completely different. I change my workout every two months. What I try and do is maintain heavy stuff so
I don’t lose all my strength and power. I still do deadlifts and maintain a 400lbs or 500lbs bench. I can bang out
405lbs for 3 or 5. I don’t do a whole lot of flat benching to be honest; I do a lot of incline work. I squat but I don’t go
over 600lbs on my squat anymore. Everything is raw. No shirts, no wraps, just raw lifting. I do basically a
bodybuilding workout. I pick two bodyparts and depending on what I am doing I go after a real heavy pump or do 5
or 6 sets of a certain exercise. I work on definition and mass building. It’s bodybuilding and functional strength. I still
do my stones because that’s functional strength. It gives you applied strength for daily work. I stretch a lot. It’s
something I never did. When I go to wrestling I do a 1000 body weight squats, pushups and situps. I do a lot of body
weight work.
Chuck: It’s so much easier on your joints too.
Mike: It is, Oh My God it is. You know, my strength is always there. It’s just a question of recruiting it. I picked up a
360lb man the other day wrestling, picked him up on my shoulder and did a powerslam. They said, “Nobody has ever
done that to Samu before.” I was like; “I guess there is a first for everything.” What’s nice is I have the strength to do
that. I can still press a 300lbs guy over my head. It’s something I don’t want to lose. I don’t need to be psychotic
strong, but I do need to maintain my farm strength.
Chuck: My Grandfather Frank Polesnek was a farmer when young. The work capacity that he had, Louis calls it GPP
(General Physical Preparedness) is crazy. I have never seen anybody like that before. The farming had to lead to your
strength now and your abilities.
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Mike: Oh it did. Growing up working on a farm? Absolutely. Farming is a sunrise to sunset job. You learn to do
everything. If something is there and you need to move it, you move it. Being strong on a farm as a kid growing up
was important because it’s like a manhood thing. We would see how many hay bails we could lift or how high you
could throw one. You would see something heavy and a guy would say, “I’ll bet you can’t pick that up.” That is just
the way it was. We used to lay under my buddy Andy Sandburger’s Chevelle and press it. We would see how many
times we could press it. Just dumb shit like that. I think it’s just an attitude when you grow up carrying milk jugs.
How do you think the farmer walk (See post on www.afboard.com about the farmer walk) came about? Carrying milk
cans across the street. We didn’t know how heavy they were. We just carried them because the guy did it before you.
Chuck: I remember my Grandfather would work from sun up to sun down, even after he retired. Even up until two
days before he died, he was working in his yard ten hours a day.
Mike: Absolutely. My buddy, his dad, Luke Sandburg, I remember came home from school one time because he had a
lung removed and I drove down on the street and he was sitting on a tractor plowing the field. He said, “The work has
to get done. I can’t sit in a hospital!” I was like, “Are you kidding me?”
Chuck: That is basically how you are right now. You make sure the training gets done, the family gets done and so
does everything else.
Mike: It’s all about balance man. It’s all about balance.
Chuck: You started relatively late in the powerlifting game didn’t you?
Mike: Yeah, it was 30 or 31.
Chuck: And it took you how long to break a 1000lbs squat?
Mike: Umm. I started as a full meet guy and then I stopped and became a bench specialist and stayed that way. The
guys were breaking my balls one day. “You probably can’t even squat your bodyweight anymore.” They teased me
and heckled me until I went in the back and the first squat out of the box after not squatting for four or five years was
860lbs. That was with briefs on and running sneakers. They said, “You should probably start again, you could break a
thousand in 4 months.” In 4 months I did a 1015 in York and 14 months later I did 1200lbs.
Chuck: Mike, that is just crazy.
Mike: (Laughing) Thanks man! It is just determination. I get impatient when I see something I want to do; it makes
me nuts until I get it done. I just work hard at things and try and get them finished.
Chuck: As far as for competition lifts, what were your best?
Mike: My best squat was 1220lbs, my best bench was 805lbs and my best deadlift was 740lbs. I missed 800lbs at the
New England Record Breakers. I had it up and to my knees and couldn’t hold on to it.
Chuck: What about gym lifts, Mike?
Mike: I don’t like talking about gym lifts. I did a 1300lbs squat in the gym. I did 905lbs on the bench before I was
squatting. To be honest, my best deadlift in competition is better than my best gym lift. I was never much of a
deadlifter. I was starting to get the hang of it.
Chuck: I remember that you were always pissed off over your deadlift.
