The following transcript of Florence Matthews` interview

The following transcript of
Florence Matthews’ interview
on
Memories and Music
(broadcast April 26, 1981)
was created by the Sudbury Public
Library as part of a
Summer Canada Project
in 1982.
1
000
"MEMORIES & MUSIC"
INCO LTD. '
CIGM
SUDBURY ' PUBLIC LIBRARY
(
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..
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
TAPE NO ; 128
INTERVIEWEE: Mrs. Scott Matthews? TRANS. : Raymonde Lafortune
DATE OE TRANS.: JUne 1982
POSITlON: IIc-n"'~?a K;vV
18<;0SUMMER CANADA PROJECT
DATE: A I'/l/ .l
INTERVIEWER: Gary Peck
THEME:
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G.P.
Welcome to the program Mrs. Matthews and I believe you
were born in what, at th~turn of the centurw, just in
the latter part of the.J.ast century? December the 3, 1898
I think you'd mentioned.
S.M.
1898, yes.
G.P.
Ynu were born in Ottawa?
S.M.
In Ottawa yes.
G.P~ ·
And whereabouts in Ottawa?
S.M.
At Duffren Road, I was
",
bo~n
.
right ·at home.
G.P. ' Right, right in the house.
"
S.M.
Right in ' the house.
G.P.
I suspect 'that that was more common practice than it is
today.
S.M.
Yes it· was.
G.P.
You lived near the Governor General's house I
S.M.
Well yes, the Governor General, well it's the company
General's place and then· there's the Rideau Hall, they
all on one land q But where we lived you see, the '
It
~as.
t~ink.
"
MATTHEWS
2
215
. Governor General lived moreL1ike towards Sussex Drive
that was like on ~ the near .the Ottawa River there. But
there was this big land you know what I mean?
G.P.
But you were fairly c l ose to the Governor General's house?
S.M.
Oh ~ ~ If they had garden-partie~ we'd just go up
the fence and
look through.
,
G.P.
You'd look through.
S.M.
Ooh, wonderful.
G.P.
I can imagine.
S.M.
Oh, real wonderful.
G.P.
We'll talk about that in a minute.
was your f ather from?
S.M.
My fatherf~here I told you from around the Austrian border
G.P~
No. But it was somewhere in Austria or Austria-Hungarian
Empire I suspect at that time. But hels German was he
"
you said?
S.M.
Yes he was German.
G.P.
And your maiden name?
S.M.
Was Erdman.
G.P.
S.M.
E-R-D • • •
M-A-N • • • Erdman. "
G.P.
Erdman.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
And what line of work was your dad in?
S.M.
He was ~ boss for the gove;rnment ,iike oh, what dol you
call these you know, that look after like they do here.
G.P.
Supervisors?
~
~here
were you,
.
exactly where now I couldn't tell you.
G.P.
Yes, a kind of a, · a kind of a • • •
That's what brought.
S.M.
For th7fUb1ic, he was boss of the public works.
" S.M~
~re
...
'1
MATTHEWS
3
248
br~~ht
G.P.
Public works and that's what
S.M.
Yes.
G.;P.
Oh I see.
S.Ro
He got that, he worked his way up.
G.P.
What was it like growing up in the neighbourhood where
the Governor Gene~al's house was?
S.R.
G.P.
Oh, i t was .lovely • . Oh, they really were nice.
nice as that is tod~y •
."
No.
.1 \'10'''-
S.M.
Not well ,'i ~times change • • •
G.P.
Sure.
S.M.
But it was lovely though an4fou know there were seven
of us children and we u~~ to go over there with pails,
big pails and get this white l~, vegetable . lard, you
know • • •
No it didn't bring
him,~
him to Ottawa.
got that job in Ottawa.
Not as
,, ~
G.P. . Yes.
S.M.
They use to give Us thato We use to go over lots of times
and we use to play with the kids.
G.P.
Was the lard a luxury?
that easy to come by?
S.M.
Well, well no I don't think it was that but you see they
use to entertain a lot.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
And then they'd have all this, well like a shortening, pure
shortening you know; and then they'd put it in these pails;
and then they'd tell us to come in a week or two weeks or
so.
G.P.
Sure.
S.M.
Oh yes, we played with the... One her name was Ann I know
that but the rest of them I · just forget.
G.P.
We're talking about the Governor General, it's turn of
the century anyhow, eh?
S.M.
Yes, yes.
G.P.
Early 1900s. Did you ever, were you ·e ver in her house,
the Governor General' s residence?
Was it something that was not
You'd play with their children then?
MATTHEWS
l
4
283
S.M.
Well no, not in the main part you know.
G.P.
But you'd get to the entrance and
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
Look in and • • •
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
I can imagine ,for a young girl at that time it would be .
something very special wouldn't it?
S.M.
Well it was, it was nice you know. They were nice in
those days and the children were nice. You know it wasn't
like it is now, now it's one , a bigger fair all the
way around.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
You know what I mean.
did and • • •
G.P:
Then they
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
'hey were part of the neighbourhood.
S.M.
Yes and I have a sister in Ottawa my younger sister; and
she was, she went to church down there; and this Governor
General now Ed i hryer.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
Well he was the same nationality, ' not national but same
religion as what we are. "So he used to send flowers there
and everything; and then they sent him an invitat,i on for
the, some of the women to go; and have an afternoon ~
with Mrs. Shryer. So my sister was there; and she saw
the whole works; and I had a cousin Jack Schroder was
his name; and years ago he was the gardener. He run
the green-houses there. That's what .he did.
G.P.
Oh yes.
S.M.
Where all the flowers, he use, you know, they have
green-houses now too but at that time he was the boss
of the greeR-houses; and they gotta have flowers
ready all the -time for all oceasions you know, the
way it is those big occasions, but it was really nice.
G.P.
I'm sure . I know young children often we never accuse
them of being shy. Were you able to crash the parties
of the Governor ; eneral' s residence, were you able to
•••
Oh yes.
~ere
They entertain more now then they
very close to thepeopll .
"
5
345
MATTHEWS
you know, were the ·children able to get in through
the gate, through ,the fence?
~~
S.M.
No. Well we were able to get in just at the
use to get the shortening you know.. •
G.p.
Right.
