Moon of Alabama: August 2004

Transcription

And must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
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August 31, 2004
Flip Flop (Re: Goalposts)
Are we getting confused here? Could this guy please make up his mind and stop changing
his opinion twice in 96 hours. Is he losing and will lose what you cannot lose, or is he
wining and will win what you cannot win? I donÂ´t get it, but this somehow feels like he
is flipping it and will flop.
August 31, 2004
Remarks by the President of the American Legion
In this different kind of war, we may never sit down at a peace table. But
make no mistake about it, we are winning, and we will win.
August 31, 2004
Press Gaggle by Scott Mcclellan
MR. McCLELLAN: I think that it's the President making it crystal clear that
not only are we winning it, but we will win it.
August 30, 2004
Exclusive interview with 'Today' host Matt Lauer
Lauer: â€œSo Iâ€™m just saying can we win it? Do you see that?â€•
President Bush: â€œI don't think you can win it...."
August 28, 2004
Remarks by the President at Perrysburg, Ohio Rally
We've got more to do to wage and win this war on terror.
...
I have made a commitment to our troops and the commitment to the loved
ones of our troops that they will have the resources they need to fight and
win the war against the terrorists.
July 30, 2004
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/index.html (1 von 32) [16.11.2004 18:44:19]
Raw Data: Bush Speech in Springfield
We have a clear vision on how to win the war on terror and bring peace to
the world.
May 3, 2004
Remarks by the President and Mrs. Bush at "ask President Bush" Event
I've got a plan to win the war on terror.
October 9, 2003
President Discusses Progress in Iraq
And beyond Iraq, the war on terror continues. There will be no quick victory
in this war. We will persevere and victory is certain.
Posted by Bernhard on August 31, 2004 at 01:12 PM | Permalink | Comments (33) |
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Thread Open
Use as you like ...
Posted by Bernhard on August 31, 2004 at 08:34 AM | Permalink | Comments (101) |
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George Bush == Andy Warhol?
by anna missed
Last night Maureen Dowd was on both Charlie Rose and the Letterman show
simultaneously. IÂ´ll bet she has not been on any TV show in probably 10 years, which
brought to mind both the media and the fact that on both shows she was asked how
George Bush could put John Kerry on the defensive about the latter much more illustrious
military career. Her rather lame answer to the question, was that Kerry himself was, a
little lame. It would seem that this issue might harken to the larger conundrum of how
Bush manages to keep the dialectic away from himself the man, and, turn it against Kerry
the man. In some ways this is essentially the Teflon effect, that Reagan pioneered, and
now Bush is using to greater effect (is this why Bush himself likes to identify with
Reagan?)
So, coming from visual arts, I, would put forth the notion that the Bush (Rove)
Administration has stolen, at least metaphorically, a page from the book (myth) of Andy
Warhol. I know this sounds bizarre, but, Warhols career was essentially founded on two
factors that might shed some light on this inexplicable issue.
First, Warhols career was established as an antithesis to the prevailing, and much lauded
Abstract Expressionist movement, and the first American (visual) art movement to attract
international respect. While grounded loosely to the tenets of phenomenology and
existentialism its artistic embodiment lies in the act (of painting) as a vehicle to self,
responsibility, and archetypal discovery. Andy Warhol, on the other hand, eschewed all
that is intrinsic to the individual, replacing the individual, as it were, with a depersonalized
image. While some may see this action as a critique of modern culture I would see it as a
warm and submissive embrace.
Second, the artwork of Andy Warhol was in essence, supplanted by what Robert Hughes
has called the â€œaffectationâ€•, or the embodiment, of the art idea as the personification
of the artist himself. With cultural amusement aside i.e. â€œI want to marry my tape
recorderâ€•, â€œeveryone will be famous for 15 minutesâ€•, etc. etc. Warhol managed to
in effect cultify himself. While this may sound trivial at first, in the political arena the
notion that a person could assemble a personification, an affectation, an image that can
supersede the man himself and have that image attain political currency, should give one
pause.
The allurement of self affectation (on a stylistically level) is probably widespread in
American culture; the complete remake of the person is another thing again. Could that
little cinderblock church in Crawford Texas where George Bush was reportedly reborn be
just a little bit like Warhols factory in New York City were he (Warhol) transformed
himself from a â€œshoe illustratorâ€• into the quintessential American artist?
Ironically, for Kerry, Bushes (new) affected image, like Warhol, renders criticism mute.
Kerry is unable to attack Bush on his history as a man, because he is confronted with Bush
the IMAGE, the affected and reformed Bush will defer to the weakness of us all and his
triumph over weakness-- essentially like Warhol could transmutate moral weakness into
the ultimate coolness. Kerry on the other hand, is left pretty much with his own legacy, as
a man, dealing with the challenges and contradictions that are the natural wake of public
service.
George Bushes latest incarnation as the WAR PRESIDENT also carries the same
invulnerability along with even greater self aggrandizement, belying confrontation with
Kerrys own Vietnam proclamations of â€œwho will be the last man to die for a
mistakeâ€•.
So, John Kerrys challenge is to either show a better way around the mistakes of the Bush
administration (lame), or to crack open the affectations with some kind of public
â€œinterventionâ€• that would reveal the wider truth (in the debate).
We shouldn't forget that after Andy Warhols death, he had few personal friends, his upper
West side townhouse was found to be full of classical paintings and rococo furniture.
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Confused: Why Do They Vote GOP?
In yesterdays USA Today Michael Moore says The GOP doesn't reflect America. He
claims that most Republicans are not in line with their party on most issues, but their
reason to vote for the GOP agenda is:
Money. That's what it comes down to for the RINOs. They do work hard and
have been squeezed even harder to make ends meet. They blame Democrats
for wanting to take their money.
Is it really this easy?
Is this not more about fear of insecurity which lets people vote for the party they assume
will make them more safe? If so, what part of the fear is real and what part is induced by
propaganda?
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders ... All you
have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism."
Herman Goering during the Nuernberg trials
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August 30, 2004
Moving the Goalposts
October 9, 2003
May 3, 2004
July 30, 2004
We have a clear vision on how to win the war on terror and bring peace to
the world.
August 28, 2004
...
ones of our troops that they will have the resources they need to fight and
win the war against the terrorists.
August 30, 2004
Lauer: â€œYou said to me a second ago, one of the things you'll lay out in
your vision for the next four years is how to go about winning the war on
terror. That phrase strikes me a little bit. Do you really think we can win this
war on terror in the next four years?â€•
President Bush: â€œI have never said we can win it in four years.â€•
President Bush: â€œI don't think you can win it. But I think you can create
conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of
the world
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Rep Con 2004
For the Republican delegates the question is: "Did he deliver?"
Thank you for this honor.
Together, we will renew America's purpose.
...
So tonight, we vow to our nation we will seize this moment of American
promise. We will use these good times for great goals.
We will confront the hard issues, threats to our national security, ...
...
Tonight in this hall, we resolve to be the party of - not of repose but of
reform. We will write not footnotes but chapters in the American story. ...
The world needs America's strength and leadership. And America's armed
forces need better equipment, better training and better pay. ... A generation
shaped by Vietnam must remember the lessons of Vietnam: When America
uses force in the world, the cause must be just, the goal must be clear and the
victory must be overwhelming. ... Now is the time not to defend outdated
treaties but to defend the American people.
A time of prosperity is a test of vision, and our nation today needs vision.
That's a fact. That's a fact.
...
And we need a leader to seize the opportunities of this new century ...
...
For me, gaining this office is not the ambition of a lifetime, but it is the
opportunity of a lifetime, and I will make the most of it.
I believe great decision are made with care, made with conviction, not made
with polls.
I do not need to take your pulse before I know my own mind.
I do not reinvent myself at every turn. I am not running in borrowed clothes.
...
The wait has been long, but it won't be long now.
A prosperous nation is ready to renew its purpose and unite behind great
goals, and it won't be long now.
Text of George W. Bush's acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention 2000
The answer will be a resounding "Yes!"
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August 29, 2004
Blow Off
There are many pieces coming to light about the spy case involving the PentagonÂ´s Iran
specialist Franklin.
Josh Marshall, Laura Rozen and Paul Glastris have been on the case for some month and
their new Iran-Contra II? piece in The Washington Monthly gives the best background
along with LauraÂ´s writings in her weblog War and Piece and JoshÂ´s in his Talking
Points Memo.
Also interesting is the background on AIPEC given yesterday by Juan Cole Israeli Spy in
Pentagon Linked to AIPAC and his excellent take on the scandal today Fomenting a War
on Iran.
Additional information today comes via Newsweek: And Now A Mole? and from the big
three: NYT F.B.I. Said to Reach Official Suspected of Passing Secrets, WaPo Analyst
Who Is Target of Probe Went to Israel and LAT Report on Iran Key to Spying Inquiry and
Pentagon Spy Flap Isn't Open-and-Shut Case.
Knight Ridder says "the probe is broader than previously reported, and goes well beyond
allegations that a single mid-level analyst gave a top-secret Iran policy document to
Israel": FBI espionage probe goes beyond Israeli allegations, sources say
The whole story is just too big and too complicate to be recapitulated here in full, but let
me highlight some points.
Larry Franklin is the PentagonsÂ´s top Iran policy analyst. He is working in the office of
Undersecretary of Defence for Policy Douglas Feith. He is also a Colonel in the Air Force
Reserve and has worked in Israel in this capacity. Some 18 month ago the FBI started an
investigation on Franklin for giving away US policy papers on Iran to AIPEC, the right
wing Israeli lobby group in Washington. AIPEC is said to have passed this information to
Israel. Newsweek reports: "Franklin also passed information gleaned from more highly
classified documents, [one] official said.".
Franklin, together with his colleague Harold Rhode did meet several times with Iranian
arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar and other Iranian exiles, dissidents and government
officials starting in October 2001. Ghorbanifar played a key role in the Reagan
administrationâ€™s Iran-Contra affair. The meetings also involved Michael Leeden,
Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italy's military intelligence agency, SISMI and the Italian
Minister of Defence Antonio Martino. The meetings backchanneled official US policy and
the State Department, but the White House is said to have blessed at least the first trip.
Defence Minister Antonio Martino is vice president of the Italian Friends of Israel
association (Link).
There are many connections to other scandals and it feels like these are all coming
together now:
● Retired Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, who had worked in the DoD Middle East
group, reported Israeli military and intelligence figures did work closely and off the
record with Feith and Wolfowitz in the planning of a Iraq war.
●
SISMI, the Italian military intelligence agency, is involved in the forged Nigerian
Yellow Cake documents that falsly connected Iraq to uranium aquisitions and did
lead to the Wilson/Plame case.
●
The Pentagon group now under scrutiny is the same that worked to put Ahmad
Chalabi into the top position in Iraq. The group is under investigation for illegally
giving US information to Chalabi who then has given these to Iran.
There are connections to a group of intelligence officers that are currently being
trained to "work" in Iran.
There is not yet a connection to Sibel EdmondÂ´s reports of foreign influence in the
FBIÂ´s translation service, but I do expect some connections to surface soon.
●
The opening of this scandal shortly before the Republican convention seems planed. The
number of "official leaks" is incredible and this looks like the general hit back by all
institutions and persons, CIA, State, FBI etc., that have been hurt by the Neocons over the
last years. The consequences for Bush and for the US foreign policy can hardly be
overestimated.
The Israeli press is rightly very concerned about the consequences of these scandals.
Haaretz: Focus: The 'dual loyalty' slur returns to haunt U.S. Jews and Analysis: The
Franklin affair will damage Israel's image JÂ´lem Post: Storm on the Israel-US horizon?
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August 27, 2004
Framing the Death of the Beast
"Starving the Beast", is the view that taxes should be cut in order to force severe cuts in
public spending. It is the unannounced policy of the Bush government and the Republican
party, camouflaged as supply-side economics. Here it is for once coming nearly
undisguised, delivered through an unsuspicious messenger.
First: take away what feeds the beast:
CNN - January 25, 2001 - Greenspan yes tax cuts
In testimony to the Senate Budget Committee, Greenspan declined to
comment on President Bush's $1.6 trillion, 10-year tax cut plan, saying a
decision on the size of a cut was best left up to Congress and the political
process. But the Fed chairman's backing of tax cuts as economically sound
likely will provide a boost to the new administration's proposals.
However, Greenspan played down the idea that tax cuts would provide an
immediate boost to the economy, saying that tax reduction is appropriate
as a long-term economic measure now because of estimates of a
larger-than-expected federal surplus."
Greenspan endorsed tax cuts - which are now proven to have gone mostly to the richer
part of the population - because there was a (perceived) budget surplus. First step taken.
Second step: bury the beast:
CNN August 27, 2004 - Greenspan: Aging to strain U.S.
"If we have promised more than our economy has the ability to deliver to
retirees without unduly diminishing real income gains of workers, as I fear
we may have, we must recalibrate our public programs so that pending
retirees have time to adjust through other channels," Greenspan said in
prepared remarks at an annual symposium.
...
Greenspan said raising payroll taxes to fund shortfalls in Social Security and
Medicare might only worsen the situation by imposing an extra burden on
workers.
Greenspan could have just reverted his 2001 position, but that would not fit his
masterâ€™s desire. He frames his statement to stifle the opposition. Saying "more than
our economy has the ability to deliver" stops any discussion about redistributing whatever
the economy is able to deliver; "without unduly diminishing real income gains of workers"
suggests that this would be the only available option at hand - diminishing capital gains is
not mentioned; "raising payroll taxes" is framing to a single source of government
income. The whole statement also frames him: Greenspan, the man apprehensive of social
needs and workers.
There are other solutions at hand: Increase taxes for the wealthy, now as low as 1932. The
health care systems could be streamlined and the costs of medication lowered. Reducing
the defence budget would make for a safer world and free money for pensions.
But "Starving the Beast" is not meant as a threat to capital gainers, defence contractors or
the pharma industry, it is a threat to the majority of the country.
In a long 2003 article, Paul Krugman came to the conclusion:
The astonishing political success of the antitax crusade has, more or less
deliberately, set the United States up for a fiscal crisis. How we respond to
that crisis will determine what kind of country we become.
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Off Topics - Open Thread
Various Views and News ...
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Your Weekly Terror Threat
Some read:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Al-Qaida may attempt to attack Veterans Affairs
hospitals as an alternative to more heavily guarded U.S. military
installations, the FBI and Homeland Security Department warn in a new
nationwide terrorism bulletin.
Although U.S. authorities say there is no credible intelligence regarding a
specific threat against such hospitals, the bulletin said there have been
persistent reports of "suspicious activity" at medical facilities throughout
the United States.
That includes "possible reconnaissance activities" this year at unspecified
military medical facilities in Bethesda, Md., and Aurora, Colo., the bulletin
said. Even though later investigation of these two incidents uncovered no
links to terrorism, the bulletin urges vigilance at VA hospitals on the part
of police and security personnel.
others read:
persistent reports of "suspicious activity" at medical facilities throughout the
United States.
links to terrorism, the bulletin urges vigilance at VA hospitals on the part of
police and security personnel.
Of course the author did intend the first read and I am betting all of my 95.1 Zambian
Kwacha that the Veteran theme is intentional too.
Report: al-Qaida May Target VA Hospitals
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August 26, 2004
The Mailman
What better way to avoid talking about the nations dead of a war that started 17 month
ago, than to talk about the survivors of a war that ended 375 month ago. The mailman may
help Kerry for now, but the next round of ads will work on KerryÂ´s anti-Vietnam actions
and will continue to lower his ratings.
Associated Press reports:
Former Georgia Senator Max Cleland, left, and former Green Beret Lt. Jim
Rassmann, center, approach a Secret Service Agent, right, on station at the
check point to the entrance of President Bush 's ranch Wednesday Aug. 25,
2004 in Crawford, Texas. Cleland tried to deliver a letter protesting ads
challenging John Kerry's Vietnam service to President Bush at his Texas
ranch Wednesday, but the Secret Service stopped Cleland short of his goal.
The Cleland letter (PDF)
Bush Edges Ahead of Kerry for the 1st Time
For the first time this year in a Times survey, Bush led Kerry in the
presidential race, drawing 49% among registered voters, compared with 46%
for the Democrat. In a Times poll just before the Democratic convention last
month, Kerry held a 2-percentage-point advantage over Bush.
That small shift from July was within the poll's margin of error. But it fit with
other findings in the Times poll showing the electorate edging toward Bush
over the past month on a broad range of measures, from support for his
handling of Iraq to confidence in his leadership and honesty.
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August 25, 2004
NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004
by anna missed
Pentagon officials today indicated that the current deployment of an additional 90,000
troops to Iraq is proceeding according to plans that were revealed three weeks ago. Forces
that were deactivated from Korea, Germany and other European military bases have
received their one week reorientation training and are currently in route to Kuwait to await
final orders. Following the two Shiite uprisings in October and the joint Sunni- Shiite
revolt in early November outgoing Bush administration officials say that in order to keep
the promised January 30 election schedule on track additional security was needed.
President Bush was quoted yesterday, at the Crawford ranch, â€œI made a promise to the
Iraqi people and IÂ´ll keep that promise, they will have democracy before I leave
officeâ€•. Former Iraqi defence minister and now acting Prime Minister Hazem Shaalan,
also at the Crawford ranch, expressed the need for more security â€œIf we donÂ´t receive
the security there will be nobody left to voteâ€•.
The new Iraqi government and their US supporters have been plagued in recent months by
the growing anti-Iraqi movement that has seen an advance in both in their numbers and
the flood of sophisticated weaponry that has been spirited into the country from Iran and
Syria. The controversy over the origin of the surface to air missile launchers that has
created so much tension with the Russians, perhaps bringing back some unpleasant
memories of the Soviet Afghan war, with the US supplying high tech weapons to the
Afghan rebels.
Russia's Putin has also lashed out at the US for the alleged deployment of two nuclear
equipped submarines into the Persian Gulf. Washington has denied these allocations.
China, also has weighed in on the Iranian question with significant foot dragging on the
upcoming talks with N. Korea.
The new troop deployment for Iraq has generated some controversy here in Washington
with some on the democratic side claiming â€œI told you soâ€• arguing that 90,000 will
not do the job so late in the game. While the general opinion on the hill is supportive of
the â€œaugmentationâ€• some also worry that plans are being laid out to provide a
â€œcover forceâ€• for a withdrawal, others in the minority, complain that this is an
escalation for the eventual invasion of Iran.
Both Bush and president elect Kerry express the mantra â€œwe cannot lose this war, we
must stay the courseâ€•.
Related news:
● President elect Kerry has endorsed the Bush administrations reinstatement of
conscription laws, vowing to use the new recruits in stateside duty only. Kerry has
called out the duty as â€œholding down the fortâ€•, here at home.
● Another anti-Iraqi attack on the green zone has led ambassador Negroponte to
advocate another wall to be built a half mile out around the green zone creating a
no-man zone perimeter to prevent the â€œpickup truckâ€• mortar barrages that have
become a nightly event.
● 26 US peace keepers were killed yesterday in various engagements around Iraq,
bringing the total to 1, 687 killed in action since the beginning of hostilities.
● Unnamed pentagon sources disclosed yesterday that satellite images indicate that
the increase in Iranian troop movements have continued unabated.
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Oily Thread II
For reference you may want to read Oily Thread I.
Could we also put a bit of water into this one? Water is often essential to get oil out of the
ground. It is as scarce as oil and is the cause of many conflicts. Like the oil industry, the
water industry is an interesting field for investments.
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August 24, 2004
Dow 6,000
"The funding of America is an accident waiting to happen."
Economist Stefen Roach warns of a near term crash of US assets.
The current account and trade deficit of the US are funded through foreign private savers
and Asian central banks who buy US assets. There is an imbalance, when foreign savers
increasingly pay for US consumption and an adjustment is needed.
â€œAll the classic symptoms of a US current-account adjustment are now
evident. At the same time, the stewards of globalization -- the IMF, the BIS,
the OECD, and even the Federal Reserve -- are now all on the same page in
sounding the alarm.
Politics could correct a big part of the imbalances, but tax increases and spending
reductions are unpopular with the elecotrate, so this will not happen. The only way Roach
sees the correction to be done is by a drop in US asset values, stocks, bonds and the
balloned housing market.
When will this happen?
Roach sees signs that hint to the next few months. Each month an additional 86 billion
dollars of foreign money gets invested in US assets. The ÂófficialÂ´ share of this money
inflow - the buying of US bonds by foreign central banks - has increased from its long
term share of 14% to 36%. The share of private foreign buyers of US assets is decreasing.
Private foreign investors seam to find better value elsewhere and for now the central
banks of Japan and China step in and buy US$ assets do keep their currency from rising
and their exports and job numbers from falling.
The last time such an increase of official buying of US assets happened was 1987. Then
the "venting" of the imbalances was done between October 13 and October 20, 1987 when
the Dow Jones dropped by one third from 2,500 to 1,600. The equivalent now is a drop in
the Dow Jones from 10,100 today to 6,400 next Tuesday. As the imbalances are bigger
now than 1987, the drop may be well beyond this. Such a â€œventingâ€• could escalate:
Jens O. Parsson:
Dying of Money: Lessons of the Great German & American Inflations
Until 1922 and the very brink of collapse, Germans and especially foreign
investors were absorbing marks in huge quantities. Only the international
reputation of the Reichsmark, the faith that an economic giant like Germany
could not fail, made this possible. The storage factor caused by the investors
willingness to save marks kept the marks from being dumped immediately
into the markets, and thereby for a long while held prices in check. The
precise moment when the inflation turned sharply upward, toward its vertical
climb, was undoubtedly timed by no event, but by the dawning psychological
awareness of the German and foreign investor that Germany was not going to
back its money. With that, the rush to get out of the mark was on. Like a
damn bursting, the seas of marks flooded into the markets and drove prices
beyond all bounds. The German government strove mightily to outflood the
sea. The sea of marks which had been stored up by Germans and especially
by trusting foreigners flooded forth and fought to buy into other investments,
foreign currencies, tangible goods, almost anything but marks.
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August 23, 2004
Open Off Topics Thread
News and Views ...
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Newspeak Collection
anti-Iraqi Forces describes nationalistic Iraqi insurgents fighting against a foreign
occupation as in:
11th MEU battles anti-Iraqi forces in An Najaf.
This is my favorite example for the application of Orwellian Newspeak
The basic idea behind Newspeak was to remove all shades of meaning from
language, leaving simple dichotomies (pleasure and pain, happiness and
sadness, good thoughts and thoughtcrimes).
Please help me to collect more examples of contemporary Newspeak. Please include:
● the Newspeak wording
● its real meaning
● a link to and/or a citation of an application
A friend will use the collection in a class about 1984.
Thanks!
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August 22, 2004
Losing the Game
Looking at the Sunday Talk Shows guest list, the Swift Boat theme is played on. Why has
the Kerry campaign not been firing against this with full wrath?
Kerry calls on Bush to stop personal attacks is just lame, as are attempts to stop the smear
ads through courts. The general election theme is about leading and defending the people
through offence, not about Âćalling on BushÂ´ and Â´going to courtÂ´.
Kerry should accuse Bush personally of smearing all veterans and all current soldiers.
BushÂ´s campaign supports and facilitate denying the correctness of military records for
achieved medals. There is enough material to make a direct Bush campaign involvement
play in the media.
The method used on this issue is a hallmark of RoveÂ´s operations. There will be more,
much more like this coming in the next weeks. If the Kerry campaign does not learn how
to counter such stuff immediately, they lose their defence. If the campaign does not learn
to attack with the same ruthlessness, they lose their offence too.
In this election losing either the offence or the defence is sufficient to lose the game.
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August 21, 2004
Benign Social Genocide
This from the lead paragraphs of todayâ€™s New York Times: U.S. Now Said to Support
Growth for Some West Bank Settlements.
The Bush administration, moving to lend political support to Prime Minister
Ariel Sharon at a time of political turmoil, ... In the latest modification of
American policy, the administration now supports construction of new
apartments in areas already built up in some settlements, as long as the
expansion does not extend outward to undeveloped parts of the West Bank,
according to the officials...
Translation:
The Bush administration says it will take a 180 degree turn in foreign policy
and snub the road map partners Russia, Europe and the United Nations. The
administration ditches its previous stand on a solution of the
Israeli/Palestinian conflict and sides with Ariel Sharon to significantly extend
Israeli settlements on Palestinian land in West Jordan.
National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice and her director of Middle East
affairs, Elliott Abrams, explained the issue: The President takes this step to
nuture the votes from the Jewish and evangelical electorate for his sharply
contested reelection. Candidate John Kerry, competing for the Jewish votes
and financial support by the Jewish establishment, is not expected to disagree
with Ariel Sharon and President Bush on the Israeli strategy and the
expansion of settlements.
There are two patriotic imperatives for Israel. The first, to take possession of Eretz Israel,
Â´the holy land of its fathersÂ´, contradicts the second, by which the state will always
need a massive Jewish majority. The demographic growth of the Palestinian people does
not allow for a peaceful solution of this contradiction. Short of reenacting a holocaust like
scenario, current Israeli policy, as described by Israeli sociologists like Baruch
Kimmerling, is to achieve a politicide. The application of military, diplomatic and
psychological measures to extinguish the Palestinian people as a political, social and
economical entity.
Major steps have already been taken by destroying the infrastructure that could enable any
Palestinian leader to effectively govern his people. The next steps to be taken now are to
further expand the imperial strongholds in West Jordan, build more roads between them to
sectorize Palestinian land and erect walls that restrict Palestinians to four or five
Bantustans. The hope of the Palestinians has to be broken to make them leave West
Jordan, thus: benign social genocide.
Sharon, as any other Israeli politician, knows, that there will never be any US president or
presidency candidate criticising Israel in the months before a contested election. He grips
his chance now to completely bury the road map forever.
Again the SCLM fails to report the facts in straight words and refuses to analyse the real
political coherences.
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August 20, 2004
Teen Sex
"The thunder of teen sexual activity and dating behavior may signal the lightning of
substance abuse"
Joseph A. Califano, Jr. - Chairman and President of CASA
Google News today finds 243 stories with headlines like:
●
Teen sex, drug link,
●
Teenagers link sex, substance abuse and
●
TeenagerÂ´s Sexual Activity is Tied to Drugs and Drink.
All are based on a study (pdf) released yesterday by the Center on Addiction and
Substance Abuse (CASA) at Columbia University.
The papers base their stories on the press release which hightlights:
SEXUALLY ACTIVE FRIENDS AND DATING PRACTICES CAN
SIGNAL INCREASE IN A TEENâ€™S SUBSTANCE ABUSE RISK Girls Who Date Boys Two or More Years Older Likelier to Smoke, Drink,
Get Drunk, and Use Illegal Drugs.
Other key findings on the first few of the studies 70 pages are:
Fifty-six percent of 12- to 17-year olds surveyed report they have friends who
are sexually active. The more sexually active friends a teen has, the likelier
that teen is to smoke, drink or use illegal drugs.
Meme: Sexual activity induces drug usage.
A teen, half or more of whose friends regularly view and download Internet
pornography, is three times likelier to smoke, drink or use illegal drugs than a
teen who has no such friends.
Meme: Internet pornography makes teens use drugs.
CASA surveys have consistently shown that the more often children have
dinner with their parents, the less likely they are to smoke, drink or use illegal
drugs.
Meme: Traditional family life forestalls drug usage.
Such are the Key Findings. Now lets take an unusual dive into the depth of the study:
The incidence of sexually active friends ranges from 28 percent of 12-year
olds to 79 percent of 17-year old.
i.e.: When teens grow older they are more likely to have sex and are more likely to smoke
pot.
The prevalence of teens with friends who regularly view and download
pornography from the Internet increases with age, from nearly one-third of
12-year olds (31 percent) to nearly two-thirds of 17-year olds (61 percent).
i.e.: When teens grow older they are more likely to look at porn and are more likely to
drink bear.
As teens get older they are less likely to have dinner with their families on a
regular basis. Thirty-two percent of 17-year olds have dinner seven nights a
week with their families compared to 56 percent of 13-year olds.
i.e.: When teens are younger they are more likely to have family dinner and are less likely
to have sex, to smoke, to drink and to look at porn.
To be fair, the study finds the simple connection. Short before the appendix it says:
Age remains one of the best predictors of risk in the CASA survey: as a teen
gets older, his or her substance-abuse risk increases.
But the well researched New York Times, as 242 other newspapers, would never print
such banalities. That may well fit the intentions of Columba Bush, First Lady of Florida,
and of some other boardmembers of CASA.
TrackBack
August 19, 2004
Other Topics - Open Thread
TrackBack
In Memoriam August 19, 2003
Salim Lone:
I lived to tell the tale
... The UN is precious - not because of its name, but because it struggles,
however imperfectly, to reach global consensus on the world's critical issues.
The fanatics who blew up the UN mission dealt a severe blow to its fortunes
in the Middle East. But more lasting damage is being done to the legitimacy
of this irreplaceable institution by demands to obey US dictates. If it
continues to bow to pressure, its capital will be squandered and its resolutions
rendered weightless for large chunks of humanity.
Member states and the secretary general should see this eroding legitimacy as
the greatest challenge the organisation faces. But they will be unable to make
effective headway unless the US itself recognises that it needs, in its own
interest, to show greater respect for the UN, from which it can learn to define
and pursue its own interests more wisely.
United Nations:
Observance of the First Anniversary of the Baghdad Tragedy
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August 18, 2004
Oily Thread
Oil and Other Topics
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Unintended Consequences
From gung-ho in Najaf to closing cinemas in Thailand:
Just five days after they arrived here to take over from Army units that had
encircled Najaf since an earlier confrontation in the spring, new Marine
commanders decided to smash guerrillas loyal to the rebel Shiite cleric
Moktada al-Sadr.
8-Day Battle for Najaf: From Attack to Stalemate
Imagine a Muslim army about to bomb the Vatican with the help of a few
Christian mercenaries while the Pope is away, recovering from an
angioplasty in London and silent about the whole drama. This is roughly
what is happening in Najaf ...
Besides the Shrine of Imam Ali, there are graves of other prophets of Allah Prophet Adam and Prophet Noah. Abraham the patriarch and his son Isaac
once bought land in Najaf in what is now called the Valley of Peace - none
other than the gigantic Wadi al-Salaam, the world's largest cemetery...
A unifying factor across Iraq
A U.S. warplane bombed Najaf's vast cemetery as fighting with Shiite
militants intensified...
Peace Bid & U.S. Bombs Hit Najaf
Iraqi Defence Minister Hazem al-Shaalan on Wednesday demanded Shiite
militants in the holy city of Najaf surrender within hours, or the Iraqi troops
would launch a large-scale attack on them.
Najaf militants given hours to surrender or face lesson
"We set ablaze an oil well in Amara. This is a simple warning to the
government of [Prime Minister Iyad] Allawi and to occupation forces, that
we will bomb the main south oil export line if they do not leave Najaf within
48 hours and end the siege," said the statement signed by The Secret Action
Group of The Imam Mahdi Army.
Violence flares as delegation quits Najaf
Oil prices surged over $47 a barrel on Wednesday on evidence that energy
costs are not substantially slowing the economic growth that fuels oil demand
and fresh threats by rebel militia against Iraqi oil facilities. ...
Some Asian countries, increasingly worried about oil prices, are planning
measures to conserve energy or to cushion its impact. Thailand is drafting
plans to encourage shops and cinemas to close early, while South Korea
may consider cutting oil tax rates at the end of August, in a bid to shield the
economy from red-hot oil prices.
Oil Hits Record, Rebels Hit Iraqi Wells
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CPI: Camouflaging Price Increase
Either some journalists have no idea of math or economic numbers, or persistent general
price increases do not make good headlines when wages are stagnant.
Yesterday the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) published the newest Consumer Price
Index (CPI). Today some media come up with these headlines:
●
The Journal News - Prices drop in July
●
Independent - US prices fall as housing market grows
●
Forbes - Consumer Prices Decline, Housing Rebounds
●
Reuters - Consumer Prices Drop, Industry Output Up
●
Toronto Star - US consumer prices dip
These headlines contradict what US friends tell me. What happened? Picked up BLS table
CUUR0000SA0 (Not seasonally adjusted, U.S. city average, All items) and crunched it to show
the year-over-year inflation rate:
The inflationary year-over-year increase in consumer prices, as measured by the BLS,
was 3,0% for July 2004 - slightly smaller than the 3.3% y-o-y increase for June 2004.
BTW: There are valid reasons to believe, that the CPI, as measured by the government, is significantly
smaller than the inflation that actually occurs. Well, if you would have to increase your payments for
social security recipients, veterans, interests for TIPS-bonds etc. in line with the CPI increases, would
you not like to tweak the numbers down a little bit?
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August 17, 2004
Bad Choice
Looking at the US election from the outside, makes one wonder about the choices
presented. On the one side Bush, elite offspring with deep relations to big money, on the
other side Kerry, elite offspring with deep relations to big money. There are some nuances
and probably Kerry would be "not as bad as Bush".
Judging from his speeches, he is as belligerent as Bush, while trying a little longer on
multilateralism. He "defended the nation" in Viet Nam and promises to do the same as
president - defended the nation in Viet Nam??? His economic points are slightly less to
the right than Bushes, but does anybody believe, that whoever paid into his record election
funds will not present the bill and will get the contracted payback?
The alarm is sounded that the progressives have to vote for Kerry - Anything but Bush but then, where is the hope of change? As George Monbiot says in his Guardian column
today, the same alarm bells rang in 2000 and the same alarm bells will ring again in 2008,
2012, 2016.
The US needs a deep change, a landslide to the progressive side, IF it does want to survive
as a representative democracy. This change will not come through voting for the lesser
evil.
There is a need for positive votes. Vote for the political direction you stand for, not
against those politics you do not stand for. If the balance is tilted to the far right, put your
weight on the very left pan to nudge it back. Voting for the middle can not change the
reading on the scale.
As has been seen in many European countries, the introduction of alternative political
powers takes years, maybe two or three decades. It will have to start at the local level,
scramble into state policy and in ten, fifteen years, it may be able to really compete on the
national level. It may falter there, but then it will have done enough damage to the
democrats polls, to pull that party back to the left pan of the balance.
If this has the consequence of putting Bush back into the seat for another four years, we
will see bad things coming. If Kerry wins the seat, the times will likely be similar
uncomfortable. The economics of the next four years will be terrible - no matter who wins
this election. There are structural imbalances that will break in an earthquake-like
correction. Here one would rather like to see Bush suffer the consequences of his deeds,
than see the democrats made responsible for this and be damaged for the next decades to
come.
Anything but Bush is like putting the finger on the middle of the scale. It does not change
the reading. ItÂ´s a bad choice.
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August 16, 2004
TrackBack
Knock, knock
inÂ·timÂ·iÂ·date: to make timid or fearful : FRIGHTEN; especially : to compel or deter
by or as if by threats
Knock, knock:
● Will you take part in that demonstration?
● Is your neighbor planing to do so?
● What about your sister?
● Will your parents be there too?
● At that demonstration, are you planning disruptions?
● Are you planing violence?
● Do you know anybody who is doing so?
● Do you realize, that it is a crime to withhold such information?
Thank you. WeÂ´ll be back!
[The Justice Department's Office of Legal Policy, in a five-page internal
analysis] ... said any First Amendment impact posed by the F.B.I.'s
monitoring of the political protests was negligible and constitutional.
The opinion said: "Given the limited nature of such public monitoring, any
possible 'chilling' effect caused by the bulletins would be quite minimal and
substantially outweighed by the public interest in maintaining safety and
order during large-scale demonstrations."
...
In the last few weeks, beginning before the Democratic convention, F.B.I.
counterterrorism agents and other federal and local officers have sought to
interview dozens of people in at least six states, including past protesters and
their friends and family members, about possible violence at the two
conventions. In addition, three young men in Missouri said they were trailed
by federal agents for several days and subpoenaed to testify before a federal
grand jury last month, forcing them to cancel their trip to Boston to take part
in a protest there that same day.
...
"The message I took from it," said Sarah Bardwell, 21, an intern at a Denver
antiwar group who was visited by six investigators a few weeks ago, "was
that they were trying to intimidate us into not going to any protests and to let
us know that, 'hey, we're watching you.' ''
...
The three men "were really shaken and frightened by all this," [Ms.
Lieberman (ACLU)] said, "and they got the message loud and clear that if
you make plans to go to a protest, you could be subject to arrest or a visit
from the F.B.I."
NYT: F.B.I. Goes Knocking for Political Troublemakers
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August 15, 2004
Gods and Daemons
In an Los Angeles Times Op-Ed, Sam Harris rants about religion as "Holly Terror"
President Bush and the Republicans in the Senate have failed â€” for the
moment â€” to bring the Constitution into conformity with Judeo-Christian
teachings. But even if they had passed a bill calling for a constitutional ban
on gay marriage, that would have been only a beginning. Leviticus 20:13 and
the New Testament book of Romans reveal that the God of the Bible doesn't
merely disapprove of homosexuality; he specifically says homosexuals
should be killed: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them
have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death."
... Koran 9:123 tells us it is the duty of every Muslim man to "make war on
the infidels who dwell around you." Osama bin Laden may be despicable, but
it is hard to argue that he isn't acting in accord with at least some of the
teachings of the Koran. ... Religious faith is always, and everywhere,
exonerated. It is now taboo in every corner of our culture to criticize a
person's religious beliefs. ... There are now more people in our country who
believe that the universe was created in six solar days than there were in
Europe in the 14th century. ... It is time we recognize that religious beliefs
have consequences. As a man believes, so he will act. ... perhaps it is time we
subjected our religious beliefs to the same standards of evidence we require
in every other sphere of our lives.
The last sentence does not make much sense to me. Beliefs and evidence are antagonisms.
Asking for reason and moral behaviour, as Harris implicit does, should lead him to one
simple sentence:
Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that
it should become a universal law. Link
The Â´beliefÂ´ system nearest to Kant is Buddhism. Its practices are reasoning only about
inner goods and evils, gods and daemons, and not on higher external deities. That, in my
view, disqualifies it as religion, even though Harris mentions it as such.
The historical records and current conflicts show various religions having evil
consequences. ShouldnÂ´t we find ways to overcome them or at least diminish their
ramifications?
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Billmon: All at Sea
While the barkeeper is out, there is still a lot to be talked about.
If you have a theme for a thread in mind, please let me know or send me your texts.
TrackBack
August 13, 2004
Paraskevidekatriaphobics
yuck - itÂ´s Friday, 13th - Open Thread ...
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Billmon: Saddam Lite
Billmon on a CIA asset.
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August 12, 2004
Billmon: The Death Candidate
The barkeeper on one good reason to vote Bush.
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Relativ Pain
CNNMoney.com currently names a "Second Day of Pain" on its frontpage. They of
course refer to falling stockprices and rising oil. But there was no pain for people who
were short and used the financial instruments available to bet on falling markets (like I
did).
But how can one counter the pain that comes up, when one of the most magical cities of
this world gets bombed and destructed in senseless fighting?
Would it help to short an index that reflects the values of:
the library of Al-Haidariyah, the library of Al-Ilmin in At-Tusi's university,
the library of Ash-Shushtariyah Husainiya, the library of Al-Qawam school,
the library of both schools of Al-Khalili Al-Kubra and Sughra, the library of
Shaikh Jafar Al-Kabir, the library of Shaikh Fakhrul Din At-Taraihi, the
library of Ar-Rabitatul Ilmiyah, the library of Abdul Aziz Al-Baghdadi, the
library of Muntada An-Nashr which has been moved to the jurisprudence
college which locates at Kufah street, the Public Library, the library of
Al-Burujirdi, the library of university of Najaf, the library of Shaikh
Mohammed Baqir Al-Isfahani, the library of Al-Aakhund, the library of
Ar-Rahim, the library of Bahrul Ulum, Sayyid Al-Hakim's library, the library
of Amirul Mu'minin (Commander of Faithful) (peace be upon him), the
library of Al-Ya'aqubi, the library of An-Nuri, the library of Al-Balaaqhi, the
library of Al-Khutaba'a, the library of Al-Malali (which is related to Aal
Al-Millah), the library of Shaikh Aaqa Buzurg At-Tehrani,
and many other libraries in Najaf city?
It doesnÂ´t feel likely to me today.
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August 11, 2004
Rove Trapped on Phoneline to Najaf
For a few moments sanity has -maybe-, -hopefully- resurfaced as US troops have halted
their planed total assault on Al SadrÂ´s fighters in Najaf. Any attack on NajafÂ´s shrine
of Imam Ali, where Al Sadr is trying to give himself the same cloud as Imam Ali himself,
would be the equivalent of the total destruction of the Vatican and killing of the Pope by
non Christians. US troops, NYT: says, would probably be eager to do this:
... American commanders are anxious to win a high-profile victory after their
efforts this spring to oust Mr. Sadr from Najaf's old city and take control of
Falluja ended in truces that did not achieve the American goals.
But maybe the Vice President of Iraq and the high priest of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,
had a delaying say in the issue, as maybe had some 1,300,000,000 Muslim who regard the
ongoing bombarding of the holy Najaf graveyard of 2,000,000 buried Shia by some 5,000
US troops as slightly out of decency.
On a second though, this may not be the real reason to take a break.
Chalabi being back in Iraq and his allied South Iraq Shia threatening succession seem also
not important enough to stop Rumsfeld to demonstrate his virility.
The reason for this reaction:
"An armored column idling at the main gate turned around and went back
into the camp, and commanders said planning for the offensive had been
extended.(WaPo)
looks more likely to be based on this threat of action:
"If the U.S. forces attacked Najaf tonight, we will blow up the oil pipelines,"
Sheikh Asaad al-Basri, the leader of the Mehdi militia loyal in the southern
city of Basra, told Reuters.
Somebody may be calculating the advantage of the publicity of a decisive victory against
Al Sadr versus a hefty increase of the price at the pump. Could this be decisive at the
election booth?
How sensitive this theme is, can be seen on todayâ€™s action in the oil market:
Saudi Arabia sought to soothe oil markets Wednesday by saying it could
immediately pump an extra 1.3 million barrels of oil a day, an increase of 1.5
percent in global output. link
Some people panicked and sold their oil futures even though any marginal expert knows
that there is no way for the Saudis to increase production in the short term.
"If they were hoping to break the back of the rally with just that, it's not going
to come to fruition," said John Kilduff, senior vice president of the energy
risk management group at Fimat USA Inc. (link)
After the news above hit the tickers, Light Sweet Crude dropped from $44.quite-high to
$43.medium within a few minutes - and some hedge funds lost some millions of Dollars
on this move.
Just a few minutes later:
US commercial crude oil and gasoline inventories drained lower last week,
according to the latest government survey.link
hit the ticker tapes.
The person who called Riyadh to get the Saudi quote before the official US government
survey hit the tape did get the wanted reaction: Light Sweet Cude Oil did not break the
$45 barrier today!
(And if he/she is somehow competent, his/her hedges did a 50% jump UP).
Unfortunately, there is yet no line between RoveÂ´s office in the White House and Al
SadrÂ´s headquarter in Iman AliÂ´s shrine, so coordination for the next slump/rise cycle
will take some time and the troops will have to wait to blow the dome of the holy shrine
until the required communication is established and any action is coordinated.
TrackBack
Billmon: French Connection
Billmon on the message of the supply siders.
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Thread Open
Your views and news off topic elsewhere ...
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Billmon: The Night Porter
Billmon about the new CEO of a Bush subsidary.
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Billmon: Moving the Bomb Line
The barkeeper on Greenspans Catch 22.
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August 10, 2004
Billmon: Plame Game
Billmon on a heat-seeking missile and its traget(s).
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August 09, 2004
Light Sweet Depression
Updated - (Chalabi) at end of post
Light Sweet Crude Oil was slightly below $44 per barrel this morning. There is currently
nearly no reserve capacity left on this planet and now this:
Iraq Stops South Oil Output After Militia Threat
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) Mon Aug 9, 2004 12:48 PM ET - Iraq stopped
oil production from its southern oil fields Monday after a Shi'ite Muslim
uprising led by radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr spread to the oil sector for the
first time since the late-June handover of power to Iraqi authorities.
An Iraqi oil official said militiamen from Sadr's Mehdi Army threatened to
sabotage operations by the state Southern Oil Company, based in Basra city.
"Pumping from the southern oil fields to storage tanks at Basra was
stopped today after threats made by Al-Sadr," the official told Reuters.
"It will remain stopped until the threat is over."
...
Iraq's southern fields have been supplying the Gulf Basra terminal with about
1.9 million barrels a day. Exports from Iraq's northern oil fields have
operated only sporadically since the U.S. occupation last year and remain
closed after a series of attacks on the main northern export pipeline from the
Kirkuk fields.
Now it will be proven by Al Sadr and others that oil is the most effective weapon against
the US. Others will recognize this too (Venezuelan recall referendum?). Can anyone
expect this threat to end anytime soon?
What may follow now economically? Here are my â‚¬ 0.02:
- Light Sweet Crude Oil: (far) above $50/bl
- Fed: will not hike rates tomorrow
- Treasuries: will rally
- Stocks: will fall
- US economy: will grind to a halt
- Prices: will rise fast
- US$: down (maybe after a short rally)
- Worst case: stagnation and inflation, given some time developing into hyperinflation,
loss of confidence in the US$, US economy crashing into a deflationary depression, others
follow.
CHOAM Economic Analysis of Materiel Flow Patterns says:
Melange is the financial crux of CHOAM activities. Without this spice, Bene
Gesserit Reverend Mothers could not perform feats of observation and
human control, Guild Navigators could not see safe pathways across space,
and billions of Imerial citizens would die of addictive withdrawal. Any
simpleton knows that such dependence upon a single commodity leads to
abuse. We are all at risk.
The Preacher at Arrakeen minds
This is the fallacy of power: ultimately it is effective only in an absolute, a
limited universe. But the basic lesson of our relativistic universe is that things
change. Any power must always meet a greater power.
Update - 3:58 PM
The stop of the Iraqi oil flowing to Basra seems to have a more sinister background than
threats by Al Sadr. As Nemo pointed out in the last open thread, Chalabi is pulling the
strings.
When NeoCon darling Achmed Chalabi came back to Iraq after the invasion, a gang of
US trained thugs guarded him. Later these men were "integrated" into the security forces
of ERINYS, the British company that has the contract to guard all Iraqi oil installations.
ERINYS is connected with Chalabis INC organization and reportedly Chalabi was paid $2
million for his helpful recommendations on the contract. Chalabis nephew Salem was
hired as a lawyer by ERINYS as were thousands of foreign "security trainer" mercenaries.
Yesterday the CIA asset Prime Minister Iyad Allawi issued arrest warrants for NeoCon
asset Chalabi and for his nephew. Today the Flow Of Spice was stopped because
militiamen from Sadr's Mehdi Army threatened to sabotage operations by the state
Southern Oil Company.
Maybe the guards of the Iraqi oil assets could step up the security again and hinder
sabotage, if ... and if ... and if... .
Wolfowitz and Negroponte must be negotiating at each others throat by now, while
Secretary John Snow prepares to distribute Prozac.
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Billmon: Burning Down the House
The barkeeper on the actions of the "Department of Reelection".
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August 08, 2004
Treason
Juan Cole writes:
The story of how the Bush administration prematurely outed Muhammad
Naeem Noor Khan, a double agent working for Pakistan against al-Qaeda,
has finally hit cable television news. MSNBC picked up the story on
Saturday.
On Sunday at around 12:30 pm, Wolf Blitzer's show referred to it. New York
Senator Charles Schumer criticized the Bush administration for revealing
Khan's name. He noted the annoyance of British Home Minister Blunkett
(see below) and Pakistani Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat with the
Americans for blowing Khan's cover. He said Hayat complained that if
Khan's name had not been reveaeled to the New York Times by the Bush
administration, he might well have provided information that would have led
to the capture of Usamah Bin Laden himself!
Blitzer then revealed that he had discussed the Khan case with US National
Security Adviser Condaleeza Rice on background. He reported that she had
admitted that the Bush administration had in fact revealed Khan's name to the
press. She said she did not know if Khan was a double agent working for the
Pakistani government. (!!!)
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Not Sealed Fine Twisted Cord II
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August 07, 2004
Billmon: Ain't Too Proud to Beg
An aging political junky is asking his readers for a favor.
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Billmon: Half Cocked
Billmon asks: Will coincidences ever cease?
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Billmon: Don't Shoot Him, ...
The barkeeper says: "Don't Shoot Him, He's Just the Piano Player".
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August 06, 2004
Billmon: Out of the Blue
Some numbers do have consequences.
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News, thoughts and discussions ...
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Billmon: MurphyÂ´s Law
The barkeeper on Shrub and economy problems.
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Billmon: Dead Fox Bounce
The barkeeper on a poll bounce.
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August 05, 2004
Billmon: Freudian Slip
Billmon on a politician accidentally telling the truth.
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"I want to Guard Your Dreams and Visions"
The Boss has an OpEd in the NYT: Chords for Change
...
Like many others, in the aftermath of 9/11, I felt the country's unity. I don't
remember anything quite like it. I supported the decision to enter Afghanistan
and I hoped that the seriousness of the times would bring forth strength,
humility and wisdom in our leaders. Instead, we dived headlong into an
unnecessary war in Iraq, offering up the lives of our young men and women
under circumstances that are now discredited. We ran record deficits, while
simultaneously cutting and squeezing services like afterschool programs. We
granted tax cuts to the richest 1 percent (corporate bigwigs, well-to-do guitar
players), increasing the division of wealth that threatens to destroy our social
contract with one another and render mute the promise of "one nation
indivisible."
It is through the truthful exercising of the best of human qualities - respect for
others, honesty about ourselves, faith in our ideals - that we come to life in
God's eyes. It is how our soul, as a nation and as individuals, is revealed. Our
American government has strayed too far from American values. It is time to
move forward. The country we carry in our hearts is waiting.
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August 04, 2004
Billmon: Where Was Dick?
The bartender in search of the VP.
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ItÂ´s the Oil Price, Stupit
Oil expected to hit $50 US
Calgary Sun
Consumer Spending Drop Largest in 3 Years
Forbes
Year over year US inflation rate (CPI-U) 2004: Jan 1.9%, Feb 1.7%, Mar 1.7%, Apr 2.3%,
May 3.1%, Jun 3.3%
"Going into the 1992 campaign, then-President George H. W. Bush had poll
ratings of 90 percent in the wake of the 1991 Persian Gulf War. But he lost
the election to a former Arkansas governor, Bill Clinton, who built his
campaign around this mantra: "It's the economy, stupid." In a Gallup Poll
conducted only a month before the election, Americans by 3 to 1 said they
trusted Bush more than Clinton on international affairs. But on which
candidate they preferred to manage the economy, they gave Clinton a huge
advantage.
St.Petersburg Times, April 2003
ShouldnÂ´t Kerwards hammer these points?
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August 03, 2004
Open To All Topics
A fresh one ...
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Billmon: An Amazing Series of Coincidences
The bartender on coincidental terror alarms. Here is virtual space to comment.
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August 02, 2004
Rabbit Stew
In Little Town people love to eat rabbit stew. Unfortunately rabbits are rare. In bad
weather the hunters can not go hunting. In some years there are even hardly any rabbits to
hunt. To eat rabbits is expensive. Only a few people can afford rabbit stew.
On Mellow Island people are poor, but some have great ideas. They fence off some land
and start to foster rabbits on the new pasture. They butcher the grown up rabbits, freeze
them and then scull them over the waters to Little Town.
People in Little Town are happy now. Some haul the rabbits off the boats, some cart them
to town. New taverns open up and cater rabbits in tasty meals. Rabbits are cheaper now
and can be bought all the year round.
Everybody is happy - the poor of Mellow Island, the people from Little Town - maybe
even the rabbits. Only the hunters are grumbling. They walk in to the mayor and
complain. "Those rabbits from Mellow Island are too cheap. We donÂ´t want to go
hunting for such low prices. They are cheating on us." And they put a little oil on the
mayorâ€™s palm.
The mayor likes the hunters and understands. He issues a new decree:
"Rabbits from Mellow Island are too cheap! From now on, everyone
who pays one shilling for a Mellow Island frozen rabbit also has to
administer one shilling to our poor hunters. These are honest men like
me and we have to promote their valuable trade."
The price for rabbits doubles. Only a few people can afford rabbit stew now. The taverns
stop serving rabbit meals, some close shop. No frozen rabbits are offloaded at the shore
anymore. The cart pushers start looking for new occupations. People on Mellow Island are
poor again. Only the hunters are happy. And the mayor washes his hands.
A young rabbit - Part of the storyline - The hunters - The tavern owners and cart pushers - The mayors
findings one and two - The unhappy people from Mellow Island one, two and three - Who gets the extra
money - Some (libertarian) economic background
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August 01, 2004
Billmon: What Goes Around
The barkeeper comments on the parties election strategies.
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Moon of Alabama: Flip Flop (Re: Goalposts)
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Thread Open | Main | Imagine the Reaction to This »
August 31, 2004
Flip Flop (Re: Goalposts)
Are we getting confused here? Could this guy please make up his mind and stop changing
his opinion twice in 96 hours. Is he losing and will lose what you cannot lose, or is he
wining and will win what you cannot win? I donÂ´t get it, but this somehow feels like he is
flipping it and will flop.
August 31, 2004
Remarks by the President of the American Legion
In this different kind of war, we may never sit down at a peace table. But make
no mistake about it, we are winning, and we will win.
August 31, 2004
Press Gaggle by Scott Mcclellan
MR. McCLELLAN: I think that it's the President making it crystal clear that
not only are we winning it, but we will win it.
August 30, 2004
President Bush: â€œI don't think you can win it...."
August 28, 2004
...
ones of our troops that they will have the resources they need to fight and win
the war against the terrorists.
July 30, 2004
We have a clear vision on how to win the war on terror and bring peace to the
world.
May 3, 2004
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/flip_flop_re_go.html (1 von 10) [16.11.2004 18:44:23]
October 9, 2003
Posted by Bernhard on August 31, 2004 at 01:12 PM | Permalink
Comments
> I donÂ´t get it, but this somehow
> feels like he is flipping it and
> will flop.
DUCKSPEAK is what they call this.
ever hear of DUCKSPEAK ? eh ? looks like ya forgot to memorize 1984.
Posted by: name | August 31, 2004 02:09 PM
> I donÂ´t get it, but this somehow
> feels like he is flipping it and
> will flop.
DUCKSPEAK is what they call this.
ever hear of DUCKSPEAK ? eh ? looks like ya forgot to memorize 1984.
I'll try a reading of this thing, and it won't be true or false, merely speculative.... I notice,
first of all, that Bush, over the past week or so, has made some truth-bearing statements:
calling IOF a "catastrophic victory," for example, is not an exercise in rhetoric--it's not an
oxymoron, say, or a "coincidentia oppositorum". No, it's a statement of exact fact, like the
phrases "Pyrrhic victory" or "heroic surgery," all of which aim to say something
exceptional in a precise way. So, too, with the sentence "I don't think you can win it" (i.e.
"the war on terror"): I take this as the open acknowledgement of an indisputable fact--if
only because this isn't a war against an "enemy" that occupies a "front". Perhaps it isn't a
war at all--in which case, of course, it can't be won or lost (and whether it can even be
fought is an interesting question).
(more)
Posted by: alabama | August 31, 2004 07:37 PM
Granted that this may be so, why would Bush tell the truth at this time? I'm going to rule
out the idea that it's either a campaign stratagem or a diplomatic stratagem, because I don't
think it's a strategem at all. I think it's a response to two developments--first, to something
like an unbearable pressure, and second, to something like an opportunity to find some
relief from that pressure. The pressure, to my mind, would come from the devastating civil
war within the administration, and the opportunity to relieve it would come from the recent
arrival. on Bush's daily scene, of an interlocutor who's enabled him for the first time to
articulate these obvious truths--at his own pace, and with a minimum of blaming. I have no
idea who that person may be--Karen Hughes is an obvious candidate--but if such a person
exists, then the relief that Bush must feel from their confidential exchanges may well be
spilling over into his public comments....And if it is, then the conflictual pressure within the
Executive Branch must be truly overwhelming.
Yeah alabama I almost posted in the same direction today.
Glad I didn't because your perceptions are much more insightful.
But that won't stop me from chiming in on a tangent:
For the first time there has indeed been some truth-speaking and hasn't it been surrealistic
to see both the Ds and the Rs foaming from the mouth and jumping feverishly?
It is as if someone lit both camps' pants on fire.
Or-- as if the emperor finally noticed he was naked.
This ain't Andy Warhol anymore...this is a cartoon by Salvador Dali. Let's hope the
president gets back on script--else this country is going to suffer a nervous breakdown.
Posted by: koreyel | August 31, 2004 10:44 PM
Warblogging.com on the flip-flop:
Bush press secretary, August 31: "Not only are we winning it, but we will win it." â€” AP
"There are some out there that are intent on trying to create a false impression," McClellan
said. The press secretary had said the president only meant the war on terror won't be won
"in the conventional sense" with formal surrenders or treaties signed and insisted Bush's
statement was no departure from the past.
McClellan's defense of Bush's "flip-flop" seems to be the "nuance" defense. It's "Oh, yes,
but what he meant was really more nuanced than that."
This, remember, is Kerry's defense as well â€” and one that has been heartily dismissed by
the Bush Administration, the Bush Campaign, the Republican National Committee and the
delegates at the Republican National Convention.
So, is the war on terror winnable? Of course it is. Just not with Bush's policies.
Posted by: Pat | September 1, 2004 12:05 AM
Andrew Sullivan on the flip-flop:
"WINNING" THE WAR: Looking at the context of president Bush's remarks yesterday on
the Today Show does not undo the weird gaffe. Here's the conversation:
LAUER: You said to me a second ago, one of the things you'll lay out in your vision for the
next four years is how to go about winning the war on terror. That phrase strikes me a little
bit. Do you really think we can win this war of ter--on terror? For example, in the next four
years?
Pres. BUSH: I have never said we can win it in four years?
LAUER: No, I'm just saying, can we win it? Do you say that?
Pres. BUSH: I don't--I don't think we can win it. But I think you can create conditions so
that the--those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in part of the world, let's put it
that way. I have a two-pronged strategy. On the one hand is to find them before they hurt
us. And that's necessary. I'm telling you it's necessary.
The odd thing is that this really does sound like a parody of Kerry. And if Kerry had indeed
said that, we would be hearing nothing else for weeks. And indeed, every time I hear the
president talk extemporaneously about the war - his interview with Tim Russert last
February was a classic - he does seem to have almost no conceptual grasp of what he's
talking about. Back then, he seemed flummoxed by the very concept of a distinction
between a war of choice and a war of necessity. Now he seems to be parroting a Council on
Foreign Relations confab on the permanence of terrorism.
@Pat-So a pre-emtive theft of Kerry's message?....If I remember correctly, haven't they stolen the
other sides playbook in the past?
@ala and koreyl-- if you all are correct, by extension, could these statements be considered
an olive branch to those leading the palace coup?
Posted by: RossK | September 1, 2004 01:03 AM
If only there were time and inclination before the election to stir public debate about what
Bush was probably saying: Even if and when al Qaeda is brought to the level of
insignificance by our more serious efforts against it (and this must be endeavored) it is the
herald of a global Islamic insurgency that will not end with it. What to do, long-term, about
that insurgency and the sentiment that feeds it?
Bush says the answer is democratic reform of the Greater Middle East, of which Iraq and
Afghanistan are part.
This initiative's cost in blood and treasure, however, will be increasingly and
mind-boggling high, the committment itself interminable, and the hopeful assumptions
underlying it erected on very shaky ground.
It is our actions in and policies toward the Muslim world that must be re-examined. This is,
indeed, the message that OBL tried, and failed, to deliver. Without this re-examination,
there will be war for many generations - and it will flash with greater frequency here at
home.
Correction to above: It is the message OBL delivered, but there were, despite 3,000 lives
lost, few to take it seriously.
Ivan Eland at antiwar.com:
August 31, 2004
Bush's 'War on Terror': No Lack of Imagination
by Ivan Eland
According to one of the main findings of the 9/11 Commission, the U.S. governmentâ€™s
failure to anticipate the grave threat from al Qaeda prior to the September 11 attacks was a
failure of imagination. Since those attacks, however, the Bush administrationâ€™s broad
â€œwar on terrorâ€• has exhibited nothing but imagination.
To begin with, President Bush has the chimerical and dangerously naÃ¯ve notion that al
Qaeda attacks America because of its freedomsâ€”that is, the United States is attacked for
what it is and not what it does. All evidence is to the contrary. Both Western and Islamic
authorities on al Qaeda tell us that the group attacks the United States because of its foreign
policy toward the Moslem world. Osama bin Laden believes the U.S. militaryâ€™s
presence and actions in Islamic lands, as well as its support for corrupt governments there,
are tantamount to a modern day â€œcrusade.â€• President Bushâ€™s disastrous use of the
c-word to describe U.S. policy merely confirmed the obvious to many Moslems around the
world. Repeated polls of the Islamic world demonstrate that intense anti-U.S. hatred is
generated by U.S. foreign policy, not by U.S. culture, technology, or political and economic
freedoms. In fact, those latter characteristics of U.S. society are often admired in Moslem
lands.
The Bush administrationâ€™s immediate response to 9/11â€”invading Afghanistan,
removing the Taliban regime, and remaining to remake the countryâ€”has been widely
praised in the West. But on two separate occasions, instead of risking American casualties
by using U.S. Special Forces, the Bush administration imagined that the unreliable
Northern Alliance could round up al Qaeda fighters trying to escape from Afghanistan to
Pakistan. Osama bin Laden and other dangerous high-level members of al Qaeda escaped
and have not been rounded up in almost three years. Moreover, instead of hunting down the
terrorists, leaving, and threatening to return if Afghanistan again becomes a haven for al
Qaeda, the continuing American nation-building program in that countryâ€”as well as U.S.
support for an unrepresentative Afghan puppet governmentâ€”have fueled a resurgence of
al Qaeda and the Taliban. Both are conducting a defensive jihad against what they believe
is an infidel occupation of Islamic territory...
Pat, you said:
"It is our actions in and policies toward the Muslim world that must be re-examined."
Wow. Strong stuff, and I don't disagree.
But if I go back to the Bush quote, I wonder if this is isn't what is being hinted at, at least
tentatively.
Now, I'm not suggesting the Cabal could possibly do it properly (ie. they would probably
figure a propaganda blitz centered on 24/7 loops of the 700 Club translated into Arabic
would win hearts and minds). I just think that, cynically, the Rovians could have internal
poll data/focus group numbers which have led them to conclude that Swing voters want to
hear a more conciliatory message.
@RossK
I think Bush wants to bring attention to the foreign policy issue he is (naively, sincerely)
passionate about: greater Middle East reform - by the hand of the US.
It's a losing proposition (the reform, not the campaign tactic of bringing attention back to
it), but he owns it and Kerry can't reject it.
@RossK
Read Bush's interview by Limbaugh, available at the latter's website. That's where Bush'll
be coming from in the next eight weeks. Fighting for freedom for the oppressed, fighting
for freedom abroad to defend us at home, etc, etc.
RossK, just picture a meeting of Bush, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld. Powell, at this stage
of the game, can remain completely silent--he needn't say a word. Rumsfeld and Cheney
can say whatever they want, but mostly they'll want to get out of the room and continue
discussions with their lawyers about damage control. (Powell, when the meeting's over,
will get on the phone with Negroponte to discuss the fate of Iraq--how to spend all those
billions recently captured from the "nazis" in the Pentagon.) And Bush? Well, he's like a
kid in the middle of a bad divorce: he can give out those olive branches to everyone, and
say whatever he wants about war, just these guys will cetainly listen, but there's no
eye-contact, no handshake, and no pleasantry passed among them. Just call it a
"catastrophic success."
Posted by: alabama | September 1, 2004 02:55 AM
Sorry Pat, just can't make myself go to that deepest of dark places tonight, but I'll take your
word for it....the man must be getting a sore tongue, what with all the forks stuck in it at the
moment...
alabama -- So, when do we start seeing joint photo-ops of McCain and Powell? (or have I
missed them already)
@RossK
"Sorry Pat, just can't make myself go to that deepest of dark places tonight"
I hear ya. My husband, a Republican, prefers NPR to conservative talk radio.
Eventually, however, one has to engage and refute their ideas AS THEY THEMSELVES
present them.
@Pat
Exactly...they have failed to meet their OWN definition of success... (war on terror)...their
methodolgy has shown to be ineffective and counterproductive.
Posted by: anna missed | September 1, 2004 04:14 AM
And (to drive my point home) where are the architects and purveyors of this keystone plank
at the convention: Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Franks, Powell, Bremmer, Sanchez...if it was
working, they'd be up there.
Take them at their word - don't do their thinking for them - don't assume they don't mean
what they say - and go from there.
RossK, I'd be surprised if Powell stayed in government after January. I think he's fighting
his last fight--that he's taken it as far as he can. He certainly has no future in the Republican
Party. But McCain's a different animal. He's been out of uniform for thirty years, and he's a
seasoned, political civilian (hell, a survivor of the ancient S&L scandal!) But Powell--when
did he retire from military service? Ten years ago? This has to make a difference. McCain
probably chats with a civilian neo-cons like Wolfowitz. Powell would probably walk out of
the room before that could happened.
anna
And (to drive my point home) where are the architects and purveyors of this
keystone plank at the convention: Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Franks, Powell,
Bremmer, Sanchez...if it was working, they'd be up there.
On the nose! Thanks for this, I intend to pass it around a bit.
Posted by: Dan of Steele | September 1, 2004 12:10 PM
TNR's Peter Beinhart
09.01.04
EXPECT LESS: TNR crack reporter-researcher Marisa Katz has done a little research and
found an interesting thing about John McCain and Rudy Giuliani's speeches. Neither of
them, despite defending the war in Iraq in detail, mentioned the word "democracy." There
were plenty of references to "freedom" and some to governments that were "accountable."
But no mention of the signature phrase so central to Bush's vision of the war in Iraq, and
the war on terrorism in general. It's a testament to how much Republicans have tacitly
ratcheted down expectations for the Iraq war, even while claiming to believe in it more than
ever.
Posted by: Pat | September 1, 2004 12:21 PM
Anna and Dan, which of the platform's planks are you referring to? And wouldn't it be
against the law for General Sanchez to participate in a political convention? (I really don't
know the answer to either of these questions).
Posted by: alabama | September 1, 2004 12:24 PM
Alabama,
It certainly would not be appropriate for Gen Sanchez to speak at the RNC you are right
about that, whether it is legal or not I have no idea. The others certainly can should they
want to.
I can not speak for Anna Mist but do think he/she is referring to the "America is safer
because I invaded Iraq" plank.
Tommy Franks endorses Bush. Exerpt of interview at captainsquarters.com:
Q: General Franks, there has been a lot of criticism with some people saying that President
Bush did not have a plan to win the peace. Can you address that?
A: Sure. Of course he had a plan to win the peace. Of course he did. Of course the United
States had a plan to build the largest coalition the world has ever seen. And did it. Of
course the United States had a plan to lead a coalition to remove one of the most despotic
regimes we've seen in the last 100 years. Of course the United States of America has a plan
to lead the coalition that will permit and assist the Iraqi people in claiming a new Iraq for
themselves, a free Iraq. And all of that is going to take longer than a flash in the pan
associated with popping a balloon.
You guys OK now?
Q: On the Swiftboat controversy, when you were first asked about it -A: Yes. I'm still not -- I'm still not a big guy into hyperbole. I mean, I'm not a big guy into
hyperbole, on either end of the continuum. I think he had two issues, and I think Senator
McCain has pointed them out very well. You have situations that went on where the
Swiftboat guys were on down in Vietnam, I was in Vietnam, John McCain was in Vietnam,
John Kerry was in Vietnam, and the vets were in Vietnam. And I don't have anything to say
about that. On the other hand, my concern is what happened after Vietnam, after Senator
Kerry returned from Vietnam, and I may well have something to say about that...
@Dan of Steele
It would not be legal for Sanchez to campaign for anyone.
Ever watch the audience in a State of the Union speech? The heads of the military services
always have front row seats. They're the only ones who can't applaud or participate in a
standing ovation. They cannot give endorsement, or give the impression of endorsement.
Is the Franks excerpt for real? That link is to a grand strand resort. Just what is he rolling in
those cigars of his?
Posted by: b real | September 1, 2004 02:10 PM
Sorry, b real. The Franks interview is at captainsquartersblog.com.
Pat
Now that I think of it I do remember hearing that military cannot participate in political
rallies and the like while in uniform. I suppose a general is always in uniform so that would
exclude him. I do believe however it is a tradition for the military to attempt to stay clear of
partisan politics. This is happening less and less lately. I know for a fact that the
Republican party is promoted in the military and not always covertly. I know that Jim
Hightower was removed from AFN when he made critical remarks concerning Bush. I have
had commanders tell me that I had better vote Republican. I know people who dare not
express any view that is not glowingly pro Bush for fear of reprisal.
Paranoia, sure.
@Dan of Steele
"I know for a fact that the Republican party is promoted in the military and not always
covertly."
It certainly is not promoted BY the military as an institution. (There was a serious
crackdown on public criticism of the president during Clinton's tenure - public criticism
that included unkind bumber stickers and t-shirts.)
Any commander that coerces his troops into voting one way or another deserves to be
strung up by his toes - but this requires that someone actually register a formal complaint.
Dan, you bring back bad memories of the bullies, nut cases, and frustrated autocrats that
one does - or did, when I was in - run across in the Army.
It is, sometimes, an organization best appreciated from a comfortable distance.
A statement by Rove today is similar in tone and content to Bush's "clarification" of his "I
don't think you can win it" comment:
BUSH: It's a different type of war. We may never sit down at a peace table, but make no
mistake about it, we are winning and we will win," he said in a speech which repeated this
refrain four times. link
ROVE: This is going to be more like the conflict in Northern Ireland, where the Brits
fought terrorism, and there's no sort of peace accord with al-Qaida saying, 'We
surrender," link
It's officially a talking point. They're changing the definition of victory.
Posted by: Anon | September 2, 2004 12:20 AM
So Mr and Mrs and Meister Rovian want to be seen like the British in NIre?
Oy!
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« Thread Open | Main | Imagine the Reaction to This »
Moon of Alabama: Thread Open
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« George Bush == Andy Warhol? | Main | Flip Flop (Re: Goalposts) »
August 31, 2004
Thread Open
Use as you like ...
Posted by Bernhard on August 31, 2004 at 08:34 AM | Permalink
Comments
Several Killed in Israeli Bus Bombings
IÂ´m afraid Sharons answer will be terrible.
Posted by: b | August 31, 2004 08:38 AM
So much for the excuses of building the wall.
Posted by: Cloned Poster | August 31, 2004 09:03 AM
CP, your thinking moves in the wrong direction. The consequences of the bombing are
these:
a) The wall is not high enough (look at the great job the Chinese have done with theirs),
and
b) there must be a dead zone beginning one mile before the wall, and
c) all Palestinians must be forced to stay in their homes most of the time - on second
thoughts, make that all of the time.
VoilÃ - peace and safety. Simple...
Posted by: teuton | August 31, 2004 10:28 AM
Russia/Germany/France Summit.
NO BBC reporting at all?
Teuton - What's the German media saying?
Posted by: Cloned Poster | August 31, 2004 01:13 PM
@cp
Putin Defends Chechnya Policy at Talks
Sounds like a quite friendly meeting. A Russian, German and French talking English.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/thread_open_1.html (1 von 28) [16.11.2004 18:44:28]
Posted by: b | August 31, 2004 01:18 PM
CP, I've just seen it on the news and have read a bit about it. The TV-report was absolutely
nondescript (all three symbolically sitting down at a table). Terrorism is a main topic
(officially), and it was overshadowed / complemented by the car bomb in Moscow. My first
impression is that Schroeder particularly is trying to keep a very low profile about it ("don't
let it look like this is directed against the US"). "Move on, people, nothing to see here, no
new anti-US axis of semi-evil."
BTW, I see that Giuliani has scored at the repub convention by saying that "the Germans
set terrorists free" in 1972 (when a plane was hijacked, which he didn't say). Loud boos
from the convention members... Ah, it must feel so good to always have somebody you can
despise, provided it's not yourself. Don't look into the mirror, goppers.
Posted by: teuton | August 31, 2004 01:40 PM
Iraq news:
Iraqi Groups Claims It Killed Three Israelis
U.S. Troops Wounded in Iraq Near 7,000
Twelve Nepalese hostages murdered
MoD refuses plea for more Basra troops
Al-Sadr calls for end of fighting : US air raid kills 4 Iraqi civilians
Release of French hostages 'imminent' says Al-Arabiya TV
Cleric Moqtada al-Sadr will field candidates in Iraq's first elections and campaign on a
platform calling for the withdrawal of U.S. forces
14 killed, 135 injured in Iraq clashes
Israel to US: Now for Iran
Some pictures from last week in Najaf - we all have read the meme that Sadrs fighters are
the young and unruly from Baghdad slums - take a look:
Young Sadr fighter
Young Sadr supporters
Young Sadr fighter
Young fighter wounded
Young girl fighter
Young fighter
Very young fighter
Young fighter
Realy young Sadr fighter
Young fighter fighting
The picture are by G. friend of blogger Salam Pax
Can't post here.
This is my fourth attempt
Sharon to call out the wolves on his own people:
The cabinet also decided that the physical evacuation of settlers who refused to leave
would be carried out by the police, rather than the army. The tough, paramilitary border
police are expected to receive the assignment which will almost certainly involve clashes
with masses of demonstrators.
That should be interesting. We've seen a lot of arabs pitted against arabs on our big screens,
but not many jews versus jews.
I wonder if they will use bulldozers like they did against the Palestinians?
In the meawhile... I'd rather be windsurfing too...in fact... a wonderful sentiment: to hell
with this country, cowabunga!
GEN Barbara Fast's assumption of command at Huachuca has been put on hold.
Posted by: Pat | August 31, 2004 11:34 PM
From the NYT:
...Pentagon officials said in a statement on Friday that no one at the Defense Department
beyond Mr. Franklin was suspected of any wrongdoing. Neither Mr. Wolfowitz nor Mr.
Feith is regarded as having any involvement in the matter other than as potential witnesses
because of their familiarity with Mr. Franklin's work.
So far, no charges in the case have been brought, but behind the scenes government lawyers
prepared to make the first arrests by issuing a criminal complaint against one or more
figures in the case, government officials said on Monday.
A complaint is a relatively quick method of charging someone with a crime. The use of that
approach suggested that the government has decided to move quickly to resolve the legal
questions in the yearlong national security case rather than wait for indictments after a
grand jury investigation.
Mr. Franklin's legal status is unclear. The authorities believe that Mr. Franklin gave a draft
policy directive on Iran to officials from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or
Aipac, who then provided the information to Israeli intelligence.
Aipac and Israel have denied that they engaged in any wrongdoing. Efforts to contact Mr.
Franklin have been unsuccessful, but friends and associates have said he was a highly
ethical government employee with little access to senior policy makers who would never
have violated the law.
Mr. Franklin has been cooperating with the federal authorities and is thought to be
negotiating a deal with the government that could result in leniency in the form of reduced
charges in exchange for his information about other people in the case. It is not clear when
or even whether he will be charged in the case...
TPM exerpts from an article on the Franklin investigation in the Globe:
Richard Perle, a former assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration and
current adviser to the Pentagon, said the investigations are baseless and politically
motivated.
"It's pretty nasty, and unfortunately the administration doesn't seem to have it under
control," said Perle, calling on the administration to defend Feith more vigorously.
@Pat:
Thanks for the update.
Getting interesting.
I'm sure that there are numerous lawyers who would advise Mr. Franklin "Pro bono".
Posted by: | September 1, 2004 12:15 AM
George Will on Contemptuous Collaboration in Tuesday's WaPo:
President Bush's convention challenge is to tell voters, who already know America is at
war, how the parties differ. Last week he made it dismayingly clear that, in the parties'
contempt for the First Amendment, they don't.
Bush spokesman Scott McClellan cheerily reported Bush's vow to join John McCain in
trying to "shut down" what McClellan called -- nine times in four minutes -- "shadowy"
groups. He means citizens working quite publicly -- contributions to "527" organizations
can be scrutinized on the Internet -- to influence U.S. governance.
But the political class wants them silenced --"outlawed," Bush says -- because it considers
the political process its private property. And Bush, adopting the cringing posture so
prevalent in today's scramble to be seen as a victim, says, "I understand how Senator Kerry
feels -- I've been attacked by 527s too." Oh, well, then.
Bush, a supposed critic of the imperial judiciary, wants a court to order the Federal Election
Commission to, in McClellan's words, "shut down" all such groups. And if a compliant
court cannot be found, McClellan says Bush will try legislation. First try judicial fiat, then
legislation as a last resort. Ah, conservatism.
@ Pat:
When George Will says stuff like that, there's "Big Trouble in little China"; or something.
You've undobtedly read Pat B., Georgie Guyer, and Steve Chapman on similar subjects.
Posted by: | September 1, 2004 12:28 AM
I take that NYT article with a grain of salt. The investigation is an extremely puzzling one,
not least because Mr. Franklin makes an odd suspect.
...
Trouble's been brewing in the Republican Party for decades, mostly because the party
establishment, like that of the Democrats, follows broad, long-term a-partisan trends that
take shape at a higher level.
At al Jazeera:
Many arrested in Iran for nuclear spying
8/31/2004 3:25:00 PM GMT
Source: AFP
Iran has arrested dozens of spies, including several who passed classified information about
its nukes program to the country's enemies, Iranian Intelligence Minister Ali Yunesi said on
Tuesday.
"The Intelligence Ministry has arrested a number of spies that transferred Iran's nuclear
intelligence (abroad)," Yunesi was cited as saying by the official IRNA news agency, but
he did not say when the arrests had taken place.
The minister also said that many of those arrested were linked to the Iraq-based Iranian
opposition group; the People's Mujahideen Organization (MKO).
"The Monafeqin (hypocrites) played the main role in transferring the information," he said,
referring to the People's Mujahedeen, Iran's main armed opposition group based in Iraq.
Looks like we no longer need to be jealous of the American Dream!
Daring to dream - Europe is no utopia but, using Britain as a bridge, it can share its global
vision with the US
Posted by: Fran | September 1, 2004 02:55 AM
ACLU filled a brief against the patriot act but was prohibited to publish the filing
uncensored because of the patriot act. "The disclosure would pose a threat to national
security".
The governement demanded several parts to blackened out before publishing including this
one:
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act
under so vague a concept as the power to protect 'domestic security.' Given the
difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in
acting to protect that interest becomes apparent."
This is a direct quote out of supreme court decision. Its "disclosure would pose a threat to
national security"!
Background by ACLU
Posted by: b | September 1, 2004 03:03 AM
News from sovereign Iraq:
Leaders of the Mahdi Army, the rebel force led by the Shiite cleric Moktada
al-Sadr, and two well-placed Iraqi sources said an agreement had been reached
late Monday that called for the disarming of the rebel force and a halt in
American military operations in Sadr City.
Mahdi Army commanders and other Iraqi sources said Tuesday that Dr.
Allawi backed out of the agreement on Tuesday morning.
...
Mr. Nasiri said he had been told by one of the government's negotiators,
Qassim Daoud, the minister of state, that Dr. Allawi had objected to the
restrictions placed on Americans soldiers operating in the area. Under the
agreement, the Americans would be limited to performing reconstruction
work; anything more aggressive than that would require the permission of the
Iraqi government.
...
"He wants to humiliate Moktada," the source said of Dr. Allawi. "He needs a
victory."
...
"Allawi is a Baathist at heart, and he inherited all of his thoughts and behavior
from them," said a senior leader of an Iraqi political party. "He is like Saddam;
he has a smile on his face, but a gun in his hand to shoot you with - and he will
use it."
NYT: Talks to Disarm Shiites Collapse
b-The conclusions re: Allawi's intentions from the Filkins/Eckhold piece should be #1 in the
talking points for every Dem surrogate who goes anywhere within 50 green rooms of a
Caballarian Shrieker between now and Nov 2nd.
For it all to come down to this after all that has been spent (in human as well as monetary
terms) is just sickening.
This kind of stuff must be used, full throttle to make sure that no Hannity, Limbaugh,
O'Reilly or Coulter can ever get away with playing the 'Saddam had to be removed because
he was a bad guy' trump card ever again.
Juan Cole does not expect any serious outcome from the current FBI investigation on Israel
spying against the US. He sees parallels:
One Iran-Contra figure, who lied to Congress, now serves in the National
Security Council as the person in charge of the Israeli-Palestine issue. That is
Elliot Abrams, who was pardoned by Bush the elder and now sets White
House policy on among the more important issues affecting US relations with
the Muslim world. Bush may as well have just appointed Ariel Sharon to
advise him on how to deal with Ariel Sharon (though to be fair, Sharon is
probably more pragmatic than and to the left of Abrams).
Moreover, if Sharon and AIPAC decide that they need to US government to
take military action against Iran, it is likely that the US government will do so.
Link
Also at JuanÂ´s site a guest editorial by Charles Smith
In sum, the Bush administration is quietly abandoning the Road Map and the
possibility of a Palestinian state despite denials to the contrary. It is doing so to
fulfill Likud Revisionist goals of an Israeli state extending from the
Mediterranean to the Jordan River, goals shared by Christian evangelicals who
are a key part of Bushâ€™s reelection strategy. The U.S. press has ignored the
implications of these developments which the administration has sought to
obfuscate, proclaiming its adherence to the Road Map while referring to
ongoing Israeli settlement expansion as â€œunhelpful.â€•
Washington Post on lobbying at the GOP convention. In short: The lobbyists are running
the GOP and the convention:
Industry Advocates Play Key Convention Roles
While more prominent lobbyists such as Isakowitz and Gates have been given
high-profile assignments at the GOP convention, about 100 others are doing
the grunt work. These men and women make sure speakers get on and off the
podium on schedule. They escort elected officials and their families to the
convention floor. They run the floor whip operation, directing delegates
through all their duties, from waving placards to attending platform committee
meetings. They also served as senior staffers for the committee that wrote the
party platform.
Language is power!
More on Korzybski, by Robert Anton Wilson
TOWARD UNDERSTANDING E -PRIME
I really believe if this information were studied and taught we would have more sane
society, thanks kate...
Posted by: Uncle $cam | September 1, 2004 04:53 AM
Our worst fears:
By entering a 2-digit code in a hidden location, a second set of votes is created in the
Diebold central tabulator, a program installed in 1,000 locations, which controls both paper
ballots and touch-screens, each system handling up to a million votes at a time.
OUR WORST FEARS, at black box voting
Barcelona has a Placa George Orwell - with video surveillance. Photo
But at least itÂ´s announced.
A propos of current events I recommend this piece, (in PDF format) from the General
Semantics site:
War Words and Tired Symbols
Posted by: Kate_Storm | September 1, 2004 07:52 AM
Jerusalem Post
"The excitement is palpable. You can almost feel it in the air. The dictators of the Arab
world just can't wait for George W. Bush to lose the US presidential election in November.
Gripped with fear as they watch Bush's democratic experiment in Iraq take shape, the
tyrants and despots of the Middle East are pinning their hopes on Democratic challenger
John Kerry to prevail.
After all, the last thing they want to see is a second-term Bush determined to reform the
region, a development that would threaten their grip on power and stymie their efforts to
obtain more lethal types of weaponry.
And so the rhetoric in the Arab world is heating up, pointing to a real desire to see the US
president go down in defeat."
Posted by: Cloned Poster | September 1, 2004 09:10 AM
@Kate Storm:
I can see what you're saying, but I can't hear you too well.
A Deaf Russian "Rocker" and his Grand Daughter
An interesting read, really.
Posted by: Josey Wales | September 1, 2004 09:20 AM
REPORT OF INVESTIGATION BY THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE OF THE BOARD OF
DIRECTORS OF HOLLINGER INTERNATIONAL INC.
The Special Committee believes that Perleâ€™s repeated failure to read,
evaluate, discuss or attempt to understand the Executive Committee Consents
before signing them evidences a complete absence of good faith, a breach of
loyalty and an abject failure to fulfill his fiduciary duties as an Executive
Committee member. Such conduct subjects him to personal liability for
breaching his duty of good faith.
Perleâ€™s misconduct also has duty of loyalty implications. Throughout
Perleâ€™s tenure as an Executive Committee member, he was dependent on
Black and Radler for his compensation as a Hollinger Digital officer. His
service to them paid off particularly handsomely in 2000. In that year, as
detailed below, he received almost $3 million in payments under the Digital
Incentive Plan, in addition to the hundreds of thousands of dollars he was
already receiving in salary, â€œretainer,â€• directorsâ€™ fees, and stock
options. Perle clearly had a motive to abdicate his fiduciary duties as an
Executive Committee member so as to accommodate the persons responsible
for his huge Hollinger compensation, Black and Radler.
...
The Special Committee believes that Hollinger is entitled to recoup Perleâ€™s
Digital Incentive Plan bonus payments. Perle was a faithless fiduciary as an
Executive Committee member and, thus under Delaware law, should not be
allowed to retain any of his Hollinger compensation, including his Digital
Incentive Plan bonuses, salary and directorsâ€™ fees. The Special Committee
intends to pursue a recovery from Perle, either consensually or through
litigation.
A touch of paranoia in my thinking? The Republicans have just taken their complaint
against the FEC to court. If they lose a close election, I can see them launching a legal
action to disqualify the vote on the grounds that the 527s wrecked the electoral process. It
wouldn't surprise me if they did this regardless of any court action, taken or pending, on
their FEC complaint,, and it also wouldn't surprise me if they took it all the way to the
Supreme Court.
What they did in 2000 defines them forever, in my view.
b-As a north of 49er, I apologize profusely for the actions of chief Hollinger fraudster Conrad
Black, who also must take a large portion of the blame for initially unleashing the
sycophancy of David Frum on the, now much less, civilized world.
Posted by: RossK | September 1, 2004 12:07 PM
It's all tumbling down. (ref. b's Hollinger report above ot 10:36) Perle has a slithery way of
escaping these things tho; I think he has the goods on a lot of important people, like the VP
for one..Watching this one with interest.
Here's ome you really can't miss. Ruppert gets before the Commonwealth Club last night
and openly directly accuses Dick Cheney of orchestrating the 9/11 mass murder. He
presents evidence. Excellent. In FTW if the link below fails.
FTW
Still working on the linking thing. See if it works this time.
Posted by: rapt | September 1, 2004 12:38 PM
Kristof has a quick bright piece today:
Indeed, the only person who seems to provide Shakespeare's kings with sound advice is the
court fool, who cannot be punished for saying unpalatable truths because jesting is his job.
I urge Mr. Bush to appoint a White House fool.
I'd like to recommend Ralph Nader to the position.
A motley tunic befits him.
Posted by: koreyel | September 1, 2004 12:45 PM
It's a harsh world out there, isn't it? From the Washington Times:
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published September 1, 2004
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------A U.S. military intelligence report says that followers of radical Shi'ite cleric Sheik
Muqtada al-Sadr imprisoned, killed and mutilated Iraqis who opposed his insurrection.
American intelligence officers are now investigating in the town of Najaf, the site of Sheik
al-Sadr's bloody standoff with coalition forces. A U.S. military officer told The Washington
Times that the command recently acquired photos of 15 to 20 mutilated bodies that appear
to be Iraqis lying in a courtyard.
A written U.S. intelligence report, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington
Times, puts the body count much higher, based on an Iraqi informant, some of whose
information was confirmed by local police.
The report said that after last week's truce, Iraqi forces moved into buildings held by the
radical cleric's Mahdi's Army militia and found the bodies.
"Inside the court building, Iraqi police found approximately 200 mutilated bodies taken by
the Moqtada militia for speaking out against Moqtada al Sadr," said the intelligence report
sent to the Pentagon and stamped "secret."
"Some of the prisoners had eyes and ears drilled out and others had their limbs and heads
cut off. Some males had genitals cut off and shoved in their mouths. There was evidence of
rape to men, women and children," according to the report.
The senior officer, who asked to remain anonymous, said that the number of bodies found
is much less than 200. The source said that while it appears certain that the bodies exist, the
circumstances of when and where the people were killed, and by whom, remained unknown
yesterday.
"We don't have a complete picture of where they came from," the officer said. "We're
trying to uncover what really happened before we are able to release information."
@Pat
It was reported by AFP at the end of the seige that "Iraqi" police carried bodies from the
street into shrine.
Propaganda pure and simple, both sides play it and only one side reports it in the Western
media.
Posted by: Cloned Poster | September 1, 2004 02:50 PM
They did it!
Syria the next target?
Propaganda pure and simple, both sides play it and only one side reports it in the Western
media.
Amen.
Although...also...let's face it--> Allawi/al Sadr/Hussein/Chalabi--> wtf does it matter to
me?
I am pissed that my government let itself get dragged into this Mid East Hell.
That was the biggest jerk-mistake ever made by a president--superceding even that of
Vietnam.
The only roll the US should have ever have played in that region was as peace-maker/
peace-mediator.
Although if you wanted to throw 200 billion at the problem then here is a suggestion: create
a Palestinian state and help them onto their economic feet.
Instead...jerk-bush has plunged our boot soldiers right into the lion's gaping mouth. And
sprayed the region with cluster bombs. As if that ever solved anything in the unholy land.
And half my idiot countryman applaud...
Go figure.
@koreyel
"Although if you wanted to throw 200 billion at the problem then here is a suggestion:
create a Palestinian state and help them onto their economic feet."
What if none of the regional leaders really want an independent Palestinian state?
@ rapt
Stepping out of Babylon on kpfa is currently playing an interview from yesterday w/
Ruppert before his speech to the Commonwealth. It should be archived later here.
Pat if that is the case than the situation is beyond redemption.
And even more reason not to plunge our country's nose into the middle of that suppurating
gash of humanity.
The old saying is "touch the devil and you can't let go."
Bush didn't just touch the devil...he stripped our country naked and belly dived us into the
rancid heart of this festering morass.
We are up to our knees in the boiling mud and the stinking ooze is sucking us deeper.
At the convention Bush 41 made some comments along the lines of "who would dare think
the world is not safer with Saddam gone? And who would dare hope he is still in power?"
Well allow me to stand up and raise my hand high.
Damn straight.
I wish my country never stepped foot into Iraq, and that Saddam was still in power and
writing his dirty little novels.
The draft resolution, obtained by The Associated Press, calls for "the strict
respect of Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political
independence."
It "demands that Syrian forces withdraw without delay from Lebanon" and
declares the Security Council's "support for a free and fair electoral process in
Lebanon's upcoming presidential election conducted according to Lebanese
constitutional rules devised without foreign interference or influence."
Sometimes I am dumbfounded at the nerve and blatant hypocrisy of the US gummint. Just
imagine the very same resolution with Iraq substituting Lebanon and US instead of Syria.
"I wish my country never stepped foot into Iraq, and that Saddam was still in power and
writing his dirty little novels."
USA stepped into Israel a long time ago Koreyel........and the Brits have never left a colony
without Civil War (aside from Tanzania maybe?)
UN whores Dan of Steele.
France are backing the US resolution re Lebanon.
They want the Beirut playground back.
The guys who had the shittiest mission on 9-11 endorse the guy who stayed away:
New York firefighters to endorse Bush
MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN
Associated Press Writer
NEW YORK (AP) _ The union representing the city's 8,600 firefighters will endorse
President Bush Wednesday night at a social club in Queens, bolstering the Bush campaign's
efforts to focus the nation's attention on the president's leadership following the Sept. 11
attacks.
Uniformed Firefighters Association president Steve Cassidy said he will announce the
union's endorsement as he stands beside Bush at the Italian Charities of America hall in
Elmhurst. Cassidy and Bush will share a meal of pizza and sodas with about 100
firefighters and watch Vice President Dick Cheney's address to the Republican National
Convention, Cassidy said.
``The reason we're supporting President Bush is leadership,'' Cassidy said. ``Post-9/11 we
needed someone who had the courage and the integrity to do what was right for this
country. The president said he would take the fight to the terrorists and he has done that.''
"Italian Charities of America"
Mafia laundry?
@koreyel
I am pissed that my government let itself get
dragged into this Mid East Hell.
It wasnÂ´t dragged in. It deliberately -and with support of the US majority- interferes with
the ME for the last 60 some years. Sawing wind...
Posted by: b | September 1, 2004 04:52 PM
I've just seen excerpts of Arnold and Bush's women at the repub convention - it is beyond
belief. How can anybody take such a meaningless circus show seriously? A particularly
ruthless, over-emotionalized exploitation of the weak-minded. And of course, the mob goes
completely bonkers. Children's television. A good portion of the most powerful people on
earth is supposed to fall for that? Chilling.
Posted by: teuton | September 1, 2004 05:53 PM
Yeah I know the US has been in the ME for 60 years.
And various US administrations have been in Venezeula and Guatamela and Honduras and
etc. etc. doing their nefarious little republican deeds.
It doesn't make me happy.
But there is a marked difference between playing dirty pool off the media map and rolling
tanks in Baghdad.
We got tanks in Baghdad, Karbala, and Basra.
If anthing....that shows that Osama bin Laden has at least 50 more points on his IQ score
than Bush.
Osama is the fisherman, and Bush took the hook.
And there went my country....link, hook, and sinker.
I mean really...if you are going to play geopolitics...at least show some shrewd intelligence.
Please.
@Teuton
"A good portion of the most powerful people on earth is supposed to fall for that?"
They did at the Adolf rallies............ the history book on the shelf is always repeating
itself...........Waterloo
"at least show some shrewd intelligence."
Corruption is not intelligent...........just pure pigs at the trough............
Can someone tell me why Sen. Zell Miller is still considered a democrat????
Good lord...
If I was chair of the democratic party that asshole would be giving his speech with two
black eyes and a nose bleed.
And no one would be calling him a democrat anymore.
Man...
CP, I know about the Adolf rallies. But the Germans at the time were exposed to the
seductive power of the new mass media for the first time in history. (That's not an excuse,
of course.) If the people of the US are not media-savvy, I don't know who could be; I mean,
they have had it longer and in higher doses than anyone else. But then, they have got the
highest media concentration... Springsteen's "50 Channels and Nothing On" comes to mind.
Although I should have become used to it by now, I found the convention excerpts I saw
infuriating in all their daft self-complacency.
Posted by: teuton | September 1, 2004 07:22 PM
@Teuton:
Forget about "Adolf Rallies"; Everyone loves to play with historical analogies to the
present situation in America. And all you Germans, French, Russians,Brits, Americans
please stop apologising for what happened when you were not even born.
And in America, right now Teuton, it's really about "50 channels and nothing on".
Posted by: Walter Crankcase | September 1, 2004 09:16 PM
Re: Zell Miller.
I forgot to mention Zell would be snaggletoothed, walking with a limp, and have his arm in
a sling-- AND his mistress would be all over the telly saying how lousy he is in bed.
What?
You say he doesn't have a mistress?
Should that matter?
You want ethics in American politics? Okay here is the golden rule:
Do unto republicans as they would do unto you.
Tomorrow I go back to being an independent in my voter registration.
I refuse to belong to a party of wimps that seems to enjoy being slapped around by
republican brutes.
Suggestion: Let's stop calling them Rs and Ds or repugs and dims. From now on I suggest:
Sadists and Masochists.
Re: Zell Miller
As one convention-goer put it, "Miller tore off Kerry's arms and then proceeded to beat him
with them." Yeah, I'd say that's about right. (Believe it or not, the speech was toned down
somewhat from the original draft, at the urging of convention organizers.) Then Cheney
came on to calmly, matter-of-factly finish the job.
It'll be a very interesting eight weeks - and probably one helluva night in November - won't
it?
I've been trying to find good political websites for keeping track of the horse race and one
of the better ones I've seen is the non-partisan Cook Political Report (cookpolitical.com). It
contains, among other things, an electoral college scorecard and, for those of us who need
to be reminded where the action's really at this time around, a good article on the critical
states:
The Magic Formula: Two out of Three?
By Charlie Cook
Â© National Journal
September 1, 2004
Matthew Dowd, the chief Bush campaign strategist, made the argument on Monday that
whichever presidential candidate wins two out of a crucial three states -- Florida, Ohio, and
Pennsylvania -- will probably be the next president. The next day, without knowing about
Dowd's prediction, former Clinton White House Political Director Doug Sosnik made the
very same forecast.
While there are certainly other important battleground states, Dowd and Sosnik are likely to
be right. The electoral votes in Florida (27), Ohio (20), and Pennsylvania (21) total 68,
plenty more than the 52 electoral votes in the seven other states that can be considered
toss-ups right now: Iowa (7), Minnesota (10), Missouri (11), Nevada (5), New Hampshire
(4), New Mexico (5), and Wisconsin (10).
Each state tells a somewhat different story. For example, in Pennsylvania, an increasingly
Democratic-leaning state, President Bush was doing surprisingly well for a long time; then,
about two months ago, John Kerry started pulling up and away. But in the past three weeks,
Bush has pulled back up to a position of being basically even with Kerry, give or take a
point or two.