Mike: You know what? My whole trouble with my deadlift was technique. I was trying to do everyone else’s
technique. I remember I couldn’t get over 650lbs and I remember being so pissed off that I went over and did the old
Louis Cyr deadlift with the rounded back. I reached down, grabbed the bar and ripped it from the ground. Done deal!
After that it was just a mind game for me because I couldn’t believe I did it. I started adding weight at the end of
every meet and started to go up 10 lbs every time just to make sure I got my 700lbs plus lift in to keep my total high.
The last meet I did I opened at 740lbs or 750lbs and went right to 800lbs and had it up to my knees and just couldn’t
hang on to it. I think with a little more time it would have gone with a little more training on it.
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Chuck: I remember when the record for total was around 2700lbs. It was Gary Frank I believe. I remember telling
people on the board that Mike is going to hit 2800lbs.
Mike: I kind of wish I would have gotten that done but the wrestling is taking over now. I am just going to have to put
it on the back burner.
Chuck: Yeah, but when you get done wrestling it will still be there.
Mike: Yeah, I’ll go back and piss everybody off and total 2800lbs at 50. (Laughing)
Chuck: I wouldn’t put it past you. Can you describe a little for me your ESP training and zero momentum? How did
that evolve?
Mike: That is something I came up with prior to squatting 1200lbs. I wanted to find something that I could use to just
develop sick strength. I am not one of those guys who uses mountains and mountains of bands and chains. I like to
use them but you shouldn’t use them all the time. I wanted to find something that would just make me brutally strong
throughout the entire phase of the lift. You see guys squatting and they lose it at the bottom or the top. You see guys
bench and again they lose it at the bottom or the top. I wanted to figure out a way so that I could train at 90 percent or
greater all the time without destroying my CNS. That is kind of where that came in. The zero momentum stuff I used
because what that does is make you brutally strong throughout the entire phase of the lift. The phrase “zero
momentum,” means exactly that: you don’t use any momentum or explosive momentum to complete the lift. The
weight is so heavy it teaches you to grind. People always ask me how do I squat a thousand lbs fast. I tell them to
squat 1100lbs slowly. The stronger you are, the faster you can move weight from point A to point B. It’s just a matter
of strength. The zero momentum is combination of bands and bar weights and chain weight. It is so ungodly heavy
that you can only accomplish a couple of reps in a set. What it did was force you to grind and grind and push weight
to a lockout and off your chest. The bands gave you tension from the top to the bottom, the bar weight gave you the
constant tension of straight weight and the chains gave the active resistance. You have static resistance, active
resistance and straight bar weight. The combination works really well. I don’t think I have ever missed a lift flat out
except for the 1212lbs that they called me on. You know, I have dumped weight on accident on my belly but I don’t
think I have ever been called for not locking the bar. I either miss the lift flat out by dumping it, but I don’t think me
or any of my guys were called on it. You would get to the top and you would push right through. That is what the zero
momentum did.
Chuck: So the zero momentum is chains, bands and bar weight. You are trying to make sure you don’t move the bar
fast and grind the weight?
Mike: The weight is so heavy you can’t move the bar quickly.
Chuck: Those were the 5 week waves that you posted [on the discussion board] www.afboard.com right?
Mike: Exactly. The zero momentum is done with the bench and the squat. I never really did a whole lot for the
deadlift. You can do it, but it really plays hell with lower back. I do it once during a training cycle or once every 5
weeks. You can’t do it more than that. It just beats the shit out of you.
Chuck: I have read about Prilepin’s Principle. He stated that you can’t lift more that 90 percent of your 1 rep max for
more that 2 weeks in a row. It’s amazing that you found a way around this.
Mike: I was real happy about that because I got sick of that theory myself. Everybody was always telling me that you
couldn’t train over 90 percent. I was like, Bullshit! Why not? Nothing for nothing, but look at the old strongmen
Louis Cyr and Paul Anderson. You take a guy like Luke Sandburg who works out at the farm. The guy can lift 500lbs,
just pick it up off the ground without doing any kind of warm-up or stretching. I saw him move engine blocks. My
whole thought process was that if guys can do that, why do we have to baby ourselves to the point that we stop lifting
heavy to get stronger? If you can train at 90 percent and you can maintain that strength non-stop, you can get stronger
a lot faster. That is why I think I could go from 1000lbs to 1200lbs in 14 months.