S.M.
But to be like Jire the parties were and stuff, oh no.
G.P.
No.
S.M.
No.
G. P.
No.
SmM.
No, ' that's all private you know and it's more private
now.
time~
we
-J
NQ" no.
G.P. O~!es. Then you wouldn't have had t .O worry about the seurity.
l
S.M.
Oh, no.
No.
G.P.
Today it would be • • •
S.M.
They had dogs there but the dogs knew us.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
One brother, my brother Harry and. I, we use to go.
We were always • • •
G.P.
I should think that' would have been a fascinating experience for ya.
S.M.
Oh, it was lovely, it was really nice.
hey were all
so nice those Governor Generals · you kno~, just lovely.
G.P.
Found them very friendly.
S.M.
But they say, my sister said that she don't think that
any<me 70f them can beat the one that" s there now.
G.P.
They really, she thi~s highly of Ed Shrye;?
S.M.
Oh yes, she said, his wife she said, she's so pretty and
they're a lovely, lovely people she said; and they.
They're good to churches ~hey'l l 'E,Pend flowers you . know,
on Sunday morning like, to decorate the church; and things
like that, very nice you know. It's nice to, but in
those ~days t hey use t o have big fe.nces around you know,
like ~ord fence s but, now t hey have iron fences, great
big hJ.gh iron fences.· You can see everything goes on
~
-
MATTHEWS
6
386
before ~
use to go upstairs and
now. You couldn't
look through the windows • • •
G.P.
Oh, you'd look through the windows upstairs. • •
S'.M.
We use to look there , it was nice, oh yes-, it was nice.
G.P.
I'm sure it was. Mrs. Matthews you, you lived in Ottawa
until you were married, You were what twenty, twentyone?
S.M.
Twenty-one I was married.
G.P.
Twenty-one at the time.
S.M.
Well I moved after I was marr ied to Trenton.
G.p.
To Trenton for a while and t hen • • •
S.M.
G.p.
I lived in Trenton for a while • • •
Then back to Ottawa • • •
S.M.
And then back to
G.• P.
Right.
S.M.
Well he finally died ~ter you know. But then I stayed
at home for a while t(~bther wanted me to stay at home
for a while ; so we stayed at home for a while; and then
my son was born; and then we still lived there for about
oh, I guess it was three years after that; and then we
got a place of our own; and then we l i ved there until
we, until .-e was transferr~ up here •
G.P.
What brought you to Capreol?
S.M.
As I told you he was
S.M.
He was transferred with • • •
He -had to come here • • •
G.P.
With the C.N.R • • • •
S.M.
With the C.N.R., yes.
G.P.
The C.N.R. seemed to have brought everyone to Capreol didn't
it?
S.M.
Well at one time yes. Well you know, they go by seniority
you s'e e and the more s eniori.:ty they have the better chance .
at the job.
G.P.
So he was working wit h the C.N.R. in Ottawa?
~ttawa
And you moved Irom there?
because my dad was very ill.
. he..
transfe~red.
I
7
MATTHEWS
428
S.M.
Oh yes.
G.P.
And in Trenton as well?
S.M.
Yes, in the Trenton, yes.
G.P.
You came to Ottawa , 0 to Capreol in 1929, April of 1929?
S.M.
Yeah,1929, yes.
G.P.
.What was Capreol like in 1929?
Sd.
Oh.
G.P.
What was your first impression as you disembarked from
the train?
.. ' . ~
S.M.
Well I was kinda ~~~ ea you see I lived alone for about
two and a half years; and I said to my husband. He .
said: "I'm not bringing you up there. It's not fit
for anybody to live." That's what he told me. Well
I said: "I want to go regardless of i f I gotta live
in the garage." I said because I didn't want to be
alone, you know on my own with my son, he was small
five years old. Well we lived alone. We rented the
house; and it was a big house; and I didn't want it.
"I said: "That's no good." So we moved here in 1929.
When it's totally wet in thatJlat ~ there and
after I got used to it, I lik it.
G.P.
You likJit.
S.M.
And I like it now. I think it's a nice place. It's not
as you know, there's not as much work. People have
changed you know, there's a lot of people live in Sudbury
and they work here, I mean the~ live here and work in
Sud bury.·
ft,,,,..., .r:
fV
)
G.P.
Sure. Well it's, I'm sure the communiy,y has changed
considerably.
S.M.
Oh yes, it is. It was real, it was blooming very very
well he?1e at one time you know.
. G.P.
Well back in 1929, when you came off the tra:.bn"'You had
negative feelingS towards the community I suppose in some
·ways.
Oh yes • .
G.P.
Now did you live in this area, where you live right now
at the corner of Hanna and Coulson? This house at the
corner of Hanna and Couls on.
MATTHEWS
8
474
S.M.
Yes.
Yes.
I didn't always live here.
G.P.
N~.
S.M.
Well I lived downtown before • • •
But did you live -in t his general area?
. G.P.Downtown.
Right across from the Super-Store there.
S.M.
I moved up here.
G.P.
SmM.
Right across from the Super-Store.
.
'G
Yes, in fact Vall and v;to.~tj} ~took my house and I took
this one.
GoP.
I see.
S.M.
No, well this one was built, I tl)ink. I'm not sure now
but Shall Street is just over here, the first street,
well behind Shall, this is the, like in this last
block,. after this block there was nothing but bush.
G.P.
Nothing but bush?
S.M.
No.
G.P.
Where were most of .the homes, were they near the main
street?
S.M.
Oh yes, they were all around; and then a lot across the
track; and then what they call that what they use to call
Norman that's the across the track/wayove~, ' A lot of'
people live1 bhere.
G.P.
What did they call it?
S.M.
Norman ..,iDwnship.
G.p.
Oh, Norman 'iPwnship. '
S.M.
Well it belongs to Capreol now.
G.P.
I see.
.-
Were, were there any houses out here in 1929?
Nothing but bush.
Nothing.
There was nothing.
S.M •
And then there was what th~y have, just across the track
there you know, like there was, we use to always say
across the track · because it was near the sign of the
track you see.
G.P.
Was it lpart of Capreol then?
S.M • . No.
G.P.
No.
It wasn't . •
,1
9
508
. MATTHEWS
Horman~wnship.