In Ohio, Kerry was up a couple of points. Today, Bush is probably up by a point or two -pretty amazing, given the economic beating that state has taken over the past few years.
The state remains extremely close, with the economy and jobs the No. 1 issue.
In Florida, the economy has been fine; demographics are giving the Republicans fits.
Today, Florida has more Democratic-voting Puerto Ricans and Mexican-Americans than it
has Republican-voting Cuban-Americans. Florida, which was trending toward the GOP so
reliably in the 1980s and early 1990s, is now headed back toward even-steven...
"I wish my country never stepped foot into Iraq, and that Saddam was still in power and
writing his dirty little novels."
Saddam is working diligently on his fifth novel. The provisional title is The Great
Awakening.
I'm not kidding.
Not much consolation, I know, koreyel.
Posted by: Blackie | September 2, 2004 06:38 AM
Fafnir says
- Approaching Your Republican! Do not be scared or nervous when you see a
Republican. He is much more scared of you than you are of him!
Communicate with large friendly motions an giant puppets. Your Republican
will see you are not a threat an should relax momentarily. Then you can earn
his trust with an offering of food like pickles or nuts or baby's blood!
This storm looks huge.
U.N.: S.Korea Enriched Uranium Close to Bomb Fuel
ThatÂ´s an "S" like in "South".
The IAEA said in a statement that Seoul told the agency "these activities were
carried out without the government's knowledge at a nuclear site in Korea in
2000."
At the same time, the diplomat said the scientists were government employees
working at a government-run facility.
Who will scream for sanctions against South Korea now?
In re: storms.
Effects of Gaston (11+ inches of rain in 10 hours) + 2 day power outage + 2' of water in
basement + too many books/nature abhors a void = a box of special books drowned.
Question to bookworms: Can I salvage them? How?
:-(
Posted by: beq | September 2, 2004 08:41 AM
Those folks were on drugs. Maybe on the same drug--viz. a dead hall with a dead audience
(fitfully animated, but still dead)--but assisted as well by some personal psychotropic
attention: Laura was clearly on Prozac, Miller on speed (or maybe an overdose of
ritalin--it's one and the same), and Cheney on xanax. I've used them all, so I speak as
someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about.....And why dope up like this? Well,
the parties were probably fun--not to mention the whores and all that--but the mood in the
tomb has been, by all report, pure terror: one little slip and you lose your right hand, or the
fifth finger, anyway, of your right hand. A peculiar hell--the mirror-image of what we
thought was "Baghdad" eighteen months ago.....
Watch Zell Miller with Matthews yesterday - he really, really lost it: The Link is down half
the page
Matthews:
"IÂ´m wondering if you thinks tonights speech and advertisements that show
people like Max Cleland standing next to Sadaam Hussein are helping bring
this country together?"
Miller:
"That didnÂ´t have anything to do with Max Clelands defeat. WeÂ´ve already,
weÂ´ve already beat that dog to death"
Matthews:
"Well maybe the war did that too."
Those silly compassionate repubs... I'm looking forward to some good critical analyses of
the mindf*cking that went on last night. Lies, Hypocrisy and Fascism, oh my. The "W"
signs were a stand-in for swastikas, I suppose.
Posted by: b real | September 2, 2004 10:25 AM
@alabama
I've been chuckling all morning imagining Knight-Ridder et al. publishing your analysis on
its various op-ed sections across the country.
I keep seeing jaws dropping and spit-takes over breakfast tables everywhere...
I'd call your attempt an 'editorial lobotomy', an attempt at dezombiefication as we head into
yet another Night of the Living Dead.
As all that is missing from this prolonged republican rancor/rapture film...is the accidental
shooting of a black guy at the end of the flick.
Anybody know if these drugged hoodlums are planning some sacrifices after the curtain
goes down?
Posted by: koreyel | September 2, 2004 11:34 AM
@Kate Storm
thanks for the" war words" link...wasn't there a linguist named Worf who had a theory that
said that language defines the culture, rather than the other way around? If so.....we are
deep in it.....or should i say, we have been out flanked by by our own reconnaissance, and
unleashed a broadside of friendly fire upon our own position.
Posted by: anna missed | September 2, 2004 01:26 PM
@beq 8:41
How Do I Dry Wet Books?
Koreyel, whatever else may be going on in the minds of Miller and Cheney, one thing
comes through very clearly: these men don't like to lose, and don't like to be linked to
losers. They've made careers--and they both said this--of being too smart to lose. But
another thing also came through: both men, each in his own way, is rather frightened at the
present moment. And why? Because they're backing a loser. Now it's a fact that losers are
meant to lose--elections, for example--especially when they run against winners--and so the
message we got was this: "yes, we're backing a loser, and no, your winner won't win".
Which, if it happens (and it certainly can), will happen in one way only: the loser must kill
the winner before the race is done. Republicans have been reduced to just this: they may
indeed succeed in killing Kerry--all men are mortal, after all--but that doesn't ease the sting
of backing a loser. They're walking into a hell reserved for assassins--the hell of endless
despair.
anna missed,
It's the Sapir and Whorf theory ... yep.
Wikipedia entry on it and them.
Posted by: Kate_Storm | September 2, 2004 02:12 PM
a footnote to the above, koreyel: the loser that Miller and Cheney are tied to is a person
who doesn't even know the hazards of the game--his loose and breezy comments of late
have been, so to speak, highly unprofessional.
There shouldn't be a contest, and these guys are utterly risk-aversive. Hardly a year ago
their horse was the prohibitive favorite, and now the race is even. This isn't good for one's
peace of mind--and it gives rise to another question: if Bush should win, what prize would
Miller run the risk of accepting? Because it won't have escaped his notice that all those who
take posts under Bush are irreversibly diminished by that appointment.....
Kate Storm and anna missed: Benjamin Lee Whorf (1897-1941) came up with the
unforgettable axiom that it's easier to kill a language than to change its internal structure.
With a small (10 - 15) number of completely waterlogged books I applied the following
method.
1) Dry books without turning pages as best as possible, using whatever absorbent material
available; try and suck as much moisture out as you can, without manipulating the book too
much. Some kitchen cleaning cloths are hyper -absorbent.
2) Place book open as if reading on towel in electric oven on the lowest possible setting,
with the door fully OPEN. Create draft, fan if have it. I used an electric heater that also
â€˜blowsâ€™ on the coolest setting, placed quite far away. Turn books delicately from
time to time. This was in summer, it was in the South, and I didnâ€™t think the very strong
sun was a good idea. Perhaps some arrangement with central heating would be Ok too?
3) Wait.
The result was not too bad. The books were intact and readable. The pages of course were
not flat and smooth like before. One leather binding cracked, one cover fell off. These were
a mixture of regular hardbacks, paperbacks (these did quite well to my surprise) and a few
â€˜fancierâ€™, older books.
Posted by: Blackie | September 2, 2004 03:16 PM
method.
3) Wait.
The atlantic monthly has some good Iraq columns up at it's website.
You can Google It.
Posted by: R | September 2, 2004 03:17 PM
method.
3) Wait.
method.
sun was a good idea. Perhaps some arrangement with central heating would be Ok too ?
3) Wait.
sorry - but each time typepad told me 'could not open page', so I waited and checked (no
post appeared) and tried again..
Redstate.org on convention "Misfire," and a lack of party confidence in Bush's leadership:
...We know, through ample polling data, that the Democratic vote in this election is
motivated far more by antagonism to George W. Bush than by love for John Kerry. And we
know that the Republican vote is motivated far more by love for George W. Bush than it is
antagonism to John Kerry. Curiously, this is not reflected in the respective conventions: the
Dems who don't like Kerry spent their convo lauding him and not mentioning Bush; and
the Republicans who do like Bush have spent most of their convention hitherto -- well,
attacking Kerry. Zell being the apotheosis. Why is this happening?
Slate's Chris Suellentrop avers that, "[in] violation of the normal rules of politics, this year's
election is a referendum on the challenger rather than a referendum on the incumbent." But
Suellentrop doesn't quite have it (and Lord knows, he's getting the purely illusory lack of
enthusiasm for Bush here badly wrong) -- the GOP may want this election to be a
referendum on John Kerry, but that doesn't mean that it is. The electoral outcome -- as with
every reelection campaign -- will fundamentally reflect the popular judgment on Bush's
leadership. And therein lies the reason for the weird focus on the opposition candidate thus
far: there is, on some level, a lack of party confidence in that leadership and its record.
Now, don't get me wrong: I am of the school that dictates that whatever gripes we have
about Bush (and, as a conservative, I assuredly do), Kerry will assuredly be orders of
magitude worse. The reasons for this deserve wide exposition and explanation to the
American public. But that's the job for the surrogates, the media personnel, and Red State.
It's not the proper occupation for every major speaker at the convention.
We'll see what the President has to say tonight. He could turn it around; but as nearly the
entire burden of a forward-looking vision for this convention is now on his shoulders, I
admit to a creeping fear that a terrible mistake has been made this week at the Garden.
@alabama....
No doubt. No doubt.
It is sort of a double bind.
But not: I love you...go away.
Rather:
What we have here is a president--whose decisions, by any fair measure of analysis, are
simply and undeniably catastrophic failures--being eulogized to high heaven.
How does that effect the integrity of an organism? How does illogic effect a body politic?
Do you have to be on Xanax to say: this shit I smell is really a rose is a really a rose is
really a rose?
Or do you instead focus on whatever shreds of truth actually apply:
He is a strong leader.
Perhaps--but one shred hardly reality makes.
When one sits back and watches them jump up and down, and erode their vocal cords with
two shreds:
Stong and Unwavering leader...
They get quickly into trouble...
Because, I suspect, that even in these republican noggins there is this nagging reality
lurking in the back of everyone's mind:
Wrong and Unwavering...
As someone in another context put it:
This RNC has been nothing but a "volubly industry of denial."
Which is to say: "How can the republicans have their fake and eat it too?"
Truly...I really wonder at what drugs must be involved to keep this psychologically-ill
republican organism limping along.
alabama,
Thanks for coming up with that insight to Cheney's motivation etc. As for Miller, I find his
position and personality too fukked up to even consider.
I am a little surprised that you picked Kerry as the candidate for assassination. The logic is
OK but it would be oh so messy, and the payoff would be that they'd be stuck with Dub's
liabilities for another term. As long as we've broached the whack topic, the favored target is
the Dub himself IMO. That could put Dick in the top chair if done right, and all pretense of
democracy could be eliminated right away.
This could only work for Cheney if desperation/infighting in the higher echelons has
reached a point where it is the best they can hope for in a bad situation gone worse. I am
sure that Kerry was chosen as a backup in the event Diebold fails to deliver, and that killing
him is not in the plan. Preventing a popular rebellion has got to be in the mix too.
The main drawback to whacking the Dub is that Barb and Poppy would go nuts, and they
do have some power, but we know very well that these whackers are creative enough,
especially with airplanes, to give us an unfortunate accident if it becomes necessary. Or
consider a mad Arabian lone gunman.
The Dub was selected in a year ending in zero, and that alone makes him a prime target. No
wonder he looks scared most of the time.
Note to DHS Internet Oversight Committee: In case you didn't notice, the above is pure
hypothesis.
@Pat
Opening line.........
"300 kids are being held by Terrorists tonight.....tears awwwwwwwwwww "
Has Putin taken the silver?
Did anybody mention Iraq at the convention yesterday? Some Iraq links:
An army gone rogue and the tribulations of a journalist in Basra
I asked how he would describe the last couple of weeks in this, third largest, southern city.
â€œDid you see the movie â€œBlack Hawk Downâ€•? he asked. â€œIt's been like that.â€•
French hostages in Iraq handed over: Report
Huge Explosion On Iraq - Turkey Oil Line, Pumping Seriously Affected
Three Turkish hostages killed in Iraq
Two die in Nepal protest against Iraq killings
Rebel cleric must be defeated before his militia regroups, top U.S. commander says
Iraqis face kidnappings away from TV camera
US asks Philippines to reconsider Iraq job ban
Cleric Says It's Right to Fight U.S. Civilians in Iraq
You know...
Once upon a time I used to chide this celebrity worshipping culture of mine by creating
enormous imagined incongruities. For example: I once imagined Michael Jordan deciding
to auction his underwear for charity.
Today...reality finally caught up to me.
Britney's used chewing gum sold on eBay
Bernhard, in re: wet books. Thank you.
Blackie, in re: wet books. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Posted by: beq | September 2, 2004 06:07 PM
Dear culture of mine,
Here is another idea I had 20 years ago that you may want to make reality:
Corporate logos tatooed on foreheads.
Hurry...be the first in your neighborhood to have one...
Swoosh....
Tin Foil Hat Time.
USA gets the Kurdish Oil.
GB gets the Basra Oil.
Rest of Europe gets Iran Oil.
Terror, old Vladimir Putin has delivered the Crawford Plan?
@beq
I'm sorry about the soaked books beq, and other stuff too undoubtedly. You located in
Shocko Bottom?
@Alabama - take a look at T D Allen's article in this week's Rolling Stone on the Cheney
Curse - it's a pretty interesting take on his career from failing at Yale to screwing up every
position he's had since ... it's interesting background.
Posted by: Siun | September 2, 2004 07:53 PM
Of course...
Posted by: Uncle $cam | September 2, 2004 09:06 PM
@ rapt:
Lakeside, another place that got hit. I've been in the basement all evening sorting and
tossing but consider myself lucky by Shockoe Bottom standards. It was crazy. Out of
nowhere and 5 drownings. Now for the hot bubble bath and a tall whiskey and ginger and
Blackie, I have books in the oven. I keep reminding myself that at least I don't live in
Fallujah.
Posted by: beq | September 2, 2004 09:21 PM
Why Uncle, What did you expect?
Posted by: Diogenes | September 2, 2004 09:37 PM
From the Agonist:
US, Afghan forces make incursion into Pak territory
Miranshah | September 2
PakTribune - The US and its allied troops here Thursday crossed the border and entered
into Pakistani territory North Waziristan Agency and conducted house-to-house search in
the rugged area for about four hours.
[Any and every crossing into Pakistan by US forces requires the express approval of the
SecDef. There has to be a very compelling reason. They know they're getting closer, but as
for hopes - or dread suspicions - that some astoundingly good breaking news will erupt
before the election... well, there's just not that kind of control over the flow of events - as
another story at the Agonist, about the pull-out from Afghanistan of an election-monitoring
group, goes to show.]
Lastest on Sibel Edmonds?
Remember when Billmon would open a thread during someone's testimony or speech?
And then in real time stinging comments would flow? Talk about cutting wit...whew...
It took a certain amount of posters to make that technique zing.
Forget all that chatter about blogs and the net changing journalism. Sure that is true...but...
Those outrageous free-for-alls were really the purest form of smart mobs having their way
with truth and democracy.
Bush got let off the hook tonight.
@Kate Storm
Thanks for the second link to the Sapir/Whorf overview, now remember reading Whorfs'
book a really long time ago, had a little thing for linguistics at one time. Also and aside,
once had a girlfriend who worked for Charles E Osgood (the psycholinguist) at the U of Ill.
Osgood claimed for years that the CIA was tailing him and his research, everyone just
thought he was nutty and a little paranoid. Years latter (81or so) it was discovered by him
that the CIA had indeed had not only been tailing him, but had been funding (through a
phony endowments and grants) most of his research for a decade. Ha Ha you never know.
Here is Bob Herberts opening paragraph:
When asked this week on CNN how long the U.S. military is likely to remain in Iraq,
Senator John McCain replied "probably" 10 or 20 years. "That's not so bad," he said,
adding, "We've been in Korea for 50 years. We've been in West Germany for 50 years."
Gotta love it.
Looks like if we can vote these guys in for another 4 the Iraq mess will easily go to a
couple trillion.
I think we are 200 billion now. Vietnam was only 150 billion. So really we are on a pretty
good pace.
Hopefully that first trillion will force another 2 or 3 million americans to fall beneath the
poverty line.
And of course you noticed that Greenspan is doing a good job of softening up the sheeple
for not being able to retire until they turn 80.
Hopefully, the first trillion spent on Iraq will make Greenspan's vision a reality. Personally,
I don't think the sheeple will complain to much. I mean really, flipping burgers beats
staying home and watching morning tv. And you know, giving up a few more years of your
life...well...it is all for the good of the country right?
Things are really looking bright right now. We got the sheeple right where we want them.
George, Dick, Zell...keep up the good work boys...ya'all got my vote.
Hey all, sorry I have been out of circulation lately -- don't even have time to read this whole
thread but will try to catch up to it over the weekend. meanwhile...
@teuton you are right about the RNC being "children's TV." the inimitable rgiap put it very
well recently over at the to-be-Speakeasy: "a happy mutual infantilism." from Zell's
tantrum to Ahnold's sentimental schlockfest combined with fag-baiting, the whole thing is
high-school culture applied to politics.
'cos the spinmeisters calculate that the average mental age of Americans is now -- thanks to
all that media saturation that you think should make us so savvy -- about 15. this makes me
crazy. what makes me even crazier is that they appear to be right.
scariest line from the RNC teletubbies festival, imho, was the one about "it is the soldier
who guarantees freedom of the press, not the journalist." I know everyone's sick and tired
of the historical analogies but I can't resist reminding the world at large that the
fetishisation of the military, aka soldier-worship, is a central component of most of the
totalitarian ideologies (and their public theatre) of the last century.
jeez, all the laundry is hanging out at the RNC, ain't it -- the cult of self-conscious, nervous
masculinity meets the cult of death and pretty flags. same as it ever was, same as it ever
was, and despite being a non-drinking type person I feel like I need a drink...
Posted by: DeAnander | September 3, 2004 03:34 AM
Kerry comes out swinging......?
"..."For the past week, they attacked my patriotism and my fitness to serve as commander
in chief," Kerry said. "We'll, here's my answer. I'm not going to have my commitment to
defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and by
those who have misled the nation into Iraq."
DeAnanderbut I can't resist reminding the world at large that the fetishisation of the
military, aka soldier-worship, is a central component of most of the totalitarian ideologies
(and their public theatre) of the last century ... jeez, all the laundry is hanging out at the
RNC, ain't it -- the cult of self-conscious, nervous masculinity meets the cult of death and
pretty flags. same as it ever was, same as it ever was..."
Well put! As to the drinking ... it doesn't work as well as we might have it work.
Diminishing returns and all that.
Posted by: Kate_Storm | September 3, 2004 10:30 AM
@Kate Storm: "Diminishing returns and all that."
Yeah, just look at little boots.
Posted by: beq | September 3, 2004 10:52 AM
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« George Bush == Andy Warhol? | Main | Flip Flop (Re: Goalposts) »
Moon of Alabama: George Bush == Andy Warhol?
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Oh, you
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« Confused: Why Do They Vote GOP? | Main | Thread Open »
August 31, 2004
George Bush == Andy Warhol?
by anna missed
Last night Maureen Dowd was on both Charlie Rose and the Letterman show
simultaneously. IÂ´ll bet she has not been on any TV show in probably 10 years, which
brought to mind both the media and the fact that on both shows she was asked how George
Bush could put John Kerry on the defensive about the latter much more illustrious military
career. Her rather lame answer to the question, was that Kerry himself was, a little lame. It
would seem that this issue might harken to the larger conundrum of how Bush manages to
keep the dialectic away from himself the man, and, turn it against Kerry the man. In some
ways this is essentially the Teflon effect, that Reagan pioneered, and now Bush is using to
greater effect (is this why Bush himself likes to identify with Reagan?)
So, coming from visual arts, I, would put forth the notion that the Bush (Rove)
Administration has stolen, at least metaphorically, a page from the book (myth) of Andy
Warhol. I know this sounds bizarre, but, Warhols career was essentially founded on two
factors that might shed some light on this inexplicable issue.
First, Warhols career was established as an antithesis to the prevailing, and much lauded
Abstract Expressionist movement, and the first American (visual) art movement to attract
international respect. While grounded loosely to the tenets of phenomenology and
existentialism its artistic embodiment lies in the act (of painting) as a vehicle to self,
responsibility, and archetypal discovery. Andy Warhol, on the other hand, eschewed all that
is intrinsic to the individual, replacing the individual, as it were, with a depersonalized
image. While some may see this action as a critique of modern culture I would see it as a
warm and submissive embrace.
Second, the artwork of Andy Warhol was in essence, supplanted by what Robert Hughes
has called the â€œaffectationâ€•, or the embodiment, of the art idea as the personification
of the artist himself. With cultural amusement aside i.e. â€œI want to marry my tape
recorderâ€•, â€œeveryone will be famous for 15 minutesâ€•, etc. etc. Warhol managed to in
effect cultify himself. While this may sound trivial at first, in the political arena the notion
that a person could assemble a personification, an affectation, an image that can supersede
the man himself and have that image attain political currency, should give one pause.
The allurement of self affectation (on a stylistically level) is probably widespread in
American culture; the complete remake of the person is another thing again. Could that
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/george_bush_and.html (1 von 7) [16.11.2004 18:44:30]
little cinderblock church in Crawford Texas where George Bush was reportedly reborn be
just a little bit like Warhols factory in New York City were he (Warhol) transformed
himself from a â€œshoe illustratorâ€• into the quintessential American artist?
Ironically, for Kerry, Bushes (new) affected image, like Warhol, renders criticism mute.
Kerry is unable to attack Bush on his history as a man, because he is confronted with Bush
the IMAGE, the affected and reformed Bush will defer to the weakness of us all and his
triumph over weakness-- essentially like Warhol could transmutate moral weakness into the
ultimate coolness. Kerry on the other hand, is left pretty much with his own legacy, as a
man, dealing with the challenges and contradictions that are the natural wake of public
service.
George Bushes latest incarnation as the WAR PRESIDENT also carries the same
invulnerability along with even greater self aggrandizement, belying confrontation with
Kerrys own Vietnam proclamations of â€œwho will be the last man to die for a mistakeâ€•.
So, John Kerrys challenge is to either show a better way around the mistakes of the Bush
administration (lame), or to crack open the affectations with some kind of public
â€œinterventionâ€• that would reveal the wider truth (in the debate).
We shouldn't forget that after Andy Warhols death, he had few personal friends, his upper
West side townhouse was found to be full of classical paintings and rococo furniture.
Comments
or to crack open the affectations with some kind of public â€œinterventionâ€• that would
reveal the wider truth (in the debate).
@Anna Missed:
Do you have any ideas how Kerry can do this with eight weeks to go. The whole thing
infuriates me.
Thanks for a very good read.
Posted by: | August 31, 2004 09:02 AM
I don't want to be a spoilsport but this post strikes me as blather, a departure for Bernhard.
We all know that normal, rational responses to Bush's actions get no traction with the press
or with Congress. As we know, the press is owned by people who have fashioned their
lives around being republican and now donate to Bush. As we know, Congress, both
parties, defers to its big contributors. In this void, if Bush, a frat ne'er-do-well, says he's a
war president, he's a war president--the media will run with it. Bernhard is to be forgiven if
the day-in, day-out frustration of all this drives him, an intelligent, concerned observer, to
posts such as this. We do whatever we can think to do to get through.
Posted by: mint | August 31, 2004 09:51 AM
Quite a good analogy, Anna Missed. We all (here) know the man is an empty suit/blank
canvas. He really personifies the shallowness of our popular culture. To reach those who
can't see it, unfortunately, you would have to fight fire with fire and it seems late in the
game to re-invent Kerry. I only hope that there are enough of us who can see through it all.
Unbelieveable that we have come to this.
Posted by: beq | August 31, 2004 09:55 AM
Think of Warhol and Campbell's Soup: he didn't mock, denounce or "estrange" the icon
known as "Campbell's Soup" (Warhol, after all, wasn't Marcel Duchamp), he only rode it
all the way to the bank, joining his name (and his face) to its image, thereby wedding (or
welding) the twin celebrities of soup and artist in the "work of art". It's all very
"democratic"--very re-assuring to comsumers of everything from soup to nuts. And such is
Bush's connection to the practice of statecraft: the very monicker of "George W" is iconic,
as is shown by those folks who put Washington's image on the bottle of their ("anti-Heinz")
"W" ketchup (posted on the pages of Yahoo News). People are really dying for this stuff all
over the world.
Posted by: alabama | August 31, 2004 10:49 AM
"People are really literally dying for this stuff all over the world."
My bold.
Dowd was also on Booknotes on CSPAN Aug 8th.
Posted by: b real | August 31, 2004 11:15 AM
Yes indeed, beq, and that's where we'll find an answer to the question posed by anna missed
("animist"?) and Bernhard. Kerry ought to remind us that we're killing ourselves in every
imaginable way--that we're accelerating the arrival of our own deaths, and not just the
deaths of "Islamic terrorists". He ought to remind us that there's really no good reason to do
this, since death comes our way sooner or later anyway, and when it arrives, it doesn't
exactly go away. He ought to remind us that wrecking the interim between our "now" and
our "then" is hardly the healthiest way to spend it. (And yes, there are those for whom the
mere idea of death is unreal: it caught Andy Warhol, for instance, completely off guard.
People like Warhold and Bush will pull us into their fantasy-worlds if we let them.)
"Warhold"? There's a promising typo indeed (and the name of my typist, by the way, is
"Blind Desire").
GWB may be a cult object, but it does not matter.
You do not have to break the faith of the hard-core believers to win an election. All you
need to do is to crack the outer rim of opportunist campers.
Kerry can not outbush Bush (like Lieberman tried to). He has to propose his own Bold
issues, programs, much needed under-financed public services.
He should compare his past political career to what GWB was doing at that time. ("When I
was in the Senate Intelligence Committee in 1986, George was ... , well we don't know
what he was doing then.")
"A leader not only has to be tough, a leader also needs to know what to do. On 9-11, I
would have returned immediately to Washington to show that you can not scare America..."
(A what-if scenario, can not be rebuked).
Posted by: MarcinGomulka | August 31, 2004 12:17 PM
Warhol was a socialite and a fake modernist, capitalising on the times. He had a keen social
sense and meagre artistic gifts and managed to exploit them to the hilt, using his personality
alongside his â€ãrtâ€™. He gathered together and mixed up several trends, was successful.
He â€˜popularisedâ€™ , â€˜mainstreamedâ€™, â€˜softenedâ€™ some mild iconoclastic
tendencies. I quite like him actually, but without any admiration.
(MHO, no art studies at all..)
Bush, on the other hand, like all proto-fascists, is atavistic, conservative, reactionary. The
images he projects all have to do with power (barring a a few plastic turkeys here and
there!), domination, agression.
A hard sell, as he combines them with the idea of defense and reaction, rather than with
pro-action. Hitler freed himself from these constraints, as did Genghis Khan. (Say.)
Bush attempts to mix the popular-guy-next-door image, which comes natural to him, he has
scooted all his life on that, with a show of naked power. It does not fly over well.
The commonality is the reach for popular appeal. The difference is the stakes, and the fact
that Warhol introduced novelties (to the public at at large) whereas Bush has borrowed only
from the past.
Posted by: Blackie | August 31, 2004 02:23 PM
"Kerry can not outbush Bush"
You're right about that. But he can try, can't he? For instance, had he known there were no
WMDs in Iraq, Kerry said he still would have voted for regime change, a position Bush
himself has never taken. I believe this qualifies as attempting to outbush Bush, but it's
something that can't be done by a cipher.
OK, Iâ€™ll turn the analogy another 45 degrees and consider George Bush, the image, as
the pop(ular) icon of the fundamentalist right. Bushesâ€™ reborn, remade, and affected
personification can be seen as a custom made image (deliberately?) constructed to lay
political voice to the Christian right, and itâ€™s extended community. The fact that the
psychological mechanistics involved in the reborn image also entail faith, obsequious
loyalty, and a stubborn disregard for the contrary opinion, posed as the lifeblood of the
mythic shit kickinâ€™, brush clearinâ€™,ranch livinâ€™ cowboy American, presents an
image that is at once irresistible and unquestionable. Hence, the legions of NASCAR dads,
country & western fans, satellite dish country folk and a big chunk of the Republican party
have been led down this tunnel vision view of the world. They have ,in fact, cloaked
themselves within the same image and myth, which makes its unraveling so problematic on
the rhetorical level. To criticize Bush is to criticize them, socially, religiously, and
patriotically.
Whiler some Republican operatives would hope victory in Nov. could be secured
exclusively from the Christian right, I doubt that the tremendous load of real world failure
that has been accumulated on top of this flimsy edifice, by itâ€™s intrinsic and incarnate
impotence, will continue to bear the load.
A well placed kick may hasten the collapse.
Sorry to take so much bandwidth
Posted by: anna missed | August 31, 2004 08:20 PM
Actually Maureen Dowd has been popping up all over the talk shows here in the States
recently - promoting her new Bushworld book. (I was actually quite startled by her fashion
style - not quite what I expected!) She did a stint this week on the Sunday am Chris
Mathews show and certainly called the RNC event precisely right - she said it was all about
projecting macho and that Kerry needed to find some of the same (I'm paraphrasing here)
On the Warhol/Bush/Kerry idea - the Republicans have known and mastered the use of
media and images - they've understood that truth and nuance do not communicate in
modern mass media, soundbites and images do. They've been working on this and training
their troops well on the use of media image for a number of years. In the late 80's I
managed a political campaign against a mafia controlled democratic machine and saw the
republican training up close - they spent the money and put in the time to train everyone
down to the most minor local candidate - the dems did not.
Now I might wish for a higher form of political discourse but if I wanted to actually win an
election, I'd make damn sure I knew how to do image and soundbite as well as the repubs.
Sadly, Kerry and crew seem astonishingly inept ... and I'm afraid we may all end up paying
for that incompetence.
And I don't think we can just blame the media for this one - Kerry began his campaign
during a shift in media position which followed the shift in popular opinion in the war so
the space was there to win good coverage - there was a definite appetite for an anti-bush
candidate but the Kerry campaign did not capitalize on that shift in media mood. By
running an inept campaign, by not giving the media the hot images of a strong anti-bush
stand with clearly defined differences, Kerry squandered the opportunity ... and has instead
made the story his inability to hit back.
Maybe Kerry should hire Maureen Dowd for a little media coaching ... she certainly seems
to get it.
Posted by: Siun | August 31, 2004 08:24 PM
@Anna Missed:
Hopefully some body starts kicking at that porous pile of crap.
Posted by: | August 31, 2004 08:57 PM
My rage is directed at Dowd (and her ilk).
Does she, or does she not make observations, weigh them, and then offer up an honest point
of view?
or....
when the going gets tough does she always waffle and offer up the flipside to preserve her
electa....errrr, popularity?
This smarminess masquerading as irony drives me crazy, and its been driving me crazy
since MoDo was a correspondent covering Poppy....
My feelings are exactly the same wrt Chris Matthews and his short-lived spine implant on
the SwiftBoat issue.
Sorry.....ranting....I like anna m's thesis but I agree with marcingomulka....thus, the only
way I can see for Kerry to win is to hive off those Swing Voters while preserving
electability (caution with counterpunching).
Now, surrogates on the other hand....
In sum, Andy Warhol lulled the progressive cultural forces of America unwittingly into an
embrace of commercialism and capitalism-----George Bush likewise, has lulled the
religious forces of America into the plunder of their own self interest.
Both have masterfully mesmerized their respected constituency with an image and a dream,
that is in service to only themselves and their associates,.
Have started reading the Thomas Frank book; Whats the Matter With Kansas? and so far, is
very informative and amusing, on the same basic question.....without Andy.
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« Confused: Why Do They Vote GOP? | Main | Thread Open »
Moon of Alabama: Confused: Why Do They Vote GOP?
And
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whiskey
Oh, you
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« Moving the Goalposts | Main | George Bush == Andy Warhol? »
August 31, 2004
Confused: Why Do They Vote GOP?
In yesterdays USA Today Michael Moore says The GOP doesn't reflect America. He
claims that most Republicans are not in line with their party on most issues, but their reason
to vote for the GOP agenda is:
Money. That's what it comes down to for the RINOs. They do work hard and
have been squeezed even harder to make ends meet. They blame Democrats
for wanting to take their money.
Is it really this easy?
Is this not more about fear of insecurity which lets people vote for the party they assume
will make them more safe? If so, what part of the fear is real and what part is induced by
propaganda?
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders ... All you
have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism."
Herman Goering during the Nuernberg trials
Comments
The whole scene in America is very strange today.
The Republican party has cobbled together a constituency based on wedge issues, with
70% of that constituency voting against their pocketbooks;preferring each time to vote their
"Weggie". This enables the <30% that control the party to advance their economic interests,
on the back of the proles.
Throw in fear(not quite sure what everyone is afraid of). Add war as a CNN spectator
sport(no chance of powder burns or messed up hair here).Season with LENI
RIEFENSTAHL-style visual art.
There you've got the American Reich.
Posted by: Trotsky's Ghost | August 31, 2004 09:32 AM
It's not just money - it's also racism and not just in the South. Suburbs grew as a result of "white flight". White suburban votes
ignore college costs going up, property tax increases, all of the other costs that have been
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/confused_on_why.html (1 von 5) [16.11.2004 18:44:32]
passed onto them by the Repubs, as long as they are sure that the money going to "welfare
mothers" is being cut. Yet, they are more than happy to pay for prisons. And yet, these
same people go to Church and are "pillars" of their communities. On Election day, they
might as well be wearing white hoods.
Posted by: fasteddie | August 31, 2004 11:00 AM
Looks like hate and anger play a rather large role in the equation. If it was simply fear, the
empire would have never been advanced, citizens would not be nominating war criminals
into office, and we wouldn't be using war to end war. Probably a lot of ignorance too...
...by ignorance, I was thinking along the lines of mindlessly relinquishing your own ideas
and opinions to an authoritarian, and visibly financially successful, power structure. People
in leadership positions retain a certain amount of 'get out of jail free' cards simply because
of their position. This is evident every day in the way media relays official sourcing. And it
was an excuse proffered by many a congress person when giving GWB the power to have
the power to declare war. No doubt that an uninformed electorate also heavily relies on the
"expertise" factor to form passable conclusions on matters at hand. That seems to be what
the GOP is pushing right now, that the current leadership has the experience and experts
needed to get the job done. If this wasn't so crucial, they wouldn't be engaged in so much in
secrecy and manipulation.
Also, the GOP works to appeal via the values route, giving those who are disgusted by the
free-market consumeristic excesses that surface in the form of bling bling capitalism an
avenue to channel their disgust and hate. That's another instance where ignorance plays a
critical factor, b/c most of those problems are created by the very system that the GOP
endorses. The South fought tooth & nail against the ideas of education and literacy for
reasons which should be obvious today to those most in need of it. Brute force &
ignorance. They are inseparable.
Posted by: b real | August 31, 2004 01:40 PM
Um, might we not be suffering a little smugness here?
Those who vote Republican are fearful, ignorant, misanthropic, authority-worshipping
racists?
And those who vote Democrat are - what? Sunny, fearless, erudite, tolerant, and urbane?
Pat,
I think you're right here. One way insults don't really get people thinking.
But if you can get people to taste the truth in the name you call them, you can embarrass
them into thinking enough to shift. And I mean this also as an answer to Bernhard's
question about propaganda's role in getting people to believe lies: propaganda has much
more money and organization behind it than any citizen can muster. But we can use the
truth.
So let's start calling the Republicans what they are - a party of deadbeat citizens. It
describes perfectly the behavior: don't tax papa's income, food and education are wasted on
kids like that anyhow; don't clean up your neighborhood, move to the suburbs; and
remember to beat the shit out of the first person who looks at you crossly, especially if they
are your own kids or wife (citizens) because its important for people to fear you.
Share the vision for a moment: some Repug campaign ad comes on about the economy
turning a corner, and everywhere there's someone to say, "What a bunch of deadbeats. Sure,
the check's in the mail..." Dole lies in public that Kerry faked his medals, and people
whisper, "What did they pay this deadbeat to betray a fellow veteran? Damn!"
Share the dream.
Posted by: Citizen | August 31, 2004 05:16 PM
Pretty much the same as the other side of the coin. They don't need to tout the racist aspect
these days in such a blatant fashion, prefering now to mask it as part of the
humanitarian/white man's burden. And they don't try to ply the religious right/puritanical
patrilineal values mumbo jumbo as rigidly. The dems have used fear at least as much as the
repubs recently. I cannot even count the number of mail requests I've rcvd over the past
couple of years trying to scare me into sending money b/c things were so bad, even though
their candidate is spending over $200 million to get across a platform that is no different in
the issues I see as being most critical (Iraq, Foreign Policy, Israel, Imperialism). In all
fairness to the citations above, Bernhard's query literally dealt w/ the republican vote, but
Pat's correct in that these traits are not endemic to one party alone. That being said, and all
smugness aside, the reality that the representatives of a sizeable number of citizens are
getting ready to nominate a war criminal to speak for me leaves them open to
narrowly-focused criticism & evaluation at this moment in time. The dems got theirs earlier
in the month.
[having problems posting -- apologize if dupe posts]
Pretty much the same as the other side of the coin. They don't need to tout the racist aspect
these days in such a blatant fashion, prefering now to mask it as part of the
humanitarian/white man's burden. And they don't try to ply the religious right/puritanical
patrilineal values mumbo jumbo as rigidly. The dems have used fear at least as much as the
repubs recently. I cannot even count the number of mail requests I've rcvd over the past
couple of years trying to scare me into sending money b/c things were so bad, even though
their candidate is spending over $200 million to get across a platform that is no different in
the issues I see as being most critical (Iraq, Foreign Policy, Israel, Imperialism). In all
fairness to the citations above, Bernhard's query literally dealt w/ the republican vote, but
Pat's correct in that these traits are not endemic to one party alone. That being said, and all
smugness aside, the reality that the representatives of a sizeable number of citizens are
getting ready to nominate a war criminal to speak for me leaves them open to
narrowly-focused criticism & evaluation at this moment in time. The dems got theirs earlier
in the month.
[having problems posting -- apologize if dupe posts]
addendum to last post: And a strong case can be made that the dems will gain plenty of
automatic votes, strictly b/c of who they are not, from a fervent bush-hating populace.
Pat,
I think you're right here. One way insults don't really get people thinking.
But if you can get people to taste the truth in the name you call them, you can embarrass
them into thinking enough to shift. And I mean this also as an answer to Bernhard's
question about propaganda's role in getting people to believe lies: propaganda has much
more money and organization behind it than any citizen can muster. But we can use the
truth.
So let's start calling the Republicans what they are - a party of deadbeat citizens. It
describes perfectly the behavior: don't tax papa's income, food and education are wasted on
kids like that anyhow; don't clean up your neighborhood, move to the suburbs; and
remember to beat the shit out of the first person who looks at you crossly, especially if they
are your own kids or wife (citizens) because its important for people to fear you.
Share the vision for a moment: some Repug campaign ad comes on about the economy
turning a corner, and everywhere there's someone to say, "What a bunch of deadbeats. Sure,
the check's in the mail..." Dole lies in public that Kerry faked his medals, and people
whisper, "What did they pay this deadbeat to betray a fellow veteran? Damn!"
Share the dream.
Posted by: Citizen | August 31, 2004 06:34 PM
At http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/, Ezra Klein types the "thought that must not be
spoken" - that Bush really does represent the American people. Or - that the Republicans
are masters at rigging the signals relied upon by people who put only a little time into
deciding who to vote for. Probably it's some of both. I haven't read the book "What's the
Matter with Kansas?" yet, but probably what it talks about is relevant here.
Posted by: Mistah Charley | August 31, 2004 08:13 PM
Mistah C,
Thomas Frank, the author of
"Whats the Matter with Kansas" laid out his thesis pretty succinctly in Harpers recently and
I've heard him talk about it extensively on some Left Coast radical radio...
What's missing from the discussion above that Frank thinks is vital is the concept of the
Repubs co-optation of religion as an integral component of winning the 'culture' wars....
@RossK
We're witnessing a another Great (Religious) Awakening - close on the heels of the
late-nineteenth-century, early-twentieth-century Awakening. Militant Protestantism is
always bad news for the nation.
Pat, would be really interested to hear if you think this is a phenomenom that crosses party
lines, or, if it is an important factor amongst the most moderate of Republicans (ie. moving
towards swing voter territory)?
Surveillance Camera Players perform Wilhelm Reich's "The Mass Psychology of Fascism"
VERY cool, b real. Thanks for the link! ;-)
Posted by: Kate_Storm | September 2, 2004 02:16 PM
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« Moving the Goalposts | Main | George Bush == Andy Warhol? »
Moon of Alabama: Moving the Goalposts
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« Rep Con 2004 | Main | Confused: Why Do They Vote GOP? »
August 30, 2004
Moving the Goalposts
October 9, 2003
May 3, 2004
July 30, 2004
We have a clear vision on how to win the war on terror and bring peace to the
world.
August 28, 2004
...
ones of our troops that they will have the resources they need to fight and win
the war against the terrorists.
August 30, 2004
Lauer: â€œYou said to me a second ago, one of the things you'll lay out in
your vision for the next four years is how to go about winning the war on
terror. That phrase strikes me a little bit. Do you really think we can win this
war on terror in the next four years?â€•
President Bush: â€œI have never said we can win it in four years.â€•
President Bush: â€œI don't think you can win it. But I think you can create
conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of
the world
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/moving_the_goal.html (1 von 8) [16.11.2004 18:44:35]
Comments
"Americans are serving and sacrificing to keep this country safe and to bring
freedom to others. After the attacks of September the 11th, 2001, this nation
resolved to fight terrorists where they dwell. We resolved to arm the terrorist
enemy."
(The White House website quietly changed "arm" to "disarm". Charleston, West Virginia,
Jul. 4, 2004) Hard to win when you're arming your enemy...
Posted by: beq | August 30, 2004 02:17 PM
The war on terror never has been about "winning." Its about control on two fronts. The first
is holding on to power by the repubs and promoting their agenda. That agenda includes the
backing of Israel and controling oil and destroying the middle class. The second is control
of the sheeple in order to control their lives. So, you must scare the shit out the sheeple and
promote the laying down of control to authority that comes with the right wing idealogy. In
other words don't speak ill of authority, ie the president, even if he's sticking it to you. Just
be quite and be a good little sheeple.
We are basically in a police state and Bushie wants more control.
Also, military bases and hardware are high on the agenda. Gotta spend that $400 billion,
even though our roads and other infrastructure is falling apart.
Posted by: jdp | August 30, 2004 04:22 PM
@JDP:
Good thoughts. You took that one down-town.
But what if there are a bunch of free-range sheeple out there?
Do they put them on reservations or what?
So it's come to "It depends on your definition of win." Hee hee hee.
Posted by: kat | August 30, 2004 04:59 PM
@KAT:
Now that was Funny!
Posted by: WJ Clinton | August 30, 2004 05:22 PM
OT
But another take on the Yukos "de-privatisation"
It's longer, and much more expensive, than the Chinese route, going all the way to the
Pacific near Vladivostok. Russia is very much tempted to strike a strategic, energy alliance
with Japan. But the Kremlin decided, also in April 2003: the priority is the Chinese
pipeline.
...be a good little sheeple
Man I like that!
Next up: Bush tells his followers that Freedom is actually an evil thing. Maybe this will
now make it clear to the illiter..erm, electorate, that all of this is a monster distraction to
direct thinkable thought while our pockets are being picked and our children are being
forced into an even more hopeless indentured servitude to the greedy vampires. Cheney
talks out the side of his mouth so you don't see the remaining fang. Bush talks out his ass
and people repeat it. Burroughs would be impressed.
NEMO, WHERE ARE YOU? ARE YOU OK?
Teuton, he was insulted on this Blog for his fine efforts. Go Figure.
"FINDING NEMO"
Meanwhile, was Billmon shipwrecked or did he holiday with Kerry?
I hope the latter.
@CP:
Interesting. Keep us advised on this. August 30 is upon us.
Looks to me like Mr. Putin and his Kremlin cronies are playing the Great Game, and
everyone else is too.. Seems from the ATimes article that Putin holds some pretty good
cards. He plays them right he doesn't have any threat from China.
If I were he, I would be building pipelines everywhere, pumping like mad, for a while.
Very Interesting!
Posted by: JD Reckafella | August 30, 2004 06:25 PM
Especially interesting JD, in that I see Putin standing up to the reptiles, as perhaps the most
powerful non-reptile on earth, and it appears that they can't come up with an effective
response of their preferred black-ops type. He still has his old buddies from the KGB
working with him and they know better than anyone else the true balance of power here.
And they are making some smart moves. Oil ownership is certainly on the Russians' side,
and so far they are untouchable by the greedy reptile hand. Because they know all the
tricks.
Lets hope that they can keep this position and strengthen it else the reptiles gain a free
hand. That would be very bad news.
Posted by: rapt | August 30, 2004 06:40 PM
The Russians won WW2 for the West, and they play chess. Could you imagine playing
chess against GWB?
He couldn't win Snakes and Ladders. That's the BIG PROBLEM!
@CP:
Then you had go throw politics into it, and screw everything up.
Patriotism ain't Red or Blue, black or white, North or South, Rethug or Dem: it's a state of
mind.
@Teuton:
NEMO, that little FARK, whirling dervish of news,is just resting up. He's Okay.
@CP:
Meanwhile, was Billmon shipwrecked or did he holiday with Kerry?
No Billmon's Narcissism knows no bounds. He probably dined with himself, and posted
about his great lunch, on his own thread, under 5 or more pseudonyms. Amazing character,
that one. Truly a legend in his own mind.
Doubt Kerry would have much time for that piece of work.
Actually, I hope Billmon comes back to Hamburg.
I've got a 20 Megaton airburst waiting for him. End of the Cretaceous. No more reptiles.
No more shit.
Most amused by all of his shit.
Posted by: T REX | August 30, 2004 07:19 PM
Trolls have found this site.
FO T Rex.
@CP
Yeah, I saw them top of this thread too.
You can tell a troll. All they can do is call names and there is not any logical thought
patterns.
You bad, me good. Kerry bad, Bush good. Black/white. Right/wrong. Intellectual
bad/religious values good. Free market good/government bad. (Unless its to give your
favorite corporation tax breaks) Kerry flip-flopper/Bushie liar. Woops, that was supposed
to be {commander and chief steady}. Sorry trolls.
Boy, is the world really that black and white? No greens, blues, yellows or "gray areas?"
No logic?
Well, when it comes to a right wing nut cake, its always their way or the highway.
My husband's reaction: The Commander in Chief says the war on terror can't be won. So
what was I doing out there all that time?
Imagine, Bernhard, that you're a grunt at a fire base in some godforsaken corner of the
world, sleeping in 125 degree heat and going out on missions you can't be sure you'll be
coming back from, and the guy sitting in the White House says, "We can't win this one."
Swell.
odd......." creating the conditions where those who use terrorism as a tool are less
acceptable"
oh!!!!! so thats what we've been doing in iraq......
but what about that magnet idea?????
help i can't keep up
>>>>>>>>>>>> catastrophic success <<<<<<<<<<<<
now i'm hyperventilating
""""""""""""" i wanna be the peace president """"""""""""
+++++++++++++++
the ghost of Andy Warhol has taken up residence inside George Bushes brain
@Anna Missed:
You sure the hell got my vote; in 4 more years!
Not winning is the only way to keep the world bound by their "perpetual war". It's not hard
to see the rusty cogs whirling noisily and furiously. This also means more nations that give
aid to faceless terrorists, which means more bounty to plunder. It's a fine variation of the
Cold War ... a containment of the uncontainable ... fear lurking around every corner, and
nearly perfect in its machiavellian composition.
Posted by: Kate_Storm | August 30, 2004 11:14 PM
@T REX
and you can marry your jesus statue
@ Anna Missed and Kate Storm:
You say Warhol;I say RIEFENSTAHL; we agree on
Lorenzo Il Magnifico.
No Problemas! Venceremos!
William B. Bader, From Vietnam to Iraq: Pretext and Precedent, at the IHT:
(W)hen taking on an administration as to the evidence presented in paving the road to war,
the timing of any inquiry is critical to its success. Fulbright became skeptical of the 1964
presentation, but he could not find a way to penetrate what he came to believe was a web of
deception. In 1966 he attempted unsuccessfully to repeal the Tonkin Resolution. In August
1967, as the Vietnam War fell ever deeper into a quagmire, he decided to try again. He
chose me, a junior staffer with a naval intelligence background and an historian's training,
to undertake a confidential inquiry into the events. Six months later that research
blossomed into an executive session of the Foreign Relations Committee that contributed to
Johnson's demise. It took four years to retrace accurately the road to war in Vietnam. A
credible audit by the Foreign Relations Committee of the Iraq war resolution will require
the same preconditions that produced the Tonkin postmortem - the passage of time and a
continuing festering of the efforts to restore peace and security to the region...
Karen Kwiatowski puts in a good word for Larry Franklin at lewrockwell.com.
Posted by: Pat | August 31, 2004 12:07 AM
@Pat:
I respect Col. K's judgement completely. She
has been speaking, without fear, about all this,
since spring 2003. What's up Pat?
Why is Franklin the sacrificial "sheeple"?
Why is Franklin the sacrificial "sheeple"?
Beats me. I entertained the idea that it came from inside the White House - a slap for some
entity or other, not specifically Mr. Franklin. (No love lost between GWB and Sharon,
believe it or not.) Then again, someone on the other side of the political fence could have
been calling in a favor. My political instincts and experience are severely limited.
In any case, I don't expect that the investigation is in high gear or soon to produce.
I'm a little unclear on why the failed exchange of MEK terrorists for (major) al-Qaeda
operatives (apparently engineered by Franklin) is not seen as a major blunder in the war
against terrorism. The MEK is an acknowleged terrorist organization, and therefore, under
the presidents own proclomation, should be brought to justice--- not to mention that Iran
has offered, on silver platter, 5 of the highest al-Qaeda members---bin-Ladens son, and
al-Zarqawi included --- and this coming from the country we accuse of harboring the
terrorists--- that they are willing to give us??
Posted by: anna missed | August 31, 2004 03:50 AM
As expected, over the past 24 hours now the Dems have been vociferously calling GWB on
this one and, in the process, reaffirming their own committment to winning the phony war
on terror. So was this a set-up, or simply a gaff? And why is Edwards so militant? Tell me,
where is sanity?
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Moon of Alabama: Rep Con 2004
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« Blow Off | Main | Moving the Goalposts »
August 30, 2004
Rep Con 2004
For the Republican delegates the question is: "Did he deliver?"
Thank you for this honor.
Together, we will renew America's purpose.
...
So tonight, we vow to our nation we will seize this moment of American
promise. We will use these good times for great goals.
We will confront the hard issues, threats to our national security, ...
...
Tonight in this hall, we resolve to be the party of - not of repose but of reform.
We will write not footnotes but chapters in the American story. ... The world
needs America's strength and leadership. And America's armed forces need
better equipment, better training and better pay. ... A generation shaped by
Vietnam must remember the lessons of Vietnam: When America uses force in
the world, the cause must be just, the goal must be clear and the victory must
be overwhelming. ... Now is the time not to defend outdated treaties but to
defend the American people.
A time of prosperity is a test of vision, and our nation today needs vision.
That's a fact. That's a fact.
...
And we need a leader to seize the opportunities of this new century ...
...
For me, gaining this office is not the ambition of a lifetime, but it is the
opportunity of a lifetime, and I will make the most of it.
I believe great decision are made with care, made with conviction, not made
with polls.
I do not need to take your pulse before I know my own mind.
I do not reinvent myself at every turn. I am not running in borrowed clothes.
...
The wait has been long, but it won't be long now.
A prosperous nation is ready to renew its purpose and unite behind great goals,
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/rep_con_2004.html (1 von 5) [16.11.2004 18:44:37]
and it won't be long now.
Text of George W. Bush's acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention 2000
The answer will be a resounding "Yes!"
Comments
hee,hee,hee. great speach where's the beef?
Posted by: onzaga | August 30, 2004 07:39 AM
the coffin protest made aljazeera,oh what a
tangled web we weave.
Posted by: onzaga | August 30, 2004 07:54 AM
"The wait has been long, but it won't be long now.
A prosperous nation is ready to renew its purpose and unite behind great goals, and it
won't be long now."
I forget, just what are we waiting for?
Written by one of the Lizards.
No wonder they are so quick to snatch up any actor that strays too near the trap, and put
him in office to read this stuff. Dub, tho not an actor, gives it his best, and listens to his
coaches.
Posted by: rapt | August 30, 2004 09:45 AM
We will write not footnotes but chapters in the American story.
Well, he's certainly lived up to that one.
Problem is, they are chapters of disgrace and deceit that will haunt this country and the
world for a generation.
Posted by: SusanG | August 30, 2004 11:27 AM
Prez on war against terror: 'I don't think you can win it'
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON â€” President Bush says staying the course in the war on terror will make
the world safer for future generations, though he acknowledges an all-out victory against
terrorism may not be possible.
In an interview on NBC-TVâ€™s â€œTodayâ€• show broadcast to coincide with
Mondayâ€™s start of the Republican National Convention in New York, Bush said
retreating from the war on terror â€œwould be a disaster for your children.â€•â€™
â€œYou cannot show weakness in this world today because the enemy will exploit that
weakness,â€• he said. â€œIt will embolden them and make the world a more dangerous
place.â€•
When asked â€œCan we win?â€• the war on terror, Bush said, â€œI donâ€™t think you
can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the â€” those who use terror as a
tool are â€” less acceptable in parts of the world.â€•
[Ohmygod.]
This "speech" hits me like everything else that comes from Bush. For two terms we had a
President who could talk, think, deal and fight, and do so with a remarkable degree of
composure and good cheer. And maybe Clinton never equalled Bush's 1250 on the SATs,
but he's never had to white-knuckle his way through anything--not even the endless
assassination attempt that culminated in his impeachment trial--because he knows how to
think and act. Bush is just a puffed-up, tone-deaf dry drunk who can't see the distinction
between acting on impulse and finding the limits (as of resources or opportunities, through
deliberation and negotiation) from which to proceed on a meaninful path of action. He's
just a whole lot of promises squandered at birth. He may have native wit, lots of desire, and
an infinite sense of entitlement, but he's never brought an initiative to any like a successful
development--not even his famous tax cuts. No wonder Republicans of all stripes and
shades are so discouraged by the guy.
Sir Bush_alot riding on the mighty steed America into the battle of Good versus Evil.
A man's man with a man's mind... who doesn't need to feel your pulse to know that you
need saving.
Sir Bush_alot, knight-errant, tilting at al Qaedian windmills.
Let us join together and pledge fealty to this brave Lord.
As one...the crowd rises, clapping their asscheeks together in a thunderous din of approving
farts.
Praise the Lord Bush our saviour..praise him!
Long live the King!
Long live the King!
Long live the King!
2004-08-02 -- In response to specific terrorist truck-bomb threats against major U.S.
financial institutions, Democrat presidential candidate John Forbes Kerry today called for a
"livable wage" for minimum-wage workers, more funding for public schools and a
government-controlled health care system for all Americans.
"These threats from alleged potential lawbreakers cast a stark light on the most important
issues of our day," said Mr. Kerry, who is also a U.S. Senator. "If the terrorists strike they
may kill underpaid heads of household, underpaid school teachers and other people who
can't afford health insurance."
Mr. Kerry added that if he were in the White House today, "these potential future victims
would have had better, government-sponsored, lives before they met their untimely end.
And we would aggressively prosecute their killers through the courts."
"These are the issues that really matter to Americans," he said. "Unfortunately, George
Bush has been so distracted by alleged threats to the homeland and by rounding up
so-called terrorists, that he has lost touch with the average citizen. Mr. Bush acts as if
government's primary job were to provide for the common defense, rather than to guarantee
the right of single-payor healthcare for all."
HUH? The poor murdered would have had better lives before death with proper health
care? And their killers would be hauled up before the courts? And, Bush has been
distracted by â€˜threats to the Homelandâ€™...need I go on?
Kerry canâ€™t win. He doesnâ€™t want to win.
ha ha, above From Scrapple face:
Link
Still.
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« Framing the Death of the Beast | Main | Rep Con 2004 »
August 29, 2004
Blow Off
There are many pieces coming to light about the spy case involving the PentagonÂ´s Iran
specialist Franklin.
Josh Marshall, Laura Rozen and Paul Glastris have been on the case for some month and
their new Iran-Contra II? piece in The Washington Monthly gives the best background
along with LauraÂ´s writings in her weblog War and Piece and JoshÂ´s in his Talking
Points Memo.
Also interesting is the background on AIPEC given yesterday by Juan Cole Israeli Spy in
Pentagon Linked to AIPAC and his excellent take on the scandal today Fomenting a War
on Iran.
Additional information today comes via Newsweek: And Now A Mole? and from the big
three: NYT F.B.I. Said to Reach Official Suspected of Passing Secrets, WaPo Analyst Who
Is Target of Probe Went to Israel and LAT Report on Iran Key to Spying Inquiry and
Pentagon Spy Flap Isn't Open-and-Shut Case.
Knight Ridder says "the probe is broader than previously reported, and goes well beyond
allegations that a single mid-level analyst gave a top-secret Iran policy document to
Israel": FBI espionage probe goes beyond Israeli allegations, sources say
The whole story is just too big and too complicate to be recapitulated here in full, but let me
highlight some points.
Larry Franklin is the PentagonsÂ´s top Iran policy analyst. He is working in the office of
Undersecretary of Defence for Policy Douglas Feith. He is also a Colonel in the Air Force
Reserve and has worked in Israel in this capacity. Some 18 month ago the FBI started an
investigation on Franklin for giving away US policy papers on Iran to AIPEC, the right
wing Israeli lobby group in Washington. AIPEC is said to have passed this information to
Israel. Newsweek reports: "Franklin also passed information gleaned from more highly
classified documents, [one] official said.".
Franklin, together with his colleague Harold Rhode did meet several times with Iranian
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/blow_off.html (1 von 15) [16.11.2004 18:44:41]
arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar and other Iranian exiles, dissidents and government
officials starting in October 2001. Ghorbanifar played a key role in the Reagan
administrationâ€™s Iran-Contra affair. The meetings also involved Michael Leeden,
Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italy's military intelligence agency, SISMI and the Italian
Minister of Defence Antonio Martino. The meetings backchanneled official US policy and
the State Department, but the White House is said to have blessed at least the first trip.
Defence Minister Antonio Martino is vice president of the Italian Friends of Israel
association (Link).
There are many connections to other scandals and it feels like these are all coming together
now:
● Retired Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, who had worked in the DoD Middle East
group, reported Israeli military and intelligence figures did work closely and off the
record with Feith and Wolfowitz in the planning of a Iraq war.
● SISMI, the Italian military intelligence agency, is involved in the forged Nigerian
Yellow Cake documents that falsly connected Iraq to uranium aquisitions and did
lead to the Wilson/Plame case.
●
The Pentagon group now under scrutiny is the same that worked to put Ahmad
Chalabi into the top position in Iraq. The group is under investigation for illegally
giving US information to Chalabi who then has given these to Iran.
There are connections to a group of intelligence officers that are currently being
trained to "work" in Iran.
There is not yet a connection to Sibel EdmondÂ´s reports of foreign influence in the
FBIÂ´s translation service, but I do expect some connections to surface soon.
●
The opening of this scandal shortly before the Republican convention seems planed. The
number of "official leaks" is incredible and this looks like the general hit back by all
institutions and persons, CIA, State, FBI etc., that have been hurt by the Neocons over the
last years. The consequences for Bush and for the US foreign policy can hardly be
overestimated.
The Israeli press is rightly very concerned about the consequences of these scandals.
Haaretz: Focus: The 'dual loyalty' slur returns to haunt U.S. Jews and Analysis: The
Franklin affair will damage Israel's image JÂ´lem Post: Storm on the Israel-US horizon?
Comments
Juan Cole has an excellent review of this case today.
Posted by: mdm | August 29, 2004 09:06 AM
Thanks for the very clear summary, Bernhard.
As you say, the timing would too much of a coincidence not to have been planned.
I think we can sit down, relax, and get ready to enjoy the ride...
Posted by: JÃ©rÃ´me | August 29, 2004 09:09 AM
@mdm - thanks - I did include it now.
Bernhard, thanks for this great overview and JÃ©rÃ´me I hope you are right. I am more
than willing to relax and enjoy this ride.
I would like to share an observation, which to me is an indication that even the mood of the
media is changing, at least subconsciously. I remember last year the WaPo used for every
editorial and article about Dean, a very nasty photo where he looked stupid; I was frustrated
every time I saw it. About 2 days after he was out of the race and it became clear that.
Kerry would be the candidate that picture was replaced with one where he looked really
nice. Last year and over the first few month of this year, pictures of Kerry usually where
pretty bad. At first, I thought he might just not be photogenic, but all of a sudden, more and
more nice pictures of Kerry are showing up. Now the opposite seems to happen with Bush,
all this time the media showed those hero pictures of Bush. However, lately this has
changed. I find it interesting that there are more and more pictures showing him like in a
â€˜Sieg Heilâ€™ posture. You can find more often pictures where he looks bad. Remember
the one with Laura in the Golf car at the G8. Or the one where he walked out of a press
conference. These are just some examples, however, I would say overall the media and this
includes the websites of some TV stations show much more unfavorable pictures of Bush.
Maybe, it has also become more difficult to make good pictures of Bush. Have you
observed how his posture is detoriating? Now some of this could be due for him not
running anymore. However, he is also developing this tire around his waist and this sloppy
posture, which I would connect to the psychopharmaca he is taking. I have seen this change
with other people taking them too. In may work I pay a lot of attention to posture and it is
amazing what a posture can tell about a person and thus I would say he is under enormous
emotional pressure even with the medication. For example, that picture of Bush leaving the
press conference was labeled as Bush being angry, but to me that was not the posture of an
angry person. The way he let his head hang I and rounded his shoulders and other signs, I
would say he looked defeated and I was â€ãlmostâ€™ sorry for him. Therefore, I wonder
if he can keep going until November, I would not be surprised if he had a breakdown
before then.
So, I hope this was not too much OT, JÃ©rÃ´meâ€™s comment to this post just reminded
me of this. I really hope that all these signs indicate the light at the end of the tunnel.
Posted by: Fran | August 29, 2004 10:06 AM
Whats the difference in AIPEC, and PNAC? This is the question of our times.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | August 29, 2004 10:42 AM
Are we seeing the last act of Gotterdamnrung?
Lug und Trug: ... erledigen kann; denn der Kongress zittert vor Angst vor â€šAIPECâ€™,
der israelischen ... 2000 von dem â€žProject for the New Centuryâ€œ (PNAC) verfasstes
Dokument ...
Can anyboby here translate german better than what I have done here? Also, pay attention
to these dates.
Der Jude Michal Kinsley schrieb im Magazin â€žSlateâ€œ vom 24. Oktober 2002:
â€žTariq Aziz has a theory. Saddam Hussein's deputy told the New York Times this week,
"The reason for this warmongering policy toward Iraq is oil and Israel." Although no one
wishes to agree with Tariq Aziz, he has put succinctly what many people in Washington
apparently believe.The lack of public discussion about the role of Israel in the thinking of
â€œPresident Bushâ€• is easier to understand, but weird nevertheless. It is the proverbial
elephant in the room: Everybody sees it, no one mentions it. The reason is obvious and
admirable: Neither supporters nor opponents of a war against Iraq wish to evoke the classic
anti-Semitic image of the king's Jewish advisers whispering poison into his ear and
betraying the country to foreign interests.â€•
Der Jude Ari Shavit schrieb im israelischen Haaretz-Nachrichtendienst vom 5. April 2002
folgendes:
â€žThe war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservatives intellectuals, most of them
Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. In the course of
the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town (Washington): the belief in war against
Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group or 25 or 30 neoconservatives,
almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, William
Kristol, Elliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate
one another and are convinced that political ideas are major driving force of history.â€•
Der Jude James Rosen schrieb in der kalifornischen Zeitschrift â€žThe Sacramento Beeâ€œ
vom 6. April 2003 folgendes:
â€žIn 1996, as Likud Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu prepared to take office, eight
Jewish neoconservative leaders sent him a six-page memo outlining an aggressive vision of
government. At the top of their list was overthrowing Saddam and replacing him with a
monarch under the control of Jordan. The neoconservatives sketched out a kind of domino
theory in which the governments of Syria and other Arab countries might later fall or be
replaced in the wake of Saddam's ouster. They urged Netanyahu to spurn the Oslo peace
accords and to stop making concessions to the Palestinians. Lead writer of the memo was
Perle. Other signatories were Feith, now undersecretary of defense, and Wurmser, a senior
adviser to John Bolton, undersecretary of state. Fred Donner, a professor of Near Eastern
history at the University of Chicago, said he was struck by the similarities between the
ideas in the memo and ideas now at the forefront of Bush's foreign policy.â€•
Der Jude Thomas Friedman, ein Kolumnist der jÃ¼dischen â€œNew York Timesâ€œ,
sagte am 4. April 2003 folgendes:
â€žI could give you the names of 25 people, all of whom are at this momet within a
five-block radius of this office, without whom, if you had exiled them to a desert island a
year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened. It is not only the
neo-concervatives who led us to the outskirts of Bagdad. What led us to the outskirts of
Baghdad is a very American combination of anxiety and hybris.â€•
Der Jude Henry Markow, Autor und Erfinder von â€žScruplesâ€œ, sagte am 10. Februar
2003 folgendes:
â€œIf the U.S. gets bogged down with heavy casualties on both sides, Americans are going
to blame big oil and Zionism for getting them into this mess. Everybody knows that: The
only country that fears Iraq's WMD's is Israel. American-Jewish neo-conservatives on the
Defence Policy Board (Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz) planned this war in 1998 and made
it Bush Administration policy. The purpose of the war is to change the balance of power in
the Middle East so Israel can settle the Palestinian issue on its own terms; and Congress
trembles in fear before the Israeli Lobby, â€ÃIPACâ€™. At this perilous juncture in US
history, there is no effective opposition because Zionist Jews appear to control both parties.
The Jewish "Anti Defamation League" considers it a barometer of anti Semitism to say,
"Jews have too much power." But is something anti-Semitic if it is true? Anti Semitism is
racial prejudice. Zionist power is not a racial prejudice; it is a fact of life. When a special
interest group hijacks American foreign policy, it is a patriotic duty to say so. In recent
decades, Zionists have succeeded in making support for Zionism synonymous with
"Jewish." They have made Israel appear to be a vulnerable country facing annihilation in a
sea of bloodthirsty Arabs. In fact, Israel has 200-400 nuclear bombs and is one of the most
powerful nations on earth. It has evaded many opportunities for a just peace because its
secret agenda is to dominate the region. Israel keeps this quiet because most Jews,
including Israelis, did not sign on for that.â€•
Bereits am 15. September 2002 schrieb Neil Mackay im â€œSunday Heraldâ€• unter dem
Titel â€œBush plante einen â€˜Regimewechselâ€™ im Irak schon vor seiner
PrÃ¤sidentschaftâ€• (Januar 2001), dass ein im September 2000 von dem â€žProject for
the New Centuryâ€œ (PNAC) verfasstes Dokument mit dem Titel â€žRebuilding
Americaâ€™s Defences: Strategies, Forces and Recources For A New Centuryâ€œ
offenbare, dass eine Bush-Regierung die militÃ¤rische Kontrolle der Golfregion
unabhÃ¤ngig davon anstreben wÃ¼rde, ob Saddam Hussein sich an der Macht befinde
oder nicht. Dieses Dokument beruhe, so weiter in diesem Artikel, auf einem noch
frÃ¼heren Papier der Juden Paul Dundes Wolfowitz und Israel Lewis Libby, in dem
gleichzeitig ein Regimewechsel in China (siehe â€ž6015â€œ), eine totale Kontrolle des
Internets (siehe â€ž6015â€œ) und zukÃ¼nftige vÃ¶lkerrechtswidrige Aggressionskriege
gegen Nord-Korea, Libyien, Syrien und der Iran erÃ¶rtert wÃ¼rden.
Spies?
Think "Powell," Bernhard, think "Colin Powell"--the one who tells us not to start shooting
until we're ready to overwhelm the enemy....
Bernhard: "The whole story is just too big and too complicated to be recapitulated here in
full".
Isn't that the best guarantee that it will not make much of a difference, at least until after the
election? If you cannot rephrase it in one catchy headline, it will drown due to
overcomplexity. Media-created outrage (is there any other these days?) focuses on very
simply things - like cutting it back to 'high treason'.
Uncle dollar-cam, here's your last paragraph in (hasty) translation:
As early as 9 Sept 2002, Neil Mackay wrote an essay in the Sunday Herald titled "Bush
planned a 'regime change' in Iraq before his presidency" (January 2001). Mackay wrote that
a PNAC-document titled "Rebuilding Americaâ€™s Defenses: Strategies, Forces, and
Resources for a New Century" unveiled that a Bush-government would seek to militarily
dominate the gulf region, no matter whether Saddam Hussein was in power or not.
According to Mackay, this document was based on an even earlier paper by the Jews Paul
Dundes Wolfowitz and Israel Lewis Libby; in this earlier document, a regime change in
China (see "6015"), a total control of the internet (see "6015") and future wars of
aggression violating international law against North-Korea, Libya, Syria, and Iran were
discussed.
@teuton:"The whole story is just too big and too complicated to be recapitulated here in
full".
It took some three hours to read what was available this morning and understand it. Given
more resources and time there will emerge a coherent picture.
This story will not die. It is too jucy and the folks involved have made to many enemies.
The sources cited include Tenet and other people who have every reason to keep it going.
I'm jumping again, because I haven't had time to read everything yet, but.....
Given the threads leading from Rome/Paris 2001/2 all the way back to Paris 1980, is it not
possible that the leaks have also been designed to inoculate against any and all possible
2004 versions of an October surprise?
Posted by: RossK | August 29, 2004 01:40 PM
Some more reads on the issue:
Laura Rozen site is currently overwhelmed (bandwidth exceeded) so I canÂ´t cite her. But
here are some of her thoughts.
Franklin had information that Iran is infiltrating Iraq to stop the oil export and to fight
Israeli services working in the Kurdish regions. Franklin couldnÂ´t made himself heard
within the administartion and did give this information to AIPAC so it would be given by
AIPAC to the NSC. AIPAC did so but also gave the information to the Israeli.
ThatÂ´s one take, but others reported that Franklin is investigated for further cases. Also
there are reports that these investigations started two years ago and that Franklin has been
turned by the FBI some month ago. The FBI may be aiming for higher people.It could also
be possible that this blow up now was premature, but all these sourcen on so many channels
and the timing look more like a concerted planed blow.
Some interesting bits from the Moonies UPI/Washington Times FBI probes DOD office:
A former very senior CIA official told United Press International that Rhode recently had
his security clearances lifted.
The source is of course Tenet. Rhode is also said to be on administrative leave.
intelligence official with the CPA as saying, "Rhode was observed by CIA operatives as
being constantly on his cell phone to Israel," and that the information that the intelligence
officials overheard him passing to Israel was "mind-boggling," this source said.
Ledeen "was carried in Agency files as an agent of influence of a foreign government:
Israel,"
Feith, then a Middle East analyst on the National Security Council, was fired by Judge
William Clark, who had replaced Richard Allen as national security adviser, because Feith
"had been the object of an inquiry into whether he had provided classified material to an
official of the Israeli Embassy in Washington" and that the FBI "had opened an inquiry."
Paul Wolfowitz, who an administration official described as having played a "large role in
getting Feith" his current job, was working for the Arms Control and Disarmament agency
in 1978 and was the subject of an investigation that alleged he had provided "a classified
document on the proposed sale of U.S. weapons to an Arab government to an Israeli
government official" via "an AIPAC intermediary," according to Green. The probe was
eventually dropped.
In 1981, Wolfowitz, who was working as head of the State Department Policy Planning
Staff, hired Ledeen as a Special Advisor, Green said.
Green is author of Serving Two Flags - Neo-Cons, Israel and the Bush Administration in
Counterpunch.
My take for now:
Wolfowitz and Perle manage to get a group of Israeli influence agents into the middle of
the US policy process and manipulate the US into war. Seeing their achievements they
become less careful and openly work with their masters from Tel Aviv breaking national
laws.
If this can be somehow proven, it is bigger than Iran/Contra. But it also can be played down
and may not end in front of a jury. What it does in any case is to severly damage the neocon
agenda and reputation and to distance the US from Israel Likut policy. That is allready
enough reason to open a bottle of exquisit French champagne.
.. many thanks for the resumÃ© B - and others. i don't keep up with these stories and am
happy to be able to get some grip on them ..
"double loyalty slur" WTF are they thinking? That was an awful slur 100 years ago, and it
was even obviously foolish in cases like Dreyfus when he was accused of working for
Germany "because he's Jewish", which was one of the stupidest reasoning I've ever seen,
outside of creationism. Now, there are a few facts that make the whole accusation of
anti-semitism quite moot, most of all the official Israeli "Right of return", which means that
every non-Israeli Jew is de facto a potential citizen. That's not a slur anymore, particularly
with people actually having the double US and Israeli citizenship. But there's no denying
that as long as this misdirected right of return exists, this will be a risk for Jewish people
outside Israel.
"Whats the difference in AIPEC, and PNAC?"
AIPAC wants Israel to be a major power and the US basically to be its (unknowing but
willing) vassal. PNAC wants the US to rule the whole world, with Israel as a faithful and
strong lieutenant, helping it when needed.
Oh, and Uncle$scam, it would be best not to link to drivel sites like that revisionist Nazi
one above. I mean, when you host articles about how "Jews killed 20 mio of German
prisoners during WWII", you kinda lose your credibility, don't you think? Actually, since
the guy seems to be German, there are some fine German legislations and law-enforcers I'd
quite like him to meet.
"the one who tells us not to start shooting until we're ready to overwhelm the enemy"
Coupling that with what JÃ©rÃ´me said, this would mean that a major shitstorm is about
to hit the GOP. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if there couldn't be a Powell-McCain axis,
with possibly a few other GOP honchos, and with the possible aim of having a
Powell-McCain ticket (in this way or reverse) for 2008. I say 2008 because it's a bit late for
a real palace coup that would oust Bushco before the end of the week.
Beside, I'm still waiting for the announcement of Tenet's book, but I'm not so sure it'll be
ready for the election.
All in all, like others, my feeling is that some powerful people (who take seriously their
duty to protect America first of all, even if it may hurt other allies) had enough and decided
to bring down a wide range of neo-cons - and screw the political consequences for
November.
There's also something else: there were military actions against Iran planned, if not a full
invasion. These leaks will obviously alert Tehran, effectively stopping in their tracks all the
warmongers. Some guys clearly think that Iraq is enough of a mess now not to add a way
bigger one.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | August 29, 2004 03:12 PM
@CJ
Maybe because
Hundreds of thousands of anti-Bush protesters have taken to the streets of New York City
on the eve of the Republican National Convention.
And this is from the Torygraph!
See yourself:
The caption under the pictire at the top of the article says:
A show of force: Iran displays its military might at the border with Israel
Geography anyone?
Newsweek And Now a Mole?
Bernhardt,
That is why Americans have wars, to learn geography.
BTW you seem to think this spy story will be a big deal. I am not so sure. I think it has
been released now so that it can get mixed up with the protests in New York. It will all go
away in a couple of days. No way will the "special relationship" be put in serious danger.
Posted by: Dan of Steele | August 29, 2004 04:16 PM
Kate Storm isn't around this afternoon so I'll go ahead and quote Ayn Rand:
"Never bother to examine a folly. Ask only what it accomplishes."
I posted an exerpt yesterday afternoon from Ted Galen Carpenter's 1992 book "The Search
for Enemies," in which he explains that the reason the first Bush administration declined to
march on Baghdad from Kuwait and, later, to aid the Kurds and the Shi'ites in an
anti-Saddam insurgency, is that the influence of the Shi'ite fundamentalist regime in Tehran
would have likely increased as a result, and the region destabilized. Destabilization and the
emboldening of religous fundamentalists were anathema to that administration.
Destabilization is not anathema to neoconservatives, who regard it as a necessary interim
state in pursuit of their chief foreign policy goal: a Middle East subservient to US (and, in
turn, Israeli) interests and wishes.
Whether Iraqi Freedom could have been "won" in the sense that a free and stable,
US-friendly state could be estabished in the place of the one that collapsed, will be the
subject of debate for a long, long time. But there is virtually no debate that the US
committed far, far too few troops to stability and security operations in the immediate
aftermath of the war. It's not like we couldn't spare them to the task; the troops were
available, and if getting them in position added more time to the whole long, drawn-out
build-up, it would hardly matter. We certainly weren't seeking any advantage of surprise.
So why the small number of troops? What was the imperative? What was to be gained by
it? We know that the administration did not send more troops to Afghanistan because they
were never convinced of the importance of the operation there. Iraq was always their
strategic and tactical focus in what would become the WoT. But, bizarrely, pains were not
taken to maximize their chances of mid- and long-term success, or to minimize the odds of
failure, by putting 400,000 troops on the ground early on.
Bush recently said in an interview that his administration "miscalculated" post-war
conditions in Iraq - and that those conditions were a result of unforseen swift victory. Yet
the swift victory was anything but unforseen; it was foreordained. In truth, he was sold a
defective scenerio - not by honest and experienced war-planners, who anticipated serious
trouble down the road - but by those with an agenda independent of his. (You can argue
with me about it.) That agenda includes a confrontation with Iran, for which Iraq is the
set-up.
Michael Ledeen has been saying for quite some time that success in Iraq - and in the WoT
generally - is not possible without bringing down the regime in Iran. And here we find
ourselves very, very unsuccessful - and wondering what to do other than chase around al
Sadr and play whack-a-mole with Ba'athist militias. Whaddya know.
Will a US-Iranian confrontation ever sell? We've already got that confrontation, on a lower
level, in Iraq - and who's to say that wasn't a part of the plan all along for those who, with a
straight face, have pretended to lament the ostensible failures of others?
Would the neoconservatives sacrifice this presidency to a backlash against a purposely
fucked-up operation, which then serves as the impetus for actively seeking regime change
in Iran?
Pat, that's a fresh and plausible take on IOF, given the perversity, patience and persistence
of the neo-cons. But (if I'm not mistaken) you also pass over your earlier take on Rumsfeld
(who's not exactly a neo-con)--viz., that he mainly saw IOF as a test for his mean and
speedy machine (whence all the Humvees, and other, field-inappropriate materiel). No
problem, of course, for the neo-cons--they just wanted to get there--but the military must be
appalled at having been trashed in this frivolous way. You've also said, I think, that we
don't have the forces to do that Iranian adventure, and if we don't, why would CENTCOM
let itself be trashed a second time? Or do the "civilians" run things as they please?
@Alabama:
If another one of theses fiascos were in the planning, I think a lot of the Army and Marine
staff at the Five-Sided Puzzle Palace would be busy putting the final touches on Plan Von
Stauffenberg.
Posted by: Trotsky's Ghost | August 29, 2004 08:11 PM
@alabama
We don't have the troops, but I expect the cap on troop levels to be raised by Congress at
least a couple of times - not, necessarily, with an eye toward Iran, but with a view to
providing relief for Iraq and Afghanistan.
Iran is a nasty operation no matter which way you look at it. Different country, radically
different story. Undoubtedly plans (maybe a handful of them) exist - if only because plans
exist for just about everything that might pop up. Undoubtedly, too, the neoconservatives
(among who are ex-military personnel) have an outline for regime change in Iran.
Then, Pat, the more urgent point I'm hearing is that someone--Bush or Kerry, it doesn't
matter which--will be hustled into Iran through the impetus arising from someone else's
having kicked off the fuck-up in Iraq. You may be arguing that both these guys are too
weak to say no to the neo-cons, and to walk away, slowly, slowly, from Iraq. If so, it's
another plausible point, but also pretty dark. If you'd be willing to point out a few more
scary things to fill out the picture, then it might becoming a compelling point as well.
Hey Pat ... I don't mind a Rand quote or two. Really I don't. I don't see the workings of
things, and the perfection of things in a Randian way, and I make no bones about that. ;-)
That quote seems a decent one. "Why" questions rarely reveal what the questioner really
wants to know. As her quote says, in the same way a more ancient source also implies is:
'tis better to ask Cui bono? Who benefits?
"In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if there couldn't be a Powell-McCain axis, with possibly a
few other GOP honchos, and with the possible aim of having a Powell-McCain ticket (in
this way or reverse) for 2008."
Neither is interested; both will be too old. The simpler explanation is that Powell is a tool,
and McCain is a true believer. Both clearly value loyalty over truth.
It is going to be Â¡JEB! in 2008, regardless of who wins or loses. Republicans are that
intellectually bankrupt.
Posted by: Tom DC/VA | August 29, 2004 11:37 PM
Do follies in the shrubbery require examining?
"...Bush recently said in an interview that his administration "miscalculated" post-war
conditions in Iraq - and that those conditions were a result of unforseen swift victory."
I agree with Pat that the post war situation is not due to the unforseen, at least with respect
to the "swift victory".
However, it could be argued that what was unforseen was the reaction of Iraqis themselves,
as opposed to the Bechtels and the Halliburtons, to the blitzkrieg-like economic shock
therapy that followed immediately on the heels of the military shock and awe.
Naomi Klein makes a clear and cogent argument that this was indeed the case in her piece
the Sept. Harpers in which she concludes:
"The fact that the (laisssez-faire economic) boom never came and Iraq continues to tremble
under explosions of a very diffrent sort should never be blamed on the absence of a plan.
Rather the blame rests with the plan itself, and the extraordinarily violent ideology upon
which it is based"
Pat:
"Destabilization and the emboldening of religous fundamentalists were anathema to that
[Bush 41] administration.
Destabilization is not anathema to neoconservatives, who regard it as a necessary interim
state in pursuit of their chief foreign policy goal: a Middle East subservient to US (and, in
turn, Israeli) interests and wishes."
---------
In a previous off topic thread Pat quoted the neocon_man Francis Fukayama in his The End
Of History And The Last Man:
"In a situation in which all moralisms and religious fanatacisms are discouraged in the
interest of tolerance, in an intellectual climate that weakens the possibility of belief in any
one docrine because of an overriding commitment to be open to all the world's beliefs and
'value systems,' it should not be surprising that the strength of community life has declined
in Islamic countries. This decline has occurred not despite liberal principles, but because
of them. This suggests that no fundamental strengthening of community life will be possible
unless individuals give back certain of their rights to communities, and accept the return of
certain historical forms of intolerance."
----As you can see... I boldly substituted in "Islamic coutries" for the word "America." Because
in the end, one really can't differentiate the shite coming out of a neocon mouth from the
ordure spewing from the gob of an Islamofacist.
In other words:
1)Destabilization--> YES.
2)Emboldening of religious fanaticism--> YES YES.
The neocons are an intellectual cancer on this planet. Shuffle in a different word here and
there and their rhetoric becomes indistinguishable from Osama's.
That's why I keep saying in different ways in different posts: The world is being led to
slaughter by the debauched idealism of three pschotic camps:
neocon-christian
islamo-binladen
likud-scheinermann
All war criminals. All guilty of sactioning massacres. All actively scheming to polarize the
planet even more.
Posted by: koreyel | August 30, 2004 12:26 AM
@clueless joe
Oh, and Uncle$scam, it would be best not to link to drivel sites like that revisionist Nazi
one above. I mean, when you host articles about how "Jews killed 20 mio of German
prisoners during WWII", you kinda lose your credibility, don't you think?
Not sure where you get the "revisionist Nazi" insinuation, that you say I linked to. As for
my credibility, I'm not really worried. Anybody whom reads my posts knows where my
passion and thinking is. I am neither left nor right. I am a transhumanist if I must use a
label.
Looking around this morning for updates to the mole story. Nothing in CNN which also
says tens of thousands of protesters in New York while Italian TV was reporting over
250,000. Nothing in Yahoo.
I guess it is old news already, released on a weekend and already burned out by Monday
morn.
Posted by: Dan of Steele | August 30, 2004 02:43 AM
Get your Coupons! lol...no really this is not spam.
here is a cover I'd like to see
Uncle $cam and Dan of Steel:
Thanks, I needed that!
Uncle, I wasn't speaking of your credibility, just of that site's credibility - just visit the front
page and see the stuff there; anyone who has an article that states that Nazis were great
occupiers and all was fine in France, as opposed to Evil Jews-inspired English, American
and Russian occupiers has some serious credibility issues, which are of course all the more
obvious when claiming WWII was basically a defensive war for Germany against genocide
by these pesky Jews. Even if you can get some genuine quotes and sometimes facts in
reivisonist and nazi sites, you can get them from more solid sources, basically. That was
just my friendly pointless opinion.
Dan: I'd pay for that cover!
Posted by: CluelessJoe | August 30, 2004 09:19 AM
!!!What koreyel said!!!!
@koreyel,
have you ever noticed that those three have in common the suppression of women first?
where did I read that, the Chalice and the Blade?
if we are going to beat these bastards, we have to free our own women citizens to help us
do it.
our male-dominated society will never value the earth, the laborors, the kids, the peace, etc
without women's political and financial participation.
Posted by: gylangirl | August 30, 2004 01:32 PM
or rather women's economic participation ...which is suppressed and ignored by GDP
calculations, 'secondary earner' tax requirements, social security benefit formulas etc.
uggabugga has a nice graphic to explain the complex story about the AIPAC spy case. Juan
Cole has also some new information.
gylangirl...
I like to think "we are going to beat these bastards."
Because I tend to believe this is their last hurrah.
In other words: this is their end time and they know it.
That's why they are fervid war mongers. It is their only hope of prolonging their rule.
Otherwise... they have little chance to maintain power--as the trends of history are all
progessive and their ideas are all dinosaurian.
So they are defunct unless they can funk up the world--thereby making their angry
personalities valuable.
As far as the repressing of woman by these three pychotic groups: I read your previous post
beneath mine on the Benign Social Genocide thread.
I haven't read much about fundamentalist jews oppressing woman.
One of these days you ought to collect your thoughts and links and elaborate on that.
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« Framing the Death of the Beast | Main | Rep Con 2004 »
Moon of Alabama: Framing the Death of the Beast
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Off Topics - Open Thread | Main | Blow Off »
August 27, 2004
Framing the Death of the Beast
"Starving the Beast", is the view that taxes should be cut in order to force severe cuts in
public spending. It is the unannounced policy of the Bush government and the Republican
party, camouflaged as supply-side economics. Here it is for once coming nearly
undisguised, delivered through an unsuspicious messenger.
First: take away what feeds the beast:
CNN - January 25, 2001 - Greenspan yes tax cuts
In testimony to the Senate Budget Committee, Greenspan declined to
comment on President Bush's $1.6 trillion, 10-year tax cut plan, saying a
decision on the size of a cut was best left up to Congress and the political
process. But the Fed chairman's backing of tax cuts as economically sound
likely will provide a boost to the new administration's proposals.
However, Greenspan played down the idea that tax cuts would provide an
immediate boost to the economy, saying that tax reduction is appropriate as
a long-term economic measure now because of estimates of a
larger-than-expected federal surplus."
Greenspan endorsed tax cuts - which are now proven to have gone mostly to the richer part
of the population - because there was a (perceived) budget surplus. First step taken.
Second step: bury the beast:
CNN August 27, 2004 - Greenspan: Aging to strain U.S.
"If we have promised more than our economy has the ability to deliver to
retirees without unduly diminishing real income gains of workers, as I fear we
may have, we must recalibrate our public programs so that pending retirees
have time to adjust through other channels," Greenspan said in prepared
remarks at an annual symposium.
...
Greenspan said raising payroll taxes to fund shortfalls in Social Security and
Medicare might only worsen the situation by imposing an extra burden on
workers.
Greenspan could have just reverted his 2001 position, but that would not fit his
masterâ€™s desire. He frames his statement to stifle the opposition. Saying "more than our
economy has the ability to deliver" stops any discussion about redistributing whatever the
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/framing_the_dea.html (1 von 6) [16.11.2004 18:44:43]
economy is able to deliver; "without unduly diminishing real income gains of workers"
suggests that this would be the only available option at hand - diminishing capital gains is
not mentioned; "raising payroll taxes" is framing to a single source of government income.
The whole statement also frames him: Greenspan, the man apprehensive of social needs
and workers.
There are other solutions at hand: Increase taxes for the wealthy, now as low as 1932. The
health care systems could be streamlined and the costs of medication lowered. Reducing
the defence budget would make for a safer world and free money for pensions.
But "Starving the Beast" is not meant as a threat to capital gainers, defence contractors or
the pharma industry, it is a threat to the majority of the country.
In a long 2003 article, Paul Krugman came to the conclusion:
The astonishing political success of the antitax crusade has, more or less
deliberately, set the United States up for a fiscal crisis. How we respond to that
crisis will determine what kind of country we become.
Comments
US gov't secrecy wastes money, erodes security, and locks up nonsensitive info
The OpenTheGovernment.org report on US government secrecy has just been published,
and boy are its conclusions harsh: the US government is $6.5 billion/year keeping stuff
secret (not counting the CIA budget, which is another secret), 90% of those documents
don't contain anything particularily secret, and the result is that government agenciies and
the public have their effective operations hamstrung because critical parts of the
information needed to get by have been classified.
Compounding the problems is the fact that the government can't seem to let go of secrets
that just aren't valuable any more. It took the CIA 20 years to declassify the fact that
Augusto Pinochet, Chile's dictator, had a taste for distilled wine. Overall CIA budgets from
decades back are still kept under wraps. And the pace of declassification has slowed since
9/11: 43 million pages in fiscal year 2003, as opposed to 100 million in 2001, according to
the ISOO. Not surprisingly, the amount of money spent on releasing information has also
slipped, from $231 million in 2001 to $54 million last year.
At the same time, the public thirst for government information seems to have risen. More
than 3.2 million requests for federal documents were made under the Freedom of
Information Act last year. That's about 1 million more than in 2001.
The cost of keeping secrets, according to OpenTheGovernment coordinator Rick Blum,
comes largely from maintaining the patchwork of databases and networks that hold the
government's sensitive information. Physical security of classified information has also
been a major cost -- and a major concern. The repeated misplacement of secret disks at Los
Alamos National Laboratory has shut down the nuclear weapons center for the last six
weeks. That means a big chunk of the lab's annual budget of $2.2 billion has been devoted
to the security lapses, so far. Those figures weren't included in the OpenTheGovernment
report card.
----
"Facism will come to America
in the guise of national security"
- Jim Garrison in 1967, the only man to bring
a suspect to court for the Kennedy assassination
Posted by: Uncle $cam | August 27, 2004 07:01 PM
Greenspeak is at it again. Calling for raising the retirement age and cuts in benefits for
boomers. I give. I will work until ninety.
The keynes model is the best model for economic growth. It worked perfectly until the
Gilded Age and 1920s economics passed into memory and the elite could again foist the so
called supply side economics on the American people.
Keynes makes two distinct points. To pump prime you must invest in public works. If the
governement is going to run deficits, it must be to build infrastructure for the coming uptick
in economic activity.
Second, unlike Freidman who tags inflation to to much money supply, Keynes realized that
money is merely an instrument for the exchange of goods and services. Thus, the amount of
money printed doesn't matter. In our current situation, with the fractional reserve system for
loaning money, and the monaterist view of money supply, there is never enough money in
circulation to pay off all loans. Thus, the system creates winners and losers when in many
instances it is not the fault of the loanee. Further, this creates boom and bust cycles that
must be used to clear excess unpayable financial burdens from the system.
All recessions are created. They are used to contract money supply and wipe books clean.
Understand the system is complex. This system of boom and bust has been forever, though,
they can soft land the economy and create much less severe bust cycles. Also, tax policy
plays a much greater roll than 100 years ago.
Are we all in Norquist's bathtub yet?
"our children will sing great songs about us years from now". -Richard Perle.
Great coinage @ Ross K: Norquist's bathtub ought to enter the vernacular.
Wonderful post @ Bernhard
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My mind keeps following tracers back to Molly Ivins' latest.
Her column is about the new overtime pay rules and how that is essentially a boot heel to
the left cheek of the middle class.
Greenspan's comments today are in essence a boot heel to the right check of the middle
class.
I really can't fathom what is going on in my country.
The passivity is more than disquieting. It is downright fascistic.
It seems to me when somebody steps on your current wealth and your future wealth one
would expect an action-reaction.
There is an old saying that when somebody throws a rock into a pack of dogs only the one
that gets hit yelps.
But lots of stones are being thrown here.
Lots of dogs are being hit.
I don't hear many yips or yaps.
There is an eerie silence in America right now, and it is deafening in its loudness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Molly Ivins column has undertones of her disgust with this passivity.
She concludes with this:
In this case, however, the reality check is in the numbers on your paycheck. Good luck now
and in the future on this one assholes. Oh, and do please relish the Bush line that this is a
gift to workers because comp time will give you more time with family.
Yeah...I added the word assholes.
But truly, I think the addition really captures her tone.
I grew up in the early 70s, and so the popular rebellions of the 60s is a powerful
secondhand memory for me.
I know Americans gave a damn back then. They fought the Nixon government and the
Vietnam war with their careers and their lives.
Those people are heros to me.
Somehow, somewhere, someplace along the line...someone killed America's ability to
produce heros.
We are less than free dogs today.
We are an obedient nation of second class dogs.
Even as I type...I hear a right-winger on a television podium shouting: Shut Up! Shut Up!
Shut up your fucking barking!
And then nothing...
but whimpers...
and mewlings...
Richard Burner of Morgan Stanley writes about Pension Tension
The defined-benefit pension plans of US companies are very seriouly underfunded for
several reasons. United Airlines is only one example how companies try to bail out of their
promisses. Pension assets of private companies are underfunded for some 350 billion. State
and local plans each at about the same size. ThatÂ´s 1 trillion the tax payer will be asked to
pick up and/or the retirees expect, but will not have. Greenspan will probably vote for the
second option.
Somehow, somewhere, someplace along the line...someone killed America's ability to
produce heros.
We are less than free dogs today.
We are an obedient nation of second class dogs.
The demise of the 4th estate and the rise of "reality TV" have contributed to this situation.
The "heros" that are "produced" are fictional sports and hollywood creations meant to
distract from the the struggles of everyday people against the system.
The real "heros" are out there, they have currently been silenced (no media coverage, or
gagged by the AG) and/or branded unpatriotic.
Posted by: sukabi | August 28, 2004 03:59 PM
Today from the Commerce Department:
July consumer spending up 0.8%
July consumer income up 0.1%
DoesnÂ´t add up somehow...
Incomes weakest in nearly 2 years
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« Off Topics - Open Thread | Main | Blow Off »
Moon of Alabama: Off Topics - Open Thread
And
must
have
whiskey
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« Your Weekly Terror Threat | Main | Framing the Death of the Beast »
August 27, 2004
Various Views and News ...
Comments
Karl said: "NEVER say these ads were bad!"
Ms. Bumiller: Do you think Senator Kerry lied about his war record?
THE PRESIDENT: I think Senator Kerry should be proud of his record.
Ms. Bumiller: But do you think he lied?
THE PRESIDENT: No, I don't think he lied, and I think that he ought to be proud of his
record. Let me talk about a larger issue, and that is 527s. I spoke to John McCain today,
and I think these ought to be outlawed. I thought they ought to be outlawed a year ago,
when I â€” whenever I signed the bill. I think they're bad for the system. And when you've
got people â€” you know, billionaires writing checks, large checks to try to influence the
outcome of the election. And so I â€”
Ms. Bumiller: But Mr. President, if you don't think he lied, why can't you talk about this
one ad, why can't you denounce it â€”
THE PRESIDENT: Elisabeth, 527s, 527s; the larger issue of 527s.
Ms. Bumiller: I'm talking about this smaller issue of this attack on Senator Kerry by Swift
Boat Veterans â€”
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I understand how Senator Kerry feels â€” I have been attacked by
527s, too. I think it's a â€” the issue is, let's get rid of them all. That's where we ought to be
â€” that's where this debate ought to be, how to get rid of this money that's flowing into the
system.
Ms. Bumiller: Can I just try one more time? You don't want to address that specific
advertisement. Will you condemn it?
THE PRESIDENT: All those ads ought to go, Elisabeth, every one of them, including the
ads that have been run on me. ...
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/off_topics_open_2.html (1 von 29) [16.11.2004 18:44:52]
Excerpts of an Interview With President Bush
Efforts continue ...
AR 15-6 Investigation of the Abu Ghraib Detention Facility and 205th
Military Intelligence Brigade - MG George R. Fay
(19) (U) Incident #19. SGT Adams, 470 MI GP, stated that sometime between
4 and 13 December 2003, ... she found DETAINEE-06 without clothes or
blanket, his wounds were bleeding and he had a catheter on without a bag. The
MPs told her they had no clothes for the detainee. SGT Adams ordered the
MPs to get the detainee some clothes and went to the medical site to get the
doctor on duty. The doctor (Colonel) asked what SGT Adams wanted and was
asked if he was aware the detainee still had a catheter on. The Colonel said he
was, the Combat Army Surgical Hospital (CASH) had made a mistake, and he
couldnâ€™t remove it because the CASH was responsible for it. SGT Adams
told him this was unacceptable, he again refused to remove it and stated the
detainee was due to go back to the CASH the following day. SGT Adams
asked if he had ever heard of the Geneva Conventions, and the Colonel
responded â€œfine Sergeant, you do what you have to do, I am going back to
bed.â€•
...
