h?iirr - JohnnyMarrvellous.com

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A SUMMIT
ipeting between Messrs
LECTRONIC,
Indie Guitar and
lndie
Synthesizer. where ex-Smiths
ti meets New Order uberfuhrer. The
Johnny Marr and Bernard Sumner
lder "Madchester" statespersons at 27 and 34
-
6ve come to call home.
,. "I'd always thought of Johnny as this stuck up litlle twat who lived in Altrincham," muses New
Order's enigmatic ftontmao.
"And I'd always knowo that Bernard was this postindustdal doom merchant who wore jackboots,"
rectlls the world's mo6t popular freelance guitarist.
*The Smiths, for me," says Sumrcr, "were doing
, . something that I didn't think was going to happen
again, They were a fresh rock band. I thought every
_,,. .gOgLr,lasuuif${h'rd-had beei scraped out. Then
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HE INITIAL ELECTRONIC CON-
nections were made as long
ago as 1983, when Sumner
summoned Marr to contribute to two tracks - Love
Tempo and Atom Rock - by the extravagantly unknown Manchester band
Quando Quango.
"Beftard was actually lying on the floor when
I first met him," recalls Mar. "He'd been up all
night. Things don't change much. I remember at
the time he was surprised that I had a knowledge
ofNew York dance music and I was surprised that
he knew about early Rolling Stones singles and
Neil Young album tracks."
After the legendary Quango sessions, both
musicians went their separate ways: one to
explore white dance music, the other to provide a
soundtrack for the flower-festooned limb-flail we
cametocallMorrissey.Duringtheeventfulseven
years that passed, both graduated from skinny,
whey-faced contenders to champions of '80s
English pop. By the time they met again, they
were important- and distinctly fuller- figures.
"It was in San Francisco in '88." rememben
Marr. "New Order were on tour with Echo And
The Bunnymen and I'd heard that Bernard was
making this solo album and he'd like me to play a
bil ofguitar. See. Manchester isa very small musical community and what people don't realise is
that The Smiths and New Order virtually always
used the same road crew. But I went to San
Francisco and that was the first timewe discussed
it proper."
"l had been working on my own in New
Order's rehearsal room," shudders Bernard. "It
has this huge graveyard out the back and I was
sleeping on the floor and it all got a bit much for
me, let's put it that way. "
It was agreed that the project would be electronic in more than just name. Dance music had
become a consuming passion in the Mancunians'
lives. Both had fallen for the frugsome charm of
the pre-acid house Italian import disco singles
("There was one brilliant one called Take A
Chance, Mr Flaggio," laughs Sumner, "and this
other one called You Aren't Fall In l,ove. They
were like Ealing Comedies") although, they
admit, dance music wasn't something that had
come tothem naturally.
actually had a conversion," announces
Sumner, with as much religious fervour as his
half-whisper ofa voice will allow. "I got intoitjust
after the first New Order album. I'd just come
through that Joy Division time and really Joy
Division was about heavy things, about the dark
side of human nature and I'd gone down that
"I
avenue with Joy Division and Ian (Curtis) had
died and I'd got into a bit of a rut. The fjrst dance
record I actually heard was Planet Rock which
was a rip-off of Trans-European Express by
Kraftwerk,which Ian used to really love. He used
to play Kraftwerk before we'd goon stage.
"ButI literallysaw the lightwhen I was in New
York with New Order and I went to this club.
Someone had spiked my drink with a tab ofacid let's put it that way - and all of a sudden, all rhis
electronic music
Bambaataa
-
-
Giorgio Moroder, Afrika
It was like being blind
made sense.
and someone camealongand put theseglasses on
you that made you see again. I stayed at the club
from about one in the morning until 12 o'clock
the next day.I staggered out, off my head, and I'll
some musical quiz show."
always remember the door opening and all this
for inspiration. He'd say, Right, we got three
b
hours in lhis studio lhen James Brown s coming
in. That actually happened. we had fucking
James Brown waiting to follow us in. tt reqlly
taught me that you had to be able to come up with
the goods on command if you were to be a successful musician. And Johnny's got that too. If
there was a synthesizer here now, I reckon we
could write a halfdecent song."
With characteristic camp, Tennant labelled
the temporary quartet "A Blind Faith foi the
'90s" - a joke which Bernard never particularly
understood.
"What was Blind Faith?" he asks now,
ght, clear sunlight flooding in and I saw this
huge yellow taxi waiting for me outside and it
stuck in my head like a polaroid. That was my
conversion to dance music."
"Mine wasn't as dmmatic as that," laughs
Marr. "I was into youth clubs, lived in them, and
got into stuff like Fatback and War and Ohio
Players. Stuff that would now be called rare
groove. Even up until the lime when The Smiths
were forming, I used to DJ at clubs called Berlin
and The Exil. jusl belore lhe Hacienda opened.
and playJames Brown and old dance stufl Then,
in '82, all this really good stuff came out of New
York like Jellybean, Bobby O, Sharon Redd,
Afrika Bambaataa and Chic, so it wasquite a natural evolulion intodance music for me."