S.M.
It was
G.P.
Norman r"wnship.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
And there were a fair number of people living out there?
S.M.
Oh yes, was quite a few people.
belongs to Capreol •• •
/fhw / f?s
But now you see it ·
.-
)Legional government • • •
(
S.M.
ID'sregional government.
G.P.
Right.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P'.
What type of work did your husband do with the C.N.?
S.M.
He was an engineer.
G.P.
An engineer, what's involved with that kind of work?
S.M.
Well to run the
I
engin~'
G.P. ' To run the engines.
'S.M.
See they used, when we ,w ere;.:marrie9.- they '.had steam engines.
G.P.
Yes. The exciting period.
roads •.
S.M.
They were more excitiilg.
G.P.
Right.
S.M.
,
The exciting period of rail-
And t hen when we moved up here, there was quite a few of
us !'omehriueu know, from came from different parts; o4nd .we
, use to be together; and we used to go out in the afternoon sometime; and we'd hear a whistle. Eve~y man had
his own whitsle.
G.P • . Oh, you could tell?
Y
(JU,A..
e..~ ~ ~ ~
r..,,(q,
v-/~ .
., (}
S.M.
Oh yes. My husband had a whistle., Two long and two
short., toot-toot at the endo
G.P.
Right, yes"yes.
S.M.
My brother-in-law had two , two like it blew it twice,
but we had two long ones; and then another woman maybe,
he's have one long . one short one; and qiffer~nt ones;
and when we'd hear the whistle say: "Oh, I gotta go
10
MATTHEWS
540
home my husbandS whistle. \'
G.P.
Oh, I see.
S.M.
Oh, it was exciting.
G.P.
Yes.
S~M.
Oh, yes.
G.P.
It's railroading change quite a bit over the years.
S.M.
Oh yes. And the-,T" men use to be. I don't know. To
me the men were close. Pay-day they'd go down the
street and they'd have a real chat, down the street you
know.
~.P.
They'd socialize.
S.M.
Oh, yes,th~y were. I think at that time the men I don't
know to me they are close now, but they were closer I think
then. They were, oh once a railroad man always a railroad
man., '1 11 K~Q....r u oj, y vv u
Most different than it is now.
.
(.1
G.P.
~.M.
When did your husband retire?
.Be retired in, oh wait a minute now, we moved up here in
1960; and he was three years sick before that, could be
about, ar'ound '56, '57 around that.
G.P. - Alright, I think we'll, we'll break at that point turn
the program over to the music host, when we come back
in a couple of minutes, we'll continue our conversation.
(MUSIC)
G.P.
Our guest today on Memories & Music is Mrs. Scott Matthews,
a resident of Capre01 S1nce 1929. Mrs. Matthews could you
tell us a li~~e . bit ,about where the core of the community
was in 1929 ."", bvJAoJJhe stores.
,
S.M.
Well, well the s t ores, ~eFe were some stores downtown
right near the station there, the end ' of Younge Street.
And there was one big store there by the name of Bertrand.
I think there was two or three brothers,now I'm not sure
but I think there was; and it was quite a big store; and
we use to gO; s'and deal there; \ and all the railroad men
use to go and deal t~ere.
G.P.
This store was close to the station?
S.M.
Yes. Right at the end of the, like, the station' s down
in this building was right way, where Frank and MB89Uka~ ~
Furniture ,is now.
/HA~~K(J.. :s
r
0'. pf8 1(L.
r
.'
11
MATTHEWS
$02
G.P.
Oh, it's in that, that block • • •
S.M.
Way down • • •
G.P.
Where MaSookas ~iture, I see.
1111/." u i't:t IS •
And t hen we, they, we use to run a bill like, every two
weeks, that was the style in them days, here anyway.
S.M.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
And then you'd go on pay-day and you'd pay your bill;
and then whatever clerk was looking after you • . Well
you've got maybe oranges, candy, everything goodies; and
that was a gift.
G.P.
When you paid your bill off after two weeks they would
give you something in return.
S.M.
Yes. Oranges, or apples, or candies, or anything like that.
A treat you know, really a treat; and it was nice; and
you'd met a lot of people there, to have a chat, you
know;, and • • •
G.P.
It was a good business practice too.
S.M.
Oh it was a good business, yes. It was a good business.
And then there was a small hardware store there, and then
he got bigger and bigger as time went on; and then he
moved to Sudbury.
G.P.
I see. '
S.M.
The hardware store.
G.P.
Talking about Bertrand's for a ' moment,what type of
items would you buy in there, l wks it a general sto~e?
S.M.
A general store.
G.P.
You buy clothes in there?
S.M.
Yes, you couid buy shoes or anJ[thing.
s""ore.
G.P.
Alright. You would, you would be concerned of course
about putting the food on the table. How would one buy,
in, what would be the nature of the food that .ou would
buy? You'd buy everything in bulk would you not ~· at · that
time? Or everything would come into the store in bulk,
You didn't have pre-paekaged items lik~ we do today.
S.M.
Oh no.
G.P.
Sugar for exampl e , you ' d buy in • • •
".
No.
Anything.
No.
It's a ~ ~ h /q
I
"
12
834
MATTHEWS .
S.M.
No.
You'd get it weighted.
G.P. , You'd1get it weighted yes.
S.M.
You'd get
G.P.
One of the main features of those stores would be the
large -scales that they had.
S.M.
Yes, Jes, yes, oh yes.
G.P.
Cookies, were they • • •
s.M.
~hey would come by the pound • • •
GJP.
They would come in freights
S.M.
We use to have the great big you know, shells like and
they were in gr ~ at big tin boxes like • • •
G.P.
Tin canisters.
S.M.
And all kinds of cookies and you'd go and pick, you'd ~
say: "Well I want a . pound, or two pounds, or three pounds."
And then they'd give you whatever you want. Just the
kind of cookie that you ~bi~ yond like you know, well
you could take it.
t'h~h t.
G.P.
Right.
a cow?
S.M.
Oh yes.
G.P.
No.
S.M.
No.
i~eighted.
)
o~
boxes'
Would you buy your milk there or would you have
Oh yes.
Oh no, no cows,
no ~
G.P. ' We're getting a little modern then.
a~ross the track over Norman~wnship have
S.M.