The â€œColonelâ€• has not been identified in this investigation, but efforts
continue.
Fay report
Global warming? We're on top of it!
Some Iraq news
Victory for Iraq
not yet
Thai troops start pull-out from Iraq
13 US soldiers wounded in Iraq attacks
The Five Points Of The Najaf Peace Agreement
Point 5: - All parties and political, social and ideological movements must join in a process
leading to general elections and total overeignty, and must create an environment
favourable to this process.
U.S. warplane bombs Fallujah neighborhood
Sistani Calls For Investigation Into Shooting On Demonstrators
Car bomb blasts near US convoy in Mosul
Clock in New York's Times Square Counts War Cost just US$ 2.05 (per millisecond)
Teacher Punished for Showing Abu Ghraib Photos in Class The truth is verboten! All
'lessons' must be filtered through the Ministry! Seig Heil mein Fuher!
Spy in the Defense Department
An Israeli spy high up in the Defense Department may have influenced American policy on
Iraq and Iran. Just brilliant:
The FBI believes there is an Israeli spy at the very highest level of the Pentagon, CBS
News reported on Friday. The Israeli embassy immediately denied the report.
The network said federal agents believed the spy may have been in a position to influence
Bush administration policy on Iran and Iraq.
"The FBI has a full-fledged espionage investigation under way and is about to ... roll up
someone agents believe has been spying not for an enemy but for Israel, from within the
office of the secretary of defense," the network reported.
as all the reports including fay make clear is the american army is a production line of col.
kurtz's
the madness, the utter madness of american culture is perverting what were once saintlier
cultures whether it was in latin america, south east asia & now in the middle east
what walt disney, johnny carson, leave it to beaver, father knows best & the last fifty years
of pornography that they call family entertainment has created men & women who cannot
tell good from evil. in any sense. they themselves as the waffen ss before them - are eveil
incarnate - because fundamentally the other is a subhuman & the subhuman does not matter
& it is not so strange because america itself to its own has mainted this barbaric edge - if
you are a loser or if ytou are outside the paradims of 'success' - you are vermin or worse
than vermin - you are not even considered
& this absence of humanity has a name & it has an ideology & it obviouslly has a practice
& this practice is beiong played out before our eyes
& next month it will be played out in iran, i suppose, i would not be surprised - there are
clearly no limits to the level of debasement of the empire
beautiful article by john berger in common dreams on the beauty of the anger of michael
moore on the site - common dreams
as wilhelm reich sd to get through to eros we have to go though the death instinct
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | August 27, 2004 07:28 PM
Here is the original re: AIPAC infiltration that U$ is talking about from CBS News
@Uncle $cam:
You weren't really surprised by that, were you?
@remembereringgiap:
Nice to see you back here.
@RossK:
Ditto above.
You weren't really surprised by that, were you?
haha...not in the least. What I was surprised about is that a major media reported it...
@UncleScam
double ditto.
(does that mean we've lost our heads?)
@RossK and Uncle $cam:
No, but I think I did a long time ago.
That was me at 1950.
Seriously though, I think I am approaching a place were I might be willing to consider that
this stooge story is nothing but a SpInversion to innoculate against the charge that the
PentaGogues actually actively sought out AIPAC input....
Regarding this....Uncle $cam wasn't there a story awhile back about the complete relaxation
of secuity and monitoring during visits by a certain state's officials to the Pentagon...
@RossK:
That's been well told by a USAF retired Lt. Col, a lady, by the name of Karen Kwiatkowski
Check archives at anti-war.com.
Thanks TG....
So are there any heavyweights in the SCLM looking for comments from Ms. Kwiatowski
right now?
I think it's Mueller, the one we never hear or see, who's taking the whole thing
down--applying his piano-wire to the wind-pipes of Cheney and Rumsfeld....
CNN tonight naming Wolfowitz and Feith as associates of the unnamed "the israeli spy" ...
amazing to see these tidbits come out ... esp just before the RNC - someone wants an
interesting news cycle heading to NYC
anybody up on their iran/contra history?
from the nyt:
The Pentagon analyst who officials said is under suspicion was one of two department
officials who traveled to Paris for a secret meeting with Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian
arms dealer who had been a central figure in the Iran-contra affair.
The Goddamn entire Bush regime is one gigantic security breach. To the Hague!
Posted by: uncle $cam | August 27, 2004 11:57 PM
Wasn't Ghorbanifar involved with BCCI?
Shoot Uncle,
Wow! somebody sure gave an almost unlimited hangout to the New Pravda....I think
alabama may be right re: the invisible hand moving towards the collective hyoid
bone...don't know who the character is specifically, but sure smells like somebody
associated with whoever ran Ledeen the first time around.
Posted by: RossK | August 28, 2004 12:04 AM
Colin Powell strikes back:
Larry Franklin
Harold Rhode
@ U$
Could this be it????
Three items from William Bowles' original October Surprise Cache....
Item #1
"October 29-30, 1980 - Richard V. Allen and George Bush meet in Paris, France with a
representative of Iranian Mohammad Beheshti, a key member of Iran's Hostage Policy
Committee (other key members were Rafsanjani and Khomeini's son). Bush and Allen give
Beheshti's representative bribe money to delay release of the 52 hostages until after the
1980 election (ie. to make sure Carter would not win)."
Item #2
" Why did Oliver North's friend, Donald Gregg, an assistant in Democratic President
Carter's National Security Council staff, accompany the alleged mission of Republican
George Bush to Paris in October 1980? Isn't it curious that Gregg is now (in 1988) Vice
President George Bush's national security advisor? "
Item#3
"...The former CIA operative, West Coast arms dealer Richard J. Brenneke, testified that he
was present at meetings in Paris on Oct. 19, 1980, attended by Bush and then-Reagan
campaign chairman William Casey, who became Reagan's CIA director.
Brenneke testified that others at the meeting were Donald Gregg, who later became Bush's
national security adviser; Richard Allen, national security adviser to Reagan; a
representative of Hashemi Rafsanjani, one of Khomeini's lieutenants and later speaker of
the Iranian Parliament; arms dealer Cyrus Hashemi; Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian
citizen with ties to the prime minister's office; and Robert Banes, of France."
If this is what the leak to the NYT is referring to, somebody could be going for the whole
ball of wax.....
btw....
here is the link to the Pravda leak and the precise quote is....
"....The Pentagon analyst who officials said was under suspicion was one of two
department officials who traveled to Paris for secret meetings with Iranian dissidents,
including Manucher Ghorbanifar, an arms dealer. Mr. Ghorbanifar was a central figure in
the Iran-contra affair in the 1980's...."
Now, just who are those "officials"?
Ross K
If you'd read the links between your fevered speculations....
From A Reverse Cold War, by Gordon Prather at antiwar.com:
...(A) Chinese company, Zhuhai Zhenrong Corporation, has just signed a long-term
agreement with the current Iranian regime to buy $20 billion worth of liquefied natural gas.
Zhenrong also imported 12.4 million tons of crude oil from Iran last year and expects to
complete deals soon to develop three Iranian oil fields.
As for Sudan, it is also oil rich, and the holder of the biggest oil development concession
from the current regime is China.
How about Russia?
Well, Russia would vigorously oppose a preemptive attack by Bush-Kerry or the Israelis on
the zillion-dollar nuclear power complex the Russians are building at Bushehr.
As for Iran's oil, Russia doesn't need it. But Russia does depend upon oil "swaps" with Iran
to get much of her Caspian region oil to market.
Both Russia and China expect Iran to be a big customer for their armaments.
Now, if Kerry-Bush want to change the regimes of other members of the Organization of
the Islamic Conference (OIC) â€“ such as Cameroon, Chad, Gambia, Guinea, Guyana,
Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Somalia, and Uganda â€“ neither Russia or China are
likely to object...
thanks Pat...
Was going too fast....
Rumsfeld Denies Abuses Occurred at Interrogations
on Thursday, in an interview with a radio station in Phoenix, Mr. Rumsfeld,
who was traveling outside Washington this week, said, "I have not seen
anything thus far that says that the people abused were abused in the process
of interrogating them or for interrogation purposes." A transcript of the
interview was posted on the Pentagon's Web site on Friday. Mr. Rumsfeld
repeated the assertion a few hours later at a news conference in Phoenix,
adding that "all of the press, all of the television thus far that tried to link the
abuse that took place to interrogation techniques in Iraq has not yet been
demonstrated." After an aide slipped him a note during the news conference,
however, Mr. Rumsfeld corrected himself, noting that an inquiry by three
Army generals had, in fact, found "two or three" cases of abuse during
interrogations or the interrogations process. In fact, however, the Army inquiry
found that 13 of 44 instances of abuse involved interrogations or the
interrogation process, an Army spokeswoman said. The report itself explicitly
describes the extent to which each abuse involved interrogations."
That man is under severe stress und badly briefed. He didnÂ´t even read the first paragraph
of the Schlesinger Report. I guess he is out and he knows it.
OK....
I've taken off that aluminum-lined, cast-iron head gear now.....and boy, was it heavy.....
From the NYT piece:
"...The secret meetings were first held in Rome in December 2001, were approved by senior
Pentagon officials and were originally brokered by Michael Ledeen, a conservative analyst
at the Washington-based American Enterprise Institute who has a longstanding interest in
Iranian affairs."
Sorry all for getting carried away, but at least my initial intuition re: Ledeen was on the
money...and regardless, it does truly appear to be the same old gang....
Atrios has fingered Harold Rhode or Larry Franklin in Feith's office based on this:
"...In a NEWSWEEK interview in Paris last month, Ghorbanifar, a former Iranian spy who
helped launch the Iran-contra affair, says one of the things he discussed with Defense
officials Harold Rhode and Larry Franklin at meetings in Rome in December 2001 (and in
Paris last June with only Rhode) was regime change in Iran."
Whew! Glad that fever broke...
Washington Post says it is Franklin: FBI Probe Targets Pentagon Official
The name of the person under investigation was not officially released, but
two sources identified him as Larry Franklin.
If it is Franklin, they can pretend all they want that it is not important because he wasn't in a
position to influence policy but that is a red herring because of this (from b's WaPo link
above):
"....the case is likely to attract intense attention because the official being investigated
works under William J. Luti, deputy undersecretary of defense for Near East and South
Asian Affairs. Luti oversaw the Pentagon's "Office of Special Plans," which conducted
some early policy work for the 2003 invasion of Iraq."
If it gets play, they're doomed I tell ya, doomed...
Just to correct some info on the text provided by Pat above:
...(A) Chinese company, Zhuhai Zhenrong Corporation, has just signed a long-term
agreement with the current Iranian regime to buy $20 billion worth of liquefied natural
gas. Zhenrong also imported 12.4 million tons of crude oil from Iran last year and expects
to complete deals soon to develop three Iranian oil fields.
LNG contracts are always over 20 years at least and the headline amount always sounds
big. 1b$/y of gas would be, at curent prices 8bcm/y (billion cubic meters). For reference,
US production is around 500bcm/y; total LNG trade is around 120bcm/y.
Iran has been trying to do LNG for several years now, but they still have not admitted to
themselves that they need Western technology to do that, and must offer something in
return (a small piece of the pie), so the projects are going nowhere. The contract with China
is more a promise to sell gas eventually than an actual contract, at that stage.
As for Sudan, it is also oil rich, and the holder of the biggest oil development concession
from the current regime is China.
True, (although the sale of Sudanese oil production should not be exagerated, it's a small
player). China has indeed been trying to court several oil-rich African countries, in order to
diversify their oil supplies.
How about Russia?
Well, Russia would vigorously oppose a preemptive attack by Bush-Kerry or the Israelis on
the zillion-dollar nuclear power complex the Russians are building at Bushehr.
Officially probably. Unoffocially, they probably would not mind selling the reactor a
second time to the Iranians...
As for Iran's oil, Russia doesn't need it. But Russia does depend upon oil "swaps" with Iran
to get much of her Caspian region oil to market.
False. It's not Russia that could take advantage of oil swaps with Iran, it's the "oilistans":
Turkmenistan (already doind it for small volumes, 10,000b/d) and Kazakhstan (thinking
about it, and wiating for Iran to increase the capacity of the pipeline form the coast to
Tehran). Russia is quite opposed to such swaps as they create an alternative (i.e. not going
through Russia) export route for these otherwise landlocked producers.
These oil swaps actually make a lot of economic sense, as Iranian uses its oil in the North,
and produces it in the south. So if you provide (close by) Caspian oil in the North, you do
not need to pump oil from the south up north, and you can instead export it (and additional
advantage for Iran is that it is a way for them to increase their oil exports without falling
foul of OPEC production quotas). There are some limits to these swaps: the capacity of
Iran's northern refineries is 800,000 b/d, which would be the absolute cap; and
additionnally they are not perfectly suited to the technical specs of Caspian oil, so would
require some investments to use it.
The more interesting dynamic between Russia and Iran is on the natural gas side. Russia
has 40% of world reserves, and Iran 30%. Russia is the largest gas producer in the world,
and has pretty much cornered the European gas market. Iran produces almost no gas, has no
market for it (no transport infrastructure), and its biggest asset, the south Pars/ North Field
it shares with Qatar, is busily being exploited by Qatar while they dither. Russia is quite
happy to keep them in this state of hesitation, powerlessness and "marketlessness" while
pretending to help them...
Both Russia and China expect Iran to be a big customer for their armaments.
Now, if Kerry-Bush want to change the regimes of other members of the Organization of
the Islamic Conference (OIC) â€“ such as Cameroon, Chad, Gambia, Guinea, Guyana,
Mali, Mozambique, Niger, Nigeria, Somalia, and Uganda â€“ neither Russia or China are
likely to object...
Cameroon, Chad, (Equatorial) Guinea, Nigeria have (a lot of) oil. Niger has yellowcake...
Argentina End US Domination
Police fire to disperse anti-U.S. protesters in Kashmir
6,000 in Athens protest U.S. Iraq policy
Powell Cancels Greece Visit Amid Protests
Proposal to replace US troops in Iraq with Muslims stalls
British envoys under siege in Basra
Five killed, 32 wounded in US airstrikes in Fallujah
U.S. Battles Militants in Baghdad Slum
Juan Cole has a very conclusive rant about the DoD / Israeli spy case and the general
influence of AIPEC.
Israeli Spy in Pentagon Linked to AIPAC
The Founding Fathers of the United States deeply feared that a foreign
government might gain this level of control over a branch United States
government, and their fears have been vindicated.
The situation has reached comedic proportions. Congress is always drafting
letters to the president, based on AIPAC templates, demanding that lopsided
US policy in favor of Israel be revised to be even more in favor of Israel.
...
AIPAC currently has a project to shut up academics such as myself, the same
way it has shut up Congress, through congressional legislation mandating
"balance" (i.e. pro-Likud stances) in Middle East programs at American
Universities. How long the US public will allow itself to be spied on and
pushed around like this is a big question. And, with the rise of international
terrorism targeting the US in part over these issues, the fate of the country
hangs in the balance.
If al-Qaeda succeeds in another big attack, it could well tip the country over
into military rule, as Gen. Tommy Franks has suggested. That is, the fate of
the Republic is in danger. And the danger comes from two directions, not just
one. It comes from radical extremists in the Muslim world, who must be
fought. But it also comes from radical extremists in Israel, who have key allies
in the US and whom the US government actively supports and against whom
influential Americans are afraid to speak out.
If I had been in power on September 11, I'd have called up Sharon and told
him he was just going to have to withdraw to 1967 borders, ore face the full
fury of the United States. Israel would be much better off inside those borders,
anyway. It can't absorb 3 million Palestinians and retain its character, and it
can't continue to hold 3 million Palestinians as stateless hostages without
making itself inhumane and therefore un-Jewish. And then I'd have thrown
everything the US had at al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, and frog-marched Bin
Laden off to justice, and rebuilt Afghanistan to ensure that al-Qaeda was
permanently denied a base there. Iraq, well, Iraq was contained.
Thanks, Jerome, for the corrections and additional information regarding Prager's
assessment.
I considered adding a "Jerome could weigh in" note at the end of the exerpt, but figured
you'd be by sooner or later to comment on it.
Pat, you're welcome!
China is going to need more watching. Going from being a small exporter to being the
second largest importer in just a couple of years is going to have massive geopolitical
consequences. expect them to accelerate the build up of their ocean-faring navy, and to
have a much more assertive diplomacy in places like the Middle East and Africa, amongst
other things.
Do you have any insights on that Israeli spy/leak story? It sounds pretty confusing at this
point. why leak to AIPAC when you have strong (and openly) pro-Likudniks framing US
policy at the very top of the administration?
I have to agree with Uncle $cam in that I too am amazed that the spy story is in the
mainstream media.
Might be a red herring to distract us from some other stuff like the buildup of protests to the
Republican Convention in New York.
Even though the Washington Post suspects Franklin, I noticed that Rhode was a strong
supporter of Chalabi. Could it be that he (Rhode) is getting paid back for his arrogance by
the CIA who wanted their guy Allawi in power?
It would give me a warm feeling to know that Rhode and Pollard are sharing a cell, it
would be even nicer if that cell were in Guantanamo where they rightly deserve to be.
Connect the Dots!
Thatcher's son arrested in SA for coup attempt in EG during the week.
Three breaking items today.
GOP (WH) tell Howard to stop criticising Blair.
FBI break an Israeli spy scandal.
Chalabi offices raided in Baghdad.
The Lizards are going to have a Civil War?
why leak to AIPAC when you have strong (and openly) pro-Likudniks framing US policy
at the very top of the administration?
Because the AIPAC members involved made good conduits of sensitive information.
Because the proposed policy toward Iran contained details disappointing or disturbing to
some.
Because the passed information would provide
opportunity for counteraction on the other end.
Speculation on my part.
SUSPICION LEADS TO MORE SUSPICION
In brief, once a government has n orders of secret police
spying on each other, all are potentially suspect, and to be safe, a
secret police of order n plus 1 must be created. And so on,
forever.
Thus games without end
Thus, the USSR after 62 years of Marxist secret police games
reached the point where the alpha males were terrified of painters
and poets.
In spying-and-hiding transactions, worry leads to more worry
and suspicion leads to more suspicion. The very act of participating,
however unwillingly, in the secret police game-even as
victim, or citizen being monitored-will eventually produce all
the classic symptoms of clinical paranoia.
The government, on discovering that growing numbers of
citizens regard it with fear and loathing, will increase the size
and powers of the secret police, to protect itself.
The infinite regress again appears.
The only alternative was suggested sarcastically by playwright
Bertolt Brecht (who was hounded by U.S. secret police as
a communist and by East German secret police, later, as not
sufficiently communist). "If the government doesn't trust the
people," Brecht asked innocently, "why doesn't it dissolve them
and elect a new people?" No way has yet been invented to elect a
new people, so the government will instead spy on the existing
people with increased vigor.
Every secret police organization is engaged in both the collection
of information and the production of misinformation, euphemistically
called "disinformation." That is, you score points in
the secret police game both by hoarding signals (information
units)-hiding facts from competitors-and by foisting false
signals (fake information units) on the other players. This creates
the situation I call Optimum SNAFU, in which every player has
rational (not neurotic) reasons for suspecting that each and all
may be trying to deceive him, gull him, con him, dupe him and
generally misinform him. As Henry Kissinger is alleged to have
said, anybody in Washington who isn't paranoid must be crazy.
Such is the neuro-sociological "logic" of a Disinformation
Matrix. It is, as Paul Watzlawik has demonstrated, the logic of
schizophrenia.
Welcome to schizophrenia Nation...
this leads to an equal and opposite burden of omniscience
upon those at the top, in the eye of the pyramid. All that is
forbidden to those at the bottom-the conscious activities of
perception and evaluation-is demanded of the Power Elite, the
master class. They must attempt to do the seeing, hearing,
smelling, etc. and all the thinking and evaluating for the whole
pyramid.
But a man with a gun (the power to punish) is told only what
the target thinks will not cause him to pull the trigger (write the
pink slip, order the court-martial). The elite, with their burden of
omniscience, face the underlings, with their burden of nescience,
and receive only the feedback consistent with their own preconceived
notions and reality-tunnels. The burden of omniscience
becomes, over time, another and more complex burden of
nescience. Nobody really knows anything anymore, or if they do,
they are careful to hide the fact. The burden of nescience
becomes omnipresent. More and more of sensory experience
becomes unspeakable.
As Paul Watzlawick notes, that which is objectively repressed
(unspeakable) soon becomes subjectively repressed (unthinkable).
Nobody likes to feel like a coward and a liar constantly. It
is easier to cease to notice where the official tunnel-reality
differs from existential fact. Thus SNAFU accelerates and rigiditus
bureaucraticus sets in-the last stage before all brain activity
ceases and the pyramid is clinically dead as an intellectual entity.
We also propose that "national security" is another semantic
spook, an Empedoclean knot; that the search for national security
Prometheus Rising 243
is the chief cause of national insecurity and a potent anti-intelligence
mechanism.
As Leary writes:
Secrecy is the original sin. Fig leaf in the Garden of Eden. The
basic crime against love... The purpose of life is to receive,
synthesize and transmit energy. Communication fusion is the
goal of life. Any star can tell you that. Communication is love.
Secrecy, withholding the signal, hoarding, hiding, covering up
the light is motivated by shame and fear.
As so often happens, the right wing is half right for the
wrong reasons. They say primly: if you have done nothing
wrong, you have no fear of being bugged. Exactly. But the
logic goes both ways. Then FBI files, CIA dossiers, White
House conversations should be open to all. Let everything
hang open. Let government be totally visible. The last, the
very last people to hide their actions should be the police and
the government.
What my eminent colleague states so poetically can be stated
more functionally as follows:
Every secret police agency must be monitored by an elite
corps or secret-police-of-the-second-order. This is because
(a) infiltration of the secret police, for purposes of subversion,
will always be a prime goal of both internal subversives and
hostile foreign powers and (b) secret police agencies acquire
fantastic capacities to blackmail and intimidate others, in and out
of government. Stalin executed three chiefs of the secret police
in a row because of this danger. As Nixon so wistfully said in a
Watergate transcript,
Well, Hoover performed. He would have fought. That was the
point. He would have defied a few people. He would have
scared them to death. He had a file on everybody. [Italics
added.]
Thus, those who employ secret police agencies must monitor
them, to be sure they are not acquiring too much power.
Here a sinister infinite regress enters the game. Any elite
second order police must be, also, subject to infiltration, or to
acquiring "too much power" in the opinion of its masters. And so
it, too, must be monitored, by a secret-police-of-the-third-order.
244 Prometheus Rising
In brief, once a government has n orders of secret police
spying on each other, all are potentially suspect, and to be safe, a
secret police of order n plus 1 must be created. And so on,
forever.
In practice, of course, this cannot regress to mathematical
infinity, but only to the point where every citizen is spying on
every other citizen or until the funding runs out.
National Security, in practice, must always fall short of the
logically Empedoclean infinite regress it requires for perfect
"security." In that gap between the ideal of "One Nation under
surveillance with wire taps and urine tests for all," and the
strictly limited real situation of finite resources and finite funding,
there is ample encouragement for paranoias of all sorts to
flourish, both among the citizens and among the police.
THE BURDEN OF OMNISCIENCE
or: Why you can't reach the Court
or the Castle in Kafka's allegories
Thus, the USSR after 62 years of Marxist secret police games
reached the point where the alpha males were terrified of painters
and poets.
Prometheus Rising 245
In spying-and-hiding transactions, worry leads to more worry
and suspicion leads to more suspicion. The very act of participating,
however unwillingly, in the secret police game-even as
victim, or citizen being monitored-will eventually produce all
the classic symptoms of clinical paranoia.
The agent knows who he is spying on, hut he never knows who
is spying on him. Could it be his wife, his mistress, his secretary,
the newsboy, the Good Humor man?
If there is a secret police at all, in any nation, every branch
and department of government, and institutions which are not
even admitted to be parts of government, becomes suspect in the
eves of cautious and intelligent people as a possible front for, or
tunnel to, the secret police. That is, the more shrewd will recognize
that something bearing the label of HEW or even International
Silicon and Pencil might actually be the CIA or NSA in
disguise.
In such a deception network, conspiracy theories proliferate.
Rumor is necessary, it has been found, when people cannot find
"official" news sources that can be trusted to tell them what is
really going on. The present author, having worked in the civil
rights movement, the anti-war movement, the legalize-pot
movement and other dissident causes, has repeatedly been
approached by friend A with dire warnings that friend B is
almost certainly a secret police agent, only to be told later and
independently by friend C that friend A is a secret police agent.
It requires delicate neurological know-how to keep one's sense
of humor in the secret police matrix.
The more omnipresent the secret police, the more likely it is
that intelligent men and women will regard the government with
fear and loathing.
The government, on discovering that growing numbers of
citizens regard it with fear and loathing, will increase the size
and powers of the secret police, to protect itself.
The infinite regress again appears.
Let us examine, again, why the first Bush administration did not proceed from Kuwait to
Baghdad:
...Washington would have shed few tears at Saddam's departure from power. U.S. officials
were equally concerned, however, about what would replace his regime. A new
government drawn from the same Sunni Moslem elite that had spawned Saddam was
acceptable to the administration, since that elite was committed to preservering Iraqi unity no small task given that country's contending ethnic and religious factions - and to
opposing the influence of Iran's fundamentalist regime. As columnist William Safire noted
with acerbic accuracy, "Mr. Bush has made it known that he wants a military junta to oust
Mr. Hussein and continue 'stable' Sunni domination of the other three-fourth of Iraq."
...Washington's caution was reinforced by its suspicions of the Shi'ites political agenda.
Although it would have been an oversimplification to portray Iraqi Shi'ites as puppets of
Tehran, several leaders did have ties with that government. Since the Shi'ites were
concentrated in the south of Iraq near the Iranian border, there was the possibility that the
insurgents might attempt to establish a separate republic in that region. Even if they were
willing to keep Iraq intact, they would undoubtedly attempt to create a Baghdad-Tehran
axis. That was not a prospect that Washington relished. The primary reason the United
States had aided Iraq during its war with Iran was precisely to prevent the expansion of
Tehran's influence. Furthermore, Washington's ally Saudi Arabia did not welcome the
prospect of a radical Shi'ite government on its borders.
Given the Bush administration's fondness of stability, the failure to support the
Shi'ite-Kurdish uprising in March and April 1991 was consistent with its overall policy
toward the gulf region. With U.S. assistance, that rebellion might have succeeded in
toppling Saddam, but it also threatened to fragment Iraq and create greater regional
instability.*
*From "A Search for Enemies, America's Alliances After the Cold War," by Ted Galen
Carpenter; the Cato Institute; 1992
@ uncle
an so the media would call this "group think"
the 40 billion $ intelligence monolith, that does
not realize that ground shaking, ear shattering,
90 mile an hour freight train with its head light
blinding the eyes
is on the same track as us
uncle, you made my day, thanks for that!
From "The Desert Fox," by William Lind at antiwar.com:
... (T)he U.S. finds itself fighting a two-front war, one front against the Shi'ite Mahdi Army,
the other against the Sunnis in Anbar Province. The U.S. Marine Corps has blanked out the
news from that front, but the reported toll of Marine casualties seems to be rising. To a
student of German military history such as myself, two-front wars can bring unhappy
memories.
The scene is almost illegible. Why, for example, do we know the names of sixty or seventy
neo-cons in high places, but the names of only six or seven of their antagonists? The
antagonists don't make the news. Either they don't exist, or they're thoroughly schooled in
the arts of invisibility. I'm inclined to support the latter hypothesis, if only because the State
Department and CIA learned, during the McCarthy era, that survival depended on being
invisible (I watched them "vanish" with my very own eyes). Something like this is
happening with the Bush campaign: now that they've decided to go centrist--Rove would
have figured this out a month ago--they put it out to the NYTimes that he, Bush, is running
the campaign! So I don't expect to see or hear the name of "Rove" for the next eight
weeks--just the names of Hughes, and Card, and Bush, folks who don't know the first thing
about polling or focus-group testing (but of course I'm just guessing here, because the scene
is almost illegible).
@alabama
No, it's not illegible. You have high expectations for personality-driven
counter-neocon-warfare, but it's not where you think, or hope to, find it.
Ops, Sorry mate
Where then, Pat, would it be found? Or is it not to be found at all? (Maybe it's staring me in
the face, like "the purloined letter"--another kind of "illegibility," I suppose)....
(T)he U.S. finds itself fighting a two-front war, one front against the Shi'ite Mahdi Army,
the other against the Sunnis in Anbar Province. The U.S. Marine Corps has blanked out the
news from that front, but the reported toll of Marine casualties seems to be rising.
Some news on the Anbar front in tomorrows NYT In Western Iraq, Fundamentalists Hold
U.S. Forces at Bay
Fallujah and Ramadi are enemy territory. The governement has not a bit of control. Some
cruel details how the fundamentalists kill governers and US spies. Some thoughts of US
commanders to flatten Falluja.
Both of the cities, Falluja and Ramadi, and much of Anbar Province, are now
controlled by fundamentalist militias, with American troops confined mainly
to heavily protected forts on the desert's edge. What little influence the
Americans have is asserted through wary forays in armored vehicles, and by
laser-guided bombs that obliterate enemy safe houses identified by scouts who
penetrate militant ranks. Even bombing raids appear to strengthen the
fundamentalists, who blame the Americans for scores of civilian deaths.
...
American commanders confess they have no answers in Anbar, and say their
strategy is to curb the militants' ability to project their violence farther afield,
especially in Baghdad, only 35 miles east of Falluja.
...
But leaving the militants in control could pose a disabling threat to American
political plans, which may already have been shaken more than American
officials will admit by events in Najaf. Top American officials say that events
there, with Moktada al-Sadr's militiamen finally driven from the Imam Ali
shrine, have set the stage for a turn in American fortunes across the Shiite
heartland of Iraq. But even there the prospects seem deeply clouded by the
failure to effectively disarm Mr. Sadr's surviving fighters as they left the shrine
with shouldered rifles and donkey carts loaded with rockets...
No word on Samarra which was mentioned elswhere as also being out of control.
Geez, it never ends...
Public's Right to Know video censored by Justice Dept
Michael filed a Freedom of Information Act request the the Justice Department to get it to
release a movie called "The Public's Right to Know." The Department released part of the
video, but redacted sections of it, claiming that since the video had been produced by a
private contractor who hadn't assigned copyright to the feds, they didn't have the right to
release it to him. How convenient. There's a reason that the feds aren't allowed to copyright
the stuff they make with our tax dollars: it's stupid and dirty and irresponsible as hell to
circumvent that duty to make the public's bought-and-paid material available to the public
by failing to negotiate the rights when contracting out to the private sector.
On the spy case Franklin for Israel, Laura at "War and Piece" has the broadest information:
The FBI investigation
b, isn't there a website somewhere that records the fatalities in Iraq?
icasualties.org
Casualties in Iraq
@ Pat-again, thanks for forcing me back to rationality last night...
wrt AIPAC, is it not possible, as Juan Cole and, (I think) 'b' are suggesting, that the conduit
may actually be working the other way around (or, at the very least bidirectionally)?
also, would be interested hear why you don't agree with alabama...me, I have tried pretty
hard to find holes in his hypothesis, but over the last few months a number of his
predictions predicated on same have come to pass.
In yeserday's edition of the Forum (forum.com):
Forward Forum
An Unwavering Commitment To Reforming the Middle East
By John Kerry
August 27, 2004
@alabama, RossK
This isn't the Great Un-Doing of the Neoconservative Cabal, nor is it a part of the Great
Un-Doing. They're smart operators and they do know the law.
Either Franklin is a dirt-dumb cowboy who poses a serious danger to their cause (which I
doubt) or there's far less to this story than initially reported.
Correction:
The Kerry piece is in the Forward (forward.com).
Pakistan Losing Grip on Extremists
Attacks on Officials Linked to Al Qaeda
By John Lancaster and Kamran Khan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, August 29, 2004; Page A01
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- A recent series of assassination attempts on high-level officials
here is the result of a growing and deadly alliance between Pakistani extremists and
second-rung al Qaeda operatives from Arab countries and Central Asia who use the border
area with Afghanistan as a refuge, according to senior Pakistani intelligence sources.
The development is a disquieting one, foreign diplomats said, because it suggests that
Pakistan's security services may be losing control over home-grown militants they once
embraced as allies, first in the struggle against the Soviets in Afghanistan and more recently
against Indian forces in Kashmir.
An attack on Lt. Gen. Ahsan Saleem Hayat, a top military commander, on June 10 was
conducted by Pakistani assailants who later confessed they had been trained in small arms,
explosives and conducting ambushes at an al Qaeda camp in Pakistan's rugged tribal region
of South Waziristan, near the Afghan border, according to two senior intelligence officials.
The gunmen identified their instructors as Uzbeks and Arabs.
The Pakistani extremists, disguised in military-style uniforms, attacked Hayat as they
waited in a stolen van in the port city of Karachi near a bridge frequented by military
officials, then opened up with machine guns on his motorcade.
Hayat survived the carefully planned ambush, but 11 others were killed, including his
driver. The assailants were quickly identified and rounded up, traced through a cell phone
left at the scene, authorities said.
Pakistani officials said they believed that foreign al Qaeda operatives working with
Pakistani militants were also behind two attempts to kill Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's
president, in December.
The same combination, they said, may have carried out the July 30 assassination attempt
against Shaukat Aziz, then the finance minister, who became prime minister on Saturday...
Josh Marshall and Laura Rozen finally lay it all out in the Washington Monthly. Yes,
indeed. Tectonic plates shifting.
Iran-Contra II?
My guess is they published early -- just an hour or so ago -- because of the CBS story.
Pat, the neo-cons are very smart indeed, but they've also alienated a few people, and so I
expect to see them decapitated in the near term. Or more precisely, I know that I WANT to
see them decapitated in the near term--and so I'm bound at the least to find out how much
my "thinking" is based on desire....You, as a practiced interrogator, would certainly find out
rather quickly whatever I had to offer--of this I'm pretty confident....And I also recall
having bet some $500 last New Year's Eve that Howard Dean would win the election by 70
electoral votes: my conviction on that particular point was truly unshakeable....
What an upside-down world this is. British Tory Leader banned from the White House!?
Howard fury over White House ban
Susan, how did you access the Iran-Contra II article. I only receive an error message that
the page can not be found and can not find it when I go directly to the Washington
Monthly.
Ooops, sorry Susan, just found it with a few detours - as usual my impatients was at the
forefront. Here the link again, just in case.
Iran-Contra II? - Fresh scrutiny on a rogue Pentagon operation.
Right you certainly are, Fran--upside-down is the thing. So I pick up tomorrow's NYT and
WaPo, and what should I find there but lots of worried, wrathful Republicans, and a
back-pedalling Karl Rove who talks about leaving the White House after November
....Since we have to come up with a reading, no matter how wrong it may be, I'll volunteer
the following: since Rove's own numbers are showing that Bush will lose in November, the
only game left to play is to limit the Party's damage--no losing of the Senate, please, and
hold on to all those House seats! Bush himself will be toxic for lots of candidates, so he'll
probably run on his lonesome....McCain's been a very good boy, so he'll get the nod for the
election in 2008.
Footnote to the above: it would seem that this gang never really left Texas in the first place,
any more than LBJ ever left Texas, which is why they flamed out so quickly, and pulled us
into a losing war on the way....The moral of the story? No more Presidents from Texas, if
you please.....But how to make sure this happens? If Molly Ivins were to agree, I'd like to
suggest that we let Mexico annex the state of Texas; among other things, it will let the
Mexicans re-cycle the Alamo as their very own Bunker Hill Monument.
Hey Alabama, Rove et al will are being fitted for orange suits for the big house and they
know it. Rove could be planning a quick getaway to an extradition free zone. The question
is will he leave before or after the election.
And another question, all this stuff (Israel spies, Iranian spies, Plame, Edmonds, 9/11
"official story" falling apart, Iraq quagmire, Abu Ghraib, Halliburton, Bush AWOL, ect.,
ect., ect.) seems to be coming to a head, so will the Bush implosion happen before the
election? and if so who is the republican running in bushes place? Since Illinois can put a
candidate that isn't a resident of the state on its' ballot for senator, it seems to me that the
logical thing for them to do is outsource their choice for president, so which foreigner
would the republicans replace bush with?
Posted by: sukabi | August 29, 2004 04:13 AM
For Sunday starters a funny piece by Michael Kinsley in the Washington Post George
Bush's Secret War
Veterans of George W. Bush's National Guard unit charged today that the
president has misrepresented his military service during the Vietnam War. The
veterans allege that during a period when the future president was supposed to
be serving in the Texas Air National Guard, he was actually fighting in
Vietnam.
...
The White House yesterday strongly denied the Stiff Drink version of events.
"As has been his policy throughout his entire life," a spokesman said, "the
president never left the continental United States during the entire Vietnam era
-- well, except for a few weekends in Tijuana.
...
The Stiff Drink group, however, insists that Bush was actually flying sorties
over Hanoi. And doing it without a plane. In the end, it is their word against
his. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. And the full story of
George Bush's secret war in Vietnam will never be known.
Iraq:
â€˜Peaceful Options Not Exhaustedâ€™
Iraqâ€™s top Shiite authority yesterday said peaceful options for resisting
US-led presence in the country were not exhausted yet. The announcement
was made after a meeting at the house of Grand Ayatollah Ali Husseini
Al-Sistani in Najaf.
The meeting of the group known as the Marjaiya came a day after armed
followers of Moqtada Sadr vacated the Imam Ali Mosque.
â€œA main concern of the Marjaiya since the beginning has been for the
government and the police to take control of the city and establish the rule of
law,â€• a spokesman for Grand Ayatollah Bashir Al-Najafi said.
â€œWe are not out of peaceful solutions yet to end the occupation. But
when we are, no more words will be spoken, and armed struggle will become
a possibility,â€• warned spokesman Sheikh Ali Najafi.
When their will be no election in Iraq in January - and I do not expect one - the Marjaiya
will decide to take up arms.
Pat above linked to Pakistan Losing Grip on Extremists
combine with
Pakistan Arrests Suspect in Plot
India Test Fires Nuclear-Capable Missile
Ten dead in Afghanistan bomb blast: US military
there is something nasty to happen in a unruly part of the world.
Well, sukabi, since I'd like to see Mexico annex Texas--or, more precisely, that part of
Texas that was recently annexed by the Republican Party--I'd urge the Republicans to
outsource their Illinois senate candidacy to Vicente Fox....Dual citizenship in Illinois and
Mexico--wouldn't this help make the governing of a newly-annexed Texas just a little more
manageable? It could help Fox abolish the death penalty, for example....
He told police that he grabbed De Lima to prepare for the second coming of Christ. "He
seems to be suffering from psychological problems," a police official told Reuters.
Psychological problems?
Oh Mr. Policeman please, tell me--How does one distinguish between a psychotic and a
religious fundamentalist?
Sovereign government in Iraq
In Baghdad's volatile Shiite neighborhood of Sadr City, the American
military met for five hours with representatives of the rebellious cleric
Moktada al-Sadr today, searching for peace in a zone where the cleric's ragged
army remains well armed, entrenched and defiant.
...
[The] Baghdad representative of Mr. Sadr, .. said he was scheduled to hold
more talks tonight with officials of the interim Iraqi government.
U.S. Military Makes Peace Effort in Volatile Section of Baghdad
A Real Patriot:
Columnist Has Ties to Anti-Kerry Book
Among the stoutest defenders of "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans
Speak Out Against John Kerry," the best-selling book arguing that Mr. Kerry
lied about his record of service in Vietnam, is the columnist Robert Novak.
In his syndicated columns and on the CNN program "Crossfire," Mr. Novak
has lauded the book and referred to veterans who criticize Mr. Kerry - most
notably John E. O'Neill, the book's co-author - as "real patriots."
Unmentioned in Mr. Novak's columns and television appearances, however, is
a personal connection he has to the book: his son, Alex Novak, is the director
of marketing for its publisher, the conservative publishing house Regnery.
From Defense and the Naional Interest (d-n-i.net)
The Sanders Hypothesis:
Will War Offset the Deteriorating Financial Position of the United States?????
August 27, 2004
Comment# 522
Discussion Threads - Comments: #518 & 519
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------The welfare of future generations in the United States is threatened by growing financial
imbalances and associated indebtedness. The twin deficitsâ€”the federal budget and our
national balance of paymentsâ€”reflect a breakdown in our political and economic
processes and perhaps even the social contracts that glue our society together.
The worsening federal budget deficit reflects a failure to choose, and since politics is about
choice, the federal deficit is a manifestation of political failure. Left unchecked, this
political failure will eventually cause politicians to renege on the current social contracts
between the generations, like Medicare and Social Security, as well as other government
services that are now expected. The growing trade deficit reflects a deeper breakdown in
the larger political economy of the entire nation, manifesting itself most directly in the
ongoing shift from an economy that produces real goods to some sort of finance-based
(flim-flam Ponzi?) economy that figures out how to import more manufactured goods (and
maybe eventually services) than it exports on a permanent basis. No one knows where this
ongoing transformation will take the United States, or what it means for the private as well
as governmental social contracts binding this nation together.
In the attached article, my friend Chris Sanders, an international banker based in London,
posits one theory about a possible evolutionary pathway of this transformation. He argues
the United States, in effect, is choosing to take the easy way out of its problems by going to
war (and by implication using the tragedy of 9-11 as a political pretext for this policy). The
Sanders hypothesis boiled down its essentials: the United States does not produce enough
of what the world wants (goods and services), so it going to war to monopolize control of
what the world needs (i.e., the supply of oil). If true, this is a formula for perpetual war.
I hope that the Sanders Hypothesis will be disproved by events, but the attached report on
the US trade deficit explains the reasons why he posits this view. Agree or not, it merits
careful consideration.
@Pat - thatÂ´s the plan they are following
Internally: Break the social contracts - Starve the Beast
Externally: Rob the world
Sorry about the length of the exerpt. From "Force Size and Strategy," by AEI's Thomas
Donnelly (aei.org/publications):
...China regards the "global war on terrorism as creating a 'strategic window of opportunity'
for China." The new American "focus on counterterrorism has reduced perceived U.S.
'pressure' on and 'containment' of China, opening opportunities to strengthen internal
security and create a more favorable situation along the periphery."[10] At the same time,
American actions, particularly those resulting from the invasion of Afghanistan, have
created new problems:
China's leaders appear to have concluded that the net effect of the U.S.-led campaign has
been further encirclement of China, specifically by placing U.S. military forces in Central
Asia, strengthening U.S. defense relations with Pakistan, India, and Japan, and returning
the U.S. military to Southeast Asia. . . . Because of these perceptions of Washington's
strategy and presence Beijing believes U.S. intervention in conflict scenarios involving
China . . . is increasingly likely.[11]
Thus China's strategic horizons have been expanded by the events of the last several years.
Beijing now thinks in terms of its "greater periphery," encompassing Central Asia and the
Middle East. Its goals include "maintaining access to natural resources and markets, and
pursuing a 'counter-containment' strategy by establishing a regional presence and influence
to balance and compete with the United States."[12]
The most notable feature of this new turn in Chinese strategy is Beijing's increasing interest
and presence in the greater Middle East. Energy security is becoming a central concern as
China's economy continues to grow and industrialize. China is now the world's second
largest energy consumer and third largest net oil importer, more and more dependent on
outside sources of supply. As the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission
reported to Congress in June, "this dependency influences China's energy and national
security policies. China has a growing sense of insecurity because of increased dependence
on tanker-delivered Middle East oil via sea lanes, including the Straits of Malacca and
Hormuz, controlled by the U.S. Navy."[13]
Energy shortages are a paramount concern for Beijing, which is already having to ration its
electric power supply, slowing the manufacturing economy and threatening overall
economic growth, which the ruling Chinese Communist Party regards as key to retaining
power and ensuring domestic peace. Thus Beijing takes a strategic view to securing its
energy supplies, the exact inverse of U.S. energy policy. Moreover, the problem will be
exacerbated with time; China's share of world oil consumption is projected to grow
significantly, with consumption doubling and perhaps tripling by 2010.[14] Thus, China is
planning to create a strategic petroleum reserve, is pursuing a variety of pipeline deals with
Central Asian states-investments that are difficult to justify economically absent very high
per-barrel oil prices-and, most ominously, pursue "non-market reciprocity deals with Iran,
Sudan, and other states of concern, including arms sales and WMD-related technology
transfers that pose security challenges to the United States."[15]
In keeping with its political and strategic view, Beijing has an autarkic energy policy,
"focused on owning the import oil at the production source." This has the effect of creating
strategic partnerships between China and those states that supply it with oil. The United
States, by contrast, takes a market-driven approach to energy, and its security policies,
particularly toward the oil states of the Persian Gulf and the greater Middle East, have
sought to maintain influence from a distance. Thus, as Energy Department official James
Caverly bluntly puts it: "geopolitically, this could soon bring the United States and Chinese
energy interests into conflict. Both countries will be in the Persian Gulf for oil."[16]
It's Called the New Great Game
It was discussed a little on the oil threads here.
Did that guy ever look into a mirror?
The US does not take a strategic view to securing its energy supplies?
The US in ME sought to maintain influence from a distance?
China will need the access to energy to be able to feed itÂ´s people and to prevent internal
wars -or worse- a breakup. The will risk a lot to succed with this.
"In keeping with its political and strategic view, Beijing has an autarkic energy policy,
"focused on owning the import oil at the production source." This has the effect of creating
strategic partnerships between China and those states that supply it with oil. The United
States, by contrast, takes a market-driven approach to energy, and its security policies,
particularly toward the oil states of the Persian Gulf and the greater Middle East, have
sought to maintain influence from a distance."
So Mr. Donnelly is saying that we don't create strategic partnerships with oil-producing
states - presumably because all the oil we buy comes off an open or common market.
China, by contrast, seeks to secure its oil at the production source, before it enters that
market. Is this correct?
Perhaps someone can tell me: Is it necessary for the US government to be involved, at any
step of the way, in the resource exploitation undertaken by US corporations in foreign
countries?
Pat
Is yours a trick question?
Let me venture this, with the increased use of mercenaries we are seeing in Iraq, the need
for the government to use troops to support big business in oversea's adventures may soon
be a thing of the past.
Pat, is it necessary for US corporations to be involved, at any step of the way, in resource
exploitation in foreign countries?
Zero fed protection for any US corp against foreign lawsuits would most likely lead to the
end of foreigners.
@Pat corporations -> polticians: money
politicians -> electorate: promises
electorate -> politicians: government
government -> corporations: support
corporations -> polticians: money
not necessity, but unforunatly reality
at least this should be corrected:
NYT OpEd Abolish the Electoral College
George Bush became president even though he lost the popular vote to Al
Gore by more than 500,000 votes. Many people realized then for the first time
that we have a system in which the president is chosen not by the voters
themselves, but by 538 electors. It's a ridiculous setup, which thwarts the will
of the majority,...
b,
oui, ja, das goot.
I can't remember if I posted this thought...so much of what I write I kill outright as
vociferously hostile and liable to get me strung up by my balls...but here it is if I didn't:
A recurring nightmare: bush is gonna win again but lose the popular vote.
Think about what that fucking means.
I remember some MoA or Whiskey bar drunk posted the thought that the whole world
should vote in the US presidential election because the whole world is materially effected
by the ass that occupies the presidency.
So what we have here is a failure of democracy to communicate.
Rural americans are disproportionately powerful.
Fuck them.
That some beer-belly slime ball in Wyoming has that much power is enough to make me
cough up some bile right in his fat face.
Democracy now!
[Aside: by the way...I can't wait to visit my local repugs next town hall meeting and ask the
clown fish: I am glad you support democracy in Iraq, when are you going to support it for
the good folks in our nation's capitol? ]
[Double aside: I am thinking about changing my nick to "thread-buster." As it seems
everytime I post something the thread dies immediately thereafter...]
@Dan of Steele
No, it's not a trick question.
@koreyel
I thought the nightmare scenario for most Democrats is Bush winning both the electoral
college and the popular vote, by too significant a margin to allege conspiracy.
(Begs the question: Which hurts more - losing by a hair's breadth or losing by a lot?)
What would be really interesting: Bush wins the popular vote and Kerry wins the electoral
college. I'm not an opponent of the EC so it wouldn't bother me, but I'd be interested in the
broad reaction.
If Hoffmania is right, seems as if the goalpost still is to high. His take of the first day at the
RNC, nobody seems to be eager to jump.
The Elephant and Pony Show
Another interessting reading.
I'VE HAD ENOUGH!
@Fran:
Enjoyed both posts, esp. the last:
Hesiod's a powerful writer.
Thanks
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« Your Weekly Terror Threat | Main | Framing the Death of the Beast »
Moon of Alabama: Your Weekly Terror Threat
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« The Mailman | Main | Off Topics - Open Thread »
August 27, 2004
Your Weekly Terror Threat
Some read:
persistent reports of "suspicious activity" at medical facilities throughout
the United States.
links to terrorism, the bulletin urges vigilance at VA hospitals on the part of
police and security personnel.
others read:
hospitals as an alternative to more heavily guarded U.S. military installations,
the FBI and Homeland Security Department warn in a new nationwide
terrorism bulletin.
persistent reports of "suspicious activity" at medical facilities throughout the
United States.
said. Even though later investigation of these two incidents uncovered no links
to terrorism, the bulletin urges vigilance at VA hospitals on the part of police
and security personnel.
Of course the author did intend the first read and I am betting all of my 95.1 Zambian
Kwacha that the Veteran theme is intentional too.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/your_weekly_ter.html (1 von 3) [16.11.2004 18:44:55]
Report: al-Qaida May Target VA Hospitals
Comments
Hospitals?
I suppose if I was a paraplegic in a wheelchair with no quality life in sight, I'd say bring 'em
on.
If I were you Bernhard, I'd exchange those Kwachas for Vanuata Vatus right away.
Enisha, kihakula! Since too many troops are dying now, the meme has shifted to "support
the vets" (unless they're in politics now)...
Veterans have not been paying attention. There are real threats out there: Veterans
themselves, specially weak and sick ones may be attacked. They should shape up and
realise the danger and STOP ::
- agitating for fair treatment of present or ex-soldiers - pushing objections to or
investigation of vaccines - writing about the dangers of DU - getting their handicapped
children featured in Life - supporting anti-war groups - joining various â€˜truthâ€™
movements - making speeches that get people riled up - pointing out the ineptness of the
Iraq invasion - going all over the internet with their own opinions - and much more.
The "fear and loathing" blog from Iraq seems to be as he says "over and out" ?
@beq
but I could get 30,650 Turkish Lira in exchange
fear and loathing in Iraq;
//cbftw.blogspot.com
@ bernhard:
Oy. Do it!!!
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« The Mailman | Main | Off Topics - Open Thread »
Moon of Alabama: The Mailman
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« NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004 | Main | Your Weekly Terror Threat »
August 26, 2004
The Mailman
What better way to avoid talking about the nations dead of a war that started 17 month ago,
than to talk about the survivors of a war that ended 375 month ago. The mailman may help
Kerry for now, but the next round of ads will work on KerryÂ´s anti-Vietnam actions and
will continue to lower his ratings.
Associated Press reports:
Former Georgia Senator Max Cleland, left, and former Green Beret Lt. Jim
Rassmann, center, approach a Secret Service Agent, right, on station at the
check point to the entrance of President Bush 's ranch Wednesday Aug. 25,
2004 in Crawford, Texas. Cleland tried to deliver a letter protesting ads
challenging John Kerry's Vietnam service to President Bush at his Texas ranch
Wednesday, but the Secret Service stopped Cleland short of his goal.
The Cleland letter (PDF)
Bush Edges Ahead of Kerry for the 1st Time
For the first time this year in a Times survey, Bush led Kerry in the
presidential race, drawing 49% among registered voters, compared with 46%
for the Democrat. In a Times poll just before the Democratic convention last
month, Kerry held a 2-percentage-point advantage over Bush.
That small shift from July was within the poll's margin of error. But it fit with
other findings in the Times poll showing the electorate edging toward Bush
over the past month on a broad range of measures, from support for his
handling of Iraq to confidence in his leadership and honesty.
Comments
Bernhard
You have this The Economist / YouGov poll which is much more favorable to Kerry
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/mailman.html (1 von 21) [16.11.2004 18:45:02]
Ouch!
When Bob Dole Said No
Time in-country, how often a man was wounded, how much blood he shed
when he was wounded -- it is hurtful that those who served in Vietnam are
being split in so vile a fashion, and that the wounds of that war are reopened at
the instigation of people who avoided serving at all. It is hurtful that a man of
Bob Dole's stature should lend himself to the effort to dishonor a fellow
American veteran in the service of politics at its cheapest.
There was a time when he would have refused. I know. I was there.
The writer was special assistant to President Richard Nixon from 1971 to
1974. He was assistant secretary of defense and director for special
planning at the Defense Department from 1981 to 1986.
Thank you, Jerome, for that snippet from the Post (which I rarely read). There was a time
when there was a sense of honor that would not have allowed one veteran to impugn the
service of another, regardless of political differences, and Mr. Koch remembers it - as do I,
having known men of the WW II generation and Korean War veterans.
But this Bush crowd seems to be a group of opportunities who will twist anything to stay in
power. That Times poll is discouraging, even if another poll contradicts it. It means we are
giving up and giving in in this country. People are not yet hurting enough personally to see
the connection to Bush.
Posted by: francoise | August 26, 2004 12:05 PM
Thank you, Jerome, for that snippet from the Post (which I rarely read). There was a time
when there was a sense of honor that would not have allowed one veteran to impugn the
service of another, regardless of political differences, and Mr. Koch remembers it - as do I,
having known men of the WW II generation and Korean War veterans.
But this Bush crowd seems to be a group of opportunists who will twist anything to stay in
power. That Times poll is discouraging, even if another poll contradicts it. It means we are
giving up and giving in in this country. People are not yet hurting enough personally to see
the connection to Bush.
Posted by: francoise | August 26, 2004 12:05 PM
It's been my belief for some time now that the Bushies' Master Plan is to keep the
candidates' poll numbers neck-and-neck by the lavish application of slime, and then
"fixing" the voting results in a few key districts in selected swing states.
This would serve the dual purpose of minimizing the number of people who needed to be in
on the plan (always the Achilles' Heel of conspiracies) and making it virtually impossible to
prove fraud occurred.
Even if we didn't have a primping gaggle of Media Whores ready to take up the chant of
"Sore Losers" and "Get Over It", I think they'd stand a good chance of getting away with
stealing the election.
Posted by: prof fate | August 26, 2004 03:13 PM
Does anyone else here expect GWB to get the kind of statistical bounce out of his
convention that Kerry didn't seem to get out of his?
I'm guessing that the results for Bush out of NY will be very favorable - a significant jump,
however short-lived.
I can't say why, exactly, I have that feeling - only that I've had it ever since the Democratic
National Convention in Boston.
The fact is Bob Dole is now s senile old man who likely had the words on CNN whispered
in his ear by his wife through a microphone from back stage.
I am still not worried about the polls. Bushie will get a bump from the convention, but
barely. But the real action will be when Busjie and Kerry debate. Kerry will rip him a new
asshole. Unlike Bushie, Kerry has been debating on the senate floor for 15 years. I do
believe he's well versed in the tactics of debate.
Bushie is going to look like a fool. Remember in 2000, the media gave Bushie a free ride.
All he had to do was hold his own and not make mistakes. Actually Gore kicked his
simpleton ass.
I also, believe the Dems have their own October supprise to spring. Remember, Kerry was
going to use Haliburton to roast Cheney and the admin. I believe there is some real dirt
gonna come out.
Also, Edwards is a trial lawyer. He's been keeping a fairly low profile. He's planning for
Cheney and they better have the paddles ready. Cheneys heart may need a jump when
Edwards tears him a new one.
Pat I'm guessing that the results for Bush out of NY will be very favorable - a significant
jump, however short-lived.
I can't say why, exactly,
The media will take care that Bush makes a significant jump. To make it shortlived
something has to go wrong for Bush after the convenetion, but there is enough waiting,
Plame, more Abu Ghraib, more AlSadr, the stock market ...
Prof Fate - the theory makes sense, but if they had control over the thing going
neck-to-neck, why not putting Bush in lead? I donÂ´t believe they bought ALL pollsters.
jdp - Gore kicked his simpleton ass and Bush is president.
A very interesting post (scroll down a few) on past elections and realignments at
redstate.org. Definitely worth a read:
1936 All Over Again By: Thomas Â· Section: Election 2004
Let us not mince words: The Democrats have gone mildly mad.
By this, I do not mean that every Democrat the nation over has wandered into Michael
Moore Land. Nor do I mean that (most) are currently foaming at the mouth in a paroxysm
of Bushitler!! rage.
Rather, I mean to say that we are watching the Democrat Party begin the slow slide into
semi-permanent minority status that characterized the Republican Party for the better part
of five decades, and the reflexive, unsubstantiated loathing of the opposition's party leaders
that entails. The Democrats are, essentially, reliving the fall of 1936 all over again.
The parallels are obvious. From 1864 to 1932, the Republican Party was the dominant party
in this country. The GOP captured all but four of the Presidential elections in that time
span. Supreme Court jurisprudence trended (very vaguely) right (or at least, especially in
the freedom of contract cases, sided with the Republican view). Congress was a generally
Republican (or at least, usually not Democrat) club.
1936 was the turning point...
@Jdp:
You mean like when Edwards sums it up for the jury in a big civil suit.
Cheney debating Edwards would be almost as bad as him debating Gerry Spence.
It ought to be amusing. Wish they had 3 of those too.
Posted by: JR | August 26, 2004 04:12 PM
CBSnews Dirty Tricks, Patrician Style
This old [Bush]family has traditions â€“ horseshoes, fishing, bad syntax and
having the help do the dirty work in campaigns as well as the kitchen. And
they are very good at getting jobs done without leaving fingerprints, without
compromising their patrician image and their alleged character.
..
What Kerry and the Democrats do not have is an explicitly ideological cable
network, a dedicated publishing house and a pantheon of sympathetic, wildly
popular talk radio shows that essentially function as 527 groups.
..
But despite Kerryâ€™s own Brahmin lineage, patrician bearing and vast
wealth, he's a poor relation when it comes to hiring help to do the dirty work.
A good read.
@Bernhard
"The media will take care that Bush makes a significant jump. To make it shortlived
something has to go wrong for Bush after the convenetion, but there is enough waiting,
Plame, more Abu Ghraib, more AlSadr, the stock market ..."
You're right, b, that two months is a long time campaign-wise and that much can, and will,
happen.
But once a major scandal breaks and makes its initial run through the media and the
collective consciousness, it becomes, without further shocking revelation, yesterday's story.
Abu Ghraib and Plame are in this category. Sistani has certainly done his part to give Bush
a better news entry into the convention, thus minimizing the al Sadr effect.
That leaves the stock market and, well, whatever other nastiness the real world can dish out
to the incumbent.
I almost feel I ought to apologize here for my stubborn pessimism on the Kerry campaign,
which doesn't possess the consolation of being conspiracy-driven. Most of this pessimism
goes back to the party leadership's decision not to oppose the Republicans on Iraq. I think
they made a grave error - a failure to capitalize - and I've been gloomy about this election
ever since.
Pat - I donÂ´t know when the Dems decided not to go against the Iraq war or at least
against the bad execution, but the conservation may have been this:
A: We should hurt them on Iraq
B: We canÂ´t, they are building schools there
A: But they did mess up in AbuGhraib
B: The electorate doesnÂ´t care about it
A: But it will get even worse there
B: It will not, those are American troops there. Our troops never fail. It will get better over
time and we would loose if we punch them on this.
US hybris isnÂ´t a republican illness. "We are better" is implanted in school into everyone.
@b
You should apologise to Nemo for your post on the last OT thread.
This is a free forum and to critise other posters for posting for what is, in effect, good
truthful material that the mainstream media whores don't do, is disengenious.
@CP
Sorry if this was misunderstood. I asked to cut it back just a little bit in the number of
comments - not in content. Maybe that was wrong - sorry.
It's a horse-race, no? The winner gets to fly around in Air Force One--a fact I frequently
overlook. Yes, the President gets to fly around in a great big Air Force jet for four years. A
cool trip! It's really something to run for, and run really hard, wouldn't you say? (This isn't
exactly OT: I'm trying to size up Kerry and Bush as highly motivated racehorses. Which of
the two wants to fly around on Air Force One more than the other?)
Can anyone tell me who owns Air Force One? Is it the Air Force? And who provides its
fuel and maintenance? I'm not so interested in our end of the food-chain as in the vendors
putting stuff straight on the plane. Of one thing I'm absolutely sure: they make more money
than the President.
Here's a great couplet by Alexander Pope, written to be engraved on the collar of a royal
dog:
I am His Majesty's dog at Kew:
Pray tell me, Sir, whose dog are you?
I also offer a not very original point about the Swift-boat frenzy. The frenzy is certainly not
about the swift-boats: if it were, the violent lies it engenders would be dealt with severely-not given license to wander all over the place. Why? What positive function, then, do the
lies serve? Answer: they represent, somewhat in the manner of Aesopian fables, an answer
to the question of whether our actions in Iraq are of a piece with our action in Viet Nam. If
Kerry was right about Viet Nam, then our equivalent activities in Iraq are every bit as bad
(the point, of course, belongs to Sy Hersh). McNeill, then, is arguing (by way of rhetorical
displacement) on behalf of the neo-cons and their friends on the Christian right who can't
deal with Abu Ghraib. And this is strange, because Abu Ghraib happened, and these guys
are too weak to accept it. I regard them with the same cold fury I feel for playground
supervisors who are so cowardly that they have to look the other way while a schoolyard
bully is beating up on his victim.
Call me naive, but is'nt dear leaders cornerstone claim to fame, the war on terrorism,
spearheaded by the war in Iraq pretty much an unmitigated disaster? Could'nt Kerry, in the
debate where the squirm-factor would really show, simply say point blank "Mr Bush, under
your leadership, and with the complicity of legislative body that includes myself, taken that
power and the good will of Americans people, in the rightful war against terrorism....And
haven't you Mr Bush taken that power and terribly abused it the occupation of Iraq? Has'nt
your administration, with asperations that you, yourself have declared, failed on every
count? After 16 months of American occupation in Iraq, can you, sir, show the American
people and myself the success of your vision and your managment. Are not the American
forces in Iraq in greater danger now than 16 months ago?Are not the Iraqi people in greater
peril? And have'nt all peoples of the middle east, in fact, been drivin farther
from democracys embrace?
yadayadayada,,,,,,,,, im no speach writer but can this be so hard to do?
@b
You should apologise to Nemo for your post on the last OT thread.
This is a free forum and to critise other posters for posting for what is, in effect, good
truthful material that the mainstream media whores don't do, is disengenious.
Most cloying words CP. Much like those the serpent spoke to Eve. Clones as I understand
them genetically are genetically identical to the parent. What of your ancestry CP? Does it
and you have a reflection in the mirror. I got a 10 pound note that says both don't.
Go back to your crypt now please.
Wouldn't want to have to waste a good cured oak stake on the likes of you.
Posted by: Dr. Van Helsing | August 26, 2004 09:29 PM
Alabama: Answer: they represent, somewhat in the manner of Aesopian fables, an answer
to the question of whether our actions in Iraq are of a piece with our action in Viet Nam. If
Kerry was right about Viet Nam, then our equivalent activities in Iraq are every bit as bad
And this is what continues to bother me about what is missing from the Kerry message.
Ain't nobody going to convince me to ignore it. Of course the case can be made, and has
been made that a lot of political water has gone under Kerry's bridge since 1971. He's no
longer an activist former Navy JG. He's a seasoned professional politician, along with still
being an entrenched scion of the Eastern Elite. Those are reasons One and Two for my less
than happy thoughts about John Kerry. I also think he could be making lots of hay by using
the parallels to Vietnam, but he's only saluting his own "service" and defending his 1971
conscientious objection after the fact. I can't reconcile the dichotomies... Sounds like meet
the new boss, who like the older bosses appears to have a convenient amnesia.
nemo,keep posting i appreciate not
having to do all the searching work
on my own.thanks for the info you
provide.
Posted by: onzaga | August 26, 2004 09:44 PM
@Onzaga:
NEMOS one fine whirling dervish of news. We couldn't find the stuff he finds, in a million
years.
And Bernhard's done one hell of a job creating a beautiful site.I, personally, love the rabbit
stew and football scores.
Posted by: Harold Lloyd | August 26, 2004 10:04 PM
If you ever questioned how come that Germans blindly followed Hitler and his criminal
politic now you have a chance to look around and youâ€™ll be served with the answer. For
example here in Australia there were some polls and the question was something to this
line: â€œDo you believe that John Howard deliberately â€œmisleadâ€• (LIED) this nation
about intelligence that leaded us in to the war in Iraqâ€•. Now great amount of people said
YES. Some commentators and annalists mentioned 2/3 said â€œyesâ€• the others are
talking about around 50%...Never mind. This is not my point. The point is that this is very
serious matter THE WAR, people die and the cost goes much further in material and even
immaterial sense (but this Americans are yet to acknowledge). And here is the point: of
those who answered â€œyes, Howard deliberately lied to Australian nation to fling them in
to the warâ€• 60% SAID ITâ€™S NOT GOING TO AFECT THEIR VOTING FOR HIM.
Now tell me where moral has gone? And the most sickening thing is that those 60% are
claiming they are conservative, religious, family, patriotic bla, bla, blaâ€¦yak, yak,yak
oriented persons that want us to go back in time for the sake of moral that â€œweâ€• not
that conservative, patriotic etc. ruined as they declare.
Polls in USA would show even more ominous picture I am sure.
Yapâ€¦And I donâ€™t think you should find any comfort in a fact that most of those people
thinking this way are Republicans. Debs is right here :â€• US citizens who are currently
appalled by their country's occupation of Iraq may find it easier to wear a economically and
morally 'justified' war, especially if the president was a democrat.
Generally itâ€™s about moral that has been ruined as suchâ€¦Interestingly itâ€™s always
the case before some huge World Warâ€¦Social â€œlawsâ€• are as merciless and relentless
as Nature â€œlowsâ€•â€¦We human animals are so stupid to believe that we can change
itâ€¦
Posted by: vbo | August 26, 2004 10:26 PM
Someone please tell me: Did Kerry, upon his return from southeast Asia, publically oppose
the war in Vietnam, or rather the atrocities carried out there?
If he explicity opposed the war, upon what grounds did he do so?
I have read that Kerry opposed the war before going to Vietnam, but have no quotes of his
to this effect. If this is so, however, why on earth would someone purposely, voluntarily
take part in a war with which they were at odds?
Excellent question, Pat--and you've reminded me of some homework I haven't done, i.e.
reading a biography of the man that's unofficial, and that contains exact and reliable
information about those years....
NEMOS one fine whirling dervish of news. We couldn't find the stuff he finds, in a million
years.
And Bernhard's done one hell of a job creating a beautiful site.I, personally, love the rabbit
stew ...
Yeah exactly.
What's going on here?
Do we have our own simulacrum of swift boat jerks trying to torpedo what is otherwise an
excellent web site?
Bernhard...please run a trap on that Van Helsing creature. Kill that address from ever
posting here again ( a damn shame...as the guys got some word talent).
CP and Nemo are absolutely priceless.
I can't ever keep up with their wonderful links. And that's a damn sweet thing.
Could'nt Kerry, in the debate where the squirm-factor would really show, simply say point
blank "Mr Bush, under your leadership, and with the complicity of legislative body that
includes myself, taken that power and the good will of Americans people, in the rightful
war against terrorism....And haven't you Mr Bush taken that power and terribly abused it
the occupation of Iraq?
Anna....
NO.
Kerry can't say this.
To do so would be to implicitly acknowledge that the deaths of 1000 americans and the
spending of 200 billion was all in vain.
Seriously.
The greatest similarity between Iraq and Vietnam is just this:
Just as many people still refuse to acknowledge that the Vietnam war was a horrible waste
of American and Vietnamese lives...even so are many Americans now in everlasting denial
about Iraq's futility.
One of the reasons we will continue to throw good money after bad, and young lives after
dead lives is so that no grieving parent may say: "You mean my boy died for nothing?"
It's a hard hard truth for this culture to face.
Neither Kerry or Bush will ever speak an idea that approaches the true and deadly historical
reality of Iraq.
@ Koreyel
Know what you're saying, but, it's been his policy(GWB), of his design and execution, and
it has utterly failed on every level of of his agenda. I think he(JK) must find a way. At this
point,even the right, is fessing up to the failure.This is the bullet for that long awaited
"strong closing".
A comprehensive accounting of the magnitude of the above mentioned "utterly failed
policy":
current Juan Cole post down to TonyKaron link,
then to CSIC pdf download of Tony Cordesman
article . 20 some pages of pathetic truth
anna missed: what is crystal clear when the moon of Alabama sheds its light on thee, will
feel like a slap in the face to anyone who hasn't followed the story as closely.
I think vbo pointed out the how and why.
Cognitive dissonance anyone?
Reframing the discourse is where it starts, I believe we were in this part of the maze before.
Posted by: fiumana bella | August 27, 2004 01:24 AM
@Koreyel:
Some things are more priceless than others.
You got to be discerning.
Imagine push came to shove, Nemo would be with me.
He's just resting now, after a hard day of reporting. He'll be back soon.
You take care. I love your fire.
Posted by: Dr. V. | August 27, 2004 01:39 AM
Anna...
There is a line I remember from a Howard Fast novel about Washinton DC.
One of the Senators says about another Senator:
"I know he is an asshole, but he is OUR asshole."
Which is say:
The republicans know Bush is a failure but he is THEIR failure.
Mark Kleiman has a wonderful little post on this very idea.
I've just had a sadistic thought of the kind that we tend to suppress because, well, it's
perverse....And it's this: to the world at large the name "Bush" is rapidly becoming
equivalent to the name "Hitler". Forever defamed are those who carry this name, most
especially the Murderer-in-Chief's father, his mother, and their various name-bearing
offspring. Lucky the Bush women, who can marry out of this mess; not so lucky the Bush
men, who must carry this mark of Cain right down to their last male offspring (smf as for
me, I'm just very happy to know that my last name isn't "Bush").
@b
I think you misunderstood me: I'm not saying BushCo controls the pollsters (or at least, not
all of them), just that while "T.B." Rove's preferred course of events would have Kerry ten
points down in the polls right now, it ain't gonna happen, because
- The last one was a squeaker, which they would have lost but for the Supremes' timely
intervention.
- They've pissed off a bunch of people in the interim.
Since Plan A looks less and less achievable, Plan B would be as I described it in my
previous post:
With the regime's appalling record, the best the Repubs can hope for is to retain that solid
minority of marching morons, which with the Nader voters out of the game puts them
within the MOE of running even with Kerry.
So it's all slime all the time, to keep the flying monkey media occupied and drive up Kerry's
negatives. The media cooperate for all the usual reasons, plus the fun of a close race
(which, not coincidentally, ups the ratings for their campaign coverage and increases the ad
time bought by both parties).
Keep the uncertainty high, and it's easier both to finagle and pass off an "upset" victory
(after which our giggling pundits will sagely nod their heads and invoke that famous
picture of Harry Truman).
The scary thing is that if the Cloistered Emperor really starts to slide in the polls, they
might decide to give up trying for a semblance of legitimacy and go for Plan C.
@koreyel
What you said.
Posted by: prof fate | August 27, 2004 02:03 AM
@Anna Mist:
Tony Cordesman has been hot about it since July 2003. I'll check it out tomorrow.
It'll be sad reading.I can't believe the incompetence of these fuck-ups.
Thanks for the cite.
Posted by: Harold Lloyd | August 27, 2004 02:06 AM
prof fate: Plan C? To contest the results, before an ever-friendly court, on the grounds that
they were tainted by climate of the 527s?
Only slightly OT and worth reading.
It's time to bring Najaf back home - Americans have one last chance to show their
opposition to this war by Naomi Klein
"One of the reasons we will continue to throw good money after bad, and young lives after
dead lives is so that no grieving parent may say: 'You mean my boy died for nothing?'"
Soldiers enlist, and obtain commissions, for many, many reasons. Whatever benefits for
themselves they seek from military service - whatever they hope to do and accomplish they agree to fight our wars in return. (For some, this is itself the primary or sole
motivation.) Who's to say they do it - or did it - for nothing? They themselves must speak.
argument reduced 1 more time: John Kerry pick up that steaming, sordid, suitcase full of
Vietnam shit, walk over and whop George Bush upside the head with it.
@fiumana bella
I dont think George Bush holds a candle to Hitler, he could actually win a war (and I think
this might be what Pat has been saying) Bentio Mussolini would probably compare more
favorably, although Bush would still be the wanna-be.
Kerry, obviously would not stop the slide, but, with extensive investigations into the whole
Bush disaster, and I mean an extensive probe into every freaking piece of paper generated
by these morons, could, maybe, put the skids on for awhile. And that is worth something.
"You should apologise to Nemo for your post on the last OT thread. This is a free forum"
Someone doesn't seem to know much about the net. There's nothing like a free forum
online, unless you are the owner and admin. In this case, Bernhard runs the house, so
ultimately he's the Boss here around.
vbo: well, 2 centuries of applied democracy tends to show that most people are too stupid
to be allowed to vote or even have genuine individual rights, so it doesn't surprise me that
the current democratic systems tend to produce crap in the long run. The only advantage is
that, compared to other political systems, it usually takes longer to produce really big crap.
Plan C: well, that's BushCo staging another coup. Think major attack in Nov or Dec,
followed by martial law, elections results cancelled, and the ensuing fun.
From Daily Kos:
2004 Iraq deaths now exceed 2003 deaths
by Tom Schaller
Thu Aug 26th, 2004 at 20:36:29 GMT
It happened this week almost without notice: The number of Americans killed in Iraq
during 2004 now exceeds the number killed in 2003.
More remarkably, the 488 killed thus far this year died in just 239 days (2.04 daily
average), while the 482 killed last year died during fully 287 days (1.68 daily average),
which means that not only has 2004 been bloodier than 2003 in absolute terms, but in
relative terms as well.
@Pat
Do you think the old Nixonian bereavement rubric "peace with honor" will will suffice this
time around?
nite moon
All quotes:
Back in October 2002, when Senator Kerry voted to grant President Bush a blank check to
make war, he tried to scare the American public into thinking that such an invasion was
essential to the defense of the United States. Despite a lack of credible evidence, Kerry
categorically declared that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons and even claimed that
most elements of Iraqs chemical and biological weapons programs were larger and more
advanced than they were before the Gulf War. Furthermore, Kerry asserted that Iraq was
attempting to develop nuclear weapons, backing up this accusation by claiming that all U.S.
intelligence experts agree with such an assessment. He also alleged that Iraq is developing
unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) capable of delivering chemical and biological warfare
agents, which could threaten Iraqs neighbors as well as American forces in the Persian
Gulf. (...) When President Bush actually launched the invasion soon afterwards, Senator
Kerry praised him, co-sponsoring a Senate resolution in which he declared that the invasion
was lawful and fully authorized by the Congress and that he commends and supports the
efforts and leadership of the President . . . in the conflict with Iraq. (...) Kerry claimed that
such multilateralism advocated by Dean cedes our security and presidential responsibility
to defend America to someone else since it would permit a veto over when American can
or cannot act. Dean's call for the United States to work in broad coalitions, insisted Kerry,
is little more that a pretext for doing nothing.
CommonDreams
KERRY: Mr. President, when I vote to give the president of the United States the authority
to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein; because I believe that a deadly
arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat and a grave threat to our
security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region, I will vote, because I believe it is
the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable. (Oct. 9, 2002 speech.)
DemocracyNow
Q: Under what future conditions would you support a pre-emptive military strike against
another nation without wide international approval?
KERRY: Only when the US is so threatened that it is required for the survival of our
country or for the accomplishment of some extraordinary humanitarian goal. (Jan 2004.)
OnTheIssues
Posted by: Blackie | August 27, 2004 08:01 AM
Pat @ 10:27 p.m.
"Someone please tell me: Did Kerry, upon his return from southeast Asia, publically
oppose the war in Vietnam, or rather the atrocities carried out there?"
I just found the following:
What Kerry Did - and Didn't - Say in 1971
John Kerry Testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971.
The great cite BEQ presented indicates to me that Kerry opposed both the war and the
atrocites. It is no great contradiction in my mind for an individual to support something, get
there, see whats really going on, and denounce it when you're "retired". Happens all the
time in civilian occupations and government.It's similar to whistle blowing.
Finally, I think it took real guts for Kerry to take that stand, with the likes of Nixon and
Agnew running the show.
Quote (J.Kerry):
â€œsomeone has to give up his life so that the United Status doesn't have to admit
something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say that we have made a
mistake.â€•
***
Oh my Godâ€¦history is useless and cynicism and irony is just painfulâ€¦this man even
today being a candidate for presidency do put him self cowardly in a same situation he was
disgusted with 33 years agoâ€¦
Posted by: vbo | August 27, 2004 10:23 AM
Regarding Beq's Kerry links...
That's explosive stuff.
One can only imagine how Kerry's testimony must have blown right-wing heads right off
their reptillian brain stems.
I'd love to see the editorials and op-ed letters that responded to that testimony.
The hate for Kerry must have been incandescent.
Eerily, Kerry's thougths on Vietnam have been replicated by posters here and at the
Whiskeybar in regards to Iraq.
Every sentiment I have ever expressed on Iraq, Kerry expressed before me on Vietnam.
That's stunning.
For example, once I posted a thought experiment on Iraq in an attempt to demonstrate the
war's racist nature.
Here is Kerry implying the very same thing:
We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings," with quotation marks around
that. We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country
would dream of using were we fighting in the European theater or let us say a
non-third-world people theater
Or check this out-What Kerry said then:
"...because we are probably angriest about all that we were told about Vietnam and about
the mystical war against communism."
Revised:
"...because we are probably angriest about all that we were told about Iraq and about the
mystical war against terrorism."
Ah...
The mystical war against __________.
That was brilliantly correct then, it is brilliantly correct today.
Why, oh why, can't this Kerry re-emerge? So sad.
@VBO:
The way I read that quote you quote, Kerry was refering to the Nixon administration's
attitude.
Kerry's attitude was the exact opposite, I think, and was very well expressed by him all the
way through the testimony..
Quote:
"Why, oh why, can't this Kerry re-emerge? So sad."
***
I was so hopeful at the beginning hearing about this testimony and not knowing what Kerry
stands for today and who he is actually...
And am so depressed since I found out...
It shouldâ€™ve been obvious there is no place for great hope when Kerry was officially
backed by corrupted "corporate" top of Democrats while they pushed Dean a side...
As Koreyel suggests, just replace the word "communism" with the word "terrorism":
"We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man
to be the last man to dies in Vietnam? How do ask a man to be the last man to
die for a mistake? But we are trying to do that, and we are doing it with
thousands of rationalizations, and if you read carefully the President's last
speech to the people of this country, you can see that he says, and says clearly:
But the issue, gentlemen, the issue is communism, and the question is whether
or not we will leave that country to the communists or whether or not we will
try to give it hope to be a free people. But the point is they are not a free
people now under us. They are not a free people, and we cannot fight
communism all over the world, and I think we should have learned that
lesson by now."
My guess is -- or rather my hope is -- that Kerry is saving his anti-war past as a card to use
in October when the electorate is paying attention.
One small sign of this was embedded in his speech in Philadelphia a couple of days ago, in
which he said he was proud of his anti-war stance in 1971, was proud of the fact that he
took an unpopular stand when it counted.
I think we're going to be hearing more about Kerry as the man who stood up to power (and
Nixon) in the month before the election. My guess is the campaign wanted to emphasize
FIRST his service to the country (medals, hero, etc.) as the foundation of his personal story
so that his anti-war activities could be framed as a hero coming home to tell the truth.
At least that's the way I would run the campaign, but only time will tell if I'm right.
Makes good sense to me; I hope you're right, SusanG. Think we can get him on the phone?
Here is a entire quote :
â€œEach day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of
Vietnam someone has to give up his life so that the United Status doesn't have to admit
something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say that we have made a
mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the
first president to lose a war."
***
Of course â€œKerry was refering to the Nixon administration's attitude.â€• And of course
â€œKerry's attitude was the exact opposite, I think, and was very well expressed by him all
the way through the testimony..â€•
My intention with my comment was to say that what ever for, he rightly and courageously
accused Nixon (and others) in 1971 he is ashamed now to acknowledge as a current
situation truth and is even prepared to come in to the Nixonâ€™s shoesâ€¦
"We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that
service as easily as this administration has wiped their memories of us. But all
that they have done and all that they can do by this denial is to make more
clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission, to search
out and destroy the last vestige of this barbarous war, to pacify our own hearts,
to conquer the hate and the fear that have driven this country these last 10
years and more and so when, in 30 years from now, our brothers go down the
street without a leg, without an arm or a face, and small boys ask why, we will
be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory
but mean instead the place where America finally turned and where soldiers
like us helped it in the turning."
@CJ, point taken. Where's Nemo?
All, this Kerry testimony is really powerful stuff. If he starts to use this line as SusanG
hopes.............. he's a shoe-in.
May 3, 2003. Kerry : "I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a
greater opportunity. But I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein. And
when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did
disarm [Saddam]."
The Iraq invasion was delayed from September (at least..) to March principally through
other countriesâ€™ obstruction, but also by Iraqâ€™s compliance (e.g. permitting return of
inspectors which, in theory, should have kept Iraq safe for 60 days for assessment and 6
months for the inspections.) Everyone worked together to put it off, again, and again.
Turkey was the last to poke spokes into the wheels, delaying the invasion yet once more by
what? -a week or more, I no longer remember. Even Blair tried to delay. The aim was to try
and get into the summer, in which case, it was hoped, the US military would not move
(heat) and the whole affair would be put off until the next October or so.
Kerry could not have overcome those obstructions. France, China, Russia (and Germany)
stood very firm. Iraq, too, would not have behaved differently. It was clear that the US
(with the UK playing a shifting role) was up against the rest of the world (leaving out
Micronesia, Australia..). The US could back down; or invade unilaterally, pre-emptively
and illegally. Plans had been formed a long time ago; intentions had been stated publicly,
many times.
Why would Kerry have given more time to â€˜diplomatic processesâ€™? To what end,
with what result? The rest of the world (...) was opposed to an invasion and nothing would
have changed that. In fact, opposition stiffened as time went on (e.g. public pressure; e.g.
Chile appalled at spying, etc.) Does Kerry mean that the inspections would have just gone
on and on? And that, finally, it would have been determined that Iraq was no threat, and
that thus there was no reason to invade?
It would be nice to think so. (Despite the fact that he has said he approves of the invasion.)
However -- All of Kerryâ€™s discourse is based on his stated or implicit belief in the
existence of Iraq WMD prior to some very recent time. Nowhere is it ever suggested that he
had doubts about aluminum tubes, yellow cake from Niger (etc.) (afaik. ?.) Many reports
(and intelligence) in the 5 years prior to the invasion showed that Iraq had no WMD. What
more proof could have been forthcoming? Kerry is stuck with his past adherence to the
whole process of the build-up to war (sham WMD, â€˜threatsâ€™ to make Saddam
â€˜capitulate,â€™ etc.) and then somehow disaproving of the result. His objections are
tinny, hollow, as they hark back to the build-up / planning process itself (international
alliances, plan for â€˜the peaceâ€™, more diplomacy, faulty intelligence, etc.) and not the
result! (And lastly, Kerry knew the WMD were sham, as did everyone except perhaps
Bush.. )
I think that Kerry truthfully is very critical of Bushâ€™s handling of this matter. What he is
angry about is the fact that it was delayed so long, that the enterprise faltered, was slow,
uncertain and therefore beset with difficulties and snarls; that not enough troops were sent
to secure â€˜the peaceâ€™; that the occupation is somewhat messy; and that the rest of the
world is not participating. As he has said. However, he cannot now state his judgment of
the fundamental error made, but has in the past:
From his Oct. 9, 2002 speech:
â€œA brutal, oppressive dictator, guilty of personally murdering and condoning murder and
torture, grotesque violence against women, execution of political opponents, a war criminal
who used chemical weapons against another nation and, of course, as we know, against his
own people, the Kurds. He has diverted funds from the Oil-for-Food program, intended by
the international community to go to his own people. He has supported and harbored
terrorist groups, particularly radical Palestinian groups such as Abu Nidal, and he has given
money to families of suicide murderers in Israel.â€•
(...)
â€œThe events of September 11 created new understanding of the terrorist threat and the
degree to which every nation is vulnerable. That understanding enabled the administration
to form a broad and impressive coalition against terrorism. Had the administration tried
then to capitalize on this unity of spirit to build a coalition to disarm Iraq, we would not be
here in the pressing days before an election, late in this year, debating this now. The
administration's decision to engage on this issue now, rather than a year ago or earlier, and
the manner in which it has engaged, has politicized and complicated the national debate and
raised questions about the credibility of their case.â€•
Kerry would have smashed into Iraq right after 9/11 with more force than Bush, and with a
large coalition. If one understands this, everything he has said recently is coherent, and
flip-flopping there is none, only omission.
Kerry quotes from
Slate Bushblog IndiesforKerry
@Blackie
Depressing........... more of the same but worse.
"So, let's see: Bona-fide war hero turned incredibly articulate, educated, gifted
Vietnam War protester and respected senator on one side, alcoholic AWOL
failed-businessman born-again pampered daddy's boy evangelical Christian on
the other. Is this really the contest? Bush slugs gin and tonics like Evian while
Kerry is accused of ... what again? Not being incredibly heroic enough?
Wow."
There's more.
The great cite BEQ presented indicates to me that Kerry opposed both the war and the
atrocites. It is no great contradiction in my mind for an individual to support something, get
there, see whats really going on, and denounce it when you're "retired". Happens all the
time in civilian occupations and government.It's similar to whistle blowing.
Finally, I think it took real guts for Kerry to take that stand, with the likes of Nixon and
Agnew running the show.
No, it is not a contradiction for a person to support an endeavor and then, having
experienced it firsthand, oppose same. One of the questions I asked above is, When did
Kerry conclude that the Vietnam war was wrong? Did he support the war before obtaining
his commission in the Navy? Was he in favor of it, did he agree with it, prior to his tenure
in the Navy? I have read that he did not support the war prior to his time in the service. If
he did not, then what was the motivation for his voluntary stint in the military?
@beq
Thank you very much for the link to Kerry's testimony. There is quite a bit to think about.
@anna missed
I gather we are a looooong way off from any suggestion or reprise of "peace with honor."
This "war," as it stands, is about keeping our casualty count low and minimizing it on the
other side as well. Is it possible to overstate the extraordinary sensitivity of our political
leadership to criticism from the media - and in turn, the public? There is a not insignificant
element of fear that plays a role, even a decisive one, in the decision-making process. It is
not a fear of losing. (The waters have been sufficiently muddied regarding what constitutes
winning and losing, success and failure, in major military operations that from a political
standpoint these are not overriding concerns.) It is a fear of the NY Times and the WaPo. It
is a fear of "international opinion." It is a fear of the morning's headlines and the evening's
news reels.
This fear exists side-by-side with the memory and reverence of WWII, which does its own
haunting.
Makes for interesting psychology.
@Blackie:
Q: Under what future conditions would you support a pre-emptive military strike against
another nation without wide international approval?
KERRY: Only when the US is so threatened that it is required for the survival of our
country or for the accomplishment of some extraordinary humanitarian goal. (Jan 2004.)
The question posed is insanely idiotic. To pre-empt means to prevent that which is
imminent. Do I want any of my leaders and decision-makers to be wasting time seeking
"wide international approval" for pre-emption, which is both necessary and legal under
international law? What kind of craven moron seeks the permission of those who are not
threatened for defending those who are?
Kerry's response is just as bad. Threatened with all-out annihilation he would act without
wide international approval. Well, that's a fuckin' relief. Also, he would carry out
non-pre-approved, pre-emptive operations "for the accomplishment of some extraordinary
humanitarian goal." Nevermind that extraordinary humanitarian goals are what the
international community loves, and would be quite unlikely to reject under any
circumstances. What about anything and everything between these two instances Kerry
offers? What about an imminent danger that does not threaten the very survival of our
country? Al Qaeda certainly isn't an existential threat. We can be neither overthrown nor
wiped out by them. So we still would require the approval of the Belgians, the French, the
Chinese, and whomever else to take pre-emptive action in such a case?
This kind of sad, frightening, confused nonsense is unique to neither this interviewer nor to
Kerry. It's epidemic.
Pat: When did Kerry conclude that the Vietnam war was wrong? Did he support the war
before obtaining his commission in the Navy? Was he in favor of it, did he agree with it,
prior to his tenure in the Navy? I have read that he did not support the war prior to his time
in the service. If he did not, then what was the motivation for his voluntary stint in the
military?
Credential for political career? He wouldn't be the first or last...
Posted by: eb | August 27, 2004 10:31 PM
Credential for political career? He wouldn't be the first or last...
Willingness to take part in a war one opposes, for the purpose of political credentialing, is
not an admirable - but rather a dangerous - trait.
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« NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004 | Main | Your Weekly Terror Threat »
Moon of Alabama: NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Oily Thread II | Main | The Mailman »
August 25, 2004
NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004
by anna missed
Pentagon officials today indicated that the current deployment of an additional 90,000
troops to Iraq is proceeding according to plans that were revealed three weeks ago. Forces
that were deactivated from Korea, Germany and other European military bases have
received their one week reorientation training and are currently in route to Kuwait to await
final orders. Following the two Shiite uprisings in October and the joint Sunni- Shiite revolt
in early November outgoing Bush administration officials say that in order to keep the
promised January 30 election schedule on track additional security was needed.
President Bush was quoted yesterday, at the Crawford ranch, â€œI made a promise to the
Iraqi people and IÂ´ll keep that promise, they will have democracy before I leave officeâ€•.
Former Iraqi defence minister and now acting Prime Minister Hazem Shaalan, also at the
Crawford ranch, expressed the need for more security â€œIf we donÂ´t receive the security
there will be nobody left to voteâ€•.
The new Iraqi government and their US supporters have been plagued in recent months by
the growing anti-Iraqi movement that has seen an advance in both in their numbers and the
flood of sophisticated weaponry that has been spirited into the country from Iran and Syria.
The controversy over the origin of the surface to air missile launchers that has created so
much tension with the Russians, perhaps bringing back some unpleasant memories of the
Soviet Afghan war, with the US supplying high tech weapons to the Afghan rebels.
Russia's Putin has also lashed out at the US for the alleged deployment of two nuclear
equipped submarines into the Persian Gulf. Washington has denied these allocations.
China, also has weighed in on the Iranian question with significant foot dragging on the
upcoming talks with N. Korea.
The new troop deployment for Iraq has generated some controversy here in Washington
with some on the democratic side claiming â€œI told you soâ€• arguing that 90,000 will not
do the job so late in the game. While the general opinion on the hill is supportive of the
â€œaugmentationâ€• some also worry that plans are being laid out to provide a â€œcover
forceâ€• for a withdrawal, others in the minority, complain that this is an escalation for the
eventual invasion of Iran.
Both Bush and president elect Kerry express the mantra â€œwe cannot lose this war, we
must stay the courseâ€•.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/news_service_de.html (1 von 10) [16.11.2004 18:45:06]
Related news:
● President elect Kerry has endorsed the Bush administrations reinstatement of
conscription laws, vowing to use the new recruits in stateside duty only. Kerry has
called out the duty as â€œholding down the fortâ€•, here at home.
● Another anti-Iraqi attack on the green zone has led ambassador Negroponte to
advocate another wall to be built a half mile out around the green zone creating a
no-man zone perimeter to prevent the â€œpickup truckâ€• mortar barrages that have
become a nightly event.
● 26 US peace keepers were killed yesterday in various engagements around Iraq,
bringing the total to 1, 687 killed in action since the beginning of hostilities.
● Unnamed pentagon sources disclosed yesterday that satellite images indicate that the
increase in Iranian troop movements have continued unabated.
Comments
In other developments, Ariel Sharon has said that the 20,000 new houses being built in the
West Bank are part and parcel of the Gaza Pullout Plan, scheduled to commence after the
next General Election which Sharon is betting his electorial life on.
The Fatwa issued by Sistani on June 3, 2004
"Even so, if this government hopes to establish its worthiness and probity and its
unwavering determination to shoulder the immense burdens now facing it, it must:
1. Obtain a clear resolution from the United Nations Security Council on the return of
complete sovereignty over their country to the Iraqis, unconstrained in any regard, whether
political, economic, military, or security-related. Every effort must be made to efface all
signs of occupation in every way.
2. Provision of security in every part of the country and putting an end to organized
criminal activities, as well as all criminal actions.
3. Provision of public services to the citizens and reducing the effort necessary for them to
pursue their everyday lives.
4. First-rate preparation for general elections, and keeping to the appointed date, which is at
the beginning of the coming new year according to the Christian calendar, so that a national
assembly can be formed that is not bound by any of the decisions issued in the shadow of
the Occupation, including what they call the Law for the Administration of the Transitional
State [i.e. the Interim Constitution].
The new government will never obtain popular acceptance save if it demonstrates through
actual and practical steps that it is striving with earnestness and sincerity to fulfill the above
mission. May God enable all to do as He wills and as pleases Him.
14 Rabi II, 1425
The Office of Sayyid Sistani"
We need a betting pool here at MoA, don't we?
Escalation, yes. Iran, no. January elections, no. Conscription, no.
your use of newspeak is disgusting. and i would have preferred these "related news":
* another anti-iraqi attack on the green zone has left about 30 dead and over 100 wounded.
among the dead were the 10 bodyguards of ambassador negroponte. while many bodies
have yet to be identified, the whereabouts of ambassador negroponte are unknown.
* crude oil jumped $14 to $86/barrel overnight after iran warned the US about continued
airspace violations, and gave 7 days to the US to reposition its 3 carrier battle groups
currently deployed in the persian gulf away from the area.
* Chaotic scenes seen in front of the german embassy in Tel-Aviv, where thousands of
descendants of German jews are applying for passports for them and their families.
* In another setback to US foreign policy in the region, North and South Korea have
announced their intention to hold talks aimed at a normalization in the relations between
the two countries. The US Dept of State issued travel warnings after two US soldiers were
killed in Seoul and several American citizens were beaten up by angry mobs after a scheme
involving US troops to abduct and traffic Korean minors for prostitution and child
pornography became known. A Pentagon speaker would not comment the case. Japan
expressed fears that a reunified Korea with nuclear armament could further destabilize the
region and threaten its own interests.
* Various Internet sites have uncovered evidence that the current death toll among US and
coalition troops is bordering the 8000 mark. Details to be released soon.
* Protests have broken out in Germany and Italy after civilian hospitals in towns near US
bases were closed to the public due to the heavy load of wounded US soldiers. Halliburton
has been commissioned to build 3 major hospitals for the US military, but they would not
enter service before late 2006. The Pentagon is currently in talks with Congress to authorize
a supplement of $20 BN to the defense budget for their construction and operation.
OK, not a future news (though I may come with something soon), but a real current one:
In-law of Defense Minister Shaalan kidnapped
This may be very interesting...
@CJ
Kidnapping finished Carter. The Iranians and Shi'ites know that already,
however, Defense Minister for Iraq?
Wishful Thinking:
A day after his inauguration president Kerry announced to withdraw all troops from Iraq by
April 1, 2005. He called on international forces and the UN to guarantee the inviolableness
of the Iraqi borders and statehood.
In his speech he also announced that he would veto any future financial support for the
state of Israel as long as the Israeli Prime Minister and parliament would not agree to a
complete trackback to the 1967 boarder and the total controlled disarmend of biological,
chemical and nuclear weapons.
He announced to achieve a reduction of 50% of the budget of the Pentagon and the
Department of Energy (the holder of the US nuclear arms) within two years and to invest
the estimated 300 billion reduction per year into open source, license free research on and
development of alternative energy sources and energy preservance technology.
In a further step he proposed new tax, social security and medical support legislation that
would narrow the spread of income clusters in the US from currently 1,000 p.y. up to
1,000,000,000 per year to 10,000 p.y. up to 1,000,000 per year.
To repay the unprecedented debt the US has accumulated against foreign savers, he called
on the FED to increase interest rates to a level where saving would again be felt as virtue
and debt as vice.
future news II
here some stuff from the gossip columns of june/2005 which i forgot to post:
* while the daughter of former president bush, barbara, has been touring US bases in
kuwait and qatar, her sister jenna has reportedly been admitted to a hospital in bethesda in
urgent condition. medical personnel dismiss rumors that she is in coma due to a heroin
overdose while describing her condition as "worrying but stable". Former cabinet member
Dr. Rice was seen at the hospital during a visit.
* the husband of ana marie cox, who is widely known as "wonkette", has filed for divorce
after discovering that ms. cox entertained a covert romance with jessica cutler
a.k.a."washingtonienne". ms. cox has described ms. cutler as a "queen of the strapon" in her
usual lighthearted manner.
