Close Close 13th Kosmos Conference 12:12 [Comment From nagia

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13th Kosmos Conference
12:12
12:11
[Comment From nagia sgouritsanagia
sgouritsa: ]
Thnks for all. The organization of the
Conference proved greater than volcanic
disaster. Congratulations!
Wednesday April 28, 2010 12:12 nagia sgouritsa
[Comment From nagia sgouritsanagia sgouritsa: ]
Thnks for all. The organization of the Conference proved greater than volcanic
disaster. Congratulations!
Wednesday April 28, 2010 12:11 nagia sgouritsa
12:11
[Comment From Vassiliki PliatsikaVassiliki Pliatsika: ]
Congratulations to professors Nosch and Laffineur and all the participants. This was
an amazing experience. We'll probably keep looking back to this interactive
beginning in years to come.
Wednesday April 28, 2010 12:11 Vassiliki Pliatsika
12:11
[Comment From Helena TomasHelena Tomas: ]
@Pietro. I am great, although still disappointed that we did not make it to
Copenhagen. I will be in Athens from Sunday until the end of July, let me know if
you pass by.
Wednesday April 28, 2010 12:11 Helena Tomas
12:11
[Comment From Efi TsitsaEfi Tsitsa: ]
Just one word in Greek: ΜΠΡΑΒΟ !!
Wednesday April 28, 2010 12:11 Efi Tsitsa
18:50
pietro militello:
@Tomas (without H). You are right. Feel strange after so many days of web
immersion. How are you? Sorry for not attending your paper, but I had a meeting.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:50 pietro militello
18:49
[Comment From Robert LaffineurRobert Laffineur: ]
Thanks Marie-Louise
Monday April 26, 2010 18:49 Robert Laffineur
18:46
Now that all those 'Aegean voices' from the past few days went silent on this
livestream, the rest of the evening will feel lonely. Thanks for an amazing
experience.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:46 Helena Tomas
18:45
[Comment From Papanthimou Aik-Fappas J.Papanthimou Aik-Fappas J.: ]
Sabine Beckmann. Thank you for your information
Monday April 26, 2010 18:45 Papanthimou Aik-Fappas J.
18:45
18:43
[Comment From Sascha MauelSascha Mauel: ]
Congratulations and thanks to all contributors, participators and especially the
organisers! What an extraordinary and A wonderful experience... (though I missed
much of the presentations due to technical problems). Looking forward to the
publication, and to seeing you another time... somewhere!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:45 Sascha Mauel
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: Excellent Tom! Goodnight from Melbourne.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:43 ashlarblocks
18:43
[Comment From Lena PapazoglouLena Papazoglou: ]
Thank you all for these unique days, we are looking forward to the next conference
Monday April 26, 2010 18:43 Lena Papazoglou
18:43
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Congratulations to the KOSMOS organisers, participants, chatters, and internet
technicians ! Thank you
Monday April 26, 2010 18:43 Sophia Vakirtzi
18:43
18:43
[Comment From Carlos VariasCarlos Varias: ]
Marie-Louise, Robert and all the staff of CTR: Thank you very, very much for
organizin this impressive conference and for your splendid hospitality in
Copenhagen. Many congratulations. Good luck with the edition!!!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:43 Carlos Varias
Yes, bravo sou, Tom
18:42
pietro militello:
Thank you, Marie Louise and Robert, for this unique experience, and thank you all
those friends from Copenhagen (and nearby) for helping those who could not attend
the conference, in presenting theirs papers.
18:42
[Comment From Angelos PapadopoulosAngelos Papadopoulos: ]
Simply amazing and unique, Thank you Prof. Nosch! Thank you Prof. Laffineur.
Well done everybody! See you all in 2012...
Monday April 26, 2010 18:42 Angelos Papadopoulos
18:42
[Comment From Janice CrowleyJanice Crowley: ]
Thank you, Tom. You said it all for us beautifully - and every epithet is true!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:42 Janice Crowley
18:42
[Comment From Bernice JonesBernice Jones: ]
Extraordinary Conference! Congratulations Robert & Marie-Louise!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:42 Bernice Jones
18:42
[Comment From Anaya SarpakiAnaya Sarpaki: ]
Thank you all..and thank you Tom for smiling...and keeping it going...
Monday April 26, 2010 18:42 Anaya Sarpaki
18:42
[Comment From Mary Jane CuylerMary Jane Cuyler: ]
Thank you to the organizers! This was a herculean task - and you performed it
excellently.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:42 Mary Jane Cuyler
18:42
[Comment From Richard FirthRichard Firth: ]
Thank you to all !!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:42 Richard Firth
18:41
Thak you, Tom,
18:41
[Comment From Helene WhittakerHelene Whittaker: ]
Thank you so much to Marie Louise and Robert and to all the speakers for
wonderful papers.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:41 Helene Whittaker
18:41
[Comment From Annette PohlkeAnnette Pohlke: ]
Congratulations and thank you so much to everyone involved.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:41 Annette Pohlke
18:41
[Comment From Cynthia ShelmerdineCynthia Shelmerdine: ]
I add my congratulations to Robert and Marie-Louise. Thank you for a memorable
conference
Monday April 26, 2010 18:41 Cynthia Shelmerdine
18:40
[Comment From malgorzata siennickamalgorzata siennicka: ]
@Marie-Louise, Robert Laffineur and all participants - thank you so much for this
wonderful conference. It was a great experience!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:40 malgorzata siennicka
18:40
[Comment From Katherina AslanidouKatherina Aslanidou: ]
KOSMOS has been a unique and unforgettable experience. Thank you all! I' m
looking forward to seeing you in PHYSIS
Monday April 26, 2010 18:40 Katherina Aslanidou
18:39
[Comment From Eleni DrakakiEleni Drakaki: ]
Thank you to all involved with the conference. It has been a wonderful experience.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:39 Eleni Drakaki
18:38
[Comment From Oliver DickinsonOliver Dickinson: ]
Bravo sou, Tom!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:38 Oliver Dickinson
18:38
[Comment From Sabine BeckmannSabine Beckmann: ]
To all the organizers and helpers: Thanks so much for giving us a great time!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:38 Sabine Beckmann
18:37
Yes it seems actually to be associated with wool. Maybe it means both :)
18:35
[Comment From Luca GirellaLuca Girella: ]
Congratulations to the all organizers, readers, speakers and contributors for this new
experience!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:35 Luca Girella
18:35
@ Mary Jane: And then, again, someone said that is wrong...
18:35
[Comment From Anne ChapinAnne Chapin: ]
Thank so much for putting together this wonderful conference - I look forward to
seeing everyone in 2012!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:35 Anne Chapin
18:35
[Comment From GuestGuest: ]
Congratulations to the all organizers, readers, speakers and contributors for this new
experience!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:35 Guest
18:34
@sabine: it has been suggested that iris in Linear B is wi-ri-za
18:34
@ Cynthia: I know, that is why I asked.
18:32
[Comment From Papanthimou Aik-Fappas J.Papanthimou Aik-Fappas J.: ]
M. Louise, thank you and congratulations for this global Aegean event
Monday April 26, 2010 18:32 Papanthimou Aik-Fappas J.
18:32
[Comment From Marsia BealbyMarsia Bealby: ]
Congratulations to all those who contributed so this conference comes true. It was a
beautiful conference, thank you for giving us the chance to participate online.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:32 Marsia Bealby
18:32
[Comment From Fotis IfantidisFotis Ifantidis: ]
Συγχαρητήρια κα. Παπανθίµου, συγχαρητήρια Γιάννη
Monday April 26, 2010 18:32 Fotis Ifantidis
18:32
[Comment From Stephie NikoloudisStephie Nikoloudis: ]
Congratulations and a huge thank you to organisers, volunteers, paper-writers,
presenters, and participants world-wide for an invigorating four days!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:32 Stephie Nikoloudis
18:32
@ Aikaterini: For anointing you might be interested in my paper in Beckmann
S.|2006|Root, resin, red and ritual purification - The role of terebinth in Eastern
Mediterranean Bronze Age cult.|In: Ertug F. (Ed.). Ethnobotany: at the Junction of
the Continents and the Disciplines. Proceedings of the Fourth International Congress
of Ethnobotany (ICEB 2005). Istanbul, Ege Yayinlari, pp. 387-396.
18:32
@Katerina and Gianni. Great paper.
18:32
Yes, I insist - and we will have more in Australia!
18:32
@sabine: orris root comes from iris, ancient Greek iris, iridos
18:32
18:31
[Comment From Alexandra AlexandriAlexandra Alexandri: ]
And a special thanks to the organizers from all of us who, volcano or no, would not
have been able to follow the proceedings and participate! Clearly, such conferences
are a way to go in the future.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:32 Alexandra Alexandri
Many thanks, Mary Jane
18:29
Judith Weingarten:
A conference never to be forgotten. In addition to the normal thanks to organizers,
many many extra cheers for Marie-Louise and Robert. This has been a remarkable
experience. Warmest regards from Tuscany, Italy!
Monday April 26, 2010 18:29 Judith Weingarten
18:25
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: @Aikaterini and Ioannes, wonderful paper & great use of Hittite
and Near Eastern texts!
18:24
Jan, we had already Champagne in Copenhagen, but if you insist ...
18:21
@Diana Thanks for sharing the picture. We wll have a geust at our house tonight
and I am preparing dinner while I watch and listen. What a great way to boldly take
scholarship where no scholar has taken it before. :)
18:21
Congratulations to Robert and Marie-Louise for such a triumph over adversity - one
we have all enjoyed so much. Break out the best champagne!
18:20
To all linguists around: Is there any possibility that "ertis" could be orris?
18:20
@Bernice Jones: the best summary of the translation of ertis as henna can be found
in Shelmerdine "The Perfume Industry of Mycenaean Pylos" pgs 25-28. And there is
a good entry for e-ti in Aura Jorro's lexicon.
18:20
@Diana Wardle: will you also be joining the "Forging Identites" seninar at the
Aristotle University in Thessaloniki next week? I would very much like to ask you
several questions regarding the textile tools from Assiros... I we're not going to meet
in Thes/niki, please feel free to contact me via email [[email protected]].
18:20
I express full agreement with Louise. Quite an experience. Good luck to the editors!
18:19
To Marie-Louise: a reminder was not unnecessary!
18:17
ashlarblocks:
Louise H: Thanks to Marie-Louise and Robert for creating a first of its kind global
Aegean event!
18:17
[Comment From Jason EarleJason Earle: ]
@ Cynthia: I don't think that the meaning of red was singular. In Mesopotamia, for
example, kings wore red to symbolize their divinely granted authority. But, if I
recall correctly, kings could gift red garments (as a sort of status symbol) to their
followers.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:17 Jason Earle
18:17
Hallo everybody... looks like I finally managed to solve my laptop problem (though
being very disappointed that I have missed large parts of todays and fridays
presentations)!
18:17
Mary Jane - Vry interesting talk - you mentioned the linear B term for Henna - can
you give me the reference.
18:17
ITMEDIA:
For Robert: Oh yes, I forgot.....Yours ML
Monday April 26, 2010 18:17 ITMEDIA
18:16
By the way, the editors of the volumes are both of us!
18:16
@Robert Laffineur: This sounds like a pretty big task for the editors. Good luck with
that !
18:16
We have now to begin working on the edition of the proceedings of Kosmos -a huge
task indeed, with a good hunderd contributions, that is probably about 1000 pages
(thanks, Marie-Louise, for the encouragement). Precise instructions can be
downloaded from the Kosmos Web site in Liège (www.ulg.ac.be/archgrec) and an email reminder will be sent to authors in the next days. A first and essential
requirement anyway is that we have to get all the manuscripts and illustrations by
the middle of June (yes, this year) if we want to have the volumes published in the
spring of 2011. A lot of thanks to everybody. Please be as efficient for submitting
your material for publication as you have been for submitting your presentation.
18:11
@ Sabine: That would be great! Please email me at [email protected] and we
will do this. Thank you so much!
18:11
Thenk you, Mary Jane; at the moment, Arco is correcting part of her writing, and
still needs more time to be in the final phase. Her problem is time: after the end of
her University grant, she is now working in a private high-school giving around 27
classes (hours) per week!
18:08
@Jason: thanks for your fine paper. What do you make of the Mycenaeans dyeing
some of their oil red? 1st millenium that gives it added value as being special, but
there's nothing about marking it for religous purposes. Do you think in Myc. culture
the red color might have connected it to religious sphere?
18:08
ITMEDIA:
GOOD LUCK WITH THE EDITING TASK, ROBERT! Yours ML
18:07
Now we have to begin working on the edition of the proceedings of Kosmos -a huge
task indeed, with a good hunderd contributions, that is probably about 1000 pages.
Precise instructions can be downloaded from the Kosmos Web site in Liège
(www.ulg.ac.be/archgrec) and an e-mail reminder will be sent to authors in the next
days. A first and essential requirement, anyway, is that we have to get all the
manuscripts and illustrations by the middle of June (yes, this year!) if we want to
have the volumes published in the spring of 2011.
18:06
@Mary Jane: The sage available in Crete (salvia trilobaO has a very strong aroma
that keeps well when dried. If you like I can send you some for your experiments - it
is strongest in July-August
18:06
Thanks, Bernice!
18:05
18:05
[Comment From Joann GulizioJoann Gulizio: ]
And thank you, Marie-Louise for reading my paper. I am glad you enjoyed it.
Actually, your research on the textile tablets was very helpful to me as I was
preparing this paper.
Monday April 26, 2010 18:05 Joann Gulizio
@Carlos Varias: I will be very interested to learn about Arco's research!
18:04
18:04
[Comment From Diana WardleDiana Wardle: ]
Sorry: text was supposed to go with web-address. I was training up the
grandchildren to be bankers or lawyers, but it looks like you have wrecked that!
Great to have been able to attend the conference from home: thank you very much
for a wonderful conference. These images taken here in Athens during the
conference when the children seized tea-towels to match the images they were
watching. The youngest is chanting 'Late Helladic' http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/aha/kaw/diana/A&K.htm Had you all intended to inspire
the next generation?
Monday April 26, 2010 18:04 Diana Wardle
@Mary Jane: right; would have to be dried, unless they transplanted henna plants
and grew the flowers locally. I forget right now why I thought that was unlikely....
18:04
18:04
@Sabine Beckham: I have not experimented with Thujone. I think it would be very
difficult to achieve toxicity with an olive oil infusion - unfortunately I am not at all a
chemist, but I plan on performing some sort experiments with sage-infused oil soon
(when I have access to a lot of fresh sage)
Fascinating paper, Jason!
18:02
18:02
@Cynthia: I think it would be interesting to see if it's possible to infuse dried henna
flowers into oil...otherwise, as you've noted, it doesn't seem possible that fresh
flowers would have survived the trip overseas to Pylos.
Thank you very much, Joann; please, do not hurry, take your time.
18:01
18:00
@ Cynthia: No, I didn't do a stypsis with the henna or with the alkanet, since I was
going for the color only. In the case of the alkanet, I still got a bright red; I doubt
stypsis would have helped the henna...
ITMEDIA:
Hi Joann, you paper was very fine, I read it and enjoyed it, yours Marie-Louise
18:00
I just want to apologize for not responding to the comments to paper earlier today. I
was not available at that time to tune in to the presentation. Carlos, I appreciate your
comments and questions and I will e-mail you personally to address them.
18:00
ITMEDIA:
Dear Jason, your voiced presentation works very well, thank you for this!
17:59
http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/aha/kaw/diana/A&K.htm
17:59
@ Mary Jane Cuyler. I really liked the experimental aspect to your paper. And your
right! The henna-dyed oil is pretty awful.
17:59
quick further thought, that the process of stypsis (boiling with astringent herbs like
cyperus) made olive oil much more receptive to scent than plain oil; did you boil
your oil before infusing things?
17:59
pietro militello:
Thank you. This could also explain the dogs in the Ayia Triada sealings
17:59
17:58
@Mary Jane Cuyler: Congratulations on your paper, MJ. I guess we can give up the
idea that henna was used to dye the oil red! Either ertis not henna, or the (nicely)
fragrant flowers were used, not the dyeing element.
@ Mary Jane : Nice paper. Have you tried to check if the amount of thujone that is
soluble in oil (is it?) is anywhere near to toxic amounts?
17:58
To Mary Jane Cuyler: Thank you very much for this splendid paper. I appreciate
very much your archeobotanical approach. As Cynthia Shlemerdine knows (and
probably yourself), a graduate student of mine, Roser Arco, is doing her dissertation
on the vocabulary related to the "perfume" industry in Linear B, so your work is and
will be of great help to her (unfortunately, because she is working now, she has not
been able to hear you)
17:58
@Angelos Papadopoulos: I'd love to get in touch. I've posted my email in a message
below, so if you like we can arrange a meeting
Monday April 26, 2010 17:58 Vassiliki Pliatsika
17:58
@R. Laffineur: Thank you so much. I'll keep in touch
17:58
[Comment From Eva Andersson StrandEva Andersson Strand: ]
Dear Mary Jane, thank you for a very interesting paper. I am really looking forward
to read you article.
Monday April 26, 2010 17:58 Eva Andersson Strand
17:58
@Josephine: Thank you. Very interesting point.
17:58
Mary Jane, I loved your approach into experimenting...I believe as recipes are not
complete...it is the only way....Bravo! We have to get together when you come to
Crete!
17:58
Here and ready to chat!
17:58
17:58
@pietro militello: It all started when I was trying to identify who is who regarding
violent actions. I was impressed to see that there is almost no difference unless one
can tell from the general iconographic context. As for Tomb Theta Kostas is the
person to ask, but according to his Udine paper (in press) they were found on the
man's chest
Thanks Joann. I enjoyed your paper too! I was up and at 'em quite early just for
you...well, and for all the other papers too :)
17:52
Nicely done, Mary Jane. Congrats.
17:52
I'm here and ready to chat!
17:51
@Lena Papazoglou! Thank you so much! It's a man's world indeed... (brilliantly
exhibited at NAM). Glad to have some armed females though!
17:47
17:47
@Dr.Pliatsika: Having seen your work, I could not agree more. I am now based at
Athens and if you want we can exchange views at some stage. Pictorial sherds can
be so informative and some pieces are truly unique. Thank you!
Vassiliki Pliatsika: I'll arange for this. Let's get in contact on e-mail.
17:47
@ML: I would be most interested and grateful to see the proceedings and then have
a chat with you. It is a pitty that even greaves are not preserved (with a few
exceptions). Thank you for all your help
17:42
pietro militello:
@Papadopoulos: in fact, the coincidence of iconographic details among these
different kind of subjects was one of the most striking contributions of your paper. I
was astonished. As far as the pins from Tomb Theta, were they not located at the
feet of the warrior?
17:35
[Comment From Josephine VerduciJosephine Verduci: ]
@Marsia Bealby: The flaring out of the upper body may be to do with a
muscular/athletic physique, however it is also the natural result of waist constriction
which often pushes the internal organs up and against the ribcage and as can be seen
in the image of Fakir Musafar I included in my powerpoint. This doesn't answer the
issue of muscular arms however .
Monday April 26, 2010 17:35 Josephine Verduci
17:35
@Kostas: Thanks very much for the comments, the pdf and the discussions we had.
Tomb Θ is officially my favourite one
17:35
good work, Angele, to present the men's kosmos
17:35
@Angelos Papadopoulos: Congratulations! I was really excited to see that you made
such good use of pictorial pottery evidence: I do think one should look more closely
at details and fragmentary pieces!
17:35
@pietro militello: thank you for the kind words. I have read your work and we are
on the same side. I was especially interested to see that warriors and boxers shared
the same iconographic elements. In fact I do believe that warriors-hunters-boxers
belong to the same "cycle"
17:31
@R. Laffineur: Oh, yes I would. I think these two sisters deserve to be examined
together in detail.
17:31
@Annette Pohlke: Yes I have looked at the use of corsetry by men and women of
the last 200 years - particularly the Victorian era, however, that was proving to be a
topic deserving a paper all of its own and I therefore chose to not include it in my
research. There are many interesting parallels and lots of interesting data particularly regarding the medical analysis of tightlacings effect on the human body.
Maybe another conference...
17:30
ITMEDIA:
From Marie-Louise Nosch: Angelos, it was a great paper. We had a conference here
about the military and textiles through time a year ago, I will send you the
proceedings, and I believe you show very well that allthough proper uniforms do not
exist in BA, the concept of uniform is already very develloped.
17:29
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Angelos: Bravo, Angele! Brilliant organisation of the available material on
warriors! Ecxellent methodology and valuable conclusions. Thank you!
Monday April 26, 2010 17:29 Kostas Paschalidis
17:28
17:27
pietro militello:
@papadopoulos, very interesting paper. The general perspective helps
understanding the different periods. in Creta Antica 4, , with reference to some of
Cretan examples, I suggested the existence of ritual competitions in Crete, which is
in line with the different and personalised attires of the warriors.
I'm here online :)
17:27
@Josephine: I am having a look at the depictions of the Aegean processional scenes
from Thebes, Egypt right now. It is indeed true that the waists of the Aegeans are a
lot slimmer than the waists of others, but this is particularly emphasised by the very
triangle-structured upper body of the Aegeans (good with sports?). The Aegeans
depicted have rather strong arms, and these body features can be also seen on the
Palaikastro Kouros.
17:27
@John Younger: I do mention your article in my footnotes and must say it was
important in directing my line of enquiry. I will look into the EIA example from
Crete which I wasn't aware of - thankyou.
17:27
@Vasiliki Pliatsika – I’ll be happy to meet you in November at the same conference
at Athens. There are obviously many features in House M which make it
extraordinary, especially the relationships with the surrounding storerooms,
corridors and casemates, as well as presence of frescoes, platform, and mobile finds.
Good luck with your study!
17:27
Vassiliki Pliatsika: I think it is on display. Do you mean that you would like to see
it?
17:27
@Marsia Bealby: Perhaps I should give a warning before showing those images??
17:26
@Bernice Jones: Thanks for the positive words!
17:26
@ ITMedia: My pleasure... It was recorded at 3 am and after several attempts. Glad
it works!
17:26
@Bernice Jones: Thank you so much for this. I have overlooked it and do want to
look into these tassels more closely.
17:14
@Robert Laffineur: Thank you for the kind words. I think it is not on display right
now, yes?
17:13
ITMEDIA:
And thank you to you for sending the narrated version, it works very well.
17:12
Yeap, I am online for any comments or questions. Many thanks in advance!
17:12
ITMEDIA:
Angelos, are you online?
17:11
Sorry, I meant to address my comment on the wasp-weited Minoans to Josephine
(not Angelos - my error).
17:10
17:10
@malgorzata siennicka: I have also noted that House M is close to the wall, as of
course is the Cult Center and other sacred areas. To be really honest with you I'm
still in the process of solving the riddle of the nature of the cultic activities that took
place in House M. I'll be delivering a relevant paper on the upcoming Mycenaeans
Up to Date conference in Athens in November and hope to address some of these
issues there.
Angelos - Very interesting paper. Good to see that you are tackling this difficult
subject and have gathered some belts - this is a much needed study!
17:07
Vassiliki, You might be interested in my suggestion of how the tassels work on the
Heanos in Metron 2003.
17:07
17:07
Interesting paper. But talking about "wasp-waisted" I was missing a referrence to
European fashion for high class women, especially in the 18th century. Or was that
too obvious?
@Josephine: excellent paper by the way.
17:07
17:07
[Comment From John YoungerJohn Younger: ]
Josephine: You may have mentioned my article (my computer kept crashing):
"Waist Compression in the Aegean Late Bronze Age," Archaeological News 23
(1998-2000) 1-9. http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/handle/1808/4301. cranial
deformity now from EIA Olous (Crete) reported in last year's Archaeology
magazine
Monday April 26, 2010 17:07 John Younger
@Josephine: Ouch That Hurt!!! : )
17:04
17:03
@Georg Nightingale & anyone who would like to contact me, my email is
[email protected] (you see, I'm always revolving around mycenaean
goddesses..)
My dear Judit, indeed you are right. It's worth thinking a bit more on this, as it
reflects a clear distinction in LH IIIA-B times. A fashion change perhaps?
17:02
To Vassiliki Pliatsika: Great paper. First time I'm invited to look so carefully at the
Brussels Lady. I've seen it so many times, however, but being Belgian is not an
advantage in this case!
17:02
@Lena Papazoglou: Thank you for your kind words. Indeed one figure from
Mycenae comes from a Tsountas excavated chamber tomb. There is only one other
example from a funerary environment, a head from a chamber tomb in Rhodes
(published by Benzi)
17:02
ITMEDIA:
Thank you to Vibe Martens for reading this paper: she is not Aegeanist but historian
(colonial studies) and student helper at CTR and we are really happy for her help
today.
17:00
[Comment From Joanne CutlerJoanne Cutler: ]
You are very welcome, Vassiliki - it was a great analysis of the figurines; and some
wonderful images!
Monday April 26, 2010 17:00 Joanne Cutler
17:00
16:59
@Vasiliki Pliatsika – Thank you very much for this fascinating new evidence for
cult functions of House M. Interestingly, House M is also located close to the
fortification wall, as G. Alberti observed for other Myc. cult buildings on the
citadels (lately the Midea Shrine). Do you think House M was a public shrine or
rather a house with cult functions (perhaps as House Beta on the West slope)? I look
forward to the publication of the complex!
@Bernice Jones: Thank you! Your work on mycenaean dress was so very helpful!
16:58
@Angelos Papadopoulos: Thank you very much. It's always a relief to hear that!
When you're dealing with religion you're always standing on thin ice..
16:58
@J. Younger: Thank you! Your writings on the use of rings and seals have been
more than helpful
16:56
@Oliver Dickinson: thank you very much!
16:55
@Oliver Dickinson:
16:54
@everyone: I have just made it into an airport hotel and am happy to answer any
questions. @Louise: Thanks for standing in!
16:54
I think my previous message was lost, so again my congratulations to Dr. Pliatsika
for a great paper and her methodology!
16:54
[Comment From Georg NightingaleGeorg Nightingale: ]
@ Vassiliki PLIATSIKA: You showed some very good pictures of glass and faience
beads from Mycenae. Could you possibly send me your e-mail as I would very
much like to contact you. Your paper puts the study of jewelry depicted on figurines
on a new level!
Monday April 26, 2010 16:54 Georg Nightingale
16:54
[Comment From Judit LebegyevJudit Lebegyev: ]
@ Vassiliki, What a brilliant paper!!!! The lack of earrings on the figures compared
to the Thera representations, I think is chronological, as shown also by the funerary
evidence: they are found in larger number in MH III and LH I, only a few examples
are known from LH IIA and LH IIB, and almost none from LH IIIA-B.
Monday April 26, 2010 16:54 Judit Lebegyev
16:54
@ Vassiliki. Thoughtful and well organized. One of the Mycenae figures you have
shown us comes from the chamber tombs, is it the only one from a funerary context?
16:54
I am immensely grateful to Joanne Cutler for reading my paper so well; to be honest,
better than I could have myself!
16:54
Fine paper, Vassiliki! I agree that the figurine wears a Heanos and am delighted to
see that tassels are indicated on the mainland.
16:54
To Eleni my pleasure and again I learned a lot. It also made me think from where the
tradition in Viking Age ( c. 2000 years later than Mycenean period ) came from,
since we do not have these items during earlier periods
16:53
Congratulations Dr. Pliatsika, a truly convincing paper. Great methodology!
16:53
Vassiliki: great paper! I look forward to reading it in detail! Thanks!
16:53
@ Vasiliki Pliatsika: excellent analysis.
16:53
@Robert. Thank you ever so much. I will try to trace this publication.
16:53
16:52
I am not one of the presenters, but a great (free!) tool for recording sound that is
available for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux is Audacity:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/about/. I used it at various occasions.
ashlarblocks:
Now it is caught up.
16:51
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: The s 2 slides ahead of the text.
16:43
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: Jo Verduci may be in transit, trying to get back to Melbourne,
and not monitoring the presentation. She would appreciate your comments by e-mail
at: [email protected] and [email protected]
16:36
To Marsia Bealby: the intriguing pendants from Aghia Triada and Giouchtas are
discussed in detail in a paper by G. de Pierpont at a conference in Mannheim in the
mid-eighties.
16:27
[Comment From Eleni SalavouraEleni Salavoura: ]
@Eva Andersson Strand: It's very interesting, even if there is a gap of many
centuries with the Mycenaeans examples. As far as I know, similar sets and objects
are common also in the Halstatt culture, as well as in the Renaissance... Thank you
once more for reading the paper!
Monday April 26, 2010 16:27 Eleni Salavoura
16:26
Anna SIMANDIRAKI-GRIMSHAW and Fay STEVENS: Very interesting paper. I
am also interested in the technique you used to record your narrative. I would
appreciate it if you and Costas P. and others who did successful recordings could
share their techniques with us - which would be enormously helpful for future
virtual conferences as well as for teaching. Many thanks.
16:26
@Anna and Fay: Thank you for a wonderful paper. The heart-shaped pendants /
amulets you showed on your paper, from Hagia Triadha and Giouhtas, and the
animals depicted on them (snakes, scorpion, spider, etc) are of particular interest to
me as they likely reflect some influences from Egypt (in shape and -possiblydecoration theme). I am looking forward to reading your work.
16:26
ITMEDIA:
We are more than 30 minutes behind schedule - we are sorry for this!
16:22
Anna SIMANDIRAKI-GRIMSHAW and Fay STEVENS: Your paper is very
compelling. A brilliant approach to the wearing of jewelry, in life and in death! Can't
wait to read your paper.
16:22
Anna, Thank you very much. Thought-provoking as all your papers. So sorry to
miss you at KOSMOS.
16:22
16:22
@ Simandiraki-Grimshaw: With regards to water. You can add the Octopus from
Mycenae and the flying fish from Spata. I like your paper very much and think your
ideas are very stimulating.
Dear Helena, thank you very much for your kind comment. It was my pleasure
16:18
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Anna: fascinating paper, I'll look forward to seeing the article.
16:15
16:15
@ Simandiraki-Grimshaw: I am not sure if your example for for Land and Air - the
glass beads you showed, can be identified as butterfly, as the motif could be seen as
a standard lily variety with two extension (I admit, that is therefore indeed looks a
little like a butterfly).
To Eleni curiosly we actually have more or less the exact type of "toilet sets" in
Viking Age Scandinavian chamber burials
16:06
16:03
Sorry for the late response but I was absorbed following the presentations of Eleni
Salavoura, Naya Sgouritsa and Helena Tomas. Thank you all for bringing so uch
into discussion. An update of the Early Bronze Age from the Mediterranean to the
Indus is to be found in ''Art of first Cities'' edited by Joan Aruz.
Soru
16:03
16:03
Dear Eva, you have just earned yourself an honorary doctorate in pronouncing
Balkan toponyms. I am sorry that I made it so difficult for you and that I was not
successful in recording my voice. Thank you. Thanks Kostaki and Oliveraki.