Some peopl.
cows.
G.P.
They had cows •
S.M.
Not~ many though.
G.P.
What were the dairies in this area at the time?
recall?
S.M.
No, I don't recall.
G.P.
No.
.
~"'t~
Do you
13 -
MATTHEWS
858
S.M.
OhI
, think it .was,
. I t hi nK it's the one that's still
here: Palm Da1r1es.
G.P.
Palm Dairies. I think there were a couple of e~ly
Capreol dairies in this area.
S.M.
There was but I Lj ust forget them, it was so long.
G.P.
No. But then you would buy your milk at the store' and
virtually anything you wanted.
S.M.
Oh, everything.
they had.
G.P.
You mentioned there was a hardware store there as well.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
What, do you recall thei r name?
S.M •
Beaufin, Beaufin ' was their name.
G.P.
And ta,y moved into Sudbury?
.J'P. -
. ·S.M.
Everything, they had anything you wanted
,
Yes, they, well they were here quite ,a long time until
~ wasn't too well.
So they moved too Sudbury.
he;.
G.P.
What were some of the
otherstores ~ dowtown.
,
IYlIJZ ui(a..
S.M.
Oh, well there, then later on the Maseeka Store you know,
where the I.G.A. is, but' that was on a very small scale~
then.
G.P.
What did they _start off as?
S.M. , Oh, they started off with everything.
G.P.
Everything.
S.M.
Yes. I remember when Francky was about fourteen years,
well about, I'd say twelve to fourteen between : thW'e , -c:ld
he use' to dish out ice-cream, maka banana-splits. I
still have the dish. I will show it to ya. That he
gave ,me. He use to make the • • • Oh, they done
everything.
'
G.P.
They were,
·S.M.
~hey
wer e involved in a • • •
They were involved in everythi ng. He Mr.
to do, shoes, big shoes, yellow ones • • •
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
This was a good
~bing.
Mazuk~ ' use
rd
14
MATTHEWS
G.P.
-883
Certainly there weuld be a demand fer that.
S.M. , Yes, eh yes. They were nice peeple we get te be quite
friendly with them , they lived acress the read ~em us
yeu knew •• ' .
G.P.
Right.
S,.M.
And -they were very nice they were very nice people. A
let of people yeu know, they didn't mix tee much at that '
time. Well they, when Mrs. MaxukV~ e a ceuple .of
years after him, she ceuldn't talK English tee geed
you knew~ But she get aleng fine in ne time. Ne t
time at ' all.
'
G.P.
Were there any restaurants in the cemmunity?
. S.M,·
Oh, I just ferget abeut the restaurants, I never • • •
G ,- P ~
Ju'st ferget. ,
I never fraternized.
Bask fnr tne . '30s weuldn't be like teday, when we • • •
"6;. lvi.,
~.
I.
'j
S.M.
Ne,.
G'. F.
We _had a: tendency te ' ge .out te MacD0nalds • • •
Ne, eh ne, • • •
Or Harveys, .or whatever.
Oh ne, I den't think ••
; P'
G.P.Yeu ceoked yeur meals at heme.
S.M
.
G:·.~.
.
.
,-
G.·P.
<
•
I den't remember.
..
Ne, yeu weuld have ne , eccasien te
\/
( ~~ '
) .of ceurse.
Ne den't ,even remember, ne, ne, den't even remember •
Did yeu frequent the theater in the cemmunity?
-e
S.• M.
Oh yes, I was a friend .of the weman, Mrs. Bilsbur,
their name was Bilsbur, they run ,the theater, they
just seld it here as I teld,yeu befere, a few years
age. I den't knew hew many but it was a nice theater.
It was big yeu knew fer the size .of the tewn. But they
were beth getting, they're getting elder 'now. Se they
decided , abeut three .or feur years ago te seel it. Se
they seld it.,
G'.P.
When yeu leek back on the histery .of this cemmunity .of
ceurse s eme .of the changes that have .occurred have been
15
lIATTHEWS
914
\
in terms of population; and the expansion of the
community itself • • •
S.M.
Oh yes.
G.P.
Was it a community that was ever susceptible to floods,
you know flooding, were there ever major problems like
that?
S.M.
Well there was down on Ruffis Street you know, • • •
....
G.P.
!{own • • •
S.M.
From the, from the river down there.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
It used to, the water used to run right into the basements.
Oh they usedto have a lot of troubl e well they still
have once in a while here. ~ut they have machines now
that they pump the water out of the basements now I .
believe.
\
G.P.
Oh yes.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
The King was here in 1939.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
Did you see , the King and
And the Queen.
Que~n
•••
S.M. , King George, King George • • •
G.P.
At the time?
'S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
Did you see them?
S.M.
Yes. The people that used to live ac~oss the road over
there in that house, right over there, they she gave
birth to twins. A Dorris and Dorothia , thei r name .
was searched.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
And the queen held those two little twins in her arms.
G.P.
Is that right?
S.M.
Yeah.
MATTHEWS .
16
935
"
~~
G.P.
How old were they
S.M.
They were just babies. _
G.P.
Just, just babies • • •
S.M.
Babies, yes. '
G.P.
You saw the king and queen when they came
S.M.
Yes, oh yes.
G.P.
~
S.M.
Well, there was so many people down at the station you
know • • •
G,iP.
I know.
the t ime?
through~
would, describe that experience. _
S.M.
But :s be, the Mother, like the Mother Queen you know • • •
,
G.P. /' Queen Mother, yes.
~£4(1 '
S.M.
G.P
Queen Mother, oh 'my she was lovely. She was j ust lovely. ,
Bu't it was, it was hard to get too close to . them '. • •
because there
I'm sure.
S.M.
Becallse there were so many people there, you know. But
he was a nice looking man too, ve~ nice looking .an.
But the~ wer~ they weren't ip a hurry. They we~e so nice
to talk to people you know, especially the Queeifs Mother.
She was taken up with the twins you know. Oh 'it was
lovely. It was really lovely.
G.P.
It would be a good feeling to be in the community and -l-o
realise that they weren' t necessarily in a great hurry
to move on to , Sudbur,,~~t. ~~ y
S.M.
No, no.
G.P. ~~ey would spend some time here.
l
S.M.