* a speaker for theresa heinz, wife of president kerry, denied that ms. heinz had punched a
reporter in the nose during a brawl which reportedly ensued after several reporters asked
the first woman off the mark questions about her family life. the secret service had no
comment.
* former head of the department of homeland security tom ridge has recovered after having
been shot in what has been described as an accident during a hunting excursion with former
AG ashcroft and the just retired justice scalia.
future news II
here some stuff from the gossip columns of june/2005 which i forgot to post:
* while the daughter of former president bush, barbara, has been touring US bases in
kuwait and qatar, her sister jenna has reportedly been admitted to a hospital in bethesda in
urgent condition. medical personnel dismiss rumors that she is in coma due to a heroin
overdose while describing her condition as "worrying but stable". Former cabinet member
Dr. Rice was seen at the hospital during a visit.
* the husband of ana marie cox, who is widely known as "wonkette", has filed for divorce
after discovering that ms. cox entertained a covert romance with jessica cutler
a.k.a."washingtonienne". ms. cox has described ms. cutler as a "queen of the strapon" in her
usual lighthearted manner.
* a speaker for theresa heinz, wife of president kerry, denied that ms. heinz had punched a
reporter in the nose during a brawl which reportedly ensued after several reporters asked
the first woman off the mark questions about her family life. the secret service had no
comment.
* former head of the department of homeland security tom ridge has recovered after having
been shot in what has been described as an accident during a hunting excursion with former
AG ashcroft and the just retired justice scalia.
Future news
Washington August 25th 2005: Porter Goss, the head of the American Citizen Surveillance
Unit (formerly known as the CIA), told a press conference today that he has received
'pretty solid information' about a plot to assassinate Abraham Lincoln.
He added that as a security precaution armed guards are to be placed on all hospital
operating theaters...
Posted by: Nemo | August 25, 2004 08:19 PM
@name
Your right, my bone in the soup here is in all likelyhood a little on the small side, But,
considering the trajectory the US occupation is currently on, and its progressive spiral out
of control, major escalation seems the only alternative(to regain control), My question then,
does escalation provoke a strong Iranian reaction first, a Russian and then perhaps a
Chinese reaction? Would the sense of (of being in) really deep water transform the
occupation into something altogether different?If the US runs up against a buried
Russian/Chinese wall? How would these stakes play to the US public?
And b,
Could J.F.Kerry as the president elect, not find himself so very poetically, atop the 1965
LBJ horns of a dilemma (can't leave cant stay) and actually have the power, this time, to
stop it before all those thousands are led off the cliff? To see the echo from the past return,
this time, with authority?
But then again like that old Steve Martin SNL skit:
Naaaaaaaaaah.
I dont' think there will be escalation if Kerry is elected.
But I'm a simple minded guy.
I don't see Iraq as an intractable morass.
To get out you just get out.
I suspect the solution that Kerry's Cabinet will come upon will look something like this:
Put a retired General with lots of world-wide good will in charge of an overarching
program called "Operation Iraqi Freedom II."
(A General with the moral weight of say...General George Marshall--yeah I am thinking of
Wes Clark here.)
Cut out the Halliburton middle men from the $upply chain of cash going to actual Iraqis.
The idea is to create a new Iraq army that pays well. Real well. So well that families and
lots of relatives can live off the salary.
Establish a policy that for every 1000 new Iraq troops that go on duty, 1000 American
troops come home.
Insist that Prince Allawi, or whoever is in charge, pledge an oath to future elections even as
you empower him to run a martial state.
(That's a dilemma we are just going to have to live with.)
Continue to train Iraqi soldiers and siphon off Americans on a 1-for-1 basis as fast as
possible.
Whatever happens after the last American soldier leaves is an issue between the UN and the
current Iraqi leadership.
It is that simple.
Do it.
But...but...Koreyel, we don't WANT Iraqis or the UN in charge of all those scrumtious oil
reserves and desert real estate that Israel needs for expansion.
So the answer is NO, I will not DO IT.
--Yours Truly, Sen and Prez hopeful John Kerry
Posted by: rapt | August 26, 2004 09:32 AM
Jeeeez, What if Vietnam had had oil?
Jean-Marc Mojon reports from Najaf: Thousands of Shiites end Najaf siege
Tears ran down his wrinkled face and his feet barely touched the ground as the
elated crowd squeezed through the gates and into the shrine's courtyard.
He and the others were greeted like heroes by the 300 besieged Sadr
militiamen inside.
"This is democracy"
"God is great. This is democracy, this is the new Iraq, this is the greatest
defeat we could have inflicted on the Americans. It's the most beautiful day
in my life," he shouted, hurrying inside the main mausoleum to pray.
...
Further up the stream of at least 20 000 demonstrators, in the Al-Jadida
neighbourhood outside the Old City, a surreal scene unfolded as bewildered
American soldiers trapped in their tanks watched as posters of Sistani and
Moqtada posters were waved in their faces.
Al-Sadr is back into the underground, his people are going home for now and Sistani is in
control of the Shrine. The interim Iraqi government and The US have lost their face big
time and the US troops are bewildered. Some thousand people are dead, more wounded and
the old city of Najaf is bombed to rubble.
The big question - who organized this and why?
Even if the whole mess was started, as the NYT had reported, by local US commander
without higher approval, the US could have stopped this any time. As there was no positive
solution in sight - killing Al Sadr would have started a bigger insurgency - why wasnÂ´t
this done?
Sistanis leaving in time and hurrying back shortly after the occupation powers have reached
the gate of the shrine is somehow fishy. What was his role?
There are some interesting books waiting to be written about The Siege of Najaf
Indeed, Bernhard. I could see 2 main explanations. The first is that Allawi and co knew
Sistani had to leave soon to get treated in London, so they timed the attack in the hope Sadr
and his boys would all be field fertilizer by the time Sistani came back. The other is that
Sistani preferred to go out until things were heated enough and a complete catastrophe was
at hand, to reappear as a saviour. I suppose his quick return has even increased his already
massive influence on Shia Iraq, given the situation.
Then, as I said in Kos, I can't rule out that he's not that estranged from Sadr and that they're
playing the classic good cop / bad cop stint to Negroponte and Allawi.
We may have a clearer view in 24 hours, after negotiations, when the truce is theoretically
over.
If I can't say if Sadr or Sistani is the biggest winner, or if both actually win, the US and the
puppet Iraqi govt are on the losers' side big time; people won't forget that the old city has
been half destroyed, the cemetery bombed to smithereens, and the shrine itself damaged.
...people won't forget that the old city has been half destroyed, the cemetery bombed to
smithereens, and the shrine itself damaged.
Nice post Cluefull Joe.
I just want to comment on the above snip.
It is something we all understand-- nevertheless is worth repeating.
The greatest disaster to ever befall a people was 9/11.
The second greaest disaster to befall a people was the most recent Florida hurricane.
Western media has no memory, and little recognition of bombs falling in the old city of
Najaf.
Najaf is a "no place" of "nobodies".
It is not on anybody's radar screen (save the air forces).
Doesn't matter if Najaf was a world heritage site.
Doesn't matter if 200 children got blown to bits.
Doesn't matter if vital archeological sites got destroyed.
Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
Najaf and its Iraqis are "no place important" --they are the new invisibles and the latest
untouchables.
Truly--the stone relics of Najaf matter less than the flimsy trailers of Florida.
It's all about the media. Who controls the media and what the media thinks is important.
And that my friends... is the quintessential sin of the times we live in.
It is enough to make a grown man vomit.
according to GlobalSecurity.org Iraq: US Dead Tops 1000
@beq what if Viet Nam had had oil
were you being sarcastic?
'cos umm, it does -- potentially. it did, potentially. you can bet the French knew that when
they were renaming it "Indochine". some of that potential is being developed right now.
what did you think that whole Indochine/Vietnam thing was about, anyway? a sudden
obsession with high-quality rice? how soon they forget...
look, the divvying-up of the world's petroleum fields by the old colonial powers has been
going on since at least the 1920's, starting when far-thinking corporadoes and pols realised
some of the implications of the automobile, natural gas extraction, petro-based synthetic
chemistry (WWI nerve gases among other nifty products), air power in warfare and so
forth.
the British weren't in Iraq (they called it Mesopotamia at the time) for the great cuisine
(more fools they), they were there for the oil. the Iraqis kicked them out rather decisively in
1916, siege of Kut.
why'd you think CIA got rid of democratically-elected Mossadegh and put the boy-prince
Shah on the throne in '53, condemning Iranians to 20 years of suffering under Reza and his
pet torturers and assassins of SAVAK? because British Petroleum asked them to, as a
favour -- Mossadegh was talking about nationalising the Iranian oil fields, and the old
colonial masters weren't having any of that uppity-wog talk.
and of course, 20 years of SAVAK paved the way for the revolution of the ayatollahs... all
that "Muslim extremism" that made the US find it advisable to hire a strictly secular
strongman called Saddam Hussein circa '63 to prevent similar occurrences in, ahem oil-rich
Iraq...
anyway, for anyone who really has forgotten: it's not "what if Viet Nam had had oil" -- it's
"wouldn't Viet Nam have been way luckier if it hadn't had any oil," 'cos then the French
might not have been in such a fever to acquire it and the Amis in such a fever to steal it
from the French.
my $.02 -- ymmv.
Posted by: DeAnander | August 27, 2004 03:29 AM
@koreyel - good point. People that do not already know that they need to find more
perspective will not find it spontaneously in today's media (or very erratically).
@DeAnander - I am skeptical that Vietnam was in any way about oil, even for the French.
However, it might trigger a future conflict with China, as both countries claim waters in the
South China Sea where big offshore deposits are expected to be found (it's Vietnamese
territorial waters, but it's the South China Sea, which is big enough claim for them....) See
previous skirmiches re Spratley Islands - this is smoldering and could blow up in the not so
distant future.
@koreyel - good point. People that do not already know that they need to find more
perspective will not find it spontaneously in today's media (or very erratically).
@DeAnander - I am skeptical that Vietnam was in any way about oil, even for the French.
However, it might trigger a future conflict with China, as both countries claim waters in the
South China Sea where big offshore deposits are expected to be found (it's Vietnamese
territorial waters, but it's the South China>/i> Sea, which is big enough claim for them....)
See previous skirmiches re Spratley Islands - this is smoldering and could blow up in the
not so distant future.
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« Oily Thread II | Main | The Mailman »
Moon of Alabama: Oily Thread
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Unintended Consequences | Main | In Memoriam August 19, 2003 »
August 18, 2004
Oily Thread
Oil and Other Topics
Comments
The EconomistÂ´s unmistakeable Buttonwood on Pouring oil on the flames
Buttonwood is pleased to report that his Fiat Punto is no longer being carted
off to the great garage in the sky. .. The Punto has one big advantage: it
doesnâ€™t use much petrol.
...
the more nervous, Buttonwood among them, worry about the situation in
America. An increase in gasoline prices acts as a tax. And this sharply higher
tax is being forced through just as interest rates are rising and fiscal policy is
being tightened.
American households are already stretched, with debt-service costs at record
levels. It should therefore come as little surprise that the economy is showing
signs of weakness.
In the 1970s the [oil-]tax was paid for largely by consumers in the form of
inflation, which ate away at the worth of any investment with fixed returns.
But this time inflation is muted, for now at least.
... companies will have to pick up some of it through lower margins. There is
plenty of room for them to do so because profits are at record highs. Falling
profits are unlikely to be anything but baleful for a stockmarket that is
generously valued and under pressure from rising interest rates. Any industry
heavily exposed to a high oil price and falling consumption would not seem
the most toothsome of investments.
Translation:
High oil prices will stay, stocks will go down,
treasuries are okay for now, but watch out, inflation will come (i.e use TIPS)
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/oily_thread.html (1 von 23) [16.11.2004 18:45:14]
Another bill for the US taxpayer
@CP
These hothouse the Gaza imperialists are building now to get compensation later, will of
course be destroyed when the "settlers" leave. Otherwise, the palestines would use them to
grow granates.
Kerry Attacks Bush on Troop Withdrawal Plan"
DidnÂ´t Kerry get the note? Two divisions from Germany plus an Air Force wing will go
to permanent station in Iraq and one division will be distributed throughout the various
Oili-stans at the southern Russian boarder. Nobody wants to bring troops home.
@B:on Oil Stans
What Do You Think of the concept of a New Great Game? I don't understand it all, but it
seems plausible.
The New Great Game
Posted by: FlashHarry | August 18, 2004 03:17 PM
@FlashHarry
The book is laying in front of me to be read this night or tomorrow and write something up
for the Moon. To me it sounds logical, though the China card is the great unknown. The US
will try to split China through cival unrest. If that doesnÂ´t work the Stans and Siberia are
Chinese and the Renimbi is the worlds major currency followed by Euro and US$. (Fine
with me)
There is an interview online with Lutz Kleveman at Financial Sense
Also here is a great line from todays Newsday 1.3 billion reasons to worry about oil
With 1.3 billion people, a phenomenal rate of economic growth, and an
insatiable consumer demand for cars, China will soon come into direct
conflict with the United States over oil, the world's most valuable and
increasingly scarce industrial commodity.
@Flash Harry.
The great game, from Mother Jones, April 2003, by R. Dreyfuss:
The Thirty-Year Itch
...Three decades ago, in the throes of the energy crisis, Washington's hawks conceived
of a strategy for US control of the Persian Gulf's oil. Now, with the same strategists
firmly in control of the White House, the Bush administration is playing out their
script for global dominance.
Excerpt:
...Akins learned a hard lesson about the politics of oil when he served as a U.S. envoy in
Kuwait and Iraq, and ultimately as ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the oil crisis of
1973 and '74. At his home in Washington, D.C., shelves filled with Middle Eastern
pottery and other memorabilia cover the walls, souvenirs of his years in the Foreign
Service. Nearly three decades later, he still gets worked up while recalling his first
encounter with the idea that the United States should be prepared to occupy Arab
oil-producing countries.
In 1975, while Akins was ambassador in Saudi Arabia, an article headlined "Seizing
Arab Oil" appeared in Harper's. The author, who used the pseudonym Miles Ignotus,
was identified as "a Washington-based professor and defense consultant with intimate
links to high-level U.S. policymakers." The article outlined, as Akins puts it, "how we
could solve all our economic and political problems by taking over the Arab oil fields
[and] bringing in Texans and Oklahomans to operate them." ....
Link
sorry bold!
Bernhard - thanks for starting the oil thread. I will post several small posts with various
upbeat messages...
The first one is a reaction to the most catastrophist and pessimist commenters around here
and at the Whiskey Annex (referring amongst other things to Peak oil and its possible
consequences) is - the absolute worst case scenario is not so bad.
It means relying only on really renewable energies like hydro, wind and solar. Large hydro
is the cheapest energy around and can offer storage capacity (just pump the water back
upwards). Wind costs today at most 20-50% than coal pr gas-fired power plants (wit hlast
years's commodity prices...) Solar panel kWh still cost today 10 times more than gas or coal
fired plants but can be used anywhere.
We can do pretty much everything with electricity, including private transportation (maybe
not with as much flexibilty - yet - as gas fuelled cars, but enough for most needs already)
with today's technology, and we can expect serious improvements if incentives suddenly
favor non-oil energy sources. We can use electricity to recycle whatever materials become
rare.
This means that in the very worst case, our energy bill goes up by 5-10 times. Is it
disruptive? Yes. Would it cause a major economic crisis? Probably. Would it be the end of
the world, or at least of civilisation as we know it? No.
Our past and current growth has been artificially accelerated by unsustainably low
transportation costs, but this artificial wealth will allow us to pour the necessary resources
into improving the existing renewable energy sources which already exist today.
So let's not despair yet...
Posted by: JÃ©rÃ´me | August 18, 2004 04:12 PM
@B and Blackie:
This will give me some very scary reading for tonight.
JÃ©rÃ´me: As far as I'm concerned, the possibility of going on with individual cars is
NOT a good news for me; that is one of the biggest and most insane invention the sick
human mind ever came up with, imho - for a wide range of reasons, from pollution to urban
sprawl to mere waste of good metal that is basically used 2% of the time, not to mention
health issues related or non-related to car accidents.
"The US will try to split China through cival unrest"
Yep, civil war in China is clearly the simplest and best way of making sure they can't
become a superpower, at least not now when there's still something to rule over. I've always
wondered how many leaders in the West could worry that much about China. It's exactly
like the current problems the US has with Arabs and islamists: they created it. For the
Arabs, it was with the stupid oil addiction, that funded the Saudis and then most of the area
and every single islamist organisation in the world. For China, it's by outsourcing and
moving there factories. If the West didn't want to make quick easy money by buying
Chinese stuff, but instead worked the huge internal divides of China, it wouldn't be too hard
to bring them back to what they were in 1920. Not that I'm advocating it, but I just want to
point that it's their own greed that actually causes what worries so much the Western
wealthy elites.
FH - I have actually met the author of the "New Great Game" and seen him on various
occasions in Baku, Azerbaijan. I have not read this book but would advise you to find other
sources for information on that region, as I found this author extremely partial and
one-sided on several local conflicts. In particular, he is very pro-Azerbaijan vs. Armenia
and Russia.
I know the region (and its oil projects) very well and would be happy to give you any info
on specific topics if you need. I recently got my bank to finance the BTC project (the link is
to the offical BP site, but it gives you a decent overview) so i can probably give you more
details than you ever wished...
JÃ©rÃ´me: Hmmm, I've read a few articles hinting that the Caspian reserves weren't as
easy to tap and as huge as first expected; still big and worth pumping, but definitely not a
new Persian Gulf. If you can actually comment about this (I don't want you to get into
trouble by spreading unauthorised info), I'd like to have it (no need to make a long detailed
reply of course).
Your comments about wind were timely: Spanish socialist govt plans to triple wind power.
Will be just 12%, which isn't much compared to what nuclear and oil power can bring, but
a pretty impressive result nonetheless; and if there are actual measures for energy
conservation, this will be even more effective and useful.
(oh yeah, and why could Spain actually produce greehouse gas 15% above 1990 level,
when the average European aim is something like -8%? It's not as if they're a 3rd world
country that is still in the first stages of industrailisation)
CJ - I am not saying that our world would not change, I am simply saying that the change is
survivable.
It is likely that, should we move to electricity-powered transportation (which currently
means battery powered car, thus only small distances feasible in one go), we would move
to new forms of transport economics and ownership. Train would be prevalent for
city-to-city transport, and public transportation (such as tramways or light rail systems)
would get a huge boost. Even individual car use could be based on shared ownership, with
big vehicle pools where individual "cars" or "cells" would be available - for rental or an
equivalent concept - to all and anyone for local transport (probably within tighly controlled
transport grids). We wouls still have a lot of freedom to travel, but not the same way as
before. Of course, the impact of all this on housing patterns would take quite a few years to
be felt, but would reinforce such trends...
(Remember that the US can divide its oil consumtion by 2 (and reduce world demand by
10-12%) by switching to European-sized cars, and remember that Europeans are pretty
much insensitive to gas prices even with the 7$/gal price tag, so it will take a lot more than
the current price increases to change individual behavior. I'd say that you need at least
200$/barrel (or 10$/gal) to get real changes in behavior)
@Jerome:
I'm not a catastrophist, either, so after reading your link, perhaps I won't have to clutch my
teddy bear so tight tonight.
The ultimate problem is, I think, not so much what the "reality" is--and I'm sure you've got
a real good grip on the reality; the problem is the "reality" that resides in the NeoClowns
minds.
I hope to hell I'm wrong.
CJ - there has been a lot more variation in the hype surrounding the Caspian than in the
actual reserves... To make it simple, Caspian "oil" is currently based on 5 giant fields:
- Azeri-Chirag-Gunashli (ACG), previously known as AIOC, developed by a consortium
led by BP. It is offshore in the Azeri part of the Caspian, not very far from Baku. It has
about 4 billion barrels of oil reserves. It is already under production at a lowish level
(150,000 b/d) and is about to grow to 800,000 b/d. This oil will be exported via the BTC
pipe I mentioned previously
- Shah-Deniz. This is a gas field, also offshore in the Azeri part of the Caspian. It is also
developed by a consortium led by BP (different form the previous one). It is currently
under development, and is expected to start exporting gas to Turkey in a couple of years
(via a pipeline, the SCP, that runs parallel to BTC). The trouble is that Turkey already has
too much gas on its market (mostly Russian) and BP et al. are trying to find ways to
transport that gas further to Europe, but that's not done yet.
- Tengiz. This is an onshore field across and near the Caspian in Kazakhstan. It is
developed by ChevronTexaco, with ExxonMobil and Lukoil. It is currently producing close
to 250-300 000 b/d, which are exported via the CPC pipeline running from Tengiz to
Novorossisk in Russia (paid for mostly by Chevron, but part-owned by Russia and
Kazakhstan, and the only pipeline in Russia outside of the control of tha national oil
pipeline monopoly Transneft, so a perpetual source of headaches... but before CPC they
used railcars (7000) through Russia or barges on the canals to Finland, so it's a nicer kind of
headache!). Tengiz is also on is way to increase production to 600-800 000 b/d in a couple
of years (all to go through CPC). A lot of sulphur in the field, so Chevron is literally stuck
with mountains of sulfur near the produciton site, it's quite a mess. Tengiz is the 6th largest
oil field on the planet; with 10+ billion barrels, IIRC.
- Karachaganak. That's a mostly gas fields, but with some associated liquids. It's in
northwest Kazakhstan near the Russian border. It is developed jointly by ENI (Italy), BG
(UK, Lukoil (Russia) and ChevronTexaco. It can only produce gas and liquids
simultaneously, which means that both must be sold for the field to produce. Gas is mostly
given to Gazprom, the Russian gas monopoly, which controls all the gas pipelines around
(and still controls the only gas-processing plant nearby, so the sponsors have to beg
Gazprom to take the gas - but they are currently building their own). Oil/liquids are now
exported via the CPC through a recently built connecting pipe; about 100,000 b/d now,
expected to grow to 250,000 b/d in the near future. It's a huge field, but its prospects are
impaired by the gas situation. Fascinating politics...
- Kashagan. This is the biggest discovery of the past 30 years, currently the 5th biggest
field on the planet (10-15 billion barrels - about the same as all of the remaining US
reserves - and it could be even bigger). It's in the Northern Caspian sea, on the Kazakh side.
All the majors are in: ExxonMobil, Shell, Total, ENI (who is the operator because Shell did
not want Exxon to be it and vice-versa...), ConocoPhilips and the Japanese. BP had a share,
whic they sold to the Chinese, but the existing shareholders premepted the sale, creating a
big crisis with China last year (Google Kashagan BP Shell China).
No production yet, but expected to reach 1 to 1.5 million b/d in a few years. It's a very
difficult field (high pressures; located in a zone which is at different times of the year sea,
swamp or ice; and several hundred kms from any town or road). Oil export routes have not
been chosen yet, but a combination of BTC and CPC should do at first. Routes to China
(strong demand, but no existing transportation) and Iran (the cheapest pipe to build) are
likely in 10-15 years, which should be fun to watch as well...
These 5 fields, which are all developed by Western majors under PSAs with some or no
local ownership make up the essential of "Caspian oil". Altogether, it will soon be close to
3 million b/d (150 million tons/y), or as much as Iran or Venezuela or Iraq in its better
days, plus quite a bit of gas. All of it coming to the Mediterranean markets, partly though
Russia, partly through Turkey.
I'll be frank and say that I have a lot of admiration for the oil companies that have managed
to develop these fields and found ways to export their oil and make money despite huge
technical and bureaucratic obstacles, constant political pressure from all sides and a lot of
noise from everybody else. ACG was signed in 1994, Tengiz in 1993, Karachaganak in
1992, so it took a lot of patience to get them on stream, and to get them to make a little bit
of money in the meantime.
Of course, this region is not a panacea, it does not change much for the peak oil question,
but it buys us a few years of less Middle-east-dependent consumption and it provides for
fascinating business and geopolitics case studies...
@Flash Harry
The percieved reality - thatÂ´s where I see the problem too. Bush said something like "the
US life style is not negotiable" and that sentence does get a majority in the US. That
lifestyle depends on cheap oil, so cheap oil is "not negotiable".
The problem is that cheap oil is naturally not negotiable in the sense that there is now way
except massive, massive bloody fighting, to keep oil cheap. I am deeply concerned that the
US will go exactly that bloody way. Capitalisms rules, free oil markets, are not accepted if
it means $10.00/g at the pump.
"Lets nuke them" will be a general demand - and the nukes or equivelants will not go to the
producers of the commodity in question, but to foreign consumers of that commodity thatÂ´s any bigger country from China over India to Europe.
The US rules the seas and most the skys. The Europeans, ex some northern islands, should
focus on their land connections to the east for friends and partners to counter this threat.
Too much fiction? Maybe, but being paranoid doesnÂ´t mean you do NOT have possible
enemies.
I think that we may groupthink
ourselves to thinking shortage,
just as 5-6 years ago the
oil glut idea was supreme.
The Buttonwood crowd's afro in 1999
The why we had a haircut article: "The view that oil prices might continue to fall reflected a
more general view about the world economy, and hence about the likely demand for oil".
There you have it...crudely put, oil prices seem to be more aligned with current politics than
the underlying asset. Conceivably,we may well see another glut etc if GWB is forcibly
retired and tensions get ratcheted down. This is supported by the historical trend: US price
trend since 1869 This trend is explained by... who else?... Buttonwood's co-scribblers
Posted by: Ramlad | August 18, 2004 06:09 PM
come-on people. Man, how bad can life be? With some of the post above, chicken little has
nothing on you.
I must agree with Jerome again. All of this talk of peak oil is bullshit. Peak oil will be
reached around 2020 to 2030. Peak natural gas could be as far off as 2050.
As far as Caspian reserves go, there is some very interesting politics going on there. First,
in the early 1990s, oil companies gushed over how much possible oil was there. Then
unrest came to the area and the logistics of moving the oil from the area hit home. This
caused a downgrade on the reserves in the area. Now, the area has stabilized some, and a
new pipeline has opened letting oil and gas flow. Also, the Afgan pipeline looks to be
realistic now and that will run through Pakistan to a liquified natural gas facility which in
turn will head to the industrialized countries. Alan Greenspan said in testimony to congress
last winter that liquified natural gas is the future.
Now, to alternative energy sources. I have never seen so much negativity in my life. The
factoid is, wind power is waiting to be harnessed. Micro-hydro is so under-utilized its
sickening. These micro-hydro units are not some Hoover Dam that will disrupt fish habitat.
They take up little room in a steam, they can even go into a culvert, and provide cheap
energy.
On the solar front. Solar is much more efficient than twenty years ago. And, with time will
become more viable. In the southwest and south, solar technology is the answer. I believe
over time, with research, solar can fill many gaps in the energy grid. Worrying about how
much energy it takes tomake solar panels is usless at this point. In twenty years, it may e a
problem.
In the mean time, until we hit peak oil, and we are on the downward slide of fossil fuels, we
must move critically fast to a more technology based energy policy.
Also, lets not forget, there are other places beyond earth to find resources.
Pentagon plans to build US-friendly militia network aroubd the world to combat
terrorism What the fuck? Pentagon asks Congress for $500 million for building a network
of friendly militias around the world..Yeah, howd that go in the 80's with the mujahadean?
great thread. my favourite vexing issues, interesting new info, different perspectives. it's
great drinking w/you guys.
strangely, despite admitted tendencies towards doomsaying, I don't think our situation is
quite irretrievable yet -- not technically -- with regard to energy and transport. what I fear is
the tremendous inertia of an American (and other privileged nations) public that has,
frankly, become nothing but a big spoilt child cosseted and courted by corrupt politicians.
the Mob of Rome never had it so good.
Chasing the SUV Vote is the political reality here in the US today and, I fear, for some time
to come.
a responsible leadership would be advocating strongly for smaller cars and fewer cars,
more efficient heating and cooking, less waste in every area (the sheer waste in US
industry, Gummint, and private life is inconceivable, the scale of it, the outrageous
profligacy) -- we'd see Kerry and Bush competing to offer the finest national public transit
system (state owned vs privately chartered no doubt, but a flagship system in either case),
and the whole nine yards. can you imagine it though? I fear US politicians learnt from the
fate of Jimmy Carter that to tell the spoilt-brat public they have to economise or conserve is
the kiss of death to your political career. so there is not one pol at the higher levels who
dares to tell the people the truth: the era of super-cheap
just-pump-it-out-of-a-hole-in-the-ground energy is over, O, V, E, R, over, get used to it.
it's this tremendous lag between reality and the protected, fictionalised pseudo-reality fed to
the US public by the US corporate media that worries me. the whole country is imho in
danger of becoming a "Denial Nation," a sort of N Korea stuck in a time warp, expending
tremendous resources and violence to maintain an outdated fantasy.
so technically I'm with Jerome and jdp -- we've got a good shot at a soft landing.
sociopolitically I fear that the pathological denial, plus the weird brew of Patriotism and
Consumerism (buying an SUV shows you're Proud to be Amurkan!), is enough to shove
the US into a desperate holding pattern -- Real Men don't screw around with sissy efficient
technologies, they go out and kill brown people and steal their oil! -- for long enough to
make a soft landing impossible.
PS CluelessJoe -- I'm with you 110 percent. one of the silliest technological dead-ends of
all time, the private auto. basically it's a horse carriage minus the horse -- so incredibly
unimaginative, a real case of "paving the cow path" if you'll forgive a mixed animal
metaphor. steel/steel rail was a far more radical idea, and the velocipede and its
descendants are imho one of the most brilliant developments in human technohistory :-)
right up there with the aero/hydrofoil.
Posted by: DeAnander | August 18, 2004 11:56 PM
@DeAnander - fully with you. Price rises from the outside is probably the only way to get
the US to change their attitudes, by reaching for their wallets in ways which cannot be
avoided...
In a sense, the current geopolitical instability is good news as it pushes prices up. But the
physical reality of the US and China about to fight for a growing share of a limited supply
will make this year's events as minor skirmishes. whether we get (much) higher prices with
or without a "hot" war is an unresolved issue, and yet another reason to have someone like
Kerry rather than Bush in the WH in the near future...
@CP re Spanish Wind. My bank has participated to the financing of 2,300 MW of wind
power in Spain (and close to 5,000 MW world wide, with Italy, the US and the UK most
active for us). This means we have financed about 40% of Spain's current installed wind
capacity (also about 5000 MW) and we are plan to continue on doing so; we like the
regulatory framework they have put in place, which is enough to be an incentive, but not so
onerous that the electricity distributors complain. Plus, they've quickly built a strong
manufacturing base (wind, as an added benefit, creates the most jobs per kWh, and it's well
qualified jobs), so it's very positive for them.
As an addendum on the big 5 Caspian projects, I should have noted that they each require
some 10-20b$ of investment each. The production costs are fairly low (2-5$/b), which
makes the oil still cheap on the world markets (5-10$/b to bring it to the Mediterranean,
including pipeline costs) (I have more precise numbers but cannot give them here).
So you have the following very simplified numbers:
1b$ gets you 100,000b/d of oil (36mboe/y)
1b$ gets you 1mcf/d of gas (63mboe/y), which gets you 5000GWh (with 50ish% load
factor, and requiring another 300m$ investment in a power plant)
1b$ = 1000 MW of onshore wind power = 2500 GWh of electricity, with almost no
additional cost and no pollution. (or 500 MW - 2000 GWh offshore)
These are very simplified numbers, but show that wind is not far from being competitive on
its own, without subsidies AND without taking into account externalities such as pollution,
security of supply, import dependency, and job content...
A few years of subsidies/carbon tax/military tax on hydrocarbons will help make the switch
painless. Of course, wind cannot go beyond 20% of overall generation because of its
intermittent nature (it produces when there is wind, not when you need it), but this is a
worthy - and easy goal.
But the physical reality of the US and China about to fight for a growing share of a limited
supply will make this year's events as minor skirmishes.
Jerome:
My reading of China's current policy is that a "hot" war between them and the US is quite a
ways off. They seem to be waiting for what they see as the inevitable US financial collapse,
after which the remnibi will become the world's reserve currency (after a period of time in
competition with the Euro) and the US will no longer be able to fund aggressive wars.
Basically, they seem to be biding their time while building their military, economic and
techonological resources. My guess is that their first strike, when they think the time is
right, will be Taiwan. I also think Japan and S. Korea should be very worried about China.
The country - other than the ones on the neocon wish list - that I think the US may have
real trouble with sooner is Russia. Since Bush took office, the US has built military bases in
9 of the 15 former Soviet republics and is agitating with covert ops in others to either get
bases or get the Russians out of theirs. The US is trying to manuever the Russians out of
control or influence in the Caspian region. This is a direct threat to vital Russian interests
and they have responded by increasing defense spending by 40% next year and will likely
follow with additional increases in subsequent years. Russia can't respond militarily now,
but might in the future when the US economic and military position becomes weaker as
most non-neocon observers believe is inevitable. In any event, Putin is a nationalist and
knows that Russia must have a credible response to what he has to see as a threat to
Russian national interests. Any thoughts?
Posted by: lonesomeG | August 19, 2004 08:49 AM
@LG:
My order of current threats to US and proximity thereof would be N. Korea,Pakistan-India
blowing up nuclear, Russia, Iran, then China.
Really good thoughts there on Russia.
I'd like to hear Jerome's thoughts on this too.
Posted by: FlashHarry | August 19, 2004 09:10 AM
@FlashHarry
My order of current threats to US and proximity thereof
Why would these be threats to the US? DoesnÂ´t the US only perceives these countries as
threat. IsnÂ´t the only reason why the US may percieve these such threats an unjustifiable
overdependency on oil?
I agree that a US-China hot war is still a long way off, but I would argue that the reason is
Chinese weakness, not the other way round.
I don't know much about China, but I would imagine that they must be close to panic when
they look at their oil situation. They suddenly need a LOT of imported oil (and they maybe
need it more than other countries because it is their industry - and thus their growth, which
is energy intensive), and they have no easy way to get it except on the open market. They
do not yet have big majors active around the world (they are trying to build them now, but
end up paying a lot for their assets) and they see the US Navy sitting on their shipping
routes, with no similar military capacity on their side.
Their attempts to build pipelines to Russia and Kazakhstan have not yet been very
successful, and their attempts to buy in the assets (Kashagan in Kazakhstan, Slavneft in
Russia last year, and apparently Yuganskneftegaz, Yukos's main affiliate now) have not
been successful either.
9/11 bought them three years of quiet in the strategic rivalry with the US (I am sure they
could not believe their luck when this happened), which has given them time to grow and
develop, but the oil situation has caught up on them too soon for their taste, I'd say. And
they NEED growth to avoid massive domestic turmoil.
I personnally doubt very much that the renminbi will be a major currency, even in the long
term. You can have a dominant currency if you dominate trade patterns AND if people can
trust the currency - i.e. can trust the institutions of the country. Actually, the situation where
the biggest economy of the world is still seen as a mediocre political risk (because it is,
don't mistake size for trustworthiness) will be quite unprecedented and interesting to watch.
I'm still betting on the Euro, currency-wise.
Regarding Russia, I am still a pessimist. The country is a mess (it is hard to understand to
what extent unless you have actually seen industrial sites or the country side). At best, it is
the Netherlands in the middle of Zaire, i.e. one very wealthy market/city (with a few others)
in the middle of a country slowly falling back into the middle age (with no public services,
electricity only until the spare parts available locally exist because they will not be
replaced, and an aging dying population). Putin is seen as an improvement because order is
an improvement over chaos for the population, and he has been blessed with high oil prices.
These might stay (as discussed elsewhere in this thread...), but there is not much else in the
country that has a lot of potential or is not stifled by the bureaucracy.
As far as Russian strategy is concerned, their main "tool" is still their nukes, and more
generally their ability to be a nuisance to the US (selling weapons or nuclear plants to the
Axis of Evil). In the oil & gas sector, this has worked only in the gas sector, where they
have such a huge advantage with their existing infrastructure (and a very
"misunderestimated" company in Gazprom). In the oil sector, their policy of being a
nuisance and their less strong grip on infrastructural options has led Western developers to
avoid Russia for their new projects, focusing their upstream investment in Azerbaijan and
Kazakhstan, and their pipe routes on Turkey (BTC).
Russia will keep on being a nuisance, which allows them to partially live off / racketeer the
West and "exist", but this is not how you get to be a serious player.
The interaction between Russia and China in Siberia (lots of resources, almost no
population, but fiercely nationalist) will be an issue to watch - and this may be a "hot" war
at some point. I expect the West to take Russia's side, and I probably support that.
@B; I should have stated:"under current US governmemt's foreign policy approach". With
Iran, Russia and China oil or future needs for it figures very prominently.
North Korea invoves a threat of mutual miscalculation, not helped by the NeoClowns
blundering bellicosity.
Pakistan-India right now is a world nuclear problem.
Posted by: FH | August 19, 2004 10:20 AM
interesting alternatives:
SOLAR CHIMNEY:
http://www.solarmissiontechnologies.com/project-pilotplant.htm
http://www.enviromission.com.au/index1.htm
http://www.visionengineer.com/env/solar_flue.shtml
pictures:
pic,pic, pic,pic,
pic,pic,pic
SAHARA WIND:
http://www.saharawind.com/HVDCenergytransfer.htm
http://www.risoe.dk/konferencer/energyconf/presentations/giebel.pdf
SAHARA SOLAR:
http://www.waterstof.org/20030725EHECO5-54.pdf
http://www.f1.fhtw-berlin.de/studiengang/ut/publis/2004/SPS04.pdf
Posted by: MarcinGomulka | August 19, 2004 10:38 AM
@MG:
Thanks for the links @10:38AM above.
I liked the 1st Sahara wind link esp.
Don't know much about any of this .
Got one hell of a lot of reading to do.
Posted by: FH | August 19, 2004 11:23 AM
A broken record: Oil up again New record tops $48-barrel as violence flares in Iraq, adding
to supply concerns.
Evidence is mounting that China's fast-growing economy is spurring on oil demand,
intensifying competition for supply with established oil consumers like the United States
and Japan.
Reuters reports that China's refineries have processed 17.2 percent more crude so far
this year than in 2003, citing the State Statistical Bureau. Crude imports have soared
nearly 40 percent from last year.
And China plans to spend about $3.4 billion to lay 6,000 miles of oil pipelines over the next
three years, more than the total pipeline built in the past three decades.
Fellow emerging economy India said its biggest refiner, State-run Indian Oil Corp. Ltd.,
expects the nation's crude oil imports to rise by 11 percent between 2004 and 2005 with
demand rising by nearly 4 percent.
Demand in the world's largest oil consuming nation, the U.S., has jumped 3.4 percent this
year. Inventory building slowed as rising consumption absorbed extra imports.
Prices have peaked in all but one of the past 15 trading sessions and are up more than $10
a barrel, or 28 percent, since the end of June.
Morgan StanleyÂ´s Stephen Roach: Global: Oil-Shock Assessment
Some interesting numbers and this conclusion:
It may well be that globalization is an inherently energy-intensive endeavor -suggesting that world oil markets might enjoy little relief from ongoing
conservation efforts in the developed world.
All in all, it now appears that the world is being subjected to its fourth oil
shock in 30 years. Itâ€™s quite possible, of course, that the geopolitical
complications could unwind and oil prices retrace a significant portion of the
recent run-up. But thatâ€™s pure guesswork at this point. The best we can do
is take a snapshot of where we are and attempt to assess the macro
implications of the current pricing structure. Under the presumption that such
prices stick near current levels, the outlook is worrisome, to say the least. Just
as the previous three oil price disturbances led to recession, there is good
reason to fear a similar outcome in 2005. For an unbalanced world that has run
out of policy stimulus, there can be no mistaking the mounting perils of
another energy shock.
Putin: I'd say, try to imagine a mix of Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great.
What I wonder is if we could see an alignment between Russia and China; or, otherwise, if
an India-China agreement and loose alliance could happen - both needing cheap energy and
having basically no oil, not to mention troubled neighbors and fearing some Islamist threat.
Concerning Russia, as JÃ©rÃ´me said, the nukes are still one of the biggest asset. I've long
thought that in the medium-term a European-Russian deal may well be done: Europe brings
the money to support Russia, Russia brings the nukes to protect both.
Posted by: CluelessJoe | August 19, 2004 12:30 PM
Oil hits new high over $48 as Iraq violence flares
Clueless Joe,
the alliances and adversaries are currently as follows:
* India VS Pakistan (Kashmir)
* China SUPPORTS Pakistan (nuclear and conv.)
Apparently China would like to "contain" India.
* Russia SUPPORTS India (already cooperated to create a super-cruisemissile, 3 times as
fast as a Tomahawk)
* Russia SUPPORTS Iran (nuclear reactor)
* OTOH, US SUPPORTS Pakistan
* Russia SUPPORTS China (a limited naval-military and space cooperation)
I read an interview with a senior Chinese bureaucrat a while back (might have been Thom
Hartmann interviewing on one of his jaunts to China), and the guy said basically what was
said above, that the Chinese were going to sit tight, conserve their fossil resources, and wait
for the Americans to squander and bluster their way into decline. Then, said the bureaucrat,
"our day will dawn."
OTOH it is hard to reconcile this cautious, groundhog approach with the sizzling Chinese
market in new automobiles (possibly the second most depressing story in world news imho,
right after Sudan) and the associated squandering of fossil fuel and displacement of more
sustainable transport modes (already Chinese drivers are demanding that cyclists be banned
from chunks of Beijing, etc). I wonder if there are warring factions in the Chinese
bureaucracy as there are every place else, with one faction wanting to "heat up" the
economy as fast as possible by encouraging US-style consumerism, and the other faction
wanting to hold resources in reserve for a later bid at pre-eminence.
The Chinese are scary in the same way the US is, except by a larger factor: they, all by
themselves, have the ability to sabotage any global effort at carbon emissions reduction,
particulates reduction, toxics reduction, and so on. The smog generated by a car-crazed
China (a nation already living under a perpetual pall of smog from its coal-fired homes and
utilities) will be generously shared with the whole world.
It also concerns me that the current regime in China seems to have totally abandoned the
"small/local" approach to problem solving and has reverted to pyramid-building, i.e. the
Three Gorges project and similar. Centralisation, gigantism, and control: the three key
ingredients of total collapse should the central authority falter or misjudge. And they are
very vulnerable to global warming -- dependent on ice pack for summer river flow, many
of their rivers are already reduced to a trickle by damming and diverting for irrigation, and
desertification is a constant threat in the interior. Chinese glaciers are shrinking, and the
nearest source of glacial snow and ice is... the Himalyas. It would be nice if China and
India stayed friends; I'd not like to see them fighting over who gets to drink the snows of
the mountainous borderland.
I wish I knew more about China. It's a daunting country and a daunting subject...
Basra - Iraq's South Oil Co. headquarters torched
Brahmos Homepage Universal Supersonic Cruise Missile. An Indian-Russian Joint
Venture.
(Jane's, Dec 2001) The Indian Navy is formulating plans to introduce the BrahMos (PJ-10)
supersonic anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) into service as a counter to the 3M80 (SS-N-22
'Sunburn') supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM), supplied by Russia to China
aboard two Sovremenny-class destroyers.
As you can see Russia sells old naval tech to China and develops better tech together with
India. There is no China-India agreement. It's competition.
China will slow down its economic growth. They know it is not sustainable this way and
they do think longterm.
Zhou Enlai, asked about the impact of the French Revolution of 1789 he replied "It is too
soon to say."
@JÃ©rÃ´me
At what price is it feasable to convert coal to oil? China has plenty of coal and in WW II
Germany did this extensivly.
I like that quote from Zhou. Goes well with Gandhi's quip about Western Civilisation :-)
I have been wondering about that coal/oil path for China, myself. I know nothing about the
process and have a vague feeling that it may not be "economic" -- the Nazi state only did
this because they were blockaded, and commonsense economics played no part in the
process. It was a "war economy" (the kind of irrational, command-driven structure BushCo
wants to make permanent) and industry had access to slave labour. The costs may have
been very high indeed and they would still have been accepted under the circs at the time...
[makes a note to do some research on the coal-oil process]
Very interesting discussion here. As always, Jerome's insights on oil and energy policy are
invaluable.
When it comes to soft landings, though, I remain firmly in the gloom-and-doom crowd's
column. This is because of what I call "The Alligator Effect" (derived from the old
Southern proverb: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that your
original objective was to drain the swamp").
If the only problem we faced as a civilization was increasing demand for this finite
resource, then I'd be a lot more optimistic about technical fixes. What makes me a
pessimist, though, is that there's a hell of a lot of other resource problems (alligators, if you
will) that are slithering around in the planetary swamp.
These are global problems, which can only be resolved on a global scale. (Ex: It doesn't
matter how energy-efficient/renewable Europe gets, if the Chinese start driving SUVs.)
This will require unprecedented levels of cooperation between nations.
How this cooperation can occur, between nations armed to the teeth with the most
destructive weapons in all of human history, each of them demanding a bigger share of a
smaller pie, is something that I have yet to hear anyone address convincingly.
If you look back in history, most civilizations crash not because of a single cause, but a
constellation of dilemmas. Their lucky streak comes to an end and they end up with
snake-eyes on just about every throw of the dice.
@Prof Fate
Played golf with my 16 year old son today. Watching him play and enjoy himself I just
wondered WTF the world will be like when he's my age in 30 years time.
@ DeAnander
there was na excellent interview with Jean-Luc Domenach, the french sinologe and
historian in the polish press. my quick translation:
What is China's policy on international arena?
- They are looking forward to the showdown with the USA. They know, that
they will have to wait 40 years for that moment, when China becomes an
economic superpower. I have no doubt about that and every discussion with
the people in power confirms my belief. The Chinese thinking is dominated by
dialectics in line with the logic, ally with whom against whom. This kind of
thinking led the Soviet Union to the Molotow-Ribbentrop Pact [ August 1939,
a secret pact with the 3rd Reich; determined spheres of influence ].
Where do these emotions come from?
- China wants a historic revenge with The West for past humiliations, for
opium wars, for everything, that we forgot about, but they did not.
Is this part of the American Right Wing, which tells us to fear China, right ?
- Yes and no. In 30-40 years, when China grows in power, it will have new
rulers- satisfied, young, luxus fancing, softened by prosperity. They will be the
offspring of today's corrupt elite. Money has different consequences- both
civilisation, but also moral decay. Their parents are buying flats on Champs
Elysees and are setting up accounts in Swiss banks. The future generation will
not want war.
All of the talk of China is way off base. They spend way to much money taking care of
their population and cannot afford the miltary might to match the US. Even if the US does
callapse, we will still be used as the wotlds policeman. We spend more on defense than the
next fifeteen countries combined and have plenty of new weapons systems in the pipeline.
No-one is going to challenge the US for a long time.
Russias problem the the continuous population decline that is happening. Russia along with
Eurpoe and Japan will see large population losses between now and 2050. This will shift
the balance in the Caspian area and in the far east. Russia, unless they start masive in
migration will see economic growth erode. Japan will fall to 100 million people.
Indonesia, China and India will see a continuous growth in the need for goods and services
and also provide cheap labor for years to come. The US will continue to grow because of in
migration to a population of around 400 million or more. Balances wil shift and as China,
India, and Indonesia become more industrialized the birth rate will go down, but it will be a
100 year process.
So, you throw this picture into the mix, and I don't see anyone challenging US supremacy
for a while. China and India will be using to many resources to build larger militaries.
Rogue nations will be a challenge along with Pakistans population growth and radical
religous base.
We need to think about the new paradigm that is emerging. Also, Europe as a whole will
look different because of the EU but the current dominant countries like Germany,
England, Spain Italy and others will no population groxth. France will see some growth.
There, now throw that into the mix of resource scarcity worries.
@jdp
we will still be used as the wotlds policeman. - who asks for this?
We spend more on defense than the next fifeteen countries combined - who pays for this?
Germany, total population:
1949 68.108,0
1960 72.973,3
1970 78.069,5
1980 78.397,4
1985 77.675,7
1989 79.145,8
1990 79.753,2
1991 80.274,6
1992 80.974,6
1993 81.338,1
1994 81.538,6
1995 81.817,5
1996 82.000,0 (est.)
Slow, steady growth and increasable at will.
we will still be used as the wotlds policeman?
Who uses them?
prof fate:
How this cooperation can occur, between nations armed to the teeth with the most
destructive weapons in all of human history, each of them demanding a bigger share of a
smaller pie, is something that I have yet to hear anyone address convincingly.
That's precisely the piece of software iterating in Cheney's mind.
That's why our 70,000 pawns are going to be repositioned.
Cheney understands that geopolitcal power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
Cheney knows that if it is going to come down to us or them--then dammit--it is going to be
us...us...Us...US...USA...USA...USA.
He has a neo-Malthusian mind: Oil supply increases arithmetically and demand
exponentially.
Is he correct?
Yes and No.
------First the NO:
No because the universe is nothing but energy.
In fact, there is enough energy in one bucket of Cheney's night soil to run all the commode
fans in all countries for all time.
Which is to say--there is energy aplenty and so a soft landing is possible but only if much
hard thinking is done.
Hard thinking on fusion, on helium, on fission, on wind, on solar, on
geothermal...conversation...etc....etc...
-------Now for the Yes:
Cheney is right because Cheney is in power. Not only in this country but in others as well.
The world's governments are literally littered with Cheneys. Cheneys are a dime a dirty
dozen. In politics and international relations Cheneyism is de rigeur: Do unto others before
they do unto you.
In other words--> see the world through the eyes of Machiavelli and Malthus and sure
enough the world is that way.
-----So Yes or No?
What's it gonna be World?
Hard thinking or Hard Hard Hard Times?
My prediction: If Cheney is defeated in November the world has a chance to lean again
towards hard thinking. If we can just tip the thinking that way, inertia will set in, and the
Cheneys in this country will never again see another day in power.
Maybe that's pollyanna.
And maybe this is gloom:
But if not a victory for hard thinking this November...forget it...the civilization game is
over and the Cheneys of the world will have their nasty vision of our future.
@koreyel
exactly. Sunflowers, Sunflowers, Sunflowers. Ask Brazil.
Indicators suggest that US economic recovery is losing steam
thanks to all for the many interesting insights...
Strange how oil and power seem inextricably interlinked...
- I need to check on the coal-oil conversion, but I would be really surprised if it was not
profitable with oil consistently around 50$
***Public Service Note****
Remember that oil companies - and banks! - are still making their financial plans with
15-20$/b price scenarios. Bankers (and you know I am one) are always worrying about the
last crisis happening again, so they never see the next one coming... Of course, a good
banker is not one who anticipates that next crisis (because that would cost his bank a lot of
profitability before it happens), but one that loses slightly less money than the other bankers
when the crisi hits. Today, after the 1999 episode in oil, and the 2001-02 electricity crisis,
banks are still worried about low energy prices, believe it or not.
**** End announcement ***
Back to "country studies"
- do not overestimate China. Their political system is inherently unstable. They can play
catch up but they cannot lead. Their institutions are not - and rightly so - trusted by the rest
of the world, whom they despise. Their male-female inbalance (also true of India?) will be
a major problem soon.
- do not underestimate Europe. We're still there. (I am not as optimistic as Bernhard about
Germany's population, but remember one thing about Germany in the past 15 years: they
have been making stupendously massive transfers to Eastern Germany (something like 1
trillion $). It's actually amazing that their growth has not been lower; it's like running the
marathon with your kid on your back - and they are still very much in the race).
- do not expect Russia to be anything but a nuisance to everybody. They are relevant only
as the owner (and potential or actual proliferator) of nuclear stuff, as the natural gas
superpower (but in a balanced co-dependency relationship with Europe because of the
infrastructure requirements) and a potential non-ME source of oil (valuable only if reliable,
which they have trouble understanding ad putting into practice).
- Arab countries. I am more and more convinced that we need to let the islamists grab
power in as many countries as possible. Once in power, they will show they are no better
than all the dictators they replace, and islamism will finally lose its attraction to the
population as a political force, as Iran palpably demonstrates. And once in power, they
have something to lose (countries, power, status, etc...) and will thus behave more
rationally (again, see Iran).
Or we could develop alternatives to oil and let them fall back to irrelevance like Africa...
Jerome, a mate of mine has a diesel Subaru SUV. He runs the thing on vegetable oil that is
far cheaper than diesel.
Taxes aside...............?
@CP:
Appears the Iraqi insurgency is using them pretty well right now.
@KOREYEL:
I'm on TV tonight at 800 PM EST in the States, on AMC, if you've got cable.
Posted by: Snake Plissken | August 19, 2004 06:02 PM
CP - I have seen many contradictory statements about "biofuels" so I cannot answer with
any confidence. All I can tell you is that my bank is very wary of financing biofuels as it
still depends a lot on tax/regulatory support (and that's agro politics - very unreliable) and
reliability of supply is a real issue for us. So count me skeptical, but willing to be informed
otherwise.
@JEROME:
At what price per barrel do you think coal gassification is viable economically?
Jerome, tax income. Don't tax Biofuels!
Simple really.
@CP
Bio fuel, when grown to be just fuel requires more (oil-)energy than it produces. If poltics
talk about the "advantages" of biofuel, itÂ´s usually pure subsidising of agriculture.
Bio fuel, when processed from garbage or through coupled production with other valid
goods can be a valid energy source. An uncle of mine has a lot of sustainable grown forests
and heats his house with the boughs that are not marketable. He even beats modern gas
heating equipment in emissions.
Another guy I know is using used grease from fryers to run his car. But this is no way for
bigger economies or developing countries.
In general we should look for many different, diversified sources of energy, not for the next
"solving all problems" technology, that we did find with nuclear energy some decades ago.
Jerome, and others:
Thanks for your perspective(s) and a great thread. I left for the day after posting and just
returned to see what happened since then. Quite interesting. While there is no consensus,
there is still more analysis regarding the consequences of peak oil on global rivalries and
power shifts in this thread than I've seen in the US mainstream media all year. Again,
thanks all.
Posted by: lonesomeG | August 19, 2004 10:26 PM
Iraqi oil exports stay at 1 million bpd for 11th day
Posted by: Nemo | August 20, 2004 02:54 AM
This nice site for the general public offers an illustrated history of wind power. Plenty of
technical and economical details.
Link
I like this czech site. Here is a basic primer on Biomass.
Link
Posted by: Blackie | August 20, 2004 11:55 AM
Attackers blow up oil pipeline in Southern Iraq
Reaping the whirlwind?
Toyotarization
Climate change may provide more wind than you actually want - the damage wrought by
4x4s has a considerable, deadly and far-reaching impact.
Another oil pipeline bombed in Iraq
NYT on investing in alternative energy companies: Ready to Bet on Alternative Energy?
Well, Think Again
b - thanks. The article itself is a lot more positive than its title...
Posted by: Jerome | August 22, 2004 04:45 AM
@JÃ©rÃ´me
Like usual, the headline editor didnÂ´t bother to read the article, but did use the headline as
his personal OpEd.
A ghastly feeling on future oil prices
Another question for JÃ©rÃ´me
As we all know the price of a barrel of oil has gone up dramatically in the past months. My
question is how much oil that is bought and sold every day is sold at the price we hear on
TV. I know that different oils are sold at different prices and this is based on the quality of
the oil but are there no long standing contracts to buy at fixed prices?
I ask because any increase in the price of crude is almost immediately matched by an
increase at the pumps. I have always thought there was something smelly about that but am
really interested to know in percentages how much oil is traded at $46 per barrel or
whatever it costs today.
thanks in advance
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« Unintended Consequences | Main | In Memoriam August 19, 2003 »
Moon of Alabama: Oily Thread II
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Dow 6,000 | Main | NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004 »
August 25, 2004
Oily Thread II
For reference you may want to read Oily Thread I.
Could we also put a bit of water into this one? Water is often essential to get oil out of the
ground. It is as scarce as oil and is the cause of many conflicts. Like the oil industry, the
water industry is an interesting field for investments.
Comments
Copy of the most recent comment from Oily Thread I:
Another question for JÃ©rÃ´me
As we all know the price of a barrel of oil has gone up dramatically in the past months. My
question is how much oil that is bought and sold every day is sold at the price we hear on
TV. I know that different oils are sold at different prices and this is based on the quality of
the oil but are there no long standing contracts to buy at fixed prices?
I ask because any increase in the price of crude is almost immediately matched by an
increase at the pumps. I have always thought there was something smelly about that but am
really interested to know in percentages how much oil is traded at $46 per barrel or
whatever it costs today.
thanks in advance
Mark Thatcher arrested at Cape Town home in connection with coup plot
Thatcher has now been charged in connection with a coup attempt against oil rich
Equatorial Guinea. It seems that the scramble for control of resources is being waged both
overtly (e.g. Iraq) and covertly.
Profile - Mark Thatcher
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/oily_thread_ii.html (1 von 10) [16.11.2004 18:45:19]
@Dan - AFAIK, most of the oil is traded at the quoted price. Even long term contracts are
usually sold using the current price reference.
But it is a forward price - i.e. it is the price for next months deliveries, which in turn are
usually paid with a 30 days delay.
If you want to cover your exposure, you can buy longer term forward deliveries (i.e. buy
next year's oil at a price set today). This is done through what are effectively financial
instruments, which still use the immediate price as their basic reference point.
The interesting thing is that the forward curve has increased by almost as much as the
immediate delivery prices, i.e. the market is pricing in that prices will not go down in the
near future (one year at least).
@Nemo. Equatorial Guinea is the newest oil province. Half way between Nigeria and
Angola, similar geology, etc... But actually it is a very big natural gas play and not just oil.
Marathon Oil is building a LNG plant there.
@Bernhard - I'll feed the water topic as well. Some data from the Water Atlas that ties in
with topics raised by DeAnander elsewhere:
Minimum quantity of water required to produce 1kg of food:
potatoes: 500litres (l)
wheat: 900l
sorghum: 1,100l
soybeans: 1,650l
rice:1,900l
poultry:3,500l
beef: 15,000l
Countries which are drawing more from the ground that is replenished annually:
USA
Algeria
Mauritania
Libya
Egypt
Israel
Saudi Arabia
UAE
Pakistan
India
China
thanks JÃ©rÃ´me for the lesson on oil markets.
Coming from a semi arid part of the US I know a little bit about dropping water tables. In
many places the water table is going down at the rate of one foot per year. So far no one
seems to be alarmed, they merely dig deeper wells.
Here in Italy, bottled water costs around 3 euro for a 750 cc bottle at most restaurants. I
personally find that obscene and drink beer instead. I point out to friends that they complain
about spending 1 euro or so for a liter of gasoline but never bat an eye for the water. Years
ago when the big food companies were buying little companies that sold water I thought to
myself, how can anybody make money selling something that falls out of the sky for free?
Silly me!
AlJazeera: First signs of a global decline in oil?
New statistics are claiming that oil production in 18 producer countries has
passed its peak and is declining faster than previously thought: At about 1.14
million barrels a day.
...
Another problem analysts are facing is that it appears countries can carry on
expanding production until suddenly the decline sets in, never to be reversed.
Depletion could eventually make
current high prices seem cheap
"The UK expanded production each year until 1999," Skrebowski continues.
"Since then it has gone down every year by 5%, then 6% then 8% and this
year, 2004, it looks set to be higher. This is even with the best technologies
and techniques available."
...
"If, however, it is going down in 'stable' country X and up in 'unstable' country
Y, then you get the geo-political dimension. What happens if declines in safe
countries can only be offset by increases from those less secure?" Skrebowski
asks.
Because that is exactly what may be happening. For example Petrologistics, an
oil industry firm which tracks tanker shipments, reported that Saudi Arabian
output actually fell by 400,000 bpd last month.
...
Without gigantic and costly investment, that would itself inflate prices,
squeezing more oil out of the ground may prove hard. Petroleum Review's
rigorous statistical analysis may just be the prologue to a bigger, more
unsettling story.
"The phenomenon of multiple counties all declining is a new one for
everybody. Up to 1990 only the USA and Romania had started declining. So,
in the longer term, matching demand to the new capacity of producer countries
may prove to be a very tough call, a very tough call indeed," predicted
Skrebowski.
And that may prove to be an understatement.
b - I am still skeptical about claims that we cannot increase production in the medium term.
Remember that oil prices have been pretty low in the past 18 years and that CFOs of oil
companies, shareholders and outside financiers expect investments to make money at 15$/b
(and to break-even at 10$/b) for an investment to be given the green light. Even with
today's prices, that mindset has not changed yet - people are still expecting investments to
make it with 20$/b oil or less. (there was an article about this in yesterday's FT but I cannot
find the link). Wyhen this mindset changes (i.e. when these people are convinced that oil
will stay above 30$/b for a bit of time, then you will suddenly see a new burst of
investment.
In the short term, expect more problems: fewer wells dug last year in OPEC countries, Oil
investment reduced despite record prices.
Some of the world's biggest oil-producing countries have reduced their
investment in new capacity despite record oil prices. The Organisation of
Petroleum Exporting Countries this week revealed its members drilled 6.5 per
cent fewer wells in 2003, suggesting the global supply crunch and high oil
prices could last longer than expected, analysts said. The numbers appear to
contradict statements by Opec members that they are actively building extra
capacity.
"Oil demand has been booming since quarter one 2003, offering Opec - along
with rising oil prices - a clear enough signal of tightening market conditions,
which the organisation seems to disregard," the Centre for Global Energy
Studies (CGES), a London-based consulting firm, said recently.
"Opec has tried to get prices to stay high and now with nearly two years of
very strong demand for oil we are really capacity constrained," said Leo
Drollas, CGES deputy executive director and chief economist.
Opec's latest annual statistical report, published this week, shows that the
number of wells completed in 2003 fell by more than 10 per cent in Kuwait,
Venezuela, Qatar, Nigeria and Iran.
Opec members rarely give out complete data on the amount of money they
invest in their oil industry, viewing it as a national strategic secret. Information
on the number of oil wells completed per year is one of the best rough guides
to future oil production as well as to overall investment trends.
Part of the explanation, in particular for Nigeria and Qatar, lies in the fact that
companies are drilling fewer but more sophisticated wells. In Iran, Kuwait and
Venezuela, investment has been stifled by political disagreements and leaders'
eagerness to spend the additional petrodollars on other investments or the
enrichment of a powerful minority. But as big consumers such as the US
become more desperate for oil, the pressure is growing for countries such as
Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to open their doors to international oil companies.
Mohammad Hadi Nejad Hosseinian, Iran's deputy oil minister, blamed Opec's
lack of investment on past weak oil prices. "Most Opec countries have been
unable to supply extra oil as a result of inadequate investment during the
period when oil prices were weak," he said. "Iran expects to rely heavily on
foreign investments to implement its ambitious plans [to increase oil
production by nearly 2m b/d]."
Opec's capacity has remained at about 31.5m b/d since autumn 2000, though
demand increased by 6m b/d and prices recovered from the Asian crisis of the
late 1990s during that time, the CGES said. During that time almost
three-quarters of the increased capacity needed to satisfy the extra demand
came from outside Opec.
But ageing fields, a difficult investment climate in Russia and a dearth of
discoveries in other parts of the world mean that consumers will not be able to
rely on countries outside Opec for additional oil.
Meanwhile, US demand, which is expected to grow 4 per cent in the next four
years, and that of China, forecast to increase 30 per cent, mean the world could
be in for a longer period of high oil prices than expected, analysts said.
The International Energy Agency, the Paris-based industry watchdog, expects
Opec capacity, excluding Iraq and Venezuela, to grow 2.1m b/d in 2005-2007.
But work to achieve this does not appear to have begun.
It can take two years for countries to act on higher oil prices, but this time
countries hurt by past boom and bust cycles appear to be taking longer.
Opec's hesitancy means it has squandered its spare capacity, the trump
card that allows it to play the role of the world's central bank of oil. It has
also increased the likelihood that prices will fall only after they have
climbed enough to stifle economic growth and, therefore, demand.
Energy and environmental policies
Bush and science â€“ members of the scientific community speak out
Saboteurs attack multiple Iraqi pipelines
Aftermath of an attack on an oil pipeline in al-Barjisiya, southwest of Basra, August 26th
Asphalt bridge melts after attack on oil pipeline, in al-Barjisiya, August 26th
al-Barjisiya, August 26th
US vs Russia - Pipeline wars
Have you seen that?:The Thirty-Year Itch
only 887 hits in Google for Miles Ignotus seems to be a relatively obscure topic
Seizing Arab Oil -- How the U.S. can break the oil cartel's stranglehold on the world
Kissinger's Plan
@Posted by: | August 26, 2004 11:27 AM
Great Link www.punjabilok.com/iraq_war/thirty_year.htm - 28k
I love the last sentence regarding the oil companies opinion of the war now.
"They think it has 'fiasco' written all over it."
An underestimated crises coming?
Science Magazine: Asia Farmers Sucking Continent Dry
Asian farmers drilling millions of pump-operated wells in an ever-deeper
search for water are threatening to suck the continent's underground reserves
dry, a science magazine warned on Wednesday.
"This little-heralded crisis is repeating itself across Asia and could cause
widespread famine in the decades to come," London-based New Scientist said
in a report on scientists' findings at a recent water conference in Sweden.
The worst affected country is India.
There, small farmers have abandoned traditional shallow wells where bullocks
draw water in leather buckets to drill 21 million tube wells hundreds of meters
(yards) below the surface using technology adapted from the oil industry, the
magazine said.
Another million wells a year are coming into operation in India to irrigate rice,
sugar cane and alfalfa round-the-clock.
...
..there was no control over the expansion of pumps and wells.
"When the balloon bursts, untold anarchy will be the lot of rural India," he said
at the annual Stockholm Water Symposium.
...
In China's breadbasket, the northern plain, 30 cubic kilometers more water is
pumped to the surface each year than is replaced by rain, it said. Officials have
said water shortages will soon make China dependent on grain imports.
The following numbers were Posted by: JÃ©rÃ´me | August 25, 2004 04:00 PM and I
would like to further evaluate on them, as there is much more to these numbers.
Minimum quantity of water required to produce 1kg of food:
potatoes: 500litres (l)
wheat: 900l
sorghum: 1,100l
soybeans: 1,650l
rice:1,900l
poultry:3,500l
beef: 15,000l
Now consider that an average American or Canadian meat-eater (I do not have numbers for
Europeans) consumes 11 beef steers, 1 calf, 3 lambs, 23 hogs, 45 turkeys 826 fish per
year!!! Now multiply them with the water being needed to produce them.
I would like to add a few excerpts from Gabriel Cousins book â€˜Conscious Eatingâ€™.
Livestock use approx. 50% of all the water in the US. Livestock produce 20 times the
excrement as the human population of the US. This increases the nitrate/nitrite water
pollution. Extensive water use for livestock is pushing us closer to a clean water shortage.
It requires 60-100 times more water to produce a pound of beef than a pound of weath.
Livestock require excessive water usage because the land needed to grow grain for
livestock takes up about 80% of the grain produced, and because water is needed for the
animals.
When one considers the water needed for this extra grain and for the care of the livestock,
a flesh-food diet creates a need for 4500 gallons per day per meat-eater as compared to
300 gallons per day for a vegan. A vegan saves approx. 1â€™500â€™000 gallons per year
as compared to the a flesh-eater.
I think it is important to realize that we can influence water consumption not only by the
amount of showers we take, or by how often we wash our car. We actually can affect it
everyday by how we eat. Now I do not say everyone should become a vegetarian, but
maybe by just reducing the amount of meat eaten by half, would safe a lot of water. In
addition, it would free grains to feed the hungry people. I donâ€™t think we need to
produce more food; we just have to use it more wisely. Then there is the additional benefit
of vegetarians or people who eat little meat of being healthier, as more and more studies
show. However, I donâ€™t want to go into this aspect here, as the post is already getting
somewhat long.
I would like to add an other excerpt of the book, and while reading it, please keep the
numbers of water consumption in mind that JÃ©rÃ´me posted:
The â€˜Vegetarian Timesâ€™ estimates that rain forest destruction causes the extinction of
1000 species per year. For each fast-food, quarter-pound hamburger, 55 square feet of
rain forest are destroyed. One hundred species become extinct for every 2 billion fast-food
burgers sold.
The ratio of food productivity per acre of land from livestock versus vegetarian food
reveals tremendous disparity from the same amount of natural resources. For instance, one
acre of land yields 20â€™000 pounds of potatoes versus 165 pounds of beef. An acre of
grain gives five times more protein than beef.
US livestock regularly eat enough grain and soy to feed the US population five times over.
More than 80% of the grain grown in the US is to feed livestock. The total world livestock
regularly eat about twice the calories as the human world population receives.
Now, to return to the oily thread, here the last excerpt:
A vegetarian diet also helps to conserve the worldâ€™s fuel energy and total raw material
resources. 78 calories of fossil fuel are required for each calorie of protein from
feedlot-produced beef. Grains and beans require approx. 0.6 to 3.9 calories of fossil fuel to
produce each calorie of vegetarian food.
I do not know if the calorie numbers include the energy and oil needed to transport the
grains from, for example Thailand to the US or Europe. All this longdistance transportation
is a crazy idea anyway.
Well, I could go on and on. Maybe this topic would be worth a thread of its own. But then I
do think it is connected to our energy consumption and former environmental posts and
discussions.
I do not say, as I mentioned before, that everyone should become a vegetarian, but the
simple thing as choosing more consciously what we eat, might affect our water and oil
resources. And as I mentioned in other posts before. Every drop counts, the ocean is made
of little drops - no drops, no ocean.
Posted by: Fran | August 26, 2004 03:35 PM
thanks Fran - well said
On oil and the strategy Putin may play with Yukos.
Houston, we have a Yukos problem from Asia Times.
My take Yukos and with it much of the Russian oil rent was in the process of being sold
out to the US. Putin just cannot allow this - his people would hang him if he would - fine
with me, they have suffered much and need the money.
For a stragic energy partnership (i.e. where to build the next pipeline) Putin has to decide
his countries future. China is to dangerous, as it is looking to interested at Siberia, the US is
a nono after the recent Bush years - you can trust them. Japan may be a good choice but
hard to predict the devlopments there. Europe is not united enough to make a clear picture
of it. Tough call for Putin.
Fran
thanks for reacting to my numbers. Did you have a chance to read this article: The Oil we
Eat referenced in an earlier thread (maybe at the Annex) by DeAnander? It was also quite
critical of our reliance on the main cereals (wheat, rice). I'd need to check if the numbers
are coherent between the two (in terms of oil per calorie), which i have not done yet.
@b - re Yukos. There is no grand strategy. It is only gangsters stealing from other
gangsters, nothing much. Yukos could have become the controlling shareholder of
ChevronTexaco - now that would have given Putin, indirectly, real power on the US oil
scene...
JÃ©rÃ´me, thank you for the link. I haven't seen this article before and it is worth reading.
from 'The Oil we Eat' - All well and good, except that per capita protein production in the
United States is about double what an average adult needs per day. Excess cannot be
stored as protein in the human body but is simply converted to fat.
I do not quite agree with that. Not all the proteins are turned into fat. There are also
'Abbauprodukte', according to my dictionary in English breakdown products. These are
also stored in our joints and muscles, and form the basis for gout, arthritis, rheumatisme,
they can clogg our arteries, hardening the excess cholesterol and fat in the heart and the
brain and so on, basically what in German is called 'Wohlstandskrankheiten?, literally
translated meaning affluency-diseases.
So in a sloppy way, one could also say, reducing our energy consumption would also
reduce our health inscurance fees. But I guess these insurance companies wouldn't be to
happy about that.
As I understand it, many communities have sold their water utilities to large water
companies. Some have even bought the water back, or sued to get it back.
In dreams, water is said to represent the soul, the spiritual. So if some politicians can suck
the water out of a community, then we need to know the answer to an old question vampires are real.
If this is happening where you live, tell the truth about vampires.
Posted by: Citizen | September 2, 2004 11:23 PM
@Citizen:
Not happening, where I'm at fortunately. Apparently happening other places.
Posted by: Dr. Van Helsing | September 2, 2004 11:37 PM
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« Dow 6,000 | Main | NEWS SERVICE ... DECEMBER 8, 2004 »
Moon of Alabama: Dow 6,000
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Open Off Topics Thread | Main | Oily Thread II »
August 24, 2004
Dow 6,000
"The funding of America is an accident waiting to happen."
Economist Stefen Roach warns of a near term crash of US assets.
The current account and trade deficit of the US are funded through foreign private savers
and Asian central banks who buy US assets. There is an imbalance, when foreign savers
increasingly pay for US consumption and an adjustment is needed.
â€œAll the classic symptoms of a US current-account adjustment are now
evident. At the same time, the stewards of globalization -- the IMF, the BIS,
the OECD, and even the Federal Reserve -- are now all on the same page in
sounding the alarm.
Politics could correct a big part of the imbalances, but tax increases and spending
reductions are unpopular with the elecotrate, so this will not happen. The only way Roach
sees the correction to be done is by a drop in US asset values, stocks, bonds and the
balloned housing market.
When will this happen?
Roach sees signs that hint to the next few months. Each month an additional 86 billion
dollars of foreign money gets invested in US assets. The ÂófficialÂ´ share of this money
inflow - the buying of US bonds by foreign central banks - has increased from its long term
share of 14% to 36%. The share of private foreign buyers of US assets is decreasing.
Private foreign investors seam to find better value elsewhere and for now the central banks
of Japan and China step in and buy US$ assets do keep their currency from rising and their
exports and job numbers from falling.
The last time such an increase of official buying of US assets happened was 1987. Then the
"venting" of the imbalances was done between October 13 and October 20, 1987 when the
Dow Jones dropped by one third from 2,500 to 1,600. The equivalent now is a drop in the
Dow Jones from 10,100 today to 6,400 next Tuesday. As the imbalances are bigger now
than 1987, the drop may be well beyond this. Such a â€œventingâ€• could escalate:
Jens O. Parsson:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/dow_6000.html (1 von 9) [16.11.2004 18:45:23]
Dying of Money: Lessons of the Great German & American Inflations
Until 1922 and the very brink of collapse, Germans and especially foreign
investors were absorbing marks in huge quantities. Only the international
reputation of the Reichsmark, the faith that an economic giant like Germany
could not fail, made this possible. The storage factor caused by the investors
willingness to save marks kept the marks from being dumped immediately into
the markets, and thereby for a long while held prices in check. The precise
moment when the inflation turned sharply upward, toward its vertical climb,
was undoubtedly timed by no event, but by the dawning psychological
awareness of the German and foreign investor that Germany was not going to
back its money. With that, the rush to get out of the mark was on. Like a damn
bursting, the seas of marks flooded into the markets and drove prices beyond
all bounds. The German government strove mightily to outflood the sea. The
sea of marks which had been stored up by Germans and especially by trusting
foreigners flooded forth and fought to buy into other investments, foreign
currencies, tangible goods, almost anything but marks.
Comments
The world economy is so closely tied to the US economy that the ripples of a dollar
meltdown will be felt all over the planet. The dow and the dollar will take much of the
world with them. Let's hope the US-budget will remain able to look after, say, the
intercontinental missiles in the midwest and the costly carriers and submarines.
One question would be how long the baisse will last - probably much longer than in 1987,
don't you think? Another question would be which asset will lose the least of its value in
relation to all others. AFAIK, there are the cash-and the gold-disciples. (And the precious
metals-disciples, natural resources-disciples...) I would think that holding some cash in
euros and Swiss Franken would not be a bad idea. But why should this be the first thread at
the moon from which I do not learn?
More minefields for Kerry?
Some context to a significant sideeffect of the Dow 6,000 scenario is given in The Bear's
Lair: Houses of cards
It explains in an entertaining way why and how Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac will go bust in
an even benign recession with higher interest rates and why the US taxpayer will have to
bail out the debt they back - some 4 trillion US$. S&L crises on speed.
In response to a question about soaring house prices, Greenspan conceded that
in some areas prices have outstripped growth in incomes and rents. "This
observation raises thew possibility that real estate prices, at least in some
markets, could be out of alignment with the fundamentals."
Greenspan: Global Recovery Strengthening
If Greenspin says "could be" you can bet they are far out of alignement.
b - thanks for focusing on the right issues.
See The oil pressure is rising at the Fed for where the end begins: interest rates go up (as
they should) because of oil-fuelled inflation fears. This leads to a consumption crash
(creditcards being maxed out already) and real estate crash (prices go down because
mortgages are suddenly more expensive) in the US which feed each other. The dollar starts
to slide as foreign investors "see the writing on the wall" and only slow down their
purchases of US assets. The Dow follows.
In 2000, I did a calculation that led me to say that the Dow should fall to 3700 (based on
previous crises, 1929 and 90s Japan). Nasdaq duly collapsed, but the Dow has been more
resilient. Is it only a question of time?
Again, I will voice my optimism that Europe will weather the coming storm quite well, as it
has no external or internal imbalance to speak of.
Wishful thinking?
China will suffer, but not enough to reduce the upwards pressure on world commodity
prices (again, see the FT: China fears reliance on food imports: "The leadership is very
concerned about food security. They were all young men during the famine of the late
1950s and 1960s. It is not only a strategic issue of dependence on foreign markets for them,
it is also a very personal issue of food self-sufficiency," said one academic who advises the
government on food security issues.
The latest official figures show an unprecedented deficit in agricultural trade in the first six
months of the year.
Total imports of farm produce in the first half of the year rose 62.5 per cent to $14.35bn.
Exports totalled $10.62bn, an 11 per cent increase on the same period a year ago.
The biggest changes were seen in grain imports as strategic stocks fell because of declining
annual harvests every year since 1998. In the first half, China imported 4.1m tonnes of
grain, or 1.8 times as much as in the same period a year ago.
The level of China's national grain reserves is a state secret, but several academics said
although the harvest this year is expected to exceed last year's by a small margin,
burgeoning demand would ensure that grain reserves continue to come under pressure this
year and possibly in 2005.
Chen Xiwen, a senior state council official, said recently that the deficit in grain production
compared with demand this year would be about 37.5m tonnes.
Another senior official, who declined to be named, said falling water tables, drying rivers
and polluted water sources were taking their toll on the productivity of China's fields,
making it unlikely that domestic grain production could be increased much.
Warmongering? (and I did not mention oil imports...)
It's pretty scary really because it is unlikely that the US will consider any choices to get out
from under other than to try and continue it's policy of using military might to access
energy and mineral resources at below the market rate.
Europe will probably be OK but the UK with it's policy of backing two horses (the euro
and the dollar) will take a big hit. China will take a hit the size of which depends on
European and Third World markets ability to withstand the shockwave. In a way long term
it will be beneficial to China as it has become over-heated and from B's figures on food
security above, the urbanization of the Chinese population has caused a drop in food
production. Any slowing of the manufacturing expansion will help control the flow of
people from rural areas and with the increase in food costs brought on by the previous
reduction in production; rural communities could become viable again. This will help the
centralized administration which has been unable to keep up with the infrastructure
demands brought about by this huge internal migration.
And this is where I believe it will get really dangerous for the world. US politicians will not
be able resist pointing out that it is only the great defender of freedom that has been
seriously hit by whatever foreign conspiracy has destroyed their economy. OPEC would be
a good scapegoat. Venezuela and most Middle Eastern counties have been vilified already.
Toss in Nigeria for good measure particularly following recent sectarian violence and some
pol will convince the ever credulous population that a conspiracy of the oil dictators
Chavez, Obasanjo, and Khatami has brought the US down in a mean revenge attack for
their defence of freedom.
Think about it; two Muslims and a Socialist, just the sort of mixture that the people have
already been primed to hate. The sad fact is that even reasonable people's principles take a
back seat when getting food on the table becomes a struggle. Many US citizens who are
currently appalled by their country's occupation of Iraq may find it easier to wear a
economically and morally 'justified' war, especially if the president was a democrat.
Posted by: Debs in '04 | August 24, 2004 07:26 PM
Correction: It was Jerome who provided the data on China's food security
I have to say, we are in a precarious situation.
But, as always I must disagree on a few points. Jerome is dead wrong if he thinks the EU
will not be affected. EU corporation have too many assets in the US. But I do believe the
Euro will come out stronger than the dollar. He is right about one thing, the EU has forced
fiscal responsibility among EU members.
While Greenspan is pointing toward a housing bubble, I believe these instances of bubble
will be isolated. The US population will grow to around 415 million by 2050. As I always
say, those people have to go somewhere. Also, those additional people will be the saving
grace for the US economy. It is only new citizens that can keep the consumption machine
going. Also, they will pay for boomers SS.
I do believe there must be an adjustment in the Japanese and Chinese currencies to ease the
current account deficits. Also, when boomers start to retire, the US government will
repackage bonds and resell them with acqueisence of Japanese and Chinese central banks
for pennies on the dollar.
This is the same thing they did with the South American debt crisis in the 1980s.
Remember Brady Bonds? Yes, it will happen.
Do I believe the stock market could fall. Yes, but, what is the federal governement going to
tell all of those 401K holders who loss their ass?
I can hear the screaming around the world. I want my money. I have said all along, people
must start sticking those dollars in local banks. If they did the US economy would boom.
Oil will see a dramatic decrease in price during the adjustment period. As I said in another
post last week. A ten percent reduction in US demand will tank the oil market. And no, we
have not reached peak oil.
The bottom line is, will it be bad, no, we can manipulate our way out of it.
@ jdp
A ten percent reduction in US demand will tank the oil market. And no, we have not
reached peak oil.
The bottom line is, will it be bad, no, we can manipulate our way out of it.
Whether we have hit Peak Oil or not is arguable. Suffice to say itâ€™s within the time
frame of what weâ€™re discussing. A recent addendum to the argument (posted by b in
another thread.)
I find it informative that and credible that a 10% reduction in US demand might tank the
oil market, but it might also give us breathing space to find alternatives, not only for energy
but for a more adaptive way of life.
That we can manipulate our war out of it in my way of thinking, is realizing that locally or
state wide, we can make a difference. Iâ€™m looking for pragmatic/practical stuff like this
for my campaign and (hopefully) legislative agenda. Think Iâ€™ll run with this one.
Thanks.
Posted by: Juannie | August 24, 2004 10:28 PM
Scary. Real scary. I have heard various rounds of financial doomsaying in earlier decades,
but this time around the real-world factors seem more genuinely "on the brink" than before.
Factor into all this stuff increasing climate instability, possible water shortages, etc. and
you have some potentially very unstable futures. These "wild cards" are big enough to have
all kinds of major effects -- a water shortage that crippled US agriculture for several years,
for example, could have enormously destabilising effects both domestically and abroad.
I certainly never wanted to live in such "interesting times," dunno about the rest of y'all. I
have read a fair bit about the collapse of the USSR and the rise of the Mafia and the
Oligarchs; about the collapse of Argentina; and so forth. it's just no damn fun living in a
country whose economy has recently become toast. the kind of people who claw their way
into power and influence during the chaos are, if possible, even more unpleasant than the
jerks running the show at present. we all (US denizens) fancy that "it can't happen here" but
I am not so sure.
and I share concerns voiced above, that the semi-literate, excitable, easily-manipulated US
TV viewing audience could without much effort be whipped up into a witch-hunting frenzy
in their eagerness to find someone (anyone!) to blame for the disaster.
US moves to banish foreign banks suspected of money-laundering
Post written August 25, 1929
jdp: indeed I've always thought environmentally speaking big depressions are good, less
waste, less pollution. But that's just the cynical in me. Though oil market won't tank.
"The US population will grow to around 415 million by 2050"
That will happen only if the US rules the world economy. If Dow and $ goes down, the
immigration will soon stop as quickly as the foreign investments. Meanwhile, a 415 mio
US means that half the people are non-"whites", Blacks, Latinos, Asians, with the internal
struggle for power that would follow.
Still, I think Europe will take a hit, because *everyone* will take a hit. EU will suffer less
than the US; in fact far less if it depends only on economic and social matters, but the US
may weight in with some new military adventure which may change the overall situation.
Whatever, if the $ and Dow go down, UK will enter Eurozone in a few months or become
irrelevant.
China and food: 10 years ago, they were saying global warming was good for them and
could allow them to grow crop in the Western wastelands, which would get more rain. And
more rain in the East means more harvest. Well, I hope they changed their mind, but that
talk makes me question their motives for encouraging their current insane rush to the
motorcar and other damaging industrialisations.
Great follow up comments everyone. Yes, the flow of in-migration will slow if the
economy slows to much. But not due to the elite classes. Due to a general backlash to
in-migration from the bottom 1/3 of citizens struggling and blaiming "those people."
While we could be on the edge of peak oil, I stiil say world peak oil is 2020-2030. The
current oil situation is Bushies baby. There is $10-20 of sticulation in a barrel of oil. The
American people must realize the 401K situation. There is a draining of the countries
assets.
I don't believe the world of "Soilent Green" is here yet. But around 2050, I can see it.
Hopefully, I'll be long gone.
Posted by: jdp | August 25, 2004 07:31 AM
Sometimes headlines are revealing:
Greenspan Says Fed Can't Tell Whether Housing Bubble Forming
Median home price up $152K in a year
Even sitting in a foam bath Greenspan would not recognize any bubbles.
Another economist warns on the foreign ÂófficialÂ´ asset purchases. Paul Kasriel of The
Northern Trust: How Long Will Foreign Central Banks Keep Financing Our Treasury
Deficit? (PDF)
If these Asian foreign central banks had not purchased these greenbacks and
recycled them into U.S. government and agency securities, the dollar would be
lower in value vs. their currencies and U.S. interest rates would be higher.
...
It is only a question of time before rising Japanese wholesale prices morph
into rising Japanese consumer prices. A rising yen against the dollar would
temper the rise in Japanese wholesale prices, especially rising crude oil prices
in yen terms. My bet is that by midyear 2005, the Bank of Japan will have lost
its appetite for dollar and U.S. government securities. At that point, the dollar
is likely to take a dive and so, too, will U.S. Treasury prices.
The timing looks different then the one in the posted Roach article, but it really isnÂ´t. The
stock market is anticipating economic developments and therefore will fall before the dump
in treasuries will occure and dollar will tank.
Debs in '04, I wish your scenario were a bit less persuasive. Indeed, you have excellently
voiced some of my own worries. With the most powerful (and expensive) military machine
on earth, would the US be able to resist the temptation of becoming the best-equipped
highwayman in history? I doubt it.
The war on Iraq may be the first of a long series of coming wealth wars. One might ask
what's new here, but for the US, I still tend to think the directness and shamelessness has
reached a new dimension. The name Halliburton has not become such a household name
for nothing.
Another thing that worries me: There is a tone, an atmosphere, of schadenfreude at the
impending economic difficulties of the US - certainly in some circles here in Europe, but I
would assume in many other parts of the world as well. It's time people realize that we all
can only lose if the US economy stalls. (Or will it be a chance for the poorest of the poor?
After all, what have they got to lose? Jehova, Jehova, Jehova!)
Teuton: you know, if even "Athenian democracy" couldn't avoid becoming a mafia don
within the Delos League ("We give you protection so that people don't hit on you, but our
service has a price", meaning of course "Pay us now or we send our army to take all your
money"), I feel a bit pessimistic on the possible evolution of the US economy.
The dilemma now is that if the US goes really down, we'll all lose, but if things go on, we'll
all lose as well. Joe Wilson said it best: "we're fucked".
Quote:
â€œI have read a fair bit about the collapse of the USSR and the rise of the Mafia and the
Oligarchs; about the collapse of Argentina; and so forth. it's just no damn fun living in a
country whose economy has recently become toast.â€•
***
Itâ€™s not that much different then what you already have in USA. Itâ€™s a matter of few
(organized) individuals being owners of anything and everything significant. You
Americans are almost there. Now just add that there is law for small people but not for
those individuals and their gang (you are pretty much there too). There is a tax to be paid
by you but NOT by themâ€¦If you just live your miserable life out of their way you are
safe. Theyâ€™ll even let you entertain your self and a crowd with politic as long as you do
not interfere in their business. Do not go there or youâ€™ll be literally dead. I canâ€™t
actually think of any significant difference between establishment of Russia and USA at
this stage.
Independence of media and judicial system including. Itâ€™s only that Americans have
much more material â€œreserveâ€• to go pretty long way denying whatâ€™s happening.
Poverty spreads
Census Bureau says 1.3 million more slipped into poverty last year; health
care coverage also drops.
The number of Americans living in poverty jumped to 35.9 million last year,
up by 1.3 million, while the number of those without health care insurance
rose to 45 million from 43.6 million in 2002, the U.S. government said in a
report Thursday.
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« Open Off Topics Thread | Main | Oily Thread II »
Moon of Alabama: Open Off Topics Thread
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Newspeak Collection | Main | Dow 6,000 »
August 23, 2004
Open Off Topics Thread
News and Views ...
Comments
EAT YOUR HEART OUT KARL ROVE!
Political announcement
German language rendition of above
Posted by: Kim Jong-il | August 23, 2004 05:33 PM
hahahaha....
You mean to say all my "yummies" are communistic in origin?
@koreyel:
I think if you watch it too much you go blind.
Here's a better one; X174 posted this one over at Jerome's. It a flash deal and takes a while
to load.
But well worth the watch.
To the Moon, Mr. Sulu; warp factor 5:
LINK
Watching and worrying
Israeli assessment of America's 'war'
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/open_off_topics.html (1 von 29) [16.11.2004 18:45:34]
As Always NEMO, thank you for presenting a most insightful link.
Ten more years! Ten more years! Ten more years!
Quashing Iraq insurgency could take up to ten years â€“ US military
Killer gangs south of Baghdad leave police quaking behind station walls
Policeman killed in Basra, two more people die in separate attacks in northern Iraq
US warplanes bomb Fallujah
Upbeat US army private, 20, hid story of inner despair - another suicide
Is everybody ready for ten more years?
@NEMO:
I don't think our Farking leadership can even count to 10.
You have a good evening, my friend.
People in focus
Some of the kidnapped Nepalese workers in Iraq. Note the ill-advised choice of apparel of
the man reading out a statement...
Hi-tech, low-tech - Najaf, August 23rd
Bomb falling on Najaf, August 23rd
Impact, Najaf, August 23rd
Baghdad street scene - Olympic dreams? August 23rd
Najaf refugees at al-Kifil, August 23rd
Hadi Mahmoud weeps after the family car was caught in crossfire during clashes, Sadr
City, August 23rd. Hadiâ€™s mother was killed, his father was injured.
Umm Amir holds Amir Kareem Mohammed, injured by shrapnel in clashes in Sadr City,
Baghdad, August 23rd
Protest at the Green Zone, Baghdad, denouncing arrest of Hizbollah official â€“ August
23rd
Baquba, August 23rd - Iraqi National Guardsmen assault civilians as US soldiers of the 3rd
Brigade Reconnaissance Team, 1st Infantry Division, look on
The last picture Indonesian engineer Fahmi Ahmad, 27, sent to his family in Jakarta in July
this year. Fahmi worked for a sub-contractor working for Siemens and was shot dead in
Mosul on August 22nd
The mother of an Iraqi arrested during the tactfully named â€Õperation Grizzly Forced
Entryâ€™ pleads with U.S. Army Lieutenant Jim Jack for her sonâ€™s release, central
Iraq, August 21st
"The gloves are coming off gentleman regarding these detaineesâ€¦"
"â€¦Col. Boltz has made it clear that we want these individuals broken. Casualties are
mounting and we need to start gathering info to help protect our fellow soldiers from any
further attacks...."
2003 Memo appealed for ways to break Iraqi detainees
Following the money...
The Thief of Baghdad
Anyone checked out under Dick Cheney's mattress?
Just close your eyes, cross your fingers and keep saying â€œThe world is a safer place,
the world is a safer place, the world is a safer placeâ€¦.â€•
Ninety-three prominent Muslim figures opposed to US troops in Iraq have
called on Muslims around the world to support resistance to US forces and to
the Iraqi government installed in June.
In the appeal received on Sunday from the offices of Egypt's Muslim
Brotherhood, the Muslim figures from nearly 30 nations, from Germany to
Indonesia, said the aim should be to "purify the land of Islam from the filth of
occupationâ€¦"
â€¦The signatories included senior members of the Brotherhood, leading
Qatari-based moderate Youssef al-Qaradawi, Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan
Nasrallah of Lebanon, Khaled Mashal of the Palestinian group Hamas, two
Egyptian opposition party leaders, Sheikh Abdeslam Yassine of Morocco's
Justice and Charity Group and Yemeni Speaker of Parliament Sheikh
Abdullah al-Ahmar.
Others came from Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bosnia, the Comoros,
Germany, India, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Libya, Malaysia, Mauritania, Pakistan,
Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan and
Tunisiaâ€¦
Senior Muslim figures back Iraqi insurgents
Hey! Those guys have got more countries in their â€˜coalitionâ€™ than the USA has! Still
- holidaying at home can be just as much fun, eh?
Inside Wadi al-Salaam â€“ the Valley of Peace
"...Oh my Jesus Christ, it's a young boy." He stood for a moment examining
the body and then jumped from the minibus and ran some 20 yards before
vomiting on to the groundâ€¦
For the grief-stricken of Iraq, burying the dead is a dangerous business
There's more to al-Sadr than meets the eye
Rawk on Nemo! that last link about al-sadr (more than meets the eye) was a killer
especially that last paragraph...
How goes the war? Whoâ€™s winning?
â€œâ€¦ Al-Qa'ida had sought right from the start to foster confrontation
between the United States and the Islamic World. I recall Shaykh Usama Bin
Ladin telling us: We as an organization cannot continue with the qualitative
operations. So we have to draw the United States into a confrontation with all
the Islamic peoplesâ€¦â€•
Interview with Nasir Ahmad Nasir al-Bahri, former personal bodyguard of Osama Bin
Laden
Good but somewhat depressing. But these days what articles aren't depressing?!
Your Children are Burning - By William Rivers Pitt
From Nemo's link at 1:25:
"Al-Qa'ida had sought right from the start to foster confrontation between the United States
and the Islamic World. I recall Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin telling us: We as an organization
cannot continue with the qualitative operations. So we have to draw the United States into a
confrontation with all the Islamic peoples. This was the plan in the Somalia days. Bin
Ladin had wished the capture of a single US soldier alive to make the United States
withdraw and for the fighting to continue everywhere. Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin and the
Al-Qa'ida have pursued this endeavor and succeeded in drawing the United States into an
unequal confrontation, not from the military technology aspect, but from the ideology
aspect. Muslims have now reached the point where they are fed up with the United States,
which lives in prosperity off our nation's resources. I believe that the United States is
heading for its demise. As to the future of Al-Qa'ida, I believe that it has found what it
wanted. It can now melt into a new caldron, and a new giant would be reborn, of which
Al-Qa'ida would be a part. Many of the Islamic World leaders would join it and the
confrontation with the United States would be inevitable. And, Al-Qa'ida would not be the
leader but a vanguard army."
Nemo, you and I both might want a more peaceful world, but we aren't going to get it any
time soon.
I remember you said, to rememberinggiap, that Americans deserve whatever they get. I've
got a paycheck that says they don't.
Iraqi teens abused at Abu Ghraib, US Army report finds
12.15pm, Iraq time, Spot the odd one out
Shiâ€™ite gunmen take to the streets in Iraqâ€™s Basra
U.S. pounds Iraq Shi'ite rebels, car bomb in Baghdad
Bombs target two ministerial convoys â€“ five dead
Twin car blasts target Iraqi ministers â€“ at least five dead
Nepalese workers kidnapped in Iraq
Weâ€™re making progress in Iraq - Bush
13 Nepalese workers kidnapped in Iraq
George Monbiot at The Guardian on living without oil An answer in Somerset - The Age of
Entropy is here. We should all now be learning how to live without oil
Inside an â€Ãmerican houseâ€™- in Iraq
â€¦At 4 a.m. the day after Hatab's arrival, Roy and Pittman â€“ whose civilian
job is as a federal prison guard in New York â€“ went into Hatab's holding
pen, woke him and forced the hooded prisoner to his feet. Hatab wandered
around the cell aimlessly and became entangled in barbed wire. Pittman for
some reason punched him in the torso, Roy testified.
At this point, Roy said, Hatab began moaning "why, why, why" and "my
children, my children." The prisoner said "something about he had 11
children," Roy recalled. Roy responded to these moans by asking Hatab
whether he had ever considered the children of the American soldiers whom
he was suspected of ambushing during the war.
It was then, Roy said, that Pittman delivered a violent karate-kick to Hatab's
chest, sending the prisoner flying backward and to the ground.
"I said, 'Sgt. Pittman, let's get the hell out of here before we hurt this guy,' "
Roy testifiedâ€¦.
â€¦During his Article 32 testimony, Roy also said that he, Pittman and a third
Marine administered a random beating to another prisoner, a sheik. The sheik
had done nothing, Roy admitted, to provoke the attack.
"We wanted to make him know that he was basically in our house," Roy
testifiedâ€¦.
Marine reservist set to testify in court-martial of a comrade
A report by ABC this morning of the pending Gitmo "trial" of Australian David Hicks. It
was a very surreal interview of military spokesman. Listen or read the transcript.