Chuck: A friend of mine used to tell me, there are people who think about what they can’t do and there are people
who think about “Why can’t I do it?”
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Mike: It’s the mind. I really believe that lifting is [all in] your mind. If you believe you are going to get through it, you
are. It’s a way of looking at life. You know who writes really good stuff about that? Randy Strasser. Randy Strasser
from Iron Mind? He writes for Milo, the strength journal. It’s great mental stuff. His book “Winning Ways” is what
it’s called. It’s about how to succeed in the gym and out of the gym. It is all mental stuff. How you approach things,
the words that you use. My wife actually, to be quite honest, was a major factor in that. Visualizing you completing
the lift from top to bottom. It’s about, what do I have to do to get this done? What body parts do I have to make
stronger? What was nice was Deb would watch me lift all the time and tell me what I needed to fix in the squat. She
would tell me that my core strength wasn’t strong enough because I was shaking when I had the weight. She would
suggest to do more sit-ups or stuff like that. I would apply it. I tended to overdo it, but it always ended up working for
me. I do a lot of grappler work or heavy weighted sit-ups to build the shit out of my core. With my deadlift I started to
do heavy good mornings because if I was going to do a round back deadlift I have to have a strong lower back. I
worked my way up to 600lbs good mornings with chain weight and made my lower back as strong as I could. One of
the things people would ask about is, “How are your knees and back?” I tell them that they are fine. It’s just a matter
of getting your body used to dealing with that weight.
Chuck: It’s funny. My training group and I will do good mornings at the gym. I have done a decent weight for me at
400lbs on them. Bill hit 400lbs or 500lbs, Joe would hit even higher. We have a trainer that just trains bodybuilding
and beginning clients. She will always point us out to her clients and say, “Don’t do what those guys are doing. You
will hurt your back.” I hurt my back a lot more when I was bodybuilder and didn’t do this stuff than [I did] while
powerlifting.
Mike: Because the back muscles weren’t strong. That is the same thing [training theory] as doctors and trainers. They
don’t want you to use your lower back. “Bend at your knees to pick that up!” YOU ARE A FUCKING HINGE! Make
the back strong. If you can’t bend over and pick up your bodyweight without bending at the knees then you have a
problem.
Chuck: You are not functionally strong then. You are not functionally capable.
Mike: Myself, I usually don’t go over two or three plates with the good mornings because I am just doing them for
volume. I still do them. I can still pick 700lbs off the ground and shit like that. You are absolutely right; they are so
afraid and paranoid. Get the fuck out of here!
Chuck: What did somebody say? It’s the pussification of America?
Mike: Was it my wife? (Laughing) That is her phrase. She coined that. The Pussification of the Modern Male.
Chuck: You trained with the Metal Militia guys right? Bill Crawford and Sebastian Burns? How did all of that come
about?
Mike: Bill and Sebastian came down to one of my meets. [It was] the very first meet that Deb orchestrated. It was an
IPA Pennsylvania State Championship Strength Spectacular. Sebastian benched 700lbs there for the first time. I said,
“You guys have got to show me how to use this shirt.” And they did and we have been friends forever since.
Chuck: Can you describe the whole metal militia training style? Doesn’t it go from 5 board, 4 board, 3 board etc?
(Board training is used often during the bench Press. Different widths of boards are placed on the chest to work a
particular phase of the bench. The boards allow the weight of the bar to transfer into the chest and shoulder areas and
work sticking points that one may have.)
Mike: The Metal Militia training style is flat out progressive overload. You go in the gym each week, lift as heavy as
you can, bang out a heavy triple and every couple of weeks you do a big single. Every time you do a heavy triple you
do it heavier than the week before. That is all there is to it, it’s not that complicated. The board, if you did 405 of a 4
board last week, next time you try and go heavier. It’s just progressive overload. Metal Militia is great 6 to 8 week
training cycles at the most because it does tax your CNS. Bill will go a whole summer and not bench and then train 10
weeks out for the Arnold and bench fucking 800lbs.
Chuck: (laughs)
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Mike: I’m not joking man. He is a fucking animal. It’s mental again. I remember when I was getting ready to bench
700lbs for the first time and I kept missing it at the top. He made me try it 9 fucking times and this was after we spent
the night drinking until 4 in the morning, got up, didn’t even eat, went 4 wheeling in the mountains, I puked all over
the place, went down and worked out. He told me, “If you can get this close and you are in rotten shape, you are in
good shape for the meet.”