And across the road over here, there was a ge~tlemen
there, Mr. Tye. He was an engineer and at that time he
didn't~ he has a grands on, well he lives 0 5 2 there
now. ~ut he use to like my son.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
And he was anti engineer; and he went to Folliet on the
engine; and when ,they got to Folliet, he wrote a lettel';
and he went up there before you , see; and brought th&s
17
MATTHEWS
962
"
train back here; and th~re was a letter on there for
my son. So because he was collecting different letters
like .that you know.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
So he Bent him a couple of letters like on that trip
you know a different trip, just two~eek out.
G.P.
I've talked
of the King
experiences
never would
S.M. Yes,
to some people who view the arrival here
and ·Queen as one of the more memorable
in their life. It was an experience they
have missed.
no, ~ oh
it wa s lovely • • •
l..Jov /cJ
~~
G.P • .~ that ~ feeling as well?
•
S.M.
Yes, it was lovely. And they were both so nice.
they were young at that time too you know.
G.P.
Sure. .
S.M.
They werent'£ old.
G.P .
What changes occurred in Capreo1 prior to .t heir arriva1~
There was, was there any attempt to at least I assume
many 'c ommunities would try to make sure ever ything was
painted and spic and span; and • • •
S.M.
Oh, I just don't know.
G.P.
NO • . I suspect that, that probably occurred.
S.M.
Oh, more than likely you know.
G.P.
So they arrived by train and then was there a procession
through Capreo1?
SwM.
Well they had like the girl guides and boy scouts I suppose; and things like that • • •
G.P.
There would
S.M.
Oh yes, they have a parade and legion and all that I guess,
like th~ usual you know. But they would stop quite a
while and then they went on. But it was lovely. I've got
a picture of the, the train.
.
G.P.
Do you?
S.Mo
Yes.
G.P.
I would imagine, many many homes in Capreo1.
..
b ~a
Well
band or a parade?
They probably
MATTHEWS
18
991
have pictures of· that arrival of the King and Queen,
don't -they. You know people have saved it over the:'
years.
D;#q
S.M.
.·
14
Well this, I haven't got
.. · picture of the
G.P.
Then.
.
d-
",, ;ut I '"
P" ~
•
•
S.M • . ~ got a p~cture -of the engine.
G.P.
Of the engine itself ":
S.M.
Of the train itself.
G.P.
I'll have to look at that ina few moments.
S.M-
Yes.
G.P.
When you look back on the your time that you've had in
Capreol, a number of years, would you, view that as
probably one pf t he highlights of, you know the history
of the community?
S.M.
Oh yes. ,I think so. Oh yes. Defintely. Oh yes.
At one time there was a fire here. Of course as I told
you tnenet s ebttshhand everything here you know; and
then the C.N.R. The C.N.R. gave orders that everybody
could just get belongings, put them in the suitcase
because the w~nd was blowing in a certain way, like
with the fire you know.
G.P.
The C.N.R. gave orders to move out?
S.M.
To move out and the wind changed. , So then the orders
came it was alright. We were safe.
G.P.
Where was the fire?
S.M
Around here.
G.P.
Around in this area, ·where you're living now?
S.M.
Yes, around in this area, yeah.
G.P.
Had~there
S.M·
Well, nO not that i recall.
G.P.
No,~~hat you recall.
S.M.
fell there was a, big fir e when I lived down Youn~Street
t 'here ~ The United Church, I live right next,- door to the
church and my son was going to work; and he saw the
That they were running on.
(.
ones?
k
.
been any major fires in the community?
Major
.
19
MATTHEWS
020
,I
basement it was on fire; and the whole church burnt
down.
G.P.
I imagine capreofSha' it's share of fires, well. the
one recent one of course,· with the fire hall I thi~.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
Like any communit y has had it's share • • •
S.M.
Yes,oh yes • • •
G.P.
When you think. at the turn of the century some communities
were absolutely eliminated because of fires • • •
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
And Capreol I gather did not experience that kind of
devastating • • •
S.M.
No, no, no.
G.P.
Fire in its early history. Any Qth~r fond recollections
when you think back from 1929 on~ Buring the Depression
what was it like for people in the community?
S.M.
Well I have some friends here that they were engineers
their husbands. But they had saved some money and if
you had any money at all, well you couldn't get relief •
G~P.
. No.
S.M.
At that time you know.
G.P.
But we don't view the Depressio of course as a time of
fond memories but it probably brQught out some extraordinary chara~teristics in certain people, in terms of
generosity I imagine.
SoMe
Oh yes.
G.P.
You know. Talking to people I understand that many
people would provide hand-outs, would be very generous • • •
S.~.
Oh yes, people would • • •
G.P.
Those who had 'would share.
S.M.
And another thing you know~ years ago, well first, a
couple of years after I moved here, when Christlla s
time would come around, well you'a have all, all the
friends. They really would have to be friends and you
could go out at Christams Eve. and go into anybodys home
\
.'
MATTHEWS
20
048
and there was always a lot to eat. But you see now times
have changed. You don't do t~~You've gotta phone.
To you know, let people know~ you're coming. But , in
them days well I don't know it was different. I liked
it the way it was then.
G.P.
It was a closer knit • • •
S.M.
A closer mit • • •
G.P.
Community.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
You · knew the people didn't you?
S.M.
No matter what you had, everybody liked it and everybody
was happy. People, people were nice, well people change
now. A lot of people 1iving .here .that I don't know at
all. And at one time years ago you'd know everybody.
~.P.
You knew everybody along the street.
S.M.
Ie
Even now you go tb the stores, the Mazuka ' store the _
grocery store; and you don't, you met people but you
don't know them; and then years ago well you knew
everybody.
G.P.
Times very definitely have changed then, would you say?
S.M.
Oh yes. I even now you know, you take the children to the
rink there; and "everybody if they didn~t have any children
well you'd take the children maybe on your grms and
skate around with them a ~oup1e of times. ~ut then
afte~ you'd put them down, they'd . ba11 their head off.
They~ want to go on again.
~ey were cute yo~ know.
Oh, I don't tnow it was nice; and then~ we have the curling rink. We use to go curl on our,()'rea1 ice, natural
ice.
..
G.P.