Posted by: YY | August 24, 2004 06:32 AM
Rebels defiant inside shrine
Scene of bomb attack on Environment Minister Miskhat Moumin, Baghdad, August 24th
Basra, August 24th
Checkpoint, Basra, August 24th
Takeover, Basra, August 24th
Shi3a patrol, Basra, August 24th
Umar Zaidan, an Iraqi journalist and editorial secretary of the Iraqi newspaper
al-Basaer said there was a media blackout on armed operations against US-led
occupation forces in Iraq. ... "But after we get enough information we say a
number of dead and a number of wounded, and sometimes we should
elaborate how serious the wounds are, but with US forces in Iraq it is always
casualties and the number always less than the truth," he said.
Aljazeera.net spoke to Lieutenant-Colonel TV Johnson, public affairs officer
of the First Marines Expeditionary Force who said the amount of information
given to the media was based on tactical necessities.
"It is something all armies do in war time. You do not want the enemy to
know about your actual loss, and whether he was successful in the attack
he carried out on your troops or not," he said.
Iraqi cleric slams war coverage
So what are the real numbers?
Uncle $cam on the Newspeak thread:
In it, he discusses the covert manner in which government and media create public opinion
through bias, euphemisms, and skewed storytelling.
Uncle $cam on this thread:
that last link about al-sadr ... was a killer especially that last paragraph...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An idea to explore should one ever dare to teach critical thinking skills in a classroom:
Ever noticed how the most interesting stuff in an article often appears in the last few
paragraphs?
That in fact there is an inversion of value built into newspaper articles?
The headline-->worthless and often totally detached from the content.
The first few paragraphs-->The most socially convenient exposition. Almost always
government-friendly.
The fourth paragraph--> Around about where the minority inconvenient viewpoint appears.
The last paragraphs-->The killer incisive gist of the whole damn thing. The fine print...
buried deep where the good citizens won't likely ever tread.
Devious stuff.
Whereas grocery stores put the milk way in back so you have to make a tempting
walk...these guys seem to try to stop in you in your tracks with a headline and a few initial
becalming paragraphs....
30,000 raids net 100 charges
Thanks to Nemo for the pictures. Hesitant thanks, as they are depressing. Korean sex, ha ha
ha.
@ Blackie: "Korean sex, ha ha ha."
The graphic artist in me says, WOW! The rest of me does too. Turn the speakers up.
From todays new report on prisoner abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan
The 800th Military Police Brigade had one year of notice to plan for detention
operation in Iraq.
Thats sometime early in 2002.
After giving us the run-down on What Went Wrong In Iraq (www.foreignaffairs.org), Larry
Diamond writes:
"Because of the failures and shortcomings of the occupation-as well as the intrinsic
difficulties that any occupation following Saddam's tyranny was bound to confront-it is
going to take a number of years to rebuild the Iraqi state and to construct any kind of viable
democratic and constitutional order in Iraq. The post-handover transition is going to be
long, and initially very bloody. It is not clear that the country is going to be able to conduct
reasonably credible elections by next January. And even if those elections are held in a
minimally acceptable fashion, it is hard to imagine that the over-ambitious transition
timetable for the remainder of 2005 will be kept. Nevertheless, the end of occupation and
the transfer of authority to an interim government on June 28 offered at least a chance for a
new beginning. And there is no alternative to this transitional program that does not involve
one awful scenario or another: civil war, massive renewed repression, the establishment of
a safe haven for terrorist organizations-or quite possibly all three.
"The transition in Iraq is going to need a huge amount of international assistance-political,
economic, and military-for years to come. Hopefully, the U.S. performance will improve
now that Iraqis are in charge of their own future. It is going to be costly and it will continue
to be frustrating. Yet a large number of courageous Iraqi democrats, many with comfortable
alternatives abroad, are betting their lives and their fortunes on the belief that a new and
more democratic political order can be developed and sustained in Iraq. The United States
owes it to them-and to itself-to continue to help them."
Mr. Diamond seems like a bright enough, nice enough guy, but the chances of a huge
multinational effort succeeding in making Iraq a free, secure, and viable state are
exceedingly bad. Stable democracies have two reqirements: a high general level of
education and a large middle class. As a rule of thumb, where these are absent democracy
cannot take hold.
How many times have we heard that only a bigot would suggest that Iraqis - and other
Arabs - are incapable of democracy? But the problem really is that conditions are not yet
favorable for democratization, which is a natural process for which there is no shortcut.
If we really wanted to encourage democracy in the Middle East then we might start by
ending our subsidy of undemocratic regimes in the region. Then we could stop engaging in
wars that require us to co-opt other truly unsavory Middle Eastern governments.
If democracy in the Middle East is desirable, then we might consider letting nature, rather
than the US Treasury, the State Department, and the DoD, take its course.
More obsessive thoughts on the unfolding Plame affair: if Fitzgerald indicts Rove, the team
will remain intact. If he indicts Cheney, Cheney will have to step down. There are two
strong possible replacements: Powell, who helped set this up to start with, and McCain,
who has nothing to do with it. But the ever-popular Powell is staying away from the
Convention, and may really want to see Bush lose the election; McCain, on the other hand,
may exact the price of Rove's demission--or perhaps a veto over Rove's attacks on John
Kerry. Which is why, I suppose, the name of Giuliani keeps popping up--a non-starter if
ever there was one.
I have my doubts concerning some of Mr. Diamond's assumptions, most of all the
following: "Hopefully, the U.S. performance will improve now that Iraqis are in charge of
their own future." Of course, I am, unlike Mr. Diamond, too underinformed to have a
well-founded opinion on the matter. But, judging from what I have read (Allawi is a former
CIA-asset, the handpicked interim government rules over little more than over the ground
covered by US tanks and planes etc.), the insight that they are in charge of their own future
seems not to be shared by the majority of Iraqis. Al-Sadr may not be the answer, but is
Allawi if the US wills it?
I agree with you, Pat, let them have their own shot at democracy (if the concept as we think
of it is not too fraught with our cultures' associations). But do you really think the US will
leave them alone? That would require the complete change of doctrine you have admitted
you don't see coming. Kerry will/would not be the president to change it.
Nicely written Pat.
I too have that "sizable middle class is requisite for democracy" meme inside my head.
Any idea of the sources?
I wonder about its accuracy.
In the meanwhile...are not the new overtime pay rules an attempt to undermine America's
middleclass?
Here is a question I've asked several times in blog places. As far as I know no one else has
ever asked it and no one has ever responded to my asking of it:
If you had 200 billion to spend on promoting democracy in the Middle East how would you
spend it?¹
(Why am I the only one asking this question?!?)
Lastly and most apporpriately...a quote about democracy from Will and Ariel Durant's The
Lessons of History:
Democracy is the most difficult of all forms of gevernment, since it requires the widest
spread of intelligence, and we forgot to make ourselves intelligent when we made ourselves
sovereign.
¹Assuming here that the current Iraq war cost is 200 billion, altho...I am willing to make
that 300 billion...etc...
@Pat
Stable democracies have two reqirements: a high general level of education and a large
middle class.
Iraq is thereby the best candidate for a kind of democracy in the Middle East. It has high
level of education and (had?) a decent middle class. But the only way for them to succed is
without interference from the outside. Any foreign troops should leave immediately. There
will be a short cival war and after that help shoudl be given from the outside, financially
and through trade terms. That could probably lead to some democracy, probably to some
autocracy. Foreign troops in Iraq only prolongs the bad times and does not assure or help a
positive result.
@teuton
I think Iraqis ought to be left to their own devices. It IS their country. We CAN give it
back. If the time is not ripe for a democracy (and it isn't) then there are a hundred and one
other set-ups that might suit them just fine for now. Many of those who can't abide it will
seek friendlier climes.
Iraqis might end up with a civil war. Personally, I'd rather have a civil war than a foreign
occupation or puppet government backed by foreign troops and money.
No, I don't think the US will leave them alone. Benign neglect is anathema to the busy bees
who revel in this kind folly.
Plame case
Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper has avoided the threat of jail by agreeing to be
interviewed yesterday by Justice Department prosecutors investigating whether White
House officials illegally leaked the identity of a covert CIA operative to journalists.
Time magazine said in a statement today that Cooper agreed to give a deposition "because
the one source the special counsel asked about," Lewis I. "Scooter" Libby, chief of staff for
Vice President Cheney, had waived a confidentially agreement he had with Cooper. The
statement from Time spokesperson Diana Pearson said that Libby also had agreed to allow
the magazine to disclose its agreement with him. Time Reporter Answers Questions About
Plame Leak
This tells me that Libby was not the leak - but who knows.
This tells me that Libby was not the leak - but who knows.
Who knows???
From my perspective it looks like Libby decided to fall on his stinking sword.
Better him than Cheney.
And better Cheney than Bush.
To paraphrase an old americanism:
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool me any of the time.
Which is to say: The vindictiveness of the Plame leak traces all the way up to Bush-thug.
That's the way this little man plays life. He is no more enlightened than a mafia don.
He is as guilty guilty guilty as Nixon was guilty.
Anything else...is pure white(boy)-wash,
Pig slop,
and...
Canary manure.
Bush authorized the leak...I bet my soul on it.
@koreyel
"I too have that "sizable middle class is requisite for democracy" meme inside my head.
Any idea of the sources? I wonder about its accuracy."
Well, you could look at those countries that are democracies and compare their
demographics to those that aren't.
Rising and widening levels of education and affluence bring demands for greater individual
autonomy, social equality, and political participation. (Think of the civil rights movement
in the US, for instance.) It really is a spontaneous process, and not always a peaceful one.
I thought Jack Straw was solving Sudan today.
Koreyel, I would first ask for their opinion. So it is hard to respond .. ?
One Muslim against democracy:
UPI Interview with Gen. Hameed Gul (former chief of ISI), 26 Sept. 2001.
We need a meeting, not a clash, of civilizations. We are on the brink of disaster. It is time to
pull back from the brink and reassess before we blow ourselves up. The purpose of Islam is
service to humanity. The time for like-minded people to have a meeting of the minds is now.
.....
Q: But you are against democracy, so how can there be a meeting of the minds?
A: Democracy does not work. Politicians are constantly thinking of their next election, not
the public good, which means, at best, constantly shading the truth to hide it from their
constituents. Their pronouncements are laced with lies and the voters are lulled or gulled
into believing utter nonsense. The Koran says call a spade a spade. It is the supreme law
and tells right from wrong. There is no notion of "my country right or wrong" under divine
law. The creator's will predominates. All if subservient to Allah's will and adherence to a
set of basic, fundamental values.
....
Q: So what kind of a system are you advocating?
A: The world needs a post-modern state system. Right now, the nation-state and round the
clock satellite TV lead people to imitate America's way of life. Which is mathematically
impossible. You have 4 percent of the world's population consuming 32 percent of the
world's resources. The creator through Prophet Mohammed said equal distribution.
Capitalism is the negation of the creator's will. It leads to imperialism and unilateralism.
Q: So what does this post-modern state system look like?
A: A global village under divine order, or we will have global bloodshed until good
triumphs over evil. Islam encapsulates all the principal religions and what was handed
down 1,400 years ago was the normal evolutionary sequel to Judaism and Christianity. The
prophet's last sermon was a universal document of human rights for everyone that
surpasses everything that came since, including America's declaration of independence and
the U.N. Charter of universal rights. If you superimpose true secular values on true Islamic
values, there is no difference. So surely divine law should supersede man-made law. Islam
is egalitarian, tolerant and progressive. It is the wave of the future.
Link
koreyel, I think there's a statute saying that a sitting President can't be indicted--that the
indictment can only come down after he leaves office. If so, then I can imagine Fitzgerald
settling for Cheney and Rove. He could proceed with his indictments, and, given the folks
he'd be indicting, a general conviction of the President's culpability would then be
unavoidable. Bush, at that point, trying to shield Cheney and Rove from those indictments,
might then announce that he's the responsible party--that "the buck stops here"--which of
course no one would really believe, since no one's ever seen Bush take responsibility for
anything. It would be the ultimate act of "damage limitation".
@blackie
I lived in an Islamic country for six years and loved an Islamic woman. That post hits the
nail on the head.
CP, what do you mean when you say Blackie's post hits the nail on the head? Do you mean
it is the opinion of most Muslims concerning democracy, or do you mean you share the
opinion? Sorry, but it's not clear to me.
teuton............. I share that opinion that Blackie posted.
Meanwhile, Russian Jets are falling down.
@koreyel
for 200b$ you can:
- build 200,000 MW of wind power capacity (and probably more with economies of scale
and improvements). That's 20% of US generating capacity
- pay for a lot of research on batttery powered cars
- buy 5b barrels of oil. That's 8 months worth of US consumption; over a year of US
imports;
- more than 3 times all development aid worldwide. Enough to buy a lot of malaria
medicine, school lunches, AIDs treatment - i.e. enough to save a large numer of lives.
- more than the cuulative export revenues of (I'm guessing) the 80 poorest countries, i.e.
enough to buy off their leaders so that they actually implement good policies instead of
looting the limited) wealth of their countries.
...
"If you had 200 billion to spend on promoting democracy in the Middle East how would
you spend it?Â¹"
Does anyone know of a case where democracy was brought about through US govt.
programs?
I can more easily think of money that we OUGHT not spend, and things we OUGHT not
do, in order to promote democracy.
And whether and why we should be in the business of democracy-promotion certainly
deserves vigorous debate. Is it necessary? Is it wise? Is it proper? Is it our moral
responsibility? Does it lead to the tendency to be "humanitarians manning the guillotine?"
What we need, I think, is an Ann Landers School of Foreign Policy, guided by the
commandment to mind one's own business.
@teuton
CP, what do you mean when you say Blackie's post hits the nail on the head? Do you mean
it is the opinion of most Muslims concerning democracy, or do you mean you share the
opinion? Sorry, but it's not clear to me.
CPâ€™s reply:
teuton............. I share that opinion that Blackie posted.
teuton,
I read an insinuation into your question that CPâ€™s response precluded your response. If
he had responded â€œit is the opinion of most Muslims concerning democracyâ€• , I would
be interested in hearing your response.
And:
Blackie's link to "UPI Interview with Gen. Hameed Gul " was an eyeopener for me.
Two Russian planes downed
Breaking news reports are saying that one of the planes sent a hijack alert before
disappearing, both planes are now confirmed crashed. It is the Chechen election soon....
Russian jet sent hijack signal
Re: NEMOâ€™s link to:
Two Russian planes downed
After reading UPI Interview with Gen. Hameed Gul
I see a different footprint on the two happenings. Iâ€™ll bet the Chechnyans get the first
credit but think Iâ€™ll see a lot of links to Bin Laden also. Iâ€™ll doubt whatever I read
until I hear a lot of comments from this crowd.
Posted by: Juannie | August 25, 2004 12:28 AM
Uncivil wars
The hawks on Iraq turn on each other
@NEMO:
Come Join Me Here.
We talk a Little Bit.
LINK
Posted by: Harold Lloyd | August 25, 2004 01:35 AM
@Nemo
So, Francis Fukayama now openly regrets a war that he says he didn't agree with in the first
place - and didn't publically oppose because "it was inevitable". Nice.
What sort of a thinker is Francis? I've got a heavily-highlighted, very bad book of his: The
End Of History And The Last Man. A taste:
"In a situation in which all moralisms and religious fanatacisms are discouraged in the
interest of tolerance, in an intellectual climate that weakens the possibility of belief in any
one docrine because of an overriding commitment to be open to all the world's beliefs and
'value systems,' it should not be surprising that the strength of community life has declined
in America. This decline has occurred not despite liberal principles, but because of them.
This suggests that no fundamental strengthening of community life will be possible unless
individuals give back certain of their rights to communities, and accept the return of certain
historical forms of intolerance."
A piece of work he is.
Ex-British Prime Minister's son bitten by Scorpions
Mark Thatcher arrested in Cape Town home on suspicion of involvement in coup plot in
Equatorial Guinea
Pat,
They are all 'pieces of work'!
Sly old fox makes move...
Al-Sistani en route back to Iraq - calls on all Iraqis to march on An Najaf
Insurgents show no sign of letting up
America at a crossroads
Democracy matters are frightening in our time - Cornel West
Very interesting writing - and reading.
They are all 'pieces of work'!
Indeed they are, Nemo.
In these times...
Fleeing the fighting in Najaf, August 24th
Crossing a Najaf road, August 24th
Fear, Najaf, August 24th
Mother, daughter and thing, Najaf, August 25th
Young Iraqi stands in the rubble of his father's factory, destroyed in US air strike, Fallujah,
August 24th
Sadr City, Baghdad, August 24th
An Iraqi tribal leader on the streets of Basra, August 24th
Al-Mehdi militia, Basra, August 24th
Basra street scene, August 24th
Jubilant militia, Basra, August 24th
US Army Abu Ghraib torturer Staff-sergeant Ivan L. Frederick II with wife Martha,
Mannheim, Germany, August 24th
Another street, another armored vehicle - site of the Republican National Convention, New
York, August 24th
Kerry beware....
...the lethal weapon of Bush, the bumbler
That floating 90% of voters - the American people and politics
"...Converse claimed that only around ten per cent of the public has what can be called,
even generously, a political belief system..."
The unpolitical animal
The 10 Ways Bush Screwed New York
Interesting theory by Mark Ames.
SPITE! it wins votes
There's a lot of truth in Ames' article, I think. Not only about the liberal wealthy elite, with
guys like Soros clearly having a smarter survival strategy than many idiots supporting
Bush, but also, of course, with the fact that many people know Bush is bad and revel in it.
These are the same despicable excuses for human beings that once cheered Goebbels when
he said "When I hear the word culture, I grab my gun".
Two killed at pro-Sadr march in Kufa
Four dead in US airstrikes in Fallujah
Armored US patrol, Najaf, August 25th
Terrorist? Masked Iraqi police officer, Najaf, August 25th
July 11th picture of National Security Adviser Mowaffaq al-Rubaie â€“ it was announced
today that he has had a (convenient) heart attack
Homecoming, al-Sistaniâ€™s convoy sweeps into Basra, August 25th
Back - Basra, August 25th
Raptores orbis...
â€¦Raptores orbis, postquam cuncta vastantibus defuere terrae, iam mare
scrutantur: si locuples hostis est, avari, si pauper, ambitiosi, quos non Oriens,
non Occidens satiaverit. . . . Auferre trucidare rapere falsis nominibus
imperium, atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellantâ€¦
Gaius Cornelius Tacitus (c56AD â€“ c120AD), in his Agricola recounting
the alleged words of the chieftain Calgacus
Brigands of the world, after the earth has failed their all-devastating hands,
they probe even the sea; if their enemy be wealthy, they are greedy; if he be
poor, they are ambitious; neither the East nor the West has glutted them. . . .
They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire,
and where they make a wasteland, they call it peaceâ€¦
Najaf, August 25th
Thanks again Nemo for following everything in Najaf.
With Sistani back and calling on all Iraqis to come to Najaf he finds the best possible
solution to contain AsSadr, the US and the Iraqi Government. If 100,000 people come
peacefully to Najaf whoever dares to touch them would loose big time.
Paul Craig Roberts at antiwar.com:
I wish Kerry would show the same courage and guts in criticizing the U.S. invasion of Iraq
and the attack on our civil liberties as he showed in criticizing the Vietnam War and turning
his swift boats into the enemy fire and chasing down the attackers. Nevertheless, the only
way Bush can be held accountable for Iraq is to be voted out of office.
However unappealing the alternative candidate, if the electorate fails to hold Bush
accountable for invading Iraq on false pretenses and multiplying the recruits to al-Qaeda,
American democracy will have failed.
This will be understood everywhere in the world, and American power will fail as well.
Iraq and Vietnamâ€¦
â€¦Iraq veterans are beginning to express similar sentiments. In Boston they sounded not
unlike their Vietnam predecessors. They emphasized the large-scale killing of Iraqi
civilians by American firepower, along with their own widespread confusion. "We were
lost. We had no idea what we were doing," was the way one put itâ€¦.
Made in Iraq â€“ the new anti-war veteran
Thirty-eight years ago this very month, a young congressman told his
colleagues that something was seriously amiss about huge wartime contracts
awarded to a company with a big friend in a high place.
"The potential for waste and profiteering under such a contract is substantial,"
he warned. It is "beyond me," he went on, why the contract "has not been and
is not now being adequately audited."
The war was Vietnam. The company was Brown & Root, a subsidiary of
Halliburton that is now known as KBR. The big friend in a high place was
Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson. And the impassioned young
congressman was Donald Rumsfeld.
Pricey War for Grunts' Families
Ritual accomplished
Kerry renews calls for Rumsfeld to resign over Abu Ghraib
After a positive assessment of the campaign against al Qaeda, Jim Lacy at NRO writes:
"Real dangers do remain, however. Even a tottering al Qaeda could probably scrape up the
resources to launch one or more spectacular attacks over the next few years. Everything
must therefore be done to keep the remnants of al Qaeda on the ropes and prevent them
from launching a new strike on U.S. soil. More dangerous, though, is the very real threat
that a new al Qaeda will rise from the ashes of the last. This organization would be staffed
by men who had learned the lessons of the first and who are possibly receiving substantial
state support from countries feeling threatened by our response to 9/11."
Um, al Qaeda 2.0 is already on the market. And not only would substantial state support be
a contravention of its most successful feature, those states feeling most threatened by our
response to 9-11 happen to be nominal allies who find themselves between a rock and a
hard place.
Tin Foil Hat Time?
The Russian jets were flying south to Athens.
Putin reneged on the deal and the Migs took them out?
War in Georgia? Some hardware delivered to Iraq?
Why sure the USA holds most of the cards in Iraq â€“ Aces and Eights
U.S. deck of most-wanted cards falls short
So, after youâ€™ve played cards a while â€“ then what? How about â€˜Blind manâ€™s
buff'? Remember - "You've got to ask yourself one question...Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya
punk?"
Policing the media in 'democratic' Iraq
Iraqi policemen rounded up dozens of journalists at gunpoint in a Najaf hotel and took them
to police headquarters before later releasing them.
Firing their guns in the air, the dozen odd policemen, some masked, stormed into the rooms
of journalists in the Najaf Sea hotel and forced them into vans and a truck.
An AFP correspondent, who was also forced into a van, said the police pushed and pulled
many reporters at gunpoint....
Iraqi police seize journalists in Najaf
USS Cole â€“ how these things are doneâ€¦
Yemen's former interior minister helped the alleged mastermind of the attack
on the USS Cole to pass through security checkpoints in the months leading up
to the 2000 bombing, according to a document read out in a Yemeni court
Wednesday by a lawyer for five of the accused plotters.
â€¦The letter alleging a government role in facilitating terror activities
appeared to shock prosecutors in court, and even security guards exchanged
bewildered looks. Officials at the ministries of interior and foreign affairs
refused to comment on the document.
Yemen tolerated Muslim extremists for many years, but after the Sept. 11
attacks its government cracked down on militant groups and aligned itself with
the U.S.-led war on terror. It has received U.S. military aid, such as anti-terror
training for its soldiers.
Al-Harazi is one of the names used by Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the sixth
defendant and the alleged mastermind of the suicide attack that killed 17
American sailors on the ship. Al-Nashiri is being tried in absentia. He is in
U.S. custody at an undisclosed location.
The court accepted the letter as evidence, while the prosecutor, Saeed al-Aqel,
crumpled a copy of it and threw it on the ground in disgust. It was not
immediately clear how the defense obtained a copy of the letterâ€¦.
Document may implicate former Yemen Government Minister in USS Cole plot
{Not} isolated incidents
In prisoner death trial, Marine says guards often hit Iraqis for sleep deprivation
Hidden costs of the warâ€¦.continuedâ€¦.
HOLLYWOOD, Fla. - A man who had just been told his Marine son had been killed in
combat in Iraq set fire to a Marine Corps van and suffered severe burns Wednesday, police
said.
Three Marines went to a house in Hollywood to tell the parents of Pfc. Alexander
Arredondo that the 20-year-old died Tuesday in Najaf, according to police and television
reports.
Carlos Arredondo, 44, then walked out of the house with a torch and what appeared to be a
container of flammable liquid, reports said.
Police said that despite the Marines' efforts to stop him, Arredondo set the van and himself
on fire. The Marines pulled him out of the burning vehicle and put out the flames, police
said.
Arredondo was listed in serious condition at a Miami hospitalâ€¦.
Man burns Marine van after GI son's death
Musical interlude
Fallujah song - free download
Contemporary protest songs by Dave Rovics â€“ free downloads
Check out â€Ãfter we torture our prisonersâ€™ and â€˜The war is overâ€™ is you want a
quick â€Ãmerican health checkâ€™â€¦
Americaâ€™s imported â€˜Governorâ€™ wanders off-message, police-chief has hotline
to Bruce Willis
â€œâ€¦Earlier, Najaf Gov. Adnan al-Zurufi said Iraqi security forces had "taken all needed
measures to prevent any crowds from entering the province," calling it a "military area."
In Kufa, Iraqi police sealed off the Old City, preventing cars from entering, and Najaf's
police chief, Maj. Gen. Ghalib al-Jazaari, said al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia was on its last
legs.
"The Mahdi Army is finished," he said. "Its hours are numberedâ€¦."
Top cleric returns, seeks peace in Najaf
Iâ€™d hazard a guess that al-Zurufi, the ex-Dearborn social welfare claimant, will have a
little trouble getting troops â€“ American, let alone Iraqi â€“ to waste Ayatollah al-Sistani
and his tens of thousands of followers when they commence the march on Najaf at 7.00am,
Iraq time, on Thursday. Thatâ€™s the trouble with putting imbeciles in jobs that require a
keen political vision and an ability to react quickly to changing circumstances â€“ I mean,
just look at George Bush and his merry men (and token woman).
On death and dying...
Elisabeth Kubler-Ross dies
Thursday, August 26th, 07.50 Iraq time - Ayatollah al-Sistani and thousands of Shi'ites
are on the move and meanwhile...
...Najaf under intense shelling barrage
Asymmetrical Warfare redefined.
Is it too late to check the biometrics of the various neocon_men?
I have noticed that Cheney seems to list rather noticably to the starboard side...
From Defense and the National Interest (d-n-i.net):
Loopy OODA Loops:
The Triumph of Faith & Interests Over Facts & Reason
May 30, 2004
Comment: # 513
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------The American strategist Col John Boyd developed the theory of a continuously adaptive
decision cycle â€” Observation / Orientation / Decision / Action Loops â€” as a means for
staying connected to and for overcoming the external threats in a menacing environment.
[see Boyd and Military Strategy]
A faith-based decision-making strategy, on the other hand, is driven by a non-adaptive
ideology, akin to what Boyd would have called a hard-wired Orientation. In such a strategy,
staying on message means that observations are forced through a fixed filter that sees what
it wants to see, and consequently decisions and actions are driven more by the internal
wiring of the Orientation than by any evolving relationship to the external world. Thus the
entire OODA loop turns inside itself, connected to some rigid formality, but disconnected
from the environment that loop is supposed to cope with. Remember how faith in a rigid
communist ideology disconnected decision-makers in the Soviet Union from events outside
themselves.
Boyd's work is crucially important because he showed that the inevitable result of a
decision process that loops inside itself is growing confusion and disorder. Under
conditions of menace, such a decision process risks escalation into chaos, panic and
overload, leading ultimately to paralysis and collapse.
The government of the United States has not reached Boyd's endgame, yet. But the
[administration's loopy behavior], viewed through Boyd's lens, suggests the presence of an
incestuously amplifying, self-referential OODA Loop headed precipitously in that
direction.
On the run on whitewash in the USA
â€¦If you're waiting around for evidence of the phone call from Donald
Rumsfeld to Pfc. Lynndie England - the one where he orders the "code red,"
instructing her to pile up a bunch of naked, hooded men and strike a
queen-of-the-mountain pose - you'll wait forever. That's not how armies
function. Armies depend on the realities of the chain of command and the
cha-cha of plausible deniabilityâ€¦
No smoking gun
@NEMO:
In Re Kubler Ross:
On Dying:
Stage1:Kick Ass
Stage2:Kick 5 kiloton Ass
Stage3:Kick 10 KT Ass
Stage4:Kick 10 Megaton Ass
All these psycho-babblers are most Amusing
Afraid of Living and Scared of Dying.
Fading in Life, I hope I got
Col. G.A. Custer, with my last shot.
Posted by: Lakota Warrior | August 26, 2004 01:35 AM
Christopher Allbritton reports on his Bad Day in Najaf at www.back-to-iraq.com. Verrrry
interesting.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A mortar shell hit the main mosque in the Iraqi city of Kufa, just
northeast of Najaf, causing dozens of casualties, witnesses said.
The mosque was crowded with men at the time and ambulances raced to the scene to take
scores of wounded to a nearby hospital. Dead bodies lay around the mosque compound,
witnesses said...
Mortar shell hits mosque in Kufa
Kufa â€“ many casualties
Link for PatÂ´s comment above: Christopher Allbritton
â€œYella, yellaâ€• they ordered us. BANG BANG! They fired their weapons
just over our heads forcing us to crouch. The foreign journalists and the Arab
media were separated into separate trucks and we were all brought to the
police station at gunpoint. On the way, they continued to scream at us and
point their weapons in our faces.
Mortar attack kills 25 at Kufa mosque, 60 injured
Sadr loyalty grows, even as Sistani returns
Kufa shooting victim, injured when demonstration came under fire, killing and wounding
several people, August 25th
Injured in Kufa mosque blast, August 26th
Part of al-Sistani entourage leaving Basra, August 26th
An inspector calls...
"We're going to fuck the lot of you."
Police abduct journalists
@koreyel (sorry I stepped in rather late): you don't really think that what the US is up to in
Iraq is "promoting democracy" do you? you should go (re)read Zbig's book on the "correct"
relationship between the world's only hyperpower and the lesser races, er, sorry, nations.
divide et impera! -- which means, civil war, chaos, anarchy and warlordism are preferable,
in the thinking of our current boy geniuses in power, to any (a) united, modern, prosperous
Arab country with delusions of progress and automony, (b) (and this is what really scares
'em) any kind of pan-Arab transnational movement. I dunno who is more scared of these
prospects, the Israelis or the Americans -- each, for their own reasons, "needs" to keep the
Arab/Muslim world fragmented, riddled with internecine strife, and backwards. (and I ain't
saying they don't have help from within, but that's a separate issue.)
imho the descent of Afghanistan into tribal fiefdoms and the chaos in Iraq are precisely
what the Amis set out to achieve, and they are now poised to wreck Iran if they can do it.
ex-nation-states, piles of rubble where survivors fight each other for scraps of foreign aid,
are easier to pillage than cohesive societies with national identities, patriotic sentiments,
etc.
the last thing the US wants in the Middle East or Central Asia is a strong, coherent
geopolitical player able to make good strategic use of the oil reserves there. at least, that's
my reading: the goal is to destabilise, hamstring, and derange Muslim/Arab civil societies
to the max: by supporting dictators where necessary, and where that isn't sufficient (where
the dictator is too successful in keeping things together and an economy running), declaring
"war on terror" and shooting the whole barroom to smithereens.
of course, the obviously racist onslaught on Iraq, the hypocritical hit-n-run on Afghanistan,
the "Israel our country right or wrong" policy, all are bound to encourage and build the very
same pan-Muslim, pan-Arab transnational solidarity movement that these guys fear so
much in the first place -- but imho a far more angry and dangerous version of it! the law of
unintended consequences kicks in once again...
watching them start the rhetorical war on Iran is giving me the cold shivers. doesn't the
public recognise the same old BS when it's served up so obviously warmed over from the
last go-round? OK, I'm raving, sorry, it's just all getting to be a bit much for me.
I remember you said, to rememberinggiap, that Americans deserve whatever they get. I've
got a paycheck that says they don't.
bloody brilliant Pat. thanks for that.
Iraq is now more dangerous to the US than when they went to war
There was no "imminent threat" to the United States from Iraq. Then there was
no strategy for building a new Iraq."Hubris and ideology" ruled. Now, "Iraq is
more dangerous to the US potentially than it was at the moment we went to
war".
These are the reluctant judgments of one of the key US officials who
participated in the highest levels of decision-making of the Coalition
Provisional Authority (CPA). Both interviewed by me and in a forthcoming
article in Foreign Affairs journal, Larry Diamond offers from the heart of the
Green Zone an unvarnished first-hand account of the unfolding strategic
catastrophe...
A ruinous trap of their own making
we should remember that Sadr has always said that if Sistani gave him a formal request to
vacate Najaf he would do so without question.
is Sistani back and is he pissed....yet?
i think so.
Three star bigotry
A Defense Department investigation has found that a top Army general
violated Pentagon rules with his anti-Muslim remarks to Christian groups, yet
one Pentagon official dismissed the errors as "relatively minor." That
obtuseness reflects a stunning inability to understand how much the comments
have hurt the United States abroad.
It is unfathomable why Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin has been allowed
to keep his job. When Boykin's remarks became known last October, President
Bush limited himself to a tepid announcement that the comments about
Muslims and Islam did not reflect his point of view or that of his
administration. And Boykin soldiers on...
Boykin - a disgrace to any uniform (except a bedsheet)
Saboteurs attack multiple Iraqi pipelines
Sadr supporters attacked near Najaf
Supporters of Sistani fired upon â€“ 20 dead
It is not clear yet if the two shooting incidents are actually confused accounts of one event.
Twenty seven people are now said to be dead after the mortar attack on the Kufa mosque
and tensions are running very, very high. If you ever pray for peace, today is a day for it.
...Not long after the blasts dozens of people were wounded when Iraqi national guardsmen
opened fire on a demonstration in Kufa in support of radical Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada
Sadr, an AFP photographer witnessed.
Thousands of people chanting their solidarity with Sadr and denouncing Iraqi interim
Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, were heading for nearby Najaf, where Sadr's Mehdi Army is
fighting US and Iraqi government forces.
They were passing a military base on the road between Kufa and its twin city of Najaf,
when the national guardsmen opened fire at them, the photographer said....
Twenty five killed, dozens wounded in Kufa violence as Sistani returns
Allawi - 24 hour ceasefire will commence in Najaf when al-Sistani arrives
Some of the dead after mosque blast, laid out at Kufa hospital, August 26th
As Kufa hospital ran out of space many of those injured in the mortar attack on Kufa
mosque had to be treated in the hospital garden, August 26th
Tending an injured survivor of mosque blast, Kufa hospital garden, August 26th
Tending to wounded after mosque blast, Kufa hospital garden, August 26th
@Nemo
Could you please cut it back just a little bit by further consolidating your comments.
Nothing against them, but they kind of drown the discussion.
Please answer via email - thanks.
@DeAnander
Interesting take on US policy (promoting chaos as a goal on its own). However, Iran
whatever the faults of its current leadership, is a real country, with a proud history and a
strong sense of itself as a nation. It will be much harder to break into small pieces than Iraq.
In fact, the likely result of any overt US action (whether military or diplomatic) will be to
unite back the population behind its leaders against the outside threat. The Iranian
opposition has said it: the best thing the US can do for them is to stay put and wait.
Josh Marshall described the strategy in the Middle East in his April 2003 piece Practice to
Deceive.
[They will raise chaos, terrorism and further wars.] But to the Bush
administration hawks who are guiding American foreign policy, this isn't the
nightmare scenario. It's everything going as anticipated.
In their view, invasion of Iraq was not merely, or even primarily, about getting
rid of Saddam Hussein. ... the administration sees the invasion as only the first
move in a wider effort to reorder the power structure of the entire Middle East.
From the Weekly Standard:
The important thing to note is that the world's largest oil consumer (America) and the
world's fastest growing importer of oil (China), although competing for supplies, now also
realize that they have a shared stake in the stability of Middle East producers, and the
secure movement of oil on the world's sea lanes. Politics may make strange bedfellows, but
a thirst for black gold makes even stranger ones.
Then there is Saudi Arabia, no longer capable of controlling oil prices merely by issuing a
press release about its production intentions. One expert on that country's politics and
industry tells me that Saudi promises to step up output are worthless, since a significant
portion of that country's "reserves" are "political barrels," nonexistent or at best
undeveloped barrels reported to enhance Saudi prestige but not actually quickly extractable.
American defense and intelligence officials until recently assigned a 50:50 probability that
the Saudi regime would survive for the next ten years. They are now quietly speaking in
terms of a mere five years. Which means that there is an even chance that the kingdom's
royal family soon will be calling for help to prevent a bin Laden-like takeover. China and
America will find themselves with no choice but to join forces to protect the Saudi fields
from a takeover that could result in a halt to production. So don't look for China to oppose
steps America might feel necessary to keep Saudi oil moving onto world markets. Russia,
untroubled by the disappearance of a major competitor from the supply side of the oil
market, would be likely to oppose Sino-American intervention.
Exiting Iraq, the title of a new book out from the Cato Institute (cato.org):
The U.S. occupation of Iraq has now passed the one-year mark. With no end in sight, the
Cato Institute convened a special task force of scholars and policy experts to examine U.S.
strategic interests in Iraq and to question the Bush administrationâ€™s intention to â€œstay
as long as necessary.â€•
In this joint statement, the members of the special task force argue that the military
occupation must end. They assert that the presence of troops in Iraq distracts attention from
fighting al-Qaeda and emboldens a new class of terrorists to take up arms against the
United States. Moreover, the occupation is enormously costly for American taxpayers,
exposes our men and women in uniform to unnecessary risks, and undermines attempts to
foster political and economic reform in the region.
Unlike other reports that shy away from stipulating an end date for the U.S. occupation,
Exiting Iraq advocates a military withdrawal by January 1, 2005.
Thousands of Shiites end Najaf siege
Jean-Marc Mojon | Najaf | August 26
AFP - The gates of Najaf's Imam Ali shrine were forced open Thursday by a sea of
weeping and chanting Shiite Muslims, ending a siege of the shrine which had lasted for
days and weeks of fighting with US forces.
Yet as the camp of radical cleric Moqtada Sadr, who led a rebellion against the US-led
forces and the new Iraqi government, went into talks with the country's highest Shiite
authority, the military standoff appeared far from over.
Akir Hassan (63), woke up at 6am (0200 GMT) to heed a call by his spiritual leader Grand
Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to leave his village south of Kut to converge on the revered
mausoleum.
Tears ran down his wrinkled face and his feet barely touched the ground as the elated
crowd squeezed through the gates and into the shrine's courtyard.
He and the others were greeted like heroes by the 300 besieged Sadr militiamen inside.
"This is democracy"
"God is great. This is democracy, this is the new Iraq, this is the greatest defeat we could
have inflicted on the Americans. It's the most beautiful day in my life," he shouted,
hurrying inside the main mausoleum to pray.
"We have been on the road since yesterday. When we reached the area, the national guard
and the Iraqi police tried to prevent us from heading towards the shrine, but there was
nothing they could do," said 20-year-old Hussein Noma, from the town of Amara.
Most of the demonstrators were Sistani supporters.
"It is my duty to follow the orders of the ayatollah and it was the duty of all Muslims to
work for a peaceful solution," said Ali Rasheed, a young man from Kut.
Sadr's Mehdi Army fighters brandished their Kalashnikovs and rocket-propelled grenade
launchers as they watched the seemingly endless flow of marchers flowing into the holy
site...
The Alamo inverted?
hahahahahaha!!
Posted by: Uncle 4cam | August 27, 2004 09:00 AM
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« Newspeak Collection | Main | Dow 6,000 »
Moon of Alabama: Newspeak Collection
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« Losing the Game | Main | Open Off Topics Thread »
August 23, 2004
Newspeak Collection
anti-Iraqi Forces describes nationalistic Iraqi insurgents fighting against a foreign
occupation as in:
11th MEU battles anti-Iraqi forces in An Najaf.
This is my favorite example for the application of Orwellian Newspeak
The basic idea behind Newspeak was to remove all shades of meaning from
language, leaving simple dichotomies (pleasure and pain, happiness and
sadness, good thoughts and thoughtcrimes).
Please help me to collect more examples of contemporary Newspeak. Please include:
● the Newspeak wording
● its real meaning
● a link to and/or a citation of an application
A friend will use the collection in a class about 1984.
Thanks!
Comments
Edward Herman's book "Beyond Hypocrisy" has a lengthy doublespeak dictionary from
1992 which was quite revealing of the Reagan/Bush manipulations, if that would be of any
help to your friend. Herman has also written on newspeak elsewhere.
We are surrounded by it non-stop. One has only to scan any public speech by any public
person on any day to find many many examples of newspeak.
Some may use it more and some less, but has beecome so common as to be un-noticeable
unless you are cocking a keen ear. Or unless it is poorly done which is often.
Like so:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/newspeak_collec.html (1 von 8) [16.11.2004 18:45:39]
Line up a series of convenient "facts" which will forward the agenda. Call them sound bites
if you like. 2) Set up for ridicule any contrary info and the messengers who bear it. 3)
Repeat often. 4) Reward journalists and historians who do the repeating for you. 5)
Threaten those who won't.
Voila, now you have newspeak and the truth is irrelevant.
I should read Herman's book and broaden my perspecive on this, but gawd it is already so
pervasive and no-one seems to mind.
Doublespeak
Actual translation: â€˜You have to respect these holy sites!â€™
Nemo, your link blogged that guy into hyperspace!
Massaging the figures, blurring the picture â€“ cutting a hole in the bottom of the bag
for the bad apples to fall through
Practice routine in human-rights cases
â€¦From the start of the Iraq war in February 2003 through the middle of this
year, 66 service members accused of prisoner abuse or sex assault were given
administrative punishments, including fines and reprimands, compared with
29 sent to courts-martialâ€¦.
Iraq GIs allowed to avoid trials
Mannheim, Germany - A military judge hearing evidence in the alleged
abuse of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison demanded today that
prosecutors speed up the investigation, warning that further delay could derail
the case against at least one of the accused soldiers.
Col. James Pohl expressed displeasure after being told a lone Army criminal
investigator was reviewing thousands of pages of records contained in a secret
computer server at Abu Ghraib.
Turning to the military prosecutor, Pohl said he wanted a report on the server
inquiry available by Dec. 1. But he then added that he would "seriously
revisit" a defense motion to dismiss the case against Spc. Charles Graner if
there was no sign of progress.
"The government has to figure out what they want to do with the
prosecution of this case," the judge said testily...
Army judge in Abu Ghraib hearings warns U.S. to speed up
Of course, not everyone has mastered the carefully nuanced language of 'Doublespeak'
as the following diplomatic exchange reveals...
"....North Korea has described US President George W Bush as an "imbecile"
and a "tyrant that puts Hitler in the shade".
A Foreign Ministry spokesman was responding to comments President Bush
made last week in which he described the North's Kim Jong-il as a "tyrant..."
North Korea likens Bush to Hitler
Respect these holy sites, alternate link.
Posted by: fiumana bella | August 23, 2004 05:33 PM
Doublespeak â€“ Freedom is occupation
"â€¦You cannot speak about a team that represents freedom. We do not have
freedom in Iraq, we have an occupying force. This is one of our most
miserable times," he said.
"Freedom is just a word for the media. We are living in hard times, under
occupationâ€¦."
Weâ€™re no symbol of freedom, Iraq coach says
Newspeak: Anti-American
In the months immediately after Sept 11 2001, this meant, to its users, any sentiment other
than 100% "U-S-A! U-S-A!" approval of this country, its foreign policy, its history, and its
right to strike militarily almost anywhere on the globe.
Googling Instapundit and his crowd in that time would turn up more links than I care to
think about.
Newspeak: "pro-life"
In the debate about abortion. The idea is that those on the other side of the issue are "pro
death", i.e., murderers. That the term does not really mean its users value all life is clear:
many of them support the death penalty, for example. (And, yes, there are
anti-choice-to-have-an-abortion Catholics who are consistently 'pro life' in a real sense, but
half the movement, and the driving force of it as a political effort, are fundamentalist
Protestants who are anything but 'for life'.
Those who call themselves 'pro life' are opposed to women's right and ability to decide
when and whether they will bear children, including whether to carry a fertilized egg to
term. They value the life of a zygote over the life of a woman.
Newspeak: bad guy
Used by all levels of the U.S. military, grunt to general, to refer to those they are in the
process of hunting down, killing, capturing (and abusing). It has a childish ring that is
designed to take the mind off these actions, and to justify them if they should float into
view anyway.
If wars were fought only to defend against actual attacks, the dignified and time-honored
term 'enemy' would serve. (Even though the word has in its way served as an early
beachhead of Newspeak). But because wars are now fought to "bring democracy" and
"keep the peace", it's useful to have a simpler, less specific word.
'Enemy' has a way of raising the question... whose enemy?
Bernard, for some prime examples tell your friend to check out our Republican Congress.
Here's one for starters: Healthy Forest Initiative.
Plus the military can always be relied on for oldies-but-goodies like surgical strike or
collateral damage -- which, strangely enough, often seems to accompany the surgical
strike.
And let's not forget the recently-coined Newspeak for ex-BOSS thugs hired as mercenaries
in Iraq: Contractors. Isn't the homey image of guys wearing plaid shirts and jeans with tape
measures clipped to their belts much more pleasant than the reality?
Willaim lutz Lutz not only kicks ass, he shows excactly how to decode double speak and if
I am correct talks of a form of deception called "mobile truths" which is a form all to itself;
if you haven't yet, pick up a copy of The New Doublespeak: Why No One Knows What
Anyone's Saying Anymore. William Lutz is professor of English at Rutgers University and
author of the book The New Doublespeak: Why No One Knows What Anyone's Saying
Anymore and other books and essays/articles. While this is an academic book it is by no
means dry he has a chapter in it that shows that Republican strategist Newt Gingrich's
campaign committee, GOPAC, published a handbook for Republican candidates. One
section was titled "Language, a Key Mechanism of Control." Please note his use of the
term "control." Gingrich recommended that Democrats always be described in words such
as anti-flag, anti-family, anti-child, bizarre, cheat, coercion, corrupt, decay, destructive,
devour, hypocrisy, intolerant, liberal, lie, pathetic, selfish, sick, they and them, and even
traitors. Such people are not to be reasoned with, they are to be crushed. When there was a
loud protest, Gingrich later withdrew the "traitors" term. It is a sign of the continuing
degeneration of political debate that DeLay and other Radical Right draft dodgers have
shown no such hesitations.For Republicans, Gingrich urged continual association with
words such as care(ing), children, choice/choose, citizen, commitment, common sense,
courage, crusade, dream, family, freedom, liberty, moral, peace, pro- (issue): flag, children,
environment, reform, strength, success, tough, truth, vision, we/us/our. Dichotomize, then
seize the good words, and people find it difficult to think clearly about what you are saying.
here's More...
Also, In a guideline written for Republican members of Congress, Frank Lutz, (Not to be
confused w/William Lutz) Republican pollster and tactician, writes "Women consistently
respond to the phrase 'for the children' regardless of the context.
From balancing the budget to welfare reform, 'for the children' scores highest of all
arguments offered. Therefore, rather than creating a 'Compassion Agenda,' Republicans
need to create a communication framework that involves children . . . ." (Deborah Tannen,
Let Them Eat Words, American Prospect, Sept. 2003) It is no accident that Bush referred to
children 11 times in a speech on tax cuts and in a speech on "faith based initiatives" -- the
count was up to 35.
and my all time favorite is "group think"
to blame "everybody" for the intellegence failures,
is to blame "nobody" for the intellegence failures.
so clean, so elegant, so invisible.
Ding, ding, ding. Bravo! anna missed,
you are running a horse length a head in my mind, with that brilliant post! thus far...
@ anna missed,
Brilliant post!
Ding, ding, ding...you are a horse length ahead so far on this topic.
Bravo! great post.
Newspeak - A few bad apples = the wider societyâ€¦
â€œâ€¦Afterward we look back, amazed. Did I really do that? Believe that?
Fall for that bit of propaganda? Think that all our enemies were evil? That all
our nationâ€™s acts were good?â€¦â€•
Abu Ghraib: Ordinary folk or human aberrations?
Question - Doublethink, Newspeak, Groupthink â€“ who do you think you are kidding?
Answer â€“ Yourself, every timeâ€¦
grrrr, sorry about the double, but since I here, two things to keep in mind about what's is
going on as I have posted elsewhere, as well as maybe here, what we have today is not
propagada but Prop-agenda. An article in the Guardian by multimedia artist/electronic
music pioneer/oblique strategist Brian Eno, concerning propaganda, spin and other issues
relating to the current situation in Iraq.
In it, he discusses the covert manner in which government and media create public opinion
through bias, euphemisms, and skewed storytelling.
Eno explains the power of words and images to create a reality that serves the agendas of
those in power. Not a new concept for a lot of you out there, but interesting reading
nonetheless. PROP-AGENDA is Not the control of what we think, but the control of what
we think about. Think about that for a moment. Also something that I think has gone down
the memeory hole is the so-called Â« Proactive, Pre-emptive Operations Group Â» called
(P2OG) In other words -- and let's say this plainly, clearly and soberly, so that no one can
mistake the intention of Rumsfeld's plan -- the United States government is planning to use
"cover and deception" and secret military operations to provoke murderous terrorist attacks
on innocent people.
Newspeak â€“ Torture = Interrogation
In an argument before a Federal Appeals Court, the U.S. Government once again tries to
narrow the meaning of torture
Defining and redefining torture
@Uncle $cam
And does this not bring us to (alluded to by alabama &Pat) what the endgame in Iraq will
bring?The end could be near, and there is one giant silence everywhere, except here.
More on weasel words
â€¦.War is waged by cowards. Brave men and women will die, but first, chicken-hearted
politicians and journalists must start the stampede. When the war wagon rolls, no one in a
position to slow it down will throw his body beneath its wheels, even if he harbors doubts
or retains a shred of professional skepticismâ€¦
Big media failed us on Iraq
The media's willingness to maintain a form of silence and, with a few honorable exceptions,
resist offering anything approaching consistent, ongoing, independent and objective
reporting and assessment is still a form of failure that prolongs the conflict that the same
media helped to birth.
out on a limb, maybe
when the market takes the big dive down
when Iraq takes the big dive down
will the pundits take the big dive down
i should think so
I posted that link previously, but here it is again:
Imagine the reaction to telling people "patriotism is psychotic."
George Lakoff is a professor of linguistics and cognitive science at the
University of California, Berkeley; an expert in "framing," a
communications ploy that defines the terms of debate, or defines a "frame"
confining the extent of ideas available to influence a discussion. Republicans
are masters of framing. As described by Orwell in his book 1984, the
fundamental purpose of controlling the use of language (keeping
discussion within a frame) is to limit the scope of thought; this is essential
to social control. When you respond to an argument by using the terms
defined by the framers, you have already lost. Lakoff uses the example of
"tax relief," used by Republicans to insinuate that taxes are an inherent
affliction. Lakoff suggests that Democrats (and any opponents of the
Republicans) counter the "tax relief" excuse of relieving affliction, as a cover
for enriching the wealthy, by discussing the "dues" we owe as a patriotic
duty to support freedom, democracy, and the American way.
I think there are some fine examples here.
"Thanks to this new efficient way of doing business all sorts of changes have
been wrought by Mr. Bush which, appearing to do one thing, when explained
are shown to do something quite different. That is, of course, the beauty of
explanations â€” they cause things to be different from what they appear to
be."
@Uncle $cam
Thanks for the Brian Eno tip - here is the link:
Lessons in how to lie about Iraq - The problem is not propaganda but the relentless control
of the kind of things we think about by Brian Eno
"Death tax" in Newspeak is really a tax on large wealthy estates at the time of inheritance (I
think the limit is soon to be $3 million).
"Abuse" is Newspeak for torture.
(I'm tired. I'll link later. These are easy peasy to find.)
Posted by: SusanG | August 24, 2004 09:55 PM
thanks, b, I put that link in my post but it didn't come out for some reason, and I got caught
up in other things before rechecking...
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« Losing the Game | Main | Open Off Topics Thread »
Moon of Alabama: Losing the Game
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« Benign Social Genocide | Main | Newspeak Collection »
August 22, 2004
Losing the Game
Looking at the Sunday Talk Shows guest list, the Swift Boat theme is played on. Why has
the Kerry campaign not been firing against this with full wrath?
Kerry calls on Bush to stop personal attacks is just lame, as are attempts to stop the smear
ads through courts. The general election theme is about leading and defending the people
through offence, not about Âćalling on BushÂ´ and Â´going to courtÂ´.
Kerry should accuse Bush personally of smearing all veterans and all current soldiers.
BushÂ´s campaign supports and facilitate denying the correctness of military records for
achieved medals. There is enough material to make a direct Bush campaign involvement
play in the media.
The method used on this issue is a hallmark of RoveÂ´s operations. There will be more,
much more like this coming in the next weeks. If the Kerry campaign does not learn how to
counter such stuff immediately, they lose their defence. If the campaign does not learn to
attack with the same ruthlessness, they lose their offence too.
In this election losing either the offence or the defence is sufficient to lose the game.
Comments
Hitler is said to be a genius of politics. That alone should tell us what politics really is. Wilhelm Reich, "Mass Psychology of Fascism", 1933
b - losing with one "o" throughout...
Bernhard, why must you assume that the Kerry campaign "needs to learn how to counter"?
If you're reading 2004 in the light of 2000, or of 2002, you're point would likely pertain if
you also established that the folks running those campaigns are running this one. Well, are
they? I rather doubt it, myself. We know that both sides measure the slightest things, and
calculate the timing and force of their moves very precisely--with surprising results now
and then. Think of 1998, and of all the advice that Clinton was getting from
everyone--advice to resign, even? He ignored it for a reason, viz., he knew things about the
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/loosing_the_gam.html (1 von 17) [16.11.2004 18:45:46]
game that ordinary people don't think of. He then proceeded to win the '98 election,
decapitate the Republican leadership, ride out the impeachment comedy, and take over the
budget and legislative process. It impressed the hell out of me, I can tell you that!
US bombing leaves 75 dead in Kut
US planes hit militias near Najaf shrine
Two Iraqis killed, 11 wounded in US air strikes in Fallujah
Ninety-three years of bombing the Arabs
Kerry urges Bush to demand attacks stop
Oh, I see â€“ for one glorious moment I thoughtâ€¦.oh, never mind.
Thanks, anonymous for the correction. Please keep them coming. Bad sign if even such
simple things escape my eyes?
Kerry has an ad on tv now that re-runs a Bush/McCain debate in the 2000 primary.
At that time, Bush tried to smear McCain's war record.
McCain said something like Bush should be ashamed.
This is a great advertisement, because it shows that Bush is a low-down no good pig who
will say anything to win.
In addition, the Chicago Trib has a guy who has finally come forward, after thirty years and
repeated attempts to get him to comment, to say that Bush is full of shit.
In addition, there have been numerous editorials in various papers calling Bush's pigness
because of this attack.
The New York Times ran an article in Friday's paper showing the Bush campaign sources
for money for the scumboat veterans, noted the sudden change in some of their testimony,
noted the testimony conflicted with the govt's own reports, as well as the reports of people
actually involved.
The Daily Show did a GREAT segment on this issue on Thurs-ish which reamed the
scumboat veterans too.
The Boston Globe has a very good piece putting this sort of political smear into another
frame...asking the reaction if Clinton had made similiar claims about Dole...
So, all in all, I think this whole scheme to smear Kerry's character has and will continue to
backfire bigtime.
Posted by: fauxreal | August 22, 2004 07:57 PM
I wonder how it feels, to wake up, and find your own military service, and your own
personal integrity
Laying in bed there, butt naked, with Paula Jones?
I still have a job to care about all this. Kerry probably did exaggerate his military
'successes' and he's been caught and, though I loathe George W with a passion, I don't
really care if he beats Kerry or loses. The people of South and Central America will have
an easier time of it under George W. Kerry is capable of doing something really vicious to
Cuba and he shows no sign of giving a better chance to Iraquis. As for the poor old
Palestinans they're f****d no matter which one wins. The citizens of the US that aren't
having to be the sharp end of this militarism may be slightly better off under Kerry. I don't
have a great deal of sympathy for them at the moment however I'm reserving that for the
victims of their state's aggression and let's face it the worse it gets for them the sooner they
may actually do something about it rather than just replace one self obsessed millionaire
misanthrope with another.
Posted by: Debs in '04 | August 23, 2004 02:15 AM
Ouch! Dirtier and dirtier...
"...Senator Kerry carries shrapnel in his thigh as distinct from President Bush
who carries two fillings in his teeth from his service in the Alabama National
Guard, which seems to be his only time that he showed up," John Podesta,
former chief of staff in the Clinton White House, said on ABC's "This Week...."
Dole questions Kerry's Vietnam wounds
Oh, I see â€“ for one glorious moment I thoughtâ€¦.oh, never mind.
***
Oh wellâ€¦me tooâ€¦stupid meâ€¦
---------------Watching a glimpse of this adds against Kerryâ€™s Vietnam â€œrecordâ€• especially
about his anti Vietnam stand after he came back, this came to mind:
Nowadays USA and itâ€™s people are so bloody twisted that they will allow anything,
ANYTHING but TRUTH to come out.
They NEVER ever publicly not to mention officially said SORRY to Vietnamese (or
Indians for that matter) for killing ohh who knows how many of them in an unjust, cruel
and needless occupation of their sovereign country. Thatâ€™s why we keep seeing it all
over again and again.
They never acknowledged CRIMES that USA Army had committed in Vietnam or
anywhere else. Thatâ€™s why we are seeing more of the same all over again.
There is one simple thing that is damned in USA and thatâ€™s THE TRUTH.
â€œWhat ever you do donâ€™t let it outâ€•â€¦They even made it a matter of entertainment
industry making it look like a fantasy.
Now what we expect here. Kerry was young and brave enough to come out with a truth
about USA Army crimes in Vietnam at that time. But he is a politician now. God forbid
eventuality that he can come out now decades after Vietnam and say â€œYes, I said so
because it was TRUTH. We need to take a shame for what we/ve doneâ€• . He would never
have a chance to become president. And you know Germans still keep apologizing and
paying for their ancestors crimes. Whatâ€™s so special about Americans except that they
are not military beaten (yet).
In the atmosphere where truth is a No 1 peoples enemy how the hell we expect anything to
be better then it is.
I am just getting sicker and sicker every bloody day with every bloody news worse that one
weâ€™ve heard yesterdayâ€¦
vbo; will drink a double on that
Debs in'04; while some of what these boat people have to say may carry a small vestige of
truth, it belies a larger truth. My experience in VN would show that yes, purple hearts were
awarded (after major combat) upon the acknowledgement of any bodily harm during that
combat,a scratch or brain damage, if you got hurt you could get one, if you wanted one.
Secondly, combat medals are awarded not applied for or lobbied for. If some "beyond the
call of duty" should occur during combat, the event is reported to the CO,checked,and
moved up the chain, documented, and awarded both with medal and documentation. As
anyone could imagine, in a combat situation no one is really taking notes, so it is
understandable that the recollection of that combat might generate different perspectives on
what was really happening. These should be vetted prior to any award, but shit happens. I
was awarded a medal in VN after an operation and the documentation was so disjointed and
discombobulated, I was'nt sure it was even for me, but, this is the record, and the fact- and
after the fact all else is opinion. In Kerrys case, no one challenged the fact, the
documentation, the record. After 35 years, to now cobble together a little group of
likeminded, embittered (about Kerry's turn against the war), and, republican financed,
willing to sell their soul to the Devil for a spot on Larry King, is pure Roveian custom
made (for the media) mesmerizing whirling dervish that will spin and spin and spin with no
resolution.....ever. Its just an opinion writ large and promoted, like the Hindenberg......was.
After 35 years, to now cobble together a little group of likeminded, embittered (about
Kerry's turn against the war), and, republican financed, willing to sell their soul to the Devil
for a spot on Larry King, is pure Roveian custom made (for the media) mesmerizing
whirling dervish that will spin and spin and spin with no resolution.....ever. Its just an
opinion writ large and promoted, like the Hindenberg......was.
@Anna Missed:
So well said, it bears repeating. So I just did.
Posted by: The Village Idiot | August 23, 2004 08:08 AM
@vbo hear! hear! Valdas Anelauskas identified self-criticism as "that most un-american of
activities." The American Dream has nothing to do w/ reality. Honest truth is too painful, as
it would instantly condemn all who fell for and participated in the illusion. There is no
christianity in a country that cannot recognize brotherhood. There is no freedom in a nation
where more than 2 million imprisoned and everyday life is subject to so many regulations
and unnatural laws. Greed won out over the ideas of enlightenment. Money became the
only religion that mattered. Whatever Kerry may have once been and stood for, the current
version (replete w/ 5 homes and other luxury objects) will never again speak out against
racist tyranny or institutional money-laundering for he would only indite himself. Like you
say, truth is the enemy. I think that in the case of the USA, it goes right back to the very
beginning. As Anelaukas said, "You can't live happy on stolen land".
The white man does not understand the Indian for the reason that he does not
understand America. He is too far removed from its formative processes. The
roots of the tree of his life have not yet grasped the rock and soil. The white
man is still troubled with primitive fears; he still has in his consciousness the
perils of this frontier continent, some of its fastnesses not yet having yielded to
his questing footsteps and inquiring eyes. The man from Europe is still a
foreigner and an alien.
-Chief Luther Standing Bear, "Land of the Spotted Eagle"
"let's face it the worse it gets for them the sooner they may actually do something about it
rather than just replace one self obsessed millionaire misanthrope with another."
Well, seriously, you don't expect that a majority of the US people will actually ever do this?
That is, unless half the people has already died from their insane policies, when it'll be way
too late to change them and save the nation. Germans needed 6 mio dead and the
destruction of nearly every city to see Hitler's folly for what it was. One can hope the
Americans will wake up before that, but how early before remains to be seen.
vbo: You don't really expect any excuse for the genocide of the native Indians, do you? I
mean, it would be admitting the sheer enormity of what has been done for literally
centuries, and most people can't really face such a guilt. Beside, the only way to make real
amends would basically to pack up things and take the boat back home for "commie"
Europe.
the only way to make real amends would basically to pack up things and take the boat back
home
Ward Churchill refutes this argument in his essay "I Am An Indigenist." Search on both
instances of the phrase "Great Fear."
Medals...
What sly SOB invented that carrot milkshake way back in history?
And what manner of Pavlovian beings slurped it up then and slurp it up now?
Human beings are funny.
Create a gold medal and surround it with enough hype and you can get folk to spend all
their waking time--from infancy--swimming back and forth in a chlorine-infested lap pool.
See Fido swim. Fido swims fast. Good Fido. Good boy. Fido win swimming medal some
day. Swim fast Fido!
Now some angry little white boy named Hamm...who apparently has spent his entire life
swinging on bars...is pouting cause the world knows he got HIS gold medal unfairly.
I feel for him. Poor creature. Really I have empathy for him. I was young once too. I know
exactly what's going on in his brain: "Mommy Mommy somebody took my gold
medal...waaa...waaaa...waaaa"
And now--Kerry and Bush and Dole and all manner of Vets are having a food fight over
war medals.
War medals...
Which were probably created by some Cheneyesque General long ago, who needed a new
way to entice fodder before the canons.
Funny.
Funny...how all those medals end up in a shoe box in a closet somewhere.
Funny too how some things end up in the long run exactly where they belong.
Oh come on Tony go get your shiny medal.
You earned it.
Medals for bravery or participation in campaigns can be traced back to the ancient
Egyptians and Romans, where plaques of brass or copper were awarded for outstanding
feats of bravery. And it sounds like medals are closely linked w/ orders, though I do recall
reading that the use of war medals, maybe specifically in the US, arose as a way to stem the
problems encountered from the earlier established practice of letting the combatants loot
and fight over the spoils of war. Give 'em a shiny chunk of medal & sell 'em on an idea.
[recipe]
@Koreyel
Such a shame, I want to see Tony on the podium with the laurel leaves and taking the
medal from the chimp and grinning that awful grin.
The Guardian on this issue:
There are three things we can learn from this. First, there is no level to which
Republicans will not stoop to besmirch a character, belittle an issue or
befuddle the electorate. Second, there is no level to which the Democrats will
not stoop to attempt to neutralise these attacks. And third, that the Republicans
will always win in this race to the bottom because so much less is expected of
them and, when it comes to muck-slinging, they have no qualms about getting
their hands dirty.
Wounded by friendly fire
End of the game? (Part One)
Bush says 'that ad' attacking Kerry should stop
End of the game No, they just started and the damage was huge. Who knows (except Rove)
what the next theme will be? Maybe they will play the ketchup connection again the big
money guy Kerry.
Whatever it is the campaign was slow to response to this attack. They must take the
initiative if they want to win.
Bush will win.
Bush = Kerry
America, land of the free.
b real: Hmm, in which way does it refute my point? I wasn't fearmongering but stating the
fact that the whole conquest and colonisation was wrong and criminal from the first day,
and that in absolute terms every single country in America is illegitimate, and keeping them
the way they are, in absolute ethics, would at least partly justify the crime. Of course this
also goes with Australia, New Zealand, parts of Southern Africa, and other areas of this
planet.
All in all, really good article, which ties in well with Deanander's post in the Annex of 10
days ago.
Frankly, anyone who states that Earth has an absolute carrying capacity for humans, and it's
probably around 1.5 billion, is just fine with me since it's also my own personal opinion it's also very probably that Americas never got to the maximum population before the
conquest and genocide, since it was at most at 100 mio, and probably between 60 and 80.
Of course, he could've simply stated that if we do not massively reduce population on our
own, Nature will see that the genocide of mankind gets full circle - and when people will
die of famine, war and disease, who will they blame for it?
In fact, if you really want to know, I've actually made some estimations for various areas
and continents, though taking a bit into account the current inbalance between Eurasia and
the rest of the planet comparatively less densely populated, since a bit of food trade can go
on to some limited extent, and my range for US population is between 22 and 50 mio basically, better go below 50 mio since it would require a very extensive use of land which
wouldn't allow much pristine wilderness to survive when it could otherwise be turned into
farmland and pastures (thoug they'd be sustainable in the long-term).
Oh, and even if French students used "Be realistic; demand the impossible!â€•, the original
one is from the Che, who may have picked it up from some native, or just was in the right
mood.
His quote of Chief Seattle is spot on. My friends, the time of punishment is coming for
mankind. Grab your popcorn and enjoy the next 50 years, it'll be a hell of a ride.
Credits to Uncle $cam for this one posted over at Whiskey Annex:
Bonnie and Clyde Killed in Louisiana Brown Brothers and Harriman Gangs Hit
Another Big One Up East
Fairly serious actually. Has a crusading senator from Massachusetts and a future president
from Texas in it too.
Bernhard: Truth be said, I've always firmly said that the Left should never let his "good
morals" get in the way when fighting to oust the right from its (always) illegitimate grip on
power, and should fight as dirty if required. Basically, history shows that you tend to win
when you use forst ways than your enemy - or, more realistically, that and technology are
the 2 main components of victory in war. Basically one of the times where I agree with
Huntington: "the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion
but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence." This also means that usually
the Left can't keep power because they play nice with the right when it is in power, extends
a peaceful hand, and gets bitten back. Any scholar would've noticed that the very few
examples of a prolonged "leftist" rule can be found in USSR and Maoist China.
Yet in this case, I can't help to read Steve Gilliard and think that he may be right and that
Kerry knew this was coming and is using his own personal tactic. Such attacks were
coming, and it's possible Kerry forced Bush to attack him on this issue and not on others,
because it was the issue in which Kerry's advatage vs Bush was the biggest (war hero vs
deserter). Hinting that Bush is a coward, making it low key so that the average guy won't
fully understand but that Bush can't help seeing a personal attack, can work to the point W
will go nuts and make mistakes. Because, let's face it, Bush making some big mistake that
can't be spinned as anything else is the only way of having an election that can't be stolen,
because no one would ever believe Bush could win after such a huge gaffe. Bush losing it
during the TV debate would be the best thing I could ever imagine, and I'd pay solid money
to see it happening :)
@cp
Josh Marshall also thinks Bush is a coward
The reason, as we said earlier, is that the president is a coward -- a fact for
which this dust-up constitutes merely an example. And as we'll discuss in a
post later this evening, President Bush's moral cowardice -- not his physical
cowardice or bravery, of which we know little and which is simply a side issue
-- is the essence of this campaign.
Dole thinks you need to spend time in a hospital, getting a blood transfusion, to earn a
purple heart. From action in Anzio. He thinks you have to be Dole to earn a purple heart.
He'd never give out purple hearts himself, because he's the one who's earned it....What a
narcissistic lunatic! It's too late for this guy to grow up; just try not to crush his golf cart
with your Harley!
@Alabama:
Dole is and always has been a Republican hatchetman, partisan tool. Does pretty good with
only one arm. But even I could not believe he said what he said yesterday.
He is what we call in our community, a "useful idiot".
Posted by: The Village Idiot | August 23, 2004 06:48 PM
You Can Report, but We Will Decide - The conservative media's handling of the Swift boat
dispute is a case study in bias.
A report by ABC this morning of the pending Gitmo "trial" of Australian David Hicks.
Listen or read the transcript.
@Clueless Joe
Hmm, in which way does it refute my point?
I was responding to the stmt that "the only way" is to pack up & leave, which, having
followed your other posts, I didn't take as "fearmongering" and why I decided not to
address my comment to anyone in particular. However, in a literal reading of that specific
stmt, it is an argument which is brought up so many times to sabotage more detailed
discussion on this topic and one I am always eager to help debunk. The people who most
need to think about these matters tend to automatically close their mind when it is presented
simply as all occupiers must leave. I summoned Ward's essay as a solid refutation of that
particular line of thought and a great resource for addressing what is to be done. Hope you
didn't take my post as a personal affront. Sounds like we're of similar mind on this issue.
"The animals now also learned that Snowball had never--as many of them had believed
hitherto--received the order of "Animal Hero, First Class." This was merely a legend which
had been spread some time after the Battle of the Cowshed by Snowball himself. So far
from being decorated, he had been censured for showing cowardice in battle. Once again
some of the animals heard this with a certain bewilderment, but Squealer was soon able to
convince them that their memories had been at fault."
~George Orwell, Animal Farm 1946
@koreyel
Powerful quote............... says it all.
Kerry - Bush are sparring about Vietnam because:
1) Americans are very attached to the past (as their present is hardly glorious, and they have
always referred to the â€˜we saved the worldâ€™ script..)
2) Vietnam is relevant, if old; so it stimulates discussion, etc.
3) It exagerates their differences and gives them a topic for spiteful attacks
4) It camouflages the fact that they agree about Iraq (that is mostly Kerryâ€™s motivation,
very much in his interests...)
--Kerry prefers his pro-war stance to be obscured, and counts on voters knowing of his
anti-war stance after Vietnam. He cannot condemn the present war(s) so prays for his past
aura to do the job. He shuts up because he fears loosing anti-war voters, who are the
majority (?).
--Bush, as the more rabidly belligerent candidate, cannot bear it that Kerry should be put
forward as a better soldier, so must attack, even if the attacks are smelly garbage. He must
furnish arguments to keep his convinced voters on board.
(See also Clueless Joe above, â€œ ... it's possible Kerry forced Bush to attack him on this
issue and not on others, because it was the issue in which Kerry's advatage vs Bush was the
biggestâ€•...)
5) And so both candidates prefer non-issues to the real ones. It is all tiresome obfuscation.
Double, triple speak.
CP: Bush will win.
Bush = Kerry
America, land of the free.
...Yes.
Blackie:
Americans are very attached to the past (as their present is hardly glorious, and they have
always referred to the â€˜we saved the worldâ€™ script..)
I agree.
This "we saved the world" script is a deep program in most American's wetware.
You hear it all the time in words akin to: "we are the good guys."
That's why some American soldiers still can't figure out why they are being shot at.
From their perspective they really believe they are there to do good by the Iraqi people.
[Of course not all of them. There is a few ugly and angry serviceman who signed up just to
blow stuff up.]
I think this paradigm goes a long way to explaining why more Americans aren't vehemently
oppossed to this vile war.
Deep in their hearts many Americans really believe that some day there is going to be an
Iraqi memorial dedicated to liberating American soldiers. Someday, Americans will be
revered with rose petals...someday...
So it is quite possible that the war-opinions of the American-street are being contaminated
by images of world wars past.
And that really is a shame. Because as individuals Americans are generous and friendly and
rarely offensive.
Unfortunately the current government has taken this nearly native racial memory (that is so
trumpeted in high school history classes) and exploited it on this contemptible war.
Shakespeare wrote: "Your wisdom is consumed by confidence."
That's spot on accurate to the point at hand.
The real question now is:
Not if the United States has any confidence left (that has been shattered), but rather, does
she have any wisdom left to get the hell out of Iraq ASAP?
The Right chooses to talk about the past because it prefers dead people: a quiet
world, a quiet time. The powerful who legitimize their privileges by heredity
cultivate nostalgia. History is studied as if we were visiting a museum. -Edward Galeano
The Skull & Bones house is one such museum. What artifacts did Kerry contribute to the
collection?
@Blackie
4) It camouflages the fact that they agree about Iraq (that is mostly Kerryâ€™s motivation,
very much in his interests...)
--Kerry prefers his pro-war stance to be obscured,
What will Kerry say when the shit his the fan with a general concerted Sunni/Shia uprising
in October. He will have to say something.
b real:
The Skull & Bones house is one such museum. What artifacts did Kerry contribute to the
collection?
You know I really don't think that is Geronimo's skull they have there.
But...on the other hand...
I really believe one could write a book exploring the parallels between Geronimo's
resistance to western enculturation and the current Moslem fundamentalist's resistance.
What are the points in common between bin Laden and Geronimo?
Fascinating stuff there.
Certainly a taboo subject.
But of the three world leaders: bin Laden, Sharon, and Bush...who do you think is the
smartest?
And really when you come right down to it...if IQs could ever really be fairly
measured...just how smart was Geronimo?
@Koreyel
The more I think about Najaf and the final outcome, the more I think that Najaf will be the
Alamo for Sadr.
Wild West = Wild ME.
@Koreyel
Why would you call any of those three "world leaders"? None have a natural mandate. I
don't see too many meaningful parallels between UBL and Geronimo. One took a ride in a
US Presidential parade, the other took us for a ride in a Presidential charade.
Why would you call any of those three "world leaders"? None have a natural mandate.
b real...
These are the three leaders of the three primary religions.
As such they all have a supernatural mandate.
Let's begin with Bush:
I don't think, like so many others that post here and at the former Whiskey bar, that Bush is
excessively stupid.
I think he knows exactly what he is: a Christian fundamentalist.
His religion is NOT play pretend. He really did kick his booze and drug habit via Jesus. He
governs from that perspective. Everything in our current government goes through him
from that angle. He is definitely in charge. Others, like Cheney, are shrewd enough to play
their various agendas through him accordingly.
Bush's most fervent base are the fundamentalist of America. They would die for him.
As for bin Laden...he is pure...pure...pure...Islamic fundamentalist. He gave up a life of a
playboy to honor his God. I have never underestimated his persuassion in that part of the
world. He may not be their stated leader...but there are few fundamentalists and middle of
the road Muslims who aren't secretly happy with his blow to America. They too...would die
for him.
As for Sharon... well... he has a healthy apetite for land and food. Agreed?
Where I am fundamentally coming from on all this...and I am loathe to quote Will and
Ariel Durant again...(but they put it into words before I did)... is that it is the extremes that
are in the driver's seat of humanity:
History in the large is the conflict of minorities; the majority applauds the victor an
supplies the human material of social experiment.
And then later this:
"Hence most governments have been oligarchies--ruled by a minority, chosen either by
birth, as in aristocracies, of by a religious organization, as in theocracies, or by wealth, as
in democracies. It is unnatural (as even Rousseau saw) for a majority to rule, for a
majority can seldom be organized for united and specific action, and a minority can."
So what I am saying to you here is that the Clintonian view of things: government from the
center is only superficially accurate.
What we are seeing right now instead is government from the edges.
A battle of edges.
With all three edges pushing hard and viciously; trying to polarize the great mass of
moderates.
In other words...what if you had to choose?
What if you HAD TO side with the Arab world, the Christian world, or the Jewish world?
I think these three world leaders are doing just that: they are polarizing the planet.
Consciously in bin Laden's case.
Semi-consciously in Sharon's case.
Unconsciously in Bush's case.
But...case after case after case....this is where the world is being lead.
~~~~~~~
As far as my Geronimo comments go:
I was thinking of the Apache as vermin to be exterminated. For better or worse that's pretty
much the dominant thought concerning the Al-Qaeda. Or as Billmon had it: The
Untermenschen.
Here is snip from a Geronimo site:
Geronimo was the leader of the last American Indian fighting force formally to capitulate
to the United States. Because he fought against such daunting odds and held out the
longest, he became the most famous Apache of all. To the pioneers and settlers of Arizona
and New Mexico, he was a bloody-handed murderer and this image endured until the
second half of this century.
Let me make some substitutions to the above snip:
Osama was the leader of the last Islamic fundamentalist fighting force formally to
capitulate to the United States. Because he fought against such daunting odds and held out
the longest, he became the most famous Islamist of all. To the citizens and clergyman of
America and Britain, he was a bloody-handed murderer and this image endured until the
second half of this century.
Here is my question to you and others:
Do you suppose Yale's Skull and Bones would--100 years from now--similarly like to
pretend to have Osama's skull on the shelf next to Geronimo's?
[Aside: I've been a real writing hog for today...tomorrow and the rest of tonight...I am
going to shut up and read you guys.]
Gary North at lewrockwell.com:
"There is enough conflicting testimony on both sides of the 'Kerry the non-hero' story to
muddy the waters. Conflicting testimony tends to confuse people. The confusion over how
Bush differs from Kerry on the Iraq war is already gumming up the works. With Howard
Dean, it would have been clear: pro vs. con.
"Kerry bet too much on his war record. He should have known he was vulnerable. But, on
the whole, people are going to believe the official record, and the official record says that
Kerry won the medals.
"What nobody is talking about on TV is Kerry's record as a trigger-happy man with a
machine gun. Everyone is talking about what he did under fire, or non-fire. Nobody is on
TV talking about Kerry's readiness to shoot on sight. Nobody has gone to anyone
associated with Zumwalt's office to see why it was that Kerry was allowed to get out of
command so fast.
"So, I did. The story I got was that Zumwalt was only too happy to get him out of there.
Rumors are cheap, of course, although I trust my source. In any case, nobody is going to
score points with the voters with a story that Kerry shot first and asked no questions
afterward. After all, this is the tactical basis of our campaign in Iraq. Democrats don't want
to hear the story, and Republicans are going to vote for the Commander-in-Chief, whose
readiness to bomb civilians is not a matter of rumor.
"Poll numbers will rise and fall as November draws near. The fact is, the public is divided.
The public has been divided since 2000. I think the Swifty story will have played out by
November, unless there is an ace in the hole by the anti-Bush Swifties â€“ one that they can
get funded and run as a 100% independent ad, thereby not breaking the outrageous law that
prohibits campaign-funded attack ads in the last 60 days of the campaign. Sixty days
without the First Amendment is only the beginning."
The real question now is:
Not if the United States has any confidence left (that has been shattered), but rather, does
she have any wisdom left to get the hell out of Iraq ASAP?
The answer is: no.
When faced by the choice between radical escalation and packing up and going home, we
really will decide to escalate. Didn't the mysterious Mr. Zarqawi say that the Americans
and the Brits will not leave?
How many innings will this game go? A bloody effing lot of them.
@koreyel
These are the three leaders of the three primary religions.
Sorry, can't follow you down that path. So let's try the Germonimo thread.
I was thinking of the Apache as vermin to be exterminated. For better or worse that's pretty
much the dominant thought concerning the Al-Qaeda.
To distill that the dominant thrust of US imperialism is to "exterminate the brutes" would
be a more helpful observation. Whether the victim is the American Indian, Mexican,
Philippino, German, Vietnamese, or Arab, the SOP does not alter. Attempting to equate the
various Apache tribes w/ AQ is another false lead and casts aside a much more critical
reality. Germonimo is one of the "legends" and much of which passes for historical fact in
the dominant culture is strictly self-serving, justifying genocide and expansion. History is
no doubt shaped by the interests of the powerful. Perhaps UBL is indeed being crafted into
another "legend" and one which the public easily buys into, slight-of-hand. Your comments
certainly enforce that perception. Just how much this is grounded in reality though is a
topic for future analysts to determine, as UBL's CIA/Bush family connections become
more fully explored.
One hundred years ago this summer Geronimo sat on display in a tiny booth, just a few
miles from where I now reside, carving little novelty wooden bows and arrows and, every
once and a while, getting up to sing and dance at fair-goer request. That was 1904. He was
on a similar circuit throughout the surrounding years. Myth conflicting w/ reality. Caveat
Emptor.
Now let's go one hundred years into the future:
Do you suppose Yale's Skull and Bones would--100 years from now--similarly like to
pretend to have Osama's skull on the shelf next to Geronimo's?
Can we be certain that they are pretending? Removing the heads of Chiefs wasn't exactly
an uncommon practice. The Army doctor Frederick Weedon took "Osceola's head and kept
it as a souvenier in his own home, hanging it occasionally on the bedstead where his sons
slept whenever he wished to punish them for their misbehavior."
Predicting the future by looking to the past, one could reasonably accept that our Great
White Fathers would have a vested interest in using UBL's noggin' to scare the children...
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« Benign Social Genocide | Main | Newspeak Collection »
Moon of Alabama: Benign Social Genocide
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« Teen Sex | Main | Losing the Game »
August 21, 2004
Benign Social Genocide
This from the lead paragraphs of todayâ€™s New York Times: U.S. Now Said to Support
Growth for Some West Bank Settlements.
The Bush administration, moving to lend political support to Prime Minister
Ariel Sharon at a time of political turmoil, ... In the latest modification of
American policy, the administration now supports construction of new
apartments in areas already built up in some settlements, as long as the
expansion does not extend outward to undeveloped parts of the West Bank,
according to the officials...
Translation:
The Bush administration says it will take a 180 degree turn in foreign policy
and snub the road map partners Russia, Europe and the United Nations. The
administration ditches its previous stand on a solution of the Israeli/Palestinian
conflict and sides with Ariel Sharon to significantly extend Israeli settlements
on Palestinian land in West Jordan.
National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice and her director of Middle East
affairs, Elliott Abrams, explained the issue: The President takes this step to
nuture the votes from the Jewish and evangelical electorate for his sharply
contested reelection. Candidate John Kerry, competing for the Jewish votes
and financial support by the Jewish establishment, is not expected to disagree
with Ariel Sharon and President Bush on the Israeli strategy and the expansion
of settlements.
There are two patriotic imperatives for Israel. The first, to take possession of Eretz Israel,
Â´the holy land of its fathersÂ´, contradicts the second, by which the state will always need
a massive Jewish majority. The demographic growth of the Palestinian people does not
allow for a peaceful solution of this contradiction. Short of reenacting a holocaust like
scenario, current Israeli policy, as described by Israeli sociologists like Baruch
Kimmerling, is to achieve a politicide. The application of military, diplomatic and
psychological measures to extinguish the Palestinian people as a political, social and
economical entity.
Major steps have already been taken by destroying the infrastructure that could enable any
Palestinian leader to effectively govern his people. The next steps to be taken now are to
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/benign_social_g.html (1 von 5) [16.11.2004 18:45:50]
further expand the imperial strongholds in West Jordan, build more roads between them to
sectorize Palestinian land and erect walls that restrict Palestinians to four or five
Bantustans. The hope of the Palestinians has to be broken to make them leave West Jordan,
thus: benign social genocide.
Sharon, as any other Israeli politician, knows, that there will never be any US president or
presidency candidate criticising Israel in the months before a contested election. He grips
his chance now to completely bury the road map forever.
Again the SCLM fails to report the facts in straight words and refuses to analyse the real
political coherences.
Comments
We can either re-examine our foreign and defense policy vis a vis Israel and Arab/Muslim
states, or we can resign ourselves to a life of war and terror. It's that simple.
I guess because I am a de facto citizen of the US...I must also be a de facto supporter of all
things pro-Israel.
Of course no one ever asked me my take on all matters Middle-Eastian...
And I guess that is just as well.
Not because my opinion doesn't matter, although it certainly doesn't (especially to Sir Bush
and Lord Cheney)-- but because in the end Israel really doesn't matter.
Which is to say: Israel is doomed as they are presently politically alligned.
They can't build a wall thick enough, high enough or long enough to upset the birth rate
dyanmics.
The only question is...are they going to go out with a boom (nuclear suitcase bomb) or a
whimper (buried beneath a rising Palestianian population explosion¹).
I've got five quid and a pint of England's best cider on them being drowned by the rising
Palestinian population explosion.
[Aside:Man those Arabs love to fuck..don't they? Should we thank God they don't believe
in Western birth control either? Or..parachute drop them our best condoms? Just
wondering....]
By the way...
Regarding all this happy republican talk of Iraq acting as terrorist flypaper...
Isn't it great that Israel is functioning as flypaper for Soviet-inspired suitcase nukes?
Better Israel than us... Right?
Right?
If you don't know the answer to that rhetorical query...try asking it to Lord Cheney or Sir
Bush--provided of course that you could ever get them to condescend to answer any
significant geopolitcal question whatsoever.
Believe me, the Bush/Cheney/Wolfie crowd have already run the various dyanmics through
their best Operations Research Turing machine.
And of course--Israel has also run its own metrics through its own super-stupid
supercomputers.
Ever wonder where every one of Israel's nukes are pointed? All of 'em are aimed at those
stinkin' Muslims right?
Surely they wouldn't aim any of those big-bad-booms at thee or ye???
Oy vey...No way!
I can't imagine Isreal trying to hold the western world hostage as their decaying states
decays both from within and without...
Can you?
No way!
That's why I say...Israel doesn't matter. They are defunct, moribund, incipiently extinct.
Right?
~~~~~~~~~~~
¹
Within Israel the Arab birth rate is twice that of the Jewish birth rate, while the Palestinians
of Gaza have one of the highest birth rates in the world.
The never-ending Israeli conflict serves as flypaper for fundamentalist extremist Jews.
Whenever I hear the American-accented Israeli 'settlers' justifying land theft and genocide
on the basis of being God's chosen people, and BTW justifying oppression of Jewish
women on the same FUNDAMENTALIST religious basis, I am grateful that they all
emigrated from New York and Philadelphia in order to go f***-up some other country
instead. Good riddance!
Now, can we create some foreign refuge for fundamentalist Baptists who feel so oppressed
by the separation of church and state? We've got too many of those here too.
/sarcasm/
benign ?
WTF are you smoking today, bernhard ?
While foriegn policy and Israel are important subjects, something is happening under our
noses that scares the hell out of me.
Lee hamilton on Friday called for greater control for government and a curbing of civil
liberties. There is even talk of check points to travel within the US borders.
This is pure bullshit and just more ways to control the sheeple. Don't roll over for this crap.
I am again going to call my senators and Rep on Monday. Altough, we have Levin and he's
useless as a sore tooth.
Free Press in Israel
Arabs Say U.S. Destroys Hope Over Jewish Settlements
Palestinians, backed by the Arab League, accused the United States on Sunday
of destroying the Middle East peace process after Washington signaled it
could accept some growth of Israeli settlements.
Until now, the United States had demanded a freeze on building all Jewish
settlements on land occupied in the 1967 Middle East war. The communities
are seen as illegal by most of the world, though Israel disputes this.
...
Accepting limited construction within existing settlements could also benefit
President Bush , who is loath to cross Jewish-American voters who back
settlements and other conservative supporters of Israel in the run-up to the
November election.
@jdp
Lee hamilton on Friday called for greater control for government and a curbing of civil
liberties. There is even talk of check points to travel within the US borders.
You got a link for that? I'd like to be able to cite the source when I rip my congresscritters a
new one.
UN agent: Apartheid in territories worse than S. Africa
South African law professor John Dugard, the special rapporteur for the
United Nations on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories,
has written in a report to the UN General Assembly that there is "an apartheid
regime" in the territories "worse than the one that existed in South Africa."
As an example, Dugard points to the roads only open to settlers, from which
Palestinians are banned.
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« Teen Sex | Main | Losing the Game »
Moon of Alabama: Teen Sex
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Other Topics - Open Thread | Main | Benign Social Genocide »
August 20, 2004
Teen Sex
"The thunder of teen sexual activity and dating behavior may signal the lightning of
substance abuse"
Joseph A. Califano, Jr. - Chairman and President of CASA
Google News today finds 243 stories with headlines like:
●
Teen sex, drug link,
●
Teenagers link sex, substance abuse and
●
TeenagerÂ´s Sexual Activity is Tied to Drugs and Drink.
All are based on a study (pdf) released yesterday by the Center on Addiction and Substance
Abuse (CASA) at Columbia University.
The papers base their stories on the press release which hightlights:
SEXUALLY ACTIVE FRIENDS AND DATING PRACTICES CAN
SIGNAL INCREASE IN A TEENâ€™S SUBSTANCE ABUSE RISK - Girls
Who Date Boys Two or More Years Older Likelier to Smoke, Drink, Get
Drunk, and Use Illegal Drugs.
Other key findings on the first few of the studies 70 pages are:
Fifty-six percent of 12- to 17-year olds surveyed report they have friends who
are sexually active. The more sexually active friends a teen has, the likelier
that teen is to smoke, drink or use illegal drugs.
Meme: Sexual activity induces drug usage.
A teen, half or more of whose friends regularly view and download Internet
pornography, is three times likelier to smoke, drink or use illegal drugs than a
teen who has no such friends.
Meme: Internet pornography makes teens use drugs.
CASA surveys have consistently shown that the more often children have
dinner with their parents, the less likely they are to smoke, drink or use illegal
drugs.
Meme: Traditional family life forestalls drug usage.
Such are the Key Findings. Now lets take an unusual dive into the depth of the study:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/political_scien.html (1 von 10) [16.11.2004 18:45:55]
The incidence of sexually active friends ranges from 28 percent of 12-year
olds to 79 percent of 17-year old.
i.e.: When teens grow older they are more likely to have sex and are more likely to smoke
pot.
The prevalence of teens with friends who regularly view and download
pornography from the Internet increases with age, from nearly one-third of
12-year olds (31 percent) to nearly two-thirds of 17-year olds (61 percent).
i.e.: When teens grow older they are more likely to look at porn and are more likely to
drink bear.
As teens get older they are less likely to have dinner with their families on a
regular basis. Thirty-two percent of 17-year olds have dinner seven nights a
week with their families compared to 56 percent of 13-year olds.
i.e.: When teens are younger they are more likely to have family dinner and are less likely
to have sex, to smoke, to drink and to look at porn.
To be fair, the study finds the simple connection. Short before the appendix it says:
Age remains one of the best predictors of risk in the CASA survey: as a teen
gets older, his or her substance-abuse risk increases.
But the well researched New York Times, as 242 other newspapers, would never print such
banalities. That may well fit the intentions of Columba Bush, First Lady of Florida, and of
some other boardmembers of CASA.
Comments
Addendum:
Unlike other surveys, the one by the Columbia group did not ask teens about
their own sexual activity, but asked them to estimate how many of their
friends were sexually active. It was conducted this way because the ethical
review board that oversees the center would not approve a direct question
USA Today: Survey: Teen sex, marijuana, alcohol use all linked
@B:
There's probably a film clip in the making.
Something like Beaver Cleaver admonishing the youth from his cell on death row, about
the insidious dangers lurking in the world, and how he was brought low by them.
"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."
Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BCE)
"Oh, we got trouble, my friends,
We got trouble right here in River City,
Gotta figure out a way to keep the young ones
moral after school."
Prof. Harold Hill, River City, Iowa (early 20th C.)
They forgot the next logical (ahem) step: when teens look at porn, drink and do drugs, they
turn into twentysomething EVILDOERS!!
Posted by: NEPAJim | August 20, 2004 02:05 PM
Is it just because the weather's getting warmer, is it just me--or has there been an alarming
amount of reporting on how sexual purity of various sorts is intrinsically related to the
health of body politic in the last six months?
I remember reading in ideological-critical books about the British reaction to the French
revolution (Ronald Paulson and David Simpson leap to mind) that the
counter-revolutionary movement saw the proto-feminists as the most profound political
threat of the time--and while the arguments made sense, I didn't quite believe it. Then.
Now, it's starting to seem like controlling sexuality is at the center of the entire ideological
war, as the Christian and Islamic fundamentalists have positioned it.
I know it's not the only element of human life that the fundamentalists would like to
control, but it seems to be emerging as a horrible point of convergence between the two.
Has anyone been writing intelligently on this subject whom I shoud read?
Posted by: Jackmormon | August 20, 2004 02:18 PM
"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and kids do worse at school."
Babylonian clay tablet, 1545 BC
As JÃ©rÃ´me noticed in a previous thread, most people, notably in the media, but
apparently even academics, have a thin knowledge of statistics. In this case, these idiots
don't get that correlation doesn't mean causality. In fact, here, it may just be that both
variables are symptoms of a similar cause. Or one could even suggest that they just got the
causalities the other way around, which indeed would be quite obvious (kid addicts
probably have more friends who're also into sex, drugs and internet porn than the average
kiddie, and you're more prone to sex when you're stoned or drunk because you're less
inhibited). Or it could be twisted in many other ways, of course.
But, but... does that mean that today's US-teenagers in the US will not grow up to be
better-than-us, heterosexual, monogamous, healthy-living, God-FEARING,
energy-consuming, rapture-craving, evolution-rejecting Christian souls willing to let others
share in the gift of the greatest nation on earth (tm) once in a while?
No operation Irani freedom, Korean freedom, Syrian freedom, Afghanistan
this-time-you-WILL-get-freedom-or-else?
Oh dear.
US-teenagers in the US... right. No, I have not been smoking that.
What a lot of garbage (the study, not the posts here.) As I interpret it, the â€œinternetâ€•
and â€œpornâ€• are the key words. Neo-cons would love to control the internet lke China
does. They pander to the fundies by linking internet and porn. Danger is all over the place!
But not, of course, on the TV. Control of peopleâ€™s sex lives is a number one agenda for
all domineering fundamentalists.
Teen (single) pregancy is down all over the â€˜developedâ€™ world, since 1985 at least (of
the top of my head), including the US. AIDS is down in many developed countries as well
(condoms, sex later, etc.) Illegal drugs are not responsible for many deaths in the US (a few
thousand per year). Marijuana has never caused any deaths at all (barring the heavily and
multiply intoxicated driving cars, no stats. available afaik).
off the net, no guarantee:
More than three million men, women, and children died on America's roads and highways
in the Twentieth Century.
Ergo: If you are a teen and want some drugs, have sex, and soon.
Posted by: biklett | August 20, 2004 04:51 PM
Filthy old man screws young journalists
Back in love - Rumsfeld and the American media
Nemo, nothing triggers my gag reflex more than seeing or hearing Rummy, unless it's
seeing or hearing Poppy Bush, and that's dating back to the 1980s. Descriptive phrases
include: Makes my skin crawl. Makes me want to scrub myself all over with pumice soap.
As bad as knowing about the abuse of children and animals.
M. Scott Peck, in "The People of the Lie" says one of your self-barometers when in the
presence of pathological evil is feeling an urgent desire to get as far away from it/him/them
as possible as quickly as possible.
That about covers it.
Now, it's starting to seem like controlling sexuality is at the center of the entire ideological
war, as the Christian and Islamic fundamentalists have positioned it.
I couldn't agree more. After all, isn't that what the abortion debate is really all about? How
girls shouldn't be having sex in the first place?
And how about the gay marriage amendment? Really, at the heart of it, the whole objection
is about sexuality ... you know, that awful, awful way homosexuals go about it.
Religious extremists -- in both Muslim and Christian countries -- just cannot keep their
heads and hearts out of other people's bedrooms.
Nice Kate.
You just made all your most worthy ancestors smile all the way back to Eve.
And yeah...
Adam too.
Susan,
Only slightly tangential... I'm looking forward to being able to buy Leonard Shlain's newest
book, Sex, Time and Power. I've read two of his other books, and based on the presale
reviews I don't think I'll be disappointed with this one.
Quote: "Leonard Shlain explores how these archaic insights about sex, time and power
dramatically altered all subsequent human cultures, from the nature of courtship to the
institution of marriage to the evolution of language. Along the way, the author also offers
innovative and provocative theories concerning the human origins of menstrual harmony
among closeknit women, homosexuality, superstition, masturbation, early menopause,
circumcision, left-handedness, baldness, color blindness, sadism, and orgasms."
koreyel: Nice Kate. You just made all your most worthy ancestors smile all the way back to
Eve.
And yeah... Adam too.
Thanks, koreyel. ;-) Some necessary survival instincts remain. When I think of the likes of
Rummy the Rum I think that Harold Pinter had him and them in mind...
After Lunch
And after noon the well-dressed creatures come
To sniff among the dead
And have their lunch
And all the many well-dressed creatures pluck
The swollen avocados from the dust
And stir the minestrone with stray bones
And after lunch
They loll and lounge about
Decanting claret in convenient skulls
Humanoid-resembling velociraptors with higher cerebral corteses of no redeeming value.