Hadn't it been part of The Smiths' manifesto
to avoid drum machines and synthesizers at all
costs? "If a synthesizer appea$ on a Smiths
record," Morrissey had pouted, "then I won't."
"Yeah. he did." smiles Marr. "Morrissey
always went on aboutThe Smiths not having synthesizers but there were lots more keyboards on
Smiths records than people imagine. We used
them forstrings and keyboard parts. Justbecause
they didn't make lhal clichdd robot synthesizer
noise didn't mean they weren't synthesizers."
And lo, when Morrissey began to release solo
singles, Last Of The Famous lntetnational
Playboys featured a classic Eno/Roxy synth solo.
"Ah, but notice it's old, lhough," winks Marr.
"If it's old. that's OK."
LEcrRoNlc's FIRsr SINGLE
Getting Away With It was
recorded (unusuilly, some
18 months before their
album would be completed)
with the Pet Shop Boys or "Neil Tennanl
and his gruripy ftiend" as Sumner affectionately remembers the duo.
"We were real Pet Shop Boy fans," gushes
Marr, "and when they came up to Manchester to
record with us, we all sat in the room - I think we
were all pretty nervous - and we had the equipment on on side and we were all on the other.
Then someone, Neil, I think, said, Well I've got
this chord sequence. And he'd go over tothe synthesizer and play it. Then he'd sit down again and
I'dgo,I've got this bass line and wander over and
play it then come and sit down again. It was like
"It's best to work like that though,"
adds
Sumner. "One thing I learnt from Arthur Baker
(the producer) was never to sit around and wait
"Sixties supergroup," explains Marr. "That's
just the disease of people having to draw analogies between old groups and new groups. Fair
enough, it's a reference point for people, but it's
inevitably inaccurate. If s unfortunate."
"I think that'll be the way of the '90s," says
Sumner. "A lot of groups will collaborate. It's a
healthything. As long as it's not mutual wank-off
cash-in indulgence like Rod Stewart and Tina
Turner. Because ofthe stuff that happened in the
old days, it's still not a particularly fashionable
idea to do what we're doing. Ultimately it's down
to the records we make. If the songs are good,
thenyou are. You've got to deliver the goods. We
were aware ofthe pressure to not make adoodly,
improvisational Jazz Odyssey-type record but we
wanted the challenge of making a commercial
album. We could have made a shit avant-garde
record and when people criticised it said, Well,
it's avant-garde, mate, what did you expect? It's
very hard to come up with a good set of chords
and a decent melody."
On Electronic's first LP, they have achieved
this elusive feat several times over. More than a
New Order/Smiths difference-splitting operation,
Electronic the album boasts a unique sound
which marries beatbox and acoustic guitar and
Sumner's plaintive deadpan with Marr's high-risk
melodic contagiousness. lt is a record, the group
agree.thatcan be happily appreciated in a club, at
home or in the car, and it introduces a concept we
may hear a lot more of yetrthe micro-rave.
"l've noticed recently," observes Sumner,
'that I've gone out on a Saturday, had a great
time, got home and not been able to remember
one record. I wanted to make the sort of dance
music that youcould have in a club and remember
or play at home and sing along to."
o
HROUGHOUTTHE LATTER hAIf
of the'80! MaII and Sumner
were the subject of constant
rumour and speculation.
Would Johnny leave The
Smiths? Was Bernard bored with New
Order? Could Morrissey go on without
Johnny? HadJohnnyhit the bottle? WasBernard
a bit ofa drughead? In retrospect these questions
are easily answered: yes, yes, yes. yes, and well.
yes. Are they keen, this time around, to avoid
such pitfalls?
"Drinking too much? A pitfall?" laughs Marr.
"Thals summat to be proud ofwhere we're from.
lad."
"That's the reason you're in a group. isn't it?"
frowns Sumncr. "To drink too much."
How true was it that towards the end of The
Smiths, Marr was drinking two bottles of Remy
Martin a day?
"Fairly true, yeah." he says soberly. "It's easy
toturn it into The Mythical Lost Years but everyone in the band was drinking heavily. I wasdrinking before I was eating. I was drinking in the
morning. The worrying thing was I didn't think I
was pissed, I always thought I was totally lucid.
Then I sta ed wondering why there was lwo of
everyrhing. Why we were an eight-piece. After35
days ofdoing it, you come home and realise that
you're actually in a pretty bad way."
Did no-one in The Smiths express concern?
"There wasn't really anyone there 10 do that.
Morrissey was concerned, of course: we did take
care ofeach other like that. But this happened a!
a point when all our own personal problems had
become insurmountable. There were so many
outside pressures and we didn't have a manager
oreven anyone we could trust."
Did Marr have 10 aclually dry out?
"Yeah, I had to stop. For about eight weeks I
had to dry out.lt was a bastard.lt's funnybecause
throughoul all my leenage years I was prelty anlidrink. Butsuddenly you have to go out in fronr of
15,000 people in an American arena and you
think, God, we're only this little band from
Manchester. You feel you have to be physically
and sonically big. Basically you have to leg it
aroundthe stage more.There was a huge pressure
on me and Morrissey to put on a show but you
didn't notice it ifyou were drunk.