I think we'll take a break now and when we come back
maybe we can talk about entertainment in the community
and what people did during their relaxation moments.
(MUSIC)
G.P.
Mrs. Scott Matthews is our guest today on Memories & M~sic.
Mrs. Matthews youJlre eighty-two years of age. You've
notiCed many many changes over the years. When you look
back comparing the, well just comparing society in 1981 .
with society back in the twenties or thirties. What
are some of the major changes that come to mind, in terms
af attitudes of peop1e~ How are people different?
21
MATTHEWS
153
S.M.
Well they' r e they seem to be different. T~y, years
ago, you know, everybody was everybody's friend. But
not now. I don't think so. Now if they go they have
thei r own bunch, that goes t~gethe:" you s.ee.
G.P.
Small, yes.
S.M.
Yes, like a, like a • • •
G.P.
Like a clique •.
S.M.
Like a clique, yes.
G.P.
Right.
S.M.
Even the women of today.
G.P.
Yes I'm sure.
S.M.
When we were, you kn9w we'd have afternoon tea and stuff
like that. But now more so, not so freely as it used to
be. We used to have ~<;. like the engineer use to have
big dances and parties, and pension partii s and everything, ·
and what they use to call the Gimber Hall ? amd we use to
go there; and everybQdy was there, it was a big hall.
And they'd have cards, they dance and then they'd have
a lunch; and, and oh, there was lots and lOBS of doings
here, at that time.
G.P.
You grew; you experienced the ~epression. -, People today
comment that the times are tough. But you've been through
the Depression what do you think of that comment? Are
times tough today, in certain ways pr9bably •• -.
Well we use to have a clique too.
S.M • . Well I think they're tougher with money, you know.
-G.P.
In what way?
S.M.
They get money but they buy a lot and they have beautiful
homes .
G.P.
oHr expectations are too high.
S.M.
Oh, well that could be it too, you know.
G.P.
Right.
S.M.
Young people they like things ni ce you know? And well we,
if you like things nice; and you can get them, okay.
G P
Right.
• •
S.M.
We want too much, today.
At least' I assume that's what you were suggesting.
Get them. But if you go down too deep and the Depression
comes well then, you're, you're • • •
MATTHEWS
(
22
189
G.P.
You're in trouble.
S.M.
You're in trouble.
G.P.
Today thearedit card is
lot of people have them.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
I would imagine you never would have expected that back
in the thirties. That we'd be in a day of instant credit.
S.M.
Oh no, I haven't even a credit card now.
G.P.
No. And why would that be? Because you, you hadn't been
brought up that way I "Suppose?
S.M.
I suppose more than likely you knoi-?
G.P.
Was it something you completely avoided to buy on credit?
You would try to ~eep away from that I assume, you would
have tried to.
S.M.
Well I never, I never even gave it a tought of buying on
credit you know.
G.P.
No, no.
S.M.
I've never bought on credit 'in my life.
G.P.
No.
S.M.
Never •
G.P
If you bought a car you saved for it.
.
#-" .
.
handy thing to have and a
~
More than likely.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
And when you had the money , you bought the car.
S.M.
Yes.
G.p.
When you went to buy
S.M.
Well yes, as I told you we had the eighteen hundred dollars
and he wanted two-thousand. We offered him the eighteen hundred and he took it. So we started from scratch.
G.P.
Because you • • •
S.M.
So we lived in it for a few years~and then the Depression
was still on.
G.P.
Right.
~ouse
you'd save for it.
23
MATTHEWS
210
<'
S.M.
And we got, there was three brothers; and they fixed' the
house uij(or us downtown; and that didn't cost us too much
you know, at that time.
.
G.P.
So you were saying you had eighteen hundred dollars cash?
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
And that's
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
You would not go into debt for two hundred dollars,
S.M.
No, Sir! No, and we weren't the only ones there was more
more • • •
G.P.
Many, many people would not do that.
S.M.
Many more, many more.
~
Must have been hard for the banks to get along in some
cases.
you would pay for the house.'2
S.M.
My brother-in-law, my husband's brother lived on Youn~
Street, but on the other side of us. Well ~hey were
Ii viilg in a couple of rooms; ,;and they bought this little
house the same style as what ours was; and they bought
it for eight hundred dollars. They got a better house
for eight hundred and we paid eighteen hundred.
G.P.
But . they paid cash
S.M.
But then there was, oh yes. 6h yes. Oh yes o They were
.all our friends they wouldn't buy anything unless they had
the cash, in them days.
I.:;.
r
.p.
~ll
~
fortheir~oo,
G.P.
I suppose you're concerned about the trend that is taki ng
place in society today then? You know about buying on
credit. Ther e's a danger involved with that, isn't ~?
~s you're suggesting.
L7~
S.M.
~ell
G.P.
You were suggesting if a Depression came along then
problems could occur.
S.M.
Oh, it
G..P.
No, no.
S.M..
I pope there's no more depressions come.
. G.P.
S.M
•
..
I, I haven't anybody really to • • •
woul~e
bad, I imagine.
I hope not.
No •
But people gotta have homes to live, what can
yo~o?
24
MATTHEWS
r
237
G.P.
Oh, certainly, certainly.
S.M.
They gotta have homes to live.
G.P.
But when you bought, when you lived in a house there are
certain things that you would necessarily not have , had
including running water,
S.M.
No, we had the well.
G.P.
Yes, you would have tbe well and • • •
~.M.
W@ had the pump.
G.P.
Right.
And you may not have had indoor plumbing, etc ••
S.M. No, no indoor plumbing, no.
G.P
!
No.
And these are things that you would, you would • • •
S.M.
We use to do things just a little at a time, you seef?
G.P.
( ~7 )
iJ
At a time yes •
• M.
at a time.
G.P.
You would acquire over a period of time.
S.M.
Yes, yes, oh yes. It was ,like, they, well practically
everybody was the same in those days here you know , • • •
G.P.
That was the standard view of that
of time • • •
S.M.
Yes, of thakparticular time you know. Because some fellows
were laid off you see; and as I told you they had a little
money saved. Well they didn't, if you had a little
bit well you'd have to use it because, there were so
many other work at that time, that they • • •
G.P.