@Helena: fascinating material and parallels, Helena. We will email soon about plans
for next fall
16:03
Sorry for the late response but I was absorbed following the presentations od Eleni
Salavoura, Naya Sgouritsa and Helena Tomas. Congratulations to all for bringing
forward new insights.
16:03
[Comment From Ken WardleKen Wardle: ]
@Helena: have you reason to rule out the IA parallels? Some of the objects from
this fascinating hoard which you presented to us so clearly remind me of 9/7th
objects from Macedonian tombs.
Monday April 26, 2010 16:03 Ken Wardle
16:02
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Eleni: great to hear thae Mycenaean Attica still offers new material! I look
forward to meet you and discuss!
16:01
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Naya Sgouritsa: Thank you for sharing with us this new material from the
Mycenaean Saronic! I feel that there is much to be revealed in Lazarides in the
future expeditions of yours!
16:01
Well done, helena!
16:01
[Comment From Joanne CutlerJoanne Cutler: ]
It was my pleasure, Naya - great to hear about such an interesting new site!
Monday April 26, 2010 16:01 Joanne Cutler
15:59
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Helena: Thank you for this unique opportunity to broaden the geographic frame to
the north-west! And such an accurate methodology and arguementation (as if you
were comparing scripts)! Puno hvala!
15:58
[Comment From Naya SgouritsaNaya Sgouritsa: ]
@Georg Nightingale: Thank you for offering your help in identifying the beads - I
will certainly need it!
Monday April 26, 2010 15:58 Naya Sgouritsa
15:56
@Georg Nightingale
15:56
Thank you Marie-Louise for the excellent organisation and Joanne for a great
reading!
15:56
@ Kostas Paschalidis: Thank you, Kostas! The razor from the Koukaki tomb, you
showed us on Thursday, is almost identical with one we have recently found in a
new LH cemetery in Spata!
15:41
Carole – Thanks for your questions and sorry for the late response. Of course, the
more fabric, the more intricate weaving designs and the more dyed yarns all make
for a huge status statement. True, linen is more difficult to dye than wool, but linen
was dyed too - see imported dyed linen garments from Tutankhamun’s tomb that
I’ve discussed in Emporia 2005, 711-12.
15:41
To Eleni Salavoura: Thanks you for the additional information on dimensions. As
far as the specimen from Thorikos is concerned, I meant that it is probably the
earliest from the Greek mainland.
15:41
@Naya Sgouritsa: When looking at your slides of the glass and faience beads I
recognized several types. If you need some help for identifying these bead, I would
be happy to do so! ([email protected]) Very nice and fascination paper!
15:36
15:35
@ Oliver Dickinson: You are absolutely right. I' ve used Wooley's publication
(1934), so I' m out of date. But thanks to you, the gap with the Early Cycladic
examples is almost inexistant . Many thanks!
[Comment From Kalliope SarriKalliope Sarri: ]
Judit, thanks for your quick answer and for your excellent paper. We have to
investigate the case of gold jewellery as part of the clothes.
Monday April 26, 2010 15:35 Kalliope Sarri
15:35
@ Robert Laffineur: I also think that the ear-pick from the "oblong " of Thorikos is
the earliest example in southern Greece. But this one from the Archanes is, if not
earlier (MM III), of the same date (LM I). As it concerns the lenght, I think that earpicks of 6 or 7 cm length, it' really very difficult to be used as surgical instruments.
The Hellenistic-Roman ones, as this from Naurplion, are more than 30 cm. long.
15:18
@ Eleni Salavoura: Nice paper, but dId I hear right? Did you date the Royal
Cemetery at Ur 3500-3200? I fear you must have been using an out-of-date source,
because that's most of a millennium too early. According to modern sources, they
are Early Dynastic III, which is datable c. 2600-2350 BC, much closer to the Aegean
EBA.
15:18
@Kalliopi, the gold bands from grave 5 (92) in Argos were found at the left elbow
of the skeleton. In Grave Y in Grave Circle B the gold diadem was found by the left
shoulder of the adult female. i wll check for further examples.
15:17
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Eleni: Excellent presentation and balance on such a doubious object!
15:15
Very nice paper, Eleni. A gold "ear-pick" from Tholos tomb IV at Thorikos (the
"oblong tomb") is possibly the earliest specimen of the type (in the Piraeus
Museum). Is there a real difference in use according to the dimensions?
15:06
[Comment From Joanne CuterJoanne Cuter: ]
You're welcome, Judit - I enjoyed the paper very much.
Monday April 26, 2010 15:06 Joanne Cuter
15:06
@Kostas, thank you! Actually Angel's sex determinations are based on
morphological examination, thus nowadays are not considered reliable, but in this
case it is probable that he was right!
15:06
[Comment From Petya HristovaPetya Hristova: ]
@ Judit Lebegyev: Thank you for your paper! A note of caution -- gender, funerary
attire, and age in burial contexts likely reflect assignment of symbolic meaning, see
Parker Pearson's. In any case, most grateful for your paper.
Monday April 26, 2010 15:06 Petya Hristova
15:06
do you know who will be reading my paper?
15:06
Dear prof. Nosch,
15:02
@Diana, interesting suggestion!, thank you!
15:02
Marie-Louise Nosch:
@Annette Pohlke: No, it will not appear on your facebook, grant anyone access - it
only borrows your profile picture & name
Monday April 26, 2010 15:02 Marie-Louise Nosch
15:00
Good evening from Athens! Many thanks to Eva Andersson Strand for reading the
paper! I'll be happy to answer any questions and hear/ read suggestions.
15:00
I didn't log in through my Facebook account, because I wouldn't wnat anything I
type here to appear on my Facebook page (and this is how I understood the
instructions). Did I get this wrong or not or would there be a way to switch off that
feature and just gte the picture?
15:00
Thank you Joanne again for your very nice reading, and for John for the
complement, until then I will send you an article I promised some time...:-)
14:59
@Judit: I have often wondered if the bone pin (of this shape) in the 10 yr old grave
could be a writing stylus
14:59
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ Judit: Thank you for your brilliant paper! The child's burial with mirror from the
XXI Agora tomb is mentioned by Angel (in a footnote) as belonging to a girl,
another interestig detail adding to your discussion.
14:58
[Comment From Lucia AlbertiLucia Alberti: ]
To Judith Lebegyev: very interesting paper! It's really the type of approach we need
in funerary archaeology! Well done!
Monday April 26, 2010 14:58 Lucia Alberti
14:56
John Younger:
Judit: wow! I can't wait to read this paper with its wealth of detail. Many thanks!
14:56
[Comment From Kalliope SarriKalliope Sarri: ]
to Judit and Jane. In Argos, tumulus E, grave 1 (Kaza plot) a gold diadem was
placed around the hands. Do you know any other diadems placed not near the head?
Monday April 26, 2010 14:56 Kalliope Sarri
14:55
Marie-Louise and John - Sorry for the late response - yes, of course pregnancy
would be addressed by these large garments. Thanks.
14:53
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Dear all: If you want an avatar (a picture) and your name to appear, you can login
through Facebook or Twitter, read more here:
http://itmedia.hum.ku.dk/podcast/coveritlive/
14:47
Thanks Judit!! I did not know about this method of sexing for the very
young...thanks again! I am enjoying your paper!
14:44
@Anaya, the skeleton is sexed by Terence Brown and his team with aDNA (by
polymerase chain reaction) method.
14:41
test!
14:41
To Judit Lebegyev...Could you please let me how is a 2 year old boy sexed? Is this a
hypothesis or ?
14:41
Robert - Glad you liked my paper and thanks for the best news I've heard all year!
Bravo for continuing this wonderful work - I look forward to seeing you in Paris!
14:41
TO ALL: The "Guest" was me (see some comments below). I'll reboot now...
hoping to come back soon!
14:41
To Jane Hickmann. Very precise technical observations and comments that make a
welcome contribution to the reconstruction of the processes of manufacture of
Protopalatial jewels and show obvious similarities with Early Helladic and Trojan
jewellery.
14:41
@Joanne thank you so much for reading my paper!!
14:35
14:34
John Younger:
Jane: I'm impressed by a couple of parallels with the Aigina treasures. The FN
Amnissos pendant looks similar to a gold pendant in the EH III hoard, and the
Platanos pendant/s means of attachment & loop-in-loop chain look technically
identical to the jewels in the MM Aigina treasure. Many thanks!
@ Jane: The flower you show with the pendant came first to Crete in the 19th cent.
CE, alas .
14:34
To everybody: Since last Thursday am still having some unaccountable technology
problems with my laptop, causing my system to crash again and again. I'm trying to
fix this once for all, but may be off a while. In case any of you want to contact me
by e-mail, please do not hesitate. My addresse is: [email protected] I'm off now,
hoping to re-connect as soon as possible!
Monday April 26, 2010 14:34 Guest
14:29
[Comment From Pietro MilitelloPietro Militello: ]
@Luca and Eva. "spool" is a simple shape that could be used in different periods for
different goals. The use in kiln is attested, e.g. in the archaic period, but the many
"spools" at the end of the Bronze Age are in context more coherent with a textile
use. Moreover, the fabric is not consistent with the presence in a high temperature
context
Monday April 26, 2010 14:29 Pietro Militello
14:29
[Comment From Pietro MilitelloPietro Militello: ]
@Valeria Lenuzza. La linea internet nel dip.to è saltata alla fine del tuo intervento.
Sono dovuto tornare a casa. cognratulazioni, bella ricostruzione. Perché non inserire
anche il sigillo da HTR CMR II,6,26?
Monday April 26, 2010 14:29 Pietro Militello
14:29
[Comment From Agnete LassenAgnete Lassen: ]
Thank you very much, Judith.
Monday April 26, 2010 14:29 Agnete Lassen
14:29
Marie-Louise, thank you so much for reading my paper. I hope you are well and
look forward to seeing you again.
14:21
Judith Weingarten:
@Agnete, the Near Eastern cylinders on MM Crete are detailed in Joan Aruz's
*Marks of Distinction* 90-99. They come from Platanos, Tylissos, Mochlos,
Arkhanes, and Knossos.
14:17
@Kopanias: Very stimulating paper! You only mentioned the MB seals. Perhaps
you could say a few words about them. What types of NE seals do you find in this
period? thanks.
14:17
Kostas - I'm sorry, too. Want you to know that your recording inspired me to spend
the whole weekend learning to make my own and much to my surprise - it worked!
Yes, miss you, too!
14:15
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Test!
14:13
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Peter: Thank you! e-mail me to let me know when you are coming!
14:13
Thank you very much. I look forward to looking at those references.
14:12
[Comment From Salvatore VitaleSalvatore Vitale: ]
Hello everybody! It is great for me to be able to attend the conference also on-line
from Italy. Thank you for the interesting papers and discussion. It is a great news
that the Aegaeum Series will continue in the future!
Monday April 26, 2010 14:12 Salvatore Vitale
14:12
[Comment From carole gilliscarole gillis: ]
to Konstantinos. Thank you for an interesting paper. Have you clustere by color,
motif, stone type, form?? is there anything significant in these parameters?
Monday April 26, 2010 14:12 carole gillis
14:12
[Comment From Jacke PhillipsJacke Phillips: ]
Konstantinos: Excellent paper! Focussing on just one object type has produced such
interesting results!
Monday April 26, 2010 14:12 Jacke Phillips
14:12
@Konstantinos KOPANIAS: A very interesting paper. I am fascinated by your
evidence for different uses of such seals during the same period.
14:12
John Younger:
Konstantinos: nice paper -- I hadn't realized the different deposition histories of the
cylinders (although I was of course aware that Mitannian cylinders seem to be
everywhere). How do you think the cylinders left their homelands??
14:12
@Konstantinos, thank you for this very interesting and stimulating paper.
14:12
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Luca: I have just gone through the Kamilari reference. Thank you so much for
your kind suggestion!
14:11
Peter Pavuk:
Excelent job, Kostas! See you next week in Athens!
Monday April 26, 2010 14:11 Peter Pavuk
14:11
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ Bernice: I just now found some time to connect myself from the Museum! I am
so sorry I missed your paper! I hope to see you on your next visit in Athens. I am
sure you have presented a great study as you always do!
14:11
John Younger:
Marie-Louise: I was thinking the same thing: side-pleated skirt would be useful
during pregnancy.
14:04
Thank you, Agnete Lassen - You can see my reconstructions of flounced skirts and
kilts in Archaeology 2000, Potnia 2001, Metron 2003, and Emporia 2005.
13:59
Many thanks to all of you for your wonderful comments. For further discussion,
please email me at: [email protected]
13:56
13:56
We have done weaving experiments with spools, 100 g and ca 280 g. Both set-ups
functioned perfect (thereby not said that they also could have been used for
something else) The experimental reports are availableat CTR if someone wants to
know more about the details.
Liebe Marie-Louise! Ich habe Dir einige Bilder per e-mail geschickt.
13:56
Liebe Marie-Louise!
13:52
It was great to see reconstronctions of the flounced skirt! Thank you very much.
13:49
13:49
@Bernice: A really nice paper and presentation - and thank you to the readers who
are doing a fantastic job with other people's words and helping to make them so
interesting.
Thank you, Berenice. I'm glad to see this skirt given recognition.
13:49
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Bernice, the pleated skirt would also be usefull with pregnancies
13:48
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Bernice: fascinating paper - lots of great information.
13:48
John Younger:
Nice paper (& presentation), Bernice!
13:48
Many thanks, Luca, for the reference.
13:47
Judith Weingarten:
Bernice, this is seriously new. Much to think about now. Thank you so much.
13:47
A great paper, Bernice, showing the "Bunte Götter" of the Aegean Bronze Age.
13:47
to bernice--Thank yu for this. two questions: do you think that the complicaetd skirt
with side pleats instead of a simple sarong is a status statement---i can afford a lot of
unnecessary textile cloth? Second: how dificult ndhow likely is it tht the colorful
and variegated skirts would be made of linen? I thought linen was quite difficult to
dye--? Big status statement??
Monday April 26, 2010 13:47 carole gillis
13:44
@Berenice: I thinkyou can add also the MM IIB groups of nice polychrome
Kamares figurines found at Haghia Triada in 1991, probably part of a circular
model, and preliminary published in Kritiki Estia 1991-1993 by La Rosa.
13:42
@Kostas Kopanias: Geia sou Kosta... krima pou den mporousame na synantithoume
stin Kopeghagi. Tha 'thela na sou deixo polla pragmata stin "poli mou"! Well, see
you in Athens another day, instead. Looking forward to see/hear your paper in a
second...
13:32
@malgorzata: thank you for your comment. Though I never happened to meet
Lorenz in person, I know his 2008 article. Will be glad to check out other papers of
his on this matter. However, as the function of spools really are a problem/issue on
its own (same goes for the pierced clay discs), I prefere to focus on spindle whorls
and loom weights in the first place.
13:30
[Comment From Elizabeth ShankElizabeth Shank: ]
Bernice: Great job with the voice over. The presentation is very clear.
Monday April 26, 2010 13:30 Elizabeth Shank
13:30
13:28
To Joann (if you are on-line): Thank you very much for this extraordinary paper,
which such an accurate analysis of te-o-po-ri-ja; I like a lot. Actually, I dealt with
this term very briefly (because of the space available) in the proceedings of a
Spanish conference, and in a Greek conference (it's a pity we didn't meet us at
Copenhagen). One question: is it possible to think in two different festivals, or
better, two celebrations, in different times, of the same festival te-o-po-ri-ja, given
the unespecific name of this festival? Also I wonder if the tablets from the Area of
the Clay Signet are all contemporary to those of the North West Passage. Another
point are the hands: it could be in favour of your hypothesis the fact that Ga 1058 is
in hand 135, who seems to be connected with scribe 103, the author of Od 696 (I've
lost if you have mention this fact).
@Peter: Vielen Dank. looking forward to your email...
13:27
@Diana & Luca: That is also my experience with the spools from Kastanas. They
are probably too badly fired to resist stacking of any kind of objects. This is also the
very same reason why spools (as well as any other poorly fired clay objects, like
most of the Bronze and Iron Age loom weights) would not have resisted a function
as net sinks or weight (which has been discussed): they would simply - and very
quickly indeed! - have been dissolved in the water.
13:27
Joann, really interesting! I will call you soon to discuss.
13:26
Many thanks to John Younger and Alison Watkins for showing me how to make this
recording!
13:25
Joan, Thank you, Sorry to miss you at KOSMOS.
13:25
nice paper Joann. Looking forward to seeing you in Pylos again
13:25
Thank you very much, Marie-Louise, for reading Joann's paper, in addition to the
many tasks and responsabilities you have in running this session.
13:24
Peter Pavuk:
Hi Sascha, gut gemacht! I will send you an email later on.
13:23
13:19
@ Sascha Mauel – There are also clay cylinders (spools) at LH IIIC Tiryns. You
may be familiar with the papers of Lorenz Rahmstorf who discussed LBA spools
from the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean as possible loom weights: in
‘Perifereia’ from 2003 and Karageorghis&Matthäus 2005. He discussed the spools
also in Tiryns XVI (Rahmstorf 2008).
@Luca: The Macedonian spools I have handled are too poorly fired to survive use in
a kiln or as fishing weights
13:16
13:14
@Luca: If you by 'stacking support' mean some sort of spacers, in order to stack
pottery etc. infront of an oven before firing them, I have to confess that my
knowledge of firing clay objects in open spaces is poor. (i.e. regarding ovens much
unlike the case with modern exemplares). But you may have got an idea there...!?
Let's ask any potter in the audience
To Loeta. Nice to see that you are with us again.
13:11
[Comment From Loeta TyreeLoeta Tyree: ]
@Valeria: Enjoyed your paper. I have lots of related questions that obviously can
not be asked now.
Monday April 26, 2010 13:11 Loeta Tyree
13:09
[Comment From Valeria LenuzzaValeria Lenuzza: ]
@ Bernice: thank you so much for the reference.
Monday April 26, 2010 13:09 Valeria Lenuzza
13:08
Joann, are you there?
13:06
@Petya: thanks a lot. I'll check it out... ;-)
13:06
Hi Sascha! I liked your paper. Sorry for the delay I was listening to Valeria. As for
the bobbins and the picture you showed, it was very fast slide. Have you consider
the possibility that these could have been used for pottery production as stacking
supports? I am sure I am wrong.
13:06
Interesting Paper, Valeria - For your interest, you might want to look at my paper in
Metron 2003, "Veils and Mantles: An Investigation of the Construction and
Function of the Costumes of the Veiled Dancer from Thera and the Camp Stool
Banqueter from Knossos."
13:04
Valeria, Thank you. Much to think about.
13:03
[Comment From Petya HristovaPetya Hristova: ]
@ Sacha: Fol, A., and R. Schmitt (2000) A Linear A Text on a Clay Reel ...
Praehistorische Zeitschrift 75:56-62
Monday April 26, 2010 13:03 Petya Hristova
13:03
To Malgorzata Siennicke. And a pleasure for me to meet you after missing you in
Copenhagen
13:02
13:01
@Ken Wardle: Thanks for adding your Assiros finds (which, of course, are in fact
"your wifes" textile tools!). I am very well aware of the parallels, and I have refered
to them in my MA thesis. By the way: I am very much looking forward to seeing
you next week in Thessaloniki, at the Forging Identities seminary with Kostas
Kotsakis....
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Great paper, thank you Valeria.
12:58
12:58
With reference to looms in Macedonia - Assiros hgas good parallels for Kastanas in
both weights and spools, while the loom in situ
(http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/aha/kaw/assiros/assirosialoom.htm#recon) has post holes
as well as 16 weights.
@Robert Laffineur - It will be an honour for me! :-)
12:58
Congratulations to all on this triumph of technology over tephra.
12:54
ashlarblocks:
Louise H: Yes, very exciting news to know that the Aegean conferences & the series
will continue!
12:54
12:54
@Petya: Thank you for mentioning the LH IIIC spool. I believe I've come across
this spool several years ago (when I still wasn't very much into textile studies), but
the find sounds familiar. Maybe you could find me a reference, so that I can look it
up once more?
PHYSIS is a very inspiring topic for the 14th conference.
12:54
To Malgorzata Siennicka. Thanks. You'll be the first on the list.
12:50
@Robert Laffineur – Great news about the next Aegaeum conference! I like the
subject very much!
12:47
@Fotis: Of course! 301.. the library at the A.Π.Θ. Now I clearly see you infront of
my inner eye! How nice meeting you here again....
12:46
Marie-Louise Nosch:
We are approximately 10 minutes behind schedule due to technical problems at the
start of streaming.
12:44
[Comment From petya hristovapetya hristova: ]
@ Sascha Mauel: Fol and Schmitt publish a spool / clay reel / Tonspule from
Drama, Yambol (BG) with Linear A (or a combination of Linears) inscription; a
stray find, but dated to LH IIIC.
Monday April 26, 2010 12:44 petya hristova
12:43
@ Henriette: thank you a lot for reading my paper.
Monday April 26, 2010 12:43 Valeria Lenuzza
12:42
12:41
Contrary to what some of you were thinking, this is not the last conference in the
series. It is true that I'll retire at the end of September. But I'll keep some facilities
here and I'll be pleased to go on with the Rencontres egeennes, as well as with the
Aegaeum series. The next meeting (the 14th conference) will take place in Paris in
April 2012, as a joint organization by the University of Paris I Pantheon Sorbonne
and the University of Liege. Gilles Touchais will be our host, on the topic PHYSIS.
L' environnement naturel et la relation homme-milieu dans le monde egeen
protohistorique. The exact form is not yet decided, but it will probably be inspired
by the Kosmos model and associate physical presence and on line participation, so
that colleagues who would not be able to attend will have the possibility to
participate on the Web. Information and call for papers will be posted in the next
months.
@Sascha: 301 equals to the archaeology's dpt library...
12:40
@Fotis: Thank you for your congratulations. Se thymamai, nomizo... an kai den
echo idea pou itane ("exo apo to 301"?)...
12:40
A keyboard problem, apparently, in my announcement of the next Aegean
conference. Sorry for this. I'll send a corrected version in the next minutes.
12:38
Thank you Marie-Louise. Obviously it was a little confusing, but I'll do my very
best to sort out any misunderstandings in the article...
12:36
Thanks you so much, Eva, for reading my paper. I really appreciate your assistance.
Tack så mycket!
12:35
12:35
@Sascha: Sigharitiria Sascha kai kali synecheia me to phD. Eihame prin hronia mia
mikri sizitisi exo apo to 301 –sou eiha dosei kapoies plirofories gia ta spinningrelated M.A.s at AUTh. Best.
Thanks a lot, Eva, for reading Sascha Mauel's paper
12:35
[Comment From pietromilitellopietromilitello: ]
very interesting material. Have you found post-holes in the floor with groups of
loom-weights that can be considered part of the loom installations?
Monday April 26, 2010 12:35 pietromilitello
12:35
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Great paper Sasha! You have gathered very much material and solid conclusions
12:33
Including a selection of the online comments is certainly possible -and desirable.
This is a hard editorial job, however.
12:33
I agree on your wish, Jan, to have on line meetings happen more aften (a similar
wish expressed by Judith earlier on the chat). Contrary to what some of you were
thinking, this is not the last conference in the series. It is true that I’ll retire at the
end of September. But I’ll keep some facilities here and I’ll be pleased to go on with
the Rencontres égéennes, as well as with the Aegaeum series. The next meeting (the
14th conference) will take place in Paris in April 2012, as a joint organization by the
University of Paris I – Panthéon Sorbonne and the University of Liège. Gilles
Touchais will be our host, on the topic PHYSIS. L’environnement naturel et la
relation homme-milieu dans le monde égéen protohistorique. The exact form is not
yet decided, but it will probably be inspired by the Kosmos model and associate
physical presence and on line participation, so that colleagues who would not be
able to attend will have the possibility to participate on the Web. Information and
call for papers will be posted in the next months.
12:28
Marie-Louise Nosch:
I think we will mainly have the on-line comments and questions available
electronicaly, but it is of course up to Robert to decide what will be published.
12:26
ashlarblocks:
Louise: I hope you're able to include a selection of the online comments as well.
12:22
12:18
Hello from Atlanta, USA. Glad to know that you will include an essay on the
technical aspects of KOSMOS in the publication. It would be good for this to
happen more often (I mean planned, not because of a volcano).
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Great to have you all here with us!
12:18
Hello from Atlanta, USA.
12:18
Hi everyone, checking in from Austin Texas-Monday April 26, 2010 12:18 Cynthia Shelmerdine
12:16
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Dear Judit, yes we have you updated version and Jo will read it for you
12:15
[Comment From Neculai BolohanNeculai Bolohan: ]
Hello again from sunny Romania !
Monday April 26, 2010 12:15 Neculai Bolohan
12:12
Helena Tomas:
Yes, it is like Copenhagen does not want me! :-( Marta told me that I am not allowed
to plan to go to Copenhagen when she is going, since something always goes wrong.
12:11
Good morning from Cologne. I'm on the chat, and I will try to answer any of your
questions...
12:11
Marie-Louise Nosch:
HI Helena, yes, it is really mysterious, I wonder what will hapen next time we
invite? Tsunami?
12:10
12:08
Helena Tomas:
Thank you! How efficient you are. Great to hear your voice in the background,
Marie-Louise! This is the second time that I did not make it to Copenhagen due to
weather conditions (you remember my cancelled flight three years ago?) and that is
really annoying. I will be there on the very next possible occasion.
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Commercial break is over!
12:08
Greetings from sunny The Hague! @Marie Louise, have you received my (updated)
presentation (text+PPT)?
12:08
/me applauds.
12:08
12:08
The proceedings volumes will include an introduction, of course, that will explain
the reasons of having an on line Kosmos conference, and that will comment on the
technical aspects as well.
Ida Demant:
for more information on workshop you can also contact [email protected] :-)
Monday April 26, 2010 12:08 Ida Demant
12:06
Helena Tomas:
Eva, where is that workshop going to take place? I did not hear?
12:06
Marie-Louise Nosch:
These nice men are our techicians, not textile researchers!
12:06
Good morning from Sharjah!
12:06
Ha! Finally! What is an online event without some technical difficulties. :)
12:05
good morning from Sicily!
12:05
Good morning from Marsia and University of Birmingham UK. I am looking
forward to today's papers.
12:04
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Thank you for this commercial !
12:04
Marie-Louise Nosch:
We have a little technical problem - so Eva makes a commercial break for you. we
will be back in a minute!
12:03
Angelos Papadopoulos:
Hello Dr. Dickinson, good to "hear" from you...
12:02
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: Good-Evening from Melbourne
12:01
Morning, Helena, Angelos, everyone. the suspense is building ...
12:01
12:01
[Comment From pietromilitellopietromilitello: ]
@Marie Louise and Robert. Still congratulations for the successful conference. I
also agree with Pohlke. this conference opened new perspectives, and would affect
our way of organising in the future. How was the experience for those in
Copenhagen?
Monday April 26, 2010 12:01 pietromilitello
Hello from sunny Warsaw!
12:01
To Marie-Louise: Good morning from hot Barcelona (21 degrees, summer weather
(too early in the year)!). I'm back to hear sessions today. Thanks a lot again to all of
you CTR.
12:01
Peter Pavuk:
Greetings from Heidelberg!
12:00
Marie-Louise Nosch:
The latest programme is now updated and available at the CTR website
11:59
Helena Tomas:
Good morning to everyone!
11:59
Kalimera from Athens! Have a great fourth Day!
11:58
Found the programme; I expected it to be on this page. Okay, settled in and all eyes
and ears.
11:58
@Fritz @Robert Now some will have both expereinces: Being at Copenhagen and
being there from where the Conference was broadcasted and participating over the
internet. Makes an interesting comparison.
11:56
@Marie-Louise It would be great if not just the usual proceedings of the conference
will be published eventualls, but also if you would publish why you choose to take
the evnt online, how you did it, how people liked it, waht everyone saw as
advanatges and disadvantages. I think good usecases like this can help a lot to
establish good practice and to inspire people to make good use of digital
technologies and the internet. I'd be extremely interested to learn a little more about
the technical side of this event, if possible including the question how feasable it
would be for universities to stream conferences more frequently.
11:54
11:47
Good morning Copenhagen and good morning to all Kosmos attendants in the world
(the Kosmo-nauts, to take Judith’s nice designation). The conference is now getting
to its end and we have to express our thanks again to the CTR team and to the staff
of the computer services at the University of Copenhagen for having made that great
and successful event possible. I’m back in the country that is called Belgium (for
how long?), but I’m with you on the Web, sitting at my desk at the University and
ready to listen to the last set of papers.
[Comment From Marie-Louise NoschMarie-Louise Nosch: ]
No, todays event is posted on the CTR website
11:47
Is the final program for today the one sent through AEGEANET?
11:45
@Marie-Louise
11:45
[Comment From Jenny Wilson, AustraliaJenny Wilson, Australia: ]
Thank you Marie-Louise, Robert and all the technical team for a wonderful effort,
and a most interesting conference. I look forward to today
Monday April 26, 2010 11:45 Jenny Wilson, Australia
11:45
[Comment From Jenny Wilson, AustraliaJenny Wilson, Australia: ]
Thank you Marie-Louise, Robert and all the technical team for a wonderful effort,
and a most interesting conference. I look forward to today
Monday April 26, 2010 11:45 Jenny Wilson, Australia
11:45
Good morning from Crete north-east, where the air is dusty from olives in full
bloom.
11:44
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Test
11:41
Good morning from Berlin.
11:40
Hello everybody! We hope you had a nice weekend. Loking forward to your
comments and questions!
11:40
Good morning everyone! I am looking forward to today's papers :-)
11:37
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Good morning from a windy Athens. I like the "stand by mode" music. What is it ?
10:37
[Comment From FritzFritz: ]
Hello "KOSMOS"! I am back at Vienna. Thank you, Marie-Louise and Robert, for
these wonderful days at Copenhagen. And good luck for the last conference day!
Monday April 26, 2010 10:37 Fritz
10:26
Itmedia:
Hej så er vi online
Monday April 26, 2010 10:26 Itmedia
11:33
Itmedia:
...sunday testing
Sunday April 25, 2010 11:33 Itmedia
19:59
Itmedia:
Service message: Chat taken out of standby-mode, and comments approved...
(Annette P, ITMEDIA)
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:59 Itmedia
19:58
19:58
[Comment From Florica MatauFlorica Matau: ]
To Salvatore Vitale: The same association Naue II sword and spearhead can be
found north of the Balkans, in the Lower Danube region. If you are interested on I
can send you more details.
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Florica Matau
Good night (or morning depending on time zone) all! See you on Monday!