Chuck: (Laughing)
Mike: I killed it at the meet. I will remember that day as clear as a bell. Bill is an animal and a great trainer and so is
Sebastian.
Chuck: Wasn’t the whole thing with Metal Militia to also treat others with respect and how you want to be treated?
Mike: Yep. When we started, it was so good because everybody would meet here on the weekends and lift together
and kick ass and do a great job and have fun and then go over to my house and eat. It was really growing and
unfortunately there is always a skunk in the woodpile and things started to separate and guys started to develop
animosity. It’s kind of like Rome. No matter what happens it’s going to get torn up and can’t stay that way because
somebody is going to get jealous or pissed off or get their feelings hurt. That is just what happened. We were having a
good time and everything was rolling and it just stopped. I was bummed to see it go.
Chuck: You did the Highland games too right?
Mike: Yep. I did that too and it’s a lot of fun. I couldn’t do that and powerlift at the same time.
Chuck: We have a guy on our board, Craig Smith who is married to Kara Bohigian. Craig does the Highland games
professionally. He introduced me to doing Zercher squats and now wants me to do Zercher deadlifts. It seems like
people like Craig, Kara and yourself are always changing your training around. None of you seem afraid to try new
things or go out of your comfort zone.
Mike: You have to change because the body gets acclimated and lazy. The human body by nature is lazy. It goes back
to being a caveman. The body will not exert more force than it absolutely has to at any given motion. If you do that
you never get stronger. So you have to teach your body and the only way to do that is to constantly keep things
stressed and to constantly keep things changed. If you’re going to bench 350 pounds, your body is not going to exert
500 pounds of force on that bar. So that’s where bands and chains and things like that come into play because it
teaches you how to do that. I kind of look at putting on muscle like annual rings on a tree, every year you grow and
you get a little bit bigger and you put on the small dense rings. Powerlifters are a different type of athlete. I had so
much muscle underneath the body fat that I didn’t even know it. It’s good, thick, dense, functional muscle due to
years of powerlifting. All I had to do was get the weight off to find it. Powerlifters are I think the most dedicated
athletes that you will ever meet. I mean, who else does a sport for little or no pay? Talk about innovation. Nobody is
more innovative when it comes to putting 5lbs or 10 lbs on their squat and bench press than a powerlifter. I mean
these guys will literally try fucking anything. If Louis Simmons wrote an article that said, “If you eat dog shit, it will
increase your protein uptake by 30 percent and it will transfer to bar strength by 5 percent,” guys would eat dog shit.
There is no doubt about it. They are just hardcore guys who do it for nothing.
Chuck: They do it because they love to do it. It’s a total Zen. That’s the place, man. That is my time.
Mike: Yep. That is your time.
Chuck: Every sport that you do, your physique changes. What do you weigh right now Mike?
Mike: 304lbs.
Chuck: What did you weigh at your heaviest?
Mike: 440lbs, with a 57-inch waist.
Chuck: I tell people that diet is everything.
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Mike: Diet is the key man. It’s almost more important than lifting. The more you do it, the more tuned in you have to
get your diet. You have to eat at the right times. You can’t just eat whatever you feel like. You have to eat the right
things at the right time. I just found that out. I was slowing up the last two weeks. Things weren’t moving on me. I
was starting to get flat and I accidentally slipped into ketosis. I wasn’t eating enough carbohydrates. I talked to a
couple of buddies of mine and I increased my complex carbohydrates and oatmeal. I started eating flat bread with all
natural peanut butter and bananas on it and I worked out yesterday and had veins popping out of my shoulders, arms
and legs. Everything was just flying again. It’s a real simple fix but sometimes you don’t see it.
Chuck: You were probably beat down too.
Mike: Yeah, I was exhausted.
Chuck: Diet was the key to your weight loss, what supplements did you take to help you lose weight?
Mike: I use Anafit and MHP.
Chuck: Have you tried the Red Blast product from Anafit, Mike?
Mike: Yeah I like that. It’s good stuff. I got a hold of Larry, [president of Anafit], to see if I could try some other stuff
or if he had any suggestions on how to get the rest of this bodyfat off.
Chuck: Larry is such a great person.
Mike: He would do anything for you.
Chuck: It’s hard to find integrity in people. Larry has that and is an outstanding person.
Mike: A lot of times you meet people and you hit it off right away. Larry is one of those guys. We stay in contact and
shoot the shit. He is a good person.
Chuck: What supplements are you taking from Anafit right now?