Another interesting observation that one can make
about society in the '80s and '70s is the fact that
more and more women, are enteri ng the labor market.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
Then they ever did before. Why did they not in the past?
Why did, 'we'll talk ,about you for example, you, you did
not go out and ~ seek a job. Why didn't women at that time?
S.M.
Well, at that time t he old fashion way was if you were
married and had children, your place was in the home.
But now they have children and they can' manage children;
and, they can manage a job you see.
particular~
-
period
25
MATTHEWS
G.P
.
S.M.
'2 68
The attitudes have changed haven't they?
oR,
yes the attitudes have changed.
has changed so much now.
The way you live
G.P. , Looking back woul d you have welcomed the opportunity
perhaps you know, of haYing gone out and worked on
occasion. Do you think you missed something by that?
S.M.
Well, no.
G.P.
No, you don't.
S.M.
No, I didn't miss anything.
G.P.
No.
S.M.
Oh no, no, no.
G.p.
That's a tremendous attitude I think1~Jhen you look back
and you feel you don't have any regrets, and that's good.
S.M.
No, oh no.
G.P
No.
S.M.
No, even now I don't go out. If I want something. I'll
wait till I got the money to buy it. Still ~ike that.
. G.P.
Still •
S.M.
My parents were like that.
G.p..
Yes.
S.M.
You see.
G.P.
And all those older relatives who have those attitudes
as well and • • •
S.M.
Yes, my parents were like tha~ you see; and my parents
we had two homes; and my, after my dad died well then,
my dad in '19l6 he built a beautiful home, well the boys
helped; and those days all the men would come;and help.
They don't do that now. Some of them do.
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
But not too many.
Of course • • •
. .
.
G.p. ' But t hey would come together
S.M.
J;-n7t!u,
&M( .
'.,t
r O.....¥'l"l
.)~.AJ
'I -
But that house didn ' t cost them too much money; and then
after my mother died well the. one big home, it went to .
two boys, t he o her .. ellow got a car and stuff; and my
26
295
MA1THEWS
sister and myself; and my other brother well we got
some money from home you see. But that , home, my, then
t he two brothers lived together; and then they rented
half of it. They turned it into a like a double hORs e. /
This great big home you know. And then they sold it~ ~
1$ey sold it for twenty-thousand dollars; and they sold
it last week, the fellow that bought it, bought it for
twenty-thousand; and he sold it last week a hundred and
fifteen thousand.
G.p.
Amazing how, what has happened isn't it?
S.M.
He was transferred to Halifax, Nova-§cotia, he was a
great demand for the water you know, they had boats and
everything.
G.P •
Right •
.
So they had, they both got a wonderful job there,. She
teaches in the big University there and he has 6,ome big
job with the corporatiDn. So they weren't goi ng to
come back to Ottawa'. So they sold it. I don't ' know,
my sister didn't know who bought it. But she says, she
set the sola for a hundred and fifteen thousand.
II
S.M •
G.P.
When, when people graduated from school back in the '20s,
ano I know to graduate from school often meant, grade
eight for example • • •
'
,
S.M.
Yea.
G.P.
If not earlier. , ~ere they prepared for society?
S.M. ' Well I, I graduated you see and I went right to
I was thirteen and a half.
G.P.
You graduated from grade • • •
S.M.
I went to a private SCh001.
G.P.
A private school.
S.M.
And I graduated from the last • • •
G.P.
From our equivalent of grade • • •
S.M.
Grade yes, yes.
G.P.
And you went
d ;,,,,1:"
S.M. ~ to work.
G.p.
r
You
work)~
right ~o work.
didn' ~ave
ever got
a chan~ e
the opportunity.
to go to high-school.
27
MATTHEWS
328
S.M.
No, didn't have the · opportuni ty to go • • •
G.P.
Economics, often was one of the big factors • • •
S.M.
Well that was one yes .•
G.P.
I've talked to so many people who, who feel that they,
well that they missed something by not having that
opportunity.
S.M • . Yes.
G.P.
I don't know whether you feel you, you've mi ssed anything
or not, but I do know you did, probably didn't have a
choi ce as you were saying • • •
S.M.
No,no.
G.P.
You just had to go to work.
We didn't have.
None of us children ,. (coughing )--excuse me--none of us
had a choice. Just my younger sister, she went to, to
high-school; and different places you know; and she's
well educated; and she had a job in the government for
a while.
G.P.
It's often been said t hat people Or thAt peri od of time
"and earlier were very resourcefull people. They could
often make due with very little: and they were very handy
with their hands; and you know, could get out of problems without having to hire people. Bo you think that's
a fair reflection, or comment on those people?
S.M.
Well • • •
G.P.
~ou
.S.M.
Well myself you know, now I could sit down and take your
clothes and pull them all apart and then I could • • •
G.P.
Put them back ·together.
S.M.
Put them back together or change them around .
G•.p.
Yes.
S.M.
See I could do that.
G.P.
You have that skill.
S.M.
Because I had all that training in the, in the tailoring
deparment · .
G.P.
Right, right.
know they were very handy people.
28
MATTHEWS
352
S.M.
You see? Oh and th~n I could do fancy work. I could,
one t~ing I couldn't do in my life was crochet.
G.P.
No.
S.M.
But I kBit and I did everything.
G.P.
Ri ght. Now many of those skills were th&ught in the . home
were they not? The mother would teach some of those
skills.
S.M.
Yes, oh yes.
G.P.
You know the young girls when they were growing up they
had to learn those skills.
S.M.
Oh yes.
G.P
Yes.
S.M.
G.P.
Well my mother taught us how to make comforters.
, ~~~ would need them?
Sure~ weu would need them?
S.M •
Yes.
. G.P~
r
\.
Like at home
e.
•
•
~~~
And the boys?
They would • • •
S.M~
They went out to work.
G.P.
They went out to work and they would have to, they would
learn carpentry from their dad and • • •
S.M·
Well I had • • •
G.p.
Various skills.
S .. M.
My youngest brother was a pril1ter. My oldest brother was
a printer. My other b:eot1:).~r was a manger in a great big
department storel andthet'fwther one he was plumber, a
(~ .
) plumber. He worked for the government
for years, till he was pensioned off. They all had good
. mo~ey j obs after you know.
G.p.