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Alexandra Alexandri
19:58
19:58
@Judith: I don’t know of a sword that has just one use, even if it needs a primary
technique to be effective. In battle you would not only thrust but also cut and
perhaps even hit. You can certainly thrust a scimitar into someone if needed (i.e.
your life depended on it and that was your only angle).
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Alexandra Alexandri
[Comment From Florica MatauFlorica Matau: ]
Congratulations to Marie Louise and all extraordinary people from CTR . Thank you
so much for another incredible day.
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Florica Matau
19:58
[Comment From Efi TSItsaEfi TSItsa: ]
Wonderful papers! Thank you all. Goodnight from Crete!
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Efi TSItsa
19:58
[Comment From Kate HarrellKate Harrell: ]
@Judith: My stepfather is a woodworker, and many of his tools are older than he is-literally heirlooms. He oils them and takes care of the wooden handles. It seems
perfectly reasonable in the normal caretaking of a sword to sharpen the edges, even
of a thrusting sword.
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Kate Harrell
19:58
Thank you for your stamina and this addition of a memorable day....Goodnight from
Crete
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Anaya Sarpaki
19:58
To Marcia Nugent...Thank you for your paper and the subject so close to my
heart...Regarding reeds though I said that Arundo is used as windbreaks now-a-days
but there is no way of knowing whether it was the same in Prehistory...possibly
though...
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Anaya Sarpaki
19:58
Astonishing indeed! Many thanks, goodbye to all until monday
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:58 Cynthia Shelmerdine
19:57
@Alexandra--I've noticed this phenomenon too. I think it's interesting how standard
"tools" are actually quite important to people, I think because they become a part of
a person's hands. I studied a few BA/EIA sickles and they are usually over-worn on
one side, like they were used in the same way for many years. They really become a
person's hands and are filled with significance
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:57 Kate Harrell
19:57
[Comment From Danai KontopodiDanai Kontopodi: ]
Many congratulations to the organizers and participants. Thank you so much for the
livestream and the very interesting presentations.
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:57 Danai Kontopodi
19:52
19:51
[Standby] The chat is back online monday
Itmedia:
...
Saturday April 24, 2010 19:51 Itmedia
19:45
Annette Borrell:
Sleep tight:-)
Friday April 23, 2010 19:45 Annette Borrell
19:41
John Younger:
I agree -- I've been here since the beginning -- 3 in the morning! I'm going to take a
nap! Thank you everyone for a great 3 days!: organizers, participants, tech crew !!
Friday April 23, 2010 19:41 John Younger
19:40
Annette Borrell:
Thanks - and you too:-)
19:39
malgorzata siennicka:
Thank you very much for this day! Have a nice evening in Copenhagen and else!
Friday April 23, 2010 19:39 malgorzata siennicka
19:39
Judith Weingarten:
Well, naturally you're all tired. I'm pooped ... and I've done nothing but sit at my
desk today. Thanks so much for another incredible day!
Friday April 23, 2010 19:39 Judith Weingarten
19:38
ashlarblocks:
Louise: Thanks again to the organizers for bringing us together again. Good night
from Melbourne.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:38 ashlarblocks
19:38
It was another day of great and inspiring papers. I am looking forward to the papers
on Monday :)
Friday April 23, 2010 19:38 Katherina Aslanidou
19:38
Jane Johnsen:
There was a little technical problem in the last presentation. We apologize for this.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:38 Jane Johnsen
19:37
Judith Weingarten:
Interesting, Alexandra, that you would spend time sharpening the edges of a
thrusting sword. It's not a scimitar, is it?
19:37
[Comment From Julie HrubyJulie Hruby: ]
@Kate: re. boar tusk, email me a mailing address at [email protected].
Friday April 23, 2010 19:37 Julie Hruby
19:34
@Katherine Harrell: the interesting thing is that the same kind of attitude seems to
exist with modern weapons. Soldiers will modify their rifles in order for them to be
weighed anf sighted correctly etc. and it seems, unlike in movies, they don’t just
grab the first gun in sight and fire. Perhaps there is also another analogy in the time
spent taking care of a weapon used frequently: cleaning a sword, sharpening the
edges etc.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:34 Alexandra Alexandri
19:32
@Marcia, Beautiful paper. It made me recall the waz-lilly pendant from Knossos
palace. A combination of lilly and papyrus plant. It 'mixed and matched' Aegean and
Egyptian symbolism and emblems.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:32 Marsia Bealby
19:31
Marcia-beautiful images! Nice to see the floral parallels....
Friday April 23, 2010 19:31 Elizabeth Shank
19:31
[Comment From Danai KontopodiDanai Kontopodi: ]
Many congratulations to the organizers and participants. Thank you so much for the
livestream and the very interesting presentations.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:31 Danai Kontopodi
19:30
@Kate: Intriguing idea that the sword has a life of its own!
Friday April 23, 2010 19:30 Loeta Tyree
19:27
@Julie: incidentally I'd love to get my hands on some boar's tusk! : )
Friday April 23, 2010 19:27 Kate Harrell
19:27
19:26
@Julie--interesting comment about the armour and the helmet. The idea that
"drawbacks" aren't drawbacks per se but are rather individualisms that the
swordsman must work around
Beautiful paper Marcia, we are sorry that you cannot be with us here to present it!
Friday April 23, 2010 19:26 Marie-Louise Nosch
19:24
To Alexandra--yes I'm really interested in the idea that the sword is part of the body,
and vice versa, the human body is an extension of the sword
19:23
19:22
19:22
@Kate: I can't help wondering if the armor was typically just as challenging to use
as the swords. I bought some boar tusk, and it splits if you glance in its general
direction.
@Kate: that's really nifty.
ITMEDIA (STEEN):
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Tak. (Reply Privately)
Friday April 23, 2010 19:22 ITMEDIA (STEEN)
19:22
@Katherine Harrell: extremely fascinating ideas! Especially since in most warrior
cultures the weapons are considered extensions of the bodies of the warriors – if it is
not part of you, you cannot wield it or use it
19:21 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to ITMEDIA (STEEN)] Ja, det er den sidste for idag.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:21 KosmosAdmin2
19:21
[Comment From ITMEDIA (STEEN)ITMEDIA (STEEN): ]
Er dette den sidste for i dag?
Friday April 23, 2010 19:21 ITMEDIA (STEEN)
19:21
[Comment From Jo CutlerJo Cutler: ]
Kate, you're welcome - it was a great paper.
Friday April 23, 2010 19:21 Jo Cutler
19:21
Yes I have encountered Gell before but I forgot about his enchantment discussion--I
will re-read this straightaway.
19:19
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Kate: wonderful paper!
19:18
19:18
John Younger:
Kate: wow! I really liked that paper! Do you know this book: Gell, A. 1998. Art and
agency. An anthropological theory, Oxford. Gell talks of "enchantment": the ability
of weapons, tattoos, intricate designs to dazzle opponents.
Thanks so much to Jo for a wonderful reading!
19:18
@Kathrine. Thank you for this great paper.
19:18
Thank you for the kind comment!
19:16
Judith Weingarten:
Katherine, this is a fascinating idea. I'm so glad I stayed on to the very end of today's
streaming.
19:10
By the way, the facial scars can be seen nowadays in tribes of Africa such as Uruba,
Bini, etc. Different facial scars for every nationality.
19:06
It feels good to see how many of you make use of the new (since 2004) display of
artefacts in the Prehistoric Collection of the National Archaeological Museum,
Athens to make your points
Friday April 23, 2010 19:06 Lena Papazoglou
19:05
To Papazoglpu: Thank you, very much. I used data from your excavations for my
reconsideration of the ELBA sequence from Kos. I will be happy to send you an
offprint
Friday April 23, 2010 19:05 Salvatore Vitale
19:05
Hi Everyone: I've got to leave for a previous appointment (I didn't realise two more
would be added last minute), so see you all on Monday. Last comment: I have
trouble with the Oxford Egyptian radiocarbon conference, unless they used newly
recovered material in Egypt and not material in European/American museums,
which by now would likely have been skewed by air contamination. But this isn't the
place for this discussion - lets go back to the papers at hand....
Friday April 23, 2010 19:05 Jacke Phillips
19:05
@Judith: If I recall correctly, the trees were dated by dendrochronology, wiggle
matching with a now long sequence of other data.
18:59
Louise, I recommend Time's Up (ed. Warbourtor 2009) and Freadrich 2009. These
books came out November 2009, but a few months earlier, in March, the Egyptian
radiocarbon conference 'messed up' things again. Not even the transition to the New
Kingdom is 'secure' any more : )
18:58
Judith Weingarten:
@Loeta, did anyone deal with Malcolm Wiener's contention that volcanic chemicals
could skew the dating of the (first) olive tree?
18:58
18:55
New radiocarbon dates are now published by Wild and Gauss and other authors for
the sequence of Aegina Kolonna which provides the longest sequence for the Agean
bronze age
Friday April 23, 2010 18:58 Luca Girella
Louise: There is a second olive tree as well as new dates.
18:55
Abby, Thank you. I am so pleased to see your skirt cut on the bias. I have long
thought that the only way to get the shape of the flounced skirt was a bias cut. Also
it is economical - you can get 2 squares out of the one square of material.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:55 Janice Crowley
18:55
@Salvatore Vitale: Was my impression with regards to the beads accurate that in
LH IIIB there are no more or less complete necklaces on Kos but that they rather
used single or a few beads only?
Friday April 23, 2010 18:55 Georg Nightingale
18:54
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Loeta, @Marsia: are these new dates connected with the olive tree or are
there new, new dates?
18:52
Loeta: I've heard Sturt before, and he always gives excellent talks.
18:49
18:49
To Salvatore. Good luck with your project on Kos, I am looking foorward to see
your paper published. On Kos I excavated, may years ago, my very first chamber
tomb furnished with LH IIIB pottery.
We are going to do them soon, Tobias
18:49
@Salvatore: that's fantastic! And congratulations on making it to Copenhagen.
18:49
@Phillips. Sturt Manning gave an excellent talk last week at the American School
that focused on the scientific evidence including new radiocarbon data. The
evidence is now overwhelming and it appears that a 17 century date has to be taken
seriously.
18:46
Hello July. The human bones were thought to be lost but I relocate part of them last
year. we hope to e able to study them soon
18:45
Annette Borrell:
From Marie-Louise: The KOSMOS program continues on Monday 26th at 12.00
(Western Europe time). The program will be posted on the web tonight.
18:45
Oliver: Phil has gone back to it!!??!! I'm so glad! We have agreed not to agree since
1988.
18:45
18:44
[Comment From Caroline ZaitounCaroline Zaitoun: ]
To Carlos: Thank you very much. The notation of other interesting ingredients can
be discussed. I would be glad to share the results of my researches on thoses
substances.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:45 Caroline Zaitoun
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Salvatore, very interesting paper - esp. the sword & discussion of
Ahhiyawa, congrats!
18:43
Annette Borrell:
From Marie-Louise: PROGRAM FOR THE REST OF TODAY: First K. Harrels'
paper on The Weapon's Beauty, then Marcia Nugent's paper on Botanic Motifs of
BA Cycladic Islands
18:43
@Jackie, I cannot give you percentages, but the problem has gone more complicated
after the recent conferences of radiocarbon in Oxford and the 7icaane.
18:43
@ Louise: this is results of first major season of excavation.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:43 Oliver Dickinson
18:43
[Comment From Tobias MuehlenbruchTobias Muehlenbruch: ]
to Salvatore Vitale: Thank you for presenting this fascinating material. Is there also
analysis of your Naue II-sword?
Friday April 23, 2010 18:43 Tobias Muehlenbruch
18:43
To Salvatore....Is the organic material you showed only figs? Are they dried figs or
just fresh but charred?
Friday April 23, 2010 18:43 Anaya Sarpaki
18:43
@ Salvatore: I'm sorry if you covered this, I was having some computer challenges
at the beginning and don't know the site at all well - is there skeletal material?
18:42
18:42
@ Jacke: I am sticking with the standard chronology, more or less (and have said so
in forthcoming entry on Aegean prehistory in the Cambridge World Prehistory
ADVERT), and Malcolm Wiener told me that Phil Betancourt has gone back to it.
Excellent paper Salvatore! and good luck with your full project. I'm so glad these
sites are being more fully re-investigated.
18:42
18:41
Thank you for your paper Salvadore....the amount of research you put into it is
impressive...yet, I will play the devil's advocate and my question is whether the
wealth of the burials should NECESSARILY reflect the level of the wealth of the
society or is it reflective of other factors as well??...like more materiality versus
spirituality, less splashing of wealth for various reasons...change of belief regarding
afterlife and the need of wealth there??? Just ideas.
Salvatore, congratulations! I really liked your paper. Good luck for your project!
18:41
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Oliver, I only knew about 3 tablets, so it sounds like there's more. We saw
excavations there last June, but not a burned building, but that might be more recent.
18:39
Yes, Marsia - This is true!
Friday April 23, 2010 18:39 Bernice Jones
18:39
Does anyone know what - generally - is the percentage of Aegeanists who follow the
17th c. Theran date and those who follow the 16th c. date (whatever they are).
Obviously, I go with the 16th c. date, but I'm wondering how many 'straight'
Aegeanists do
18:38
@ Louise: interesting. Hector Catling was *not* impressed when he visited it, he
told me a while back. Yes, i knew it was close to Vapheio & Palaiopyrgi. They now
have 5 tablet frs, I believe, and a big burnt building.
18:35
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Oliver, I've been to Ayios Vasileos several times, most recently last year
with Anne Chapin and Emilia Banou. It's a very impressive site - Emilia showed us
some of the many kylix stems she found there in her survey. And, it's very close to
Vaphio
18:35
[Comment From Nancy ThomasNancy Thomas: ]
Thanks for the very kind comments while ago. I appreciate them very much. To
Marie-Louise and Anne, I dont know what to say about cross-craft between textiles
and painting. I've concentrated on the clues left by handling tools, not the transfer of
similar images themselves. Anyway, Marie-Louise, didn't you just knock us over
with the horrendous number of hours it took to make one piece of cloth! Would a
skilled textile worker ever have time, or permission, to do anything else?
Friday April 23, 2010 18:35 Nancy Thomas
18:33
Judith Weingarten:
No, of course, I'm joking. Geraki had easy access via Kythera. In fact, there is some
"Geraki Ware" at sites on the Lakonian coast -- and, as Tristan will know -- obsidian
blades of very similar type are found at Kythera and Geraki.
18:33
@Bernice: They is only one way you can make both an Aegeanist and an
Egyptologist happy: don't raise the issue of chronology : )
18:33
@ Louise: Yes, what about Ayios Vasileios? A real "turn-up for the book" - have
you been there (I haven't)?
18:33
18:33
@Cynthia Shelmerdine: thank you very much. I regret that I will not stay in
Copenhaguen until monday and that we couldn´t meet in the conference. Your work
on perfumed oils was very helpful for me. Looking forward for other discussions on
the subject.
@ Annette Borell: nice - but where's all the food we were told about? :)
18:31
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Judith, Lakonia was absolutely central in Aegean prehistory
18:30
On Interconnections – I agree and believe that the Aegean can only be understaood
within the broader context of the Near east and Egypt, as I show in my paper.
18:30
18:30
@ Judith: now, if we could find a Geraki-style sealing on a Cycladic island ... Never
got as far as Geraki, but thiis was clearly an important site, for all its being so far
inland.
I'm not sure when it's on now...?
18:28
To Caroline: Many congratulations on your paper. It's very interesting your
approach from Egyptian evidence to understand the production of perfumed oil
recorded on the Linear B tablets. Actually I have a graduate student whose
dissertation is the vocabulary of this perfume industry (focusing on linguistics) and
its continuity in later Greek, so your tentative interpretation of *157 and KAPO is of
great interest for her work.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:28 Carlos Varias
18:28
@Kostas. The problem is that sometimes we see the 'state' (palaces, etc) behind
everything, and we underestimate the personal factor and how everyday people
could challenge this networking system.
18:28
@ Luca Girella: not sure what you mean here, Luca - I do not think the islanders
would bring all this to Mochlos, or provide to sailors from Mochlos, without getting
*something* in return.
18:28
Kate, I am looking forward to seeing your paper with its beautiful title.
18:28
@Kate, very interesting paper.
18:25
Annette Borrell:
We have now uploaded some photos of today's audience in the conference room.
Please view your colleagues at:
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/audiencefriday
18:24
Judith Weingarten:
Luca et al, I think the seals and sealings coming to light in the Cyclades shows that
the 'international spirit' is alive and well at this time. We now have the impression of
a metal stalk? seal, probably a Cycladic import, at Geraki (Lakonia) -- a site that I
am not allowed by the excavators to call "in the middle of nowhere" but that's where
it is. :-)
18:22
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Luca. It is very possible that networks were sophisticated so much that we may
not imagine. But I couldn't possibly explain such a theory to my grandmother who
used to live on a rocky island with goats and wait for the rest of the necessary
products from the old-fashioned exchange system with the mainlanders (when the
weather permitted). People lived for centuries away from structured models.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:22 Kostas Paschalidis
18:19
18:19
@Caroline Zaitoun: congratulations on your paper. The Egyptian parallels, esp. P.
Ebers, are really interesting. There is always more to say about perfume--more to
come from Mary Jane Cuyler on Monday too.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:19 Cynthia Shelmerdine
I am here online if anyone has questions or comments
18:17
CHANGE OF PROGRAM FOR THE NEXT PAPERS: Next two speakers are
Salavtore ´VITALI, Dressing up the Deads, and afterwards it will be Abby
LILLETHUN, Finding the Flounced Skirt.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:17 Robert Laffineur
18:16
@Oliver Dickinson@Judith: why we should think that something got back
necessarily from Crete to Cyclades? The Renfrew International spirit should be put
into a severe and restricted nature that were the Cyclades, with just an handuful of
sites controlling communication routes and networks....networks of social
interacions. I think Manning in the 90es and Broodbank recently tried to explain this
system better than my words
18:15
@ Kostas: perfectly true, though the islands might get those things from the Greek
mainland as easily. I forgot to mention the gold coming to Mochlos also, agreed
most likely from the Near East. Well, this is a problem that recurs in Aegean
prehistory, as with the immense wealth of the Shaft Graves ...
18:13
@Caroline: The difference between fat and lanoline is that the latter acts (as
beeswax) slightly as an emulgator and thus helps to make the unguent stable.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:13 Sabine Beckmann
18:12
Judith Weingarten:
Oliver, admittedly not much evidence. Only the Amorgos cylinder springs to mind
for this period (a very clear imitation of a Syro-Cilician stamp cylinder).
18:12
Kostas Paschalidis:
No matter how populated or deserted Cycladic islands are today, they -all of themneed to be supplied with wheat, oil, meat and even water in order to survive. And
this was always happening, long before the second half of the 20th century.
18:11
General comment: Kali orexi to participants in Copenhagen; I am jealous.
18:11
18:09
On interconnections: Yes, it is "double the effort" + but more and more scholars are
doing it - and it is necessary if we are to gain any where near a true picture of the
Aegean world.
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Marsia, It's extremely tricky! I've participated in a number of
interconnections workshops now, where participants are not able to integrate the
discussion of 2 or more cultures, or they are repetitive, or there is a fall back either
on diffusion or pots = people
18:09
18:09
Thanks to all of you for a very innovative conference week which - despite all
difficulties - was very successfully! Looking forward to "seeing"/hearing you all
next week. Enjoy your meal and have a nice weekend, whereever you may be in this
KOSMOS!
Friday April 23, 2010 18:09 Sascha Mauel
@Judith, Oliver: I suppose there is always the possibility of perishable products
being taken to the Cyclades
18:08
18:08
Janice: Absolutely! I've been working on interconnections/cross-cultural
transmission between Egypt and the Aegean for almost as long, and your book also
was a bible for me! And just as much frustration in dealing with academic
compartmentalisation. This is such a treat here!
Jane Johnsen:
From Marie-Louise: I believe the participants are now getting hungry - we have
broadcasted 8 h now. Food is served from now on in CTR, including beer....
18:06
Interconnections are 'double the effort', since the student has to catch up with both
(or more that two) backgrounds at the same time. They can get rather tricky.
18:06
Danish beer definitely tastes better in Danmark than anywhere else in Europe...
18:05
@ Judith: Okay, the silver is being trans-shipped, but the point remains - what is
going the other way? And the obsidian and a lot of copper are staying in Mochlos.
18:03
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Marsia, not to mention beverages that are stronger than coffee!
18:03
Judith Weingarten:
@Oliver, if Mochlos is essentially a trans-shipment point, it wouldn't have to
produce anything. That's the beauty of island trading posts. You have to look beyond
Mochlos, which is another problem....
18:03
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Janice, excellent point! I did my MA in Mesopotamian history, and did
Aegean for my PhD and felt continuously discouraged with regard to looking at
Interconnections. Your book was like a bible for me.
18:02
but still we are ever so happy to be given the chance to virtually attend it.
18:01
It certainly lacks the coffee & biscuits chill out networking environment...
18:01
Susan, I am sorry for the mistake with the slides.
Friday April 23, 2010 18:01 Eva Andersson Strand
18:01
18:00
General Comment. As someone who, thirty years ago, was investigating
interconnections with Egypt and the Near East and had a hard time getting it
considered, it is most rewarding to see so much comment at KOSMOS on this very
matter. We have come a long way - even since the Cincinnati Conference - to accept
this reality of cross-fertilization.
Jane Johnsen:
In addition this allows us to have a more precise log of discussions, questions and
answers
17:59
Jane Johnsen:
The ideal approach to conferences is of courseto have a combination of both virtual
and physical presence. The virtual streaming allows or a much greater audience...
17:57
17:57
General comment: this is a good way of hearing seminar and conference papers
when one cannot attend, but not of discussing what is said - and it is clear from
many comments that people like to *see* each other and talk.
Judith Weingarten:
Louise, Marsia: Ask the Hallagers to send more Dane-power to Athens! Then, we'll
get the Seminars live-streamed.
17:55
I agree with Louise. That would be an excellent idea.
17:54
ashlarblocks:
Louise: It would be great if the Minoan seminars were streamed live.
17:54
[Comment From Iphiyenia TournavitouIphiyenia Tournavitou: ]
Pietro, I sent a message some time ago, but apparently it didn't get there!! Although
the study is not yet complete, I believe that the composition was set at eye level
between decorative borders,much like the Tiryns boar hunt!! It was a miniature
composition and I believe that most of the extant pictorial fragments belong together
and form the decoration of the stoa
Friday April 23, 2010 17:54 Iphiyenia Tournavitou
17:53
[Comment From Marcia NugentMarcia Nugent: ]
@ Susan. Interesting paper. I am sorry we have just missed each other for the second
year in a row!
Friday April 23, 2010 17:53 Marcia Nugent
17:53
@ Tristan: I meant "fi*t* in
17:52
[Comment From anna lucia dagataanna lucia dagata: ]
shall we be able to go back to the old style conferences? This is a Kosmos that set a
new trend ... a new Kosmos indeed ...
Friday April 23, 2010 17:52 anna lucia dagata
17:50
@ Tristan: a very interesting paper - but what was going back to the Cyclades from
Mochlos in exchange for all this - and how does the Cycladic collapse fir in?
17:50
@ Susan: I believe to have read somewhere that azurite turns into malachite with
time and oxidation - how do we know which of both were originally meant to be in
the case of the now green ones?
17:47
Annette Borrell:
@Judith - yes - this digital alternative works great. Thanks to all of you:)
17:45
Judith Weingarten:
Annette, "Welcome to the Digital World" indeed!
17:41
Annette Borrell:
We have now uploaded some photos of our surroundings here at the University of
Copenhagen and the KOSMOS conference. Pure blue sky... Please view the photos
here: http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/surroundings
17:38
[Comment From pietro militellopietro militello: ]
@Iphigenia Any idea about the composition (eye level frieze, larger friezes etc.) of
the Stoa paintings?
Friday April 23, 2010 17:38 pietro militello
17:37
Hello from Copenhaguen
17:35
Judith Weingarten:
Tristan, I'm sure you're right that silver was a main trade item between the EB II
Aegean and Syro-Palestine ... and that it stimulated a host of innovations. Fine
paper.
17:35
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: Good-O, Stringy!
17:34
[Comment From Susan FerrenceSusan Ferrence: ]
Thanks, better.
Friday April 23, 2010 17:34 Susan Ferrence
17:34
Slides are still behind
17:32
[Comment From Georgia FloudaGeorgia Flouda: ]
Well done Stringy! Hope to see you soon in Crete!
Friday April 23, 2010 17:32 Georgia Flouda
17:31
I think you're behind by one slide
17:27
Judith, Nancy: Exactly! You start by applying what you know and eventually work
out how to use the new material/technique. Think of the earliest metal axeheads and
how they gradually slimmed and thinned down with splaying end, to still work
efficiently in metal.
17:27 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Please identify yourself by name when posting
17:23
Judith Weingarten:
@ Anne and Nancy, I have recently been watching a painter friend of great skill turn
her hand to sculpture. The first efforts were fascinating but still very 2-D; now, years
later, she is entirely at home in 3-D. It took about 5 years to become a Master of
both arts.
17:22
@ Marie Louise and Nancy, Going all the way back to Evans' observations about
the Partridge/Hoopoe Fresco Knossos, there seems clear cross-craft interaction
between landscape fresco painting and complex (tapestry?) textile design. This is
most obvious now in the X3 lady with the landscape skirt and less obvious but
clearly there in the Crocus Panel from HoF, Kn. Seems to me that there was a 2-way
dialogue going on between the two artforms, with each art form influencing the
other. The more regularlizing elements of some Minoan (and later) landscapes may
be influenced by textile designs, now lost?
Friday April 23, 2010 17:22 Anne Chapin
17:22
Thank you to Kristian Kristiansen for reading the paper. And thank you to Tristan
for a great paper: you were the first colleague to sign in for KOSMOS, about 2 years
agao, it is a pity you are not here.
17:12
Nancy, I follow up on Louise H.'s comment: what are the implications for textile
work? How would a weaver carroy concets of textile work to other media, in
particular techniques and aestetics?
17:11
Nancy, I love your approach and your keen eye. What you describe here is exactly
how we train artists in our art department at Brevard College - we require art majors
to take classes in a medium other than their preferred medium. That is, we
encourage our painters to sculpt and vice versa. The experience in different media
nearly always leads to stronger art overall. Great to see the same thinking in the
Aegean Bronze Age! It's a real insight into artistic training and practice. Bravo!
17:11
Nancy - A really first-rate paper! I loved your distinguishing between the flat, cutout style of the lion hunt and nilotic daggers versus the sculptural 3 lion dagger definitely different hands and different concepts. Miss seeing you, too! How did you
get out of Florida when no one else could??
17:11
@ Nancy: Great paper - a good example on how art historical interpretations should
be done!
17:10
Nancy, Way to go! Especially with the mistakes made by the artisans as a result. I
had fun doing the same idea with sculptors in wood who had to switch to stone. Not
the same thing at all, and they made mistakes. Must talk about this when you're back
in Jax.
Friday April 23, 2010 17:10 Guest
17:09
[Comment From Vassilis PetrakisVassilis Petrakis: ]
@ Nancy Thomas: Brilliant work and certainly one of those paper that we shall have
to read in much detail when the Proceedings come out!
Friday April 23, 2010 17:09 Vassilis Petrakis
17:08
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Nancy: Very creative and fantastic paper! It makes me wonder what the
implications are for architecture.
17:08
Judith Weingarten:
Congratulations Nancy. Super paper. One might be able, even so, to add in metal
signets.
17:07
Nancy, Fascinating detail. Thank you so much for this illuminating examination of
the daggers.
17:07
To Nancy Thomas: I guess I had to wait for the conlcusions of the paper! Many
thanks!
Friday April 23, 2010 17:07 Eleni Drakaki
17:07
John Younger:
Nancy: masterful! I'm convinced!
17:06
Karen Foster:
Nancy: fantastic paper! You would much enjoy the symposium volume on crosscraft connections, ed by Pam Vandiver.
Friday April 23, 2010 17:06 Karen Foster
17:05
To Nancy Thomas: How remarkable observations! Any ideas on the origin of the
craftsmen/artistis working on the material found on the Mainland?
17:04
@ Nancy: great paper!
17:03
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ Nancy R.Thomas: Excellent paper, congratulations!!! I have a small addition to
second your observations, if I may. What indeed distinguish the "lion hunt" and the
"nilotic" daggers from the "three lions" one is that the former two follow the princile
of the same scale for all figures, as if they were carved on Classic temple pediments.
By contrast in the "three lion" dagger, lions get smaller towards the dagger's tip in
order to fit the frame. Such a contrast show a fundamentally diffrent concept and
approach. Thank you again for such a wonderful presentation!
17:03
Nancy Thomas's: handling tools -- is there a connection with the steatite / soapstone
molds, fine, fine steatite molds usualy found in pieces, small, small pieces
Friday April 23, 2010 17:03 petya hristova
17:03
@ Nancy: brilliant presentation!
17:03
Excellent and an extremly interesting presention Nacy, Thank you
16:58
Nancy Thomas, this is a brilliant approach! My father is an artisan; he works mainly
in wood, stone and plaster - and you know, in each medium he has a very distinct
"signature". Also, his work with one medium informs how he might work in
another. Sometimes he treats stone as wood, and wood as stone.
Friday April 23, 2010 16:58 Mary Jane Cuyler
16:54
[Comment From VanghelisVanghelis: ]
Richard, I have to go, but I did not catch Carlos arguing in favour of o=o-pe-ro .
There is a recent paper by Rupert on the use of o in the middle of the text. But that is
the topic of an email conversation rather than here.
Friday April 23, 2010 16:54 Vanghelis
16:54
Thank you to all of your for your comments. To Jorg: you are right, I think that the
are no other example, but I hace to check it. In fact, it is a suggestion by Killen, but I
did'nt comment it because of the time.
16:54
The puzzle of pieces of cut gold foil culd the have cross craft connotations with
tapestry weave where areas of fabric are made in seperate blocks
16:54
I really like how you investigate via the concept of cross craft!
16:53
@ Carlos Varias: Congratulations on an excellent paper, wonderfully laid out!
Masterful presentation of the Mycenae 'patchy' evidence on textile production! I
lament not to be able to meet there.
16:53
[Comment From Olga KrzyszkowskaOlga Krzyszkowska: ]
To Vanghelis and Judith: the written version of my paper provides much more detail
regarding Knossian provenances, real and presumed, than possible in the
presentation.
Friday April 23, 2010 16:53 Olga Krzyszkowska
16:44
[Comment From Graduate StudentGraduate Student: ]
I've been waking up early to watch this and rushing to get back to it all week.
Thanks so much for putting this together. If these presentations are being recorded,
please announce on Aegeanet how to get our hands on them. Thank you so much to
the organizers and technical staff!