[shudder]
Almost forgot to mention that the swooning, corrupt members of the Fourth Estate who
toady up to him are no different than the mesmerized chittering, chortling, dribbling,
jibbering Mr. Renfield, playing their part in the protection of their own personal
Rumsferatu.
I'm an equal opportunity lambaster. ;-)
@Kate
"Rumsferatu". I love it!
You just made my day, lady. Thanks for that, and the Pinter quote.
my my, i have a basement of teens as we speak.
lets see, was i young once?
did fuck in the woods in back of the reservoir up cascade canyon? under the old mill
bridge? in the tam high stairwell?
take acid?
survive?
was i curious>?
sexual?
in love?
sell pot?
suck dick?
trip all night on mt.tam?
peyote in the desert?
drink cool aid w/ owsley and the dead?
cruz the haight?
dance naked on bolinas beach @ sunrise?
yes yes yes yes and it made me who i am today. the last generation to not fear aids,if only
for a few years.
did our generation radically change the course of american politics and culture forever?
would i change any moment of my history?
am i all fucked up because of it?
i worry more about a youth that knows life thru a cell phone. malls.corporate america. sex?
haven't teens been having that since the beginning of time? and drugs?whatever. i don't
have all the answers.
Posted by: annie | August 21, 2004 02:01 AM
Isnâ€™t it interesting that the ones fighting sex most are the â€šSaulus turned into
Paulusâ€™, that the biggest sinners are the ones trying to keep the others from making
their own experiences. I agree with Annie, I consider the cell phone addiction of
todayâ€™s youth a bigger problem. If that is all the â€˜realâ€™ experience young people
can have today, I am really sorry for them and I can understand very well why they get
turned off and try to run away from it by using drugs. As if that would be something new.
Sometimes it is frustrating to see how limited the world has become for children and teens,
all those restrictions. Just one example, something simple as playing out by themselves on
the streets, I we used to do when I was a child, has become way to dangerous. Where has
the space gone for all those exploration of the surrounding and playing adventure to satisfy
our curiosity - where can they live it today?
As if we were not curious. Ok. we didnâ€™t have the internet to download pornography,
but I remember those whispered discussions behind our hands that boys are looking at
playboy magazines - imagine that, and the disappointment when I actually got to see a
centerfold. You can see much more in any anatomy book, but the talks were fun anyway.
Or the heavy discussion if we should go to a sauna, I mean all those naked bodies, male and
female. Now looking back, it seems all so innocent and still it was part of the important
process of growing up. From my observation I have the impression that children are more
and more looked at as little grown ups, tight schedules, adults would go on the streets to
demonstrate for work hour reductions with similar agendas. I pity children more and more.
I think we are stealing them of important experiences and we are destroying the world they
loaned to us.
Another of those "starts from a fantasy framework" studies.. Kind of ignoring the teens
who are desperate to get out the house so that Daddy or Uncle or big brother won't be
forcing them to have sex. Not a majority, afaik, unless things are far worse than we know.
But also kids most likely to resort to drugs -- vulnerable to other exploiters, pimps, etc.
Funny how the submerged bit of the iceberg -- child sexual abuse in commercial porn and
prostitution (and in the home) gets conveniently ignored while we worry about [White
middle class] kids getting it on with each other after school.
Of course all the moralizers 'tsk tsk' at the young, as if there is no profitable world of vice
operating globally as a multi-billion dollar industry and only too willing to absorb the very
young and vulnerable, along with the coerced and the unfortunates sold by human
traffickers. I very much doubt if the very young are the client-base for this enterprise.
Similarly, it is hardly the young who head up the lucrative drugs cartels of the world.
Perhaps, given the resounding success of the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, the
CASA Report signals the opening shots of a new campaign, or rather a revisiting of the
scene of the great late 1950's crusade - the War on Teenagers. As the US military is one of
the leading customers and promoters of prostitution around military bases worldwide there
is an obvious solution to the undisciplined, uncontrolled sexual activity that the CASA
research has 'discovered' - Conscription anyone?
More than 8,000 prostitutes working in London's brothels
Quote:
â€œWhat a lot of garbage (the study, not the posts here.)â€•â€¦
***
I canâ€™t agree more. There is so much there to research about teens and sex and drugs
end families and culture andâ€¦andâ€¦and to make some really relevant and intelligent
correlations but this one is pure shit. But did they ( Bushco and their fanatics) produce
anything else anyway?
I also feel sooo sorry for today children. No wonder that people today are so hesitant to
bring children in this worldâ€¦What a pity that we allowed this world to be what it is today.
Moral definitely is ruined but teenagers have nothing to do with it. They are victims and
hypocrisy of old filthy men is just something that makes me vomit â€¦I am straggling to
find words ugly enough for this bunchâ€¦and I failâ€¦
It just occured to me that the anti-science background that allows for such studies to be
presented in the press is in full sight in the cite:
The thunder of teen sexual activity and dating behavior may signal the lightning of
substance abuse
This sentence was definitly prepared and thought about before the press conference. It was
not a spontanious thought. But this man well says that the speed of sound is faster than the
speed of light. Did one ever hear thunder before one saw the lightning?
BTW: Now there are 252 related stories at Google.
This just in.....
Kids who chase rabbits catch a few white ones!
As the caterpillar chooses the fairest leaves to lay her eggs on, so
the priest lays his curse on the fairest joys.
- William Blake, Marriage of Heaven & Hell
The socio-sexual circuit is activated and imprinted at adolescence,
when the DNA signal awakens the sexual apparatus. The
teenager becomes the bewildered possessor of a new body and a
new neural circuit oriented to orgasm and sperm-egg fusion. The
pubescent human, like any other rutting animal, lurches about in
a state of mating frenzy, every call gasping for the sexual object.
Imprint vulnerability is acute, and the first sexual signals to
turn on the adolescent nervous system remain fixed for life and
forever define the individual's sexual reality.
We should not be surprised, therefore, at the various fetishes
that are so easily acquired at these sensitive moments.
In fact, we can tell precisely at what period in time a person
was sexually imprinted by noting which fetishes continue to turn
him or her on. Black garters, booze, cool jazz, and crew cuts
define the sexual signals of one imprint group (generation) just
as rigidly as sleeping hags, marijuana, heavy rock and tight
jeans define another.
As Masters and Johnson have pointed out, most sexual dysfunctions
are hooked into the nervous system at these adolescent
moments of acute imprint vulnerability; their archetypal case is
that of a male who, about to mate for the first time, in the back
seat of a car, was traumatized by a policeman flashing a light on
him and his paramour. The imprint of that ghastly moment was
hooked for decades: the male remained impotent until reimprinted
by Masters and Johnson in their clinic.
The choices of heterosexuality or homosexuality, brash promiscuity
or timid celibacy, etc. are usually imprinted by exactly
similar accidents at points of imprint vulnerability. Just as biosurvival
anxiety or security are imprinted by accidents in the
nursing period, emotional domination or submission by accidents
in the toddling period, symbolic dexterity or "stupidity" by
the accidents of the learning environment.
Primitives (so-called) know these facts and surround all the
points of imprint vulnerability with rituals, "ordeals," "rites of
passage," etc. well designed to imprint the desired traits of a
well-integrated member of that tribe at that time. Relics of these
imprint ceremonies survive in Baptism, Confirmation, Bar Mitzvahs,
Marriage Ceremonies, the Masonic "raising," etc.
Exceprt From:Prometheus rising by Robert Anton Wilson
Father please don't send us to hell for our bioloical needs!...lmao
Thats a goodun Uncle. Right to the point and informative.
A little OT:
In reference to a post near here a couple of days ago (long riff on psychology between
alabama and the prof as I recall) speaking of Mama Barb's tough motherhood and how it
guided her son's future brain patterns.
When I was younger I made the unscientific (no data or charts) observation that many
homosexual men had been raised by dominant mothers. Lately I've heard little about that
correlation; more along the lines of ~ You're born that way ~ , and depending on who one is
listening to, ~ It's a choice ~. Ha.
But back to the Dub. There are rumors that he has kept a male lover on the side; perhaps
not recently though.
Speaking of teens...
YOU'LL BE GLAD TO KNOW THAT guns-drawn raids on innocent high school kids are
A-OK and don't violate anybody's rights. Whew, what a relief! For a while there, I thought
some of our Sacred Men in Blue might actually have been behaving like a gang of criminal
raiders. How could I ever have doubted their saintly perfection?
Late to the party again.
Sigh.
Bernhard sez i.e.: When teens are younger they are more likely to have family dinner and
are less likely to have sex, to smoke, to drink and to look at porn.
So the real problem is the aging process.
Shoulda known.
My solution?
Soylent Teen.
Posted by: sasando | August 23, 2004 09:07 PM
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« Other Topics - Open Thread | Main | Benign Social Genocide »
Moon of Alabama: Other Topics - Open Thread
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« In Memoriam August 19, 2003 | Main | Teen Sex »
August 19, 2004
Other Topics - Open Thread
Comments
Bush: "And because the Soviet dinar had devalued, Saddam Hussein plucked this guy out
of society to punish him,..."
Link
Mr. Negroponte is out today - just as well perhaps
Mortar hits US Baghdad embassy - two hurt
Bush X-Rayed (Flash needed)
Allawi gives al-Sadr â€˜final call' as Najaf fighting rages
Oil hits new high over $48 as Iraq violence flares
@B: maybe Bush missed his calling. With his Harvard MBA and all, would probably have
made a great foreign currency trader.
@NEMO:
1. When the insurgency calls at the embassy, are they properly diplomatically attired?
2. I am prepared to settle the civil suit I filed against you back on Bad Choice thread in
either euros or dollars. Don't trust those Soviet dinars.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/other_topics_op.html (1 von 35) [16.11.2004 18:46:12]
@Harold
Ok - we settle. What? 20 Billion?
Puh, ok, but you will have to take Mark .
Where's Red Adair when you need him?
Basra - Iraq's South Oil Co. headquarters torched
Harold Lloyd
Sartorial etiquette is faithfully observed by the Iraqi resistance but there are, of course,
cultural differences vis a vis what constitutes appropriate attire. I believe that hunting
jackets are de rigeur when calling upon Mr. Negroponte.
@B:
That's a very sad piece of paper to look at.
Just curious. What would that have bought at the height of Weimar's inflation woes?
Posted by: Harold | August 19, 2004 03:03 PM
@ Harold Lloyd
In a spirit of good humor, good international relations and strictly 'without prejudice' I did
send you a little something but apparently it seems to have gone astray...
Senators ask where $8.8 billion in Iraq funds went
Any Dutch posters here?
Here comes the reinforcements!
Sometime I wonder if I shouldn't feel pitty for Bush - because just nothing seems to work
out well for him anymore. However, these are fleeting moments only.
Unwilling participants - Iraqi soccer players angered by Bush campaign ads featuring team
@Herold Lloyd
November 20, 1920, 4,200,000,000,000.0 Mark did buy 1 US$. So that note was about half
a cent of 1920 US$. Not much to buy for half a cent, even 1920.
A month earlier that 20 billion note was still about 1 US$. Twenty days later it could not
pay its printing costs.
Now thats why Germans are still a little wary of inflation.
Iraqi editor's experience in US custody.
Why do they hate us?
Another one who does not give up.
A former Bush administration official who led the fruitless postwar effort to find weapons
of mass destruction in Iraq told Congress on Wednesday that the National Security Council
led by Condoleezza Rice had botched intelligence information before the war and was "the
dog that did not bark" over Iraq's weapons program.
Former Iraq Arms Inspector Faults Prewar Intelligence
@ Harold
When the money turns up I expect you to return it, with interest, as the 'evidence' that you
allege triggered your PCFS (Post Comedic Farking Syndrome) has disappeared and along
with it your chances of a bumper compensation package.
Kerry's 'old flame' pulls website
@NEMO:
Thought I hit the Gravy Train there for sure.
If I see that $8Bn around, you'll be the first to know.
Trust Me.
@Nemo
BBC?
They are gutter press since Hutton and Grade was put in charge.
More on the Bush adminstrations hopes to establish "friendly militias" to wit: Wolfowitz
calls for "tightening control" over the internet I like that we get to help pay the 500
million to control us and spread freedom!
(extreme sarcasm)
Will we be able to do this after Bush's re-election?
@Fran-That is some limited hanghout by Mr. Kay.....question is why finger Rice, and why now?
Are the Rovians erecting the next Strawgirl?
@RossK:
Chief, if you can figure all this shit out, you could have survived in Russia 1922-1939 as a
White Russian kulak.
@RossK:
Me there. Probably ought to get Sherlock Holmes and Hunter Thompson in on this whole
Iraqi farce.
Get them to write the definitive report.
Religious nut, sadistic psychopath, bigoted dirtbag, blood-thirsty, half-crazed demented
animal, torture-loving twisted zealot Boykin 'censured' for remarks
US general 'censured' for remarks
Well, I feel so much better now.
@NEMO:
I have a poem for you.
Enjoy and give me a literary Judgement tomorrow.
It's rather long but well worth the read;
Boykin's probably in it somewhere:
THE DEVIL AND BILLY MARKHAM
Posted by: FLASHHARRY | August 19, 2004 10:12 PM
Re:Religious nut, sadistic psychopath, bigoted dirtbag, blood-thirsty, half-crazed demented
animal, torture-loving twisted zealot Boykin 'censured' for remarks...
but you know what? I'm glad he said it, at least we know where he stands unlike the many
others whom actions go unnoticed.
I was asked in the oily thred who wants the US as the world police. It is world economic
elites. The US is a wholely owned subsidiary of every other country in the world. In order
to protect their assets and real property, someone must protect the current economic system
that so many elites have a stack in. Further, in order to keep the current system afloat until
alternative forms of economy emerge the US military will be called on to keep order in the
transition.
If you look at current population trends, the US will continue to grow to over 400 million.
In order to create this larger population, massive in-migrations is needed of course. Also,
this gives the US plenty of first generation poverty stricken people that will sign up for the
military, thus creating a willing army.
Also, due to the background of the in-migrants, mostly coming from oppressive regimes,
you will see more laws and loss of more civil liberties in order to control this mass of
people.
Further trends will be land prices will continue to go up. There is not and will not be a
bubble. There is plenty of buyers. Now defaulting on mortgages is a different thing. Having
enough economic buying power to pay high prices mortgages will be tough.
Due to drought and lack of water in the west, populations will need to move to the midwest
again.
Those are my predictions and answer to the other thread. Sorry for typos.
@JDP:
If this thread's still standing Monday, I will try to answer you. I have a much different take
on it than you do. I have a lot of stuff to do between now and Monday.
We can, of course, as you and I both do, talk
rationally and without pyrotechnics.
Take care, and enjoy the poetic link I left for NEMO. It's a hoot!
nospinzone blog has this:
LONDON (AP) - Doctors working for the U.S. military in Iraq collaborated with
interrogators in the abuse of detainees at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, profoundly
breaching medical ethics and human rights, a bioethicist charges in The Lancet medical
journal.
In a scathing analysis of the behavior of military doctors, nurses and medics, University of
Minnesota professor Steven Miles calls for a reform of military medicine and an official
investigation into the role played by physicians and other medical staff in the torture
scandal.
He cites evidence that doctors or medics falsified death certificates to cover up
homicides, hid evidence of beatings and revived a prisoner so he could be further
tortured. No reports of abuses were initiated by medical personnel until the official
investigation into Abu Ghraib began, he found.
"The medical system collaborated with designing and implementing psychologically and
physically coercive interrogations,'' Miles said in this week's edition of Lancet. "Army
officials stated that a physician and a psychiatrist helped design, approve and monitor
interrogations at Abu Ghraib."
Josef Mengele Bastards
What do we want? World War IV! When do we want it? Now! â€“ An ideological road
map for America lovingly drawn by a Neocon Godfather
World War IV: How it started, what it means, and why we have to win - Norman Podhoretz
Aside from the revised and often erroneous history, aside from the cherry-picked facts,
quotations and distorted analysis, aside from the use of discredited information as
â€˜evidenceâ€™ â€“ the scary thing about this essay is the fact that people like Podhoretz
are not trying to hijack America â€“ they are already in the driving seat.
A few bad apples?!!!!
US Army Doctors Had Role in Abu Ghraib Abuse
Also US-warplanes are bombing Najaf and Falluja this morning. Falluja because it is
supposed to be the center of resistance against US-Troups. What ever happened to the
indipendece of Iraq? The US Government believes that the Sadr milizia gets their weapons
from IRAN - how convienient!!!
the link is in German - here - sorry don't have the time to translate as other work is waiting.
Between March 1 and April 6, airline agents tried to block Mr.[Edward M.]
Kennedy from boarding airplanes on five occasions because his name
resembled an alias used by a suspected terrorist who had been barred from
flying on airlines in the United States, his aides and government officials said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/national/20flight.html?hp"> Senator? Terrorist? A
Watch List Stops Kennedy at Airport Book your next ticket as GWB, maybe he is not on
the list, but then, he probably should be.
@ Harold Lloyd 7:07pm-Ya, HST in his prime might have been able to make the nut.
But now? Well, seems the only thing the old coot cares about these days is the possibility
that the Rovians might shut down pro football this season.
Thought I might drop this little chunk of speculation. As the siege of Najaf goes on,
reportedly with Alawiâ€™s own troops figuring into the spearhead, there to do the dirty
work in and around the Imam Ali shrine if necessary, and bolstered by the vitriolic rhetoric
of the interim defense minister Hazem Shaalan, I wonder if itâ€™s occurred to anyone
(calling the shots)
what this all might entail?
After all, in 1991 after gulf war 1, did not the Saddam government with some tacit enabling
f rom the US forces make major slaughter on the Shiite uprising that followed that war? I
wonder, if in the collective Shia mind, that the current siege of Najaf might be bringing
back some bad memories. Could not the direction taken by the Allawi/US efforts in Najaf
be seen as a harbinger of what's to come politically for the Shia? The image of another
Saddam and a US enabler rising from the ashes to once again put the nix on any Shiite
aspirations, must certainly raise deep suspicion.
Now comes Muqtada al-Sadr, holed up in the most sacred site in all Shia, willing and ready
to â€œdefendâ€• the shrine with his and his militias lives. Now, if this gets no-ones
attention call me the Alamo, and we all know how that went down. Davy Crockett, Jim
Bowie, and Sam Houston, while light years from Muqtada al-Sadr, do share that special
embodiment of popular epic myth (Sadrâ€™s case) in the making. While many in Iraq may
have suspicions about him the man, I would bet the farm most Shia are watching and
thinking and imagining the unfolding events in anticipation of some kind of
political/spiritual epiphany in the form of an idealized image and a clear path of action.. If
Sadr were to martyr himself the myth would grow exponentially, if he were to work out a
deal, his movement would continue grow as it has already. In some sense,both ways, he
wins.
What al-Sadr has accomplished, at least in part, is to both reframe the occupation and the
Allawi government as totally complicit and a direct threat to Shiite aspirations, reminiscent
of Saddam, with the end of occupation no where in sight. He has also, perhaps more
importantly, provided an impetus and a method that has illustrated some fundamental
weaknessâ€™ within the occupation, and that a general uprising amongst the Shia might
indeed overthrow both Allawi and the occupation.
Najaf, early hours of the morning, August 20th
Burnt out offices, South Oil Co., Basra, August 20th
South Oil Co. headquarters, Basra, August 20th
anna missed,
March 20th, 1991, as Husayn's forces made a three pronged entry into Najaf, painted on
some of the tanks that entered the city were the words 'la shi3a ba3da al-yawm' - No more
Shi3a after today.
Doubtless American tanks blasting into Najaf, American gunships overhead and the fact
that the Sunni, ex-Ba'ath assassin Allawi is today the 'government in Baghdad' will have
resonances for many Shi'ites. And no doubt too that the Friday prayers currently being held
all over Iraq will include a message about the situation that will not be particularly
supportive of Allawi or his American masters.
Very direct reporting A journey into the epicenter of the Sadr standoff from the inside of
the Najaf shrine.
"You realize that what you are doing is risky," said a US Army major, whose
last name was Robertson. "That shrine might not be around much longer."
...
The mood inside is ebullient, and the demonstrators seem determined to keep
up the spirits of the unarmed fighters resting inside.
Anna - not to mention the opposite "signal" given to the Sunnis who now run free in
Fallujah...
Bush Wants To Be Your Shrink
"Next month, President Bush plans to unveil a broad new mental health plan called the
'New Freedom Initiative.' Never mind that it couldnâ€™t have less to do with freedom; if
youâ€™re a thinking American, this initiative should scare the hell out of you."
---Keep in mind Bush is known to many, including me, to be a complete dry drunk sociopath.
@ anna-If your hypothesis is correct, this is precisely why al Sadr must be put down, correct?
And as you pointed out a while back, this all started with Bremmer.
Mutada al-Sadrs strategy of keeping a solid foothold in Najaf (past 4 months) has enabled
him to draw the US/Allawi forces into a major confrontation that is most importantly
symbolic and aimed at the collective will of the Shiite population. To illustrate clearly to
his fellow Shia that the al-Sistani "wait and see" route to political power is systematically
being undercut by the occupation/Allawi drive to consolidate power, and that in the end the
Shia will be screwed yet again. He has made his point in Allawis decision to use Iraqi
troops to put down his (and all of the Shia) claim on the shrine itself. The point, I think, is
to instill an irrefutable sense collectively among the Shia that 1) their (his) case is
legitimate and viable, 2) that the overwhelming military power can be countered effectively
through symbolic resistance, 3) that overwhelming military power can be defeated if its
true intentions are understood, and attacked on that level i.e. the strangulation of costs vs
rewards. 4) and finally, that it is the Shia, that holds the trump card.
If nothing else, Muqtada al-Sadr has played the occupation like an old fiddle.
Posted by: ann missed | August 20, 2004 02:12 PM
@ ann missed
Would you also say that al Sistani is out of the picture? From afar it would seem that he has
sought retirement and/or safety in Britain.
I suppose he could hope to make a triumphant return in the style of Khomeni (sp) when the
Shah of Iran was forced out. Perhaps Nemo or Helpful Spook have some insight :)
If nothing else, Muqtada al-Sadr has played the occupation like an old fiddle.
I thought it was Bush who fiddled while Baghdad burned?
Would you also say that al Sistani is out of the picture?
Well...he either has old man shivers or he is de-sistani-ng himself for some sly reason.
Anna - not to mention the opposite "signal" given to the Sunnis who now run free in
Fallujah...
You mean those blokes in the Brooks brothers suits stinking of the loud toilet-water
Bremmer left behind? Why they look perfectly legit to me. As if they could step right into
the CEO-ship of Enron or Halliburton at the click of Cheney's fingers.
Do you suppose Dick has taught them to click their heels right smart when he issues
orders?
Yes Mien Fuhrer! *CLICK*
Certainly Mien Fuhrer! *CLICK*
Right away Mien Fuhrer! *CLICK*
As you command Mien Fuhrer! *CLICK*
What an absolute travesty...
If there is any justice in this world the cost of this Iraq debacle really ought to go to a
trillion US dollars.
As the only way to beat studidity in this world is to hit it over the head with a money club
until it surrenders.
@koreyel-"...I thought it was Bush who fiddled while Baghdad burned?
True enough, which is why he shall, from this day forward, be known as a 'NeroCon'.
On tall tales and obstacles to electoral participation in Afghanistan
The fog and dog of war
â€¦.But Ismail Khan doubts whether the 800,000 people in Herat who registered to vote in
the October 9 presidential election, will bother after seeing Kabul's failure to strike hard or
act soonerâ€¦.
Embattled Afghan governor scents treachery
KABUL (Reuters) - Time bombs planted by Taliban fighters wounded six police and
security officials overnight outside U.N.-Afghan election offices in western Afghanistan,
Taliban and police officials told Reuters on Fridayâ€¦.
Taliban blasts wound six in Western Afghanistan
Sketches...
See no evil, Najaf, August 20th
Hear no evil, Najaf, August 20th
Speak no evil - US troops cringe under Iraqi fire, Najaf, August 20th
Occupation - US troops bed down in a commandeered Iraqi home, Najaf, August 20th
Smashing windows of vehicle parked on a Najaf street, August 20th
Pro-American Iraqi National Guardsman, Najaf, August 20th
Tragedy - new home made toys carried by young boys, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 20th
Placards piled up for â€˜spontaneous pro-Chalabi demonstration, Baghdad, August 20th
Lured by freebies, Iraq youth turns out for Chalabi but chants for al-Sadr
Not all Chalabiâ€™s PR operations were such transparent failures though:
Majority of Americans still think Iraq had WMD - poll
Thanks Nemo - very valuable links.
Hundreds of Iraqis, mostly football fans lured by the promise of free shirts,
walked and danced through central Baghdad carrying posters of disgraced
Pentagon favourite Ahmed Chalabi, but chanting their support for Shiite
radical leader Moqtada Sadr.... Although they held in their hands banners
supporting the secular Chalabi, on their lips was praise for Sadr... Masan said
he had joined the march at the request of senior members of his local football
club, who had been asked to provide support for a rally by Chalabi's Iraqi
National Congress (INC). ...
"We were told we would be given sports items such as T-shirts and football
equipment if we participated in the march"
Lured by freebies, Iraq youth turns out for Chalabi, but chants for Sadr
PR tricks - media blowback
PATRAS, Greece -- Iraqi midfielder Salih Sadir scored a goal here on
Wednesday night, setting off a rousing celebration among the 1,500 Iraqi
soccer supporters at Pampeloponnisiako Stadium. Though Iraq -- the surprise
team of the Olympics -- would lose to Morocco 2-1, it hardly mattered as the
Iraqis won Group D with a 2-1 record and now face Australia in the
quarterfinals on Sunday.
Afterward, Sadir had a message for U.S. president George W. Bush, who is
using the Iraqi Olympic team in his latest re-election campaign
advertisements.
In those spots, the flags of Iraq and Afghanistan appear as a narrator says, "At
this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist
regimes."
"Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential
campaign," Sadir told SI.com through a translator, speaking calmly and
directly. "He can find another way to advertise himself."
Ahmed Manajid, who played as a midfielder on Wednesday, had an even
stronger response when asked about Bush's TV advertisement. "How will he
meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women?" Manajid told
me. "He has committed so many crimes."
"The ad simply talks about President Bush's optimism and how democracy has
triumphed over terror," said Scott Stanzel, a spokesperson for Bush's
campaign. "Twenty-five million people in Iraq are free as a result of the
actions of the coalition."
To a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that
former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the
serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led
coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power.
But they also find it offensive that Bush is using Iraq for his own gain when
they do not support his administration's actions. "My problems are not with the
American people," says Iraqi soccer coach Adnan Hamad. "They are with
what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has
killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national]
stadium and there are shootings on the road?"
At a speech in Beaverton, Ore., last Friday, Bush attached himself to the Iraqi
soccer team after its opening-game upset of Portugal. "The image of the Iraqi
soccer team playing in this Olympics, it's fantastic, isn't it?" Bush said. "It
wouldn't have been free if the United States had not acted."
Sadir, Wednesday's goal-scorer, used to be the star player for the professional
soccer team in Najaf. In the city in which 20,000 fans used to fill the stadium
and chant Sadir's name, U.S. and Iraqi forces have battled loyalists to rebel
cleric Moktada al-Sadr for the past two weeks. Najaf lies in ruins.
"I want the violence and the war to go away from the city," says Sadir, 21.
"We don't wish for the presence of Americans in our country. We want
them to go away."
Manajid, 22, who nearly scored his own goal with a driven header on
Wednesday, hails from the city of Fallujah. He says coalition forces killed
Manajid's cousin, Omar Jabbar al-Aziz, who was fighting as an insurgent, and
several of his friends. In fact, Manajid says, if he were not playing soccer
he would "for sure" be fighting as part of the resistance.
"I want to defend my home. If a stranger invades America and the people
resist, does that mean they are terrorists?" Manajid says. "Everyone [in
Fallujah] has been labeled a terrorist. These are all lies. Fallujah people are
some of the best people in Iraqâ€¦."
Iraqi soccer players upset about Bush campaign ads using team
ATHENS, Aug. 19 - The United States Olympic Committee has asked the
Bush campaign to stop using the Olympic name in commercials. Federal law
grants the U.S.O.C. exclusive rights to the name.
The campaign recently began running an ad that shows a swimmer, with flags
of Afghanistan and Iraq. An announcer says: "Freedom is spreading
throughout the world like a sunrise. And this Olympics, there will be two more
free nations and two fewer terrorist regimes."
"We're awaiting a reply," Darryl Seibel, a U.S.O.C. spokesman, said.
US Olympic Committee on Bush campaign ads
Useless PR tricks - style over substance - how saying things are going wonderfully
doesn't actually make it so
The Bush administration is facing growing criticism from both inside and
outside its ranks that it has failed to move aggressively enough in the war of
ideas against Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups
over the three years since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001â€¦.
â€¦Middle East experts - and some frustrated U.S. officials - complain that the
administration has provided only limited new direction in dealing with
anti-American anger among the world's 1.2 billion Muslims and is spending
far too little on such efforts, particularly in contrast with the billions spent on
other pressing needs, such as homeland security and intelligenceâ€¦
"It's worse than failing. Failing means you tried and didn't get better. But at
this point, three years after September 11, you can say there wasn't even much
of an attempt, and today Arab and Muslim attitudes toward the U.S. and the
degree of distrust in the U.S. are far worse than they were three years ago. Bin
Laden is winning by default," said Shibley Telhami, a member of a White
House-appointed advisory group on public diplomacy and Brookings
Institution scholarâ€¦.
"â€¦There is a total collapse of trust in American intentions and it's only
gotten far worse over the past year," Telhami said. "When people hate or
resent the United States far more than they dislike bin Laden, how can
you succeed? That's the bottom line."
US struggles to win hearts and minds in the Muslim world
Odyssey
Curious journey - the tale of an Iraqi poet
A prisoner's tale
LUFKIN, Texas (AP) - A 76-year-old man who spent nearly every day of the
last four decades in prison walked free after a judge found that deputies
extracted his confession to a 1962 robbery by crushing his fingers between cell
barsâ€¦.
Texas man, 76, walks free from prison after judge finds his robbery confession was coerced
Ah, the bad old days â€“ who could imagine torture being part of American interrogation
procedures nowadays? OK, OK, all of you can â€“ I see.
OK, I've read bits of Podhoretz' piece of drivel, and I have to say that anyone who dares to
write this deserve to die in the most painful way, to my greatest pleasure and satisfaction:
"In this instance, encouragement and reinforcement came from the almost incredible degree
of hostility to America that erupted in the wake of 9/11 all over the European continent, and
most blatantly in France and Germany"
Well, fuck you, asshole. This sick bastard is unfit to live.
I really wished the pityful "European leaders" had more gutst than that and would openly
and officially tell to Bush that crap like the whole "Anti-Americanism" chapter of this
ne-con clown won't be tolerated anymore and may serously jeopardise any friendship
between America and Europe.
Oh, and apparently he didn't read that William Buckley is not pretty upset at Bush and his
insane policies.
Damn, this whole site there is a complete trash bin of the worst kind, with stuff about how
legalising torture would be fine with the US, how Latin America goes badly with dictator
Chavez and other buddies, how feminists are Evil, and other nonsense. And this is from the
so-called "American Jewish Committee". Well, were I an American Jew, I would be pretty
pissed that such a bunch of fascistoid wingnuts are hijacking a whole community.
Clueless Joe,
With you 100%, but as I say, Podhoretz and his ideological companions are not 'mad
outsiders' nursing a crank agenda - they are in the driving seat of American foreign policy.
Those who have died, and who most certainly will die, in their hundreds of thousands or
worse as a consequence of the diseased thinking of Podhoretz and Co. can take no comfort
from the fact that their being blasted from the earth owes its genesis to the twisted thoughts
of respectable men in sharp suits.
â€•Oh, you mean THAT Â£4.35 million mansion and estate? Iâ€™d forgotten all about
that!â€•
â€œâ€¦When newspaper reports first linked Ms Bhutto and her husband with the property,
they both issued denials. Mr Zardari said indignantly: "How can anyone think of buying
a mansion in England when people in Pakistan don't even have a roof over their
heads?" Ms Bhutto continues to deny her involvementâ€¦.
Bhutto's husband now admits owning Â£4m estate
Greed, theft and corruption â€“ what would politicians do without them? Just tell lies I
guessâ€¦
Casualties and war crimes in Afghanistan
PR tricks update - Hypocrisy makes a stand
President Bush's re-election campaign will continue to run a television ad that mentions the
Olympics, despite questions about whether that violates the bylaws for the gamesâ€¦.
Bush campaign won't stop running Olympics ad despite query from U.S. organizing
committee
Perhaps one of the most nauseating things, for Iraqis about Bush claiming any shred of
â€˜creditâ€™ for the achievements of the Iraqi soccer team is that fact that U.S. soldiers
took their training stadium (mal'ab al-Sha'ab) and made it a military baseâ€¦.
Paranoia at it's best! Must be really fun to travel in the US.
Kennedy's name on US 'no-fly' list
An Najaf
'Death after death, blood after blood'
Well time for some sick humour from the ever-abrasive (and in this case imho effin
brilliant) Chris Floyd
I'd like to hear this one done as a radio spot by the Firesign Theatre...
But things have reached a sorry pass in this country when decent businessmen are forced to
give up profits and betray their foreign partners just because of some ridiculous law. I
mean, come on! The law is for regulating the behavior of the lower orders; it was never
meant to apply to people like us!
nemo; tragedy-new homade toys carried by young ...
sad and indicative, the seeds of resistance planted deep in the Iraqi psyche, will bloom in a
few years unquestioned.
Out of the mouths of babesâ€¦
To Prime Minister Tony Blair,
My name is Maxine Gentle and I am 14 years old. I am the sister of Fusilier
Gordon Gentle who died in the war in Iraq on the 28th June 2004. I want my
thoughts and feelings to be heard and known.
My feelings are that I think you are rubbish at your job. You don't care about
the British public, armed forces or anyone in fact.
My big brother died at the age of 19, and what for? A war over oil and money,
that's what I think the war is all about. There was no such thing as weapons of
"mass destruction", if there were Saddam Hussein would have used them at
the start of the war.
I think that you should withdraw all of our soldiers from Iraq. After all, it is
not our war, it's America's. So why did we, the British, have to get involved? I
think that you just don't want to get on the wrong side of George Bush.
My big brother meant the world to me. I looked up to him with pride because
he made something of himself. He was well known, just like you, but
everyone liked and loved him, not like you, because I have no respect for you,
and nor do a lot of other people I know.
Gordon had only passed out in April, and yet by May YOU sent him and many
others to a war zone.
What I find strange is that in order to be a qualified plumber or electrician you
need to train for 3 or 4 years, but to be a qualified soldier, and learn to KILL
someone, you only need to train for SIX MONTHS! The people that you have
sent out there are still young; they have the rest of their lives to live, just like
Gordon did.
My family is still hurting badly and so am I. To you he was just another
number clown. From the minute that we found out Gordon was going over
there we were all worried about him, right up until the minute we found out it
was Gordon that was killed by the Iraqis.
We are all hurting badly, but I don't just blame Gordon's death on the Iraqis
that made the roadside bomb, I blame YOU as well because it is your fault that
our soldiers are over there in the first place, by agreeing with George Bush that
we HAD to go to war, when we didn't!
As I said everyone is hurting badly right now, but you would not know that
because your sons are all tucked up nicely in bed at night, at the same time as
there are mums and dads who still have sons over there, who can't sleep at
night, wondering if their loved ones are coming home or are they going to be
the next ones to be killed.
You would not know how we all feel, because you're at home at night with
your wife and son watching them growing up, but we will never know what
Gordon would have been like in years to come.
It is okay for you sitting there with all your money and power, ruining people's
lives by the decisions YOU make. I don't care who knows how I feel about
you. All you care about is things that benefit you. All you and your new "best
Friend" George Bush care about is Iraq's oil.
My big brother died in the early hours of the morning, and yet, when you and
George Bush went on live TV in the afternoon to hand the country back over,
you both stood there that afternoon smiling and acting like one big happy
family when you both knew well that a British soldier had died that morning.
Nothing you can do or say will change my mind, or the fact that I am hurting
badly inside. I cry myself to sleep most of the time because Gordon has gone
and is never coming back.
Quite frankly I would have loved to meet you myself and tell you all this
personally. But if I met you I would not shake your hand. This is my personal
feelings towards you and George Bush, but I have less respect for you than
him because YOU are the British Prime Minister, well supposed to be, and I
am British, although sometimes I am ashamed to admit to being British when I
have got such a bad prime minister as you.
I hope you have pleasure reading this as I have had pleasure writing it.
Yours Sincerely
Maxine Gentle
Maxine Gentle to Tony Blair
Insincerity
Dear Mrs Gentle,
I am sorry I have not written to you before about Gordon. I was uncertain,
having read your comments in the newspapers, whether you would resent my
writing to you.
I offer you my deepest condolences on his death. But I would like you to know
that I believe what Gordon and his fellow soldiers are doing out in Iraq is vital
not just for the change necessary in that country but vital for the security and
stability of this country, Britain and of the wider world.
I understand you may not agree with this, but you should know at least that I
hold this belief sincerely.
It is a heavy responsibility to send young soldiers into war and I can assure I
did not take the decision lightly. But I believe that had we allowed Saddam to
remain in power, the consequences would have been appalling and dangerous
far beyond the frontiers of Iraq.
I would like to pay tribute to Gordon's courage, dedication and
professionalism. By all accounts, he was a fine soldier. I know you will be
very proud of him and so is his country in whose service he gave his life.
You and Mr Gentle are in my thoughts and prayers,
Yours sincerely
Tony Blair.
Blair to Mrs Rose Gentle, mother of a British soldier killed in Iraq
War of words â€“ Blair and the families of British soldiers killed in Iraq
anyone checked the brew ha ha over at back-to-iraq? and who is that richard wadsack guy ?
he could peel paint.
This would be really funny if it weren't so sad!
Nick Coleman: Gospel, crosses and boos on cue
Salam Pax is blogging again on a new site.
Fran,
Salam Pax is actually inside the Imam Ali shrine at Najaf at present, I am sure his take on
things will be interesting reading when he blogs again.
When the US Marines make policy Iraq burns
Assassinations and â€˜mistakes'
@Nemo - When the US Marines...
The article says, as the NYT reported, that the Marines started the Najaf clashes without
orders from higher ups. I did thought so too, but now I do believe that this NYT report is a
just a measure to deflect cricism from the Bush administration for anything bad that might
happen through this endevour. Marines are gung-ho, but the command structure is not as
independet as described.
It also fits the NeoCons plans to stir as much trouble as possibel in the Middle East. In the
case Kerry wins, they will have set up so many escalations that Kerry will have no room to
manuever except into the direction the NeoCons desire.
b
You are wise to hesitate to give credence to the 'out of control Marines' scenario - plausible
deniability is always a feature in operations where negative consequences might be grave.
Better to promote an image of gung ho US Marines than the possibility that orders are
coming directly from the highest level. And doubtless the 'coincidence' of the launch of a
massive attack on al-Mehdi militiamen in Sadr City, Baghdad, which occurred as one of the
numerous 'final pushes' was being made at An Najaf was down to a few hot-headed US
army officers in Baghdad, eh?
Analysis: Najaf siege might not end rebel clericâ€™s challenge
Substitute â€˜wonâ€™tâ€™ for â€˜mightâ€™ in the headline and this is a very useful
analysis
Final result - Hugo Chavez 1 George W. Bush and the CIA 0
Venezuela vote audit confirms Chavez victory
Home win.
An Najaf
1.25 am, Iraq time
Fire blazes in Najaf after blasts
Last night I made a little comment on the photo Nemo linked, of the !raqi boys playing
with homade RPG launchers. For some time Iâ€™ve had this sense that, any culture that
has within it an ongoing insurgency, rebellion, or occupation,will over time incorporate
those elements and debase the culture in such a way that litterally â€œbreedsâ€• an
effective resistance to the subugation or intrusion.
On the â€œTeen Sexâ€• thread, Uncle $cam makes an interesting point on socio-sexual
imprinting and the effects on both individual behavior and the resulting cultural condition.
Would it not logically follow that the images of theâ€œ rites of passage â€œ of sexual
maturation, when experienced in a long term war zone, might be supersceded by the new
images of heroic warrior? Personal anexity of the developing â€œnew bodyâ€• are easly
projected onto the shifting and perilous conditon of the culture itself, giving rise to boys
with wooden RPGâ€™s with dreams that are simultaniously self agrandizing and alturistic.
While these effects are exploited by our own military and its need for recruits, I would
think this pales in comparison to having the war taking place in your own back yard, day in
day out. And, it would seem that the longer such a conflict went on, the deeper and more
pervasive the affliction would become entreanched within the culture. Without a doubt this
presents any occupation force with a steadly diminshing opportunity to recast the â€œ mind
setâ€• of the culture, thus dooming it to eventual failure.
There is also a downside to the host culture in this scenario, while perhaps throwing off an
oppressor, they are still stuck with a culture that is addapted to warfare, a sort of cultural
addiction (to war). The post war period of Viet-nam and Afganastan might serve as
illustrations,they just couldnâ€™t stop.
@ anna m.
Can't disagree, especially wrt the Afgan example....so much for the flypaper hypothesis,
huh.
Sunday, August 22nd, 4.05am, An Najaf
US launches fresh assault on al-Sadr militia in Najaf
Santa Anna, Che Guevara, Penguins Next
Harold Lloyd,
So do you think that the USA should invade Venezuela, just to be on the safe side?
Incidentally, I am still making steady progress with your poem - I am slowed down because
I have to research who many of the characters in it are!
Iraq - technology transfer and training
Republican Guards officers, Fallujah fighters training Shi'ite militia
It is heartwarming to see the Iraqi people coming together and overcoming their religious
differences - well done Mr. Boosh!
@NEMO:
Do a Boolean, NEMO.
It helps with Americanisms, obscure historical people, and strange things.
It's fast, too.
Information Technology Training and Transfer(ITTT) will set your people free.
Take Care My Friend.
Not quite a fatwa but...
Ayatollah al-Sistani - Occupiers should leave Iraq
The commander of the big battalions speaks, and his remedy is not dissimilar to that of
young Muqtada al-Sadr - the spin on this news should be interesting...
Spot the difference
â€¦The maximum sympathy payout for wrongful death is $2,500 according to lists kept by
the Iraqi Assistance Center, a liason office that helps Iraqis manage affairs involving the
occupying militariesâ€¦
Running the US militaryâ€™s compensation gauntlet in Iraq
â€¦The British army has paid out Â£390 to the family of an eight-year-old Iraqi girl who
was killed after being hit by a bullet fired by a British soldierâ€¦.
How much is an Iraqi girl worth in British eyes?
Bereaved Iraqi family gets Â£390
A former Special Air Service sergeant whose military career ended when he was crushed
by an American helicopter in Afghanistan has received Â£1.3 million in compensation from
the US governmentâ€¦
US pays SAS â€˜friendly fireâ€™ victim Â£1.3m
Skin color, race, religion or just general comtempt?
It occurred to me the other day just how smart George W. Bush was to declare victory in
Iraq in May of 2003. Americans have come to expect ludicrously short wars (rather,
cloyingly-named operations, since wars are no longer declared by us) with relatively few
casualties on eiter side. This is what the White House and the Pentagon delivered in both
Afghanistan and Iraq. The actual elements of victory, such as the crushing defeat and
formal or de facto surrender of one's opponents, does not matter in these scenarios; what
matters is the public packaging of our military operations. The quick drive to Baghdad and
its subsequent occupation by Coalition forces could be packaged as a "victory," and if
subsequent events proved the circumstances of victory to be little different from the
circumstances of war itself, then the public would simply have to undergo an alteration of
definition. And this is just what has happened, as we are regularly reminded by
commentators across the spectrum that we "won the war" but haven't "won the peace." It's a
naive and completely assinine assessment of our situation, but there you have it: victory
declared and accepted in spite of the facts.
If this administration - if this country - is presently guided by war-mongers, the
war-mongers are patently inept at their chosen art. We don't so much fight wars anymore as
fuck around with the idea of it. This is what bin Laden meant when he called the US a
paper tiger. For all its swagger and whoop-ass rhetoric, the Bush White House has only
further reinforced this appalling reality and its contributing political mind-set.
Not a single US military engagement from the first Gulf war onward was fought to a
successful conclusion. It's worth wondering why the world's preeminent military power has
established such a pattern and sticks to it despite an extraordinary attack against its
homeland and the greater price that punch-pulling and political caution extract in the long
run.
Caveat emptor
Sudan uncover â€˜fake rapeâ€™ video ring
Fake â€˜honor killingâ€™ book author is a wanted con-woman
Amend international law to allow a pre-emptive strike on Iran â€“ Alan Dershowitz
In the battle to sway and influence your opinions propaganda comes in many guises â€“
fortunately insanity and demented bloodlust is easier to spot than some of the other
approaches. Dershowitz should be forcibly confined in an asylum for the pathologically
insane and all who have come into contact with him should be decontaminated without
delay.
Good catch there Nemo, this whole thing is just sickening beyond belief. I was listening to
the symphonic "Tool" a string quartet tribute to "tool" and had that sucker cranked to ten.
And started screaming to the top of my lungs for about 7 or 8 minutes. Cathartic! And I am
reminded of this acute first-circuit utter and complete trap we are all stuck in best described
thus: When the Russian mathematician, Ouspensky, was first
studying with Gurdjieff, he had great trouble understanding
Gurdjieff s insistence that most people are machines and totally
unaware of the objective world around them. Then, one day,
after World War I had begun, Ouspensky saw a truck full of
artificial legs. These artificial legs were being sent to the frontline
hospitals, for soldiers whose legs had not even been blown
off yet, but whose legs would be blown off. The prediction that
these legs would be blown off was so certain that the artificial
legs were already on their way to replace the natural legs. The
prediction was based on the mathematical certainty that millions
of young men would march to the front, to be maimed and murdered,
as mindlessly as cattle marching into a slaughterhouse.
In a flash, Ouspensky understood the mechanical nature of
ordinary human consciousness.
Arggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
Pat, in the light of your critique above I'd be interested in your read on the likelihood of
Israel getting US support for the action that Dershowitz is calling for, an action that would,
beyond a shadow of a doubt, set the entire Muslim world on a very real collision course
with the West.
Iran doesn't need a lot more pushing, what with the graves of millions of Iranians being
bombed and fought over daily in the cemetery in Najaf, and the mere suggestion of
Dershowitz's idea will have ramifications. You argue convincingly that the US
administration is hooked on media sound bites and the art of deception - but is it out of
control? Iran is the wrong place to choose for a 'get tough and stay tough' policy - an attack
there will ignite the world.
Uncle $cam,
It is indeed a dark place to be when the realization of the consequences of a mechanical
march of madness comes home to you. It doesn't even have the comfort of 'only being a
nightmare' - it's reality and its predictable outcomes are emerging day by day. God help us
all.
My above post, last sentence should read: The post war period of the US - Vietnam and the
Afgan - Soviet wars both resulted in extended conflict, Vietnam's war on Cambodia and the
Afgan civil war would illustrate the problems of de-progaming the culture.
@Pat
Would this also account for the "we have the most advanced health care system in the
world" rhetoric, when in fact we rate 26th down there somewhere with Costa Rico in actual
health care delivery? If so, would you say that we may be suffering a major epidemic of
cognative dissonance? Maybe some massive horseblinder syndrome? HELP !!!
My above post, last sentence should read: The post war period of the US - Vietnam and the
Afgan - Soviet wars both resulted in extended conflict, Vietnam's war on Cambodia and the
Afgan civil war would illustrate the problems of de-progaming the culture.
@Pat
Would this also account for the "we have the most advanced health care system in the
world" rhetoric, when in fact we rate 26th down there somewhere with Costa Rico in actual
health care delivery? If so, would you say that we may be suffering a major epidemic of
cognative dissonance? Maybe some massive horseblinder syndrome? HELP !!!
so thats how that happens, sorry
Aaaaaaaaarrrghhh!!!
Oh no! Oh no! Oh no!
Armed robbers steal Munchâ€™s â€˜The Screamâ€™ in Oslo
Right on, Pat. Saying the "war is over" is of a piece with calling our opponents
"insurgents," or "anti-Iraqi" forces. It's all fun and games for the propagandists, and it
doesn't alter the body count or the sticker shock--inevitably connected to our "not winning
the peace" in Iraq.... And also: while you've been entirely right about that mosque, can you
imagine Americans not paying a terrible price (on the ground in Iraq) if, for any reason, the
mosque happens to blow up?
War news from one of the 'war is over' zones
Warily negotiating the streets of Najaf as fighting rages in the city, August 22nd
Negotiating the streets of Najaf II, August 22nd
Inside the Imam Ali Shrine, Najaf, August 22nd
Iraqi girls outside their home, hit by artillery shell, Najaf, August 22nd
Home - damaged by artillery shell â€“ Najaf, August 22nd
Heavy clashes in Najaf as shrine handover suspended
4 US Marines killed in Iraq incidents
American spin â€“ number 63,789,058 â€“ â€˜Training the new Iraqi forces to take on
the countryâ€™s security demands and provide much needed stability.â€™
â€•â€¦the 330 ING recruits get just three weeks of training before being dispatched into
Iraq's roughest areas to take on insurgentsâ€¦.
"â€¦I only have three or four weeks. I can't make Rambo in that time," said Waldenfels,
adding that the basics of soldiering can nonetheless be taught in a short period of time.
"We need them, so it's important to shorten the processâ€¦."
"â€¦This is the exit strategy," said Maj. Bemis, looking out over a platoon of recruits
training to defend themselves against an insurgent ambush. "The success of these guys will
determine when we can actually leave."
US pins exit hopes on Iraq troop training
Hmmm, three whole weeks training, eh? And four for ING forces going to really volatile
areas? And thatâ€™s an EXIT STRATEGY? The obvious question arises â€“ is America
really serious about â€˜leavingâ€™?
Nemo: The obvious question arises â€“ is America really serious about â€˜leavingâ€™?
The obvious answer - it never was and it will not be until the losses become uncomfortable.
Well who exactly is?
A grieving mother is not fit to debate Iraq
Vomit-inducing opinion piece from 'controversial' right-wing Irish journalist writing for a
right-wing British newspaper. His unctuous, dismissive and patronizing tone reduces the
opinion and feelings of one who has actually paid a very real price for the attack on Iraq to
a display of emotional hysteria. No recognition of the rights of the thousands of Iraqi dead
or the pain of their families or the views and feelings of the families of the 1,000+ dead
soldiers of the 'multinational forces'.
The loathsome Myers, with his studied indifference to real suffering and loss and his
eagerness to outline 'what soldiers are for' is a fine, despicable example of the mechanical
mindset so eloquently described by Uncle $cam above.
Blair's note of sympathy truly reaches new depths
This article perhaps better places the wretch Myers' piece in perspective - clearly his work
is an attack on the Gentle family to counter the negative publicity they have generated
towards the Iraq war and towards Bush's poodle, Blair.
APA Proud of its Cover-up of Bush's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health:
American Psychiatric Association Says Bush Administration "Appreciative" of APA
Efforts to Suppress Mass Media Coverage of Facts and Stories Raised by the British
Medical Journal Series.
The American Psychiatric Association is bragging in its own membership newsletter that
they pleased the Bush Administration by successfully discouraging the mainstream media
from looking into the corruption exposed by the British Medical Journal in a recent series
of articles.
here
@Nemo
Kevin Myers?
I don't buy the Irish Times because of this Pro-Israeli Fascist.
Off Iraq - a good reference macroeconomics site
here:http://www.stern.nyu.edu/globalmacro/
CAROLYN WOOD â€“ come on down! â€“ your fifteen minutes of fame is about to
commence
Washington, DC, Aug. 21 (UPI) -- Investigators said Saturday some military personnel
implicated in the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal were involved in deaths and abuses of
detainees in Afghanistanâ€¦.
Iraq abusers linked to Afghan abuse
Abu Ghraib interrogators involved in earlier Afghan abuse probe
Bumbling
"â€¦After his arrest warrant was issued 10 days ago, Chalabi announced he was
returning from Iran to Baghdad to clear his name. Far from preparing the
handcuffs, Interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi begged him to stay away
until the situation was resolved. Less than 24 hours later, the Interior Ministry
announced it would temporarily suspend the warrantâ€¦."
In post-war Iraq the long arm of the law just isnâ€™t long enough
The law is a 7mar, a majnoon*
{*With apologies to C. Dickens Esq.}
Najaf - Shrine hit by US fire - report
@Nemo
No joy for the hawks on Iran. No US support for an Israeli first strike - not least because
the mission itself isn't do-able. Iranian talk of preemtion or retaliation for such a strike is
just that... talk. The Iranians know, like the North Koreans, that they're not on a hit list - and
that neocon/neolib wishes don't give birth to horses. Hell, we can't even gin up widespread
support for sanctions, nevermind military action. Iran is sitting pretty.
The road to Baghdad that was the centerpiece of this administration's Greater Middle East
initiative is, in reality, a road to nowhere. The first Middle East domino to fall by our hand
is also the last - which is why the War Party no longer puts out essays on grand strategic
ambitions. Its designs have shrunk to pseudo-humanitarian missions in African backwaters.
Why do some idiots yammer on about confronting Iran? Because our unfinished business
with al Qaeda is largely off the radar. They'll shut up (for awhile) when the shit hits the fan.
And hit the fan it will.
Worshippers - inside and outside the Shrine of Imam 'Ali, An Najaf
Bismillah - Inside the shrine at Najaf â€“ August 22nd
â€˜In the name of Godâ€™ - Catholic Mass for US troops, Najaf, August 15th. Celebrant
Lieutenant-Commander Paul Shaughnessy, a Marine chaplain
@Alabama
If this were a real war, the mosque would have long ago become a smoking hole in the
ground and al Sadr would be dead. Najaf and Fallujah would have largely ceased to exist or, at the very least, their male inhabitants either killed or carted off in massive 'police calls'
after evacuations of women and children. But it isn't a real war, is it? It's a joke, albeit not a
particularly funny one to those who have to do the daily dying in this half-assed,
half-baked, completely useless, thoroughly arbitrary, never ending Bush operation.
It's bad enough to pick a war where you don't need one. It's worse to be a pussy about it
when you do. That's what this mock-tough administration has written all over it.
@Pat 0741PM:
I can see what you say there very, very clearly>
Why can't others of my kind see this too?
Posted by: The Village Idiot | August 22, 2004 08:35 PM
Iraqi liberation
Al-Mehdi militia attack prison in Amara, southern Iraq, release prisoners
Yes, Pat. Was it ever a real war? Real soldiers fight real wars, and really fight them. They
get men and materiel into place, they game out the things that go wrong, and they never
move until they've answered the following questions: "if we take it, can we hold it? If so,
for how long? How to treat the population if we have to hold the territory and lack the
resources to keep the peace? Who do we buy, who do we kill, who do we export, and who
do we rape (rape can minimize the loss of life--it has this peculiar capacity to terrify
everyone, especially when ordered by commanders)? Most of all, can we stabilize things
long enough so that the locals will accept us for a particular while (the Germans did this
rather well in Normandy, and not so very well in other places)?" (more to come).
These are terrible questions, and I've never been sure that the training of a career officer
can ever school him or her in ways that minimize the loss of life. Though we didn't do
badly in Korea, we didn't do well in Viet Nam. But Iraq? What kind of obscenity is this?
Who let the fantasists take control? Did 9/11 actually cost us our civil courage? This
breakdown has wounded me in ways that will never heal. I have friends abroad who will
never truly trust me for the rest of my life, and I miss them with all my heart.
@alabama/pat
so help me here, are you saying that Bush(&co) are contemptuous because he is but a
drugstore cowboy?
@anna missed:
I will answer your question on the other thread, in a day or so, If I can get Bernhard's
permission. It is somewhat amusing and very painful to be slimed by anonymous people
about your military service. A more complete answer if Bernhard will allow it.
If you are still there, let's just discuss Pat's most recent post.
Posted by: Flash Harry | August 22, 2004 11:29 PM
@FlashHarry
Well I am just a little mystified by the Pat/Alabama discussion above, I'm fine with whats
on the other thread, though will apologize in advance if you took it personally, the
comment was directed at those making the charges toward Kerry.
No, anna missed, that's not what I was trying to say, though I can see where I might have
expressed myself a whole hell of a lot better. It's like this: war happens--and not often for
just causes, either. But it does happen, like any enterprise, and hence the standing army,
navy, air force, etc. Now let's just say that a war comes along--the "Korean peace action,"
for example. Up to a point, this war was fought well by the "UN forces" (meaning us).
Then came a tempting opportunity--to run straight up the peninsula to the Chinese border
(the North Koreans were folding). This we did in November of 1950, if memory serves,
and we did it disastrously, because we overextended our supply lines on the premise that
the Chinese would stand idly by. They didn't, of course, and so our troops had to beat a
hasty retreat through winter weather and rugged terrain, all the way back to the "Pusan
perimeter" (just across from Japan). (more)
The error here--really a mark of incompetence--was the decision to run up to the Yalu
without a carefully martialed campaign, one in which it was made very clear, mile by mile,
that the military was in complete control of the terrain (having made at least some of those
dreadful decisions mentioned above, and acted on them). But MacArthur wanted a quick
fix, and thought he could pull it off, so he abandoned the level of care required, and raced
right up to the Yalu. (more)
In an Iraqi graveyard death came quickly - exploding the myth of invincible technology
NAJAF, Iraq â€” To his buddies, 2nd Lt. Mike Goins looked indestructible
atop his Abrams tank as he maneuvered through Najaf's besieged cemetery.
His command of the 69-ton machine in the maze-like graveyard led a superior
to dub the 6-foot-3-inch soldier his "killer tanker."
"He loved that tank and believed he was invincible in it," said Capt. Kevin
Badger, commander of the "Mad Dogs" company of the 2nd Battalion, 12th
Cavalry Regiment. "He believed his training and his equipment could defeat
the enemy."
But a week ago, Goins and his loader, Spc. Mark Zapata, fell victim to a
surprise attack that stunned soldiers at the military base here for both its
simplicity and audacity. A member of rebel cleric Muqtada Sadr's Al Mahdi
militia quietly scaled the back of the tank in broad daylight with an AK-47,
shot the men at point-blank range through the open hatch, and fled.
Both soldiers were killed.
The attack exposed one of the tank's few vulnerabilities and served as a
reminder of the urban warfare risks U.S. soldiers face as they fight Sadr's
followers in Najafâ€¦.
Militia found a gap in US armor
The terrible disaster in Iraq is not so different from the calamity in Korea, but with this
major distinction: our military learned from WWII, Korea, and even Viet Nam, exactly
how carefully, patiently and thoroughly a war has to be fought. It's a serious and boring
affair. So along came the decision--don't ask me why--to wage a war in Iraq. This decision
was Bush's, and though I know of no responsible general who thought it was a good one,
they still took their marching orders from the Boy King--except that the Boy King hadn't
learned any of the hard lessons of preparation and occupation, things so hard to do well that
they often give rise to war crimes (consider the conduct of the Germans in the Ukraine at
the start of WWII, when they didn't have the wherewithal to occupy a Ukraine filled with
people, so they did what armies sometimes do in that situation, viz., massacre the
population. It wasn't wise, it wasn't humane, but it apparently pacified the Ukraine for a
while. (more)
You couldn't make it up
Critics warn of plan to sack 30,000 Iraqi police
$60,000,000 is a lot to pay for a move tantamount to rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic
@Anna Missed:
You were speaking of the Macro world; I was speaking of the micro. Hard for Macros and
micros to understand each other, although same things happen in both worlds.
I think Pat and BAMA are speaking of the DOG-EAT-DOG world. And their world is a
very real one
too.
Take Care Friend.
It's really hard to watch a three ring circus of human folly.
Posted by: Flash Harry | August 23, 2004 01:34 AM
When Pat speaks about "being a pussy about fighting a war," she means exactly what we've
been doing in Iraq. If we were serious, we'd have sent an expeditionary force of 500,000
troops over there, who would have had the wherewithal to capture Fallujah at a terrible
price. But Bush never gave them the wherewithal to do anything, and so the whole affair
has ended up looking terrible.
That's all I have to say right now, so I'll sign off with a warm salute to ya'll......
The terrible disaster in Iraq is not so different from the calamity in Korea, but with this
major distinction: our military learned from WWII, Korea, and even Viet Nam, exactly
how carefully, patiently and thoroughly a war has to be fought. It's a serious and boring
affair. So along came the decision--don't ask me why--to wage a war in Iraq. This decision
was young Bush's, and though I know of no responsible general who thought it was a good
one, they still took their marching orders from the Boy King--except that the Boy King
hadn't learned any of the hard lessons of preparation and occupation, things so hard to do
well that they often give rise to war crimes (consider the conduct of the Germans in the
Ukraine at the start of WWII, when they didn't have the wherewithal to occupy a Ukraine
filled with people, so they did what armies sometimes do in that situation, viz., massacre
the population. It wasn't wise, it wasn't humane, but it apparently pacified the Ukraine for a
while. (more)
We went into this war with total contempt for the enemy, and even for the terrain. No
preparation, no plan for occupation, no rational preparation for suppy-lines....the list is
really endless. And while losing sure isn't fun, I find it always very instructive.....
We went into this war with total contempt for the enemy, and even for the terrain. No
preparation, no plan for occupation, no rational preparation for suppy-lines....the list is
really endless. And while losing sure isn't fun, it's certainly rather instructive. But the folks
in the White House can't learn, and so the lesson's completely lost on them. Which is why
we aren't just voting them out in November--we're going to communicate to them, through
numbers they've never dreamed of, that they've failed utterly as leaders, soldiers and
ordinary human beings. And if we could only learn from our betters--and the Muslims,
right now, are our betters--we would also see their heads chopped off in a public square
with the biggest, brightest scimitar ever cast in steel, wielded, of course, by the finest, the
strongest, the most surehanded headsmen the Wahabis are willing to provide.
Thanks Alabama, To clear up the last bit of my confusion, and you need'nt have to answer
for Pat, but I'm seeing the issue you raise, as a serious one, regarding the general
degradation of effectivness of US military action to influence strategic aims. That the the
political throttle that has been placed upon the military (in every action since WW2) has in
someway (tragically?) reduced its intrinsic willpower and ability to deliver resounding
victory.
What I think I hear Pat saying, (un-sarcastically?) is that Bush should be admonished for
the continuation, of above said history, if not its intensification.That the most militarily
aggressive US foreign policy in decades has beached itself in a mud puddle? Or
(sarcastically?) that a genuine, real soldering," bring it on" military should/would rain holy
genocidal hell on all who dare resist or question our clearly stated goals of liberation?
Perhaps somewhere in the equation it should be noted that maybe (in the last 60 years)
we've had the right military for the wars we never fought and the wrong military for the
wars we have fought.
@alabama
my above post was to go above the last 2or3 of yours......you're moving way faster than me
here......thanks for the insights
Total war - the horror of it
Child soldiers square up to US tanks in Najaf
@alabama
In Imperial Hubris, the author lays out pretty well the most striking error in the initial stage
of OIF: speed for the sake of speed. We raced to Baghdad and that's all she wrote. War
over. Mission accomplished. Champagne uncorked.
How many in the White House knew that things would go to hell soon afterward? Was
Bush ever told that things would go to hell - or did his briefers feed him a lot of nonsense?
I'd like to know.
I'd also like to know why in the hell we're still in Iraq. For the life of me, I cannot fathom
what hopes anyone might have for another year, or two, or twenty of Operation Iraqi
Freedom. It became apparent last winter that the ambitions for a permanent US troop
presence, a la Korea, are unrealistic. The numbers don't matter anymore; 40,000 or 400,000
- it makes no difference. We aren't interested in securing the place and counterinsurgency is
not our bag. We can't afford to support a new government there and any government
backed by our guns is not long for this world. What's the point? What's to be gained?
Another Afghanistan? There is no rhyme or reason to it. There's not even a decent
conspiracy theory that can explain it. Why are so many still so willing to support and to
associate themselves with such an abysmal failure, such a historical blunder?
Pat, at the danger of being hopelessly naive yet again: Is it not, in terms of power politics,
expedient that the US keeps a massive military presence in the middle east, esp. in the
country with the 2nd/3rd largest known oil reserves? Otherwise, what would stop
US-phobic OPEC (and Russia, for that matter) from charging their customers in euros?
What kind of favourable conditions would the US get in their hunger for fossilized energy?
Would a withdrawal (I'm not saying we won't see one in the coming years) not be the
beginning of the end of worldwide US military dominance, if not in practice - that is
perhaps already the case - then in terms of prestige? OIF has let the cat out of the bag, and
more or less the entire Muslim world looks at the US as the ugly America of its worst
dreams. In most parts of the world, the image of the US has been better than it is now, to
put it mildly.
If the US of A are no longer being feared (and Bushco seems to love to rely on fear), what
is left? Hopes for benevolence and warm feelings from those parts of the world the US
have treated with unbelievable arrogance over the last years? Focusing on the motherland
while the US needs energy resources from far away areas? I'm not saying the US should
stay in Iraq, but now that the shit has hit the fan, there seems to be no decent way out that
would not harm US interests. (The interests of other nations do not enter into the equation
these days, do they?)
alabama: we didn't do badly in Korea
I have heard directly from two different Korean vets of mass killings of prisoners and
civilians. I don't think either of them is making it up.
Posted by: eb | August 23, 2004 04:19 AM
Korea â€“ where real war news took over fifty years to reach America
"We just annihilated them."
Norman Tinkler, former machine gunner, U.S. Army
The massacre at No Gun Ri, Korea
'Massacre in Korea' - Pablo Picasso (1951) â€“ based upon the No Gun Ri massacre
US military report of the No Gun Ri review - Findings â€“ January 2001 .pdf file
51 years later, Clinton expressed â€˜deep regretâ€™ for the massacre at No Gun Ri
Iraqis are telling Americans of war crimes now - but of course the propaganda war is still
running at full tilt...
@alabama
Since my husband returned I've reacquainted myself with the warrior's way of looking at
things, which is useful if you've got one handy. And I've come back to the estimate I
formed of George W. Bush in the weeks after 9-11 - namely, that the man is out his depth
in a very serious business with a rapidly shrinking margin for error and no one around him
is helping matters much. How much worse can one do, alabama, than losing not one, but
two wars within a span of four years - especially given that one of these was an entirely
optional campaign?
My mother will be voting for Kerry, with something less than great enthusiasm. Her hope is
that the advisers he chooses will be more competent than those who inform and instruct the
current president - a hope I do not share, though I'm sympathetic to those who harbor it.
Two months ago I was fairly confident that Bush is on his way out of the White House pushed by circumstances spiraling out of control. Now I'm not so sure. The Kerry campaign
has been depressingly inept. I'm not confident that Bush-loathing is enough, in and of itself,
to win him the election, though it has unified a Left otherwise badly in disarray.
@teuton
"Would a withdrawal (I'm not saying we won't see one in the coming years) not be the
beginning of the end of worldwide US military dominance, if not in practice - that is
perhaps already the case - then in terms of prestige?"
If the US withdraws from Iraq it is still the world's dominant military force. There's no way
to overstate the fact that we are militarily leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else. Would
the decline in prestige that a withdrawal brings about be worse than the decline in prestige
from sticking to, and failing to bring to a decisive end, our ill-advised and arbitrary
operation in Iraq? We can choose to leave on our own terms and according to our own
timetable or we can delegate that to really unpleasant circumstance.
@NEMO:
Thanks for the links to No Gun Ri above.
My best friend was in Korea in '51, and
he told me that incidents like No Gun happened
more than once or twice.
We've both given up trying to make any sense
of the NeoClown muscle-flexing show that is Iraq.
We've both almost given up reading about it too:
it makes us too angry.
On the human costs of this war, Richard
Cranium over at All Spin Zone has a hell of a
piece up --from the American point of view of
course.
Well worth a read.
Posted by: The Village Idiot | August 23, 2004 07:53 AM
Is it safe to say that the invasion and "war" were being engaged by the USA in terms of the
business model, w/ the overriding focus on the next quarter or short term gains and general
disregard for much outside of that? That's my understanding of the role that this
CEO-driven administration brings to the pattern. Rummie's overall restructuring of the
military and his objections to more experienced advice portend to this approach. As does
the strong PR management, which relies on controlling the daily spin. In short, and setting
all ideologies and abstractions aside, perhaps we need only look at who has actually
benefited from this crime to identify why it took place...
eb, was there ever a war without rape and massacre? I know about the massacres in Korea,
from the air as well as on the ground, and when I say "we didn't do badly," I only refer to
something like "holding and pacifying the territory gained". After MacArthur was fired, the
military seems to have conducted its affairs in ways really meant to secure the territory
held. And no matter how slowly, how patiently and how carefully we might have advanced
in the first place, the Chinese would have invaded all the same, but at least we might have
held the line as far north as Pyongyang, or, failing that, retreated in an orderly manner
(routs are no fun at all). (more)
teuton, I'm really, passionately, of Pat's mind on this one. We have to get out of Iraq as fast
as we can. The country can reconstitute itself, massacres and all, in a semi-secular manner,
and be governed by someone whose name is not Saddam Hussein. It's our own military that
I worry about: I think we could double or triple the size of our expeditionary force there
and still get all chewed up--because you don't win a guerilla war in someone else's territory.
Colonial history teaches us this elementary lesson, and even the Israelis are starting to get
the picture. This being so, where the hell do Bush and his people get off ignoring it,
especially when their adventure was so utterly pointless in the first place?
Pat, I'm relieved to hear your husband's back home. I remember he was gone for the 4th of
July, and I felt a little uneasy about that.
@alabama
"(O)ur military learned from WWII, Korea, and even Viet Nam, exactly how carefully,
patiently and thoroughly a war has to be fought. It's a serious and boring affair."
I don't think it's a serious affair anymore - not politically, anyway (and the
politically-minded includes many, too many, at the rank of colonel and above).
There are a number of reasons why it isn't a serious affair - chiefly, I would argue, because
with the exception of Afghanistan (which was blown in a big way) our operations have no
compelling reason behind them. They aren't necessary for our security. They're almost
extracurricular activities. Why treat seriously operations that serve no serious cause? This is
one thing in, say, Bosnia. It's another in South Asia and the Middle East. Habits of
unseriousness take hold and cling tenaciously even when you find yourself facing real
threats and grave challenges.
My father says that lessons learned are, after a time, always forgotten. They always must be
painfully relearned. I think he's right. And I think we will. But not without a terrible price.
I, for one, could do with a little neo-isolationist backlash about now. We could do without
the globe-trotting military and regain both our sanity and a little goodwill in the world. But
it isn't going to happen. So damn the torpedoes and to hell with the ankle biters: just get 'er
done, for Christ's sake.
Alas, Pat, history shows that you're Dad is absolutely right: as soon as we have a chance to
fight a war, and some folks point to the dangers involved therein, either the dangers
eventually prove to be exaggerated, or they prove to be somewhat surprising (as happened
in Viet Nam, for example). So no one was prepared in either case, but the second case is
arguably the more perverse: folks will be saying today that "we learned our lesson in Viet
Nam, and we won't make that mistake again!" and so they're really fighting that war a
second time, only getting it right this time-- except that the current war really isn't the last
one at all, so we're wrong-footed all over again. And as for the frivolity of this one! Has
anyone ever established that you need to own an oilfield in order to capture its oil (Jerome
and Roger Valdrin clued us in on this one? This is an exercise of no strategic value that I
can see--we sure haven't captured a lot of terrorists along the way--so the silliness of the
thing is at least as shameful as its corruption.
Maybe we shouldn't just settle for a neo-isolationist backlash. Maybe we should muster out
every man and woman in uniform, then wait for all hell to break loose and start all over
again, as we did in WW II.
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Moon of Alabama: In Memoriam August 19, 2003
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August 19, 2004
In Memoriam August 19, 2003
Salim Lone:
... The UN is precious - not because of its name, but because it struggles,
however imperfectly, to reach global consensus on the world's critical issues.
The fanatics who blew up the UN mission dealt a severe blow to its fortunes in
the Middle East. But more lasting damage is being done to the legitimacy of
this irreplaceable institution by demands to obey US dictates. If it continues to
bow to pressure, its capital will be squandered and its resolutions rendered
weightless for large chunks of humanity.
Member states and the secretary general should see this eroding legitimacy as
the greatest challenge the organisation faces. But they will be unable to make
effective headway unless the US itself recognises that it needs, in its own
interest, to show greater respect for the UN, from which it can learn to define
and pursue its own interests more wisely.
United Nations:
Observance of the First Anniversary of the Baghdad Tragedy
Comments
I didnâ€™t read the site. Too hard...
Here, today, the newspapers were filled with tributes for Sergio (Viera di Mello), as well as
the others who died. Double page of anniversaries. Two people in my office were crying.
We spoke about...all those who knew...who knew. We spoke about when me and Gab
occupied the offices that were Sergioâ€™s...(I work for the State, which occupied that
building before the UN took it over..)
One paper ran an inteview of Sergioâ€™s mistress, who was astonished that she had never
been questioned by anyone, except briefly, by the FBI. She survived the attack by leaving
the room some time before the bomb(s). The article went on to detail the abysmal security
that is still current at UN outposts, pointing out that a culture change is necessary.
Organising peace keeping missions with the casques bleus is not the same as protecting
oneself from â€˜terroristsâ€™.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/in_memoriam_19_.html (1 von 5) [16.11.2004 18:46:16]
All the articles (about 6, I read most of the Swiss press) castigated everyone for not coming
up with any culprits. They screamed: Who are the terrorists? Where is the police work?
What is Koffi Annan doing? Why is there a mission in Baghdad now, with no better
security? What is the use of security if one is a passive participant ? It can never be
adequate.
One article explained that Koffi is being blackmailed to keep a mission in Iraq.
The investigation of the irregularities (sanction - busters, cheaters, skimmers..) in the
oil-for-food program are in the hands of the Americans, as all the documents have been
requisitioned by them. Richard Goldstone, US (ex Yugo-int-tribunal, quit for health
reasons, more likely due to disagreement with Carla del Ponte about Milosevic, who can't
be convicted..?..) is part of the 3-man investigative team in the oil-for-food corruption
commission, and in the article the finger was pointed at him, subtly and indirectly, probably
unjustly as Paul Volcker, US, ex-Federal Reserve is in it too -- last member is a Swiss
lawyer, M. Pieth.
Each time Koffi refuses to send people to Iraq or makes noises about not being capable of
overseeing â€˜electionsâ€™, some nasty poison from the oil-for-food papers is put
forward, distilled, or leaked to the press.
So it was explained.
Remember Mary Robinson, she was hounded out of office by the USA.
She was left leaning and had integrity. This about matches Blackie's take on the good old
USA and the UN.
Just searched New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times for United Nations. Zero,
null, zilch on this sad aniversary. Google News says ABCnews and Boston Globe have
something, thats about it.
DoesnÂ´t say it all?
Koffi begged on bended knee for Mary Robinson not to quit. She stayed for an extra year,
crying with disgust. She was good, as outspoken as was possible.
"She was good, as outspoken as was possible."
Bet they (repugs) found some stuff to keep her silent, the same shit that they have on the
other leaders of the Coalition of the Killing.
McCreevy?
the UN *should* be a place for understanding between peoples and other positive stuff. fact
is that the UN never had a chance at this, and instead has always been a figleaf for american
and european imperial projects, pushing big enemas up the assholes of the poor nations full
with brown people if they wouldn't swallow the unsavory stuff forced on them by the US or
europe. robinson is the exponent of a minority with no effective influence on the deeds of
the UN.
they had the bombings coming at them, and they probably have other very ugly things
coming at them for their disgraceful role in too many crimes against humanity. its not like
the people don't see or are stupider just because they are browner (sic).
given the reality of the UN being a mere extension of the foreign ministries of the
"developed" nations, i can only say good riddance and fuck ya all to the UN !
@name
US Airforce delivering the coup de'tat to the Freedom Fighters and the UN at the moment.
Mary Robinson, minority, no real influence, yes.
Some UN employees are just like any other employees, do your job, get paid, that’s it.
Some are unashamedly on the gravy train, mostly these are posted or installed by their
Governments. Many others have a genuine humanitarian ethic, that is, to put it short and
sweet, they are on the side of the underdog. Some of these are naive, although that is
getting rarer these days. Others are well aware of the forces in play, but their attitude is, one
has to try anyway.
Sergio’s team in Iraq most likely belonged to the last category.
The Guardian article (Aug 2004), by Salim Lone, linked below, briefly describes the
burn-down of the Bremer - S. D. Viera relationship. It is rather restrained in tone, careful.
The second link (Dec 2002) is a typical interview of Sergio. On sanctions:
I would say that if the regime continues then I am afraid that the sanctions regime that the
Security Council has imposed on Iraq will also continue. And the Security Council being
the supreme organ in determining the rules when it comes to international peace and
security, there is no way that the United Nations agencies, humanitarian agencies, my
office, can derogate from those norms.
Humanitarian agencies have been actively involved in attempting to assist the Iraqi people
over the years. I was a member of a Security Council panel on the oil for food regime and
the sanctions imposed on Iraq. We did our best to improve the lot of the Iraqi people - let's
not forget that it also takes two to tango and the Iraqi government also has a great deal of
responsibility in terms of assisting its population and allowing the oil for food regime to
work better than it has.
On may see a man who covertly supports the West’s agenda; one may see a man who is
caught up in the contradiction, as he said at another time, of having to play second fiddle to
two powerful member states (US, GB); one may see a man despairing, therefore avid for
action once on the ground. All those interpretations are possible. Ultimately, it comes down
to a question of personal responsibility, and strategy, if one focuses on the personal rather
than the Institutional.
The UN does nothing but reflect power relationships in the world. Those who have clout
use it, often by simply paying money, or refusing to pay it, or by other means. A fig leaf for
imperial projects, yes. See from afar, disgusting; seen from below, sometimes, a window
for action, hope.
(But Iraq is a different story from ex-Yugoslavia.)
Link 1
Link 2
Mary Robinson committed the one single fatal mistake that gets you shot in every
organisation where the US has any significant power, she decided to do the right thing and
go after Israel's crimes. I hope Louise Arbour won't get shot too quickly; looks like she
doesn't want to allow the usual shit to go on.
Concerning De Mello, it's worth noting that US troops were withdrawn a few time before
the bombing and that some UN people asked for a bit more of security, but the US didn't
bother to. Heck, they didn't do it when the ministries, the National Library and the National
Museum were looted and destroyed.
One could also wonder if someone or some group didn't find it convenient to actually scare
the UN out of Iraq and get rid of De Mello once and for all. Some powers are already
finding that Annan doesn't obey them enough now, and De Mello would probably have
been a stronger will. But I shouldn't mention such tinfoil hat theories; it's not as if officials
of the biggest powers on Earth ever conceived terrorist acts against their own country just
to push it to war. I mean, Operation Northwoods is just straight from a SF novel, isn't it?
@ blackie:
i myself and other members of my family have worked in different capacities and positions
for the UN. the people i met were bureaucrats, careerists, political appointees, spies.
common traits were incompetence, subordination and the feeling of being something
special, over and above the people outside the UN colony (hey, they can't buy cheap at the
depot like us). what i never met at the UN was anybody who gave a cold fart for whatever
happened anywhere outside the UN bubble.
the world needs a UN, but it needs a UN without the USA and without israel, the IMF, the
WB, and with another way of arriving at decisions. permanent presence in the security
council, veto powers and such should have no place in an institution supposedly for the
common good.
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Moon of Alabama: Unintended Consequences
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August 18, 2004
Unintended Consequences
From gung-ho in Najaf to closing cinemas in Thailand:
Just five days after they arrived here to take over from Army units that had
encircled Najaf since an earlier confrontation in the spring, new Marine
commanders decided to smash guerrillas loyal to the rebel Shiite cleric
Moktada al-Sadr.
8-Day Battle for Najaf: From Attack to Stalemate
Imagine a Muslim army about to bomb the Vatican with the help of a few
Christian mercenaries while the Pope is away, recovering from an angioplasty
in London and silent about the whole drama. This is roughly what is
happening in Najaf ...
Besides the Shrine of Imam Ali, there are graves of other prophets of Allah Prophet Adam and Prophet Noah. Abraham the patriarch and his son Isaac
once bought land in Najaf in what is now called the Valley of Peace - none
other than the gigantic Wadi al-Salaam, the world's largest cemetery...
A unifying factor across Iraq
A U.S. warplane bombed Najaf's vast cemetery as fighting with Shiite
militants intensified...
Peace Bid & U.S. Bombs Hit Najaf
Iraqi Defence Minister Hazem al-Shaalan on Wednesday demanded Shiite
militants in the holy city of Najaf surrender within hours, or the Iraqi troops
would launch a large-scale attack on them.
Najaf militants given hours to surrender or face lesson
"We set ablaze an oil well in Amara. This is a simple warning to the
government of [Prime Minister Iyad] Allawi and to occupation forces, that we
will bomb the main south oil export line if they do not leave Najaf within 48
hours and end the siege," said the statement signed by The Secret Action
Group of The Imam Mahdi Army.
Violence flares as delegation quits Najaf
Oil prices surged over $47 a barrel on Wednesday on evidence that energy
costs are not substantially slowing the economic growth that fuels oil demand
and fresh threats by rebel militia against Iraqi oil facilities. ...
Some Asian countries, increasingly worried about oil prices, are planning
measures to conserve energy or to cushion its impact. Thailand is drafting
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/unintended_cons.html (1 von 8) [16.11.2004 18:46:21]
plans to encourage shops and cinemas to close early, while South Korea
may consider cutting oil tax rates at the end of August, in a bid to shield the
economy from red-hot oil prices.
Oil Hits Record, Rebels Hit Iraqi Wells
Comments
In the 80s the US funded and prompted and delighted in the Iraq/Iran inter-arab war.
I suspect Reagan thought his support was the Christian thing to do...
And now--to paraphrase Ron-- "here we go again": only this time we got the Iraqi's doing
the internecine emasculation dance.
Does a sentence akin to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" appear anywhere in the
Bible?
Because I tell ya: this bold Christian nation sure has a knack for getting arabs to kill arabs.
[Aside:
It is the strangest thing.
But everytime my eyes read the phrase Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, my brain somehow
rewires it to read: Prince Allawi. Everytime. ]
As if there is not enough going on in the middle east we now have another line in the sand
I wonder how this is going to shake out. Lots of folks who hang out here seem to think we
will see sometime in October. I just hope we continue to have winds that blow toward the
south (away from me) so that nasty fallout lands on somebody else.
four civilians were killed and another four injured when caught in crossfire
between "multi-national forces" and "anti-Iraqi forces," according to a
military statement.
Sad news from the Washington Post Sadr Signals He Will Accept Peace Plan.
But why are they using quotation marks? Did they ran out off kool-aid?
Do these guys look intelligent or what? An Najaf, August 18th
Mays, a young Iraqi weeps after her uncle was injured by mortar fire, Najaf, August 18th
Basra, August 18th
Patrolling Basraâ€™s streets, August 18th
Mother and son, Mosul, after mortar attack that killed 6 and injured over 20 - August 18th
And lo, Jesus went in among the poor and the wretched and the downtrodden â€“ and
fought against them. Captain Jesus Salas, 1st Cavalry Division, Sadr City, Baghdad,
August 18th
Building under US fire, Najaf, August 18th
Locals, Sadr City, August 18th
Preparing mortar, Sadr City, August 18th
Not coming to your pumps â€“ oil tanker, Tikrit, August 18th
b,
I would wait a little while for the truth of whatever 'deal' al-Sadr believes he is involved in
to be assessed against the 'al-Sadr capitulates to threats from rough, tough, big strong
Allawi government' line being spun frantically at the moment.
Al-Sadr's position, militarily, in Najaf may not be a strong one even though his militia is
well capable of sitting it out in a defensive posture for the foreseeable future. It is not
al-Sadr's stock which has been falling with every passing day that US forces have been
unable to dislodge or defeat him. And his militia is not broken in Sadr City, Basra or other
centers.
There is a propaganda war being waged to marginalize, demonize and limit the growing
popularity of al-Sadr and it serves Allawi above all others to present the current talks and
the outcome as a form of capitulation.
Currently al-Sadr is still calling for a halt to US military operations in and an American
withdrawal from An Najaf and I suspect that his eventual terms, and his understanding of
their import, will differ considerably from the line being spun at present.
It is unfortunate that the media engages in these 'analysis wars' because sooner or later we
all have to return to the truth of a situation. And as we all know well, saying something is
so doesn't make it so.
Well, Sadr already said he would "withdraw forces" from Najaf when the first truce was
made months ago. Though it was meant as "non-local militias would withdraw, the others
keep their guns". So one can wonder how it's interpreted by the Shiite insurgents this time.
Probably not the same interpretation than the American one, for sure.
Koreyel: if I wanted to be cynical, I would say that right now Chinese, Russians and quite a
lot of Europeans can say "there we go again" when watching Americans and Arabs,
including some jihadi lunatics, going after each other. Not that they won't feel the spillover
sooner or later; experience and history should show that when the a power encouraged
Afghans and Soviets to go at each other's throat, it came back to haunt it.
No surprises to this story - other than it got out...
US troops training for Iraq in Israel - report
Make-up tips â€“How to look good with the use of cosmetics
It wasn't last year's bomb but American policy which destroyed the UN's hopes in Iraqâ€¦
â€¦Clearly, the Bush administration had eagerly sought a UN presence in occupied Iraq as
a legitimising factor rather than as a partner that could mediate the occupation's early end,
which we knew was essential to averting a major conflagrationâ€¦.
Doubts over al-Sadr peace deal
Incidentally, fighting has been raging all through the night in Najaf. It is 7.10am in Iraq
now and the fighting has not let up.
Chaos and farce as Iraq chooses first assembly
â€¦There also are the untold thousands of Iraqis dead and wounded as well. But, as one
Pentagon spokesman told me, "They don't countâ€¦."
Kerry deals away his ace in the hole
HOW MANY bad apples? Depends on what you mean by 'a few' I guess...
US Army poised to charge 24 people in Abu Ghraib case
Clashes erupt in Najaf despite peace plan
â€˜Slightly over 50â€™ Iraqis killed in Sadr City fighting â€“ US military
TomDispatch has part two of his Iraq series online:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=1687 He has some interesting stuff about
the US strategy in Iraq and much to say about the US media and the words choosen do
describe the imperia and itÂ´s enemies.
@b
Thanks for the TomDispatch link.
Show really how much the media is in the control of the Neocons.
Waco, Texas -- Militia groups and others who don't trust the government use one word
when making their case: Waco.
They still get angry over the deaths of nearly 80 people a decade ago in an inferno at a
religious compound near Waco, ending the group's 51-day standoff with federal agents.
---Why are the Iraqis that wear those fine business suits so eager to wack the robed Iraqis
holed up in their religious compound?
Is some puppeteer yanking them by their red ties into the fray? Or are they just
overseas-ignorant to the lifelong firestorm they will unleash upon themselves?
True the Branch Davidian's were Christians...and those holed up in Najaf are dirty
Muslims--but shouldn't Al-Sadr be given at least 51 days to stew in his pot as well?
Or are we seeing yet again that the puppeteers just don't like to do nuance/negoitiation very
much?
After all blowing things up is not only more expedient...but much more fun too.
Images of conflict
Outgoing - sending the British a message, Basra, August 18th
More shadow than substance - Condoleezza Rice speaks of 'Waging the War of Ideas in the
Global War on Terror', Washington, August 19th
Why does everyone say that George Bush and I have some kind of sick relationship?
Letâ€™s be perfectly frank â€“ George isnâ€™t all that big a guy â€“ know what I mean?
Pro-Allawi Iraqi military forces, the governor's residence, Najaf, August 19th
Scene of the clash of superpowers â€“ Najaf, August 19th. A place where relatively small
numbers of Iraqi people armed with light weaponry are holding off the military might of
the USA
US soldier SFC Shannon Compton from 2/7 Cavalry and the Oregon National Guard
locates the source of a suspicious bright light he believed militiamen were using to
illuminate his fellow soldiers in Najaf. The light is known to most people as â€˜the sun'
Worried looking US troops, Najaf, August 19th
American peace-making, Najaf, August 19th
US airstrike, Najaf, August 19th
Second airstrike, Najaf, August 19th
American respect for the Holy City of Najaf, August 19th
Unbroken, Najaf, August 19th
â€¦.Analysts expect many of the fence-sitters within Iraq's Shiite community to turn
decisively on the US presence and the interim government if they damage the mosque and
martyr Sadrâ€¦..
Besieging holy sites past lessons
Comment to NemoÂ´s list:
Bloomberg: Al-Sadr Rebellion's Defeat Tied to Allawi's Success, Oil Flow
The defeat of Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's rebellion is critical to
Iraq's political transition and increased oil production, Iraqi officials and U.S.
policy analysts said. ...
At stake are the flow of Iraqi oil, elections in Iraq scheduled for January and
support for President George W. Bush in the U.S.
Media relations in the â€ñew free Iraq' ("You can't handle the truth" - and someone
doesn't want you to even know it)
"We are going to open fire on this hotel. I'm going to smash it all, kill you all, and I'm
going to put four snipers to target anybody who goes out of the hotel. You have brought it
upon yourselves."
An Iraqi police lieutenant to journalists in Najaf.
In Iraq, stifling press undermines democracy
It is 2.30am in Iraq and a massive US aerial bombardment of Najaf has begun,
accompanied by a major tank assault. Der Tag comes in the early morning sometimes for
Iraqis.
Tomorrow is the day of prayers in all muslim counties. What will be the message given
from the pulpit?
@nemo
It's all fucked up for Bush and Blair. Sadr may well be killed in the last offensive but with
Sistani being away, he's the shi'ite hero.
Washington Post: For Iraqis Preparing to Invade Shrine, First an Internal Battle reports who
the Iraqi troops are, that are training to storm the Najaf shrine.
"Training-wise, we're ready," said Lt. Col. Yarab Hashimi, who was a pilot in
the Iraqi armed forces until he escaped the country in 1993.
...
Hashimi said he regards the designation of shrines as a tradition imported from
India, and not essential to Shiite belief. Of the Imam Ali shrine, he said, "It is
not a holy place."
That appears to be a distinctly minority view, even among his 500 men.
...
The battalion is a deliberately motley collection that is eight months old. U.S.
trainers drew its members from the five exile opposition groups that joined
with the U.S.-led military forces that toppled the government of Saddam
Hussein.
Each of the groups was asked to contribute 120 men: the two Kurdish parties,
the Iraqi National Congress headed by Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National
Accord headed by current Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, and the Supreme
Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a Shiite group then based in Iran.
Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress provided the core, a pickup team of fighters
hastily assembled in the Kurdish-held north of Iraq and flown south during the
war, when Chalabi's star still burned brightly in the Pentagon. Today, about
half the battalion is Kurdish, a disproportionate share, in part because
volunteers from the Shiite party chose to step down rather than fight Iraqis in
Fallujah, according to one adviser. Others dropped out as the battle for Najaf
loomed.
My take: Without US troops entering the Shrine with them (and without the consequences),
these guys will not be able to do anything significant.
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Moon of Alabama: CPI: Camouflaging Price Increase
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« Bad Choice | Main | Unintended Consequences »
August 18, 2004
CPI: Camouflaging Price Increase
Either some journalists have no idea of math or economic numbers, or persistent general
price increases do not make good headlines when wages are stagnant.
Yesterday the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) published the newest Consumer Price
Index (CPI). Today some media come up with these headlines:
●
The Journal News - Prices drop in July
●
Independent - US prices fall as housing market grows
●
Forbes - Consumer Prices Decline, Housing Rebounds
●
Reuters - Consumer Prices Drop, Industry Output Up
●
Toronto Star - US consumer prices dip
These headlines contradict what US friends tell me. What happened? Picked up BLS table
CUUR0000SA0 (Not seasonally adjusted, U.S. city average, All items) and crunched it to show the
year-over-year inflation rate:
The inflationary year-over-year increase in consumer prices, as measured by the BLS,
was 3,0% for July 2004 - slightly smaller than the 3.3% y-o-y increase for June 2004.
BTW: There are valid reasons to believe, that the CPI, as measured by the government, is significantly
smaller than the inflation that actually occurs. Well, if you would have to increase your payments for
social security recipients, veterans, interests for TIPS-bonds etc. in line with the CPI increases, would you
not like to tweak the numbers down a little bit?
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/cpi_camouflagin.html (1 von 3) [16.11.2004 18:46:24]
Comments
Bernhard, this has been touched upon not so long ago (by Billmon? can't bother to check),
but journalists seem to have difficulty grasping the difference between a decrease in the
"stock" or underlying variable, and a increase of its "variation" or rate of change/derivative.
Supposing that the numbers in your graph are correct, price inflation (the derivative) did
indeed go down in July, but prices (the underlying variable) went up.
We talk so much about inflation that it has become in many discourses to prices, thus "price
went down" instead of "inflation went down"
But, but, math is sooo hard...
Why is it my eye's glaze over when seeing graph's and charts and statistics?
Could it be as Mark Twain said,
"Most people use statistics the way a drunkard uses a lamp post, more for support than
illumination." and years upon years of lying using same?
Exactly, JÃ©rÃ´me. That said, when inflation actually goes down and you have a real
deflation, economists and markets act panicked as well, so the main powers behind the
economy actually don't want to see prices drop. Bottom line: whatever happens, the
average citizen-customer gets screwed.
@Clueless Joe
How does the average citizen gets screwed by deflation?
Barnhard: What better excuse do you need to lower wages?
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« Bad Choice | Main | Unintended Consequences »
Moon of Alabama: Bad Choice
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Off Topics - Open Thread | Main | CPI: Camouflaging Price Increase »
August 17, 2004
Bad Choice
Looking at the US election from the outside, makes one wonder about the choices
presented. On the one side Bush, elite offspring with deep relations to big money, on the
other side Kerry, elite offspring with deep relations to big money. There are some nuances
and probably Kerry would be "not as bad as Bush".
Judging from his speeches, he is as belligerent as Bush, while trying a little longer on
multilateralism. He "defended the nation" in Viet Nam and promises to do the same as
president - defended the nation in Viet Nam??? His economic points are slightly less to the
right than Bushes, but does anybody believe, that whoever paid into his record election
funds will not present the bill and will get the contracted payback?
The alarm is sounded that the progressives have to vote for Kerry - Anything but Bush - but
then, where is the hope of change? As George Monbiot says in his Guardian column today,
the same alarm bells rang in 2000 and the same alarm bells will ring again in 2008, 2012,
2016.
as a representative democracy. This change will not come through voting for the lesser evil.
There is a need for positive votes. Vote for the political direction you stand for, not against
those politics you do not stand for. If the balance is tilted to the far right, put your weight
on the very left pan to nudge it back. Voting for the middle can not change the reading on
the scale.
As has been seen in many European countries, the introduction of alternative political
powers takes years, maybe two or three decades. It will have to start at the local level,
scramble into state policy and in ten, fifteen years, it may be able to really compete on the
national level. It may falter there, but then it will have done enough damage to the
democrats polls, to pull that party back to the left pan of the balance.
If this has the consequence of putting Bush back into the seat for another four years, we
will see bad things coming. If Kerry wins the seat, the times will likely be similar
uncomfortable. The economics of the next four years will be terrible - no matter who wins
this election. There are structural imbalances that will break in an earthquake-like
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/bad_choice.html (1 von 31) [16.11.2004 18:46:41]
correction. Here one would rather like to see Bush suffer the consequences of his deeds,
than see the democrats made responsible for this and be damaged for the next decades to
come.
Anything but Bush is like putting the finger on the middle of the scale. It does not change
the reading. ItÂ´s a bad choice.
Comments
Bernhard, an "earthquake-like correction"? You sure? What`s to be done in that case? Will
we see 1929 all over again, only worse?
I have felt for a while that a (non-jargonistic) discussion of 'the prudent mini-investor's
strategies' is overdue. Could help save some of us a lot of money; some of our friends in the
US might be saved from bankruptcy. You know, other alternatives except dying at 60.
What do you all think?
Bravo! Bernhard, excellent take. That's why I'm tempted to vote Bush, as I have said before
not because I like him or his policies, because I feel he and his ilk are sociopath's, however,
my whole family is dying (literally and figuritively) of poverty the myth of "really"
changing your station in life is just that a myth; hopefully, they will bring this "entropy
nation" crashing to it's knees faster with four more years. Sure a lot of people will be hurt,
but they're hurting anyway. Whats death to the caterpillar is life to the Butterfly.The rebirth
we be beautiful. Praise Kali!
OT Sky news showing an APC by an RPG being taken out in Sadr City.
Sky (unusually) commentator scathing of US policies and tactics.
Bernhard - I agree with the economic diagnosis (the dollar will fall and interest rates will
go up - a lot) but not at all with your suggestions on the vote.
Bush is so bad that he has to go. Having the American people endorse his policies would be
a catastrophic signal - to the neocons and the administration to try for even more, to the rest
of the world that the USA are officially and irrevocably insane. This is a recipe for WWIII.