"I was never a pain-in-the-arse falling about
knob-head drunk. I used to just take it out on
myself. I was always prettyjolly bur it had to stop.
Although when we played at the DodgerStadium
in front of 60,000 people (Electronic's trouserdarkening choice of debut concert supporting
Depeche Mqde in America) I really felt I needed
a
drink."
"I had one
or two rhat night," interjects
Sumner. "I was plastered. But it's funny, people
think I'm this shy, retiring boy of a man who shits
bricks every time he has to go on stage. It's not
true. I go out and get pissed and have a good
laugh. You don't have to be Van Halen to have a
good time. In a way. it's like saying to Bob
Marley. did marijuana increase your en,oyment
ofperforming? It's like drinkingbefore you go to
a party. Youjust do it to loosen up."
Could Sumner be described as an 'Ecstasy
casualty"?
"Well." he says after a furrow-browed pause.
"'casualty' implies an accidenl. I'm all forexpanding one's mind, let's put it that way. I think when
you're doing a concert you have to go off into a
lmncelike stale. I'm not saying you have to take
Ecslasy to do that but you have to go oul on that
exlra{errestdal limb. I don'l mean UFOS and
things but in terms ofexperience. I think Ecstasy
maybehelpeda\ akenorre-awakensomelhingrn
people much like acid did in the'60s."
Have either of Electronic ever performed on
acid?
"Yeah," says Sumner. "A long time ago. Once
or twice. Not completely obliterated but just a bit
out ofit."
"l have." declares Marr. "Electronic's second
gigat Dodger Stadium. It was.. . fabulous.'
wrxr
SMTTHS
('87)
AND
Electronic ('89), Marr went
through a rather promiscuous period of sessioneering.
"A young tartl" he laughs. "lt
must have seemed like I was playing with
absolutely everyone but there weren't
really that many. There was so much
Smithsphobia, fall-out everywhere. a lor of pressure and itwas not a good climate to attempt to do
something on my own. I was fed up of writing
songs in a way. too. We d wrilten 60-odd songs in
five and a half years and I just wanted to make
records and be a brilliant guitar player but withour alllhe responsibility thal went with being in a
group. So I temporarily becamc a stand-in member of The Pretenders. I was never permanent. I
was Pretending. But I hung out with Chrissie
(Hynde) foralmost a year. She wasjust such good
fun. She'sgot an interesting outlook, and she really helped me out a lot emotionally after The
Smiths split. The only thing I re8ret from that
time is that they shoved this fantastic version of
1969 we did - officially approved by Iggy Pop away on the B-side of Windows Of The World
and nobody heard it."
Then Keith Richards called.
"He'd rung me up about a year before the
split. He said we should get together and hang
out, so we did. He was really good to me, (rlrred
Richads impression) Really fantastic, maaan. "
Then Bryan Ferry - who told Q he liked the
cut of Marr's "jib".
"He said he liked the cut of my jib? Well, I
liked the cut of his trouse$. Really good, downto-earth bloke."
Then David Bowie.
*l had to blow that one. A bit too Spinal Tap
for me. Couldn't see myselfsqueezing into the old
spandex."
Then. er, Matt Johnson.
"I want to say this. I lovc being in The The.
Love it. I keep saying that in interviews and noone wants to seem to fucking know about it.
People say Matt's pompous and unpopular but
he's not in the least and I'm not just saying that
because he's my mate."
And what if tomorrow Mo.rissey were to
materialise on Marr's doorstep enquiring about
the possibility of re-marriage?
"l d say, Alright, Mo?zer, me old mate, how's
it going? Long time no see," jokes Marr, then
turns ratherserious. "But we're talking hypothetically bccause that situation just wouldn't arise. I
don't think it would be good for either of us."
But whereas Marr has found a series of successful collaborators, Morrissey seems to have
struggled.
"l don't know ifhe has or he hasn't," says Marr
defensively. "Maybe he's happy. Maybe people
should leave him alone on that score. I think he
has come up with a couple of good tunes. What
I've heard is better than most of the other stuff
that's around. Leave him alone, you know, he's
all righl."
o WHAT oF ELEcrRoNrc's MUsical future? With one album - on
which virtually every track is a
potential dance hit - in the bag,
will they follow their miserablist
honky instincts and move on to pastures
less trainer-friendly?
"lt'sbeen inte resting watching the Hacienda,"
muses Sumner. one of the club's co-owners.
"People come for about three years then stop
coming. Then another generation comes. But
house music has remained constant. It's stayed
about
a
lo1 longer than anyone
expected.
Especially in the North of England where people
like fast, up-tempo house. I still love it, personally. It really affects me. I can still see myselfshuffling around the house to 125 beats-per-minute
when I'm 70."
"The problem dance music will face in the
future." concludes Marr. Nostradamuslike. "is
that the music industry is still looking for the new
Beatles. And as a fan ofpop music t think it would
be great for a gang of handsome 17-year-olds !o
come along and play the best music in the world.
But I donl see that. All I see is two handsome.
rather olderpeople doing
it."
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