Friday April 23, 2010 16:44 Graduate Student
16:43
@Carlos: very good and useful paper, thank you! I'm glad you did get to
Copenhagen
16:43
16:43
@Judith: indeed / @Carlos: great to see another facet of your work with tablets in
the Argolid / @Marie Louise: its a pity we cannot see any of the food from the
internet...
@Carlos: Most interesting !!
Friday April 23, 2010 16:43 Richard Firth
16:43
16:43
[Comment From Jørg WeilhartnerJørg Weilhartner: ]
@ Carlos: Many thanks for your paper. As regards the proposal to read o-u-te-ra as
o(-pe-ro) u-te-ra I would like you to ask if there is any other instance for the
abbreviation o appearing before another word and not before a logogram
Friday April 23, 2010 16:43 Jørg Weilhartner
Go, Nancy!
16:43
Jane Johnsen:
Once again we need to remind people to please keep the 20 minute time limit on
presentations, as we are falling behind schedule
16:42
Alessandro Greco:
Wonderful work Carlos!
Friday April 23, 2010 16:42 Alessandro Greco
16:42
@ Georg Nightingale, Cynthia Shelmerdine: You are perfectly right in that the
information of the tablets was NOT widely circulated. I did not argue against that.
But perhaps differing eloquence in these inscriptions can be an index of other things,
such as importance of subject-matter for the administration (need for clarity) and,
perhaps, time-depth of the specific event recorded. Now, this joins with Cynthia's
last remark on 16:34. If, the da-mo-ko-ro was rarely appointed, this should certainly
be an unusual and special situation. Perhaps, then, the seeming thematic uniqueness
of the Ta tablets would reflect a very exceptional occassion. Your point is perfectly
arguable! What do you think about Palmer's early 'mortuary' interpretation of the
set?
16:41
Judith Weingarten:
@Vanghelis, no, not the Royal Road. Those are all excavated, but some of the soft
stone seals which come from non-excavated sources.
16:41
Kostas Paschalidis:
Congratulations Carlos! Great to see you again.
16:40
Thanks Judith, does this include those presented by Olga as Royal Road though?
16:40
@Katharina Aslanidou: Watching your baby presumably "totally fascinated" by
Linear B is a good sign for the future of our field!
16:38
Judith Weingarten:
@Vanghelis, a word of caution: many seals attributed to 'Knossos' may not have
been found there at all; it was a popular attribution by dealers and collectors.
16:34
16:34
@Vassilis Petrakis: You are right of course that such vocabulary would occur in
other recordings of this type. But my point would be that such occasions could be
very rare. How often is a damokoro appointed? We have references to other
festivals, but no accompanying inventories of furniture. I think feasts of one kind or
another were regular, but this occasion seems unusual. Of course we are always
limited by the accident of what is preserved.
@Iphigenia. Sent already a message, but did not arrive. I asked if you were able to
reconstruct the fragment from the stoa as a large or small frieze at a high level.
16:33
Congratulations on yet another terrific and insightful paper Olga. With luck see you
next week.
16:32
Annette Borrell:
Photos of Katharina Aslanidou and baby watching KOSMOS are now on the
conference website. Follow this link:
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/photosfriday
16:27
To Olga Krzyszkowska: Unfortunately, I was able to follow your paper only very
intermittently; I cannot wait for the printed version!
16:26
@Cynthia. I am sorry. While writing I have not seen that you actually commented
on this point...
16:25
[Comment From Olga KrzyszkowskaOlga Krzyszkowska: ]
Sincere thanks to Tobias for reading my paper. Further details will appear in the
written version. Meanwhile comments and questions welcomed. Best wishes for
remainder of conference. Congratulations to Robert, Marie-Louise and all technical
teams in Copenhagen for making conference possible.
Friday April 23, 2010 16:25 Olga Krzyszkowska
16:25
@Vassilis: You are right with your care about determining the sufficiency of a
record. Nevertheless, when explaining Linear B administration to my students I do
remaind them about the comparatively small population of Pylos and about the even
smaller group of "tablets-writers" and "tablets-readers" (most likely idential).
Furthermore they seem to have intended their written information for little more
than a single administrative year. This might mean that they could possibly still
remember many of the facts they had written down. Very abreviated documentation
on Linear B tablets seems therefore quite "sufficent". But if other people were
supposed to read the texts whicht were not so intimately involved in the
administrative process then my hypothesis is totally wrong ;)
16:25
@ Cynthia Shelmerdine: Yes, the emic/ etic contrast is precisely what I was getting
at! The large concentration of hapaxes you cite is a very-very important observation.
On the other hand, however, PY Ta is also thematically unparalleled. Perhaps, such
vocabulary could have been more 'usual' in recordings of such items AND under
such circumstances (the temporal clause on Ta 711.1). What do you think?
16:21
16:21
Olga, fascinating paper, extremely important to work with seals found in one place
(not a grave) and mostly from one period. I completely agree with your comparison
with the signet rings. Fascinating
Clear and convincing as always. So sorry to miss you at KOSMOS.
16:19
@Iphiyenia: Do you think that, judging from the growing body of material, we may
consider as "normal" that at Mycenae the warrior and hunter painted scenes exist in
wide distribution?
Friday April 23, 2010 16:19 Angelos Papadopoulos
16:16
@Vassilis Petrakis, Georg: Thank you Vassili. The other tablet series do contain
much less information, so it's easy to imagine a routine purpose of retaining
necessary information for a period of time. One can see a plausible link between the
information recorded and a likely purpose. The Ta series is extraordinary, the words
are, manyof them hapax, because such information was not normally recorded. That
sets it apart, I think. But your point is still good. Emic and etic categories, again...
16:16
@Cynthia: It seems to be a very good idea of you that the administrators are
captivated by the topic that they are supposed to record to such an extent that they
actuallay mirror the importance of the objects in writing especially carefully. Toms
quest for "kosmos" by the Myceneaean palaces seems to come into play here.
16:16
pressed the link and it says it does not work...sorry
16:16
@ Iphiyenia Tournavitou: Excellent and much enjoyable for us as well! The
immediate contribution is that looking in the West House in this way and in
juxtaposition to the 'palace' per se, throws new light on the function of this important
group of buildings. Congratulations!
16:16
Jane Johnsen:
Salvatore Vitale has now made it to Copenhagen!
16:13
Annette Borrell:
The Lujan/Bernabé paper is placed top right on the page.
16:12
Annette Borrell:
The paper by Euginio R. Lujan and Alberto Bernabé "The Work of Ivory in
Mycenaean Texts" will not be broadcast live. But we have uploaded the paper to the
conference page. Please follow this link:
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/kosmos_programme_friday
16:09
Thank you all for your comments!!! I have put a lot of thought and work into this,
and although I enjoyed it immensely, I hope I have 'read' it correctly...
16:09 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Please identify yourself by name when posting
16:09
@ Georg Nightingale: I apologise for intervening to your question to Cynthia
Shelmerdine (such are the pros and cons of chating on-line!) I think the question you
asked is applicable to all sets of tablets. It is an intriguing, but also a potentially
dangerous one: How do we declare the 'sufficiency' of a record?
16:09
16:09
Thank you all very much for your comments!!! I put a lot of thought and a lot of
work into this, to understand the whole picture, and I hope I have 'read' it
correctly....
Congratulation, Iphigenia, I liked how you combined the all stuff!
16:09
Iphigeneia, Congratulations for the good work. It is good that you commented on the
secular character of mycenaean palaces and their wall paintings
16:08
@Iphiyenia - a most interesting paper! Thanks!
16:08
Fascinating paper. A dynamic in the choices of themes just opposite to what
happened in Crete. By the way, a decorated "stoa" (with animal, hunting or
sacrificial) was perhaps also at Ayia Triada.
16:08
@Georg: This is an important question. Only the scribe could actually read them, I
think, but the Ta tablets form a record of stored wealth and prestige, about to be used
on a particular occasion. In addition to the useful purpose, maybe stating such full
information was also purpose, to affirm the wealth/prestige. This is a very unusual
series, with perhaps a more symbolic purpose than usual. I’m still thinking about
this issue though.
16:08
To Iphigenia: Thank you very much for this splendid paper. It is a great help to me
to work with the Mycenae's tablets. I look foraward to seeing the print version, and
to see you again!!
16:05
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Iphiyenia - wonderful paper!
16:04
@Iphigenia: A great paper indeed. It is so good to see these iconographic motifs
outside the megaron of Mycenae and the palatial complex in general. Much to talk
about when we meet at Athens. Thank you
16:02
Judith Weingarten:
Thank you, Iphiyena. Putting it all together like that makes very good sense.
16:01
@Iphigenia – Thank you very much for an inspiring paper (as always!)
16:01
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Iphiyenia!
15:57
@ Ruth Palmer (if out there!): I hope to see more on your work in progress which
Tom referred to. Perhaps in Paris?
15:56
Iphigenia, I cannot of course see the details but could this be a 'sacral knot' and not a
woman on the right?
15:56
15:52
@Cynthia: Maybe I have missed this point (if so, I apologize for asking this
question). Who do you think was supposed to read this detailed and sophisticated
listing of the Ta tablets? You mentioned that a much shorter description would have
sufficed for the administrative needs of the administration as we know it from the
Linear B tablets.
Iphigenia this is most impressive work that you have put into this!
15:48
@Tom: Your identification of kosmos by the palace to its surrounding is most
convincing. Can you define a border between the palatial zone (within this system of
kosmos) and the outside zone not under direct palatial control, to which the kosmos
of the palatial state rather might look like a threat to local independent ways of life
and power structures.
15:48
[Comment From emily eganemily egan: ]
@Mary Jane: definitely a possibility! I wish we had more of the colored bits
preserved...
Friday April 23, 2010 15:48 emily egan
15:45 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Richard Firth] I am glad that helped. Best Jane
15:44 Richard Firth:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] OK thanks. That worked !! (Reply Privately)
15:43 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Richard Firth] Perhaps you need to close your browser and restart
15:42
@Emily Egan: The "repaired" table is an interesting idea, but I think we should be
cautious about placing our ideas of "kosmos" on the Mycenaeans. Perhaps the
"erratic" appearance was, to them, beautiful and intentional?
15:41
I'm really looking forward to seeing these papers in print - there are so many
complex ideas that I know I'm not fully processing yet.
15:41
15:41
@ Tom Palaima: Thank you for a most inspiring paper! Indeed, the imposition of
the palatial culture must have involved a significant change in the cosmological
perspectives of contemporary communities. The palace, to them, must have surely
have felt like a different 'kosmos' in its other sense, 'world'.
@Tom: liked the paper very much. I'm all in favour of putting a positive spin on the
Mycenaean palatial world.
15:41
Tom what happened to the traditional farse?
15:41
15:41
@Carlos, Yes, I think it is an inventory before a feast, because the heading mentions
that this inventory is made on a particular occasion, and the equipment is both
furniture and vessels for cooking and serving food. @thank you, Emily, I hadn’t
thought about that possibility for the table, I will see if I can look at it this summer.
The fact that the ‘plugs’ are both red and white, though, suggests they are
decorative, not just utilitarian. @Lena thanks, I send you my paper today too (the
un-cut version!).
@Cynthia & Tom: Thanks for your interesting papers.
15:41
To Tom: Thank you very much for your splendid and attractive paper. Great to hear
you from Copenhagen.
15:35
Tom loved your paper. Hope to see you soon
15:35
To Tom Palaima: another great paper! Thank you!
15:35
@ Cynthia and Tom: Thank you for your very interesting papers!
15:35
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ T.G.Palaima: Τον ΚΟΣΜΟΝ άρτι εκόσµησες. Thank you!
15:34
Judith Weingarten:
Tom, great fun but is it an aesthetic sense ... or the bureaucratic mind at work?
15:32
ashlarblocks:
Louise: Great papers from Tom and Cynthia.
15:30
@Cynthia. Many thanks. I still wonder, however, about the erratic overall
appearance created by the inlay. Is it possible that the bits of red and white stone are
actually plugs? Maybe the table was used at some time as a drill surface and it's
being superficially "repaired" to make it useable in a palatial context? Do you think
this is at all possible?
15:29
Good by to you all. Hope to see you next time in the Aegaeum Kosmos !!! Excelent
technical conditions. Amazing and interesting contributions. Wish you luck again,
Marie Louise and Robert !!!
Friday April 23, 2010 15:29 Neculai Bolohan
15:29
@Cynthia. My mail is mann@otenet. gr and I am sending you my paper today.
15:29
15:29
To Cynthia: thank you for the remark, I knew it, but Killen thinks that it is a check
of parafernalia, most of the objects in good state, but not all, before a feast, to repair
the damaged objects.
@ Tom: love your ancient Greek!
15:22
@emily egan: The section of my text on the Pylos stonetable was omitted due to the
technical problems. The table is of variegated marble, and the little holes were
indeed for inlay. Some still retained small red and white stone inlay pieces. The info.
is in Palace of Nestor Volume I.
15:22
Karen Foster:
to Ezra: published paper will have lots of Mesop refs, most relevant of which, I
think, is the Sumerian text about Shulgi's boat. Thanks for thinking of Mari etc.
15:21
The *Guest* was me... having some problems with the technology of my computer!
Sometimes no sound, sometimes the chat collapses... I'm missing a lot here.
15:19
@Lena: Yes I really liked your paper, and I look forward to the full version. Maybe
we could exchange drafts? I am [email protected]
15:19
[Comment From Ezra MarcusEzra Marcus: ]
oops. continuation: boat depicted on the Aghia Triadha sarcophagus.
Friday April 23, 2010 15:19 Ezra Marcus
15:19
15:19
Cynthia, yes this is what I am asking. The devils advocate would say that H2
recorded who was the scribe that originally recorded these items and H2 merely
copied (as he does with some of H21's work)
Thomas, I am very pleased to hear at least your voice. Hope to see you in Athens
15:18
To Karen: another east-west boat "adornment" connection is a reference at Mari to
the production of a precious stone inlaid (model) ka-pi-ta-ri-tu boat, which has been
compared to the "inlaid
15:18
Thank you to all for comments, and to Mary Louise for coming to my rescue. Sorry
for the problems with my presentation. @Carlos I do not think all the objects are
damaged, because the damage is specifically noted in just a couple of cases. Where
not noted, no damage. @Vanghelis: the tables are on Ta 642, 713, 715.
15:17
@Cynthia: I really enjoyed your paper! I wanted to ask: what is your feeling about
the irregularly shaped holes in the surface of the Pylos stone table. Do you think that
they are for inlay even though they appear to have no clear overall design?
15:16 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Please identify yourself byname when posting on the chat
15:16
@Cynthia: I think you're right about the importance of material and would take the
ligatures of material with vessel ideograms as added evidence.
15:16
WHAT A SHOCKING SOUND! .... Marie-Louise, I could clearly hear your
liberating laughter!
15:15
I hope so, Louise. It's been a few years since I have visited the site and given an
evening guest lecture.
15:15
@ Cynthia - great work.
15:15
@Vanghelis: raises the question of whether Pukeqiri is Hand 2 or not! Ta 711 says
this is what Pukeqiri saw. Hard to imagine Hand 2 was not present; this is quite
detailed information to recite if you aren't looking at the pieces.
15:13
To Karen, How could I NOT love reading your paper? It is wonderful and about
lions and griffins, my original subjects! If anyone wants to continue Judith's
suggestion about lions and griffins in seals, I made a catalog that might help, in my
earlier incarnation (diss. Nancy A. Rhyne, The Aegean Animal Style: The Lion,
Griffin, and Sphinx, UNC 1970). Karen, I really enjoyed reading your paper and
love the idea of the Lion Group. Hello to Ben.
15:12
This is VERY belated, but many many thanks to Kristian Kristiansen for reading my
paper yesterday. I was unable to sign onto chat at the time and I want him to know
that I really appreciate his help!
15:12
Cynthia: Thank you very much for your fantastic paper. I am lloking forward to read
your interpretation of po-ro-e-ke, ko-ro-no-we-sa, etc. About the aim of the writing,
what do you think about Killen's proposal (an inventory of damaged objects before a
feasting)?
15:12
Cynthia, thank so much for the information and the insights of your paper. I have to
quote your paper in the published vertion of my paper on gold and ivory pieces on
an (assumed) wooden coffin
15:12
ashlarblocks:
Louise: Hi Ezra, will you be visiting us at Safi this July?
15:12
@Cynthia: I *love* it!
15:11
Super paper; do you assume that scribe 2 was the one who recorded them or do you
think that he copied the info from someone else? What is your view?
15:11
Cynthia, Very much enjoyed your paper. So sorry to miss you at KOSMOS.
15:10
John Younger:
Cynthia: neat gleaning of social information from the scribes' presentation of
information!
15:09
@Louise: Thanks for the info - I shall keep that in mind.
15:09
To Cynthia Shelmerdine: thank you! Always important to see - or not - the
correlations of archaeological material and epigraphic evidence.
15:08
Oh, okay, it's comparative evidence. I asked too soon :)
15:08
Cynthia, why are the cooking & serving pots assumed to be bronze?
15:06
@Vanghelis: due to powerpoint problem it skipped to the next slide; there was
supposed to be a table there with all the information discussed
15:05
Karen Foster:
Many thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions!
15:05
@Karen, talking about dolphins and dolpinoid creatures, have a look at vase from
el-Lisht tomb 879 decorated with dolphins and birds, of problematic origin.
15:05
Cynthia, hope you are really well. Great to hear you. Please send a copy of your list
of tablets for tables as we cannot see the numbers of tablets... [email protected]
15:05
Hello Judith. I am following the lectures intermittently as my kids are home from
day care. I really enjoyed the earlier presentations on loomweights. Hope you are
well.
14:59
ashlarblocks:
@Sabine: a former student, Dave Collard, is writing his PhD on intoxicating
substances at Nottingham, you'll probably find that of greater interest.
14:57
Judith Weingarten:
Ezra. nice to have you aboard!
14:56
Helena Tomas:
Great to hear your voice, Cynthia! Let's e-mail soon about your visit in October. I
was looking forward to discussing it in Copenhagen, but....
Friday April 23, 2010 14:56 Helena Tomas
14:56
Karen Foster:
Query for all: have accepted Epidauros fragment as showing dolphin, but does
anyone think it might be a griffin with crest?
14:56
14:56
@Karen, great paper. Your paper adds on solving the 'mystery' of the presence of
Minoan frescoes at Dab'a.I am 'touching' upon the fresco fleet in my Ph.D thesis,
which is discussed along with the Daba frescoes. Please feel free to contact me if
you need anything: [email protected]
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Karen: wonderful paper. I have a student working on maritime
symbolism. I know your paper will be a valuable addition to her bibliography.
14:56
@ Louise: Looking forward to that article!
14:56
Judith Weingarten:
@Karen. Not sure but it's the largest corpus of images and, if dual groups existed,
they should have left some glyptic traces.
14:56
14:55
As a maritime archaeologist from the Levant (Israel), allow me to express my
appreciation to Karen Polinger Foster for an excellent paper. One point that might be
of interest regarding lionesses and the sea is that already in the Middle Bronze Age,
the lioness chasing a snake, which is an epithet for the maritime deity Asherah,
appears at Tell Daba on cylinder seal (see Aaron Brody's discussion of this
combination along with a depiction of Baal in his book on Canaanite and Phoenician
maritime religion).
Thanks for a stimulating paper Karen and ditto to Nancy's wonderful reading of
multiple papers.
14:55
14:53
Many thanks for your kind words at the beginning of your paper. I have also to
acknowledge the wonderful contribution you have all done over the years. Aegaeum
and the Aegean conferences would simply not have existed without all of you.
Karen Foster:
Judith, neat idea, how would it work?
14:53
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Sabine: Pomegranates and poppy capsules are very similar in appearance,
and it is not always possible to distinguish them in ancient art. What does
differentiate them is the pomegranate crown, which is thinner, higher and with
sharper points, while the poppy crown is a low, broad ring with rounded edges on it.
It's not always this clearcut. Sometimes color or the presence of scoring marks to
extract the latex come into play. I actually have an extensive discussion of this in an
article under submission.
14:52
Judith Weingarten:
Postulating griffin and lion groups might be testable via seals/seal impressions....
14:51
Karen: Wonderful paper. And lovely to pull in Egypt and Mesopotamia for
comparanda. Good luck with the book.
14:50
Karen Foster:
Nancy, thanks SO much for your beautiful reading of my paper!
14:50
@Oliver: Hi boss!
14:49
Karen thank you for a most exciting paper, I think there is a lot to be done with boat
iconography. Very inspiring
14:49
Karen, What a pleasure to listen to your assessments of boat ornament!
14:49
[Comment From Bryan BurnsBryan Burns: ]
Many thanks to Nancy T. for her smooth and *tireless* reading of so many papers!
Friday April 23, 2010 14:49 Bryan Burns
14:48
Sorry for asking about the poppy bud. Obviously I missed a key part of Louises
paper. Unfortunately I have problems with the sound of my laptop...!
14:48
@ Cynthia: Hi, Lefty!
14:48
14:48
To Karen Polinger Foster: wonderful paper! It is wonderful how the knowledge of
Near East and Egypt may help us towards a better understanding of aspects of
Aegean culture.
Cynthia: my email is [email protected]
14:48
Jane Johnsen:
Cynthia Selmerdines presentation will have vocal addition by Marie Louise Nosch
14:44
I'm on line and happy to answer questions about my paper. Also someone in
Copenhagen is going to have to read out two sections where the Powerpoint
narration skipped (Microsoft doesn't like Macs!)
14:44
[Comment From Vasif SahogluVasif Sahoglu: ]
Congragulations organizers for making this very interesting meeting online.
Unfortunately I was stranded in London and struggling to come back to Ankara all
this ime so missed most of the meeting. I will try to catch up. All the best, Vasıf.
Friday April 23, 2010 14:44 Vasif Sahoglu
14:44
Julie and Louise, thank you, great work
14:43
Louise, you are welcome! Sorry for my extra-terrestrial Austrian pidgin-English
accent!
Friday April 23, 2010 14:43 Fritz
14:43
@Louise: How do you tell apart an opium poppy pod from a pomegranate? Opium
would have been an import to Crete, and from what I have seen becomes popular as
decorative motive mostly in Postpalatial times.
14:43
@Jacke, I'll have to look it up and will let you know. what's your email?
14:43
Jane Johnsen:
The last set of papers will be presented on Monday in the same way, including chat,
as has been the case for the past three days. The programme for monday will be
posted at the latest by midnight tonight.
14:40
@Jacke,
14:40
@Jane: Does that mean not all papers are being presented?
Friday April 23, 2010 14:40 Josephine Verduci
14:39
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Jo, the dog belonged to some German tourists and I had to have a photo of
him because I have wire haired terriers
14:36
@Louise: I love the last picture!
14:35
ashlarblocks:
Louise: Thanks everyone! John, I took down the link, just the kind of thing I'm
looking for. The capital from Knossos is an opium pod. The stone seat without back
I showed is from Hala Sultan Tekke, Cyprus. @Alexandra: e-mail me and I'll send
you a copy: [email protected]
14:35
Jane Johnsen:
Dear Josephine. There are no sessions or presentations scheduled for tomorrow
14:32
[Comment From Kathrin MüllerKathrin Müller: ]
Thanks for this very interesting conference! I am glad about having the opportunity
listen to the papers without being at Kopenhagen!
Friday April 23, 2010 14:32 Kathrin Müller
14:32
@Louise Hitchcock: The decorative element from Knossos, which you have shown
more than on time in your paper, remind me very much of a cutted poppy bud,
drained for the euphorigenic and narcotic meconium (poppy juice). Any connection?
14:32
@Judith: I think that's likely. If we were able to differentiate sources, it would be
interesting to see if there's any correlation between aesthetic qualities and contextual
cues to class - I like Walter Muller's approach to differentiating value in metals and
wonder if we could do something comparable for stone.
14:32
[Comment From Valia PapanastasopoulouValia Papanastasopoulou: ]
@Louise: Great paper, Louise, I really enjoyed it.
Friday April 23, 2010 14:32 Valia Papanastasopoulou
14:32
@Marie-Louise: you're most probably over worked I'm sure - but is there a schedule
for tomorrow that will be available soon
14:32
14:32
Hi Louise, I really enjoyed your paper! I'm interested in this separate stone seat
(without a back) from Knossos that you showed. Is this the one from the Throne
Room or something different? (my computer froze for a second so missed this bit...)
@Kosta: yesterday I meant tangless mirror, sorry!
14:32
@Louise: congratulation, I liked your paper!
14:32
14:32
@Louise: Congratulations on the wonderful view of the architectural adornment
inter-influences in the Eastern Mediterranean. I really enjoyed your paper. It made
me travel all around the Eastern Mediterranean in 20 minutes, without the need of
catching a flight : )
Very interesting paper, Louise! Thanks!
14:32
14:32
@Louise: congrats on a great paper Louise! Was that your dog I saw in a photo? I
find the the issue of emulation of prestige items with the past as opposed to that of
other cultures of great interest.
Louise, great range of parallels and observations.
14:32
14:32
@Louise: I can’t believe this… I had an urgent phone call from work just when your
paper was starting, which I had to take and I just missed all of your paper. Is there a
chance of getting something from you (e.g. summary) – I’d really like to hear what
you had to say.
Great, Louise. Glad to hear more on the International Style again!
14:32
Cynthia, Louise: I don't think the ancients would have mixed them up, myself. Are
the ribbed and fluted columns used together without a pattern in their arrangement?
14:31
John Younger:
Louise: great variety! and good comparanda from Cyprus & Philistia. Spolia: also
the Elgin plaques from Atreus!:
http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/handle/1808/4404
14:26
Judith Weingarten:
Great paper, Louise. I do like 'Isochrestic Variation' and intend to apply it.
14:26
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Fritz, Thank you so much for reading my paper, and to Marie-Louise and
the other organizers, thank you for facilitating these presentations from afar!
14:26
Judith Weingarten:
@Julie, aesthetics yes, but there is also the problem of availability at different times,
e.g. amethyst gets lighter (poorer quality) and lapis lazuli is almost always second
rate quality (by Near Eastern standards). Carnelian, on the other hand, might simply
be from different sources over time.
14:19
14:18
@Judith: sorry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been: the reason it matters whether
Minoans differentiated kinds of carnelian is that different sources may have different
aesthetics (i.e., Indian flame-shot stuff).
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Cynthia: Noted, I will go into more detail in the footnotes :-)
14:18
Sorry, hit the wrong button.... Ribbed columns are the stone version of a bundle of
reeds tied together. I'n not sure what the origin of fluting is.
14:17
@ Jackie and Louise: both convex and concave impressions preserved for columns
in Palace of Nestor/Pylos
14:17
Louise. The ribbing represents a bundle of reeds tied togerher
14:15
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Jackie: point taken, but do we know that ancients would've made the same
distinction?
14:14
Can we get the difference between fluted and ribbed straight. The Zoser columns are
ribbed, not fluted. Fluting is what you find on Doric columns, with concave curves
in profile coming to a point. Ribbed is when the profiles are convex.
14:11
@Anna Lucia: I wish I could. I don't personally feel confident in my abilities to date
seals stylistically to make that kind of distinction, and context is so problematic for
seals, that I have felt obligated to paint with a broad brush.
14:11
@Judith: because I think it's gorgeous, I tended to think of it as being rare, until I
started making a list of artifacts, at which point I started to realize it's everywhere. I
suspect that different kinds/colors may have been differentiated - the flame-shot
stuff versus browner versus orangey - but without Munsells, I can't really be sure.
14:11
Kostas it is great the hear from you to. Your presentation yesterday was very
interesting.
14:06
very interesting, july, thank you, I wonder whether you can distinguish in terms of
aestethic preferences between LM IIIA and IIIB
Friday April 23, 2010 14:06 anna lucia dagata
14:04
To Julie: My pleasure, it was really very interesting and I have learned a lot
14:04
Judith Weingarten:
@Julie, thanks for that paper. I suspect that carnelian (wherever it came from) was
not too expensive. It's very widely used in the Near East and Egypt too. A big Indian
export industry?
14:03
Thank you for the very interesting paper Julie!
14:03
John Younger:
Nice paper, Julie -- I always love your statistics!
14:03
Kostas Paschalidis:
Great to hear to a study focusing on the aesthetic value of an impressive (and
common) material instead of its socio-religious connotations! Eva, so good to see
you and hear you!
14:02
Many thanks to Eva Andersson Strand for reading my paper.
14:02
Nice job, Julie! Really interesting ideas!
14:00
@Jacke et al: my email is [email protected]
14:00
Many thanks, Julie.
14:00
I believe we should express our thanks to those able guys!
14:00
It is amazing what it takes both behind and in front of the scene to produce a live
broadcast!
14:00
14:00
@Sabine. You are right and I strongly believe that the Theran crocus are the
Autumns ones. I just write a paper on SMEA 2009. And I must refer to the splendid
paper of Susan Ferrence on this topic!
Friday April 23, 2010 14:00 Lucia Alberti
Julie: Someone else looking at use! We have to talk.
14:00
Dear all
14:00
@Karen: that sounds interesting, thanks!
14:00
@Anya-that's a great idea-thank you!
13:56
John Younger:
High tech! Thanks for the photos! It's always good to know that there are many
people involved in this great enterprise!
13:54
Annette Borrell:
Dear all - we have now uploaded som photos "behind the scenes" from our producer
team in the control room. Please view this link:
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/controlroom
13:50
Karen Foster:
Julie, you might find Dominique Collon's article on the wearing of seals in Mesop
useful, seem to be lots of parallels.
13:48
Karen, this is fascinating, the differentiation between early and late seals.
13:48
to Marsia--many thanks
Friday April 23, 2010 13:48 carole gillis
13:47
@Carole: [email protected]. Please tell him that I am sending you.
13:47
@Lucia: The spring crocuses are extremely rare in Crete and flower onlz high in the
mountains.
13:47
To Elizabeth....that is truly a problem....maybe with infra-red photography?
13:45
to all --thanks for all the good information on murex color. Marsia--do you have an
email address?
13:44
@Anya: Could the Lady of the Landscape have held something not preserved that
would represent summer? I'd like to think so!
13:44
13:44
@Carol, I know that Ilia Anossov (fresco school-please google it) has experimented
with painting frescoes with 'Minoan painting techniques. I have contacted him in the
past for the Dab'a frescoes and I am sure he will be able to answer some of the more
practical questions.
Pylos use of murex purple paint in the megaron, as opposed to other rooms, I think.
Highlighting its special nature-Friday April 23, 2010 13:44 Cynthia Shelmerdine
13:44
Thanks Elizabeth I am @ [email protected]
13:44
Speaking about seasons is quite complicate. The crocus which has therapethical
effects appears in Autumn, but there are many other crocuses also during the Spring
13:43
@Carole: There is a trmendous amount of murex purple paint on the paiintings from
Pylos which Hariklia Brekoulaki is studying (for example, the Lyre Player). So I
think that as fragments are cleaned and re-studied, we may find more, indicating that
as a paint, it has good "lasting poer."