Positive reasons to vote for Kerry exist, and are stronger than you seem to think, but it is
true that they are overshadowed by this need for sanity that ABB represents.
The fact that Kerry is being called "Bush lite" comes from his smart campaign to avoid
giving too much of a target to the Republicans and the media. We've had this debate before
(that he should stand for a real alternative) and I argued, with others, that in the current US
context (dominated by fear and a rabidly partisan republican side), anything less bland
would have been demolished, as Dean was. Kerry has managed to brush non stop attacks
(the "flip-flopping", the intern affair, the "Taxassuchets liberal", the rewriting of his
Vietnam years) and he is still standing. Once in power, hopefully with a more favorable
Congress, he will be able to speak with more freedom.
If you want real change, vote for the more liberal candidates for the House and Senate AND vote Kerry, who will then have a real liberal base to push him and support him to act.
I just posted this at "Gods and Daemons" but it is the difference between Kerry and Bush in
*my* mind and scares the shit out of me. Not to mention the dry drunk and the finger on
the code and all that...
...and thanks, Jerome.
Robert Novak said yesterday that if Bush loses, he thinks the Republican Party will
implode.
All the religious nuts in the Republican Party will get blamed and the traditional, fiscal
conservatives will fight them to get back their party.
Lots of Republicans I talk to here hate Bush.
If his loss would mean the beginning of the destruction of the religious right as a political
force in this country, I cannot think of anything that would be better for this nation and the
world at this time.
ymmv
My view of the coming 4 to 8 years ain't pretty.
Whichever party is in power in Washington is not going to be able to make much
difference when it comes to the economy, or more to the point, the energy which powers
the economy and everything else.
Have you all yet read or really grasped the significance of what Stan Goff article,
â€œKerryâ€™s Energy Planâ€• is portending?
It is a long article but to get to the significant energy evaluation scroll down to the last
major section â€œThe Partyâ€™s Overâ€•. There is his discussion of the hard facts of
Physics that apply to our world as oil availability declines. Quite simply, the bottom line is
that there is no practical alternative to oil and the world edifices that we mostly take for
granted cannot and will not last in the form we know them without the energy we get from
oil. And that includes most everything.
I too teuton, am concerned with the prudent mini-investor's strategies. I think that the most
valuable investments we can be making today will be aimed at securing access to the most
basic elements for survival: food, fuel for heating/cooking, tools and infrastructure that
donâ€™t depend on oil, etc. I donâ€™t believe that for the prudent, life will necessarily
have to digress back to stone age. In fact I believe there will be opportunities for local
economies to prosper both materially and spiritually. I forecast a higher quality of life as
our species consciousness is freed from the oil age mentality our cultures have imbued for
the last century. Whats death to the caterpillar is life to the Butterfly. Uncle $cam.
On Bernhardâ€™s â€œChoiceâ€•, I think that slowing down the headlong rush toward the
precipice will give us just a little more time and breathing space to readjust our
â€œportfoliosâ€•. I recommend voting Kerry for this purpose, if you are in a state where it
might make a difference. Here in Vermont, Iâ€™ll probably make a statement and vote for
one of the more progressive candidates because Kerry wonâ€™t need my vote.
One last point. I think that local and state choices can and should be made that could
influence a more progressive future.
a vote for kerry is definitely far left of bush. i completely agree w/ jerome that he is
walking a very thin line in this campaign. once in office i have no doubt he would govern
very differently than bush. bush is unelected, what an embarrassment if after all we've been
through he finally gained his presidency thru legitimate means. never would i sink so low
and have so little faith to cast my vote for that evil man, never.
Posted by: annie | August 17, 2004 09:50 AM
Bernhard,
remember that "the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step".
A "landslide" to the progressive will not happen without a huge threat to the status quo. The
"New Deal" and "Great Society" were both reactions to the threat of communism.
Unthreatened, the ruling class now acts with impunity - in 1980, the avaergae CEO made
40 times that of the average worker - in 2004 it is 400 times.
I agree that we desperately need there to be a threat to the ruling class, to keep them in line
a little. If you want a landslide to the left, organize the poor to vote.
Maybe Americans will not have to choose at all. Read today's column by Krugman.
Amazing that such questions even come up in a country that prides itself to be the 'greatest'
democracy in the world.
Saving the Vote
Fran's link
But it has been suggested that they won't try the same trick twice. While everyone's
attention is on Florida, I expect something unforeseen elsewhere.
Fran or beq,
Any way to get to Krugman w/o signing into the New Pravada?
Maybe a short cut & paste of a pertinent quote?
Juannie
Use mediajunkie for username and password
works for lots of places
Well, sorry. I'm probably one of the most uber-leftist and revolutionary here around, but I
beg to differ. As was said, voting for the most progressive on state level is fine and should
be encouraged, be it State Congress or Representatives for DC.
In fact, in other conditions I would agree with your point (for instance, in Clinton vs Dole
96). In fact, I think it's stupid to blame Nader for 2000, clearly. The issue was the electoral
college and Florida fraud. Not to mention that no one can be sure that, without Nader, Gore
would've had 600 more votes.
In fact, I would basically agree with your whole point in another situation, for instance back
in 96 with Clinton vs Dole, or 92 or even 88; I would make exceptions for Reagan, Nixon
and most of all W. There is a reason why even Chomsky openly calls to vote Kerry to oust
Bush, stating it's fine to vote Nader in sure Kerry states or in massively pro-Bush states â€“
which will allow him to vote Nader -, but it's safer to vote Kerry in swing states. I can see
the point that Bush keeping the presidency would ruin the system and crash it. In fact, I alas
don't expect much differences from Kerry in foreign policies, though imho he'll be far
better in US domestic policies â€“ and I clearly value more foreign change than domestic
one -; though on the scientific and environmental issues Kerry is just as progressive as
Dean for instance, which matters a lot.
Yet I would have to ask Bernhard if he would've preferred to vote Hitler or social-democrat
in 1932, and if it would've been a good argument to say "I hope Hitler will remain in power
a few years to completely screw the Nazi Party, then the Communists will take over."
There is just one key reason why I don't think calling for Nader or Bush is wise. If Bush
actually rules for an entire 2nd mandate of 4 years, it simply won't matter who will win in
2008, there won't be anything to save. By that I don't mean Earth will have been
systematically nuked, but the damages to environment and the poison in international
policies and relationship will be so bitter that mankind and a good deal of life on this planet
will be doomed, no matter what comes next - that is, even if Nader is elected and Greens
take majority of both Houses in 2008, they won't be able to save mankind after 4 more
years of Bush and fundie/neo-con reign.
My personal opinion is very simple: if Bush wins in Novembre, either the American people
goes into full revolution mode and ousts him and his fascist party in a few months, or
everyone outside the US will be fully legitimised and even morally obliged to actually kill
every single American citizen they can lay their hands upon. If Bush "wins", either the US
does a civil war and destroys him and his party, or the rest of the world will have to do the
scouring.
Make no mistake, this is the real choice the American people will face in the election.
And believe me, since it's obvious the current economic-social-politc systems are basically
ruining the planet and dooming mankind, I'm all for seeing a major crisis that would swipe
them away, and one that should come as early as possible, because the longer we go on like
this the lesser our chance of survival, long-term speaking. I also fear that can only be done
in a pre-emptive strike because the system won't fall under its own weight unless it's too
late and people won't react, rebel and try to find a solution until they're already dying in
droves.
So, as I said in the Annex, if Uncle$cam and others are ready to stock ammos and guns for
3 Novembre and will then take the streets, build barricades, assault TV stations, barracks,
govt buildings, GOP offices and the like, more power to them and I have no criticism to
make; otherwise, well, it's just a totally suicidal decision, literally.
Posted by: CluelessJoe | August 17, 2004 12:26 PM
Sorry, Juannie, I thought the link I posted would go straight to the article. :(
Juannie, here is an open link to Krugmans Saving the Vote
BTW: Nearly all Paul Krugman stuff is available at www.pkarchive.org - the unofficial
Paul Krugman site. Kurgman "disavows any knowledge of its contents". The NYT editorials
are under "Columns" and usually up to date.
Dan of Steel,
Thanks a bunch.
"mediajunkie" worked like a charm. I've always been frustrated by not getting access w/o
registering with the major online media.
I learn something most every day from the Moon.
@CluelessJoe
I agree with most of what you say but I sold all my guns years ago. If it comes down to that
scenario I think the biggest guns will win out and my old 12 gauge, 303 & colt 45 would
probably get me into more trouble than I could possibly handle, especially at my age.
Iâ€™m betting on a major species consciousness renaissance. Naive? Maybe, but with
todayâ€™s technologically advanced killing systems, I donâ€™t see any other alternative
than extinction.
I hate thinking about shit like this but I canâ€™t put it to rest. I wake up in the middle of
the night with thoughts like these on my mind, meditate for a while to put them to rest, but
they just come back again later. The bifurcation is at our doorstep. I just pray for the
courage to continue on and see it all through and hope I can be proud enough of my efforts
at the end to know I was of some help to my survivors.
On Florida: Jeb will never let his state's electoral votes go to Kerry. Never. They've had
several more years to tune the fraud system there, and from all appearances they don't
really care who knows it. After all, they have the supremes in their pocket, and congress
and the press and Ashcroft, so whatever happens after Nov.2 is under their control. That
means any and all crimes committed by the regime will be swept under the rug and
forgotten. O there will be a huge outcry all right, but what ya gonna DO?
Other swing states are also rigged you can bet.
Revolution is the only answer I am afraid, and it will be very ugly.
For what it's worth, I don't expect the regime to succeed in this beyond a few months to a
year; many of them should be killed or imprisoned within that time. Still very nasty tho
isn't it.
I am hoping for some help from Europe.
But I thort Bush was improvifying educashun and the ekonummy?
Nation's Charter Schools lagging behind, U.S. test scores reveal
Gap between haves, have-nots gets wider
Voting for Bush? I don't get it.
@rapt I am hoping for some help from Europe. Moral help - yes, financial - maybe a
covered trickle, physically - no way.
I take the November election to be a referendum on Bush's competence. "Competence" is
an ideological value shared--or worshipped?--by both parties, and Bush has always
troubled Republicans on this score. Jim Jeffords, for example, left the party out of impotent
fury at Bush's incompetence in the handling of federally mandated medical bills. Bush is
losing these people, and if he really scares them, they'll return the Senate and the House to
the Democrats (whence, I believe, that bizarre lineup of speakers at the RNC).
Uncle Scam, yes, reactions against the present US president are so virulent, having them
dampened because someone else is sitting may postpone the cataclysm, meltdown, or
whatever one wants to call it. The urge to be done with it all is strong. Waiting for doom is
dreadful, particularly when the present situation is dire, the threat is formless, and one does
not know how to prepare. Clueless Joe mentions the possibility of an American Revolution
if Bush ‘wins’.
However, if Bush looses, as anon points out, it is possible that the Republican party as it is
now will not survive. I’ve been thinking that for a long time, but I only read about such
matters on the internet (more biased, extremist, not in touch with mainstream America, etc.)
From this distance, it looks like some considerable % of Bush supporters are not
Republicans, although they may like to claim that identity, as a badge of support for the
incumbent. They are fundies (religious..), racists, warmongers, people who are left out and
require a strong, agressive leader who they feel “is one of them”, people who care nothing
for politics but are habituated by the TV and deal with insecurity by adhering to authority.
In their own way, some of these people --I guess-- have exactly the same underlying
opinion as you express. They know (or suspect) that the world is FUBAR, and the only
thing to be done is to move forward agressively and see what falls out. They also hope to be
on the winning side, and one can hardly blame them for that. That explains (to me) the
surprising contradiction that many working-class people, who are being royally screwed
over, vote (voted, plan to vote..) for a leader who does not represent their interests in any
way (unions, schooling, medicare, taxes, etc.) These people, in my imagination, are people
who have checked out of the political process that supposedly exists in a democracy and
prefer, rather than withdrawing completely (the percentage who do that is large as well..) to
give allegiance somewhere. That means, as well, that they will blank out criticism, will not
perceive lies, will behave like dumb ‘groupies.’ There is nothing else left for them. Nor by
the way is there for the staunchly progressive, the radical green, etc. (They may cast a vote,
but only in the perspective that Bernhard describes - slow change.) Some Bush voters
expect doom (though they will not express it), and react as best as they can. I think the
fundie Christians, although they have been manipulated to vote for Bush, are particularly
sensitive to the present horrors, and so -- to stretch a point -- they are ready to vote for
someone who will push forward to Armageddon. The final Rapture, say, will put a stop to
all these earthly problems and ensure victory of a kind.
If Bush loses, the rag-tag collection of Bush supporters will split. If any coherent
alternative presents itself, many will go for it, and the religious right would melt like ice on
the North Pole, that is, slowly and steadily. Republicans will devolve into smaller units, and
the divisions will make things clearer. If that happens, it would be a good thing, as it would
be a shake-up...( = Today’s optimistic, indeed somewhat fantastical, predictions..hope
burns eternal...)
The choice between Bush and Kerry is no choice, as all the discussion shows: it
concentrates on calculation, interpretation, prediction of future behavior; mechanics of
elections, such a fraud; considerations about world problems that are apparently related to
the political agenda only with difficulty (energy, climate..)
There is no strong, whole-hearted support for either of the two candidates. Imho.
Compare with Chavez, for example.
Link of interest: Republicans for Kerry:
Link
such as fraud..
Kerry is a bad choice only if you are white male who doesn't give a shit about teenagers
getting pregnant and having kids so that the grandma has to give up her lifeplans/career
choices to be a full-time mother all over again just when she saw a light at the end of the
tunnel.
@all & CluelessJoe
I agree that Bush should be voted in again.
Let's kill those Neocons by letting them fuck-up so much that the poor GI Joes get killed so
that the poor mobilise.
The elite know there will be a economic meltdown eventually. The whole US system is
built on loads of debt. That great invention called compound interest created this situation.
The elites have inside info and will do fine. Its the sheeple, the great unwashed that will pay
hell. The fact is people like Grover Norquist want the country, thus "big government" to go
bankrupt. That way they can give the old speech that big government was the problem the
whole time. And those great bastions of american democracy, the repubs, can go even
further and gut governement.
Has anyone heard this asshole Lee Hamilton of the Sept 11th commission in front of
McCains committee. Here is a quote. "The American public is becoming more agreeable to
intrusiveness in order to protect themselves from terrorist attack." Who the f... does he
think he is to speak for me? This shit is really pissing me off. This whole Sept. 11th bullshit
is being used to create a greater police state than we already have.
McCain for his part said he will introduce legislation to start the process of a national ID
card or uniform drivers license. Bullshit. I called my two senators and my rep and told them
no national ID. This whole thing will lead to further data collection on our lives and
tracking of citizens, even political activist. All in the name of catching terrorist.
Bunk.
That bunk is implemented to habituate people to being identified, controlled, vetted,
judged, allowed to pass or not (see planes, borders, banking, house-buying, driving permits
and much more..) and obeying orders - supposedly for their own security, or in the name of
â€˜what is right, good.â€™ Most are sure they are innocent so feel they have nothing to
fear. (They are right about the first, wrong about the second.) They hope that in the present
tense situation they will be considered moral and blameless, good citizens, and that only the
shady or murderous (terrrorists, druggies, rebels, other immoral scum) will be weeded out
and punished.
If they refuse to be controlled, they are shown to be against what is moral, just, right, true,
necessary. That would not be positive, so they submit. They even will feel anointed, have
their self-image boosted when they have no problems. And so, they will go on to praise and
endorse such measures, as it furnishes them with a good dose of self-pride.
Germany, 1933.
The Christian right is now a liability for Bush, and it's too late to fix that particular
problem: if he wins, he does so despite their support--having to carry so many voters who
reject them. And how did he get into this mess? By losing Iraq, I'd suppose. And how did
he lose Iraq? By alienating its fundamentalists, I'd suppose. Surely the neocons deserve
some credit for this, blinded as they are by their own fundamentalism, worshipping at the
altar of "conventional" warfare, believing that if you beat up someone's army, then they'll
do whatever you say--an insanity impossible to process (where would you even begin? It
utterly misconceives the notion of "warfare"--of what it can, and cannot, accomplish).
btw, that was me, again with the Novak quote above.
as a representative democracy. This change will not come through voting for the lesser
evil.
There is a need for positive votes. Vote for the political direction you stand for, not against
those politics you do not stand for. If the balance is tilted to the far right, put your weight
on the very left pan to nudge it back. Voting for the middle can not change the reading on
the scale.
Bernhard- you state this as fact, when in fact in America we have the example of another
rich Ivy League man, who was enamored of war, even, who changed things in major ways.
Teddy Roosevelt broke up the monopolies of the gilded age. He ran as an independent, but
he had the background support to run as an independent in a way for it to matter.
So I do not think that your certainty that nothing can change with what exists is true, while
the American electoral system has shown time and again in the last few decades that third
party candidates are usually vote spliters, like Perot was with Bush 1.
In addition, the electoral college system makes politics a near requirement in American
voting...we have no instant run-off, and the reality at this moment in time is that one of two
candidates will win, and who you vote for or against will determine this if you live in a
swing state (assuming Diebold will be kept from further fraud.)
Yes, people should absolutely vote for their choice, when their choice is on the ballot..and
when their perfect candidate is not on the ballot, if they choose not to vote, as Bernie
Sanders said in a documentary I saw recently about the 2000 election, then there's nothing
to talk about with that person because they are taking themselves out of the process...Bernie
Sanders said he simply does not listen to those people because they don't care enough to
vote, so why should he waste his time caring what they have to say.
makes sense to me. politics is about the nasty struggle for power. it's not about how great it
would be if only we had saints running for office or all could suddenly turn off our lizard
brains and our primate hoarding instincts.
But what Bernie said is the thing...if you don't vote for someone you expect to represent
you, then too bad if you don't get the representation you want. And if you don't work for a
candidate that you want to win before the vote, then the chances are that you aren't going to
have someone to vote for that you precisely want.
those here who talk about voting for Bush...obviously, you'll do what you'll do. But those
of us who cannot so cavalierly give more power to fascists find it hard to play nice
sometimes when that is others' way of dealing with abuse of power...by giving them more.
And, yes, as Jerome said, Kerry is playing to the middle. He's working to fight off the
constant attacks from Otis Rove, the drunk with power Mayberry Shithead. That, again, is
the dirty world of politics.
If you voted for Bush based upon what he said while he was campaigning, rather than
looking at where he came from, who was running with him, and who was the base that got
him elected, boy, were you in for a surprise...
Alabama- the Christian reich IS a huge part of Bush's base. He needs them to get elected,
and he's played to them with Ashcroft and his judicial appointments...he's placated the very
rich with welfare for the rich, by not making them pay a fair share to be a part of this
nation.
But the fundies think Iraq/Saddam is the whore of Babylon from the book of Revelations,
and much of the south fundie base is closely aligned with military, so I don't see how the
Iraq invasion is a problem for them.
But those middle american conservatives who are deficit hawks hate Bush, and have for a
while. And then the way Bush has not planned, realistically, to pay for that war, not to
mention the other ones he and his gang bellow about.
Apparently, new polls say the country is evenly divided on the Iraq war issue...but again,
that's also because the American media has done such a good job sucking down every lie
Bush told them, and then failing to look at the reality.
/rant off.
Posted by: fauxreal | August 17, 2004 10:18 PM
fauxreal, I didn't say it very well. What I meant is this: Bush needs to attract Republicans
who aren't fundies, because the fundies can't deliver enough votes. He needs people, in a
word, who were comfortable with him in 2000, the very ones who've found themselves "in
for a surprise", as you slo nicely put it--the surprise being the loss of Iraq and its terrible
sticker shock (recent developments, all in all).
I see some weak humor in the fact that Bush, so dependent on Christian fundies, couldn't
also recognize his further dependence (for success) on Islamic fundies (without their
support he was bound to fail)--an oversight I ascribe to the fundamentalism of the neocons
(their blind faith in conventional warfare as a means of imposing Western "democracy" on
people with other priorities--whence the bad handling of Shia and Sunni alike).
None of this will play well with non-fundamentalist Republicans. Rove is very worried, of
course, which explains the laughable line-up of speakers that he's scheduled for New York.
It won't play, the man has missed the boat, and 2002 is a thing of the past, really and truly.
Bonfires are very pretty things, and revolutions are very exciting revels.
When your life is dull and drear and plodding, they can be very seductive.
But I think they are, in many ways, the playthings of children, who just want to sweep
away the blocks in fury and run off for milk and cookies and naptimes.
Face it, it's hard work to build consensual social and economic policy, to balance rights of
majorities and minorities, to legislate, to regulate, to put through laws that try to balance the
needs of divergent groups. Alas, it is the work of decades, of generations even, and can
seem very dull and cumbersome indeed if one has a hankering to mainline a jolt of
revolution, a little month or so of giggling anarchy until diptheria sets in because the water
system has failed.
Kerry's a grown-up. He's not to everyone's liking. But saying he's Bush Lite is false -- and
it's buying into the fundie/media spin. His taxation proposals clearly aim to shift the burden
to the wealthy and corporations. His environmental record is solid. We've heard him at 27
speak out against an unjust war, and we're now trying to get him positioned so he can voice
that conscience again -- this time from a position of power where it can make a difference.
And if he doesn't ... in four years, he goes.
See, I don't trust Bush to go. I think if he gets in again, he'll never leave.
I think that Kerry will prove to be a much better and more progressive leader than most
here seem to expect. If I'm wrong though, I trust we can get him out when it's his legal time
to go.
As an aside ... I haven't been around much, and won't for several days. My 15-year-old
daughter has had a tough spring and summer -- and Thursday she'll have open heart surgery
at UCLA.
I've been checking in from time to time and will do so again next week sometime after this
family crisis is over.
I wish all of you the best!
Hang in there, SusanG! Our thoughts are with you and your daughter.
SusanG's comments are quite correct.
Apocalyptic fantasies are popular on both ends of the social spectrum, it's clear - but
"revolution" and "rapture" are both very unlikely ways for things to take a quantum leap
upward (in my opinion).
I'm going to cast my absentee ballot for Kerry.
In the words of the European-born songwriter "God Bless America, Land that I Love Stand Beside Her, and Guide Her, through the Night with the Light from Above."
[speaking metaphorically, of course]
Posted by: mistah charley | August 18, 2004 01:17 AM
@SusanG
What alabama said... and thanks again for your pragmatic take on things, I'm still with you
on this.
@fauxreal
Check out the latest Zogby (I commented on this previously somewhere); at the moment
Kerry does have the Swing/Independent vote (49-31% if I remember correctly)....and if he
can keep that, that is the ticket.
@alabama: worshipping at the altar of "conventional" warfare, believing that if you beat
up someone's army, then they'll do whatever you say--an insanity impossible to process
Lakoff is not my favourite analyst in the whole world but I think he has one thing right
about the BushCo flavour of rightism. He talks about them as believers in the "stern father"
model of family, and this encompasses a lot of things.
It encompasses a God who is punishing and judgmental, authoritarian and jealous,
sometimes petty and spiteful (like any overbearing alpha ape in love with his own authority
and vanity). It encompasses a general misogyny, homophobia, and other stances needed to
preserve Father Right, the "divinely ordained" position of authority and power for adult
males. And aside from these public tropes it has its even darker, more private side: the use
of violence, not merely when all else fails but first and foremost, to assert and preserve
Father Right and alpha-hood.
The belief that you just have to whack someone else's army soundly enough and the
defeated people will love and obey you, is imho intimately related to the preconceptions
and presuppositions that underlie wife and child beating: if you just beat them silly they
will acknowledge the rightness of your authority and love you the better for it. After all,
you only beat them for their own good, right?
At the core of the Stern Father, perhaps hidden in one hand behind his back as he strikes a
noble Victorian pose, is the belt ready to smack dissenters across the face or butt
(depending on how soon they have to be seen in public). So it isn't really surprising that the
neoconmen, true-believers in old-style patriarchy and race supremacy to a man, believe in
the absolute efficacy of force majeure -- and are deeply shocked when their victims are not
grateful, as when the Iraqis didn't throw rice and rose petals in thankfulness for having their
museum looted, library burned, country invaded, economy raided, etc.
The bully-boy always believes that more force will solve the problem, break the opposition,
crush the dissenting will, "season" the girl to her trade, guarantee a lasting and
unquestioned victory. How on earth he manages to ignore/deny the human capacity for
resentment, the smouldering, caustic rage of the helpless, the capacity for long memory,
grudge, and blood-feud, I cannot imagine. The batterer is always amazed and outraged
when the worm finally turns and his long-suffering victim comes after him with the frying
pan or the kitchen knife. For some reason, he's always amazed and surprised.
While a nice dose of poetic justice, or even a swig of sweet revenge, might serve to cool
my own little bonfire of indignation about the Bushco disaster, I think I'd have to not eat
anything for 3 or 4 days before if I were to vote for the man. Well, it would be a certain
vindication to see his rickety little house fall on his little pin head, but, he'd probably just
slink back to texas and hit golf balls out into the prairie while we all have to live out the
hurricane of blowback he set in motion, his hair won't even get mussed.
Now in1969 I myself went to Viet-nam and I can personally attest, that I saw every single
thing John Kerry has said he saw (and then some). And like John Kerry, I was revolted by
it, and upon returning home I joined the resistance to that war. While I know that much
political hay has been made over this and the confusion over the Iraq position, but, the man
is a politician and must "appeal" to all those out there in the mono-culture--- a principled
rational and ethical presentation makes these people confused.
Based on this experience alone, I can't believe John Kerry would roll over so easily when
the push comes to shove, so I will muster up a little blind faith in the present, based on his
past.
And our choice could be so much worse.
Depâ€™t of Homeland Security to take over air passenger screening. This mission creep
never stops does it...or
looks like someone didn't get the memo... mean while yesterday, the 9th Circuit Court of
Appeals begins work on the Gilmore vs. Ashcroft case. At stake is nothing less than the
right of Americans to travel freely in their own country -- and the exposure of 'secret law'
for what it is: an abomination.
"The man who is fighting the good fight is named John Gilmore. John made his fortune as a
programmer and entrepreneur in the software industry. Whereas most people in his position
would have moved to a tropical island and lived a life of luxury, John chose to use his
wealth to protect and defend the US Constitution.
"On the 4th of July 2002, John Gilmore, American citizen, decided to take a trip from one
part of the United States of America to another. At the airport, he was told he had to
produce his ID if he wanted to travel. He asked to see the law demanding he show his
'papers' and was told after a time that the law was secret and no, he wouldn't be allowed to
read it.
"He hasn't flown in his own country since."
Another program which depends on showing ID is the Watch List and No-Fly List. Airlines
are issued these lists by the federal government and are required to request ID from their
passengers in order to check them against the lists. This has resulted in countless citizens
with names similar to bad people being harrassed, arrested, or prevented from travelling by
airâ€”including every person named David Nelson'
Bernhard:
This: As has been seen in many European countries, the introduction of alternative
political powers takes years, maybe two or three decades. is not always the case.
In The Netherlands: Leefbaar Nederland, later to morph into Lijst Pim Fortuyn has been
pushed to the forefront in 3-4 years by that country's "commercial" media: SBS6, RTL4
and Veronica/Yorin. Public TV stations tried to ignore the emerging trends for a while but
were forced to jump on the bandwagon at a later stage. Exposure + easy answers =
parliamentary seats...
The Wikipedia article on Pim Fortuyn doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. This
episode is a prime example of how to artificially create a "popular" movement. Btw:
Folkert van der Graaf is Holland's Lee Harvey Oswald.
The French FN and Belgium's Vlaams Blok (cordon sanitair my ass) are two similar
examples; who are their financial backers?. I believe Denmark has a similar story.
With a shitload of money and willing mass media, Forrest Gump can become president
between now and 2008. Oh, nevermind: he already lives at 1600 Penn...
Not wanting to sound like a broken record
Fiumana: from what I can see, I'd say van der Graaf is closer to Stauffenberg than to
Oswald, but that's just me, who tends to think this should be the primary way of dealing
with far-right movements. Alas, in most of Europe, like France, Austria, Switzerland or
Belgium, it's way too late to do it now; offing the "charismatic leader" won't work, it
should've been done years ago, before they could produce clones that could take the lead if
the Fuhrer disappeared.
Yeah, I know, not very democratic, but as I said it's too late so there's no point now. But did
you ever try to check the ratio of more-or-less progressive murdered leaders vs wacko
wingnut murdered leaders?
CJ:
I compared him to Oswald only to indicate that there are some critical unanswered
questions with regard to Fortuyn's kiling. Not an ideological discussion.
There were some comments here sometime ago about how adopting the methods of your
adversaries is a slippery slope... I tend to agree.
While my gut feeling when I heard the news might have been something like "good
riddance." Offing the "charismatic leader" only takes care of the symptom. This feeds the
cancer.
Looking at the voilent death ratio of progressives vs. wingnuts takes me back to the
slippery slope argument.
SusanG- please take care of yourself while you're taking care of your daughter. I'll be
thinking of you and yours. As a parent, I know there is nothing like that fierce love for your
child...it can get you both through a lot.
And thanks to you and DeAnander for articulating so well my own thoughts.
Alabama- TalkingPointsMemo talks about the southern takeover of the GOP and mentions
an article by Chris Caldwell. You can read the google cache of this article...talks about the
backlash that cometh when a small section of the nation thinks they hold a monopoly on the
definition of morals...especially the narrow view that is the fundie south.
I only hope Novak is right about the Republicans imploding. He's not the first or only
person I've heard or read who's said this.
Posted by: fauxreal | August 18, 2004 08:26 AM
Thank you, fauxreal, for that helpful lead....And DeAnander, I still have to figure out what,
if anything, in Bush's personal experience gave him the green light to operate like a
wife-beater during his "first term of office". How did he come to believe that this kind of
behavior would advance the cause of his re-election? He did, after all, receive lots of
counsel to the contrary from his own supporters (Baker and Scowcroft among them).
So I'm reduced to the nearest, and most obvious, precedent in Bush's personal experience,
viz., the sending of 150 helpless convicts, one by one, to their deliberated death by lethal
injection. I believe this to have been Bush's only formative experience in elective office. If
it was, then the penal practices of Texas transformed a shallow person of lethal inclinations
into a serial killer--further proof, if any were needed, that the death penalty is suicidal to the
community indulging it (our own, in this instance).
We should also bear in mind that Bush's wife killed her high school quarterback in an act of
reckless driving that was never subjected to legal process--a powerful example indeed!.
A footnote to the above, DeAnander: Shakespeare studied this script exactly four hundred
years ago "today" (in 1604, according to some), and turned it into that required High
School text known as "Macbeth". I don't think we've profited from its instruction.
@alabama
I still have to figure out what, if anything, in Bush's personal experience gave him the green
light to operate like a wife-beater during his "first term of office". [...] He did, after all,
receive lots of counsel to the contrary from his own supporters (Baker and Scowcroft
among them).
But Baker and Scowcroft are part of Poppy's clique, and -- though I'm not fond of armchair
psychoanalysis -- I think we can all agree that Little Boots has some real "issues" with his
dad, most of which seem to involve demonstrating his independence by rejecting his father
and everything he stood for.
Frankly, if the Cloistered Emperor loses this one, I fully expect him to be found dead in the
Oval Office, Saddam's pistol in his hand and his brains all over the carpet. (Though in that
case, there would have to be strong suspicion that the suicide was staged: Even at close
range, it takes a steady hand to hit such a small target...)
@Pofessor Fate:
Very good. Will he poison the dogs and use cyanide too?
Dang it! Forgot to say that I hope your daughter's surgery goes well, SusanG, and that she's
feeling better soon. I've missed seeing your comments these last few weeks.
prof fate, there are lots of ways to oppose Daddy, and going into Iraq is certainly one of
these. But is it enough? Does it really satisfy? Does it give real pleasure--the kind that
ventilates your impotent rage and lets you feel potent all over again (as in the image of
"captain codpiece")? I'll to hold to the "serial killer" hypothesis because killing those
convicts had to give Bush great pleasure of that kind, over and over again (and let's not
forget his laughter at the killing of Carla Faye Tucker).
I also insist on bringing our First Lady to mind. I think it's possible, and even likely, that
the future President found her attractive precisely because she once killed a person without
being held accountable for the deed--objectively accountable in a court of law, as you and I
would be if we killed a person by running a red light at the wheel of another person's car.
Nah, just blame it on Clinton.
Thoughts are with you SusanG.
I was a little unclear in that last post, prof fate.
Going into Iraq accomplishes two different things at once: it opposes Daddy, and also kills
a lot of folks who look and seem defenseless. So the President gets two kicks for the price
of one. And you and I, of course, are paying the price for those kicks (and I wonder if
Daddy paid the boy's allowance to cover all that cocaine--the sort of thing that fathers hate
to acknowledge).
A very unhealthy person is running our country.
Don't leave out the reality that the Great White Father is using some of his background in
History & evangelism to imagine himself as leading another racist crusade bringing
"civilization" to those that don't look like him. It's easier to order others to death when they
are seen as inferior. And it helps to be surrounded by a melanin-deficient support base who
will applaud and encourage the most vile behavior and ideas. I still am amazed by the
applause & cheers in response to that line in Bush's 2003 SOTUS where he gloated that
All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many
countries. Many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way -- they
are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies.
(Applause.)
Yes, b real, racism, religious fundamentalism, and something that looks (a little strangely,
for someone who mangles his mother tongue) a kind of "English-ism," a deep disdain for
anyone who doesn't speak English (whence the bond with Blair, I would surmise)....Just so
many expressions of the blood-lust belonging to all creatures, and which humans are
invited to temper, in some degree. Bush welcomes the chance to ventilate it; it's his only
chance to feel powerful, and he will win or lose to the extent that we also feel that way
(Kerry has other ways to feel powerful--as in his command of language).
@alabama
A very unhealthy person is running our country.
No argument there.
As for the serial killer hypothesis, well, most serial killers seem to prefer the "hands on"
approach, if you know what I mean. Even a sniper has a more direct relation to his victim. I
suspect that if the Bush Baby really had to do the dirty deed himself, he probably wouldn't
have the guts for it.
What he obviously does relish is the power to punish "evildoers" via third parties. By those
standards, unless you're willing to call a fairly large percentage of the U.S. population serial
killers, then I think the term doesn't quite apply to Dubya (hateful, self-centered
homunculus though he is).
I still say that if we're talking motivations, a large part of it looks to be directed towards
repudiating his father. Not only rejecting Poppy's legacy, but showing him up for a wimp
by cleaning up the mess he left in Iraq.
Now, let's all dust off our Freud, and tell me who he's really trying to impress with this
behavior? (So much for eschewing armchair psychoanalysis...)
I take your point about serial killers, prof fate, but I also think you underestimate the power
of the "pleasure principle" as an engine for Bush's behavior. I think he takes pleasure in
having people killed at his command. It's also the kind of pleasure that isn't gratified just
once--it has to be done repeatedly.
As for the triangle with Mom and Dad, that's a little mysterious, I do agree--but you're
right, it has to be thought about. I gather that Dad was largely absent, and that Mom was the
principle parent. A raging sadist herself, she was quite famously abusive to their
children--above all to their daughter Doro, whom she scapegoated without mercy from day
one, and whom you'll never see in public. Dad wasn't there to stay Mom's hand. Not a good
example for the shrub, that's for sure.
(more to come)
When we explore these questions, prof fate, we explore our own problem. The man is our
President, after all, and he mobilizes a lot of our passions, not all of them fully
differentiated. Shrub's "unconscious" is certainly involved with mine, and it's a matter of
the first importance to test the reality and extent of that confusion. How much of me isn't
the shrub (and how it isn't) isn't something I can state with absolute certainty. For example,
my fantasies of what I'd like to do to the shrub are hard to distinguish from his own actual
treatment of the Iraqi people. We have to work these things through with some diligence,
awkward as they may be.
@alabama
Ok, then: I used the word "relish" (in the non-condimental sense) and you say "he takes
pleasure". So it looks like "You say 'To-MAY-to' and I say 'To-MA-to'" on this question.
As for the Oedipal angle, remember how at age 26 he drunkenly challenged Poppy to go
mano a mano. Like many addicts (reformed or otherwise) he's an arrested adolescent.
Add to that the fact that he owes his wealth and position to Daddy Bush -- whose friends
have rescued him from his own screwups on countless occasions -- and it doesn't take a
degree in psychology to suspect there's a lot of hidden resentment in that pointy cranium.
The Bush family almost reminds me of something out of Greek tragedy. The problem with
that analogy, though, is that you have to find at least one good quality to highlight the
tragic flaw.
Yes, we're going to have to do that too, prof fate. Very wounding if you're caught up in "the
narcissism of minor differences"! But the good qualities are there, and to say otherwise is to
diabolize the man, which is completely foreign to the scientific spirit of this exercise. We
could start with his 1250 on the SAT's, and the fact that he actually made it through
Andover, Yale and HBS. Lots of people, smarter than he and even better connected, haven't
been able to do that. Call it an obsessive ferocity to meet the concrete goal, the sort of thing
that enables you to haul brush on a hot afternoon in Texas, or get back on the bike after you
fall....And while I hope this isn't a hymn to the shrub, I have to admit that I'm not very good
at getting lots of things done.....Moreover, we know very well that the stuff of "tragedy" is
there, if only because he was told (at the tender age of eight?) about his sister's death only
AFTER she was buried in the cold, cold ground. Faulkner could work this up just fine.
Yes, we're going to have to do that too, prof fate--very wounding to those of us caught up
in "the narcissism of minor differences"! But the good qualities are there, and saying
otherwise is to diabolize the man, which is completely foreign to the scientific spirit of this
exercise.... We could start with his 1250 on the SAT's, and the fact that he actually made it
through Andover, Yale and HBS. Lots of people, smarter than he and even better
connected, haven't managed to do that. Call it an obsessive ferocity to meet the concrete
goal--the sort of thing that enables you to haul brush on a hot afternoon in Texas, or get
back on the bike after you fall....Furthermore, we know very well that the stuff of "tragedy"
is there, if only because he was told (at the tender age of eight?) about his sister's death
only AFTER she was buried in the cold, cold ground. Faulkner could work this up just fine.
Apologies for the double post. Mysterious, that.
@alabama
We could start with his 1250 on the SAT's, and the fact that he actually made it through
Andover, Yale and HBS. Lots of people, smarter than he and even better connected, haven't
managed to do that.
I'd say that intelligence is itself value-neutral; it doesn't matter how smart you are, it's what
you do with it that counts. For someone with access to the finest in American education,
he's a remarkably dogmatic and incurious individual.
Same with perseverance. The quality is really only admirable when it's exercised for a
worthy goal.
No, Little Boots is not a demon, though the consequences of his actions border on the
demonic. But I still hold by my opinion of the Bush clan as an ongoing criminal enterprise,
and Dubya as someone who -- on the strength of his demonstrated ability -- should be
managing a Pizza Hut.
I wouldn't spend too much time trying to pin these problems on shrub himself. On his own,
he's not worth much except for his lineage and the fact that he appears to be quite easily
manipulated. Maybe that's where a psychological focus could help deflate the myth that has
been manufactured around him, but the more beneficial analysis would be the one that
identifies and educates those who still cannot connect the dots on why they have allowed,
once again, another impressionable cowboy to represent us to the rest of the planet while
we continue paying for the murder of even more of it's inhabitants.
Prof fate, I completely agree on the question of stature and the lack thereof in that
household (part of my own family comes from Connecticut, and has bad memories of
Prescott Bush). But does a "Greek tragedy" require a mighty house, or just a mighty
protagonist? If the latter, then the "tragedy" you propose might concern some member of
the house who really had (or has) "great qualities", and was (or is) brought down by the
surrounding mediocrity....Brought down, and therefore unidentifiable--so we'll have to use
our own imaginations....And b real, I couldn't have said it better; that's what we're up to
here, and I believe it's a worthy enterprise (a collective one as well).
International currency explained - Bush-style
Bush on the 'Soviet dinar'
Geography, geopolitics, international finance - is there no limit to this man's genius?
Probably.
A voice of despair:
Kerry's right-wing campaign for president, echoing the exploitative domestic
and aggressive foreign policies of Bush, confirms the end of meaningful
political discourse in the United States. There are simply no remaining
effective instruments of political action available to the restless masses, who
are probably a majority of the country, and most of whom, as a result, no
longer participate in the political process at all.
Voting for Kerry is marginally better than voting for Bush, or wasting a vote
for Nader. But it's rather like voting for Marius and Caesar (the Democrats)
rather than Sulla and Pompey (the Republicans). A more benevolent despot is
always better than a less benevolent one, but despotism it remains all the same.
Can we pretend otherwise any longer?
supporting evidence may be found in Kerry's public statements on Latin America, in which
he sounds almost more aggressive even than the Shrub.
@NEMO:
The freaker is a Fark a minute. The best at SNL in the earlies or the Pythons could not
possibly come up with this.
@Harold: oh you know how it is -- The Enemy = Soviet = Nazi = Iraqi = N Korean =
Ay-rab = atheist = commie pinko = hippie liberals = registered Democrats and so on. All
those Bad Guys look alike to Bush, why bother trying to keep track?
@DeAnander:
You are absolutely right. Thanks.
Posted by: Harold | August 18, 2004 10:46 PM
Well I worry about that Soviet menace, or is it Korean? Hey wait! - it's the Taliban,
right? No, no, not the Taliban - it's IRAN isn't it? Or Syria? Am I close? Sheesh, who
ARE we at war with this week?
How US fares in Iraq may sway swing voters
Maybe a more accurate headline would be â€˜How they are told things are faring in Iraq
may sway swing votersâ€™ for as always the mediaâ€™s role in creating perceptions is
crucial, and thus far the media has not, on the whole, earned consideration as an objective,
non-partisan, informed, analytical and critical source of information. It remains to be seen
how enthusiastic a cheerleader for the spin of the current administration a large swathe of
the US media will continue to be. Taken with the clear desire on the part of the Bush junta
to push Iraq off the front pages and airwaves it may be the case that by November this
apparent voter concern will have given way to more pressing issues â€“ e.g. who slept with
who, who had the yuckiest tie during the TV debates, who seems more likely to shave 5
cents off the price of a can of baked beans et ceteraâ€¦
â€¦There also are the untold thousands of Iraqis dead and wounded as well. But, as one
Pentagon spokesman told me, "They don't countâ€¦."
Kerry deals away his ace in the hole
Evidently Iraq is not so important after all...
@alabama
Who knows: maybe they've got "Boo" Bush locked in the cellar.
@DeAnander
Yeah, Kerry's statement about Bolivia and the protestors made me want to heave, too.
Before the flame wars start, I'm still planning on voting for him. Hell, I'd probably vote for
an orangutan if it could beat Bush. I want to see a stake driven right through the heart of
that family's political ambitions.
But when Kerry spouts crap like this, all I can say is, he has a real knack for not making it
any easier.
Borrowing my favorite line from Foolbert Sturgeon's New Adventures of Jesus:
"You turn the other cheek, [he] just want[s] more cheeks!"
Ya Allah! Only in America!
Old flames for Kerry - an ex-girlfriend's pro-Kerry kiss 'n' tell website
@NEMO:
Maybe an accomplished "playa" has cards up his
sleeve.
Posted by: Tarot Card Reader | August 18, 2004 11:59 PM
@NEMO:
In Re: Old Loves for Kerry
You just gave me a case of PCFS(Post Comedic Farking Syndrome).
See you in the Hague.
Will be seeking Quadruple damages, plus Punitives.
Posted by: Harold Lloyd, JD. | August 19, 2004 12:27 AM
Voting for Kerry is marginally better than voting for Bush, or wasting a vote for Nader.
Marginally better?
Sorry---but whoever wrote that must be snorting some kind of right-wing stupid drug.
I saw an Iranian movie tonight called "Children of Heaven." What a beautiful flick...and
what gorgeous lovely children. They are perfect enough to make your heart weep.
I suggest the learned ass that wrote the above "marginal" remark see that
movie---POSTHASTE.
Why?
Because Cheney-devil and Bush-fuck are totally---TOTALLY--capable of cluster-fuck
bombing those perfect children into tiny bloody pieces.
Does anybody out there really believe Kerry or Edwards would start a preemptive war with
Iran?
No fucking way.
Yet right now...I'd bet my soul on it...Bush-devil and Cheney-fuck have a war plan on Iran
already drawn up and ready to go. And those perfect gorgeous children? Mere collateral
damage in their sick calculus.
Marginally better?
MARGINALLY BETTER?
Shame Shame Shame on your worthless ass.
May I pour some more fuel on your fire Koreyel?
"Seymore Hersh, a reporter for the New Yorker magazine has yet to release
the videos in his possession of the torturing of these children, but as he said, he
is not done reporting on this yet ... more to come. Screams of young boys
being sodomized by U.S. personnel at the U.S 'detention' centers."
@BEQ:
Great cite. I liked the cartoon too.
Don't think koreyel, already approaching thermonuclear, needs any enriched habaneros in
the arsenel.
Great post there, koreyel!
Posted by: Harold | August 19, 2004 08:57 AM
koreyel- If you liked that movie from Majid Majidi, you might also like The Color of
Paradise, also from him, and about children.
It's a much sadder movie, though.
I think Majidi was inspired by another movie, The White Balloon.
Abbas Kiarastami (I think I misspelled his last name), another Iranian filmmaker, was the
"darling" of world cinema in the 90s. His work is not as narratively typical as Majidis, but
also worth watching, especially, The Wind Will Carry Us.
Another good one is The Apple, from a female (the daughter of another well known
filmmaker in Iran.)
Thanks fauxreal (for the recommendations) and everyone else for tolerating my balistics.
@alabama
I haven't seen you comment for a while now on your earlier investigations into AIPAC and
related influence on US politics, but I'd be grateful if you, or anyone else, might have any
insight into a couple "dots" I'm still working on and what influence they still represent...
dot #1003
Thomas Jefferson's proposal for the Great Seal of the United States in 1176
"Jefferson proposed the Children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by
day and a pillar of fire by night; and on the reverse side, Hengist and Horsa,
the Saxon chiefs from whom we claim the honor of being descended, and
whose political principles and form of government we have assumed." - John
Adams
dot #1439
Timothy Dwight's epic poem The Conquest of Canaan, 1785, usually cited as "America's
first epic poem". Dwight's allegory cast the new America as Israel and England as Egypt in
an updated account of the biblical story of the exodus, w/ George Washington in the role of
Joshua leading the children of Israel into the promised land and triumph over the "fiendish,
wolflike Canaanites" [Native Americans]. The poem identified "America" as "the last stop
on the westward march of empire...the sole heir apparent of Israel's mission to found an
empire, and to rule a world."
thanks
yikes.. that should read 1776
Speaking of thermonuclear:
On George W. Bush - A Haiku (by Susan Anthony)
Fear the lesser son
who, desperate to burn bright,
Incinerates all
Good leads, b real, and I'll check them out. I've noticed for a long time that our ancient
rhetoric about Native Americans features a strongly "Semitic" streak (Mormons were not
the first to identify Native Americans as the "lost tribes of Israel").
The difference between an "anti-Semitic" and "philo-Semitic" take on Native
Americans--Dwight vs. Jefferson--is less telling than the analogy they share, which works
in every direction: if Indians can be Semites (Jewish or Arab), then Semites can be
Indians.... Our actions show that we think this way, and I wonder what, if anything, AIPAC
makes of it all, beyong the fact that we aren't to be trusted in the first place.
Hey thanks Alabama, prof fate, DeAnander, beq, b real, koreyel, fauxreal, Harold for the
long and interesting discussion of the Dub and his shortcomings. You too Nemo.
At times I sway from my contrary position to admit that maybe GB really does have some
power, but then scepticism catches up again and I hafta say Nah he's just the perfect patsy.
Perfect because nobody else has to take the blame for the war crimes, etc. designed in his
name. Perfect because the Dub is pleased with the top dawg position and is - always has
been - shielded from the consequences of his actions/policies.
Now with that bit of casting out of the way we are left with, not so much the psychology of
those who follow, which is incorporated into the script, but with the script-writers and their
hidden goals. It is these spooks who are calling the shots in the long term.
War, genocide, resouce depletion, pollution, wealth concentration. Long-term objectives to
be accomplished over many generations. The current players in the "top" positions
(Cheney, Wolfowitz, The Rumster, Tony Blair) are following a plan much bigger than they
are; something else is calling the tune. Kerry may offer some short-term relief, perhaps a bit
less direct and violent, but he has been bred, trained, indoctrinated to continue with the
plan.
The first objective is to get a copy of the plan and find out who wrote it. Can't even begin to
foil it without that basic information.
rapt, we should get used to calling it "the Cheney Administration," or perhaps "the
Cheney-Bush Administration".
slightly OT:
Via Dan Froomkin from a Bush campaign event:
"'What do you got?' the president taunts them when the questioning session
opens, and then calls on the first hand.
"'Mr. President,' begins a young man in a baseball hat. 'I just want to say I'm
praying for you and God bless you.'
"And then one questioner later:
"'I would just like to say that I agree with this gentleman, that we should all
pray for you.'"
Rosin writes that "it's no mystery why Bush likes them. Each session is like a
90-minute support group dedicated to him. In them he is 'bold,' a 'fighter,'
'the man for this job at this time,' in the words of various questioners, someone
whose 'candle is burning brightly.' He is a 'man of faith' or a 'man who lives by
his faith' or who's 'answered a calling.' Meanwhile, Kerry is 'Jane Fonda's
poster boy,' from one questioner in Pennsylvania, or 'a candidate with two
self-inflicted scratches,' from one in Oregon."
When, oh when, is the space-time continuum finally gonna rebel against these pinheads and
isolate them in their own little pocket of unreality?
Please, before my head explodes!
Thanks, b, for the heads-up on Bubble Boy's latest outing in Potemkin World.
Need I point out how this speaks volumes about the fragility of this ego?
Long article in NYT about the Swift boat veterans: Friendly Fire: The Birth of an
Anti-Kerry Ad
A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections
to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's
chief political aide, Karl Rove.
Records show that the group received the bulk of its initial financing from two
men with ties to the president and his family - one a longtime political
associate of Mr. Rove's, the other a trustee of the foundation for Mr. Bush's
father's presidential library. A Texas publicist who once helped prepare Mr.
Bush's father for his debate when he was running for vice president provided
them with strategic advice. And the group's television commercial was
produced by the same team that made the devastating ad mocking Michael S.
Dukakis in an oversized tank helmet when he and Mr. Bush's father faced off
in the 1988 presidential election.
The strategy the veterans devised would ultimately paint John Kerry the war
hero as John Kerry the "baby killer" and the fabricator of the events that
resulted in his war medals. But on close examination, the accounts of Swift
Boat Veterans for Truth' prove to be riddled with inconsistencies. In many
cases, material offered as proof by these veterans is undercut by official Navy
records and the men's own statements.
Karl Rove just yesterday started to work on a new anti-campaign - Kerry the "cat killer"...
Re Cheney:
Executor of public affairs, as distinguished from policy maker.
1 : performance of executive duties : MANAGEMENT
2 : the act or process of administering
3 : the execution of public affairs as distinguished from policy-making
4 a : a body of persons who administer b often capitalized : a group constituting the
political executive in a presidential government c : a governmental agency or board
5 : the term of office of an administrative officer or body
@Prof Fate: "Potemkin World" indeed.
Makes me wonder, what is the point of these loyalists-only pep rallies with their pre-placed
shills? who's the audience? is it all set up to boost the ego and confidence of Shrub Boy, so
he can go on playing his assigned part? is it intended to provide warm fuzzies and a sense
of invincibility to the already-loyal who are permitted to attend the show?
it's kind of amusing in a way -- used to be it was the old Left that was accused (and with
reason much of the time) of "preaching to the converted," practising a kind of arrogant
solipsism, simply pretending that people who disagreed with the program didn't exist or
weren't worth talking to. now the Repubs are running a presidential campaign on that
principle: if you don't agree with us already, you can't get in to hear our team campaigning.
Sidney Blumenthal notes a case where some kind of loyalty oath (in writing) was required
to gain admission to a Cheney pep rally.
this kind of thing has eerie overtones or undertones of the One Party State, you know -only Party members with valid cards may attend official events. anyone who doesn't join
the One Party is simply frozen out of the process. sure we ain't there yet, by a fair distance,
but I don't like the smell in the air.
An interview with Leading globalization scholar Jagdish Bhagwati, himself a Democrat..
on Kerry's anti-offshoring rhetoric, his ideas for reforming company taxation - and George
W. Bush's record on job creation. "Kerry and Edwards are trying to use scare tactics". This
is the German newssite Spiegel Online (on of my ex employers), but the interview is in
English.
...what is the point of these loyalists-only pep rallies with their pre-placed shills?
Here's a clue, as the choreography obviously takes precedent over conversion : Karl Rove,
as quoted in Banana Republicans, tells Campaign Finance Chief Don Evans, "It's all
visuals, you campaign as if America was watching TV w/ the sound turned down."
It's the same reason GWB speaks w/ sedated soldiers in the background.
...what is the point of these loyalists-only pep rallies with their pre-placed shills?
Here's a clue, as the choreography obviously takes precedent over conversion : Karl Rove,
as quoted in Banana Republicans, tells Campaign Finance Chief Don Evans, "It's all
visuals, you campaign as if America was watching TV w/ the sound turned down."
It's the same reason GWB speaks w/ sedated soldiers in the background.
sorry 'bout the double-post. rcvd a "object expected error" line 61 in preview mode
Yes b_real...
It is that and perhaps a bit more (as a snatch of dialog I quote below will show).
What they are doing is rewriting the past to control the future.
One of the hopes behind these phony fireside chats is that there may be leekage into the
greater culture.
In other words: Say Kerry is a flip-flopper and lied about his war record and you make it
so.
This is deeper than the political scientist's "framing." This is controlling the future by
repainting the past.
Ergo it is much more than preaching to the choir.
It is: deliberately putting false ideas into the public domain. or if you will: planting evil
acorns into squirrel minds.
The snatch of dialog posted to this thread at 1:38 is most likely a scripted series of points
made by Bush shills.
Some naive soul tuning in at that moment then sees--NOT Bush in self praise or rewritting
history, but rather--the good folk of America recalling what simply is and what simply
happened.
Yesterday Josh Marshall posted (and then reposted) a different snatch of this play-pretend
dialog.
Bless him for being keen enough to put it up twice. Josh understands how sinister this
charade is--and has made up his mind to combat it. (I've never seen him so irate.)
I am going to post that same snatch again.
Here is a shill (i.e. a simple warrior man, whose given so much to this good country)
repainting the past to control the future.
And then watch as Bush smirks at the slander (the false figment of history) and lets it
deliberately slide into the public domain.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, sir.
Q On behalf of Vietnam veterans -- and I served six tours over there -- we do
support the President. I only have one concern, and that's on the Purple Heart,
and that is, is that there are over 200,000 Vietnam vets that died from Agent
Orange and were never -- no Purple Heart has ever been awarded to a Vietnam
veteran because of Agent Orange because it's never been changed in the
regulations. Yet, we've got a candidate for President out here with two
self-inflicted scratches, and I take that as an insult. (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for your
service. Six tours? Whew. That's a lot of tours.
Let's see, who've we got here? You got a question?
What you just witnessed in that snatch of fake dialog is something so sinister and immoral
that it shames.
The President of the United States allowed a slander--something he knew was a vicious lie
and a fake snatch of history--to slide into the public domain.
That's not smoothing a cut from the cloth of democracy.
That's not Christian behavior.
That's willfully twirling a piece of twine from the noose of totalitarianism.
@koreyel
Agreed, but that's what they've always done (just revisit any number of history textbooks).
So long as people make the choice to watch & read corporate media, and non-corporate
media continue to rebroadcast official sourcing w/o a companion critique and open
skepticism, they'll keep on churning it out into the public domain because, at the very least,
on the surface level, it's inexpensive and puts their critics on the defensive. They rely on a
top-down, authoritarian heirarchy to influence and limit communication and percpetion.
That's a given. But one thing to keep in mind is that the controversy generated by these
stories of staged events is itself manufactured. It is a PR campaign technique, which gets
information relayed via provocation or stiring the audience. In The Engineering of Consent
Bernays wrote
The developing of events and circumstances that are not routine is one of the
basic functions of the engineering of consent. Events so planned can be
projected over the communication systems to infinitely more pople than those
actually participating, and such events vividly dramatize ideas for those who
do not witness the events. The imaginatively managed event can compete
successfully w/ other events for attention. Newsworthy events, involving
people, usually do not happen by accident. They are planned deliberately to
accomplish a purpose to influence our ideas and actions.
I'm also intrigued by the visual component though; how far they try to take the whole idea
that image-making in itself is the key to control, and in the resulting question of whether it
is enough to just expose their tricks and methodologies by unraveling the fabric of the veil
or, instead, is it imperative that we diligently undertake the obligation to manipulate the
manipulators (not the population.)
@koreyel
Agreed, but that's what they've always done (just revisit any number of history textbooks).
So long as people make the choice to watch & read corporate media, and non-corporate
media continue to rebroadcast official sourcing w/o a companion critique and open
skepticism, they'll keep on churning it out into the public domain because, at the very least,
on a surface level, it's inexpensive and puts their critics on the defensive. They rely on a
top-down, authoritarian heirarchy to influence and limit communication and percpetion.
That's a given. But one thing to keep in mind is that the controversy generated by these
stories of staged events is itself manufactured. It is a PR campaign technique, which gets
information relayed via provocation or stiring the audience. In The Engineering of Consent
Bernays wrote
The developing of events and circumstances that are not routine is one of the
basic functions of the engineering of consent. Events so planned can be
projected over the communication systems to infinitely more pople than those
actually participating, and such events vividly dramatize ideas for those who
do not witness the events. The imaginatively managed event can compete
successfully w/ other events for attention. Newsworthy events, involving
people, usually do not happen by accident. They are planned deliberately to
accomplish a purpose to influence our ideas and actions.
I'm also intrigued by the visual component though; how far they try to take the whole idea
that image-making in itself is the key to control, and in the resulting question of whether it
is enough to just expose their tricks and methodologies by unraveling the fabric of the veil
or, instead, is it imperative that we diligently undertake the obligation to manipulate the
manipulators (not the population.)
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« Off Topics - Open Thread | Main | CPI: Camouflaging Price Increase »
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August 16, 2004
Comments
Baby Face Nelson's Back
A GOOD BOOK
Posted by: Melvin Purvis | August 16, 2004 08:05 AM
FBI FOILS TERRORIST PLOTS IN LYNCHBURG AND VIRGINIA BEACH
VIRGINIA
COURTESY ASZ NEWS SERVICE
LINK
Posted by: J. Edgar Hoover | August 16, 2004 08:12 AM
One more to win national elections because he is against Bush and the US.
ChÃ¡vez Is Declared the Winner in Venezuela Referendum
So 70,000 troops coming home?
Why?
NATO dead?
Bush payback to Schroeder?
Some new war in the pipeline?
It's getting better and better!
Transportation: Putting on the Squeeze - A rash of insurgent attacks have made Iraq's roads
too dangerous for truckers to drive, threatening supply lines
And it gets even better!
Police fire at reporters as US tanks roll up to shrine
You won't believe it - even better!
Offensive resumes in Najaf, prompting desertions of Iraqi troops
Gosh, I better stop now as this is getting just to good.
CP, probably all of them.
Imagine the reaction to telling people "patriotism is psychotic."
the fundamental purpose of controlling the use of language (keeping
discussion within a frame) is to limit the scope of thought; this is essential to
social control. When you respond to an argument by using the terms
defined by the framers, you have already lost. Lakoff uses the example of
"tax relief," used by Republicans to insinuate that taxes are an inherent
affliction. Lakoff suggests that Democrats (and any opponents of the
Republicans) counter the "tax relief" excuse of relieving affliction, as a cover
for enriching the wealthy, by discussing the "dues" we owe as a patriotic
duty to support freedom, democracy, and the American way. In Lakoff's
words,
I would say taxes are what you pay to be an American, to live in this
country with democracy, with opportunity, and especially with the enormous
infrastructure paid for by previous taxpayers -- infrastructure like schools and
roads and the Internet, the stock market, the Securities and Exchange
Commission, our court system, our scientific establishment, which is largely
supported by federal money. Vast amounts of important, marvelous
infrastructure: all of these things were paid for by taxpayers. They paid their
dues. They paid their fair share to be Americans and maintain that
infrastructure. And if you don't pay your fair share, then you're turning
your back on your country.
-- Manuel GarcÃ-a, Jr.
Ok. this is the last one. Hopefully;^)
Findings Could Hurt U.S. Effort On Iran - U.N. Traces Uranium To Tainted Equipment
@Fran:
God, you aren't related to NEMO, are you?
Keep 'em coming, the more the merrier!
Posted by: FH | August 16, 2004 12:22 PM
Is anybody else outraged by this:
Israeli prison officials are considering using jailhouse barbecues to entice
hundreds of Palestinians prisoners to break a hunger strike launched this week
to protest conditions, a spokesman said Monday.
...
As the protest continued into its second day Monday, prisons spokesman Ofer
Lefler said authorities were considering grilling meats near the prisoners,
hoping the enticing aroma would weaken their resolve.
"We look at psychological means to deal with problems like this," Lefler said,
saying the tactic has been used in other parts of the world. "Our interest is to
return prisoners to eating as soon as possible." He said no decision had been
made on whether to begin the threatened cookouts.
Israel Weighs How to End Hunger Strikes
USA Today:
Stocks soar on oil news - Price drop buoys Dow, Nasdaq
CNN Money:
Markets surge in broad rally after several weeks of selling; oil off its high
Reuters:
Stocks Higher on Oil Price Relief
Current oil price 46.12 - 3% higher than a week ago and only 0.5% lower than Fridays
close. How can that be a reason to rally stocks?
Carter: Observers Agree with Chavez Recall Results
Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter said on Monday international observers
agreed that leftist President Hugo Chavez won an Aug. 15 recall referendum
fairly despite opposition concerns over fraud in the vote.
Carter led a team of observers monitoring the referendum.
Congratulation Mr. Chavez!
Moon of Alabama Photographic Exhibition
American armored might, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 16th
Shocked and awed? Small Iraqi boy gazes at American power, Sadr City, Baghdad, August
16th
Cowed locals, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 16th
Winning hearts and minds, on patrol in Sadr City, Baghdad, August 16th
Angry young men? Najaf, August 16th
Cowed locals, Najaf, August 16th
US military helicopters provide air cover, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 16th (Hey â€“
nobody said it has to be effective air cover!)
Gloating, Baghdad, August 16th
Conquered Iraqis, Baghdad, August 16th
The deserted Imam Ali Shrine complex as terrified Iraqis hide from the might of the USA
Deserted Najaf, August 16th - another view
More terrified Iraqis, Najaf, August 16th
Members of the Najaf welcoming committee, August 16th
En route to work, an Iraqi hastens to a meeting with the British, Basra, August 16th
Rush hour, Basra, August 16th
Every picture tells a story eh? But it isnâ€™t always safe to tell the story behind the
pictures, is it? Some people don't like people telling the story behind some of the pictures...
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Relatives of the U.S. soldier who sounded the alarm about
abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison said on Monday the family was living in
protective custody because of death threats against themâ€¦
Family of Iraq torture whistleblower threatened.
FH, no - looking at NEMO's last post, I don't think I am related to him. I'd never be able to
live up to his standard and amount of information.
@b, pork ribs?
The markets must know that Sadr and his band of freedom fighters are going to get stuffed
now that the media cannot cover it.
@ b:
Re:Barbecues
Novel Hunger strike breaking technique.
Hope they let them eat it after they break them.
Jesus.
Phone calls from Dick Cheney â€“ what are they worth?
Halliburton says US Army suspends withhold threat
Fran,
You're doing great! I love the way that people here share links and information - and
literature and humor and personal insights too. The world may go mad but in our own ways
we can always bite it back... And speaking of humor, I see that FlashHarry has quite a team
working for him!
;-)
Young voters rapidly deserting Bush - poll
RE: barbaric barbarcue
I don't think this scheme will entice.
At least with short fasts: 3 days to a week, the body grows friendlier to the imposed denial.
As probably many of you know: The hardest day of a fast is the first day. Every day
thereafter gets easier.
The psychology of a willful fast is far different than one imposed externally--for example
by a famine.
I can't speak to what happens to the mind with longer fasts...but...I suspect the will to
persevere bites down on one's hunger even harder.
VATICAN CITY (AFP) - The Vatican has offered to mediate to avoid further bloodshed
and destruction in the besieged Shiite holy city of Najaf, stronghold of leader Moqtada
Sadr, the Vatican said Monday.
"If asked, John Paul II would gladly accept a mediation role," the Vatican secretary of state,
Cardinal Angelo Sodano, told Italian public radio.
Sporadic fighting broke out early Monday with Sadr's Mehdi Army as U.S.-backed Iraqi
forces closed in for an expected major military assault on the rebels' stronghold in the city's
shrine area. "It is very important that all the parties involved can talk around a table," the
cardinal said. "We request that the sacred nature of the city be respected."
Pity we don't have a young firebrand pope!
Any spot the main thing about the training picture here? â‚¬10 to the winner
Then came Custer Battles LLC
Following the links to Joe Bageant from another thread, I found this.
What we "accomplished" before we attacked them.
@beq, started reading the Pilger piece, that you linked.
War Crimes?
Custer Battles LLC
Now that is one hell of a cite:
Dabiel Dravitt and Peachy Carnehan, with Harvard MBAs.
CP: You mean, the one of Shiites in the shrine? Well, not sure. I tried to find some Iraqi
police or army guy, there's probably a few of them. Other than that, they're pretty upset, but
there's no gun, rifle or RPG in sight, which at first sight makes them a crowd of armless
citizens. Some probably have stored guns elsewhere (I mean, showing their guns in the
Imam Ali Mosque may be a bit too much for pious Shiites), but it's interesting to compare
with many demonstrations of Hamas or Hizbullah for instance.
Not sure it's what you wanted.
Joe, look at the pic again.
The American has rounds of ammo coming out of this ass, no magazine in the Iraqi
weapon.
Totally OT, but this is an OT thread...
Could anyone explain to me what the reference is to in the expression "Mayberry
Machiavellis" which gained currency after DeIulio used it, because I don't get it. Thanks!
Also OT, be sure to go read DeAnander's fascinating text - and thread - on energy at the
Annex.
@Jerome:
For the full flavor of Mayberry Maciavelli's , just Google the phrase. It's hard to explain.
@CP
8/10 Patrol too bunched up--Mortar round would get 5.
5/17 Ditto. Get 6-10.
7/27 Turning out Iraqi motorized infantry in 5 days--PRICELESS.
Lot of pictures there. Just guessing.
JÃ©rÃ´me
DeIulio's use of the term 'Mayberry Machiavellis referred to Karl Rove and his aides...
"....[DeIulio} called the White House a bunch of "Mayberry Machiavellis" (to the non-US
folks, this refers to the old "Andy Griffith" comedy television show about a Southern sheriff
and his bungling sidekick (Andy Griffith and Don Knotts), set in the fictional town of
Mayberry)...
Source
How can any journalist with any ethics work with this rag?
@NEMO:
How much training are the folks getting that we are turning out to engage the "insurgency".
b,
You are right, we are being punked again. It just amazes me how this market suckers
people in and then the hedge funds suck the money out.
Have other been being sent viruses? I seem to get them more frequent lately.
Bushie was in our area today. This idiot wouldn't have a clue if it hit him in the forehead.
Has anyone been reading the articles about Ashcracks justice department and protesters.
Their inside memo said questioning potential protesters didn't violate free speech.
FH, my link must not have worked. Must go and try to fix.
Meanwhile a toast to Bernhard and Jerome for keeping things going (and for Nemo for all
the great links.)
I can imagine Billmon drinking good whiskey while anchored in some bay and saying "It's
good to get away." Hope he returns with with vengeance.
Night all.
RIDGE DECLARES LAVENDER TERROR ALERT
FULL STORY
Nemo - thanks
Funny - when googling the expression, the first hit is a Billmon post (from January this
year).
BTW - is there any intention to get Billmon to link to this site?
Juan Cole in an online questioning session with the WaPO. Good questions and good
answers.
Way OT, but.....
Why Do the Rovians Hate the Boss So Much?
"ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Upset with Bruce Springsteen's effort to oust President Bush from
the White House, the New York Conservative Party's candidate for the U.S. Senate is
launching a ``Boycott the Boss'' television commercial.....
"....A spokesman for O'Grady, Howard Lim, would not say how much the Long Island's
ophthalmologist's campaign was spending on the commercial, in which she says, `Ì stand
with President Bush and it's time to tame the liberal elite.''....
"...O'Grady, a conservative Republican, launched her campaign after Republican Gov.
George Pataki and the state GOP's leadership handed the party's Senate nomination to
Howard Mills, a little-known legislator who supports abortion rights and civil unions for
gays. Polls have shown Schumer running far ahead of both O'Grady and Mills."
The biter, bit
US 'bounty hunter' claims FBI links
Famous remembered words,often recalled in lonely, inhospitable prison cells all over the
world in between bouts of catching, befriending, training to tap-dance, falling out with and
then eating, cockroaches:
"Sure we're behind you - 100% Do you think we'd leave you hanging out to dry if
something went wrong with this thing? You have my word on this, we're going to support
you in every way that we can and if anything goes wrong we'll square things, trust me. You
think we'd abandon you when you're doing such important work for our country? The USA
doesn't work that way and I guarantee you, we'll look after you.
Saddam Hussein shot dead in Iraq
â€•â€¦Just hours earlier, an Iraqi national guard commander in Samarra was gunned
down along with a senior aide.
Lieutenant Colonel Ihsan al-Saji and Captain Saddam Hussein were killed on the main
highway north of Baghdad as they travelled to the capital, an interior ministry official said.
Al-Saji had "made alot of enemies" following repeated US-led anti-resistance operations in
Samarra, most recently on Saturdayâ€¦â€•
Iraqi groups claims Najaf spy captured
Thirty US soldiers killed in Iraq in August, so far
Livin' in a Gangstaâ€™s Paradiseâ€¦
â€•â€¦The prime minister's desire to invite Ayad Allawi to the Labour party's annual
conference is one of the odder stories to emerge since Tony Blair vanished into the
gangster luxury of Berlusconi's holiday home in Italy. Maybe the proximity to the sinister
Italian premier has skewed Blair's sense of what is right and what is possible in British
politicsâ€¦â€•
A history of blood and deception
Blair faces Labour conference walkout over invitation to Iraqi Prime Minister
Najaf, city of defiance
Iran through an Iraqi mirror
Chalabi, Feith and Israel - Theater of the Absurd in Iraq
Being as the pony show er, I mean the debates are coming up, is anybody familiar with
Denise Breton and Chris Largent, authors of the book
"The Paradigm Conspiracy" well, the most favorite part of this book for me has a section
on Debate vs Dialog that is very thought Provoking. Don't let the title of the book put you
off the subtitle is : "How Our Social Systems Violate Human Potential"
"We ain't scared of your steenkin' threats!"
Iran will go ahead with its nuclear plan - Khamenei
Not a serious topic, but remember the link to Wonkette that Billmon had a while back, with
exerpts from Washingtonienne's blog about the married republicans (and others) she was
boinking? Well... Washingtonienne was outed
Interesting article. She's lost her job. The guys have kept theirs.
Wonkette asks which man paid for sex with Washingtonienne.
Funny.
"We ain't scared of your steenkin' threats!"
@Nemo, or anyone, does anybody remember a flash/animation? a while back that had a
prediction of what the nuclear missle war was going to look like in the ME (middle east)it
was one of blank attacking blank and then blank attacking blank because blank attacked
blank...something to that effect... anyone? grrrr I wish I could remember it.
Actually, I think calling the Bush junta the Mayberry Machiavellians is an insult to
Mayberry...and I cannot think of one of them that could be Sheriff Andy Taylor.
Bush could fall right into the role of Otis, though Rove looks like Otis.
Jerome- Otis was the town drunk who would lock himself into the jail cell at night, btw.
Try googling The Andy Griffith Show instead and you'll get info on the source of the
characterization.
It's been on tv forever it seems, because of cable that's kept it constantly on reruns. The
black and white version is the best.
Opie (Andy's son) was played by Ron Howard, who went on to a really really annoying
show, Happy Days, and then became a director of movies like Apollo 13.
Al Quds al Arabi (in London), reports that Iraqi sources are claiming the presence of Israeli
officers with the American troops who are besieging and attacking Najaf. An Iranian
satellite TV station Al'alam has also reported that 11 Israeli officers are involved at Najaf.
While these â€˜sourcesâ€™ may be rumor-based, and I have no doubt that there are those
who â€˜see Israelis everywhereâ€™, and while it is true that Iran might have its own
reasons for levelling accusations at Israel, if there were any truth in the reports it will not
help tensions in the region.
Perhaps the expulsion of journalists from Najaf has created a climate where such reports
can be made and gain acceptance, perhaps the expulsion is not unconnected to the possible
presence of Israeli officers well practiced in rooting out people from confined spaces and
tunnels, perhaps there is no basis to the reports at all. I only have a link for Al Quds al
Arabi that provides an Arabic account of the reports â€“ as is so often the case in a situation
where rumor and propaganda abound, whether true or not it is the very existence and
circulation of the allegations that is likely to escalate suspicion and ill-feeling. I guess the
link is of no practical use to many but here it is, just to let you know what people in the
Arab world are being told.
Israelis at Najaf?
@ Uncle $cam
I do not know the thing to which you refer but if it is any comfort to you (?) here is a
reference to a report where â€•...On its front page, Al-Hayat had an important off-lead
story, this time related to Iraq's neighbor Iran, under the headline: "Tehran: Israeli
Installations Are Within Range of Our Missiles." The threat came in a statement yesterday
by a senior official in the Revolutionary Guards that Iran was "capable of hitting all
nuclear and military installations in Israel, in the event Iranian territory and installations
were attacked by Israel." This came amid growing anxiety in the Middle East that Israel
may try to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities in order to prevent it from developing atomic
weapons. It also came just days after the Iranians said they had successfully tested a
Shehab-3 missile, which has a range of up to 1,700 kilometers. The Revolutionary Guards,
which is among the most radical institutions in Iran, were recently given Shehab-3sâ€¦.
Coupled with consideration of the item you mention, the term â€˜Domino effectâ€™ could
easily mutate into a reaction that was not quite what its advocates intendedâ€¦.
oops. that was me with the Washingtonienne posts and the one about Mayberry.
Was it this one End of the World, Uncle?
Posted by: Kate_Storm | August 17, 2004 12:12 AM
Be sure to have your sound turned up... the narration is priceless. ;-)
Posted by: Kate_Storm | August 17, 2004 12:13 AM
@ FlashHarry
Forgive the lateness of this reply, but I overlooked your earlier question - apologies.
How much training are the local 'counter-insurgency' forces getting, you ask.
A good question, and the answer contains considerations that are not good ones for
America.
Aside from the rapid 'square-bashing', 'weapons training' 'check-point manning' 'joint
patrolling' courses, which last a number of months and which also include lectures on
intelligence acquisition, the law, fieldcraft, security et cetera, there are squads being trained
in 'special forces' kind of work. So far so good. The caliber of recruit ranges from raw
beginners to seasoned ex-Iraqi army personnel and from start to finish the training succeeds
to an extent in producing a disciplined enough body of men with each cohort drilled.
Efficiency, capability and morale are all hostage to the amount and quality of equipment,
and here things start to crumble somewhat. In addition, a reluctance on the part of many of
the new forces to fire upon their fellow Iraqis has prompted mutinies and mass desertions.
And here things crumble more. It is not, perhaps, high on the list of American worries who misses a few cowardly deserting ragheads after all? - but thus far they have signally
failed to correlate increasing Iraqi resistance capabilities with the onset of intensified
American training of locals and subsequent desertions.
Yes, you have it. All the fieldcraft, the military dispositions, the patrol patterns, the
preferences for 'X' or 'Y' ambushes according to topography and terrain, the set-piece
responses to Iraqi Resistance ambushes, the set-piece responses and disposition of troops
during bomb alerts, protests, post-attack incidents et cetera, the intelligence gathering
briefings, the weak spots on Humvees and Strykers, the armaments of each tank, fighting
vehicle and platoon, the bomb disposal techniques, the communications techniques and
channels - all this information is leaking out of the gate and into the clandestine training
programs of the Iraqi Resistance with each wave of desertions.
While it is true that the Americans can rely more on some of their Kurdish levies, and while
it is true that they do have Iraqi special forces, a by-product of the American training is that
it has been adopted and adapted by the very Iraqi Resistance the Americans are fighting
against.
I believe such leakage is usually classified under 'intelligence and technology transfer'.
Now friend, you tell me - how good is that?
;-)
Hackworth has got a new one up. The guy can definitely throw punches with both hands.
Here is a fascinating couple of paragraphs:
This isnâ€™t the first time Kerryâ€™s been sniped at. Joe Klein wrote in The
New Yorker that Nixon aide Charles Colson formed the Vietnam Veterans for
a Just Peace in 1971 solely to attack John Kerry.
Colson told Klein that Kerry â€œwas a thorn in our flesh. He was very
articulate, a credible leader of the opposition. He forced us to create a
counterfoil. We found a vet named John Oâ€™Neill and formed a group
called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had Oâ€™Neill meet the
president, and we did everything we could do to boost his group.â€•
Klein's original New Yorker piece is a long read.
It was my first deep peer into Kerry's complex persona. I distinctly remember saying--after
finishing the article in the Arizona winter sunshine-- "This is the only guy that can beat
Bush."
Well here we are almost nine months later, and I am starting to doubt that Bush is actually
going to be redefeated.
The goons are pulling out all stops. They are masters at rewriting the past. And they are
masters at planting a simple artful trope into the electorate's frontal lobes.
Just as Gore invented the Internet...Kerry is a nothing but a flip-flopper.
Call their technique: KiSSS
Keep it Simple Slander for Stupid.
That's how Republicans win elections.
If their 11th commandment is "Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow republicans" their
12th is: "All Republicans shall work a simple slander together."
Thus every right blogger, nut columnist and puerile pundit repeats the phrase: flip-flopper.
Just as they didn't quit on their Gore theme, so they don't flip-flop on their flip-flopping
meme.
They are very good at group think.
Do you suppose 100 years from now...Gore will appear in the Britannica as the creator of
the Internet and Kerry as a major acrobat?
No I am not kidding. That's how good they are.
Last election I remember talking with some fellow Americans who had absolutely zilch
going on behind their eyes. Yet they knew that "Gore was a liar 'cause he said he invented
the Internet."
How did that poison acorn get planted in those squirrel brains?
So yes the republicans are good. So good they are baaaad.
The question is: are they good enough to get a certifiable low-brow brute re-elected
President?
~~~~~~~~~~
MarcinGomulka:
Thanks for that fine quote.
~~~~~~~~~~
I coulden't believe my eyes when I saw the headlines on the site of my webserver:
US Government does not accept Chavez win The article is in German. Here a fast
translation of the first paragraph from the sda (swiss news service):
The US foreign office appreciates the work of the election observers of the OAS as well as
of former ex-president Jimmy Carter. Their conclusions, however, can not be accepted by
the foreign office in Washington, as the speaker Tom Casey explained.
I mean who do they think they are. Interesting when scanning through the headlines this
morning I did find nothing else on this.Has anyone seen more on this?
Ok. now I have to get going, work is waiting.
No no kate, and all, I found it... It's a little out of date, but you still get the picture and it's
chilling...
But that flash rawks too kate...lmfao!
Offensive stalls on need to negotiate - Iraq can't ignore rebel cleric's power
Useful analysis with input from an Iraqi academic who has spent much of his life in Najaf,
now teaching in the US, plus obligatory frothing from a right-wing nut American academic.
Training the military
Unemployed? Want to earn $11.25 an hour taunting American soldiers?
Hell, Iâ€™d do it for free!
Torture architect defends his tactics
ABU GHRAIB, Iraq, Aug. 16 -- The general in charge of detention operations in Iraq
defended his recommendation, made last fall, that military police at the prison here work
closely with military intelligence, saying the procedure was still being followed and had not
led to abuse of prisoners.
Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, whose proposals were criticized in a report on mistreatment
of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, said in an interview this weekend that abuses were caused by
"a small number of leadership and small number of soldiers who violated regulations and
procedures and committed criminal actsâ€¦."
Abu Ghraib policy defended - having MPs assist Intelligence didn't cause abuse, General
Says
Awwwww,
This made me want to curl-up and cry....
I want my mommy! ;-(
Nemo,
re: Your link to Robert Collier
In Nicaragua, El Salvador, Angola, Mozambique and the Balkans, the United States has
waged war -- either directly or through local proxy forces -- and finally supported peace
negotiations that gave amnesty to its foes and allowed them to gain significant chunks of
local power through democratic elections.
Refeshing to see a journalist with a grasp of history. The number of people killed by US
actions in Angola and Mozambique makes Iraq seem like the Hatfields and the McCoys.
Posted by: biklett | August 17, 2004 02:06 AM
@Uncle
If you want to discuss your Awwwww, or mommy,
you really ought to seach out Dr. Seuss, or Dr.
Freud.
Koreyel
Could it be...........that what we are talking about here..........under the guise of election year
politics..........is really a (not so subliminal ) sense that the bedrock cultural identity that so
many have sweated blood to achieve, is now being reformed and reshaped into a zero-sum
banality of self aggrandizement and sentimentality?
Could it be...........that fleet of mind sensation of real art is slowly being prevaricated,
bricked up and shut up buy a blanket of loyality and fear laid across the nation?
Could it be..........that unsettling notion that the progressive in all of the arts, have been
eshewed with a vengence by the minions of fascism, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and on.
Could it be............that the opposition here has no enlightenment to make, they can show no
great poem, no great painting, no great song, no great story, or great film. That they have
no mirror that sees beyond the self.
And could it be .......that is why we rage against the coming of the night?
Connecting dots... until particles turn to waves.
Greg Palast writes about "socialist" renaissance in Venezuela.
Israeli imperialism: Sharon Approves 1,000 Settlement Homes in W.Bank
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has approved
building tenders for 1,000 homes in Jewish settlements in the West Bank
frozen earlier to avoid upsetting the United States, political sources said on
Tuesday.
A political source said the move aimed to defuse resistance in Sharon's Likud
party to his Gaza pullout plan and to bring center-left proponents into his
coalition. Likud members are to convene on Wednesday to vote on a link-up
with the Labour party.
The sources said the tender package did not flout recent understandings with
Washington that any new homes would be built within existing construction
lines. But a U.S.-backed "road map" plan for peace between Israel and
Palestinians stipulates a freeze on "all settlement activity" in occupied
territory.
The US of course will do nothing.
Motherfuckers! : If You're On "The List", No Job For You This shit is really hard to
believe. A healthy fear of terrorists is one thing -- and an understandable reaction to
feelings of remorse over creating them -- but scrambling to make the most of the
opportunity to be a wingnut asshole is another. Anyone familiar with the human tendency
to screw up huge databases, use them for personal agendas and cretinously leave them
vulnerable knows where this is headed.
Those wicked evildoers who already know how to manipulate databases will continue to do
so. Those who fit some control freak's profile of of terrorist will be inconvenienced by stays
with torturers, er, I mean concerned interrogators. Any spineless or vengeful boss can make
your life miserable. One data entry can ruin your life. How many enthusiastic, well-paid
"keypunch operators" do you know? "Oops!" is not an acceptable reponse to trashing
someone's existence.
If one takes these idiots at their word and believe this really is designed to "fight terrorism",
one could easily conclude the planners are suffering from malignant self-regard. There is
no way they can pull off a system that's not going to get people hurt. I am shocked,
shocked, to see this crackpot approach to serious problems. This is what happens when an
elite is allowed to select for gladhanding and a childishly predatory view of humans.
@b
This could end in sanctions
Didn't know where to put this one. Interesting article about Chavez and the US by Greg
Palast.
Dick Cheney, Hugo Chavez, and Bill Clinton's band - Why Venezuela has voted again for
their 'negro e indio' president
Thanks, Fran. Viva Chavez! But I wish Palast would lighten up (no pun intended) on
blonds. Nothing like perpetuating a stereotype. He's brilliant otherwise. :)
@anna missed
You didn't miss at all. They are artless and angry--a lethal combo that has never augured
well.
Reminds me of the line photographer Ansel Adams used to describe the Reagan White
House: Men who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
@Fran.
The article links to a question JÃ©rÃ´me asked a while back: Who gets the (higher) oil
price money?
If the figures presented are correct, we are truly a nation of oil vampires--sucking the life
out from under the people who are the poorest.
But then too, the real diseased heart of the piece is the lurker in the background: Cheney in
his bunker--even now, one can imagine--plotting Chavez's assassination on the one hand
and engineering Nader's inclusion on the ballot with the other.
Suggestion for the next Bond movie villain: a rogue VP takes over a the White House and
plans world conquest from a bunker. Can 007 save the world form 43's right hand man?
@koreyel:
Re:007
Think Snake Plisken could do the job better.
Camper Van Beethoven's new concept album, New Roman Times will be a timely political
statement.
"Wacko-grape-koolaid-drinking-fascist-homophobe-Christian-right-winger-cretins vs.
smart, tolerant and decent people."
Bad foundations - the house that Uncle Sam built
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Furious national conference delegates accused the main political
parties of hijacking a scheduled vote for a new interim legislature for Iraq, saying most
members were chosen long ago in secret.
Several hundred delegates threatened to quit the conference on its last day unless the voting
mechanism was changed, before Fuad Maasum, head of the event's preparatory committee,
agreed to put the voting procedure itself to a vote.
"The mainstream political parties have dominated the conference and have already drawn
up their lists for selecting the national council," said Aziz al-Yasseri, from the broad
coalition National Democratic Movement....
Protestors accuse political bigwigs of hijacking Iraq's interim legislature
on oil: Newsday: 1.3 billion reasons to worry about oil
All these are disquieting harbingers of Beijing's coming conflict with the
United States over oil. It will come sooner than expected and the United States
is not prepared for it. This president or his successor must, at the very least,
alert the nation about its consequences, initiate a national conversation about it
and encourage a program of energy conservation to alleviate the obvious
economic pressures we will all face.
China's need for oil is the proverbial 800-pound gorilla in the room, and no
one seems willing to confront it or even acknowledge it -- until it's too late.
b/ernhard - is there a way we could have a permanent energy thread? The subject is going
to keep us all busy in the coming years and weeks...
Scenes from abroad
Taking care of business â€“ a British vehicle burns, Basra, August 17th
After the meeting, Basra, August 17th
In control, Basra August 17th
UK soldiers feared hurt in Basra - report
An Najaf, August 17th
Street scene, An Najaf, August 17th
In the arms of her uncle, a young Iraqi girl mourns her dead sister and mother, killed in
clashes between US troops and al Mehdi militiamen, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 17th
A motherâ€™s grief â€“ funeral of Faiza Ridha, 25, and Nura Ridha, 15, killed previous
night in clashes, between US troops and militiamen, Sadr City, August 17th
Al-Rasheed Street, Baghdad, August 17th. Seven died and scores were injured when a
mortar, presumably fired by Iraqi resistance fighters, struck this busy commercial street.
'Crisis? What crisis? - Ghazi al-Yawer, Ankara, Turkey, August 17th
'Interim President' Ghazi al-Yawer was appealing to international investors to place their
money in safe, stable, secure and sunny Iraq.
So 70,000 troops coming home?
US army is overstretched, not enough soldiers, only point is to grab more bodies to fight.
Wonâ€™t come home, be posted here and there in function of capabilities.
-- Scraping the bottom of the barrel : Luis, 57, with cancer, half deaf, high blood pressure,
called up from the Reserve:
Link
I'm involved in a big argument on the BBC MB about the Neocon call to boycott The Boss.
Here's the lyrics from "Born in the USA"
Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just covering up
[chorus:]
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I got in a little hometown jam
And so they put a rifle in my hands
Sent me off to Vietnam
To go and kill the yellow man
[chorus]
Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
I go down to see the V.A. man
He said "Son don't you understand"
[chorus]
I had a buddy at Khe Sahn
Fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone
He had a little girl in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms
Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years down the road
Nowhere to run, ain't got nowhere to go
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Any spot the main thing about the training picture here? 10 to the winner
CP I can't guess what you are after exactly, but all those kinds of pictures represent:
1) the Iraquis as poor, backward, massed: they are low in the image, the women are dressed
in shrouds, crowds with banners are figured, often prayers are pictured with people bent
over. When in the front, grinning or laughing people are shown presenting clumsy slogans
in English, or in weird impenetrable Arabic; their poor teeth and clothes are emphasised, a
background of dust and desolation, or dilapidated housing is subtly put forward.... Or
weeping, screaming, praying women who did not wish to be photographed are shown,
against a backdrop of ruins. It all reminds me of Palestine. Interiors are hardly ever shown,
as that would make Iraqis seem human - they have dining tables, stoves, children who do
homework, TVs and nice pictures on the wall like anyone.
2) US soldiers are shown front stage, looking resolute, determined, equipped, clean bright
and smart, or again, massed, but always in contrast to their surroundings (dust, dirt, poor
housing, burning cars, etc.) Their teeth tend to be impeccable, their expressions neutral or
sympathetic. And they are armed, big time.
I was thrown off a US board once for posting picture of a crying US soldier (head only).
There was a vote. The majority voted to ban me as the picture was considered 'provocative'
and 'not useful', 'polemical'. Feelings ran very high. I also received a storm of email from
dissenters. The picture was standard war photography, beautifully done. Therefore the
reaction - the power of pictures, yes.
@nemo - the picture Street Scene, An Najaf
The front two vehicles in the pictures are HMMVs with improvised armor to make them
open top infranty carriers. This is ridiculous - even the sowjets did away with these - one
handgranate, and the group is toast - just donÂ´t ask what an RPG will do. That is what
Bradleys were made for.
These GIÂ´s must feel totally screwed. All the money that goes to the military budget and
they drive around in this crap in a fighting zone.
@CP - no one can boycott the boss ...
â€œ...It's arrogant of us to go into a country and tell them what kind of government to
have..."
US public opinion on Iraq
US Army snipers from 1st Cavalry Division at work, Camp Eagle, outskirts of Sadr City,
Baghdad, August 16th
On left is Aaron McAlister, from Maypearl Texas and on right is Chuck Ayars, from
Nashville Tennessee.
Grenade and RPG fodder - US troops on evening patrol, Najaf, August 17th
Ambush in Ramadi
Profiles of the American dead at Ramadi
"..â€¦U.S. soldiers and Marines have stopped patrolling large swaths of Anbarâ€¦.."
British soldier killed in Basra
Iraqi conference emissaries leave Najaf shrine without meeting al-Sadr
Can 007 save the world form 43's right hand man?
Gee...I thought for sure someone was going to write: Not as long as Tony Blair is playing
the role of the mojo-less Austin Powers (you know with the bad hair and the horse teeth it's
a damn near perfect fit).
anon@1:17
Thanks for extending my knowledge base. One of the sweetest things about Wikipedia is
that it has all sorts of things you won't find in the more famous Macropedia with a thistle on
the cover:
Snake Plissken
@JÃ©rÃ´me and @bernhard--> I second the permanent energy thread.
@NEMO:
Re:Grenade and RPG fodder Picture.
Though it was welded on some, this looks like a death trap about 5 different ways.
NEMO, If you want to go out FARKING one night, don't ride in one of those pieces of shit.
Kate Storm @ 12:12Thanks for the "End of the World"! Had to get away from the blinking filters before I could
see it. WTF. =)
Promises, promises, - the 'War to end all wars'
The origins of terror - A war that is profoundly responsible for the world as it is today
@ FlashHarry
Waaaaaaaay upthread is my reply to your 'training question' Another question for you what is 'farking'? Is it halal?
@b real
props on dropping the new CVB album- I'm a fan from way back.
Otherwise too brain dead lately to catch up to this thread... m u s t f i n i s h t h e s i s...
cheers, allPosted by: Ã¦ | August 17, 2004 06:39 PM
"No, don't tell me - lemme guess what it is. Hmmm, sure beats the hell outta me - gimme a
clue. A what? A working man uses it? And just what in tarnation is a working man? Do you
mean we still got slaves who work here in Ridley Park, Pennsylvania? What's wrong with
robots? They're what? Taxes? Ha ha ha! That's brilliant! Who thought of it? Karl? OK,
somebody take this here shiny stick and let's blow this PWT town.
Posted by: Is this a dagger I see before me | August 17, 2004 06:55 PM
To koreyel:
Language framing is a fundamental problem, which is very difficult to escape. If you want
to be honest in a discussion, you answer the question directly. Which is the first mistake.
I run every day into fierce quasi-republican neoliberalism advocates on polish forums. They
have only know the example of a one-party soviet-block state and assume that the total
opposite must be the only right way.
Unfortunately 80% of Poles do not have access to the internet so they cannot take part in
the discussion. They are too poor. During the last years of capitalism 1996 - 2001 poverty
has actually doubled. from 4,3% to 9,5%. (below the minimum of existence).
http://www.ips.uw.edu.pl/serwis/ubostwo.htm
@NEMO:
WAAAAAY upthread we have a lot to talk about. I want to understand all this thoughly.
And I have some business paperwork to do tonight. Perhaps another night.
Fark.com is an American news service. I thought I had already introduced you to it. If not
you should check it out.
Of course it is halal, and probably kosher too.
Take care, my friend.
Night All.
just changed from s.bell to all cable conections
had a call from india from s.bell to give me a sales pitch.i said no thankyou but pray for us
we need to vote kerry,to which she giggled,yelped to
those around her who all yelled kerry kerry. i guess i've found a new way to deal with
oneline sales men
Posted by: onzaga | August 17, 2004 09:53 PM
Winning hearts and minds - all in a nightâ€™s work
â€•â€¦You are my friend!" he said he shouted. "This is Operation Iraqi Freedom! You are
my friend!"
A soldier pointed a rifle at him, al-Rawi recalled, and ordered, "Shut up or I'll kill you!â€¦"
For one family, â€˜Judgment Dayâ€™
Marines picked Najaf fight without Pentagon's OK
NAJAF, Iraq -- Just five days after they arrived here to take over from U.S.
Army units that had encircled Najaf since an earlier confrontation in the
spring, new Marine commanders decided to smash guerrillas loyal to the rebel
Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
In recent interviews, the Marine officers said they turned a firefight with
al-Sadr's forces on Aug. 5 into a eight-day pitched battle -- without the
approval of the Pentagon or senior Iraqi officials. It was fought out in
bloody skirmishes in an ancient cemetery that brought them within rifle shot
of the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiite Islam's holiest shrine. Eventually, fresh Army
units arrived from Baghdad and took over Marine positions near the mosque,
but by then the politics of war had taken over and the U.S. force had lost the
opportunity to storm al-Sadr's troops around the mosque.
...
As a reconstruction of the battle in Najaf shows, the sequence of events was
strikingly reminiscent of the battle of Fallujah in April. In both cases, newly
arrived Marine units immediately confronted guerrillas in firefights that
quickly escalated. And in both cases, the U.S. military failed to achieve its
strategic goals, pulling back after the political costs of the confrontation rose.
Interesting - now it was the marines who screwed up. This may be possible, but I have my
doubts - even gung-ho marine commanders need cover from higher up. Maybe someone at
the Pentagon has a short cut to the marines?
Put your seat belts on! get ready for one hell of a ride...
------"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the
attacks of September the 11th.."
--President Bush, speaking to the United Nations.
Eyes on Venezuela
Xymphora wrote: Can you imagine what politics would be like in the United States if there
was a political party willing and able to mobilize the American poor to protest and to vote?
Viva El Liberator: In Venezuela there is an attempt to show that there is a division. The
only division is between the majority who favour the constitution and a tiny group that is
against the sovereignty of the people that is guaranteed in the constitution. This group of
coup plotters is being financed by international capital, transnational companies and a
national oligarchy that is still very strong. But they never thought that the people would
defend the constitution in the way that they did.
The link above at 4:07 was not to the full article. The real one is at the NYT: 8-Day Battle
for Najaf: From Attack to Stalemate
More very interesting bits:
Senior officers in Baghdad, as well White House officials who discussed the
battle in Washington, say the latest fighting began when a Marine patrol drove
directly past one of Mr. Sadr's houses in Najaf - violating an informal
agreement that American units would stay away from Mr. Sadr's
strongholds, treating them as part of an "exclusion zone" that was at the heart
of the cease-fire in the city.
...
.. Ambassador John D. Negroponte, the top American official in Iraq, "decided
to pursue the case," one official said.
...
Marine commanders in Najaf acknowledge that they did little planning for the
battle, but say they gambled that they could reach the walls of the Old City so
fast that they would outrun the political firestorm sure to result.
...
the division did not know until the last minute that the 1,800 marines in Najaf
might need reinforcements.
...
But with the Army battalion unprepared to fight Saturday, the marines decided
to retreat.
...
In Baghdad, commanders seemed curiously disconnected. On Monday, Aug.
9, a senior military official told reporters that American forces had cut off Mr.