Mike: The Glucorell, Sesapure combo and Yohimburn.
Chuck: For me, the Glucorell and Sesapure does the trick the best for fat loss. I have never seen anything like it.
Mike: It is a wonderful combination.
Chuck: How did you meet Larry? [Owner of Anafit]
Mike: Through the IronTrybe board about 6 years ago. He and I shot the shit at Mark and Heather Bossowski’s
wedding. Thank God he was there because I had somebody good to talk to. I talked with him all night, he and his wife
and me and my wife. Larry had Glucorell in his pocket and I was trying to keep my sugar levels down and he was
like, “Here, try this, you can eat carbohydrates again.” I was like Wow! As a powerlifter you are concerned about
eating everything in sight so you can get bigger and stronger and it’s really a bad attitude. I actually did my best squat
when I was 387lbs. That actually gave me the second highest squat all time by formula. I was stronger at 387lbs than I
was at 440lbs.
Chuck: There are people that you will never hear about in powerlifting magazines or strongman stuff, but they are the
strongest people that you have ever seen in your life. You reminded me about Heather Bossowski when you brought
up the wedding with her and Mark. She reminds me a lot of you because she is always changing herself. She also
went from bodybuilding, to powerlifting, to strongwomen and to fitness. She is just a great person too.
Mike: She is a very determined girl. To completely switch over from bodybuilding and then go to powerlifting and
now do fitness…whew! Those are dramatic body changes.
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Chuck: I have seen her in Ironman magazine. She looks unbelievable. She has always looked great.
Mike: She has a really nice physique.
Chuck: You trained Joe Mazza, didn’t you, Mike? He is another great lifter.
Mike: Joe is a stud. He just did 450lbs raw at 165lbs. He is going to kick some ass this year.
Chuck: All you guys at Nazareth Barbell are strong. That is in Pennsylvania right?
Mike: Yep. We have a good support group. It’s a lot of good morale. It really think that makes our gym what it is.
Chuck: How long have you owned it?
Mike: Going on 7 years now. Deb did it with me. She pays the bills and does all the other stuff and kind of lets me
fart around and lift weights.
Chuck: I always go through my life taking lessons from everything that I do good or bad.
Mike: My wife calls them life lessons. That’s a good idea.
Chuck: Can you tell me some of the things you learned from a short list? What have you learned from powerlifting?
Mike: Don’t ever let anything hold you back and tell you that you can’t do something.
Chuck: Bodybuilding?
Mike: Relax. I would say discipline.
Chuck: Wrestling?
Mike: Definitely to relax. Wrestling is a metaphor for my life. It has turned into that. It taught me how to calm down
and be a mellow person because wrestling is all about relaxing, fluidity and movement.
Chuck: Almost like the Chinese speak of the Tao? Flowing water?
Mike: Exactly. I think wrestling is going to teach me the rest of what I need to know for my life.
Chuck: Fatherhood and [Marriage].
Mike: Patience. Everything that goes on in your life doesn’t matter when it comes to that. Your family and your
children are the most important things.
Chuck: Mike, you have several sponsors. Would you like to list them?
Mike: Yes I would, thank you. I would like to thank Larry of Anafit, Emmit Gerard of MHP, Alan at Pro Wrist straps,
Andre at Brutal Inc, Rick Brewer at House of Pain, Inzer Advanced Designs, Affa the Wild Samoan and of course
Deb, my children and my parents.
Chuck: Is there anything else you want to add Mike?
Mike: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this. I really enjoyed it. You are only as strong as what is
standing behind you. You have to have people, you have to have friends and try and enjoy what you do.
Chuck: Mike, I can’t thank you enough. It’s funny, I got a chance to meet Kara and Craig at the Arnold this year, and
they are two of the nicest people, and you are right there with them on that.
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Mike: Thank you man, and I really appreciate it. If you ever need anything, just give me a shout.
Chuck: It goes both ways.
Mike: Thank you brother.
And with that, the interview with Mike was over. Mike gave me almost an hour and a half of his valuable time to do
this. I took the interview too long and felt bad, but I could have talked to him all day. His willingness to give up so
much of his time to do this tells me you all really need to know about this man. I am not a wrestling fan, but I have a
feeling I am going to be going to a match or two in the area when the WWE comes to my town. I will be the short,
bald and stumpy guy in the front row wearing a Rage shirt.
Until next time,
Take Good Care,
Chuck Zurawski
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