13:43
Elizabeth thank you for your paper and those wonderful depictions of the older
ladies! Just an impression....but I have the feeling that not seasons are depicted
...summmer seems to be missing I believe....all others are there I think! What does
that mean?? Food for thought!
13:43
Hi Elizabeth - Great paper!
13:42
Thanks, Elizabeth! Very nice paper!
13:42
13:42
Hi Marcia! Yes, I believe that flowers which bloom in diffeent seasons are
deliberately shown in order to evoke different tines of year, perhaps having
implications as to when the rituals take place.
Thanks, Elizabeth! Very nice!
13:42
@John-Thank you! Your work was obviously a huge help.
13:40
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Carole, I don't know about paint, but Ann Brysbaert has written on the use
of murex shells in the tempering of plaster, which is interesting.
13:40
Karen Foster:
Hi again from New Haven. On murex colors, I seem to recall that when Pat
McGovern was working on murex, he did some experiments with it as paint.
13:39
@Vanghelis: It's from 'Youth and Age in the Theran Frescoes'- I can send you the
exact reference when I am at my office.
13:39
13:38
@ Elizabeth. I enjoyed your paper very much. Perhaps the figures are represented in
different seasons - a broader temporal field than recording a single instance of ritual
or activity... hence the different flowering seasons represented in their adornment.
John Younger:
Elizabeth: fascinating presentation! Many thanks!
13:37
Elisabeth great paper. Do you have the quote on Ellen's paper saying about the
division of the old and young in Xeste III?
13:37
Does anyone know how practically one would/could paint with 'murex' color? How
permanent would it be in a plaster etc. environment? how would it be mixed?
13:37
@Vanghelis: we haven’t applied to the IMF yet, we have just gone to the ECB.
Either way, forget about dogs.
13:35
13:34
@Elizabeth: The N- and S- wall ladies seem to belong to the same time of year now, when roses and lilies flower. A necklace of saffron could - if at all - only made
of fresh ones, available only in autumn.
Vanghelis, I am nearly convinced that we were co-students in Athens, are you from
Corinth by any chance? Do email me (google me so you trace my email).
13:34
@Schallin: Your paper is very interesting. It casts a new light on the place of e.g. the
small objects in a high status building.
13:32
@Schallin: How do you classify this interesting combination of glass bead core,
gold covering, again with details set off by glass?
13:32
Thank you for the refernce, Judith!
13:30
Judith Weingarten:
Torque-like necklaces on some Zakro Master Bird-Ladies (e.g. CMS II.7 132-33).
13:28
Some wonderful pictures of frescoes... : )
13:26
The news is that Greece is going to the IMF today...so soon I may be able to afford a
dog too! Only kidding.
13:25
It seems to me that one of the two fragments of relief plaques from Midea has a
representation of a centaur.
13:23
[Comment From Eleni KonstantinidiEleni Konstantinidi: ]
Hallo, anne-Louise, thank you for your synthetic paper! I am sorry, I did not hear
very well at some point: the gold-plated glass bead you showed, did you say that the
leaf was made in a mould and then the details were added? As far as I can tell, thin
gold leaf was beaten out of a plate, it was not cast, I have tried it with a technician
friend of mine, it is not possible to cast it.
Friday April 23, 2010 13:23 Eleni Konstantinidi
13:21
to Ann-Louise Schallin: But you do have LH III C Late pottery (as bad as the phase
is defined) from Midea, without architecture, haven't you?
13:21
Jane Johnsen:
Hi all. Currently we have 102 people active online
13:19
John Younger:
So great to see you, Nancy!
13:11
That is the advantage of cats - mine come and go since the morning (mainly sitting
with me), obviously liking the constant voices from the computer.
13:11
I'm glad to hear it! I agree - this is a really great idea!
13:06
Emily: Hi! It is, thank you. Having a great time here.
13:06
Yes my dog is happy for the break too!
13:03
John Younger:
Ute: Many thanks!
13:02
Jane Johnsen:
We are now back on track
13:02
13:00
Ute Günkel-Maschek:
@ John: Kypraiou 1997 seems to refer to: Greek jewellery : 6,000 years of tradition
: Thessaloniki, Villa Bianca, 21 December 1997 - 21 February 1998 ; Thessaloniki,
Cultural Capital of Europe 1997 / Ministry of Culture. Exhibition Greek Jewellery,
6,000 Years of Tradition. [General editor, Evangelia Kypraiou; textual editing,
Diana Zaphiropoulou Maria Kazakou ; translation, David Hardy, Alex Doumas]
Athens: Archaeological Receipts Fund, 1997. - 455 p. : col. ill., map
Friday April 23, 2010 13:02 Ute Günkel-Maschek
ashlarblocks:
Louise: the break was perfect for playing rope toss with the dog.
12:59
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @John and others: please e-mail your comments to Dora at
[email protected] Thanks!
12:51
The break is perfect - just enough time to make toast.
12:47
John Younger:
Nice to have a break! (good time to walk dogs)
12:46
John: Sounds great. Many thanks for the reference! The last part of my paper (which
unfortunately wasn't able to be read because of time) deals with the function of the
jars in their "dressed" state. Berggren's views should be really useful.
12:46
Dora and Lilian have done a really good job in this paper, as always. I happened to
be a student of Lilian in 2000-2004, in Athens. She shared with me her enthusiasm
about archaeology and the more 'practical' aspects of it.
12:46
KosmosAdmin2:
The broadcast is back on in 15 mins with Ann-Louise Schallin's paper :)
12:45
John Younger:
Dora & Lilian: very interesting approach! What's the reference to Kypraiou 1997? (I
couldn't find it in Nestor).
12:44
Kostas Paschalidis:
Kalimera from Athens! This was such an interesting overview of jewellery!
12:42
and Hi to Jacke from Athens! I hope your back has recovered since I last saw you!
12:42
We welcome Abby Lillethun from New Jersey who arrives last night in Copenhagen
on a bus from Athens...She will give her paper tonight.
12:42
@John: Sounds really interesting.
12:42
John Younger:
Emily: Her study is very wide ranging (all sorts of periods & cultures).
12:39
John: No, but it sounds really interesting! I'll have a look soon. Does she deal with
pottery of all periods?
12:39
12:39
Since we are now ahead of time, there will be a short break in the streaming after
this paper. We continue again at 1.00 (Danish time) with Ann-Louise Schallin's
paper read by Robert Laffineur.
@Vanghelis: That's right. Very interesting point.
12:37
John Younger:
Emily Egan & Sabine: Do you know this fascinating article?: Berggren, Kristina,
"Why Embroider Pottery?" Journal of Prehistoric Religion 7 (1993) 8-25.
12:37
@Emily: Interesting idea - may be they would do both in the actual ritual...
12:36
John: Paper sent to your email address.
12:36
12:36
Its been a few years since I last worked on hieroglyphs but I think I am right that in
Egypt the seated ideogram represents a child. A 'seated' figure also exists on the
Geneva lentoid CMS II3 261
Marsia. Yes, it is. I had fun researching it, too.
12:35
@ Jörg and Richard: Thanks to both for your answer as it may affect the way we reexamine our recent conceptions of ambiguous figures in iconography.
12:35
Hi-checking to see if I'm online.....
12:33
@Jacke: Is this paper the one on JAEI 1-2? I have accessed it - very enlightening
paper.
12:33
Hi Sabine - I just wanted to respond to your question about my paper yesterday. I
was having computer trouble and couldn't participate in the chat! Yes, I do think that
the Palace Style Jars could have been ritually "dressed" - although I think that the
dressing was done with paint rather than real cloth.
12:33
@ Vanghelis: the existing chronologies, Dietz, Graziadio, Laffineur and others. It
does not seem that my reconstruction would change much in terms of artifact
chronologies.
12:33
Hi - I hope I am online now:)
12:31
John Younger:
Jörg: the prototype for Linear A VIR+KA appears on a sealstone: CMS I, no. 414
(MM II: Malia Workshop) -- the figure appears seated (!).
12:31
@Emily: Right here.
12:30
Hej Jane (test)
12:30
12:30
@Lilian Καραλή: Κρίµα που δεν µπορώ να σας ξαναδώ τώρα στην πατρίδα µου. Με
θυµάστε, νοµίζω...; Πέρασαν πέντε χρόνια από τότε που ακολούθησα το µάθηµά
σας στο Καποδιστριακό (σεισµούς στην προϊστορική Κρήτη).
Greetings! Hi Vanghelis! Am I late? I was taking notes on the previous papers -excellent papers, tons of learning!
12:30
@ Mary Jane: Thank you for getting up that early! I have to think about
*akimbo*...
12:30
Hi, is Sabine Beckmann there?
12:27
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: My colleague Dora Constantinidis is grateful to Tobias for
reading her joint paper. She has put in a long day of work today and may not be
monitoring the conference at the moment. You can e-mail questions to her at:
[email protected]
12:25
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Anaya Sarpaki : γειά σας από Αθήνα κυρία Σαρπάκη ! Η κίνηση στην
Αλεξάνδρας δεν µε άφησε να ακούσω την ανακοίνωσή σας χτες...ελπίζω να τη
διαβάσω σύντοµα !
Friday April 23, 2010 12:25 Sophia Vakirtzi
12:24
John Younger:
Jacke Philips: I very much would like to see your paper. I know that amethyst beads
are abundant (they contrast markedly with the seals). The publisher of the the
Corinth tholos will be Iota Kasimi (a preliminary publication of the tholos -- but not
seals -- appeared in the acts of the Loutra conference in Spring 2009). I am aware
that amethyst production in Egypt may have stopped in MK times -- so I have
played with the idea of one or a few shipments in MM times. But I welcome the
expertise of others on this!
12:23
Petya really good to hear your voice. I am fascinated by your analysis of the burial
successions in the grave circle. Have you got more on that?
12:21
12:21
@Alexandra Alexandri: I agree with Jorg, I can't think of an example where VIR
was used to represent a group including a female (or MUL used for a group
including a male). However, OVISm is sometimes used to represent a number of
sheep including both males and females.
@ John: I am no expert in Linear A. At the moment, I am not convinced that in
Linear A we have a clear indication of gender on any variants of the logogram
12:21
@Cynthia : How about "soldier"?
12:17
@ Jörg: Great paper!
12:17
@ Alexandra: I don*t think that there is a single example in Linear B where one of
the logograms may stand for person
12:15
12:14
Thanks to John for more information on matching seals. And @Jörg, I really like
your idea that the 'seated man' ideogram is actually striding. Does anyone have
iconographic suggestions about what that pose would convey on a tablet? Different
from the regular ideogram? Palmer thought it (*103) signified 'crafstman'; Lejeune
suggested it could mean 'slave'!
Thank you all for your encouraging comments
12:12
John Younger:
Jörg: very interesting! Do I understand you correctly? In Linear A, you do not see
VIR+313 or VIR+KA as gendered?
12:12
12:11
@ Jörg Weilhartner: Very interesting paper! Could you say that one (man or
woman) of the Linear-B signs can also stand for “person” (as in modern signs, for
exits, danger etc., where the stick figure –an abstraction of the male body- stands for
human)?
Alessandro Greco:
It's a very interesting and good interpretation, that can open new fields of research
also for other ideograms. Compliments
12:11
12:11
Jörg, great paper! I am up at 6 AM to see it :) Coffee isn't even boiling yet! Is it
possible that the womens' crossed arms in the Linear B tablets and figurines indicate
that their arms are "akimbo"?
@Jorg: Nice Paper !!
12:11
[Comment From Angelika BaierAngelika Baier: ]
Very nice presentation! We have to talk about that when you`re back in Vienna :-)
Friday April 23, 2010 12:11 Angelika Baier
12:10
Judith: Yes, very. There are some from early Dynasty 13, but after that the mines
apparently played out. This was the point of the paper I mentioned to John below.
Amethyst appears regularly after that only in the Roman period.
12:07
@Jörg: This is absolutely not my field of research, but the comparisons of
logograms with the pictoral images you show appear to be very persuasive.
Interesting!
12:07
Judith Weingarten:
John, Jacke, aren't amethyst seals fairly rare even in Egypt after Dyn XII?
12:05
Indeed, a remarkable contrast of iconography and ideograms
12:05
You guys must be really proud, not only you have turned adversity into a fabulous
event, but also your papers are extremely useful and thougth provoking. Well done.
12:00
What a fantastic combination of ideograms/logograms and iconography, Jörg!
12:00
ashlarblocks:
Louise H. @John: I suspect more than 1 Minoan mason working on the mainland. I
discuss mechanism for the movement of builders in an article in Ancient West and
East
11:59
thank you, sasha! i'm very happy to have finally logged on.
11:59
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Eva Andersson Strand : thank you
11:58
Somehow I cannot see my comment from before, Pietro bravo, very very interesting
paper. Want to know more about this.
11:58
11:58
This paper is given by the real author, Jörg Weilhartner, who fortunately managed to
get here by train from Austria. He can answer your questions and receive your
comments here.
[Comment From Ioannis IliopoulosIoannis Iliopoulos: ]
hello to all from Patras. @John, thank u for the presentation. Are all these seels
recognised macroscopically from the point of view of mineralogy?
Friday April 23, 2010 11:58 Ioannis Iliopoulos
11:57
11:57
To Sohpia, I really do not know, it might be possible and as Carole said wool is very
fat and can be used for polishing. However I do not think that any analyses have
been made
John Younger:
Thanks, all, for your kind comments. JW: since stylistically, both the lapis and the
"porcelaine" (clay) seal seem to me to be the same, so I assume the same artist.
11:57
11:56
Sophia Vakirtzi:
this trait is very distinctive especially in large conical whorls from Skala Sotiros.
Wondering if maybe it should be examined as a fiber criterion, in case the
size/"polishing" trait coexistance is certified in the yet unexamined sample
I would suggest to CTR a practical experiment for use wear over burnished/polished
surface, withour (also economic at least mine) help, obviously
11:56
Thank you John, great paper. We should get in contact about amethyst in Greece. I
recently wrote a paper on just that (all, not just seals), but in an Egyptian publication
so you likely haven't seen it. I can send you a pdf. It is amazing just how much
amethyst is in Greece. The Corinth one is new to me, so thanks for that too, but
didn't get the names of the people publishing the tomb.
11:56
@John. Great paper.
11:56
Greatful
11:56
Congrats, John. You always give us food for thought.
11:56
John, Jo and I are very sorry about some mixing up between ms, ppt and voice, but it
eventually worked.
11:55
Judith Weingarten:
@ John, one quick question. If the seals are Cretan mfr, who made the clay copy of
the scratching dog?
11:54
Thanks John, great paper.
11:54
ashlarblocks:
Louise H. @John, great paper but very dense - lots to think about.
11:54
@John. Thank u John for the vivid paper. Wonderful job!
11:53
@John, I have really enjoyed your paper. All these lovely pictures of seals!!!
11:53
11:53
@§Vakirtzi. This was also a possible I considered /the polishin as the result of the
thread, but in my cases they are biconical, and a homogeneous polishing seem
unprobable.
Judith Weingarten:
We should talk about this, John, but it's a little difficult while so much else is going
on.
11:53
John Younger:
M-L: that went well! barking dogs and all! Thanks!
11:53
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Thank you professor Militello
11:52
In some of my spindle whorls I have traces of something as a brush. Moreover,
"whirling" traces (of the burnishing tool?)are also present
11:52
A warm welcome to emily from Aθήνα!
11:51
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Sacha : Thank you very much. I would also like to discuss decorated whorls from
Kastanas with you, I think i found an equivalent of the Kastanas at Skala Sotiros. I
presented it at AEMTH this March. Please feel free to e-mail me.
[email protected]
11:50
11:49
Hi, everyone. Couldn't make it ealier today and will probably have to leave eralier,
but a conference where you can drop in for just two hours, if this is the time that you
have is great. :)
Friday April 23, 2010 11:50 Annette Pohlke
hello from athens! after some technical problems i have finally managed to get chat
working. this is so exciting!
11:48
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Sacha : Thank you very much for this insight ! Hard and smooth object..do these
wear traits have a distinctive direction ?
11:48
ashlarblocks:
Louise: I like the dog soundtrack, reminds me of my house
11:47
@Sophia: ooops.... send too early. There are clearly smoothing traces, running along
the radial surface of the whorls, i.e. from the hole to the largest diameter.
11:45
Thank you Eva for making it so clear to non-weavers....
11:45
@Sophia: most of the "polished" spindle whorls from Bronze/Iron Age Kastanas
that I have investigated clearly show that they have indeed been smoothed with a
hard, smooth object (very likely a stone), which is indicated by
11:43
Thank you Marie-Louise It is great to be home and thank you John and Sacha for
your nice comments
11:43
We can hear your dogs, John!
11:42
continuing on this thread that Sophia raised..could the oils in the wool ahve an effect
in this 'burnishing'? Have any analyses been made of the clay fabric by the holes?
11:39
@Ida : Thanks. I shall try and make one of the heavy Cretan Kermes oak wood. If it
works that would possibly explain why in some areas no whorls are found where
one would expect them.
11:39
John Younger:
Please forgive the barking, outraged dogs in the background! I had to lock them out
of the house in order to record this.
11:39
Great to hear your paper, John!
11:38
11:35
Sophia Vakirtzi:
to spinning experimentalists : regarding polished whorl surfaces . Could this
"polishing" result from the friction of the accumulated thread on the surface of the
whorl - of course after extended period of usage ? (i am referring to the flat surface
of (large) conical whorls)
@Eva: A very successful and impressive summary of so many years of work. Thank
you very much!
11:35
[Comment From IDAIDA: ]
oups - send it off too soon. It was carved as a long stick with a thickness in the end. I
think she made it work, but not as a drop spindle. she was "shaking" it.....
Friday April 23, 2010 11:35 IDA
11:34
John Younger:
Eva Strand: very nice overview!
11:32
[Comment From IDAIDA: ]
Linda Olufson has tested one from 3oo bc found in Denmark...
Friday April 23, 2010 11:32 IDA
11:32
Thank you to Eva and Jo for coming "home" to CTR from London in time to give
their great papers.
11:31
@ Manuela: many thanks
11:30
Does any of you dealing with spinning here know, if there ever were wooden
spindles for the leightweight variations?
11:27
11:27
[Comment From emanuela albertiemanuela alberti: ]
Buongiorno to all of you! Yes, I think it is very important to not forget that our main
aim is to understand something of the societies which are involved in the textile
production and the role the latter had in these societies...Many thanks for your paper,
Pietro! sorry, I did not see the previous ones....
Friday April 23, 2010 11:27 emanuela alberti
@Carole, Marie Louise and Valeri. Thank you
11:27
Bravo Pietro, extremely interesting paper. Great insights
11:26
@CTR: I'm getting sentimental, seeing all these picture sfrom CTR (and Lejre).
Wish I could be there with you know....miss you so much!
11:26
[Comment From Maurizio Del FreoMaurizio Del Freo: ]
Good morning from a rainy Rome
Friday April 23, 2010 11:26 Maurizio Del Freo
11:26
11:25
@malgorzata. Thank you for pointing at this. It can be that the maximum diameter
was less protected, but this can accentuate the use wears, not create them. In any
case I will consider this possibility better
John Younger:
Pietro: here's an image of the stele: http://people.ku.edu/~jyounger/misc/Larisa.jpg - I'll provide a publication reference later.
11:19
@ Pietro Militello: a thorough analysis! Missing Phaistos so much...
Friday April 23, 2010 11:19 Valeria Lenuzza
11:19
11:19
Thank you Ida. The powerpoint was the old one and the thanks were missing. To
John, thank you, canyou give the reference? To Vakirtzi, no central perforated sherd,
strangely
@John: Send some of the rain over here - we would love to have some more for our
gardens and fields before summer hits
11:19
11:18
It still amazes me how much can be understood not only about weaving and craft
production but about the society as a whole--these excellent three papers are perfect
examples. Congratulations to all three of you, Margarita, Jo and Pietro.
Pietro, I like the emphasis on yarn/thread as a valuable commodity. We tend to
speak only of textiles and to forget the yarn.
11:18
@KosmosAdmin2 (ML): Not that it makes a big difference, but - in order to correct
the statistics - I was online yesterday (Wednesday) with 2 PC's: one for showing the
full screen slides, and one for the program and the chat window.
11:18
@Pietro Militello – Very interesting paper! Interesting observations on burnished
spindle whorls. I wonder whether signs of wear depend on the quality of clay/firing
or rather regularity of use. At Tiryns signs of use on the EBA spindle whorls are not
at all so common.
11:16
John Younger:
Pietro: your idea of spun wool as gifts finds support in the Classical period, too: the
stele from Larisa, for example.
11:16
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Pietro Militello : Thank you for this paper. Any circular, centrally perforated
potsherds recorded? (regardless if you consider them spindle whorls or not)
11:10
KosmosAdmin2:
The first day, Wednesday, there were 99 online.
We have not yet received the statistics for yesterday, but I believe were were more.
Yours ML
11:07
11:06
Is there - just for fun - a possibility to number people following the conference? I
wonder if there are not many more than there would have been present in
Kopenhagen originally.
John Younger:
M-L: Yay! JW: it's raining here too (stooopid volcano!)
11:05
KosmosAdmin2:
Goodmorning John! Wee look forward to your paper with recorded voice. Yours
ML
11:05
Judith Weingarten:
Good morning, John, from Tuscany; raining today.
11:04
John Younger:
Good morning everyone! It's 4 am here in Kansas (the other Oz).
11:04
Good morning from Chios, Greece. Excellent papers! Great job! Congratulations!
11:03
[Comment From Jo CutlerJo Cutler: ]
Many thanks Sacha!
Friday April 23, 2010 11:03 Jo Cutler
11:01
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: Wonderful papers, excellent conference!
11:01
Alessandro Greco:
Good morning from Padova, Italy
11:00
@Jo: I can only repeat my congrats, previously given to Margarita: Very, very
interesting paper. Can't wait to read your article!
10:59 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Judith Weingarten] Yes - you're right . It turned out a success, and we're
all very happy for you who are out there in the rest of the world. Annette
10:59 Judith Weingarten:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] No problem. This whole conference is so fabulous -and I would have missed it otherwise. (Reply Privately)
10:58
Louise in Melbourne AUS with piza and coke on Friday evening at 6.38 pm and me
in Atlanta at 4.38 am in Atlanta USA. What a time spread for KOSMOS! Is there
anyone in California to stretch it further?
10:57 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Judith Weingarten] Judith - now it came up twice:) My fault... Annette
10:56
Hi, Angelos! Evcharisto poly!
10:56
@ Valeria Lenuzza. Ciao! I think we need to rethink all the effects of the Santorini
eruption!
10:54
Judith Weingarten:
EH IIB Geraki (Lakonia) impression of textile fragment of tabby weave, possibly
weft-faced, probably linen -- although there are no contemporary spindle whorls or
loom weights on the site. (Resending comment. Apologies if duplicated)
10:53 Guest:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Will do. (Reply Privately)
10:53 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Judith Weingarten] Dear Judith - I cannot process your comment. Could
you please forward it again? Annette
10:52
@Fritz. Greetings from Athens. I enjoyed your paper very much yesterday. Great
analysis and comments...
10:50
@ Lucia Alberti: ciao! Did you see how wonderful Kosmos works, despite of the
volcano?!
10:49
Judith Weingarten:
EH IIB Geraki (Lakonia) impression of textile fragment of tabby weave, possibly
weft-faced, probably linen -- although there are no contemporary spindle whorls or
loom weights on the site.
10:42
@ Margarita - wonderful paper.
10:42
@Margarita: Very, very interesting paper. Thank you so much. Can't wait to read
your article!
10:42
BUON GIORNO from Rome! And thanks for everything! You have turned a crisis
into a great opportunity for the Aegean KOSMOS!
10:42
Fine margareta, thank you. Some questions after for the cylindrical loom-weights
10:38
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: Now settled in with pizza and coke.
10:36
10:36
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Spring mating dances were still happening in the Pomakoi villages in Thrace, at
least in 1996 when i visited the area, the girls wearing beautiful black and white
costumes with red aprons.
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Fritz, Many thanks, I'm blushing :-)
10:34
Good morning everyone!
Friday April 23, 2010 10:34 Katherina Aslanidou
10:34
Goodmorning, Robin!
10:34
Thank you, Louise! Everything is clear. AND: congratulations in advance! Excellent
paper!
10:33
@Elizabeth: Until the middle of the 20th century Cretans would still have dances on
threshing floors after the end of harvest work - I have been told many couples met
there.
10:33
Judith Weingarten:
@Elizabeth, some Minoan Bird-Women images (on seals, sealings) do suggest
'fertility' with large breasts but many do not, while some winged human-bird hybrids
don't show breasts at all and can't be sexed. Also, there are Bird-Men, though fewer.
10:30
[Comment From Robin HäggRobin Hägg: ]
Greetings from Lund, Sweden
Friday April 23, 2010 10:30 Robin Hägg
10:25
10:24
@Elizabeth: A very interesting and miscellaneous paper - as usually. Thank you for
expanding our horizons so convincingly! Unfortunately, however, I have failed to
take a closer look at your slides with images of a clothed figure from Sitagroi.
Where can I look up this drawing?
Another good morning from Athens. Enjoy Day 3.
10:23
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: @Fritz: Good-morning & Thanks for reading my paper later today.
Numbers in bold, in parenthesis, i.e. (1), (2), etc. refer to my numbered ppt slides
and indicate a slide change. Other things in parentheses are footnotes not yet
converted to Aegaeum style and should be ignored. If you have questions about any
pronunciations, e-mail me: [email protected]
10:21
10:21
Goodmorning dear colleagues. Today we will broadcast 27 papers. please see the
web site for the program, it was updated this morning several times. On Monday we
will broadcast another 18 papers. We cannot accept more papers. Thank you for
your great contributions. Remember that the publication gives you more space and
time for develloping the argument. Yours Robert and Marie-Louise
to Dora Constantinidis: Tipota... It is a very interesting approach!
10:20
Sorry, the guest from Birmingham campus was me. Forgot to log in. Very
interesting paper.
10:20
Chairete from Crete! This is a most amazing paper - very convincing!
10:20
Good morning to all Kosmos participants from a sunny Oropos!
10:19
Kaliméra everybody!
10:19
Good morning and Kalimera from Copenhagen!
10:18
KosmosAdmin2:
Dear Celine - you need to reload the page:)
regards from Annette
10:16
Congratulations ... the audio problem seems solved! In contrast to previous days you
can now hear every sound loud and clear.
10:16
Good morning from Rome!
10:16
Good morning from the University of Birmingham UK. I am ready to take lots of
notes.
10:05
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: Good morning everyone from Melbourne where it's evening
10:04
Dzień dobry from Warsaw!
10:03
Judith Weingarten:
Good morning all in Copenhagen and around the world.
09:53
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Kalimera from Athens ! Geia sou Dora !
09:53
[Comment From Kristina ÄlvebyKristina Älveby: ]
Impressing! Wishing you a good last day!
Friday April 23, 2010 09:53 Kristina Älveby
09:53
[Comment From Sander BrabanderSander Brabander: ]
Good morning everyone!
Friday April 23, 2010 09:53 Sander Brabander
09:53
[Comment From Dora ConstantinidisDora Constantinidis: ]
Thank you! Dora....
Friday April 23, 2010 09:53 Dora Constantinidis
09:53
Please email me any questions on [email protected]
09:53
On behalf of Lilian Karali and myself I would like to thank Tobias Mühlenbruch
very much for reading out our paper.
09:52
All the best for today's sessions- sorry wont be online later.
21:37
Judith Weingarten:
I'm amazed at your stamina. Danes are clearly descended from Vikings!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:37 Judith Weingarten
21:27
A big thank to our hosts, "see you" all tomorrow!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:27 Eleni Konstantinidi
21:27
[Comment From Jenny MoodyJenny Moody: ]
Thank you all for very interesting papers (from Texas)
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:27 Jenny Moody
21:27
Anaya and Melpo - the son of the last dyer family in Kritsa is an old shoemaker and he likes koybentes! He woyld enjoy meeting you, I believe!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:27 Sabine Beckmann
21:27
KosmosAdmin2:
Good night dear colleagues and thank you for your fine suggestions, precise
questions and comments. See you tomorrow, yours Marie-Louise
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:27 KosmosAdmin2
21:25
Kostas Paschalidis:
Kalinihta from Athens and thank you very much for this full day!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:25 Kostas Paschalidis
21:24
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Jan, yes! Friday morning. Funny, I often keep my computer on Los
Angeles time.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:24 ashlarblocks
21:24
Anaya - I thoroughly enjoyed your paper and look forward to reading the details of
the plants you have identified from the two Cretan sites and the colours they make.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:24 Marcia Nugent
21:24
Anayia and Melpo, you managed to keep our interest to the last minute of the
KOSMOS session! Thank you!
21:24
[Comment From loeta tyreeloeta tyree: ]
Thank you again for an excellent job.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:24 loeta tyree
21:24
Anaya Melpo, whenever there is reference to dyes I switch on, this was a really
great paper. I have some detailed notes for dyes in east Crete and Kana's workshop.
One particularly interesting point is the seasonality of dyes, as the same plant creates
different dye colours at different times of the year. Good stuff.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:24 Guest
21:24
Good night, see you tomorrow!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:24 Annette Pohlke
21:23
Thank you all for your nice words! I am glad you enjoyed my paper!
21:23
Warmest thanks to Marie Louise, Robert and all participants of Kosmos. It was a
great second day :)
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Katherina Aslanidou
21:23
FAcinating!!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Jacke Phillips
21:23
Thank you all for your comments...see you tomorrow.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Anaya Sarpaki
21:23
@Jake: yes, I found your mail address; @Kostas: of course I will send details to
you.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Luca Girella
21:23
Anaya & Melpo, when you say that there were 71 plants for cloth dying, etc, are
these 71 plants you ID'd in your work, or 71 plants available today?
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Mary Jane Cuyler
21:23
@ Anaya Sarpaki: a fascinating different perspective, I learnt a lot, thank you.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Valeria Lenuzza
21:23
Thank you everybody in Copenhagen and elsewhere! "See" you all tomorrow!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Angelos Papadopoulos
21:23
5.18 am on Friday morning - am I right - i keep my computer on Australian time!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:23 Janice Crowley
21:22
ashlarblocks:
Louise H. @Kosmos Admin: It's almost 5:30 AM down here! Good night everyone
for another fantastic day!
21:22
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Anaya and Melpo!
21:17
KosmosAdmin2:
Louise H: what time is it now by you? it must be really late/early?
21:15
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: Amazing stuff!
21:14
Anaya and Melpo, this is a fascinating presentation. Thank you!