Sadr's forces in the Old City and the cemetery from the rest of Najaf. But no
cordon existed, and none would be set up until Thursday, when the second
Army battalion arrived.
...
The fight became a stalemate.
...
"We put a major hurt on his hard-core militia members,'' Major Holahan said.
"Things happened pretty well from a military point of view."
...
Mr. Sadr appeared to have once again withstood American threats and
firepower.
Now thatÂ´s the way to run an empire:
- troops act in a sensitive area without regards of political questions
- the Pro-Consul decides to pursue, not the "souvereign" pseudo king
- commanders donÂ´t plan before taking action, they gamble
- higher ups donÂ´t know whats happening
- reenforcements are not ready to fight
- central command doesnÂ´t know shit about whats happening
- the military initiative is lost
- anyhow the troops are full of self illusion
- the political fight is lost
This reinforces my experience and learned opinion from the 1980s that the US military is a
good equipped force, but has the most uneducated, incompetent and overweening middle
management possible.
Reading the above article and keeping in mind that the supply situation is in terrible shape nearly no trucks come through when several thousands are needed per day - I believe the
situation for the US has deteriorated much faster than thought and reported and will turn to
be untenable within a few weeks.
@Uncle $cam 4:11 - seat belts
Fantastic link!
Oh brother! Procrustean prosecutions â€“ Number 29,456, 392
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. prosecutors have found a possible
translation error in a key piece of evidence in the case against two leaders of a
New York mosque accused of supporting terrorism, a Justice Department
spokesman said on Wednesdayâ€¦.
â€¦.U.S. authorities had previously said an address book found in what they
called a terrorist training camp in northern Iraq in June 2003 referred to Aref
as ``the commander,'' but the Justice Department spokesman said FBI
translators now thought the Kurdish word actually meant ``brother...''
â€¦The New York Times quoted Nijyar Shemdin, the U.S. representative for
the Kurdistan Regional Government in Washington, as saying he did not see
how a translation would have come up with the word ``commander.'' He also
said Aref was referred to with the common honorific ``kak,'' which could mean
brother or misterâ€¦
Translation error found in NY terror sting case
Lynchings were so less problematicâ€¦
Anyone remember a place called Abu Ghraib?
US soldiers shoot two Abu Ghraib detainees dead
@NEMO:
1.How many troops have been turned out throughtout Iraq to today that have had 2-4
months of intensive US taught basic light infantry .
2.It seems to me that Iraq would need a force of 150000 to 250000, perhaps dived equally
between light infantry and paramilitay police, to both support the new Iraqi goverment
when it is elected, to engage what's left of the insurgency after elections, and to provide
border security and deter outside aggressors.
3. It's inexcusable that the new army don't have flack jackets and good helments, but you
see the crap our people ride around in.
Would appreciate you thoughts on these matters.
FlashHarry
â€œâ€¦It was not immediately clear if the Iraqi army and a multitude of other security
forces created in the wake of the March 2003 US-led invasion would be capable of
independently dealing with Sadr's Mehdi Army that draws its recruits from impoverished
young Shiites.
Rumsfeld insisted the forces available to the interim Iraqi government now counted about
200,000 men, of which 110,000 "probably are well-trained and well equipped."
But Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Richard Lugar
warned Sunday that if the the Iraqi government decided to take on Sadr on its own, it would
be "a close contest."
"It's touch-and-go whether they are trained enough -- that is, the Iraqi police -- to take on
Sadr now in Najaf," Lugar told Fox News.
A recent US congressional investigation has found Iraqi security forces are "unready" to
fight insurgents because their units remain inadequately trained, underequipped and suffer
from a high desertion rate.
As many as 82 percent of personnel deserted from Iraqi Civil Defense Corps units deployed
in Western Iraq and around Fallujah last April, when anti-American guerrillas launched a
spate of deadly strikes against coalition forces, according to a report released in late June
by the Government Accountability Office.
The desertion rate reached 49 percent in corps units deployed in and around Baghdad,
while in towns like Baqubah, Tikrit, Karbala, Najaf and Kut, it stood at 30 percentâ€¦.â€•
US pulls punch again
As I pointed out above, many, many of the 'deserters' take their training and utilize it in
their new role as drill instructors for the Iraqi resistance. This not only results in the loss of
personnel and an increase in Iraqi resistance numbers - details of all the tactics, strengths
and weaknesses of the US trained forces are being given to the Iraqi resistance fighters.
While it is sporting of the US military to train the opposition this way it will, ultimately,
prove to be a severe problem for them as any sane observer might imagine.
@NEMO:
Thanks. Pretty grim scenario.
Posted by: FlaqshHarry | August 18, 2004 04:29 PM
The role of journalism in America â€“ do you want intrepid investigative reporters or
sedentary surreptitious planters of US government lies and propaganda?
FIVE US journalists were found in civil contempt of court yesterday, after a
federal judge ruled they had failed to comply with a court order to identify
government sources used in their reporting on the case of Taiwanese-born
nuclear scientist Wen Ho Lee.
Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson also imposed on each of the five a $US500
($699)-a-day fine, but stayed its collection until an appeal can be heard.
Under the order, James Risen and Jeff Gerth of The New York Times, Robert
Drogin of The Los Angeles Times, Josef Hebert of the Associated Press and
Pierre Thomas of ABC News are to continue paying the fines until they
comply with the disclosure order.
â€¦Last October, the five reporters were ordered by a federal court here to
"truthfully answer questions as to the identity of any officer or agent of
defendants, or any of them, who provided information to them directly about
Wen Ho Lee".
All of them have refusedâ€¦.
George Freeman, assistant general counsel for The New York Times Co, said
an appeal would be filed immediately.
"The Times continues to believe, as we have for decades, that confidential
sources are critical for us to give the public as broad a perspective as possible
on the important issues of the day, particularly when they concern the actions
of governments," Freeman said in a written statement.
Journalists found in contempt â€“ fined
Ah yes, protection of sources â€“ the vigilance of the press and the holding to account of
the actions of governments. How odd it is that it seems to be the refusal to divulge the
identities of leakers of pro-government information to journalists that is most commonplace
nowadays â€“ do the names Valerie Plame or Judith Miller ring any alarm bells? There
may be tremendously important journalistic ethical grounds for defending and trying to
conceal media complicity in an attempt to destroy a man's life but I can't think of any right
now.
Who said crime doesn't pay?
Demand helps CACI profit increase 56%
Lucky shareholders, counting their extra bucks without having to hear the sounds of
beaten, raped, sodomized shrieking Iraqis.
Abu Ghraib - by someone who was there
The Conscience of Joe Darby
Extensive nine page article on the Abu Ghraib whistleblower â€“ a tale of torture, child
prisoners and the hostility he and his family are experiencing back home in America.
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« Knock, knock | Main | Bad Choice »
Moon of Alabama: Knock, knock
And
must
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Oh, you
know
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« Gods and Daemons | Main | Off Topics - Open Thread »
August 16, 2004
Knock, knock
inÂ·timÂ·iÂ·date: to make timid or fearful : FRIGHTEN; especially : to compel or deter by
or as if by threats
Knock, knock:
● Will you take part in that demonstration?
● Is your neighbor planing to do so?
● What about your sister?
● Will your parents be there too?
● At that demonstration, are you planning disruptions?
● Are you planing violence?
● Do you know anybody who is doing so?
● Do you realize, that it is a crime to withhold such information?
Thank you. WeÂ´ll be back!
[The Justice Department's Office of Legal Policy, in a five-page internal
analysis] ... said any First Amendment impact posed by the F.B.I.'s monitoring
of the political protests was negligible and constitutional.
The opinion said: "Given the limited nature of such public monitoring, any
possible 'chilling' effect caused by the bulletins would be quite minimal and
substantially outweighed by the public interest in maintaining safety and order
during large-scale demonstrations."
...
In the last few weeks, beginning before the Democratic convention, F.B.I.
counterterrorism agents and other federal and local officers have sought to
interview dozens of people in at least six states, including past protesters and
their friends and family members, about possible violence at the two
conventions. In addition, three young men in Missouri said they were trailed
by federal agents for several days and subpoenaed to testify before a federal
grand jury last month, forcing them to cancel their trip to Boston to take part
in a protest there that same day.
...
"The message I took from it," said Sarah Bardwell, 21, an intern at a Denver
antiwar group who was visited by six investigators a few weeks ago, "was that
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/knock_knock.html (1 von 4) [16.11.2004 18:47:02]
they were trying to intimidate us into not going to any protests and to let us
know that, 'hey, we're watching you.' ''
...
The three men "were really shaken and frightened by all this," [Ms. Lieberman
(ACLU)] said, "and they got the message loud and clear that if you make plans
to go to a protest, you could be subject to arrest or a visit from the F.B.I."
NYT: F.B.I. Goes Knocking for Political Troublemakers
Comments
It was better in the original German.
(sorry, Bernhard!)
It's time to rename FBI "Secret State Police" now.
'Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers...
And neutralize them,
neutralize them,
neutralize them'
[guitar riff]
Wake Up -- Rage Against The Machine
Coming to America...
The Goss wish list
Be afraid - be very afraid.
Yet another example of how much this is a war being engaged on the psychological
battlefield. People can be neutralized by their very own minds & ideas. Nifty trick, isn't it?
There's a saying that could motivate those who are optimistic( or further imprison those
who aren't): It's not possible to know what's possible.
Knock knock..
Who's there? . Are we a police state yet,daddy? No, not yet son. Are we a police state
now? No. Are we now?
NYT today has an editorial on the issue: Interrogating the Protesters
The F.B.I.'s questioning of protesters is part of a larger campaign against
political dissent that has increased sharply since the start of the war on terror.
At the Democratic convention, protesters were sent to a depressing
barbed-wire camp under the subway tracks. And at a recent Bush-Cheney
campaign event, audience members were required to sign a pledge to support
President Bush before they were admitted.
F.B.I. officials insist that the people they interview are free to "close the door
in our faces," but by then the damage may already have been done. The
government must not be allowed to turn a war against foreign enemies into a
campaign against critics at home.
Jim Hightower article in The Nation : Bush Zones Go National
in May of last year, the Homeland Security Department waded butt-deep into
the murky waters of political suppression, issuing a terrorist advisory to local
law enforcement agencies. It urged all police officials to keep a hawk-eyed
watch on any homelanders who [Warning: Do not read the rest of this sentence
if it will shock you to learn that there are people like this in your country!]
have "expressed dislike of attitudes and decisions of the US government."
MEMO TO TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HSD: Sir, that's everyone. All
280 million of us, minus George Bush, you and the handful of others actually
making the decisions. You've just branded every red-blooded American a
terrorist.
Bookmark the Know Your Rights pamphlets by the National Lawyers Guild or pass them
along.
Re the NYT article, the second comment in this thread at infoshop contains part of a letter
to the ed addressing some innaccuracies in that article.
During the Vietnam era I knew a guy who had burned his draft card on stage. About 6
months after that the FBI knocked on his door and told him they wanted to talk with him.
He told them he didn't want to talk with them, and they should go away. I knew him a year
after that and nothing further had happened.
Later we learned that if you answer one question for a Grand Jury, you have to answer all
of them.
I'm not a lawyer, but based on what I've seen I would refuse to talk with the FBI or let them
in. No good can come of it, you are on the 'red list' forever once you've gotten on it. And
getting on the list depends less on what you do than it does on what they believe.
All part of growing up.
Posted by: serial catowner | August 17, 2004 08:58 PM
thanks, folks, for alerting me to this. I wondered why I seemed to be being watched lately I arranged a meeting with some old friends who definitely would be on a watch list. I am
printing the articles to share with them, in case they're not aware (yeah, right) and e-mailed
them to other friends who are on list-servs.
We laughed at the scene about the San Diego peace group in Fahrenheit 9/11 - but it's
coming to your town now, and serial catowner - I was on the list in the '70s, so I think
you're right - I'm going to be on it now.
Posted by: francoise | August 18, 2004 11:35 AM
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« Gods and Daemons | Main | Off Topics - Open Thread »
Moon of Alabama: Gods and Daemons
And
must
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whiskey
Oh, you
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« Billmon: All at Sea | Main | Knock, knock »
August 15, 2004
Gods and Daemons
In an Los Angeles Times Op-Ed, Sam Harris rants about religion as "Holly Terror"
President Bush and the Republicans in the Senate have failed â€” for the
moment â€” to bring the Constitution into conformity with Judeo-Christian
teachings. But even if they had passed a bill calling for a constitutional ban on
gay marriage, that would have been only a beginning. Leviticus 20:13 and the
New Testament book of Romans reveal that the God of the Bible doesn't
merely disapprove of homosexuality; he specifically says homosexuals should
be killed: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have
committed an abomination; they shall be put to death."
... Koran 9:123 tells us it is the duty of every Muslim man to "make war on the
infidels who dwell around you." Osama bin Laden may be despicable, but it is
hard to argue that he isn't acting in accord with at least some of the teachings
of the Koran. ... Religious faith is always, and everywhere, exonerated. It is
now taboo in every corner of our culture to criticize a person's religious
beliefs. ... There are now more people in our country who believe that the
universe was created in six solar days than there were in Europe in the 14th
century. ... It is time we recognize that religious beliefs have consequences. As
a man believes, so he will act. ... perhaps it is time we subjected our religious
beliefs to the same standards of evidence we require in every other sphere of
our lives.
The last sentence does not make much sense to me. Beliefs and evidence are antagonisms.
Asking for reason and moral behaviour, as Harris implicit does, should lead him to one
simple sentence:
Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that
it should become a universal law. Link
The Â´beliefÂ´ system nearest to Kant is Buddhism. Its practices are reasoning only about
inner goods and evils, gods and daemons, and not on higher external deities. That, in my
view, disqualifies it as religion, even though Harris mentions it as such.
The historical records and current conflicts show various religions having evil
consequences. ShouldnÂ´t we find ways to overcome them or at least diminish their
ramifications?
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/gods_and_daemon.html (1 von 7) [16.11.2004 18:47:07]
Comments
Book choice
Well worth a read is The New Crusades - Contructing the Muslim Enemy by Emran
Qureshi, Michael A. Sells (Editors).
The book deals with the 'extremist' elements of a number of religious traditions and
churches and has some fine rebuttals of the 'inevitable clash of civilisations' theorizing that
some quarters are using to galvanize support and to generate antipathy. For every action
there is a reaction - this book won't do you any harm at all...
Wouldn't it be a nice start if we could for the beginning just believe in one another, instead
of in some lofty abstraction, however loving, caring, oppressive or lethal it may be?
animism any one?
better yet, panpsychism?
I believe in the Whiskey Bar but then that entails spirits within the body. =)
yes beg, and isnt that the ghost of Teilhard de Chardin down at the end of the bar?
@beq
Sitting through a storm at the scotch coast with some Lagavulin in reach is quite a
meditation. :-))
"God is dead -- The WTO has replaced Him."
Religion is dangerous when left to the mind of man. The economic movement of the new
Gilded Age has used religion and morals through the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat
Robertson to convince the masses that the repubs are on gods side in their moral crusade.
At the same time, the free market and tax cuts are gods will instead of being your brothers
keeper. So as the flock of sheeple are being lead by the moral crusaders, the supposed hand
of Adam Smith is working its magic and creating a bunch indebted poupers. Grover
Norquest great vision is to create so much debt and ruin SS as to bankrupt the central
government. All while we get saved and asure our place in heaven.
What an America we live in.
The Freedom to believe all sorts of weird things is supposed to be part of our
Constitution....as is the freedom to not be subject to others' weird beliefs.
And that's the problem we have now.
The fundies in this country are just as wacky as someone who practices voodoo...or just as
connected, I guess, if you view it that way.
So I don't begrudge anyone the right to believe what they want to believe, but those beliefs
should not be taught in our publically funded schools, nor should they be part of our govt
policy.
The problem with the U.S. is the same as it ever was...the anti-intellectualism that is as
apple pie as grandma and the snake she handled.
The problem is when you have a large group of people in a country who use religious
beliefs as a political issue to gain and keep power, and make it impossible to have a rational
discussion about the subject.
Once again, the south, that bastion of slavery, jim crow, the scopes monkey trial, and now
George Bush, is one of the biggest problems this nation faces...and again, when I say this,
I'm saying it as someone who grew up in that same religiously dysfunction south.
It's not just the south, of course, because there are other areas with large populations of un
or under-educated religious populations...Scarborough country...Boston...
Again, the problem in the U.S. is a lack of education. That's also the problem with other
aspects of our govt., too...the reason white blue collar men vote against their interests...the
reason media personalities have a following, even though they play to stupidity.
Any religion that thinks its mission is to convert the infidel, whoever they may label the
infidel or heathen or whatever is a problem.
India had problems with the Hindu fascists, too, and they just recently (finally) lost their
hold on power.
Blaming religion is short sighted if that is regarded as he prime enemy of peace and justice.
Organised religions (yes Buddhism too ask the repressed of Thailand) are nothing more
than the false philosophical basis for large power structures. I don't have much time for the
average person's adherence to two thousand year old superstitions but really it's not the
superstition that is at fault it is greedy power hungry people who seek to use that
superstition to their own ends that are the problem.
As long as people seek to organise themselves into large societies they will be vulnerable to
the self seeking. It doesn't matter if they organise themselves into 'rationalist' societies; a
Stalin will come and corrupt that. And as we can see from Bernhard's link something as
seemingly simple and logical as Kant's Categorical Imperative is easily twisted and
manipulated to seemingly justify anything. The beauty of this approach by the
megalomaniacs is that instead of arguing the act, the believers instead argue the irrelevant
philosophical points that 'justify' the act.
Organising societies into smaller groups has several advantages. People are likely to know
their leaders better and are therefore more aware of flaws and less likely to be misled. The
stakes aren't so high therefore the temptations of corruption are lessened and finally leaders
are able to do less damage to a group of 200 followers than 200 million.
There are of course disadvantages for example minority groups are more likely to have
their needs trampled on within a small society of otherwise homogenous beliefs. That is
why the idea of a constitution which can protect the rights of all in a large group of small
societies appears desirable. Unfortunately a central set of rules also contains huge power
and can be subverted to meet the needs of a few.
The truly demoralising thing about all this is that after thousands of years of trying,
humanity's attempts at grouping people into fair societies still end in the same self
destruction motivated by greed and hubris.
When I read - Holly Terror - I was hoping it was going to be about the Druid Army of
God(s).
Posted by: biklett | August 15, 2004 09:41 PM
well said Debs'04, although it is a little odd that the mere size of a population could make
such a difference, but often it seems to be the case. The person to person accountability and
the net responsability of power, in smaller groups, is a necessity in adapting to changing
circumstances that face the group, as a fact of survival.
It could also be noted that the treatment of differing "inclinations" ie homosexuality, are
very often integrated as a naturally occuring/ expected part of the cultural makeup. Native
American culture as one example.
Posted by: ann missed | August 15, 2004 10:06 PM
THE CHRIST CONSPIRACY
The Jesus Mythos is similar to the Buddha Mythos is simular to the....
The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S. is an incredible erudite read, though academic , it is
easy to read, it is Controversial and explosive, She publicly reveals information that
radically undermines unquestioning faith and institutionalized mythic-membership
structures (churches, clerical priesthoods, and religious orders) that have censored dissent
and stifled individuality. I found why I have always felt something was not right with this
religion or any religions...after reading her book. while I am aware that people need
comunity religion seem to be nothing more than pseudo-communities. Group dynamics
(even blogs)fulfill needs, but can be just as easily be high-jacked by outspoken charismatic
usually white male who dominate groupthink. Religions are nothing more than meme's to
me i.e.(mind virus's).
@Uncle:
" Group dynamics (even blogs)fulfill needs, but can be just as easily be high-jacked by
outspoken charismatic usually white male who dominate groupthink."
Well Uncle, I have to agree with you on this one utterly.
What I saw happen over at Whiskey Annex, in it's first three weeks, was a lot of attempted
hijackings and turf-agenda wars going on over a very small piece of real estate.
Most amusing. Reminded this historically inclined one to think hard on Thirty Years War
and Russian Revolution(1923-1937).
Not quite sure anymore what is more dangerous: religious pimps with visions or
intellectual pimps with dreams and systems. They all seem equally like lunatics to me.
I had that one real squared away in my mind 4 weeks ago.
My ultimate belief system has been somewhat modified by my recent observations.
Anyway, I enjoyed your multiple citations of Mr. Bageant. He has some really interesting
thoughts and takes on things.
Thanks for introducing me to Bageant.
FlashHarry,
I was gone for a month right as Billmon closed the bar so I missed the transition here to
Moon of Alabama. What do you mean by your reference to the Whiskey Annex? Is this not
the annex that was being discussed when he closed the bar? Thanks for clearing this up for
me.
Posted by: Sassybelle | August 15, 2004 11:33 PM
John Varley has an interesting little essay on religion, hate and red vs blue America. Funny,
poignant and a bit of satire for an evening read. Welcome back, Sassybelle.
Posted by: SME in Seattle | August 15, 2004 11:55 PM
@Sassybelle:
When Bill closed the Bar, two sites were set up simultaneously: Moon and Whiskey
Annex. The takeoff here went well;the takeoff at WA was a little rocky.
We're trying to rebuild over there--good people working on it.
Enjoy where you are for the time being. It's a nice place.
@SME:
Better than In Re:Varley v. US:
Us simply trades Alaska to Canada in exchange for BC and Alberta. We migrating Reds get
the Calgary Stampede and some bad-assed hockey too: just in case we get homesick.
That way, the 20,000,000+ Red Army will not show up on your lawn in Seattle requesting
their vodka ration, in mid-November, if the election turns out wrong.
As I said before, any idea, ideology etc. as well as religion can be and was/will be hijacked
by few without moral. If we let them. God knows how but seems like those without moral
(just because of it) always manage to accomplish their goal. At least temporarily. They
manage to corrupt us , to mislead us, to force usâ€¦whatever. As much as we are individuals
we are also â€œsocial animalsâ€•. They exploit this greatly.
There is no idea, ideology or religion (anywhere in the world) that those people canâ€™t
hijack and corrupt. So instead going after the idea, ideology or religion we should go after
THOSE people. The only way to do it as far as I understand would be to minimize their
chances through adequate promotion of freedom. I donâ€™t believe that strong in
constitution, laws etc. as such (they are just instruments) cause as unscrupulous as they are
they can change it easily (what we are witnessing now in USA or in USSR & other
communist countries before).We need free thinkingâ€¦they canâ€™t allow it.
Extremist base found?
Cave linked to John the Baptist found in Israel?
Damn! With this publicity the IDF will probably blow it up claiming it was used by radicals
as a recruiting and indoctrination baseâ€¦
Attention: Please adjust your seats to an upright position and fasten your lap-belts, we are
about to enter the Dark Ages. Again.
@BEQ:
Re:Dark Ages
Bageant is something else, as an analyst.
And believe me, it's happening.
I see it all around, in my area of Virginia.
@ anon: I've seen enough to worry but his piece was a cold shower. I'm in Virginia too.
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« Billmon: All at Sea | Main | Knock, knock »
Moon of Alabama: Billmon: All at Sea
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« Paraskevidekatriaphobics | Main | Gods and Daemons »
August 15, 2004
Billmon: All at Sea
While the barkeeper is out, there is still a lot to be talked about.
If you have a theme for a thread in mind, please let me know or send me your texts.
Comments
We chose, in this millenniumÂ´s first test,
Between two lesser heirs, who, at their best,
If theyÂ´d be born as sons of other pops,
Might hope to be elected sheriff, tops.
...
NYT: A War in Nine Stanzas
Hope this is an OT. Well, here is some tin-hat material. Amazing how even sex-scandals
somehow seem to point to Israel.
An Israeli / Rove Connection? The McGreevey Scandal
And then there is this article from Haaretz:
Afraid of its own shadow The US today as seen through the eyes of an Israeli.
This makes you long for the Italy of 'Don Camillo e Pepone'.
Blair's Italian fiasco
Pictures from Najaf
Fran, interesting article re Blair and the freebee Italian holiday.
Hope the fucker get's food poisoning, dives into an empty swimming pool and takes 10
hours to die.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/billmon_all_at_.html (1 von 10) [16.11.2004 18:47:16]
Fran, how did they get Vanunu?
CP, I don't know much about Vanunu - except that he was a wistleblower, who informed
about Israel's nuclear industries and weapons. Hope that is correct?
Impressive pictures from Najaf. I sure hope it is not going to explode.
CP, I don't know much about Vanunu - except that he was a wistleblower, who informed
about Israel's nuclear industries and weapons. Hope that is correct?
Impressive pictures from Najaf. I sure hope it is not going to explode.
Ooops - sorry for the double post!
Vanunu was "honeytraped" in Rome by a Mossad "prostitute".
Well the Allawi has booted all the media out of Najaf..........
Those Najaf photos supposedly represent some of the thousands of Iraqis who are
streaming in to act as human shields. Juan Cole's also reporting that Sunnis in Falluja are
sending aid to the shiites in Najaf.
meanwhile, as CP notes, "Journalists urged to leave Najaf". I guess they don't want any
witnesses.
Posted by: dirtgirl | August 15, 2004 12:20 PM
Die you ragheads, meanwhile hurricane in Florida.... and the main event the Corporate
Games.
Thanks CP! Wow, that Vanunu stuff is usually stuff I expect to find in fiction. But I guess
this is one more example of reality out-doing fiction.
Philip Marchand takes an interesting look at American eloquence. I do agree with him
mostly. However since reading the comments on this site and at the Annex I must say that
this theory does not necessarily fit all Americans. But still, as a trend it is clearly visible.
Baseball, apple pie and speaking like an idiot - Lack of eloquence a U.S. tradition
@CP and dirtgirl....
Re: Najaf Pix:
Remember Rumskull's swaggering statements about how we had nothing to fear from the
docile Arab Street back when he first started his blitzkrieg murder?
Maybe he could stop by for a photo-op right now?
Russian scientists claim discovery of alien spaceship wreckage in Siberia
No prizes for guessing why 'they' haven't been bothered to come back....
WHEN troopers of the US 101st Airborne Division first entered the Iraqi city of Najaf 17
months ago, they were greeted by huge and welcoming crowds chanting "Die Saddam,
die".
Now?
http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=941632004
Way OT but.....
Josh Marshall's latest forced me to go looking at polls.
Here's a capsule from Zogby's latest that is pretty damned positive, especially that last part
in bold...
"....Pollster John Zogby: â€œKerry leads in the Blue States by 17 (54%-37%) while Bush
leads in the Red States by 6 (47%-41%). Good news for the President: he is back to
attracting 86% of Republicans, while Kerry gets 79% of the Democrats. However, Kerry
leads 49% to 31% among Independents."
In other words, the all important Swing has the butt of John Kerry solidly on its seat.
During a rehearsal of the opening ceremonies, the half-full stadium booed the United
States.
Gosh, I for the life of me can't figure out why they would do that...
Just an ordinary Sunday - US 1st Cavalry Division, Baghdad, August 15th
Wadi al-Salam (Valley of Peace) cemetery, Najaf, August 15th
1st Cavalry Division troops dealing with a terrorist suspect, Baghdad, August 15th
Out and about winning hearts and minds, Baghdad, August 15th
A Najaf market scene, August 15th
Part of the crowd at the â€˜democraticâ€™ Iraqi â€ñationalâ€™ conference, Baghdad,
August 15th
Meal break, Najaf, August 15th
Waiting, Najaf, August 15th
Neighborhood watch, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 15th
Out and about winning hearts and minds II, Shred-in, Seoul, South Korea, August 15th
Checkpoint, Sadr City, Baghdad, August 15th
â€˜Dove of Peaceâ€™ and companions, near Imam Ali Shrine, Najaf, August 15th
US troops reacting to aerial bombing of Najaf cemetery, August 15th
Tidying up the home after visit by US warplanes, Samarra, August 14th
Out and about winning hearts and minds III â€“ 1st Cavalry Division troops stop a family
trying to take a critically wounded relative by truck to hospital, Sadr City, August 14th. The
man died.
How very unlike life on Walton's Mountain it all is...
Lots of ambulances from the surrounding area, all journalists evacuated and banned from
the city, the tanks have been stationed around the city centre again... Waiting for the
bloodbath.
Who will win the battle? That's pretty clear.
Who will lose the war? See above.
Interesting collection Nemo. Where is your link to the Abu Ghraib movies?
And this is what the foreign policy elite has to say:
Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi should crush a rebellion in Najaf and other
cities to avert an erosion in the credibility of his interim government,
Republican and Democratic U.S. lawmakers said.
Iraq Faces Credibility Threat in Najaf, U.S. Lawmakers Say
What will these guys crush while the US experiences an erosion in the credibility of its
government?
Exodus
Iraqi Christians leave their country en masse after deadly church attacks - August 15th
Incidentally, the 'crowd scene' picture from the 'democratic' Iraqi 'national' conference
above seems to have been deleted from the original source. It was of a solitary woman in a
burkah, with rows and rows and rows of empty seats stretching away into the distance
behind her all the way to a small knot of men at the back of the hall. I wonder why such an
historic scene might have been deleted? And how come no 'jubilant Iraqis' were brought in
to fill all those empty seats? Someone must have looted the psy-ops budget.... I have my
own copy of the picture, which I shall now treasure for its rarity and the fact that it was so
swiftly removed from public view must indicate that it is highly sought after, eh?
Nemo, Here is a link to comments by Riverbend on the above.
Dispute Over Najaf Disrupts Iraqi Political Conference
After the letter was drafted, a four-person delegation from the conference met
with Allawi. When the meeting was over, the government announced that its
moves to use force to expel Sadr from the shrine were on hold. In a
reversal from its position a day earlier, Allawi's cabinet pledged to refrain
from military action against Sadr's militiamen and keep an "open door" to a
negotiated settlement.
Now what will Lugar/Biden say to "sovereign" Allawi?
b, I'm having fun trying to read Chandrasekaran's article. It seems (1.) that the conference
has stayed Allawi's hand, and (2.) that the conference is run by Ibrahim Nawar and Ashraf
Jehangir Qazi--two U.N. people, one of them a Pakistani. We know (3.) that the U.N. is
where Negroponte just came from, leading me (4.) to infer that Negroponte (and Blackwill,
if he's still in Baghdad) are moving rather quickly to cool off the fighting in Najaf. But if
so, then who sent the USMC into the cemeteries last week, and why?
The inevitable - but who is going to recognize it, and when?
Homage to a Government
Next year we are to bring all the soldiers home
For lack of money, and it is all right.
Places they guarded, or kept orderly,
We want the money for ourselves at home
Instead of working. And this is all right.
It's hard to say who wanted it to happen,
But now it's been decided nobody minds.
The places are a long way off, not here,
Which is all right, and from what we hear
The soldiers there only made trouble happen.
Next year we shall be easier in our minds.
Next year we shall be living in a country
That brought its soldiers home for lack of money.
The statues will be standing in the same
Tree-muffled squares, and look nearly the same.
Our children will not know it's a different country.
All we can hope to leave them now is money.
Philip Larkin
From High Windows (1971)
Thank you beq, she is a very perceptive and gifted young woman with a huge and caring
heart.
â€¦The places are a long way off, not here,
Which is all right, and from what we hear
The soldiers there only made trouble happenâ€¦.
Iraqis say soldiers rob them
An army of thugs
Common ailments of our times â€“ difficulty swallowing
â€•â€¦Away from the fury of battle, the Western powers were calmly assessing the likely
outcome of a struggle for the soul of Iraq. A German diplomat probed his British
counterpart on the significance of the absence of all four grand ayatollahs from Najaf at
the same time. There was no senior religious figure in the city who could stop the conflict
with a single call to negotiate. "It's entirely a coincidence," said one Western
envoyâ€¦.â€•
The Ayatollah and the Firebrand
DÃ©jÃ vu
Offensive resumes in Najaf, prompting desertions of Iraqi troops
You just canâ€™t get the Benedict Arnold types these daysâ€¦.
@NEMO 8:00PM:
Enlist or go to juvie or the pen' is a time-honored tradition. U.S. court system and service
recruiters are equally complicit. It's been going on for a very long time. The % cited in the
one link is probably correct.
It is evident that the raids should be supervised better, but given the track record of this
administration's ability to plan anything, Re:Iraq, it's all sadly predictable.
Wish I could say it wasn't so.
Newsday article is a compelling read.
b: to follow up on 7:44 PM, Newsweek (August 23) reports that Allawi summoned the
Marines to attack in Najaf. How does Allawi summon Marines? On whose advice? On
what terms (think of Conway striking his separate truce at Fallujah)? Did the Marines agree
to comb through the cemeteries, and refuse to advance any further? If so, then the
goings-on in the conference look pretty hollow....
b: I don't know when the conference was scheduled. Two months ago? Two weeks ago?
One week ago? I entertain the possibility that Negroponte and Blackwill, having decided to
support Allawi, saw that they'd have to (1.) let him summon the Marines and that they'd
then need (2.) an "Iraqi" occasion to stay his hand, and so they (3.) set up the conference to
do precisely that (through the offices of Ibrahim Nawar and Ashraf Jehangir Qazi). But if
so, why didn't Chandrasekaran simply report it that way? Well, he's a good reporter, but
things on the ground may be too chaotic to follow, and if so, there's no way the American
Embassy is going to help him track this stuff.
Good piece on Iraq, though it starts out with Hurrican Charley and the 7 Florida minutes.
The imperfect media storm or George Bush and the Temple of Doom
b: thereby conserving the Marines, the Mosque, and the figment of Iraqi
government--something out of the "Commedia dell'Arte".
An excellent link, Fran. Thanks for this one! It takes us through each and every step, and in
detail, leading up to this weekend's opera buffo. The link to Pfaff is also extraordinary, but
then Pfaff is always extraordinary.
Riverbend on Sistani:
... he has come down with some bug or other and had to be shipped off to London for
check-ups. That way, he can remain silent about the situation. Shiâ€™a everywhere are
disappointed at this silence. They are waiting for some sort of a fatwa or denouncement- it
will not come while Sistani is being coddled by English nurses.
Yeah right... and he hasn't left Najaf prior to this in 40 years.
Just wondering out loud here... but don't people worry more about dying the older they get?
Risk-takers and firebrands are almost always young.
That's always seemed a bit of a paradox to me given that the young have the most to lose
and the aged the least.
Arguably the best time to jump out of airplanes is when you are 80.
At any rate--is Sistani's passivity the wisdom of a veteran or the docility of an old man?
Obviously, al-Sadr has settled this question in his own mind.
A few more questions:
Does history tell us anything about young and brash leaders who are willing to die against
invaders?
Do they fade? Or do they inspire?
I tend to believe they inspire.
If so, this is yet another lose-lose-lose-lose move by our wonderfull inept leaders.
Holy Moe...we got some real stooges running our country.
And now the WaPo has just posted a report from Karl Vick that the Marines are fighting in
the streets of Najav. Who gave the orders? How many marines? how far into the city?
Must confess, the thing about the Tom Dispatch piece that struck me, and I hate to go here,
but, we enter Najaf then pull back, we" squeeze" Najaf, then let in fresh relief, we assult
once more, then withdrawl for a little talk, then punch back in, and on and on and on. I'm
sorry, but after Abu-Graieb, just what in the hell is going on here........... is the US military
trying to fuck this place to death?
What masterful vision could have led the (once) good name of the USA into such a
dispicable morass of the profane and the squalid, a pornographic killing field on the steps
of religious piety. Now thats the surgery to win over hearts and minds.
The forest pygmies in africa describe a person that is ill as being "dead", a person very ill as
"really dead", gravely ill as "really really dead", and finally the deceased as "really really
and finally dead".
The US occupation dreams in Iraq must now be really really and finally dead.
Where's Billmon?
Posted by: pb | September 10, 2004 02:52 PM
where is billmon? away for a month now. would appreciate if someone would update his
status indicating is healthy. we need all the help in the next 45-50 odd days, and his
perspective is fairly good.
Posted by: harry xing | September 16, 2004 05:26 PM
BIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLMMMMMMMMOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNN! Where are
you?
Posted by: | September 21, 2004 06:03 PM
yeah, while I really, really miss billmon's blog, I'd just like to know whether or not he's
A-ok or not....
Posted by: patrick | September 22, 2004 10:32 AM
Yes, does anyone know if Billmon is okay, and if he is, does he plan to return? Has anyone
heard from him, been in touch with him? An update post would be great -- I still check his
blog a couple times a week and miss his writing.
Posted by: Anita | September 25, 2004 11:07 PM
It appears that he's still alive, but has decided to stop blogging for the indeterminate future.
He, or someone using his name, has a September 26 article about the commercialization of
blogging posted at the Los Angeles Times website. He talks about his own blog, in passing.
Posted by: Geoduck | September 26, 2004 05:06 PM
@Geoduck:
And it was a very good piece of writing there.
Imagine: The ABC,NBC,CBS,CNN, etc. of blogging.
Would make any self-respecting denizen of the blogosphere want to puke.
Posted by: FlashHarry | September 26, 2004 08:18 PM
Mute the Bartender may be, but he just posted a very eloquent image at The Whiskey
Bar....
so billmon set sail for the LA Times...
Posted by: ByteB | September 26, 2004 09:46 PM
Interesting thesis....not sure I agree with the curmudgeon though.
Hell, this is no 'A' list joint and the folks here are doing just fine as they furiously do their
best to dig their way out from under the trivia dungpile.
I think perhaps Billmon is mourning the passing of his, the first line, generation of the
blogosphere while the second (or maybe even third) is already out there giving as good as it
gets.
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« Paraskevidekatriaphobics | Main | Gods and Daemons »
Moon of Alabama: Paraskevidekatriaphobics
And
must
have
whiskey
Oh, you
know
why
« Billmon: Saddam Lite | Main | Billmon: All at Sea »
August 13, 2004
Paraskevidekatriaphobics
yuck - itÂ´s Friday, 13th - Open Thread ...
Comments
13
Robert Feldman: Geology, Statistics, and Economics -- What Are Markets Saying About
Oil? Part I, Part II
the world oil market has entered the Crisis phase of a CRIC cycle -- the cycle
of Crisis, Response, Improvement, and Complacency that characterizes the
interaction of structural reform and economic performance. In a nutshell, the
oil market is giving the world a swift kick in the pants, in order to stimulate
exploration, substitution, and -- the only long-term solution -- innovation.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/paraskevidekatr.html (1 von 15) [16.11.2004 18:47:27]
LARRY KING Interview with Bush: Transcript
G. BUSH: When I travel the country, and I've been traveling a lot, there are thousands of
people who come out and wave, and they are -- you know, they respect the presidency.
Sometimes they like the president, but I have this -- I don't have a sense that there's a lot
of anger.
...
KING: What did you think of the [9/11] report?
G. BUSH: I thought it was a great report. I read it.
Friday 13th - unlucky for some
Explosion at BP US oil refinery
Bombing Fallujah
among other things....salt and garlic, use lots today.
Posted by: anna mist | August 13, 2004 12:42 PM
"Guess who's not coming to dinner..."
Julia Child dies
On November 3, 2003, the United States was among 190 of 191 UN General Assembly
members to co-sponsor and adopt a Greek-submitted resolution entitled "Building a
Peaceful and Better World Through Sport and the Olympic Ideals," the key component of
which was the truce.
The resolution "urges the member states to observe, within the framework of the Charter of
the United Nations, the Olympic Truce, individually and collectively, during the Games of
the XXVIII Olympiad to be held in Athens, Greece, from 13 to 29 August 2004."
Perhaps ironically, the US ambassador to the United Nations at the time was John
Negroponte who is now Washington's top diplomat in Iraq, the lone UN member not to
sign up to the truce because it was then under a US-led occupation government and not
represented at the world body.
Anyone think like me in that Kofi Annan is a waste of space?
Come on Bernhard, we need an Olympic Thread. Blair is in the favourite's position of
being the most insincere, lying, murdering bastard ever to lead the Labour Party.
The U.S. trade deficit soared to a record $55.8 billion in June, the government
reported, coming in far wider than economists had expected as climbing oil
prices led to a record level of imports.
Trade gap soars to record
If July hits $60 billion the US$ will tank.
Speaking of the Olympics...do you suppose Americans are going to be booed
indefatigably?
And on the podiums, when the anthems are played, will we be hearing:
Oh_say_can_you_boo rocketing over the top of Oh_say_can_you_see?
If so...
Will we have to see yet more editorials in the papers on "Why do they boo us?"
[Suggestion to editors: recycle the ones titled: "Why do they hate us?"]
My own prediction: American athletes will not be made excessive scapegoats... save for a
few rogue instances here and there.
Posted by: koreyel (anti-triskaidekaphobist) | August 13, 2004 01:35 PM
I watch the show on the BBC. Michael Johnson is the guest for BBC, a great athlete and an
American.
As for the Boos, Greece is probably the most anti-American country in the EU. Let's wait
and see.
What, Greece, the birth place of democracy?
Why would they boo the contemporary standard bearers of their sacred child?
Judith effing Miller is back!
"....Oil industry experts told Security Council members and Secretary General Kofi
Annan's staff that Iraq was demanding under-the-table payoffs from its oil buyers...."
Now, I don't wanna be an apologist for Mr. Annan but, holy crap, how the hell can Bill
Keller possibly let Ms. Miller run with unnamed sources once again?
Is it possible that Keller is actually a NewsCorp mole whose mission is to take down the
NYT for good?
Watching the procession of countries, the Greek Alphabet did my head in.
Go Greece, have a great Olympic games. But I worry about the terra threat and manipulated
terror attacks.
Some Poles in a bit of a fix
Hello everyone. On CounterPunch there is an article by Stan Goff "There He Go's Again:
Kerry's Energy Plan" He go's through a series of old theories about the creation of societies,
Malthus, energy use, blah, blah, blah. He fails to say that population in developed countries
is actually dropping. Russia, and Europe continue to loose population of native population
due lack of child bearing. Only through immigration are western countries keeping even,
including the US.
China is worried that not enough females are being born and are incentivising female
births. While Goff has many valid points, his premises don't apply thinking out of the box
to problems we face. We are a technology driven society and technology can improve ways
of making energy, and the lives of people. Will capitalism solve the energy needs of the
future? Goof says no, and I must agree. Government will have to be at the forefront of
cutting edge technologies, and currently no-one in public office has the will to spend the
money needed. It's easier the pillage other countries in the short run. What I don't agree
with Goff is that capitalism doesn't have a place. Capitalism, as always, will take the
creation of government and be able to mass produce it for the masses driving down cost of
any cutting edge technology.
I'd provide a link, but I'm not that swift.
Juannie: What, Greece, the birth place of democracy?
My current read is Will/Ariel Durant's slim little gem of a book: The Lessons of History.
It is one of those books that is so rich in ideas it leaves you feeling poor.
What I mean by that is: there has been two dozen moments where they have addressed
issues near and dear to my au currant heart.
I've decorated the margins in ah-ha's and filled up index cards with vague scriblings.
Anyhow...
Here is the quote from the book that my mind linked to your comment:
"In his Republic Plato made his mouthpiece, Socrates, condemn the triumphant democracy
of Athens as a chaos of class violence, cultural decandence, and moral degeneration....By
the time of Plato's death (347 BC) his hostile analysis of Athenian democracy was
approaching apparent confirmation by history. Athens recovered wealth, but this was now
commercial rather than landed wealth: industrialists, merchants, and bankers were at the
top of the reshuffled heap. The change produced a feverish struggle for money, a pleonexia,
as the Greeks called it--and apetite for more and more. The nouveaux riches (neoplutoi)
built gaudy mansions, bedecked their woman with costly robes and jewelry, spoiled them
with dozens of servants, rivaled one another in the feasts with which they regaled their
guests. The gap between the rich and the poor widened; Athens was divided, as Plato put it,
into "two cities: ... one the city of the poor, the other the city of the rich, the one at war with
the other."
And so it goes on and on....
One of those slim little tomes that makes one feel terminally unread.
Well...
At any rate...
We have much to learn...err...
I mean...
Relearn.
Which is all to say... I've been humbled and re-humbled by this book.
Boo!
We are being played like a violin, The two Muslim men, who were nabbed following an
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) raid on a mosque in Albany, New York, showed no
interest in buying a shoulder-fired missile...it was all made up...
Hows that for a friday 13th?
@Uncle:
Good News.Better than the freaking alternative.
Posted by: FLASHHARRY | August 13, 2004 09:53 PM
@ Uncle and FH,
Ya, and don't forget the lawyer in Portland....
Why should we believe anything these people say, ever?
koreyel
Amazing
I had just finished reading Chapter II â€œAristotleâ€• before coming over to my laptop and
reading your post:
...and a few months leaving Athens (322 B.C.) The lonely Aristotle died.
In the same year, and at the same age, sixty-two, Demosthenes, greatest of Alexanderâ€™s
enemies, drank poison. Within twelve months Greece had lost her greatest ruler, her
greatest orator, and her greatest philosopher. The glory that had been Greece faded now in
the dawn of the Roman sun; and the grandeur that was Rome was the pomp of power
rather than the light of thought. Then that grandeur too decayed, that little light went
almost out. For a thousand years darkness brooded over the face of Europe. All the world
awaited the resurrection of philosophy.
History repeating itself?
The Greeks might not be so keen on their ideological stepchild for a few reasons, not least
of them US support for the brutally repressive dictatorship under which the Greeks
suffocated for a decade or more...
Greece
During one of the perennial disputes between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus,
which was now spilling over onto NATO, President Johnson summoned the
Greek ambassador to tell him of Washington's "solution". The ambassador
protested that it would be unacceptable to the Greek parliament and contrary
to the Greek constitution. "Then listen to me, Mr. Ambassador," said the
President of the United States, "fuck your Parliament and your Constitution.
America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the
elephant, they may just get whacked by the elephant's trunk, whacked good....
We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your
Prime Minister gives me talk about Democracy, Parliament and Constitutions,
he, his Parliament and his Constitution may not last very long."
I mean, that should make them feel all warm and fuzzy about the US forever after, no?
Cyprus? - Ah a sovereign state, right?
More Elephants' Trunks
Posted by: fuimana bella | August 14, 2004 03:30 AM
b and jdp, I think Goff is right and you're optimists :-)
crystal balls are dangerous toys, but in 10-15 years we'll see who was closer to the mark.
@fuimana bella
connect the dots
@CP There is no end to this crap, is there?
Also relevant: UKUSA=Echelon, and then there's this quote:
Cyprus has been a major launching pad for most of the past half century's
US-British military interventions into the Arab world. In the 1950s, US
military involvement in Lebanon and Jordan was initiated from the British
bases on the island.
So, basically, this is simply a continuation of policy that has existed for at least half a
century. Should we expect an agressionist government who has been unchallenged (leader
of the free world) in its ability to build out its foreign policies for this long, to feel
threatened by loose alliances of Mujaheddin?
If the Jihadists receive some significant funding and coordination we're really witnessing a
battle of the Titans. In any other case, these interesting times are by design.
Keep peeling off those onion skins...
@et al. Geoff has a decent sense of scale, but why does he have to be so longwinded?
Maybe I've got ADD, someone give me Ritalin, quick!
This was worthwhile though:
It must be a movement that fully recognizes the inextricability of energy use
and social relations, and therefore it must consist of people who are
committed to fundamental social transformation. It must be an insurgent
movement that jealously guards its independence from and maintains a
fundamentally adversarial relationship to the current dominant interests and
institutions of that very system, because its inexorable goal is the obliteration
of that paradigm.
And yet: the enlightned ones are only capable of opening their drawing book and
connecting the dots, while the great majority takes solace in another sip of the Kool-Aid.
Am I being too harsh?
I just watched Bill Moyers address to the Inequality Conference at NYU in June on Link
TV. He is exactly right that there is a blatant assault on the middle and lower classes by
government, the rich and corporations. This has been taking place since the early 1970s and
continues today.
I am pulling my money from the stock market, and, anyone with any since, unless you are a
very suffisticated investor, should pull their money from stocks and mutual funds and go to
interest bearing instruments. That giant sucking sound you hear is hedge funds sucking the
wealth and hard earned money from 401k plans on a massive scale. Further, when they
suck the money out, they are investing in foriegn markets.
We must start class warfare against the rich and powerfull. Because at the moment they in
class warfare against the middle and lower classes.
The religous right is complicit in this scam because they believe in the law and order
bullshit. So, this allows legislators to legislate further controls on what people do and say.
We need a dramatic backlash against the fundies. They must wake up.
I am completely disheartened by our current situation in the US. The sheeple must wake up.
There a an assualt going on and it isn't the terrorist that are the ones pursuing this war.
There is a little girl, Raghda, from northern Iraq, now living in Baghdad, who will be
thirteen years old tomorrow, August 15th. She has a blog where she posts a few of her
thoughts â€“ remember she is only 13 so it is not a source of political information â€“ and
pictures of her greatest love, cats. In her own little way she is trying to reach out to the
world and she loves getting â€˜visitorsâ€™. If anyone has the time to drop in on an Iraqi
girl to wish her well and a happy birthday it would be one tiny bridge across the worldâ€¦.
Raghda - Baghdad Girl
@ Nemo..
Thanks for the Raghda link.
Visiting her site was the best thing I've done all week!
@RossK, seconded.
@jdp
I am pulling my money from the stock market, and, anyone with any since, unless you are a
very suffisticated investor, should pull their money from stocks and mutual funds and go to
interest bearing instruments.
The stock market will go lower. We are now in phase two of a secular bear market. After
the top of the bubble that ended 2000, a bear market started and went down until October
2002, where a "Secondary Reaction" liftet the market until the beginning of this year. Now
comes phase two of the bear market and the Dow will loose some 50% in real value over
the next 3-5 years (which means probably 30% loosing in points and 20% through
inflation). Thereby the market is following classic patterns as analysed through Dow
Theorie by Robert Rhea around 1930. If one still wants to invest in the stock market use
funds that are carrying high dividends: utilities, oil and water companies only.
If you move your money to interest bearing instruments you have to protect yourself from
inflation. One could do his by buying US TIPS by buying foreign bonds, if possible from
countries with many commodities. The Dollar will go down and in world scale you will
loose money in nearly any US investment (Buffet agrees with this).
You could buy funds that have strategies that protect/win in bear markets (like Prudent
Bear Fund) if your 401(k) supports these, you should be fine with them.
That giant sucking sound you hear is hedge funds sucking ...
Most hedge funds did loose in value this year and I donÂ´t undertsand why you think the
hedge funds are the problem for the market. There was a big bubble and so far it didnÂ´t
loose enough air, but it will hedge funds or not. The US in general did overconsume the last
10 to 15 years and will have to underconsume for some years to get back on a sustainable
path.
In other points I agree with you.
Nemo,
Your link to Raghda touched me. It's wonderful to see past all the shit and into some real
lives occaisonally.
I will definately wish her a Happy Birthday tomorrow.
Thanks for another blessing but of a different flavor.
I do like and admire Goff but approached this piece warily (thanks for the reference)
thinking it might not be a topic for him.
I agree with Goff that Kerry is as full of shit as a Christmas turkey on energy. But energy is
not a separate issue: Kerry's energy policy is an addend, a brief appendix, to his Iraq policy.
Knowing the one, it is easy to imagine the other -- so easy that it is hardly worth reading
Kerry's green-grovelling spiel on energy.
Goff's pessimism is in a large part based on 'empirical' facts that derive from Malthusian Marxist viewpoints and Physical Science laws (he manages to meld these nicely) - e.g.
carrying capacity, the fact that you can't fly an airplane with coal, etc. In this way, he falls
into the trap he himself describes, and neglects Gould, for example. His description, or if
one likes, interpretation, of the present world situation (iraq invasion, etc.) rests on a social
epistemology that is neo - Darwinian, and can thus be seen as correct as that is presumably
the short-sighted and narrow underlying view that is held by the powerful actors (Bush,
Putin..) who shape world events, pulling the sheep along.
So Goff describes accurately, but does not analyse, and like all of us, cannot take the topic
of system change on board, as jdp said as well. Cornucopians, technotopians, zero
growthers and conservationists (even radical ones like Goff who believe in the
thermodynamic cliff as he calls it) are all alike at heart, and quarrel within a certain frame.
As for capitalism, one can make some kind of relation between it and the sorry mess we are
in now, as Goff does, but besides that, I think the contribution -positive or negative- of
capitalism is overrated, and not really worthy of more than a brief mention in such a
discussion. The USSR was a 'developmental' (Goff's word) society and utterly rapacious,
and managed fantastic industrial growth in a very short span of time - it was not capitalistic.
It is so, of course, that anti-socialism (or -communism) as embodied by 'capitalism', the
'free market', and increasingly 'democracy' serve as code-words to designate the
ideologically correct, that is, the fit (the agressors and therefore survivors) amongst the
unfit.
But outside the box (see jdp) capitalism does not in itself provide any answers, tools or
methods. Nor does it block them, should such arise.
A soft landing is a possibility. (Taking it that possibilities are hypothetical!) What I would
like to see is a complete plan for that soft landing, a thorough elaboration of the best-case
scenario. The result would surely be awfully surprising.
Bit of a ramble...Wishful thinking, really: I want that plan!
Goff: Link
@Blackie
Thanks for the Goff link, will take awhile to digest this , but agree that Kerry (&GWB
(hopeless) needs to lay out some comprehensive overall direction for energy/enviroment
policy.
Posted by: anna mist | August 14, 2004 02:53 PM
"Damn it all Rove! Can't you get anything right?"
Rival militias clash in Afghanistan
I have fished for bass at night in its once beautiful rivers, and I have played stink finger
with its young Southern girls who wear no panties on August nights by the light of its many
moons. I have grown what can almost be called old now, with its earth beneath my feet and
its legends in my eyes. And now a bunch of cheap murderous cocksuckers have hijacked
the place that made me what I am and are busily turning it into one vast capitalist gulag.
Stealing my children's' dreamsâ€¦ everything I ever experienced and cared about has
become irrelevant. I don't care about my own experiences disappearing into the void so
much as I care about the blackness now descending. I am here right now to tell you that
America is a rogue nation and the greatest threat afoot to civilization. That doesn't mean
that every American is Hitler and it doesn't mean that there is no hope. But we gotta cop to
what is going on. When a nation refuses to acknowledge the need for world tribunals for
ethnic cleansing and refutes the Kyoto agreements, and murders tens of thousands to keep
its stock market afloat, then that nation must be called malignant upon this earth. An
Interview with Joe Bageant
Arnold Schwarzenegger sets sights on a little Oval Office intern action
Schwarzenegger - debate letting foreign-born serve as president
It can only get worse Uncle $cam...
b,
Hedge funds are the problem. My broker is from Smith Barney and I specifically asked him
what hedge funds are doing. And, they are doing just as I said. Many of the more successful
hedge funds, have a Million dollar minimum to invest.
What you fail to understand or maybe you do, is that millions of americans are investing in
401k every paycheck. The market has been flat for four years. Where is that money going?
Fat cats with large investment portfolios and inside info are stealing from mom and pop.
The average 401k invester has been told they to can be a winner in the high stakes game of
playing stocks.
My stock portfolio has been flat for four years and I have gold standard stocks, stocks
everyone is told to have. You tell me why these stocks aren't jumping.
The problem is everytime the sheeple start getting ahead, the oligarchs steal their short off.
In the meantime, pensions have been taken away. Man, don't you get it? Joe sixpack is
being suckered. It's like the Enron people who had their pensions taken out from under
them, only on a more massive scale.
We need wealth re-distribution bad.
Hey jdp et al.,
Maybe a hedge primer/discussion post/thread on the the annex is in order?
If you need author privileges just ask Oakie, his address is there on the bottom of the
sidebar and he'll give 'em to ya....
____
@U$ (Gary Bonds)
Thanks for Bageant int'view got my blood pumping, feels good....
Ah Bageant. Thank you, Uncle...
This:
AP: When do you think the slide towards a fascist totalitarian state started?
Bageant: Immediately after World War II, when that much-deified dickhead druggist
Harry Truman set in stone the intelligence and military industrial complex that had
been established during the war.
(italics are mine)
How very excellent to find people who see.
@Kate Storm:
Truman was a haberdasher. and a Pendergast Machine cog.
And Bageant is just another one of those crazy-assed Southerners.
And Uncle probably scared NEMO to death with all of this.
And I've got to go nappy.
Posted by: Eric | August 14, 2004 11:16 PM
Nemo,
Thanks for the tip about the Iraqi girl's 13th birthday. I sent her a b'day greetings email.
b and jdp,
You are depressing me. I only wish my stocks had been flat for the past 3-4 years. I've lost
about 60% of my retirement, and will be working til the day I die! My broker tells me to
stay in the market. I have no idea what to do.
Uncle Scam,
Great interview with this Joe Bageant. Do you know where we can read his stuff on the
net?
Does anybody know if the smear campaign against Kerry's military record is having a
negative effect on voters?
Posted by: Sassybelle | August 14, 2004 11:41 PM
And Uncle probably scared NEMO to death with all of this.
Gosh, I hope I didn't...lol
While, I haven't been a southerner for almost 12 years I did grow up there, and southerners
do have a way of handing you a nice refreshing tall glass of Iced tea on a hot day...along
with your ass...lol
For those that enjoyed JB...
more Joe Bageant served hot!
Opps, lets try that again, shall we :
more Joe Bageant served hot!
Two More Essays From Joe Bageant (pdf's) served hot! And believe me these are worth
reading...
grrrr sorry folks here: Two More Essays From Joe Bageant (pdf's) served hot!
Even with a preview button...geez...lol
Sorry to be such a pain folks, you'd think with a preview button and everything one
wouldn't do such things, Guess that what happens after three or four shots of rum and a few
bong hits...lol
Anyway, to get your appetite wet:
The Dominion Of The Leash
Lynndie England never had a chance. Abu Ghraib, or maybe something even worse (an
RPG up the shorts, for instance) was always her destiny. Nearly half of the 800 Americans
killed in Iraq to date came from small towns like hers, like mine. Forty-six percent of the
American dead in Iraq came from towns of less than 40,000. Yet these towns make up only
25% of our population. Most of the young soldiers were fleeing economically depressed
places, or dead end jobs like Lynndie had at the chicken processing plant.These so-called
volunteers are part of this nationâ€™s de facto draft â€“ economic conscription. Money is
always the best whip to use on the laboring clasess. Thirteen hundred a month, a signing
bonus and free room and board sure beats the hell out of yanking guts through a
chickenâ€™s ass. And there are those big bucks for college later. Up to $65,000. Lynndie
was supposedly going to college after her enlistment to become a â€œstorm chaser,â€• like
in the Helen Hunt movie â€œTwister.â€•
and
Son Of A Laboring God
My home town is one of those slowly rotting East Coast burgs that makes passers-through
think to themselves: â€œWhat the hell is this? Mayberry USA on crack?â€• The townâ€™s
250-year old core is a blighted clot of ramshackle houses carved into apartments and
cheesy businesses. Its outer rim is the typical ugly gash of commercial hell, a assortment of
mindlessly jammed-together tire dealers, grim asphalt, slurp and burps, and car dealerships
of the type that make the U.S. one of the ugliest nations on earth. A sign in the median strip
of this gash proclaims Winchester an official â€œAll-American Town.â€•To its credit
however, the town does have that special kind of seediness found only in the U.S. South. It
might even be considered weirdly colorful in an America studies sort of way, with its
hard-faced characters straight out of Grapes of Wrath and spooky and well-scrubbed Bible
thumpers. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder, our local Chamber of Commerce calls it
â€œHistoric Winchester, Virginia.â€•But many of us who grew up here call it Dickville; if
you were born and raised here you were probably dicked from the beginning. Faced with
life in such a town, there is only one solution. Beer.
Both of the above can be found at:
Coldtype (Writing worth reading from around the world) If you know anything about Joe
Bageant: he is no sellout, and tells it like he sees it; he is the proverbial escentric and
doesn't care what anybody thinks, I think he is a modern day Mark Twain myself... ;-)
" I don't mind being called an escapist on a planet that is looking more and more like a
Black Iron Prison"- Robet Anton Wilson
Damn $cam,
You $et up the jackpot for u$.
Here'$ to Joe & Mark & Robert Anton & of cour$e, Uncle $ him$elf.
Bong, bong, bong!
Thanks Scam for intoducin' me to Joe.
Here some information about the number 13. Western Kabala includes a system called
Gematria. In this system Hebrew words are added up according to the numerical values of
their letters, however not all Hebrew words are used. The Hebrew words that add up to 13
are Achad, unity and Ahevah, love. These words are also connected to the Tarot card
number 13 called Death. This card implies transformation and any transformation is a form
of death. Change is an aspect that is scary to most people and many try to avoid it.
Fascinating, as someone (I don't remember who) said: 'the only thing in life that always
stays the same is that everything always changes'. The idea of this card is that the outcome
of transformation finally adds up to love and unity. A concept also known in Yoga. So the
number 13 could actually be also considered a lucky number.
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« Billmon: Saddam Lite | Main | Billmon: All at Sea »
Moon of Alabama: Billmon: Saddam Lite
And
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« Billmon: The Death Candidate | Main | Paraskevidekatriaphobics »
August 13, 2004
Billmon: Saddam Lite
Billmon on a CIA asset.
Comments
OH yes - let's not forget another CIA asset - Viet Nam's Ngo Dinh Diem. The 1954 Geneva
Peace accord called for elections in 1956 and unification of the divided country. With
American support, Ngo cancelled the elections, knowing full well that Ho Chi Minh would
have easily won the presidency. We used Ngo to delay the election of 1956 until? Oh yes,
until it didn't matter. He was murdered in November 1963.
We all know how well that Viet Nam adventure turned out. In case you cannot remember,
visit the Wall in Washington and count 'em.
I would advise Allawi to take out some insurance - NOW! Because his time will soon be
over. Let's hope Allawi never has to make a call like this one:
http://vietnam.vassar.edu/~vietnam/doc8.html
Negroponte would protect him? Wouldn't he?
BUSH: We've got a great leader in Prime Minister Allawi. He's a tough guy who believes
in free societies. ... And more and more Iraqis are stepping up to do the hard work of
bringing these terrorists, these former Baathist and some foreign fighters to justice.
Transcript
Allawi was an active supporter of the Iraqi Ba'ath Party in its early days when it was still
banned. In 1971 he moved to London in order to continue his medical education. Some
have reported this as an exile, but some of Allawi's old counterparts have claimed that he
continued to serve the Baath Party, and the Iraqi secret police, searching out enemies of the
regime. During this time he was president of the Iraqi Student Union in Europe. Seymour
Hersh quotes former CIA officer Vincent Cannistraro: "[...] Allawi has blood on his hands
from his days in London [...] he was a paid Mukhabarat agent for the Iraqis, and he was
involved in dirty stuff." A Middle Eastern diplomat confirmed that Allawi was involved
with a Mukhabarat "hit team" that killed Baath Party dissenters in Europe. However, he
resigned from the Baath party for undisclosed reasons in 1975 Iyad Allawi
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/billmon_saddam_.html (1 von 3) [16.11.2004 18:47:30]
This whole thing feels like the last hurrah of the pro-occupation guys in Baghdad and the
U.S.
If they don't have the political capital to rout Al-Sadr and a bunch of guys with Ak-47's ,
then the dreams of a pro-west Iraq are over.
Which is a good thing.
Posted by: big bay | August 13, 2004 12:55 PM
@big bay
When you see the photos that Nemo posts here of Iraqi Police supporting Sadr, you know
that it's fubar for Blair and Bush.
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Moon of Alabama: Billmon: The Death Candidate
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« Relativ Pain | Main | Billmon: Saddam Lite »
August 12, 2004
Billmon: The Death Candidate
The barkeeper on one good reason to vote Bush.
Comments
I'm in winding up mode at the moment but Billmon could have done far better in this post.
Meanwhile no fucking news from Najaf.
Goodnight all
Let's just bomb the fucking ragheads
Billmon says:
Further, the more someone thought about Sept. 11 or their own mortality, the more prone
they were to support President Bush [Billmonâ€™s Bold]
One of our aMERICAN dilemmas today, is our lack of mindful and psychological
connection with birth & death.
Therefore it becomes relatively simple for the hedonic engineers (PR professionals) to prey
on our deficient psyches.
The species wide electronic/neurological communication happening now (e.g. this blog)
portends a more cooperative/interdependent future for we all.
Not just American - also Europe. Not accepting death anymore is the most severe long term
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/billmon_the_dea.html (1 von 7) [16.11.2004 18:47:36]
problem for the western world today. Look in depth at health care economics and you will
find that some 40% is spend on prolonging life where it is senseless, while at the same time
other people suffer and die much too early because of lack of resources.
Nobody likes to touch this discussions and while you are running for office (my best wishes
Juannie!) you better never mention this.
Religion tries and should/could answer the question on death and provide a calming picture
of the consequences. Todays ironie is that the most "religious" party is delivering the least
answers to the ultimate question.
I'm not sure about our "lack of mindful and psychological connection with life and death"
(which is probably true); I'm just totally disturbed about the mentality of the American
public--at least most of it, so it seems. I no longer feel there is a place for me in this
country, which makes me sad.
Posted by: beck | August 12, 2004 07:19 PM
FunnyMark is a colleague of mine- we were both teaching assistants for Research Methods in
Spring '03. I saw this research all over the Psychology news the last couple of weeks, but
didn't see where Billmon came across it. Good for Mark for making the blogosphere... and
another account of his work in the lovely student paper.
There are certainly some caveats that go along with this research, but more than that, I'd say
it's important to understand Becker's Terror Management Theory, which this research is
aimed at supporting. The basic premise, as I understand it, is that all human behavior can be
seen as a means of avoiding the catatonic state of pure terror that the awareness of our
inevitable mortality would otherwise cause.
Which I was always thought was pretty indefeasible and thus nonscientific. But then, I'm
not a social psychologist- cognitive, rather. And it sure goes a long way towards explaining
religiosity, as far as I'm concerned.
And, apparently, Shrub-lovin.
Posted by: Ã¦ | August 12, 2004 07:39 PM
Oh, b, not for prolonging life, that is not proven, afaik. In Switzerland, for example, 40 %
of the health costs over a persons life-time are spent in the last year of their life. It is
entirely unclear whether the medical procedures implemented on them at that time prolong
their life or shorten it. Naturally, the short time span involved makes it very hard to resolve
the question. On the one hand, they may be dying because they fall into the hands of the
butchers; or they may be ill and be helped somewhat - as much as possible - giving them a
reprieve of some months, usually in hospital.
Off the cuff. It is complicated...
ah-ha! so this explains the dreadful new W ad running nonstop on tv at least here where W
sits next to a very old looking Laura and talks about how hard it must have been for parents
on 9/11 to chose which child to pick up first from school - it's the most scaremongering bit
I've seen yet.
@ Siun...
Yup, couldn't help but notice the new and improved school-marm Laura anti-Jenna image...
Isn't this the way Atwater went with Battlin'Barb when Carville put Hilary front and center
first time around?
@ ae
Thanks for the insight. Always interesting how far-off the mark most of the quisling
shallow-end media is when you hear from somebody who actually knows something about
the subject under consideration.
@CP
The last thing I wanna be for anybody is an apologist for anybody, including folks I
respect, but geez, don't forget Billmon is actually on holidays....
Come om people. Lets just say what we want to say. As long as you keep the dum ass
sheeple scared half to death they'll fall into line and vote for the stupid ass (Bushie) even
though they should know better. As long as Bushie can scare the crap out of sheeple, cut
down Kerry here and there, the dum asses will fall for it. Oh those poor people. How could
they watch this happen? Oh sweetheart, "I feel your pain." Sorry, that was another prez
As far as mortality goes, this was started with the god kings. In their great wisdom, they
said to themselves, "is this all there is?" There must be something beyond this life. It can't
end. I'm a god. Puff, the priest were born and immortality created. But, I must say, the
truest statement in the Bible is, dust you are and to dust you will return, or something like
that.
On the other post, Bernard is talking of shorting the market. Hedge funds are killing the
market and stealing everyones hard earned money.
@RossK
Yeah, my apologies to Billmon, I was tired and emotional. But when I see that chimp
smiling and hear his rhetoric I boil over.
The opposite of sexor, another reason why Bush might find it useful to scare the shit out of people and run as
the grim reaper...
Over in GD at DU, Will Pitt is saying (based on an email he received) that the Pentagon is
investigating the abuse of women and children at more than one prison in Iraq (airport and
Abu G.)
Email info says that girls were dragged to showers by drunken guards/MI and were raped.
Kids were, as Hersh reported, used as leverage, and were kept "off the record," which is
also in the ICRC complaints.
With recent history as precedent, there will no doubt be some major distractions coming
from the white house as this story starts to hit the newspapers. (and as an aside, the WaPo is
talking terror in Aug/Sept, not Oct, while the AP is saying that the info for the end of July
Ridge psyop was not based upon any new information...scouting financial centers is info
that has been known by the Bush junta since this spring.)
...also, according to the email Will relates, soldiers who have been coming back to the U.S.
have been talking to reporters about the abuse, and the information most likely will not
come from the big national papers.
***
One of great illustration to support this is an American mother of the solder (killed later) in
F 9/11. She had no any connection with reality of the death even having her daughter in
USA Army first and then her son later. Till the moment she found out about sonâ€™s death
she actually cheered ohh so convenient opportunity for her children to join USA Army. I
also remember in the beginning of Balkan wars how many Serbs and others too incredibly
felt about war as a football match. Like they all are immortal.
-----------Quote:
But, I must say, the truest statement in the Bible is, dust you are and to dust you will return,
or something like that.
***
Of courseâ€¦dust of the Universeâ€¦but we still look for the meaningâ€¦of this dustâ€¦If
anything I donâ€™t believe in accidents and I donâ€™t see how accidentally Universe (or
what ever you name it) could exist in macro and micro sense being so perfect. I am more
worrying about human imperfection and our inability to understand (find meaning) of birth
and death. And in between. Some crooks just exploit this inability of people to make (grab)
more of what they stupidly believe is a purpose of living (money, power etc.). Itâ€™s sad.
Honestly when I hear news how genetic engineering is going to make people live 500 years
or for ever I canâ€™t but ask my self â€œ Who would like to live that long?â€•. Itâ€™s
sickening. I canâ€™t remember exact words or who is author but Iâ€™ll never forget this
as long as I live. Itâ€™ goes something like this: â€œWho would with clear mind and
palpable intellect who managed to live LONG ENOUGH ever wish to go through this
journey (life) all over again under ANY circumstances not to mention same
circumstances?â€• I keep asking my self this all the timeâ€¦
But it takes intellect and life long enough to come to this thinking I supposeâ€¦
Becker's Terror Management theorem sounds good to me (hadn't heard of it before, thanks
for the educational hint). I've often said that our species' remarkable capacity for denial and
self-delusion has something to do with our need to deny, every day, our horribly developed
sense of time and futurity (which leaves us staring into the grinning face of our own skull,
so to speak).
We must have become very good at denial to be able to handle our grasp on futurity and
mortality, which (we think) other critters on Earth may not be cursed/blessed with. I mean,
when you think about it too much you get a bad case of the Why Bothers or the Oh Christ
Why Not Just Get It Over Withs. So a daily injection of denial seems to be a survival
characteristic for us.
Unf it is also a non-survival characteristic, when it comes to denying fervently the clear and
present threats to our civilisation, economy, and collective survival...
Yes, DeA, it remains to be understood how people distinguish between real threats which
may lead to some preventative action, fake threats that are intimidation only, and threats
that may have some validity but are repeated so often without any result that people
become bored, numb, innured. (Cry Wolf..) Too complex!
Terrorism fears no longer helping Bush, study finds Chicago Sun-Times, 12.08.04
.... A new study reveals a surprising twist on the conventional wisdom about November's
presidential election: While political pundits seem to agree that news of terrorist threats and
other dangers from abroad is good news for President Bush's re-election bid, the opposite
might be true.
Michigan State University political science professors Darren W. Davis and Brian D. Silver
say their study found that the more worried people are about the possibility of another
terrorist attack, the more likely they are to vote for John Kerry. The research will be
presented at a meeting of political scientists in Chicago next month. ....
Link
Shades of Madrid.
Or: the more aware, the more worried part of the US public (worried about everything,
from the education of children to the price of milk to the happiness of cows to terrorist
attacks..) tend to be progressive rather than conservative, Democrats rather than Repubs - if
the study is correlational only, that is all that can be said.
Going forward, it is possible that the endless empty, false terror threats and the lunatic color
codes, and so on, exist only to keep on board those who support Bush from the get-go. To
maintain that base! If that is so, one can go on to judge that the threats and warnings and
exhortations (etc.) must have, to be effective, some surface validity, carry some expected
public acceptance (as delivered by authority, presented as credible and real) but be at the
same time covertly understood as mythical and unreal.
See also here (description of Time survey): Link
re: our lack of mindful and psychological connection with birth & death.
Advice (Langston Hughes, 1932)
Folks, I'm telling you,
birthing is hard
and dying is mean-so get yourself
a little loving
in between.
the Hughes was from me
Posted by: catlady | August 14, 2004 08:28 PM
this was spam - deleted my moderation
Posted by: Missy | November 4, 2004 10:09 AM
A little frustrated are we, Missy?
Posted by: x | November 4, 2004 10:36 AM
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Moon of Alabama: Relativ Pain
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« Rove Trapped on Phoneline to Najaf | Main | Billmon: The Death Candidate »
August 12, 2004
Relativ Pain
CNNMoney.com currently names a "Second Day of Pain" on its frontpage. They of course
refer to falling stockprices and rising oil. But there was no pain for people who were short
and used the financial instruments available to bet on falling markets (like I did).
But how can one counter the pain that comes up, when one of the most magical cities of
this world gets bombed and destructed in senseless fighting?
Would it help to short an index that reflects the values of:
the library of Al-Haidariyah, the library of Al-Ilmin in At-Tusi's university, the
library of Ash-Shushtariyah Husainiya, the library of Al-Qawam school, the
library of both schools of Al-Khalili Al-Kubra and Sughra, the library of
Shaikh Jafar Al-Kabir, the library of Shaikh Fakhrul Din At-Taraihi, the
library of Ar-Rabitatul Ilmiyah, the library of Abdul Aziz Al-Baghdadi, the
library of Muntada An-Nashr which has been moved to the jurisprudence
college which locates at Kufah street, the Public Library, the library of
Al-Burujirdi, the library of university of Najaf, the library of Shaikh
Mohammed Baqir Al-Isfahani, the library of Al-Aakhund, the library of
Ar-Rahim, the library of Bahrul Ulum, Sayyid Al-Hakim's library, the library
of Amirul Mu'minin (Commander of Faithful) (peace be upon him), the library
of Al-Ya'aqubi, the library of An-Nuri, the library of Al-Balaaqhi, the library
of Al-Khutaba'a, the library of Al-Malali (which is related to Aal Al-Millah),
the library of Shaikh Aaqa Buzurg At-Tehrani,
and many other libraries in Najaf city?
It doesnÂ´t feel likely to me today.
Comments
More of the uncounted costs of this unnecessary war.
Posted by: maxcrat | August 12, 2004 04:22 PM
In the open thread Flashharry pointed to a very thoughtful analysis of the fighting in Najaf:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2004/08/just_relativ.html (1 von 17) [16.11.2004 18:47:48]
Bush gambles as Najaf burns by Michael Schwartz.
The administration of US President George W Bush has embarked on a
desperate military adventure in hopes of creating the appearance of a pacified
Iraq. ...
"Shih Huang Ti, King of Tsin, who lived at the time of the wars of Hannibal...built the
wall, because walls were defenses; he burned the books because his opponents were
invoking them to praise the emperors who had preceded him. Burning books and erecting
fortifications are the usual occupations of princes." J-L. Borges, "The Wall and the Books"
alabama! Good to see you. I have here a book written by a certain Pierre Menard, and it
reminds me of another book whose title and author I forgot. Any idea?
Into the breach
Inside the shrine wounded return from bloody battle
US keeps winning battles, losing wars
War? What war?
223 dead, 500 wounded in clashes across Iraq
nemo
Some break..........have read all the above posts, and most of the other stuff floating around
out there. While this all amounts to a mountain of reason against the Najaf operation,
there's been almost no reasoned arguments for it..... except this from Chris Allbrttion
Back-to-Iraq. The few others I've seen are similar:
"Mobs are terrifying, but theyâ€™re relatively easy to deal with if youâ€™re willing to kill
a lot of people and say the hell with world opinion. The latter is unlikely to be a problem
for Allawi and the Americans, however; world opinion is basically against Moqtada. Oh,
sure, youâ€™ll always have hard-core anti-imperialists who support anyone who stands up
to the United Statesâ€™ presence in Iraq. They will make their calls for real democracy in
Iraq without understanding that Moqtada and his followers donâ€™t want democracy; they
want an Islamic state with Moqtada at the head. And thatâ€™s something that vast majority
of Iraqis emphatically donâ€™t want. If he and his radical followers get slaughtered, I
think the world will believe they brought it on themselves. The Westâ€™s brow will
remain largely unfurrowed and its conscience untroubled.
Al-Sadr may yet produce his own private GÃ¶tterdammerung, but whether it remains a
ripple or turns into a tsunami remains to be seen."
I must say this is uncharacteristic (and disturbing) coming from Chris, but, generally the
argument goes that al-Sadr and his militia dont really have any political currency,
"firebrand" cleric riding on fathers reputation, band of uneducated zealot loosers.All will be
glad to be rid of them, they are basically loosers, and essentially, insignificant.
On the face of it this argument belies itself, If he and his followers are so dis-regarded why
the all the fuss, or any fuss, let alone the destruction of Najaf, the death of hundreds, the
possible defilement of a shrine revered by millions, or the creation of all out insurrection
that could not be defeated.
No, the real argument is that al-Sadr and his movement represent a growing movement
among the Shiia (while anti-Islamist, anti-Iranian, anti- Saddamist) is decidedly
anti-occupation, and anti- American. While al-Sistani is not pro- occupation his history is to
appease the political powers that be, and that position was eroded by al-Sadrs presence in
Najaf. No, the level of risk and the potential of major blowback the current operation
assumes can only mean that al-Sadrs movement represents an equally serious threat to the
long term "interests" of the occupation.
Posted by: anna mist | August 13, 2004 03:49 AM
Personally, I never gave a whit for Bill Clinton until the impeachment trial began.
night moon
Arab Blog
Fleeing Najaf, August 12th
One of Americaâ€™s â€˜enemiesâ€™, Najaf, August 12th
Tears in Najaf as American troops enter, August 12th
A safer world? Najaf residents negotiate their city streets, August 13th
An Iraqi policeman takes part in pro- al-Sadr demonstration, Basra, August 12th
Iraqi police officers join al-Sadr's militia, Basra, August 12th
More Iraqi police join al-Sadr's militia, Basra, August 12th
US continues Fallujah bombing runs - two more Iraqi children killed
Protests erupt in five Iraqi cities over Najaf
Thousands descend on Najaf
...A woman was among six people killed and 20 wounded when US shells hit the Izzat
district on the Tigris River, said the chief of Kut's general hospital on Friday.
"The Americans also hit an Iraqi National Guard post by mistake in the al-Haidariya
neighbourhood, killing one guardsman and wounding 14 others at around 0200 (2200
GMT)..."
US forces bomb Kut
Al-Sadr sets list of conditions for end to Najaf fighting
US Seventh Cavalry retreats in Najaf
The undefeated - this afternoon in Najaf
Nemo, I hope the question is not too naive or outrageous: What do you think about the
current mode of attack of the US army in Najaf? Seems to me that they have been trying to
isolate al-Sadr's fighters and not resorted to blanket bombings of the city (not even in Kut).
I had expected worse news by now, and I have been following the reports you linked to. Is
this due to a silent media or do they show some restraint?
Here's what Salam Pax said about the militia in April: "You have to be careful about what
you say about al-Sadir. Their hands reach every where and you don't want to be on their
shit list. Every body, even the GC is very careful how they formulate their sentences and
how they describe Sadir's Militias. They are thugs, thugs thugs. There you have it."
Is it possible that anything good is going to come out of this battle? As I said before, I very
much appreciate your contributions to the discussion, and I hope this is not out of bounds
for you.
Currently the better cards are in Al Sdar hands - the fact that negotiations are done is
allready a victory. But who knows - maybe Bush just waits until the hurricane hits Florida
and will drown any other news.
This hurricane will bring him 10+ points in the reelection campaign if Rove is not totally
incompetent. Kerry should be in Florida right now if he wants to beat that.
via Juan Cole
Moqtada Al-Sadr's success in acquiring power is more a result of the failure of others to fill
the power vacuum than his own charisma. . . If the only test for legitimacy in Iraq is the
withdrawal of the occupation force, then Moqtada Al-Sadr will be the last viable Shia
leader standing. This is especially true as long as Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani is not very
keen on full engagement with the political process . . . Politically, the government of Allawi
is not gaining any popularity for two main reasons: firstly because of heavy-handed policies
-- curfews and clampdowns have alienated many people without making a significant
difference on the security front. Secondly, the government has not succeeded in
distinguishing itself in any practical way from the regime that was in place before it took
charge . . . They must also realise that calling on the Americans to bomb holy cities on their
behalf is not the way to garner support and cultivate favour ahead of future elections. '
Which raises the question: Have the Americans created Muqtada as a contender by
attacking him since last April?
Allies disappointed by Najaf assault
A very, very significant shift â€“ if the US is losing allies like Bahr al-Uloum the situation
in Iraq is not merely bad but hopeless. There is no way on earth that America can function
in the country if this class of supporter has been alienated to such an extent that he now
sees America as the enemy.
Militiamen threaten to become suicide bombers
Look on the potential of this threat as 'suicide bombings to date multiplied by hundreds,
possibly thousands'.
Mahdi Army surrounds Polish troops
More allies in trouble â€“ how this plays in Poland with the Polish people remains to be
seen.
teuton,
I cannot speak with authority on Muqtada al-Sadr's organization, for the same reasons that I
believe that nobody actually can. It is spread throughout Iraq, has personnel of varying
levels of education and moral rectitude in different areas and during a time of conflict
centralized authority and unity of purpose are luxuries sacrificed to circumstances that shift
by the hour.
Many of the assessments of Muqtada al-Sadr and his people are filtered through class
prejudices and indicate the judgmental outlook of commentators or their social separation
from the people that they are describing. Few of the Iraqis who speak to journalists will
have first hand, up close experience of daily life in Muqtada al-Sadr's natural constituency.
The defections of police officers to the ranks of his fighters should give a clue to the
religious dimension attached to loyalty to the man and to his position. Religious fervor,
whether in angry defence of Najaf and other holy places, or in the patrols of young men in
Basra, Baghdad and elsewhere who reprimand women for not conforming to perceived
Islamic dress codes, threaten alcohol vendors, cinema owners, sellers of 'objectionable'
books, CDs et cetera, is a feature of many of his followers.
This fervor translates into attempts to clean up and 'morally police' neighborhoods under
Mahdi army control, a practice that sometimes elevates the living conditions of residents
and secures them rights and protections and which on other occasions leads to intimidation,
brutality, the abuse of 'street power' and killings.
Taking al-Sadr's positions on the occupation, the rights of 'his' constituency (perhaps
15-20% of the Shi'ite population - remember that the I.R.A. made the Northern Ireland
statelet ungovernable at a time when their 'electoral support' was only running at 10-12%),
the evil of the collaboration of some Iraqis with the American imposed regime along with
his unapologetic nationalism and divorce these views from his religious beliefs and you
still have a figure who is articulating what substantial numbers of people believe and feel.
I would disagree with Salam Pax that al-Sadr's people are 'thugs, thugs, thugs' - as I have
stated, there is frequently a class basis to knee-jerk classifications of a movement made up
of tens of thousands and supported by millions. Doubtless there are many who are no
angels but it is a grave error to write off the movement and its members in so dismissive a
way. Al-Sadr and his lieutenants really do speak for a diverse set of constituencies and who
else would do that for them?
It is not to compare like with like, but in some ways al-Sadr's movement is like a
proto-trade union, articulating demands on behalf of its members, safeguarding rights,
attempting perhaps to convey an ideological message to all the membership and show
people that there is strength in numbers. Al-Sadr is less revolutionary than socially and
religiously conservative, and as we know religious conservatism can be a comfort to many,
not just Iraqis or other Muslims. Again, not comparing like with like, the Black Panthers in
America contained persons of varying levels of politicization and made some valuable
efforts at lobbying on behalf of, educating and even feeding their people. Agents
provocateurs and persons with less vision and more aggression than was good for a social
movement, coupled with the machinations of FBI, ensured that the movement became
branded in the public eye as a violent one, a thing that is neither fair nor accurate.
As for the nature of the American attack - there is, for me, no 'softly softly' approach that
uses aerial bombardment with munitions that can leave a crater 100 meters broad. Certainly
great care is being taken to sensitize the media (those elements that are permitted to cover
the attack, in an embedded status or via US military press releases), to the idea that this
attack constitutes a gentler kind of killing but a dead Iraqi is a dead Iraqi regardless of how
he or she was bombed, shot or otherwise disposed of.
Al-Sadr and his people have their place in Iraq and their voices should be heard. I make no
judgments on what they believe as they will succeed or fail in their ideological goals
according to the responses of the wider Iraqi population. They should not be discounted or
marginalized because of the moralizing, judgmental utterances of people, Iraqi or
otherwise, who deem them to be social inferiors.
As the US military lurches into another two-step controlled by hawks on the one hand and
the plethora of frantic calls doubtlessly coming in from other Arab leaders, religious
spokespersons and wiser counsels on the other I would hope that Najaf will pan out as
another military, moral and diplomatic defeat for the American war party. They deserve
nothing less.
Apologies to all for the length of this posting, but it is not easy to account for al-Sadr and
his people as quickly, and dismissively, as most commentators seem to. Theirs is a lazy
'snapshot' that ignores the actual appeal and popularity of a far more complex phenomenon.
And it is by such misjudgments that American policy seems to be guided, reassessment
only coming when the original, clouded thinking runs up against realities.
Nemo
Wanted to say thanks much for all the recent work you have done on the current Najaf
crisis. Living on an island, without cable, and only elementry computer skill, all the links
are invaluable.
Following up on that great overview above, do you think, if this truce is for real, we might
finally see Iraqis celebrating in the street, as American armor rolls out of town?
The best comment so far on Najaf comes through The Guardian Those they can't co-opt,
they destroy
The US military offensive against Najaf is a dangerous and ill-judged
escalation, revealing the violent reality of an occupation that has undergone
only cosmetic change since the supposed handover of power to an interim
Iraqi administration in June.
For more than a week, an aggressive foreign power has addressed an
essentially domestic political question by means of tanks, helicopter gunships
and F16s.
...
The offensive against Najaf is the most crude and inept action possible, and it
follows a long line of such actions by the occupation forces and their political
leadership.
...
After Najaf, where are US troops going? Are they going to encircle Thawra
(Sadr City), the Baghdad suburb? Are they going to attack every poor suburb
of every city from Kirkuk to Basra? And bomb every town where there have
been large demonstrations in opposition to the attack on Najaf?
This offensive has already dealt a severe blow to the interim government. It
has shown that it is unable to rein in the US presence, and can only fall in line
with America's military imperatives.
...
Some liberals who opposed the war subsequently adopted an argument that the
US and Britain now have a responsibility to remain in Iraq and to see to it that
the country arrives at the safe shores of democracy and stability.
This argument is based on the presumption that, left alone, Iraq would fall into
internecine conflict which only the US and Britain, being such civilised and
civilising nations, could address. This was always a convenient myth, but the
repeated military offensives against Iraqi cities must now make it clear that
chaos and internecine conflict is with us already, and it is being expanded and
prolonged by foreign military forces.
Again the US has lost the battle.Like in Fallujah there never was a chance to win this. Did
anybody in the political or militray leadership did think of the endgame they did want to
achieve? What outcome did they plan for? It looks like they never had a plan. Any violent
outcome - killing Al Sadr, or catching him inside the mosque would start a general
uprising. Any nonviolent outcome only can bolster Al SadrÂ´s standing.
The incompetence of the US leaders can obviously not be overestimated.
Perfect Doublespeak:
Captain Bill Coppernoll said on Saturday the bombing was part of an
operation called Cajun Mousetrap III.
The attack "was conducted to assist in the freedom of movement for Iraqi
citizens and deny the enemy sanctuary in the surrounding area ... initial reports
indicate that approximately 50 anti-Iraqi forces were killed", he said.
So at least 50 additional Iraqis now have achieved freedom of movement for Iraqui
citizens through US graciousness. Next those 40 destroyed homes are the US helping in
reconstructing Iraq and the 84 wounded are to promote the quality of the hospitals.
Goebbels would be proud ...
Many killed in US bombing of Samarra
More people achieved freedom of movement in Baghdad and Hilla.
More to come
Truce talks collapse in Najaf
Nemo, I've only just come back and read your response. Thank you for taking the time to
reply in detail. As in so many other cases, the truth about al-Sadr's militia is probably
neither pure nor simple. The collapse of the negotiations seems to spell more dead in the
coming days. Perhaps there is a way to avoid an escalation, given a minimum of good-will
from all involved.
Two US soldiers die as 40 Iraqis killed in Hilla
Breathtaking hypocrisy...
Rumsfeld says al-Sadr's actions 'unlawful and harmful'
What is that Western saying about pots and kettles again?
U.S. forces kill 50 Iraqis in Samarra, 40 in Hilla, 21 in Baghdad, hundreds injuredâ€¦
Only about five hours of the day left in Iraq now...
@ anna mist
Unfortunately, anna, the armor is poised to roll in again and the bombs are being loaded
onto planes to extend the killing zones. The truce talks were proceding satisfactorily until
Allawi intervened and vetoed agreements his own negotiators had reached. Presumably
American eyes scanned the documents, objected and Allawi did as he was told. Evidently
the 'process' is being driven from behind the scenes by US militarist mindsets.
Some Iraq news in PDF form
BBC now saying the final push against Sadr is starting soon. When will a 500lb bomb ever
be a solution?
The USA should be kicked out of the Olympics.
CP, good idea. What about athletes from all over the world refusing to compete with
US-athletes? Yes, the games are fucking political, and always have been.
BTW: To be sure, I am sorry for the dead in Florida. But they died from a natural desaster.
What about the dead in Iraq that died from a US-made desaster? The US killing hundreds
of civilians in a foreign country? Fuggedaboutit. Sort it under 'peace talks with
unreasonable radicals have failed'.
From Juan Cole:
Muqtada declared that "Najaf has triumphed over imperialism and imperial
hubris" ...
You would think that people would laugh at this situation being called "a
triumph of Najaf." But no one is laughing, and in fact there are pro-Muqtada
demonstrations all over Iraq, including in the hard line Sunni areas (!), and
insurgencies. Indeed, there have been big demonstrations in Iran, Bahrain and
Pakistan as well as in Iraq. ..
Obviously, Allawi and the Americans have Muqtada right where he wants
them.
I agree with the last sentence. What can the US do? Kill Muqtada (he doesnÂ´t care) and
then how to control the following general insurgency? Bomb the cities to rubble? Even if
Muqtada is dead, there will be a new one fairly soon. So the cycle will start again, the US
will attack, but will try not to hit the holy mosque. There will be no result except many
dead people and then negotiations will start again. How can they be so stupid?
@b
"How can they be so stupid?"
Are they? Kerry looks like a milk of magnesia candidate. Bush will Nov by Hook or by
Crook.
Take this excerpt via Xymphora.... Here's Bob Dreyfuss on Kerry's position on Iraq:
"Kerry's failure to articulate a coherent policy on Iraq has now reached the status of a
three-alarm fire. It seems almost unbelievable: On one hand, here's a president who invaded
a sovereign nation illegally, without the support of the United Nations or U.S. allies, lied
about the reasons for the war, failed utterly to find WMD or terrorism ties in Baghdad,
misjudged post-invasion Iraq so badly that it is still engaging in nearly full-scale war
against the people of Iraq, and apparently has no plan at all about what to do.
And yet it's Kerry on the defensive?"
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/
Talking tactics
Experts urge new tactics in Najaf fight
Presumably these 'experts' were not available to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith,
Cambone, Powell, Rice and their administrative and military minions when the drew up
their great plan...
@Nemo
Here's a prize quote from the article you linked.
"There was a belief that, with the end of the Cold War, we wouldn't have to contend with
insurgencies any longer," Hoffman said. "The problem in Iraq is that not only is it an
insurgency we didn't anticipate, we thought the main fighting would be against Saddam
Hussein traditional forces, and once they were vanquished, the country would be pacified.
So we're doubly disadvantaged."
Pardon me, but along with WMD, Saddam didn't have traditional forces.
"...here's a president who invaded a sovereign nation illegally, without the support of the
United Nations or U.S. allies, lied about the reasons for the war, failed utterly to find WMD
or terrorism ties in Baghdad, misjudged post-invasion Iraq so badly that it is still engaging
in nearly full-scale war against the people of Iraq, and apparently has no plan at all about
what to do.
And yet it's Kerry on the defensive?"
I am so bitterly ashamed of my country, and so sorry. I have been handing out voter
registration forms to new neighbors in the pouring rain today and feel so inept.
@beq - so you think Kerry would help the situation - I have my doubts.
I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as President.
So Kerry defended the US when he was in the Navy.
Which war did he fight in? Kerry defended his country in Vietnam. The US was defended
in Vietnam?
Now thats revisionism at its finest. Kerry will defend his country as President. In Iraq, Iran,
Syria, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Canada .....
@b
Take away the Vietnam bullshit from Kerry, and look at the stark realities of how he fares
versus Bush. Fuck it, even I would be ahead in the polls.
Corporate America. Corporate America. Corporate America. Third Reich.
Pain
How New Year's Eve bomb shattered a reporter's detachment
Behind the somewhat egocentric headline is actually the story of shattered Iraqi lives, and
it is interesting to see where the bereaved apportion the blame, and why.
NYT:Talks by Iraq and Rebels Fail Over Demands to Withdraw
Although few details of the talks were offered by Dr. Rubaie the central issue
seemed, once again, to have been the demand that Mr. Sadr disarm his fighters
and withdraw them from the city. Mr. Sadr's aides said they had demanded
that both sides, the American forces and Mr. Sadr's militia force, the Mahdi
Army, withdraw. They said the cleric also wanted pledges by the government
to release scores of Sadr fighters taken captive during the recent fighting, and
to give amnesty to all who had taken part.
The amnesty demand was certain to be rejected by American
commanders, who successfully curbed a broader national amnesty proposal
announced by Dr. Allawi earlier this week, limiting its terms to exclude any
rebels who have taken part in actions wounding or killing American troops.
"So the sovereign Iraqis had a soution, but the US commanders didnÂ´t agree.
(BTW: Do the headline writers of the NYT ever read the articles?)
other tidbits
An Iraqi freelance reporter working for The New York Times said one convoy
of 200 men had arrived in Najaf with food supplies from Falluja..
One of [Al SadrÂ´s] aides, Ali Sumeisim, who took part in the talks, told
reporters that Dr. Rubaie had backtracked on an outline agreement that would
have had both sides pull back from the old city, leaving the shrine under the
control of the aging ayatollahs who form Iraq's Shiite clerical hierarchy...
NYT talks of 3000 US servicemen around Najaf, while Reuters still talks about 2000.
Najaf
Why the Najaf offensive is on hold
Interesting analysis that pre-dates today's collapse, at Allawi's (i.e. America's), behest, of
the negotiations in Najaf.
@CP Fuck it, even I would be ahead in the polls. Yes and you would definitly win, while
Kerry will lose. (This was not satire!)
Some Tinfoil Hats out there
@b, the one person who could have destroyed Bush was Tony Blair. That evil fucker is in
Athens networking for the 2012 games for London. Yeah right, Tony. Your Gay Past cost
Iraqis lots of lives.
@Nemo 3:16 PM
That Time anaylsis is good. The political costs of killing Sadr or damaging the mosque are
too big. But then what are they going to do now? Al Sadr has reinforced and can sit tight in
the mosque. He has probably 1,000 men and is in defense. The US can not use very heavy
weapons and has 3,000 troops around, but only half of them are real infantry (forget the
Iraqi troops). That would set 1,500 offense against 1,000 defense with only little technical
advantage for the offense. Military doctrine says you need at least 3:1 to win an attack.
Additionally the US logistics are very problematic (where are the truck drivers) and there
are clashes in many other cities too.
I bet the military guys said NO! but Washington (Bush? Cheney? Rumsfeld?) intervined.
Wonder what Powell is doing - he should understand the basics.
Way deep in Nemo's linked article (just above me @ 3:10) appears this passage:
-------At first, Raad, Omar's father, wanted to blame Nabil. Now he speaks of God's will. And, he
and the other relatives say, if there is anyone to blame, it's the Americans. This would not
have happened before the Americans came, they say, time and again.
"People went to parties, celebrated, and nothing happened," says Omar's mother, Atiya.
"The situation changed because of the Americans."
By "Americans," I know they don't mean me, but they do mean me. My presence in Iraq is
part of the American occupation, as far as they are concerned. I know they are thinking
that my being at Nabil's contributed to their children's d

Moon of Alabama: August 2004

Transcription

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