Ri~ht.
S.M.
Everyone of them, good money.
G.P.
After a period of time2
S.M.
Yes.
G.P
Yes~
S.M.
After 'they . got older •..
29
MATTHEWS
G.P.
371
Right. I think we'll break at this point and we'll come
back we'll wrap up the program.
(MUSIC)
G.P.
On Memories & Music today our guest has been Mrs. Scott
Matthews a resident of Capreol, born in 1898, resident
of this community since 1929. I think we've been talking
about a number of fascinating aspects of Capreol's history. But let's look at the lighter side for a moment
and talk about a little social history. What did one
do ~ their leisure time~, How important was sports in
your life and sports in the life o ~~ eople in general.
S.M.
Well tq me I loved sports, anykind of sports, anykind at
all. I use to curl. I use to skate , played broom-ball;
and baseball -as the children.
Baseball.
ball?
IJ
Howowould you have been when
Ir-Y
youvplay~aSe-
S.M.
How old?
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
Well maybe, maybe in my late forties.
G.P.
Late forties.
S.M.
Oh •
G.P.
S.M.
Womes would be • • •
Well there was more than one.
G.P.
There' d be a number?
S.M.
Oh yeah, a couple anyway, oh yeah.
MacDonald in ~udbury?
G.P.
Mmhh • • •
S.M.
Well I played, ball with her , here, she used to live here
yee.:s ago. r/' t--h f <?4 I( ) ~.
G.P.
Well .
S.M.
And then we used to go to the rink up her~and skate you
know; and we use to have a lot of carnivals; and you'd
dress up for carnivals; and you'd put any old thing on;
and go out there; and win a prize. You'd do anything .
G.P.
Anykind of a costume.
S.M.
I use to rac e .
•
.,.
There would be a girls team out here?
Did you know Barbara
JlATTHEWS
30
482
G.P.
Yes.
S.M.
And there was two or t hree other women here us ed to race.
But there weren't too many race. But I use to race; and
once I, I ,laughed one time we were racing it was Mrs.,
there was a Mrs. MacDonald here; and her not- Barbara,
not , the Mrs. MacDonald, her and I, they had a big roasting
pan; and then they had six little fruit knives you kz?ow;
and this Miss MacDonald said to me, she says, well they
use to call me Scottie, and she'd say: "Oh SC0ttie,"
she says, "I ,d on't want them knives." She says. And they' re
first she says. I says: "Well, okay,' I says: "If
I win first I'll trade and ,if you win first you trade. ".
So she won ~irst. So we traded. She took the bi~ roas ting
pan; and I took the knives.
G.P.
Took the knives.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
But there was, there~were no lack of
entertainment at all ~
S.M.
Oh no, it was lovely; and we used, after we got older you
see here. We went, we had quite a few curling, people
curling and different teams you know. I use to go out
and bounce the never Mr. Bouncefield, we' d : go allover
on Bouncefield • '. •
G.P.
Everywhere.
S.M.
Yes, everywhere. Yes everywhere and the men they'd stay at
home and do their own cooking; and there'd we go.
G.p.
Oh, I see, you were out travelling around; and while you
were travelling aronnd • • •
S.M.
Oh yeah, and we had a lovely time.
G.P.
~d the men would be at home taking care of the house.
S.M.
Oh yes.
G.p.
Now there's quite a switch.
S.M.
Get , get all the women together.
G.P.
Sure.
S.M.
It was, there was good pri zes, I got quite a few prizes .
I could show you them when, I got a lot of cups in the
cellar all , black 'from, I j ust leave them down there.
G.P.' Sure.
!.
opportunitie~
for
You know what I mean?
MATTHEWS
S.M.
31
'5 11
But they were, there was a lot of good curlers in women.
G.P • . And you were the exeeption in terms of liking sports, or
enjoying sports, there were many who were involved in
the community.
.
S.M.
Oh yes. There was a lot of women liked sports. There
still are a lot that like sports. Oh yes, that was, and
it was friendly sports you know. You'd ' go out and curl '
and it was friendly.
,,(
G.P.
Oh it was a social evening wag~ it?
S.M.
I t ·!,was a social • • •
(END OF T~E)
-
(End of side I continued on side II)
G.P.
MMhh…
S. M.
It was a social, and we laugh now now they pay 12 dollars apiece for curling, in them days we
paid a dollar. 50 cents.
G.P.
And had just as much fun if not more.
S.M.
Just as much fun, lots of fun…
G.P.
Right. Well times indeed have changed…
S.M.
Oh yes.
G.P.
As you mentioned.
S.M.
Well you’ve got to keep up with the times.
G.P.
That’s right.
S.M.
Yes.
G.P.
And I’m sure you have.
S.M.
Oh yes I try.
G.P.
You have, everyone has to don’t they?
S.M.
I belong to the senior citizens now and we have a club room up there, all upstairs on top of
Municipal Hall.
G.P.
Right.
S.M.
And we have card parties there, bridge parties, and things…potluck suppers, dances, real good
time.
G.P.
Well…
S.M.
And some of them there are in their eighties like myself and their raring to go.
G.P.
Mmhh. Well I think the comment that, that I remember from this interview is the fact that you
have no regrets when you look back.
S.M.
Oh no.
G.P.
No, none at all.
S.M.
No, no.
G.P.
No, you have, you have a glint in your eye as you’re reviewing the history and I sense you’ve
enjoyed…
S.M.
And I had a wonderful…
G.P.
…enjoyed your life.
S.M.
…wonderful wonderful husband. Oh my husband was a wonderful man.
G.P.
I think you’ve had an ideal life, very definitely.
S.M.
I really did.
G.P.
And still enjoying it.
S.M.
And I’ve got a wonderful wonderful son.
G.P.
Good. I think on that, on that note we’ll, we’ll conclude our program and Mrs. Matthews on
behalf of Memories & Music thank you for sharing conservation with us. I’ve definitely
appreciated your frank comments about society in the 80s and society earlier and I think that
your comments have been most refreshing. So thank you very much.
S.M.
I hope they were satisfying to you.
G.P.
Oh they definitely are. I’m sure our listening audience will enjoy this interview.
S.M.
I really enjoyed it.
G.P.
Thank you.
(END OF TAPE)