21:14
Anaya, it is realy usefull for me to hear about the different types of organisation of
dyeing activities, even within Crete. Thank you for making the clear!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:14 Marie-Louise Nosch
21:11
For Eleni: Congatulations for the paper, it does justice to a rather underrated ivory
figure.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:11 Lena Papazoglou
21:10
Splendid paper, Eleni - I have worked on this figure and have come to many of the
same conclusions myself. Congratulations!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:10 Bernice Jones
21:10
Eleni and Costas both: great papers. We WILL have much to talk about in Athens.
I'm planning late June/July. Will get in touch later on this.
21:10
Yes, its very interesting matter that. Thank u again, I was very impressed by ur
paper.
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:10 Valia Papanastasopoulou
21:10
[Comment From Eva WachaEva Wacha: ]
Dear Eleni, thank very much for the paper we could hear! Its a great work you did
for reconstucion the ivory figurine. Experimental archaeology looks perfect in this
example, congratulations!
Thursday April 22, 2010 21:10 Eva Wacha
21:10
Yes, this is a very interesting approach! The figurine reconstruction is so helpful and beautiful.
21:05
Kostas Paschalidis:
Congratulations Eleni!!!!
21:03
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ Luca: I really need to know from you the Kamilari mirrors. I am not aware of
them. Thank you please e-mail me!
21:02
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Kazimierz: I am aware of the Nafplia simple grave with a mirror, thanks to your
book! I have just illustrated and discussed here only the best preserved cases. Thank
you.
20:59
Eleni thank you..although it is late here...I am thoroughly enjoying your approach
20:59
kostas, I much enjoyed your paper and look forward to discussing about it in Athens
...
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:59 anna lucia dagata
20:59
Kostas Paschalidis:
@Valia: It can have definately an explanation that may be connected with certain
beliefs! That's true. Still, what I can suggest is what I can trace from living images.
In addition, it is really interesting that mirrors are held in 5ht century vases and stele
with the left hand! So, the functional factor is there! Thank you very much for your
comment!
20:55
20:55
@Kosta a great paper. Congratulations! The left position of many mirrors in the
graves could be possibly the result of the everyday use of the objects? Holding with
the left hand and doing the toilet with the right? Or it could be something else which
has to do with the ideology of the Aegean world?
@Kostas Paschalidis: How interesting – thank you!
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:55 Alexandra Alexandri
20:55
Kostas, well thoughted and well presented. Congratulations!
20:55
Louise H: Absolutely. Sounds like a good idea! Anyone else interested?
20:53 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Eleni Konstantinidi] Dear Eleni, sorry we could not make slide 6 work.
But your paper is so fine, and it is nice to hear your voice!
20:51
Excellent paper, Costas
20:51
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you all, Vangeli, Valeria, Marie Louise, Luca, Margarita, Frangoula and
Eleni D!
20:51
Luca Girella: I'm interested in what you've noticed at Kamilari. I didn't look at the
multi-generational tombs as there was just too much in them and I'd need to see the
elements themselves. I'm glad other people are thinking about re-use, as I think it
says so much about the people behind them. Did you get my email in my earlier
blurb to Georg Nightingale?
20:51
Dear Kostas, very, very interesting and perfect structured paper! Thank you very
much! Also to hear you, was great again. You know, that one of the mirrors will be
discusses in my work and I really like to quote your paper!?
20:48
well done, Kosta!...and do not forget the two sepcimens from the mycenaean
reoccupation of Kamilari tholos A
20:48
Kosta, Mirrors everywhere! A great insight!
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:48 Vanghelis
20:48
Great paper! I enjoyed especially the connection of the mirrors to warriors graves
and your (succesfull) attempt to create small personal stories for the owners of the
mirrors!
20:48
@ Kostantinos Paschalidis: a very interesting, stimulating paper!
20:48
malgosia siennicka:
@Kostas - how nice to hear you :-) Great paper, bravo!
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:48 malgosia siennicka
20:46
ashlarblocks:
Louise H. @Jackie: Absolutely! Hybridity is not just a fluid concept, but a
problematic one that could probably merit an entire conference just to go through
what it means.
20:43
[Comment From Fragoula GeormaFragoula Georma: ]
Kosta, my compliments for this synthetic paper!
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:43 Fragoula Georma
20:43
To Kostas Paschalidis: Bravo!
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:43 Eleni Drakaki
20:40
What a fine paper, Costas!
20:40
Nancy, you should be at the CTR by now and having pizza and beer, so thank you
very much for reading my paper - especially after so long but so stimulating a day.
Hope to see you and Roger soon, and sorry to not see you this time.
20:36
To Marie Louise and all the participants of the Conference: thank you very much for
all the effort and for making all this possible! It is a great experience even under
these circumstances! "See" you all tomorrrow!
20:35
Thanks for your comments. Louise, I think the hybridity is a fluid concept, ranging
from none to a great deal depending on the person who was reworking the object,
what is was before and what it was after it was reworked. That is one of my points there is NO blanket statement for the collection. Different people did the work and
they worked to the point they wanted, which were different. To Eleni D; I'n not
entirely sure that carnelian was ll that rare, but it may have been to the owner. The
engraved motif may well have been the reason he(?) wanted to keep it. This is the
problem - there are too many potential reasons, but we can project our own
possibilities and won't be wrong!
20:32
Now that improved sound has made headphones obsolete, our red as the Theran girls
ears from midday can return to their normal colour - but I have enjoyed every
minute - thank you all a lot for making it possible!
20:31
To all speakers of the afternoon: I learned a lot about many aspects of jewellery and
beads and hope to meet you all in person in the near future. Many thanks to MarieLouse Nosch and Robert Laffineur and the most helpful members of the CRT and
IT-department of the University for makeing this conference possible despite all the
travel problems.
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:31 Georg Nightingale
20:31
Julie Hruby:
@Jacke: thanks, that was really interesting. I'm so happy to see reuse/recycling
getting attention.
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:31 Julie Hruby
20:29
20:28
To Jacke Phillips: very interesting observations on the repaired seal from Aidonia:
one wonders whether the rarity of the material and of the engraved motif were also
important factors behind the decision for repairing the seal.
Kostas: you are the only one recorded and heard properly!
20:28
The 11 KOSMOS participants have now been in the recording studio since noon
without breaks, so after Jacke's paper we will go and listen to the last 3 pre-recorded
papers from the Centre for Textile Research, where we can watch on a large screen,
and have some food and beer! We look forward to enjoying Anaya and Costas and
Eleni's papers. See you all tomorrow again at 10 for another round of exciting
papers. The program is on the web site.
20:28
Excellent research Jacke.
20:28
Great paper, Jacke, fascinating detail.
20:28
@Jacke: this is very interesting, as for the replacement habit, I have noticed the
same in at least a couple of cases from restudying the Kamilari tholos tomb.
20:28
Thank you for your paper...It is an eye opener!!
20:28
Judith Weingarten:
I do love that 'aspiration and pride'. Thanks Jacke, my only doubt would be about
how the MMII amethyst scarabs but that's for another time.
20:26
Kostas Paschalidis:
Congratulations Jacke. Especially for the last part of your paper. What these items
ment to them. A paper giving motives to what we see as results!
20:25
Bravo, very good work Jacke! We have a lot to discuss on your next trip to Athens!
20:25
I know the publication, of course (and the conference), but I did not remember the
detail. Thanks for remimding me.
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:25 Robert Laffineur
20:24
ashlarblocks:
Louise H. @Jackie: it seems that with some of the re-cutting, the result was a hybrid
form. Do you think this hybridity was intentional?
20:23
Jacke, your paper is a great inspiration! The results of your careful observations are
most fascinating!
20:21
20:20
Robert, these aren't my observations, but those of the BM conservators. Their report
is in the recent Aegean Treasure conference publication, Lesley Fitton, ed. The
Aignina Treasure (2009), from where I got all those photos.
Thank you all for your comments and information. See you all in the National
Museum, Athens
20:18
20:10
Jacke, your observation of traces of repair on the Aegina treasure pendant and
pectoral are very interesting. Do you explain them in connection with the secondary
context (the Mycenaean chamber tomb on Aegina) or do you think the repairs have
been made in Minoan times?
Lena - Wonderful reconstruction!
20:10
A great pleasure, Lena. And a wonderful (and convincing) reconstruction of the
coffin
20:08
Angus - Delighted that you agree with me on the beaded veil at Akrotiri and the
Ivory Triad (Archaeology 200 and Metron 2003). Good talk!
20:07
@ Lena Papazoglou: I really enjoyed your paper
20:05
To Lena Papazoglou: thank you for this paper, especially for the great new
information that came from the conservation of these pieces.
20:05
Congratulations! Very impressive! We should think about having the drawing
exhibited!
20:05
For Robert: Thank you so much for reading my paper!
20:04
Judith Weingarten:
Jake?
20:04
Just came back again. Sorry to have missed much of Lena's reconstruction.
20:04
I've just lost sound. Is there a problem your end?
20:04
[Comment From SusanSusan: ]
Did anyone else's sound just cut out? The slides are still going.
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:04 Susan
20:03
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ Lena Papazoglou-Manioudaki: Congratulations for such a thorough analysis! We
have much to share on Monday!
20:02
Helena Tomas:
Kosta, me and Marcel are eagerly waiting for your paper here in Zagreb. Lena, I am
really enjoying your paper now.
Thursday April 22, 2010 20:02 Helena Tomas
20:01
Karetsou reported a foot of a sceptre from Youkhtas in the Ireland conference on
peak sanctuaries in Feb.
20:01
To John Younger: Hi John, I am sure this texting looks fairly familiar: a sped up and
focused Aegeanet!!!
19:55
Kostas Paschalidis:
@ Eleni Drakaki: Jacke first, then mine and afterwards Eleni's.
19:54
Jane Johnsen:
Hello all. Tomorrows programme has now been published on the CTR website
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos_programme_friday/
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:54 Jane Johnsen
19:54
@Carole Gillis: I was thinking it might solve some problems since you can combine
any number of variables (I mean in terms of color, not necessarily things like age,
sex, gender etc), including “not known” or “ambiguity” – or “ignore this variable
when analyzing” etc. Also there are special modules (e.g. in packages like SPSS) for
small samples, since most stat algorithms are only meaningful for large samples
(sometimes even simple frequencies).
19:54
19:53
[Comment From Allison ThomasonAllison Thomason: ]
@Carole Gillis, re: ANE comparanda. Hi Carole, The works of Irene Winter on
aesthetics and luminosity in Mesop. have been collected in a two volume set by Brill
published in 2009 (title: On Art in the ANE from the 3rd mill. B.C.E.)
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:54 Allison Thomason
to Constantinos Paschalidis: Kosta is yours coming up next?
19:53
Dear Vanghelis, there is indeed the possibility for such uses of beads as well. The
evidence for an amuletic use of beads is quite strong. A use for play seems difficult
to prove. I think Kalliopi Nikita propesed a use of necklaces in place of rattles. Still
tody children love the sound of beads when you shake a necklace.
19:53
Reading through one of the volumes of Archaeologike Ephemeris, I found an
interesting report (from a salvage excavation) of a LH IIIB child burial: on the torso
of the child, the excavator found placed a cup (ceramic) holding inside it a number
of spherical glass beads. The similarity with the case of the Dendra "king" burial
(gold cup that held his signet rings and seals) is striking!
19:53
One more comment on silk. Do Aegeanists know that on teh island of Madagascar
there is a functioning cottage industry producing silk garments (particularly shawls
called lambas) using the wild silk of a local silkworm?
19:36
Georg, thank you for your paper, I ll never see black dots on wallpaintings the same
again. Is there a possibility of worry beads, i.e. bead strings for different purposes,
for ritual, play or other? (sorry if you mentioned it I caught your paper in the
middle)
19:36
@Smith and Dabney: I am fascinated by your microbeads! I have noted such beads
in some tombs of Elatei-Alonaki as well. Unfortunately most of them must have
been lost as not water-sieving was done.
19:36
@Smith and DAb
19:36
[Comment From Maia PomadereMaia Pomadere: ]
Thank you for questions and comments. I'm not really convinced that the small
women on seals are children, as the criteria is the size; it's an hypothesis.
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:36 Maia Pomadere
19:36
Maia - Interesting talk. My computer locked at some points so if you didn't mention
it, you might find my AJA 2009 article that reconstructs the dresses of the little girls
on the Ivory Triad and the fresco from Mycenae.useful.
19:36
Maia ..have you heard about the 'martaki'...a babit to wear the child a little
bracelet...made of 2 colours and this is observed in all the Balkans, including
Greece...It is worn in March...and is supposed to have existed since the Eleusinian
times...maybe earlier?? and is connected to 'kroki'....needs to be looked into the
anthropology of modern Greece...might prove interesting!
19:36
@ Marie-Louise - I have e-mailed my presentation to you with recorded script.
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:36 Marcia Nugent
19:36
19:34
[Comment From Nathan HarperNathan Harper: ]
Determining body position at burial from decomposed remains is problematic.
Those that are interested in this type of interpretation should seek out Duday's
"anthropologie de terrain".
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:36 Nathan Harper
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Angus and Mary. Well-documented excavations are rare and of crucial
importance!
19:30
carole gillis:
To all of you who send comments on color, thank ou very much. I was awre of
many of the publications, but not all, especially the ANE comparanda. To Alexandra
Alexandri---not yet. what did you have in mind? unfortunately contexts re
impossible--thee are (assumdly) family or other grouping graves, used for 250 yrs or
so. no way to determine contxt, sex, age, gender, whatever. But please...this is a
study in its early stage an I am open for all comments and suggestions. Again, thank
you all for your ideas, comments, biblio, and suggestions.
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:30 carole gillis
19:13
19:07
Anne Chapin:
John, are you there? Can you comment on Paul's work on girls in Aegean
seals/sealings/signet rings? If I recall, Paul identified some differences in costuming
as well as size distinctions among figures...
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:13 Anne Chapin
Maia, Thank you. A question on identifying children on the seals - is it by size?
19:07
Sorry for the confusion of m and n (mow im my previous message). I still have
problems with the qwerty keybord!
19:07
19:07
I personally think that the right female on the ring from Mycenae is simply the
misunderstood Minoan figure hanging from Trees and is not supposed to be a
child...
Next comes the paper by Smith-Dabney, read by Tobias
19:06
19:06
@Carole: The question of value and saturation seems to be very important. When
we accept that kyanos in the first millenium (e.g. several times in Homer) derives
from the Linear B ku-wa-no (mostly meaning dark blue glass), it is fascination to
see that in Homer especially the value (a gleaming quality for example when
someone is described as having kyanos-coloured eyebrows, hair, cloak, etc.) is
meant. In another place masses of soldiers are descending on the battle field like a
dark/kyanos-coloured cloud. In this case the aspect of saturation seems to be
important (as dark as a frightening dark cloud).
[Comment From zenobia1zenobia1: ]
Sorry, I signed in to my Twitter account by mistake. Zenobia 1 = judith weingarten.
Thursday April 22, 2010 19:06 zenobia1
19:02
Julie Hruby:
@Jacke, Carole, et al.: I do think it's interesting to consider how reflective a surface
is, and this may also play into Vanghelis's argument; things that are smoother and
more reflective supposedly make detail more visible. (Not something I'd noticed
first-hand, but I recall that a project that was computer-modelling cuneiform tablets
several years ago had the feature that you could make surfaces look shiny, which
made poorly preserved signs appear clearer).
18:59
[Comment From Robert LaffimeurRobert Laffimeur: ]
We have solved the problem. The paper of Maia is now being delivered and we get
back to the original order of the presentations. Hope this is ok mow.
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:59 Robert Laffimeur
18:59
[Comment From zenobia1zenobia1: ]
@Carole, stimulating -- as always. You may know Karen Forster's recent paper
where she stresses the *shiny-ness* of faience, associating it with an almost ethereal
effect.
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:59 zenobia1
18:58
@Carole: Dear Carole, in case you haven’t, you could check the publications by J.
Chapman on the aesthetics of color in Neolithic/Eneolithic artifacts, such as “Colour
in Balkan prehistory in Early Symbolic Systems of Communication in Southeast
Europe, Vol. I (ed. L. Nikolova): 31-56. BAR IS 1139 (2003), or “Colourful
prehistories: The problem with the Berlin and Kay colour paradigm” in Colouring
the past: The significance of colour in archaeological research (ed. A Jones & G.
MacGregor): 45-72. Berg (2002)
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:58 Fotis Ifantidis
18:58
Hi Carole...it makes us think!! I like it!
18:58
18:58
@Carole Gillis: Interesting idea, since stats can go a long way to reveal patterns
otherwise lost to us and perhaps not even consciously expressed in the culture
studied. Have you thought of using stats other than frequencies?
@Carole Gillis. Mesopotamianist here again. Hope Aegeanists don't mind me
crashing this fascinating party! What an interesting way to consider all of the facets
of color--how about mixed, that is polychromatic (maybe we should now say
polyhued) objects? Were there any, and if so, what was there value
(matte/shiny/both)? Of course we can consider for comparison the Mesop. love for
polychromy. Also--you've seen the work of Irene Winter on luminous qualities of
objects in Mesop., of course (apologies if I'm stating the obvious).
18:58
18:58
@Carole: Dear Carole, in case you haven’t, you could check the publications by J.
Chapman on the aesthetics of color in Neolithic/Eneolithic artifacts, such as “Colour
in Balkan prehistory in Early Symbolic Systems of Communication in Southeast
Europe, Vol. I (ed. L. Nikolova): 31-56. BAR IS 1139 (2003), or “Colourful
prehistories: The problem with the Berlin and Kay colour paradigm” in Colouring
the past: The significance of colour in archaeological research (ed. A Jones & G.
MacGregor): 45-72. Berg (2002)
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:58 Fotis Ifantidis
Thank you, Carole! HIGHLY interesting and colorful paper!
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:58 Fritz
18:52 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Mary Dabney] Hopefully in about 20-40 minutes
18:52
Hi Julie. I'd made the comment before she defined his terms. But not what I'm used
to either...
18:52
It is interesting to not that there is proof for other colours of glass not only from the
Uluburun ship but from the Aegen as well. But, despite the availability of different
colours the Mycenaeans heavily favoured blue, especially darker hues of blue.
18:52
To Carole Gillis: Interesting questions indeed. However, taking under consideration
the sea networks established by the Minoans first and the Mycenaeans later, I do not
see how difficult it would be to procure hard stones from Cycladic islands, such as
Serifos. Also, if you think the popularity of amethyst in the early LBA and its
occurrence in Northern Greece in combination with the northern routes for the
import of Baltic amber...
18:52
George: Great! My comment seems not to have included my email address, so I'll
try again: [email protected]. Your discussion group sounds like a great idea. Will
email you tonight.
18:52
[Comment From Mary DabneyMary Dabney: ]
Any idea what time you will be reading the Smith and Dabney paper? I will try to be
on line to answer questions, but I have to go teach soon.
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:52 Mary Dabney
18:50
Julie Hruby:
"not" rather than "now"...I should type more carefully.
18:50
Julie Hruby:
@Jacke: not quite..."value" in Munsell reflects how light or dark a color is and not
how reflective. Carole's terminology for color here is now what I'm used to, but
since she has carefully defined each term, it works.
18:47
All glass is not dark cobalt blue! Uluburun had cobalt blue, a bluish-green and
amethyst-coloured.
18:46
@Jacke: I would very much like to start a discussion (and with anyone else who is
interested in vitreous beads)! My e-mail is [email protected]
18:38
Gage is using Munsell!
18:38
We have a problem opening the ppt of Maia. We try to solve this and will be reading
the paper later in the session, as well as Smith and Dabney´s paper. Sorry for the
unconvenience.
18:38
Great paper George! I'd been planning to talk to about several things at the
conference - obviously not going to do that - but would like to get in touch with you
by email. Mine is when you have time.
18:30
@Cynthia. I am looking forward to reading your paper. I am aware of the
unpublished thesis of Dr Nenad Petrovic who has researched the topic. I only touch
upon symbolism in my thesis, but it is such an interesting topic!
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:30 Marsia Bealby
18:22
Julie Hruby:
@ Robert: Thank you.
18:20
The paper of Julie Hruby will be presented tomorrow at the end of the session
(18:00). Eva Andersson Strand will read it.
18:20
@ Judith: I hope your paper will finally close this open question! Certainly, I don't
believe all signet rings were 'official' rings...Filia
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:20 Georgia Flouda
18:20
[Comment From Hopeful PhD studentHopeful PhD student: ]
Does anyone know whether the videos of these presentations are going to be made
available for download?
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:20 Hopeful PhD student
18:20
[Comment From Cynthia ColburnCynthia Colburn: ]
@Marsia Bealby: regarding Walter's paper, you asked if there is any published study
on how imported raw materials in the Aegean are connected to Minoan ritual. I
begin to discuss this for the third millennium in an article in the April 2008 issue of
AJA.
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:20 Cynthia Colburn
18:17
Vanghelis Kyriakidis:
@Georgia, of course they were used for identification, that is the point of their
administrative function. But all they would need to do is distinguish themselves
from other seals belonging to other people. 'This seal belongs to Georgia', rather
than the similar one which 'belongs to Janice' For this you dont need all the details.
For the aesthetic purposes you do need all the details (the narrative needs them).
@Janice, I have enough of it in the stuff that you have seen. Email for everyone is
[email protected] @Grazie Pietro, tanti auguri. @Judith you are absolutely right, I
was not looking at all rings of course but signet rings @Julie, I am not saying that
they were to be seen on the ring only, but both. The point, probably not clear enough
is that they have TWO viewing surfaces not one, both the sealing and the seal, the
latter being for aesthetic and ostantatious purposes - status related amongst other
things- the former for administrative/identification purposes.
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:17 Vanghelis Kyriakidis
18:17
Julie Hruby:
P.S. for further clarification of my prior comment - stone seals.
18:15
Julie Hruby:
@Vanghelis: I like the idea that gold rings were intended to be seen in the original
rather than (or in addition to but primarily?) in impression. I'm curious - would you
see most/all seals as being intended to be seen in impression?
18:15
Judith Weingarten:
Julie, I certainly hope we're *not* skipping your paper. I am looking forward to it.
Georgia, it's still an open question which rings were used as official rings and which
might well have been 'private' possessions. My CMS Beiheft paper (which should
forthcome this year) deals with part of this problem, the so-called 'replica rings'.
Cheers.
18:12
Julie Hruby:
I'm confused; are we skipping my paper? I saw there was a bit of trouble at the
beginning; is there a format problem?
18:12
Georg, I'm so glad you made it there and we're getting glass into the conversation!
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:12 Bryan Burns
18:12
18:11
But your reasoning was convincing in any case. Bravo Vanghelis. I had never
thought to the possibility to divorce sealings and signet rings from the point of
visibility.
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:12 pietro militello
Vanghelis, Thank you. I will look into your "stable direction" and email. Cheers.
18:11
18:11
@ Vanghelis: This is a very interesting point that you make! But why do I think that
the signet rings that functioned as attributes of officials would also be essential for
identification purposes (not just for adornment), especially in conjunction with clay
sealings?
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:11 Georgia Flouda
To Jacke Phillips: I agree, but it is important to know about the existence of local
sources to begin with.
18:10
to Eleni-- I concur. Also intresting for my work. But one woners how easy/difficult
importing from say Serifos as opposed to ?? might be? What were the mechanisms
of 'longdistance trade' and wht i 'long distance'?
18:10
@ Julie Hruby: it is a recent undertaking of IGME and it makes sense, if one thinks
the sheer amount of agate from the Mainland. I look forward to your paper!
18:09
Judith Weingarten:
@Mary Jane Cuyler, the figure comes from the Financial Times earlier this week (so
I take it on trust). They didn't go into more detail.
18:09 Guest:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] thank you. I have been contacted by M.-L. also (Reply
Privately)
18:05
sorry, I realise that if we are to show details, the small format does not help...but the
fact that you cannot see them, means that they were not visible on the sealings!
best to all
18:02
[Comment From Eva PanagiotakopuluEva Panagiotakopulu: ]
Hi to all. An additional comment about wilk silk: There is a find of a wild silk
cocoon probably Pachypasa otus from Akrotiri, the title and pdf of the publication is
available at
http://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/research/globalchange/group5b/QuatEnt/page4.html
Thursday April 22, 2010 18:02 Eva Panagiotakopulu
18:02
To Eleni Drakaki. The main question is whether these sources were exploited in the
Bronze Age. There is an amethyst source near Kalamata in the Peleponnesos, but it
was never exploited until modern times. I was told this by a Greek jeweller who is
professionally very interested in ancient jewellery and its materials - he studies it so can't quote a published source, but I was assured he was certain.
18:02
@Cynthia Colburn: Fascinating! It adds another layer to the performativity involved
in owning these gorgeous foreign luxury goods. First the jewelry is worn for years,
recognized by everyone as foreign, mysterious, costly and elite...then it is publicly
buried, taken out of circulation, but the act will be remembered for a generation.
18:01
Walter, thank you for sharing a very interesting paper with us. So, imported raw
materials=exotica, and I guess that these materials take special value in the Aegean,
mainly from the fact that they arrive from outside the 'borders'. Can these imported
raw materials take magic-symbolic-ritual character, and if so, can the technique of
processing these materials take special value itself (as a ritual maybe?) After all,
these materials are strongly connected to the elite, so processed or not, final products
or not, they still retain some magico-ritual character. Is that right? Is there any
published study on this (i.e. how imported raw materials in the Aegean are
connected to MInoan ritual?) Thank you.
18:01
Iron, if I am not mistake, could be a by-product of gold smelting. One would have
found the iron, as if by magic.
18:01
Julie Hruby:
@ Eleni Drakaki: that's really interesting. I will look that up...it also has some
bearing on my paper.
17:57
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Cindy: Hi back, Cindy! Oz is good, but I miss California. I currently am
involved in a big field project in Israel.
17:50
Sorry for sending this again! A very insightful paper by Dr. Mueller. A brief note on
the subject of imported hard stones though: recent geological investigations carried
out by staff members of the Greek Institute for Geological and Metallurgic
Researches (I.G.M.E.) have revealed local sources for the first three on the islands
of Kimolos (amethyst, carnelian) and Seriphos (amethyst), on the Peloponnese
(carnelian), as well as in Macedonia and Thrace (rich accumulations of amethyst)
and have concluded that “agate can be found in various places in Greece”. For this
information, see: Eleftheria Stamatatou, Gemstones in Mycenaean Greece. Their use
and significance, BAR IS 1230, Oxford, 2004.
17:50
@Walter: Thank you for an interesting paper! Is the iron ring from Anemospilia,
which you mentioned, the very ring worn by the "priest" who had been found next to
the sacrified young man who had collapsed when the earthquake stroke the
sanctuary? As far as I know this is a very rare find of an quite early iron ring (but
you probably mentioned that, when I took a little break for the throne)?
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:50 Sascha Mauel
17:50
@Judith Weingarten: Sounds like an interesting study! I wonder if that 5% of airshipped international trade consists largely of luxury perishable goods, which are
notoriously overpriced. Did the study suggest what sorts of products were air
shipped?
17:50
A wonderfully insightful paper by Dr. Mueller and with great color images. A brief
note on the subject of imported hard stones though:
17:50
17:50
@Walter Müller, Thank you for sharing these comparisons of different materials
and your clear, compelling analysis. The combination of materials is particularly
striking -- both visually and intellectually!
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:50 Bryan Burns
Walter, Thank you - always new ways to look at the seals!
17:50
[Comment From Maria AnastasiadouMaria Anastasiadou: ]
@Müller the high ranking of iron is very interesting. Thank you!
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:50 Maria Anastasiadou
17:50
Wonderful paper, Walter!
17:50
@Mary Jane Cuyler: If you are referring to the Cretan material, there is substantial
evidence that the jewelry was used before being buried in tombs. Parts of diadems
were cut away or pulled off before burial, the diadems show evidence of repeated
use, and one of the ivory seals at Mochlos was broken and riveted back together. I
am less familiar with the evidence for use of the material from Ur, but I will look
into it. Thank you!
17:50
@Alison Thomason: Thanks for your comment! I'm familiar with Amy's article and
enjoyed it very much. I am currently pursuing the research you suggest. I have an
article in the April 2008 issue of AJA if you're interested, and I'm working on an
article on ritual spaces in Prepalatial Crete to tie everything together. I presented that
research at the annual meetings of the Archaeological Institute of America last year
in Philadelphia if you're interested. Thanks again!
17:50
Dear Walter, I am already learning from your paper and itøs not even over. I had no
idea that glass could be more valuable than fine semi-precious stones.
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:50 Nancy Thomas
17:50
Ida, Thank you in advance, and sorry, but I was not able to record my voice with my
computer... I will contact you later by email.
17:50
A brief note for Dr. Mueller's paper in respect to the importation of certain hard
stones: recent geological investigations carried out by staff members of the Greek
Institute for Geological and Metallurgic Researches (I.G.M.E.) have revealed local
sources on the islands of Kimolos (amethyst, carnelian) and Seriphos (amethyst), on
the Peloponnese (carnelian), as well as in Macedonia and Thrace (rich
accumulations of amethyst) and have concluded that agate can be found in various
places in Greece. One can find this information in: Eleftheria Stamatatou,
Gemstones in Mycenaean Greece. Their use and significance, BAR IS 1230,
Oxford, 2004.
17:50
[Comment From Elisabetta BorgnaElisabetta Borgna: ]
For Lisa French: sure I send you!
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:50 Elisabetta Borgna
17:49
[Comment From idaida: ]
@pietro - send it to [email protected] - i think I just won the honour to present
your paper....
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:49 ida
17:49
Thank you, Louise. I agree. In the longer version of the paper I will address that
more explicitly. Although some of these small prestige items are referred to as
"trinkets" by some (based in part) on a Homeric reference, I believe that during this
early period they had significant symbolic value. I hope all is well in Australia!
17:48 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to pietro militello] Yes, her address is [email protected]
17:47
ashlarblocks:
Louise H. @Walter, despite my earlier comment, it was a really interesting paper.
17:46
Julie Hruby:
Indeed, Walter, the photos are tremendous. I also really appreciate the work on
ranking metals based on what is used with what...very sensible.
17:45
Judith Weingarten:
Bravo Walter. I just came across a modern figure which speaks to the distance/value
equation. Today, just 5% of international trade goes by air but it accounts for 40% of
the value of traded goods. Perhaps similar percentages would have applied for sea vs
land transport in preciious goods.
17:44
Walter, your pictures are fabulous. Thank you very much indeed. The point of
concealment of the item, is discussed in my paper too.
17:41
Jane Johnsen:
We now have photographic evidence of remote participation in Cologne. Please
view http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/photoswed/
17:34
Ida Demant:
@pietro - send it to [email protected] - I think I just won the honour of
presenting your paper tomorrow..
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:34 Ida Demant
17:33 pietro militello:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] My speaker is Ida Demant. Perhaps is better not to
stress Marie Louise and to contact directly Dr. Demnat. Can you give me her address?
(Reply Privately)
17:29
[Comment From MiltosPMiltosP: ]
Thank you Jane Johnsen, i'm reallly thank you very much.
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:29 MiltosP
17:29
17:29
Hello--a Mesopotamianist here working on dress and identity--so happy to have this
conference streamed live!! Sets a precedent for ALL conferences!! Thanks, Cynthia
for drawing such connections for the 3rd mill. Is there a way that we can take your
insights further, and relate your work on the Cretan adornment assemblage to
concepts of identity and agency though performance? Amy Gansell has a recent
article (Cambridge Archae. Journal 17, 2007) relating adornment "sets" to identity
and individual choice--could a similar analysis work for Cretan burials in 3rd m.?
Thanks Birgitta! Highly interesting results!
17:29 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to pietro militello] I suggest you send it directly to Marie Louise
17:28
@Marie Louise. I do not want to stress you, but le me know whom I have to contact
for sending a slightly revised version of my power point.
17:28 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to MiltosP] What is the name of your sister? I have the progremme text and
will be able to tell you the exact time if I have her name.
17:27
testing...is there a large lag time on comments?
17:27
Jane Johnsen:
The programme for tomorrow will be posted on the website within the next couple
of hours. The programme will start at 10 in the morning CET, at 9 GMT and at 11 in
Greece
17:27
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: I would suggest that rarity and long transport routes should be split into 2
categories. As Cline points out in his paper on distance value, an item can be
mundane but be valuable based on distance.
17:25
[Comment From MiltosPMiltosP: ]
Hi to all of you! Your works are individual! Does anybody know about the program
tomorow? Cause my sisters work will be read. Thank you
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:25 MiltosP
17:25
@Irene Good: What a coincidence! I had first thought of you (when I aksed my
questions earlier in the chat), but I didn't know that you are online. I am, of course,
interested in your article, and I would very much like to receive a copy of it. Already
your 1996 article had inspired me a lot, thank for that! My e-mail is: [email protected]
17:25
Thank YOU, Nancy, for reading my paper. My computer froze at the beginning of
the talk, so I don't think my earlier message went through. Greetings from Los
Angeles.
17:25
[Comment From Irene GoodIrene Good: ]
What I think may have happened that would explain the different results is that the
other study perhaps sampled the main body of the textile; I took exclusively the
embroidery thread remnants; and they are clearly not woolen, even apparent without
a microscope. I do not believe they are Chinese silk but from the Mediterranean
Pacypasa otus silk
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:25 Irene Good
17:25
Irene, Thank you for the silk reference.
17:25
I wonder how long the jewelry remained in circulation before being buried in tombs.
17:17
Margarita Gleba:
@Irene: I would love to see it - I hope you finally can declare the issue resolved!
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:17 Margarita Gleba
17:16
@ Marsia: Thank you very much!
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:16 Ute Günkel-Maschek
17:15
17:15
[Comment From Irene GoodIrene Good: ]
Hello! I am responding to the comments on silk in Germany- I have a pending
publication with a detailed appendix on the study I did with J. Kim on the
Hohmichele silk (Published first in Antiquity in 1995) - if anyone wishes for the
reference or a PDF of this they can contact me at [email protected].
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:15 Irene Good
[Comment From jo cutlerjo cutler: ]
Hi I have made it from London to Copenhagen
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:15 jo cutler
17:13
Margarita Gleba:
@Jo: Great! Many thanks!
17:10
[Comment From Lisa FrenchLisa French: ]
@Elisabetta - intended to watch your paper but muddled the time change- any hope
of a copy - [email protected]
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:10 Lisa French
17:10
Thank you Ute for the great paper.
17:10
[Comment From jo cutlerjo cutler: ]
Hi Margarita! Eva and I are now back in CPH and I will get the paper and PP later.
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:10 jo cutler
17:10
Birgitta - Excellent analysis and conclusions. Congratulations!.
17:04
Judith Weingarten:
Good stuff, Birgitta, as always!
17:02
Margarita Gleba:
@Marie-Louise: I just sent Jo the paper and a new version of the PP without sound
for tomorrow - letting you know in case she does not check her e-mail! As I will be
in the train all day I will not be able to follow on-line but if there are any questions
Jo cannot answer, people can e-mail me.
17:02
@ John: Thank you very much! I think it is most significant that the Minoans chose
or adopted the Taweret (and the meanings associated with it) as the "appropriate"
image for visually expressing their own fertility ritual-related ideas!
17:02
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Birgitta. So tombs with spinning whor-and -pin should be identified as
those of female burials? If so, you give me a stronger element for my paper later
tonight! Thank you again for this detailed examination of case-to case occurance of
these objects!
17:01
Thanks Birgitta
17:00
John Younger:
Thank you, Birgitta!
Thursday April 22, 2010 17:00 John Younger
16:59
@Birgitta: very interesting calculations indeed!
16:59
16:59
Hi Cynthia, I am glad to see that you are watching. I will be reading your paper in a
minute and I love the images especially of those in color from Ur. The conference
schedule is running a little bit behind at present. I apologize if I have to cut a bit
when my turn comes and hope you understand. Best wishes and thanks for being
here. Nancy
Good eye Ute!
16:58
John Younger:
Ute: very nice -- if you admit the Genius as Taweret, a protectress of childbirth, then
you have another fertility symbol.
16:56
Andreas and Frangoula, congratulations
16:47
@ Eva: Thank you. ;-)
16:47
@ Eleni: Thank you very much! It's indeed the most striking and most significant
parallel for the depicted theme.
16:46
Gratulation Ute, interesting work!
16:39
16:39
The last seal shown in Guenkel-Maschek's presentation is very interesting and the
way that the branch is shown one could assume that it was attached to the female
figure's hair and hanging backwards as in the case of the Thera fresco.
Hello Birgitta....from Chania....good luck!
16:37
@ Anaya: Thank you very much for your comment. Unfortunately I havn't
propagated olive trees on my own. This is just what I drew from modern as well as
from ancient sources on the topic.
16:32 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Cynthia Colburn] We are running a bit behind schedule, but your
presentation will be read right after the next presentation by Birgitta Hallager
16:30
@Margarita: Thanks for your comment. I believe you refere to the article by J.-P.
Schmidt on a dubious strands found on a Halskragen necklace from Early Bronze
Age, found in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, northern Germany!? This article was
indeed as interesting as disputable.
16:30
Hello!
16:29
Congratulations Andreas and Fragoula!
16:29
[Comment From AnayaAnaya: ]
One cannot just take any cutting to grow an olive tree...you need to use a sucker or
else a fairly older branch with a 'roseous' a knot where roots could develop...
Thursday April 22, 2010 16:29 Anaya
16:29
[Comment From Trevor Van DammeTrevor Van Damme: ]
@Sascha: Yes. The exact reference alludes me at the moment, but I will certainly
look it up.
Thursday April 22, 2010 16:29 Trevor Van Damme
16:23
Margarita Gleba:
@Trevor: actually I believe in both cases the "silk" threads were used for decoration,
not in the weave itself (so-called soumak technique, earlier thought to be
embroidery). But I do not know any details about the sampling.
16:18
@Margarita: One possible suggestion for the conflicting results is that the
fragments, which I have admittedly not seen, are a mixed fabric. There are extant
examples from the Roman period of such a phenomenon, where a woollen warp is
combined with a silk weft, or vice versa.
16:18
Andrea - and Fragoula, thank you for another great paper. Hope to see you in Athens
or NY.
16:18
16:17
Margarita Gleba:
@Sascha: The earliest secure silk finds of silk in Europe are Scythian (in Ukraine)
and that is the most likely route by which silk came to the Mediterranean. there as an
article about some BA finds in Germany a couple of years ago, claiming that they
are silk but none of the textile and fibre specialist agree.
@Andreas and Fragoula: A great paper. Thank u for the important and interesting
informations.
16:17
Kostas Paschalidis:
Great illustrations and interesting new doubts! Thank you Andrea and Frangoula!
16:16
[Comment From Andreas and FragoulaAndreas and Fragoula: ]
Thank you Fritz, greetings to all from the Akrotiri Excavation premises, Athens
Thursday April 22, 2010 16:16 Andreas and Fragoula
16:15
Andreas, Thank you - so much in your paper. Sorry to miss you at KOSMOS.
16:15
@Trevor (addendum): you mention "This is often used to suggest a Northern 'silk
route' mirroring that which ran through central Asia." Could you please send me
some reference on that?My email is [email protected]
16:15
@Trevor: thanks for responding. A couple years ago I wrote an article on how the
first silk may have come to Europe. I suggested a trading route from ancient China,
via the steppes of Asia (with the riding Scythians playing a major role), their cultural
exchange with the Ionian Greeks in the Euxinos Pontos (Black sea), who the passed
on the silk through the Mediterranean. Is this just fancy phantacy, or do you think
that this connection may be discussed further on? Unfortunately me article is written
in Danish.
16:15
Margarita Gleba:
@Trevor and Sascha: the Hallstatt "silk" finds from Hohmichele and Hochdorf are
very problematic - Johanna Banck-Burgess in her publication of Hochdorf textiles
from 1999 notes that amino-acid analysis has definitely proven that they are NOT
silk. But Irene Good (I believe in a 2001? article) claims the opposite also on the
basis of amino-acid analysis. In any case, the original results published by Hundt
should not be taken as reliable.
16:14
@ Andreas and Fragoula: Thank you very much for this excellent paper!! And for
depicting the fruit-bearing olive branch in detail!
16:13
Jane Johnsen:
All presenters. We really have to try to limit the presentations to the alotted 20
minutes
16:00
[Comment From Nahum Ben YehudaNahum Ben Yehuda: ]
The pure fiber of Seacell is a cellulose fiber with completely new applications. This
special fiber is produced by the so-called Lyocell process using cellulose and
seaweed as "renewable resources". The new approach is to use the Lyocell fiber as a
"functional carrier" for natural substances such as seaweed. Seaweed contains the
minerals of the sea. This explains why the most divers chemical elements can be
found in the seaweed materials. In addition, seaweed contains carbohydrates, amino
acids, fats and vitamins. To preserve the smoothness and firmness of the skin
,seaweed is used in cosmetics to improve the blood supply of the skin, activate the
meta- bolism and thus promote skin renewal. The active ingredients of the seaweed
are incorporated into the Seacell pure fiber. Upon contact with the skin, these
ingredients can be released. Seacell active has Antimycotic and antibacterial
properties. Consequently, Seacell active is ideal for bioactive textiles such as
sportwear, underwear, socks, work clothes and household fabrics, as well as for
allergy sufferers and hygiene articles. 1. 30% Seacell pure/ 70% Pimma Cotton 2.
20% Seacell pure/ 80% Pimma Cotton 3. 20% Seacell pure/ 10% Seacell active/
70% Pimma Cotton 4. Ne 20/1 - 40/1 5. Other blend ratios and materials are also
acceptable.
Thursday April 22, 2010 16:00 Nahum Ben Yehuda
16:00
Tencel has become very popular as an ideal fibre for clothing. Tencel is the brand
name of Lenzing Group for this fibre. The generic name is Lyocell. It is an
exceptionally strong cellulosic fibre with a soft hand, very low shrinkage, high
wrinkle resistance and good drape. An added benefit is a more environmentally
friendly manufacture. The process uses non- toxic solvent that is recycled. Tencel
itself is completely biodegradable. Its made from wood pulp from trees grown on
managed farms where replanting exceeds usage.
16:00
Are you sure Andreas that the small bead -shell (as you say)- is not from a
spondylous of a fish?? Just an idea...
15:56
@Sascha: The German burials, such as the Halstatt burial, are actually interesting in
that their silk seems to have a Chinese origin, but has been spun and woven in the
Mediterranean. This is often used to suggest a Northern 'silk route' mirroring that
which ran through central Asia.
15:56
I believe there is a new (modern) knitting yarn called >seacell
15:56
@Brendan: Is there a mythological story from the first millenium explaining who
invented where the technology to work byssos?
15:54
[Comment From Brendan BurkeBrendan Burke: ]
There is pinna from LM Crete - from Chania, as catalogued by D. Reese. I imagine
there are many others but can't say for certain.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:54 Brendan Burke
15:53
[Comment From Felicitas MaederFelicitas Maeder: ]
Dear Brendan Burke! What a joy to hear that others work on this fascinating fiber.
There are much to many things I would ask you, so could you get in contact with me
([email protected]) or give me your mail address? Thank a lot for your
paper!
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:53 Felicitas Maeder
15:53
[Comment From idaida: ]
@Brendan - yes, it was very interesting. I've only heard of sea silk as knitting yarn thanks for the introduction.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:53 ida
15:53
[Comment From isabelle martelliisabelle martelli: ]
new and beautiful work Brendan
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:53 isabelle martelli
15:53 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to anna lucia dagata] no problem, it is just for the benefit of people
responding
15:51 anna lucia dagata:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] yes, sorry! (Reply Privately)
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:51 anna lucia dagata
15:51
@ Brendan: A very interesting paper! Looking forward to read your article...
15:51
Brendan, very interesting and original paper, I think vyssos and porphyra are worn
by the rich and infamous in the gospel readings
15:51 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Please remeber to identify yourself
15:51
Brendan, very good paper, thank you! is there any evidence for pinna nobilis in LM
Crete?
15:51
Brendan, You have really stirred things up here! Great!
15:51
15:48
@Trevor: Thank you for a very nice paper! May I ask you: where do you think the
silk threads, found in Hohmichele and Hochdorf (c. 520/530 BC), came from? They
are almost contemporary with the find found in the Kerameikos at Athens. Isn't it
possible that this early European silk was traded by the first Greeks that settled in
Massilia (Marseille) in 500 BC? Several other artefacts, found in Hochdorf, Vix and
ALt-Trier (to mention just a few), undoubtly point to this influence.
thanks very much. One more slide click needed?
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:48 Brendan Burke
15:48
John Younger:
@Brendan: very intriguing identification for the "Sito-Potnia"!
15:48
Very interesting paper by Brendan Burke, I had never thought of Byssos silk.
15:47
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Brendan: very interesting paper!
15:46
Kostas Paschalidis:
Very original job, Brendan! Interesting comment on the incence burner fresco!
15:45
@ Brendan Burke: Astonishing paper!
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:45 Vassilis Petrakis
15:44
The word "butz" in Late Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic is a Mesopotamian loan word
meaning flax-linen. Sea Silk appears in the Tosephta Shabbat 9, 3 in Hebrew as
"wool from a sea creature".
15:44
[Comment From Simona TodaroSimona Todaro: ]
@ Sascha: I would love to further discuss this issue. You can contact me at
[email protected]
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:44 Simona Todaro
15:44
15:43
I was not able to listen to yesterday's presentations, but I can today. This is
wonderful and thank you very much to the organizers and all the presenters who
thoughtfully provided their presentations and powerpoints!
Brendan, interesting paper, never had thought of Byssos. Hope to see more on this.
15:42
carole gillis:
hi Brendan--I was really lloking forward to meeting up with you! Great paper!!
15:40
15:40
@Simona: thank you very much for your detailed comment. I would have loved to
discuss this matter with you in Copenhagen. Now, instead, I hope we will have the
oppurtunity to talk about it later on, or via email...
Bravo...for the originality etc...
15:40
15:38
@ Trevor van Damme: I understood that. Strictly semantically speaking, it was a
brilliant idea! However, as you showed in your paper, these a-ra-ka-te-ja handle also
wool... But, except for this technical thing, your paper was excellent!
@Brendan: so amazing.....!
15:38
[Comment From Evi PapadopoulouEvi Papadopoulou: ]
@Militello: I look forward to. You can contact me under the following address
[email protected].
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:38 Evi Papadopoulou
15:38
@Louise, @Janice: Thanks
15:36
@Sascha: Sorry for the delay: my connection crashed! I am an Early Minoan pottery
specialist (Phaistos and Ayia Triada), and while working on burnished pottery, I had
the opportunity to re-evaluate the function of this particular surface finishing. In
fact, I have noticed that, although generally considered to be mainly decorative,
burnishing in some cases seemd to have mainly been functional to the use of the pot.
MOre imprtantly, the spindlewhorls from Phaistos, which will be presented at this
conference by P. Militello, often bear incised decoration on one face and burnished
on the other leading me to suppose that perhaps the burnishing might have been a
technical mean to facilitate turning. This would also suggest, of course, low spindlewhorls...
15:34
15:34
@Vassilis: Thanks. The argument was more based on logic, with regard to the
apparent cloth production than linguistic reasoning. I agree that 'argos' is still not
ideal.
@Evi: I guessed it was you... looking forward to meet you soon in Θεσσαλονίκη!
15:34
@papadopoulou Thank you. I would like to discuss your data and comapre with
mine after the conference
15:34
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: @Trevor: very interesting paper!
15:33
@ Trevor van Damme: Sorry, a mispelling: I meant *a-ra-ka-te (long e) 'spindle'.
My apologies.
15:33
@Sophia: Different types of sp. whorls are found in each domestic unit. They
apparently coexist.
15:32
@Vanghelis: Thanks!
15:31
Trevor, Congratulations on a most informative paper.
15:31
@Militello: No. It is a naturally perforated peddle like the ones Poursat showed
yesterday from Malia.
15:31
15:31
@ van Damme: Excellent paper and a very valuable review of silk industries! Two
comments: Greek ηλακάτη seems, in most contexts, to mean 'spindle, and not distaff
(see E. Barber, Prehistoric Textiles (1991), on that). a-ra-ka-te-ja derivation from
άργος 'white', 'shine' is very intriguing. But: the structure of the word seems to imply
the suffix -e-ja and a t-stem. a-ra-ka-te-ja from *a-ra-ka-te 'simple' seems simpler.
None of this is very crucial to the thrust of your paper though.
Thank you Henriette
15:28 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Evi Papadopoulou] I saw that. Perfect....;o)
15:28
@Sascha: It was me.I had a problem with the laptop, switched computer and forgot
to fill in my name.
15:28
@papadopoulou: no perforated stone ring?
15:28
[Comment From Sophia VakirtziSophia Vakirtzi: ]
@Evi : Thank you, i was referring to whorl types, not loomweight types.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:28 Sophia Vakirtzi
15:28
@ Yasar Ersoy: Stella ensured me that her wall paintings have not been published
yet, but I'll check out the article you mention. Thank you for sorting out any possible
misunderstandings!
15:27 Evi Papadopoulou:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] I just did it (Reply Privately)
15:27
@Trevor: there is also a double (functional) bronze axe from Crete, but I dont
remember where I have seen it (sorry). It has a butterfly carved on it.
15:24 ITMEDIA:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Det var det jeg mente. Jeppe kan ikke skrue mere op, så
det må være hende der taler lavt. Anbefaling til alle - brug et headset, så bliver lyden bedre. I
ER BARE GODE. (Reply Privately)
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:24 ITMEDIA
15:23 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Please identify yourself when posting on the chat
15:23
@Sophia: The parallepiped type is represented only by one specimen found near
pyramidal ones. As far as the stone weight it was found in a concentration among 11
clay pyramidal.
15:23
@ Guest: Who thanks a lot? ... and for what?
15:23 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Evi Papadopoulou] Quite ok. I just wanted to let you know why your
posts did not show up in the public chat
15:22 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to ITMEDIA] Nej, Jeppe siger at der er skruet op
15:22 ITMEDIA:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Så må det være hende der taler lavt. Det kan vi ikke
gøre noget ved - desværre (Reply Privately)
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:22 ITMEDIA
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] I had a problem with the keyboard.When I was
pressing the backspace, the message was sent automatically. I don't know why. (Reply
Privately)
15:21 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to ITMEDIA] Der sidder en og taler. Jeppe har angivet dette i titelskiltet på
skærmen
15:20
Peter Pavuk:
@ Evi: that would make it Troy IV.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:20 Peter Pavuk
15:20
15:20
@ Simona Todaro: I'm very interested in your comment to Evi, regarding how the
burnishing could have improved the rotation of spindle whorls. Please, let me know
more about this issue!
Hi Vanghelis, thank you!
15:20 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Evi Papadopoulou] I am not sure I understand. But if you are talking
about the reading of the paper, the timeslot was 20 minutes, as we need to be able to fit in as
many papers as possible. What I meant with my comment was your posts in the chat. There is
no text in the posts you submit to the chat.
15:17
@ Sascha: Thanks a lot.
15:17
Non preoccuparti Pietro, ne parleremo (spero Elio tutto bene).
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] ALmost the last 3 papers were not read. I'm surpsized,
since I sent in all! (Reply Privately)
15:15
@Malgorzata: Yes, we have evidence of linseeds at the site.
15:15
[Comment From Yasar ErsoyYasar Ersoy: ]
@ Sascha Mauel, Fritz Blakholmer: The wall paintings that Stella Miller had
illustrated in her presentations are coming from Lydia dated to the late sixth century
and are all published in color. See, I. Ozgen, et.al., The Lydian Treasure (1996).
Sorry for the belated comment.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:15 Yasar Ersoy
15:15
15:15
@Evanthia Papadopoulou : Thank you Evi for this paper ! Have different types been
found together in concentrations or is there a mixing of types? Typology and weight
range is similar to the EBA Skala Sotiros material (althought some lighter than 10
grammars have also been found there). At Skala Sotiros i have also noted the last
type of use wear trait, almost on all conical whorls.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:15 Sophia Vakirtzi
@ Evi: Your paper was indeed very interesting! I would love to hear it once more,
read by you some time in Thessaloniki soon, what say you?
15:15
@Pavul:The record dates at the end of EBA (2180-2020B.C.). I was surprized to
hear an extremely shortened version of my 20 mininutes paper!
15:15 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Evi Papadopoulou] Evi I am missing a lot of your text in your posts
15:14
@Marie Louise. Sai chi legge il mio intervento? Vorrei mandare una versione
leggermente rivista del power point.
15:14
@Pavuk:
15:14
15:14
Helena Tomas:
Marie-Louise, I sent you my paper and presentation earlier today. I did my best to
record my own reading, but something is wrong with my microphone, and it simply
did not work out. I apologise to you and to the poor 'victim' who will read it.
@Elisabetta. Non ho potuto seguire la fine del tuo intervento perché Elio si è fatto
male )inconvenienti della home edition). Mi dispiace, comunque congratulazioni.
15:14
@papadopoulou: Thank you very much. A lot in common with my paper (to be read
tomorrow, I think), very surprising. A few questions: Crewe used this kind of use
wear to suggest low-whorl spindle; b) is there any difference in distribution among
the different typees of spindle?
15:14
@ Evi: Great paper!
15:13
@Evi: have you considered whether the burnishing could also be meant to improve
the turning of the spindlewhorls?
15:13
15:10
[Comment From Yaşar ErsoyYaşar Ersoy: ]
@ Sascha Mauel and Fritz Blakholmer: The wall paintings you referred to that S.
Miller had shown in her presentations are coming from Lydia and they are all
published in color. See, Ilknur Özgen, et.al., The Lydian Treasure (1996). Sorry for
the late comment.
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:13 Yaşar Ersoy
@ Evi Papadopoulou – Great paper and very nice finds! Do you have any bothanical
evidence for flax cultivation at Archontiko?
Thursday April 22, 2010 15:10 malgorzata siennicka
15:09
Peter Pavuk:
@ Evanthia: Very interesting! The northern Aegean has to cooperate more... I
skipped the exact date of the Phase IV. What part of EBA was it?
15:03
@ Marie-Louise: I just created a new and slightly shortened record of my paper and
sent the ppt to you.
15:01
For Kostas: yes, obviously we cannot say for sure that the Phaistos f. had really
"upraised arms"; nevertheless it is the most close to the Mycenaean figures
15:00
Thank you, Katherina, Sascha, Paul, Nancy, Alessandro, Luca, Karin, Peter, Pietro
and Leviticus ;-) , for your comments!
15:00
Perhaps, before the end of the conference you might reach number 13 that, after all,
was not so bad considering the great results of the conference!!!!
14:58
@ Jacke: well, Eva and Jo just landed from the UK (London)!
14:58
@Sascha:
14:58
How did they do it? I failed at every turn.
14:57
Congratulations to the new arrivals. From the UK it is impossible!
14:57
And now I am told that Eva Andersson Strand and Joanne Cutler have landed as
well (they were stranded in London), so now we are 11!
14:55
Today at KOSMOS in Copenhagen, two colleagues managed to land: Caroline
Zaitoun from France and Carlos Varias Garcia from Spain. Now we are 9!
14:54
[Comment From Fr. RougemontFr. Rougemont: ]
I suggest that we might give medals to the marathon readers of our papers, at the end
of the conference, the nature of the medal being determined by the number of papers
read... :=)
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:54 Fr. Rougemont
14:52
Very intresting Elisabetta
14:52
Thank you to Carole Gillis for reading Elisabetta's paper and so many other papers.
14:51
I am on lien at the moment
14:51
Καληµέρα Ευανθεία, κρίµα που δεν προλάβαµε να 'ρθουµε κι να γνωριστούµε στην
Κοπεγχάγη τελικά... :-( I'll try to call you when returning to Α.Π.Θ. next Tuesday.
Κωτσάκης gave me your number.
14:48
Greetings to all! Sorry, for not being there, but I will be happy to answer any on-line
questions.
14:48
Kostas Paschalidis:
Good job, Elisabetta! If this is the case with the Phaistos fragment, then it looks like
the most "Myceneanized" figurne of the goddess with upraised arms in LM IIIC!
Again, elements of mainland character in so late time in Crete!
14:47
@Admin/Tech (regarding malgorzata siennicka's comment): I'm sure she ment
"please turn from reader to screen", right...!? My connection is poor, and everytime
the speaker is broadcasted, my laptop is heavily overstrained, causing the
transmission to be stuck. With the PP presentations screen, however, there is no
transmission promlem. To be reconsidered!
14:47
For Sascha Mauel: I know the bananas from Kastanas. The "fruits" in Romania are
dated in Neolithic and Chalcolithic
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:47 Neculai Bolohan
14:47
Guest:
@Admin - Thank you, however, the delays seems to appear only when the picture is
switched. The same was yesterday. Perhaps my connection is too slow indeed.
14:43
14:43
@ Agnete & Neculai (concerning the "banana" shaped weight-like objects): At the
toumba of Kastanas, in Greek Macedonia (Early Bronze to Advanced Iron Age) not
a single of these crescent objects has been found, though some 240-260 conical and
pyramidal loom weights of all sizes have been found in nearly all layers.
KosmosAdmin2:
The delays depend on your different individual net connections and their speed. If
the delays are really bad, it is adviced to update/refresh your page. We hope it will
work for you and we are sorry for the inconveniences
14:40
@Fritz: very interesting paper. Congratulations on your results! I am looking
forward to reading it in detail:)
14:40
@Admin/Tech - Please could you not switch the picture from the screen to the
reader? There are again some delays.
14:35
KosmosAdmin2:
Elisabetta, are you on-line? can yu answer questions from the audience?
14:34
@Luca @Fritz what about the custom to mark or tattoo the body, obviously as part
of funeral rites, as attested in Leviticus 19:28: "28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in
your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD"? So there
must have been a custom in the Near East that involved marking the body in that
way.
14:34
Hi again Fritz! I can' t wait to read your paper in detail. I really enjoyed it!
Congratulations for you results!
14:33
14:32
@ Fritz Blakholmer: Interesting papaer! I can't recall all the images of Anatolian
wall paintings shown by Stella Miller-Collett in her lecture "Ancient Wall Painting:
The Anatolian Tradition" at the Annual Meeting of the ASCSA in Athens (and a
week later in Thessaloniki), but as far as I remember there was a wallpainting,
somewhere from western Turkey, depicting a young man, wraped in a cloth with the
very same red/blue star-lined pattern seen in the Minoan fresco of the two ladies. I
found the similiarity striking. However, most of the images Stella presented haven't
been published yet.
@Neculai. Thank you very much. My e-mail is alassen(at)hum.ku.dk
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:32 Agnete Lassen
14:32
@Neculai Bolohan - thank you!
14:31
14:29
for malgorzata siennicka: Nice to hear of you. I'll be sending you tomorow morning
the link. It's a very different oppinion as regard the meaning of the crescent shape
artefacts.
Nancy Thomas:
Fritz, really enjoyed your paper! Tell me more about that lion in your first slide!
14:28
[Comment From Helene WhittakerHelene Whittaker: ]
Fritz, Very interesting paper!!
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:28 Helene Whittaker
14:28
@Fritz: Interesting paper - thank you! Seeing the star-weaving above the Theran
women I wonder if they imagined the sky as covered by a starry weaving.
14:27
Alessandro Greco:
to Fritz: Congratulations
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:27 Alessandro Greco
14:27
@Neculai Bolohan - I would be also very interested in further infos on Romania
objects, if you were so kind: [email protected]
14:27
14:26
A very subtle analysis, fritz. Agree with the interpretation of dots and giamalakis
seal. For the interpretation of last slides, Maria Shaw saw "nails" in the Room 13
painting, which means the imitatiation of real curtains.
Congratulations Fritz! An enjoyable paper and broad perspective!
14:25
@Fritz: I liked you paper! In the last Sheffield round Table there was a good paper
by T. Carter, though he was not present :) and it can be of interest for you as regards
the possible cultural distinction between Cyclades and Mochlos in EBA: quoting his
abstract “Cyclades, with its essentially ‘Neolithic’ aesthetic, involving a gaudy
mixture of temporary and permanent corporeal modification: depilation, painting,
tattooing and adornment”…and Mochlos adopting and performing practices
associated with Near Eastern states, “with their emphases on unmarked and clothed
bodies and the use of goldwork”.
14:24
For agnete: I'll be sending you an useful link. Please let me know your mail adress.
14:24
[Comment From Karen FosterKaren Foster: ]
For Fritz: Wonderful paper, as always. Years ago, the Laura Ashley company turned
the pattern in the House of the Ladies into actual cloth!
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:24 Karen Foster
14:24
Peter Pavuk:
Hi, Fritz, very nice paper! I especially liked the final part!
14:24
John Younger:
@Fritz: real nice!
14:20
@Neculai. Yes, I know. As far as I know, they appear in most of Central Europe in
the Neol. and also further south later.
14:14
For Agnete Lassen: There are some crescent shape artefacts in Romania dated in
Neolithic and Chalcolithic
14:14
In Audacity you can adjust the volume too, at least after recording.
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:14 Sander Brabander
14:11
About soundproblems: Some applications that can capture sound will allow you to
increase input volume. I use AudioHijack for this purpose, but it is Mac only. But I
am sure there must be similar applications for all operating systems. Alas, Audacity
seems to lack it. Or did I only overlook it?
14:10
Even here in the Cretan Hinterland I can hear nicely with headphones :-)
14:08
With ear phones the sound gets much better!
14:08
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Jack: I suggest plugging speakers or using head phones.
14:07
Multifunctionality ;)
14:07 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Jack Davis] the experts here say that you can improove the sound in the
low right corner of the piture, or use ear phones- Hope it works
14:06
Judith Weingarten:
the speaker=the presenter=the author=FRITZ BLAKOMER live = How very
original! :-)
14:06
Judith Weingarten:
the speaker=the presenter=the author=FRITZ BLAKOMER live
14:05
14:05
[Comment From Felicitas MaederFelicitas Maeder: ]
Hello to all of you! I'm new here. Nahum ben Yehuda from Israel just told me about
this on line conference. Great! I'm studying sea-silk and so most curious of the paper
of Brendan Burke.
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:05 Felicitas Maeder
Alessandro Greco:
Incredible!
14:05
[Comment From Jack DavisJack Davis: ]
Also in Athens we can barely hear the presentations. Can something be done to
bring up the sound please!
Thursday April 22, 2010 14:05 Jack Davis
14:03
And now, ladies and gentlemen, an exceptional KOSMOS situation: the speaker=the
presenter=the author=FRITZ BLAKOMER live in Copenhagen!
14:03
@ Emily: Could you imagine amphorae were actually ritually >dressed
14:02
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: I find that on several occasion a paper finishes, and I am looking
at my computer screen and clapping.
13:58
Oh...how stupid of me! Of course, like so many of us, you too haven't made it to
Copenhagen. Well, guess you have to be satisfied with an email contact.
13:56
Alas, Anne is not in Copenhagen...
13:55
@ Anne Chapin: Jan Stubbe might be sitting in the audience!? In any case he's in
Copenhagen, and according to the original ("pre-volcanis") programme he would
have guided you through the exhibition at the Glyptotek. So try to chatch him, whilst
being in Copenhagen.
13:54 Guest:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Thank you and wish you good luck ! (Reply
Privately)
13:50
Thank you Marsia! I am looking forward to your email. Ελπίζω να τα πούµε
σύντοµα
13:49 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Jacke Phillips] Dear Jacke Phillips. You might need to re-start your
browser
13:47
webmaster: I've just had a bleep and went offline. I'm back on but don't have the
'panel' screen now. Could I have it back, please?
13:47
[Comment From Akrotiri ExcavationAkrotiri Excavation: ]
Is it possible to turn up the volume of the microphone ?
Thursday April 22, 2010 13:47 Akrotiri Excavation
13:47
13:47
@Katerina. Thank you very much for this great paper. I will email you at some point
so we discuss some points a bit further. I have got your address. Τι όµορφο µωράκι!
Να σας ζήσει!
Thank you to Kristian Kristiansen for reading Emily's paper for her.
13:47
hello from thessaloniki Greece!!!
13:47
Very interesting paper, Annette. I have some comments about recutting of cylinder
seals in MB Kültepe, namely the addition of cups in the hands of the seated figure in
the presentationn scene. That might be relevant for your argument.
13:47
Anne Chapin:
@Louise, yes, in the published version I will try to address issues of gender
ambiguity, at least in the footnotes...Also, the multiple piece/figure issue. @Sascha,
thanks for the suggestion re: photo technology. I'll follow up. @Annette: skin color
is likely related at least in part to age and social status. Thanks to all for your very
helpful comments!
13:46 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Thank you. When you post a comment, please write your name in
the window immediately above the window where you write your comment
13:45
carole gillis:
Anne-thank you. It wa a very interesting paper. Do you know of an article writtn
about 20-25 years ago by Gøsta Sævlund in Sweden where he mintains that the
'boxing boys' from AK are actually boxing girls?
13:45 Guest:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] PhD. Neculai Bolohan University Al. I. Cuza
Department of Ancient History and Archaelogy Iasi-ROMANIA 0040-232-201633
[email protected] (Reply Privately)
13:44
Thanks Anne
13:44 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Akrotiri Excavation] Unfortunately the volume cannot be turned up
further.
13:43
S'efxaristo poli Sascha
13:41
Anne Chapin:
@Carole - thanks so much for reading - it was very clear, and I really appreciate
your help.
13:39
Peter Pavuk:
Go, go, go, Emily!!!
13:37
carole gillis:
thanks, Sabine
13:37
No Carole, you did not speak slowly. it was very clear, thank you
13:37
Anne Chapin:
@Jacke - there is a nice watercolor drawing of a red figure on a red ground (from
Knossos) on-line in the Evans Archive.
13:36
@Carole: You did a great job in summarizing the end
13:34
@ Kathrine: Ti charitoméno ki oraío moráki! Congratulations with your joy of
motherhood.
13:33
Jacke Phillips:
Anne - where? I don't know them, or maybe I do and never noticed....
13:33
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Anne, forgot to add, loved your discussion of other skin tones, breast
depictions, & the ice skater
13:32
Anne Chapin:
@ Jacke - there are some red figures painted on red backgrounds in NP frescoes.
13:32
John Younger:
@Anne Chapin: thanks! very balanced. And as usual, sensible.
13:32
sorry, Anne, for making a botch of the last pages--i perhaps read too slowly. .:-(
13:32
Maybe skin colour is not just linked to gender, but also to a life in the open or in the
house and thus to some extent to social standing? E.g. the peasant has to work in the
fields, the king spends his time in the shades of the palace. Has anyone tried this
hypothesis yet? I am aware that this is very bland and based on clichees about who
is doing what kind of work, which would have to be tested as well. But it sprung to
my head when I saw the red figured fisherman and the white skinned priest king.
13:32
@ Anne: Very interesting papaer! Concerning the colour tracing of white, yellow or
orange/brown pigmentation I suggest you contact Jan Stube Østergaard at the
Copenhagen Carlsberg Glyptotek. In his lecture, recently held at the Annual
Meeting at the Danish Institute at Athens, he mentioned a new photographic method
developed at the Glyptotek. The investigation doesn't harm the artefakt at all, it only
cost little money and takes no time to prepare.
13:32
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @Anne: will you deal with the multiple figures proposed for the Priest
Thing in your published version? Do you deal with the issue of gender ambiguity as
in depictions of Hatshepsut?
13:31
Jane Johnsen:
We have to limit the papers to 20 minutes. If they exceed 20 minutes, they will have
to be cut short. We apologise for the inconvenience, but the schedule is very tight
and we wish to be able to present all the programmed papers. You are welcome to
send revised and reduced versions of your papers if you fear they exceed the time
limit, or even better narrated versions of maximum 20 minutes
13:29
13:27
Anne Chapin:
Sorry, folks! The paper was under 20 minutes when I timed it. I can send the
complete paper to anyone who might be interested. Carole, thank you so much for
reading it for me!
Jacke and Vanghelis, Yes much will be linen - silk will only be for the most special
items.
13:27
I am online to answer questions. Thank you Fritz for reading my paper!
13:27
Thank you, Anne, for tackling such a difficult topic. I look forward to the full
published detail.
13:27
The message about the 20 minutes is from me.
13:23
We cannot broad¨cast the entire lecture but you can ask questions to Anne Charpin
here and continue the discussion. 20 minutes go fast! Sorry
13:22
Thank you Alessandro
Thursday April 22, 2010 13:22 Maurizio Del Freo
13:21
Jacke Phillips:
The torso of the Priest-king could not have been red, if only because the little
remaining of the background IS red.
13:18
Alessandro Greco:
To Maurizio: thank you, Maurizio. Akoraijo is a great problem. I think that the first
problem to face up is the missing attestation of akorajo in the D series. But there are
some interesting terms in Ur III documentation, very close to what we think about
akorajo...
13:14
[Comment From Vanghelis KyriakidisVanghelis Kyriakidis: ]
Janice: you all know of course the Panagiotakopoulou article in Antiquity. If we
want see through, I am not the textile expert, but think that linen can be more
transparent than silk (but maybe wrong).
13:13
@ Alessandro: Congratulations. The parallel with the Ur III texts sounds interesting.
Do the a-ko-ra-jo flocks play some role in your theory?
Thursday April 22, 2010 13:13 Maurizio Del Freo
13:10
Jacke Phillips:
Hi Janice, sorry to not see you as well. Could it not be either, or both? Surely silk
cocoons would not have been commonplace items, even at the palaces. The linen
may have been used when silk was not possible, for whatever reason..
13:09
Janice and all sorry not to see you all. Its so good to be able to do this and
congratulations to Marie Louise, Robert and the centre for making this happen.
13:08
@ Anne: the introductory comparison with the skater is very convincing - not least
because is it a photo!
13:07
Alessandro, you are welcome
Thursday April 22, 2010 13:07 Jørg Weilhartner
13:06
Alessandro Greco:
Jorg thank you again! you have been perfect
13:05
13:05
Alessandro Greco:
yes, of course existed. but the D series is a census of sheep and not a note on their
consumption. for ex, the Dm series may indicate some animals ready to be eaten, but
is not a case if its structure is quite different from the other D tablets
A view from the north - There's a lot of crescent shape artefacts in Romania. Sorry
for the delay
13:04
Anne Chapin:
@Judith, yes, I think "harem pants" might give a sense of what I see in the
seals/paintings.
13:04
Vanghelis, Good to ay hello again. Thanks for your comments. Linen or silk for the
transparency. What is your current thinking?
13:04
John Younger:
Marie-Louise: I think (but don't know) that my problems with a recorded PPT was
that I recorded it on a MAC -- I'll try this afternoon re-recording on a PC and send it
to you this evening.
13:03
[Comment From Judith WeingartenJudith Weingarten: ]
I may have missed the citation (if so, apologies) but there are a few sealings from
HT and ZA showing females in what I called 'harem pants'. Does this fit?
13:03
ashlarblocks:
Louise: @ M-L: I tried 3 times to do a voiced ppt, but large chunks of my text were
not recorded, so I'd prefer to have mine read. Thanks.
13:03 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Could you please identify yourself. Thanks. Best Jane
13:02
@Alessandro: Are you implying that no animals where eaten from the flocks?
13:02
13:01
Jacke, So sorry not to see you at KOSMOS. Yes, it could be fine linen - and that is
what I thought for years when looking at the seals. However the extreme
transparency of some garments and the finding of the silk cocoon at Thera has
inclined me to see silk. I await the later papers on silk.
Marie-Louise Nosch:
To all KOSMOS participants who have sent ppt to me: if you have the possibility to
send me a voiced ppt, it would help A LOT. Thank you in advance!
13:01
Alessandro Greco:
the problem is that in LB we have the abbreiaviton for missing, that is o = opero. ki
is always registered with ewes, and it is surely a kind of sheep-lambs. we have
missing ki lambs, and missing wool non-produced by them in the same tablets
12:59
Anne Chapin:
Re: pants v. chiton - the garments appear to wrap around the legs of the women, and
each leg seems to be separately wrapped. So, to my eye, they look more like pants
than a chiton. The term "divided skirt" is sometimes used to distinguish the garment
from pants, a term which evokes today's garment.
12:59
@Alessandro: great paper!!!!
12:58
@Alessandro: could KI be from Linear A, "lacking", as in "lacking fleece"??
12:58
Alessandro Greco:
Thank all you
12:56
12:56
Alessandro, very attractive approach and interpretations for WE, Ki and Ki ne in the
Mycenaean tablets from the evidence of Ur III period, at least as a more precise
suggestion. Congratulations!
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:56 Carlos Varias
Alessandro Greco:
He is perfect! I am very gratefeul to him!
12:55
I'm hearing fine now -- don't know what the problem was. But Jörg is clear!
12:55
12:55
@ Janice and Vanghelis: Thank you very much for your answers! I fully agree with
the interpretation of an high-quality and diaphanous garment. However, I was
wondering if the "pants" in the glyptic images are pants indeed or rather that kind of
chiton-like garment reconstructed by Jones. I (as a non-specialist in Minoan dress)
am wondering if we should think of "pants" at all?
Jane Johnsen:
Jörg asked me to let you know that he might not at times use the correct
pronounciation of the Ur III Terminology
12:54
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Alessandro, it is great to combine wth the Ur III texts, thank you, it can really shed
new light on the lambs /lambs wool
12:54
Anne Chapin:
@Janice: I live pretty close to Atlanta - how long are you visiting?
12:52
12:52
to Crowley: Thank you for your very interesting paper. I have a question belonging
to hats and hope its not a revise of what you sad. Could we say, that head wearing is
not a gender sign? I ask that belonging also to the mycenaen terracotta-figurines,
which wear sometimes hats.
Alessandro Greco:
Thank you a lot Jorg!
12:52
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Jörg Weilhartner kindly accepted to read Alessandro's paper and we are greteful for
this!
12:51
Louise, Thanks. We must talk of hats when I am back in OZ.
12:50
Anne, Thanks. What a pity we do not meet at KOSMOS!
12:50
12:50
sorry...The link between Ayia Triada wallpainting female and the kneeling ladies
Militello has argued on his analysis of the wallpainting and myself in 97 in the
Kadmos paper (where I was arguing that they were see-through dresses)
John, Thanks. Sorry to miss you at KOSMOS.
12:50
Janice: Arianne Marcar has in her PhD supports and has argued herself with
youabout the preponderant use of prestigious garments in iconography. Ute and
Janice: The link between the Ayia Triada, and the kneeling ladys (on baetyl)
12:50
Great paper, Janice. But I'm wondering if the silk actually is very very fine linen,
which is very silky in its feel and draping qualities. The Egyptians produced
extremely fine linen, mainly for royalty but some extremely fine linen also has been
found in elite tombs. Some of Gillian Vogelsang-Eastwood's publications would
discuss this - I'm nowhere near the books right now, but can get further information
when I have access to the books.
12:49
Alessandro, Thank you for your comments.
12:49
[Comment From Karen FosterKaren Foster: ]
Hi from New Haven. Jan, Great paper. What is the earliest Aegean evidence for
showing folds in garments?
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:49 Karen Foster
12:49
[Comment From Maria AnastasiadouMaria Anastasiadou: ]
@Crowley Very interesting paper. Thank you!
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:49 Maria Anastasiadou
12:49
@Jörg -- can't hear!
12:49
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Thank you to Janice for sending a voiced ppt. It makes eveything much easier to us
here in Copenhagen! THANKS!
12:47
Anne Chapin:
Very fine paper, Janice! Thank you.
12:45
Margarita Gleba:
Would it be possible to make sure the readers have the microphone as close to their
mouth as possible - it makes a difference for the sound level, which is still very low
12:45
@Agnete - Great! Thanks a lot: [email protected]
12:45
Agnete Lassen:
@malgorzata. I can send you the preliminary report I wrote after the experiment.
What is your e-mail address?
12:45
@Agnete - I have read the abstract on the ICAANE home page. Are there any CTR
reports on this?
12:45
Janice Crowley:
Ute, This could well be so. As you heard in the paper, I think that the long pants are
a very important clothing item.
12:45
Marie-Louise Nosch:
You are most welcome to post questions and comments to Alessandro Greco - he is
on-line
12:44
Agnete Lassen:
I presented my results in ICAANE last week, but obviously that will not help you.
12:44
Annette Højen Sørensen:
Thanks - Agnete - that would be great: klaahn(at)hum.au.dk
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:44 Annette Højen Sørensen
12:44
Thanks, Janice!
12:43
Agnete Lassen:
Yes, I can, Marie-Louise. Where to begin?
12:43
@Agnete - Hi! Would tell us where to find the results of your experiments with the
crescent-shaped objects?
12:42
Agnete Lassen:
Absolutely Annette, I can mail you the references and my comments to it. (But next
week - I have another conference starting tomorrow, so I am a bit stressed)
12:41
Marie-Louise Nosch:
For Agnete: could you comment on the crescent shaped loom weights discussed
yesterday, and tell about your experiments?
12:41
Marisa - Thanks!
12:40
Hi Agnete - maybe we could have a look at it at one point?
12:39
@Annette. I understand. Your paper has given me food for thought. Thank you.
12:39
@Annette. Very interesting paper! I am wondering if some of the recuttings of seals
I see in MB Kültepe are connected. In one example the added motif is a pointed cup
in the hand of the seated figure in a presentation scene.
12:38
Thak you Marisa - The reinterpretation of LUGAL was made by Guichard in his
monograph of 2005 - Yes I am sure this applies for Egypt as well, but time and
space was limited...
12:36
Alessandro Greco:
As always, Janise's papers are clear, wonderful and useful!
12:36 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Sorry guest, but would you please identify yourself
12:35
@Annette. Wonderful paper. I have to admit it was the first time I came across this
LUGAL interpretation. I am pretty sure that your 'prestigious metal cups and jugs
must-haves theory' also applies to Egypt (long-discussed Tod treasure?)
12:34
Good morning everybody! @ Janice Crowley: you describe the garment worn by the
female carrier of a double axe as "long pants". I was wondering if this garment is the
same as those worn by female kneeling figures, those which Bernice Jones
reconstructed by means of the kneeling female figure from Hagia Triada as some
kind of chiton-like garment. Do you think these are all the same garments?
12:34
Goodmorning from the Akrotiri Excavation!
12:34
Good morning from Athens! I am sorry I cannot watch all the time, so far it is great!
Greetings to everyone!
12:34 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Kostas Paschalidis] Thank you. Glad to help
12:34
ashlarblocks:
Louise: Hi Jan, great paper. I was interested to see so many kinds of headgear on
seals when they only occur on 2 bronze figurines.
12:33
It was unexpected but it is great to hear your voice, exactly as if you were with us
here. All the best to Jeff and you and see you soon down under.
12:33 Kostas Paschalidis:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Thank you for such an immediate response! You are
doing a great job, all of you! (Reply Privately)
12:33
Hello everybody! Sad I can't be with you after all. I'm stuck half the way between
Greece and Denmark, but it's certainly pointless being mad at a volcano! Greetings
from Cologne*
12:32 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Kostas Paschalidis] Dear Koatas. I have now corrected the title on the
webpage.
12:28
Thanks, Marie-Louise. I am on-line to answer questions.
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Could you please correct the word Morrors with
Mirrors on my paper's title. It is misspelled on the Thursday's programm as shown on this
page's link! Thank you . (Constantinos Paschalidis) (Reply Privately)
12:26 Guest:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Cant you see my name? I typed it into the'your name'
space (Reply Privately)
12:25 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Could you please state your name, when posting. Best, Jane
12:23
Marie-Louise Nosch:
It is great to hear your voice, Janice! But we miss you here in Copenhagen.
12:23
Hi all!
12:22
[Comment From Annette Højen SørensenAnnette Højen Sørensen: ]
Louise: I did indeed include Assafs paper - there was no room for all details here - I
will expand on the issue in the volume...
12:22
Good morning everybody from Catania by myself and Pietro Militello!!!
12:22
Carlos Varias: Good morning from Copenhagen to everybody
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:22 Carlos Varias
12:22
Thanks Luca!
12:21
Thank you very much Louise
12:21
ashlarblocks:
Louise H.: Wonderful paper! You might want to have a look at Assaf Yasur
Landau's paper in the DAIS volume.
12:21
Hello Annette! Good to see you there after some years. Good paper!
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Thank you for notifying me! Good news! (Reply
Privately)
12:19 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Kostas Paschalidis] Kostas, MMarie Louise tells that Petyas narrative ppt
works now - finally!
12:17
Judith Weingarten:
Yes, Louise, I am reminded of Colin Macdonald's discovery of a hierarchy of
drinking vessels in the MM IB deposit from Early Magazine A, Knossos
12:17
[Comment From Kostas PaschalidisKostas Paschalidis: ]
Kalimera from Athens! I was looking forward it since yesterady night! Petya, if you
are online, get in yahho chat and lets try to do your recording step by step
12:17
[Comment From sofiasakkarisofiasakkari: ]
Hello!
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:17 sofiasakkari
12:15
ashlarblocks:
Louise Hitchcock: @Annette: this is a fantastic paper. It's about time we're using
Near Eastern history to shed light on Aegean archaeology in a mainstream Aegean
conference!
12:14
Good morning from rural Kentucky, USA.
12:12
[Comment From sofiasakkarisofiasakkari: ]
goodmorning everyone
Thursday April 22, 2010 12:12 sofiasakkari
12:12
Helena Tomas:
Good morning from Croatia.
12:11
Welcome to all!
12:11
Good morning (still) in the UK!
12:11
You are welcome to post questions and comments to Annette Højen Sørensen
12:07
[Comment From ashlarblocksashlarblocks: ]
Louise H. Good morning from Australia fellow Aegeanists!
12:07
Margarita Gleba:
Hello from Berlin!
12:06
Good morning everyone from Sharjah, UAE
12:05
Alessandro Greco:
Good morning everybody
12:04
Hi Fritz! Good morning :)
12:03
Hello and dzień dobry from Warsaw!
12:02
For sound Audacity works for Linux as well.
12:02
Jane Johnsen:
Just to let you all know. There might be a slight delay in showing your chat. But it
will be posted.
12:01
12:01
Good morning! For mysterious reasons the chat is now works on my Mac, maybe
rebooting did it. So I can now have the stream and the chat on my laptop and move
around. Very nice for coffee breaks.
Hello, anybody knows what to use to capture sound and image if we run linux?
12:01
Looking forward to another great day of KOSMOS!
12:01
Morning! Hi Katherina! ;-)
12:01
11:56
Good morning, all--Marie Louise asked me to write as they are so busy just before
broadcast time. Some of you have asked about indicating tea/coffee breaks so that
you can rush to your kitchens and get a cup. Unfortunately we take none!! So rush
now and bring in a stack of provisions by your computers :-)
Good morning all from sunny spring-y Italy.
11:54
Peter Pavuk:
Sorry, that was a message from yesterday! :-)
11:51
[Comment From Peter PavukPeter Pavuk: ]
Am tired just like after a day of a "proper" conference :-P
11:50
11:45
BTW for those interested to capture the voice of a paper you can record with open
source software AUDACITY (there are others too, but I know this one) and if you
want to capture both sound and image you can do that with CAMSTUDIO again
open source and free on the internet.
@Katerina: I am looking forward to your paper. Greetings from sunny (that makes a
change) Lichfield, UK.
11:45
Good morning. I am looking forward to today's papers.
11:36 Sander Brabander:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Ah, okay. I was already suspecting that. Thanks for the
info! (Reply Privately)
11:35
Good morning everybody!!
11:35
Why can't I see my own comments in chat?
11:35 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Sander Brabander] Dear Sander. There is a delay, because the event of
the day has not properly opened yet
11:34
Good morning!
11:34
Thank you all for this unique oportunity
11:34
Good morning from Sharjah :) I will be waiting...
11:34
[Comment From martelli isabellemartelli isabelle: ]
congratulation to Copenhagen, it was a first great interesting day. good night and
lots of thanks for this organisation! bravi
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:34 martelli isabelle
11:34
[Comment From Tzigounaki AnastasiaTzigounaki Anastasia: ]
Thank you so much!!!! Agree with Judith about coffee break and sound : )
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:34 Tzigounaki Anastasia
11:34
Nice to share this media experience. It's a good opportunity "to globalize the
Kosmos".
11:34
Nice to share this media experience. It's a good opportunity "to globalize the
Kosmos" !!!
11:34
[Comment From Yo MarosYo Maros: ]
Congratulations hope that your work will be an examle to all the future conferences.
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:34 Yo Maros
11:34
So sad that I can't be with you these days, as I am stuck somewhere between
Düsseldorf and Cologne, half the way between Greece and Denmark... But then
again: so gratifying that you have understood to make the best of this situation!
There is certainly no point in being mad at a volcano! Unfortunately I couldn't join
the web cast today (except for the last contribution), but I am looking very much
forward to the following days inputs.
11:34
[Comment From Jean-Robert Laffineur@HomJean-Robert Laffineur@Hom: ]
Congratulations for this great event!
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:34 Jean-Robert Laffineur@Hom
11:33
So sad I can't be with you... but so gratifying to see, that you have managed to make
the best of the situation. There is finally no point in being mad with a volcano!
11:33
[Comment From Jean-Robert LaffineurJean-Robert Laffineur: ]
Congratulations for this great event!
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:33 Jean-Robert Laffineur
11:33
[Comment From anaya Sarpakianaya Sarpaki: ]
Thank you for this memorable event!..from Crete
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:33 anaya Sarpaki
11:33
[Comment From Colin MacdonaldColin Macdonald: ]
Thanks very much.
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:33 Colin Macdonald
11:33
Thank you everybody. It was truly exciting and wonderful. See you tomorrow.
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:33 Angelos Papadopoulos
11:33
Such a great success! Thank you all for this joyful and rich session
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:33 Yaşar Ersoy
11:33
Congratulations for great event!
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:33 Jean-Robert Laffineur
11:33
It was a great afternoon!!! Thanks!!
11:28
Jane Johnsen:
Goodmorning all
11:21
Alex:
Morning Katherina! The broadcast begins at noon today!
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:21 Alex
11:19
Good morning everyone. Is the broadcast on hold?
11:18
Alex:
Hello again :) The chat is open, more to come at 12!
Thursday April 22, 2010 11:18 Alex
20:07
Annette Pohlke:
Good night everyone, see you tomorrow.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:07 Annette Pohlke
20:06
KosmosAdmin1:
Good night everyone! We will all be back tomorrow:)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:06 KosmosAdmin1
20:06
Judith Weingarten:
Another tiny suggestion: could you indicate your tea/coffee breaks in the
programme so that those of us on-line can rush to the kitchen at the right times :-)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:06 Judith Weingarten
20:02
Guest:
And now, where will we go for lunch... if we were in Copenhagen!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:02 Guest
20:01
emanuela alberti:
Great day! thank to you all! A domani!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 emanuela alberti
20:01
Thank you for the unprecedented experience
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Lena Papazoglou
20:01
I wish this idea would be applied for Cretological as well!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Georgia Flouda
20:01
[Comment From Efi TistsaEfi Tistsa: ]
GOOD NIGHT FROM HERAKLION CRETE. Everything were Wonderful!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Efi Tistsa
20:01
Sometimes XIII is a good number!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Jacke Phillips
20:01
Sound is much improved if you use earphones. Congrats on an excellent digital
effort today!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Susan Ferrence
20:01
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Congratulations to the organisers, readers and contributors. Thank you !
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Sophia Vakirtzi
20:01
Wonderful. Thanks to all.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 Loeta Tyree
20:01
fantastic event
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:01 anna lucia dagata
20:00
[Comment From Tom BroganTom Brogan: ]
Who would have known that the choice of the title Kosmos would literally mean
bringing the papers to the world. Many thanks to all who read our papers
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:00 Tom Brogan
20:00
Congratulations to all the organizers! Thank you so much!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:00 Kostas Paschalidis
20:00
Congratulations Marie Louise and Robert.
20:00
20:00
Brilliant. Congratulations to CTR and the University -- and especially to the readers
of so many excellent papers -- and to all of you up in the north, . What a day! A
domani. (please try to improve the sound if you can).
Fabulous!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 20:00 John Younger
19:59
19:59
@ Tom Brogan: this is really wonderful material. Do you know at what stage in the
cloth production process the dying is occurring? (Finished cloth? Thread/yarn?
Fibers?)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:59 Julie Hruby
Very interesting paper.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:59 Marsia Bealby
19:59
Congratulations Marie-Louise and Robert on a great first day and thank-you to all of
the readers of papers.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:59 Marcia Nugent
19:59
Louise Hitchcock: Good night from Melbourne where it's 4AM and thanks for a
fantastic first day!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:59 ashlarblocks
19:59
A wonderful experience! Thanks a lot to all in Copenhagen!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:59 malgorzata siennicka
19:58
Jane Johnsen:
Goodbye for the first da. Thanks to all who have contributed so actively to the web
chat
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:58 Jane Johnsen
19:58
Annette Pohlke:
Many thanks indeed. It was a great event so far.
19:57
Margarita Gleba:
Great first day! Thanks to the organsing team and all the participants who have been
reading!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:57 Margarita Gleba
19:57
Thank you Nancy for reading todays last paper.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:57 Annette Højen Sørensen
19:54
emanuela alberti:
Thank you so much!
19:51
Emanuela is right.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:51 Yaşar Ersoy
19:51
Jane Johnsen:
@Emanuela Alberti. I have asked the tech to stop switching
19:50
emanuela alberti:
please do not "switch" the image to speaker, I miss something each time!
19:43
[Comment From Poor Graduate StudentPoor Graduate Student: ]
This is a wonderful opportunity for those of us unequipped for international travel
this week. Kudos! I'm so grateful to be allowed to participate.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:43 Poor Graduate Student
19:42
@Tom Brogan: Do you have got already results of the organic residue analysis? It is
great that you know what chemical substances you have to look for.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:42 Tobias Muehlenbruch
19:41
emanuela alberti:
Great excavations! And proper purple plants from Crete are not so common! I think
there is some MMII evidence at Palaikastro and Kouphounissi too
19:40
[Comment From M. Del FreoM. Del Freo: ]
@ Tom Brogan: I have heard that some new linear A documents have been found in
Chryssi. Can you tell us if they come from the B1 building?
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:40 M. Del Freo
19:40
Congratulations Tom and Philip for this admiring set of projects!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:40 Luca Girella
19:40
Thank you Carole for reading yet another paper - this time on the workshop at
Pacheia Ammos
19:39
Margarita Gleba:
@Tom, Phil and Stavroula: wonderful 2 papers! thanks for your meticulous work!
19:38
@Tom Brogan: Congratulations Pefka is amazing!
19:38
Louise H. @Tom et al.: very interesting papers!
19:35
Amazing work, dear Tom! Thanks to you and your collaborators in these projects!
19:33
CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE! PROFESSIONAL WORK. NOT
EVERYBODY AFFORD TO ATTEND SUCH INTERESTING EVENTS. KEEP
UP THE GOOD WORK.
19:33
[Comment From martelli isabellemartelli isabelle: ]
thank you to Ingeborg for reading my paper! and to all of you for your interest and
comments; for the bronze wheels I follow Verucchio interpretation such as possible
spindles whorls
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:33 martelli isabelle
19:33
Well, I was remarking on Kostas comment, not on the fact that the pp was two slides
haed! Congratulations, amazing paper!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:33 Simona Todaro
19:28
Jane Johnsen:
@Tom Brogan. I apologise for the dely in posting your comments.
19:27
we are two slides ahead. Can we go back
19:27
It is amazing, indeed!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:27 Simona Todaro
19:27
we are one or two slides ahead of the talk
19:26
Thank you Henriette for reading the paper on the murex dye industry on Chryssi
19:22
Margarita Gleba:
@everyone dealing with purple dye: Murex is an obsolete name for the species - the
correct biological name is Hexaplex trunculus
19:16
Kostas Paschalidis:
Well, what an excavation!!!
19:08
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Margareta Gleba : indeed, however this one really is ambiguous, not only because
of its size.
19:04
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Janice Crowley : you are welcome
19:02
19:01
Margarita Gleba:
@Sophia: considering the fineness of yarn that was achieved already in the Bronze
Age it should not be at all surprising to have extremely light spindle whorls. Thank
you for raising the bead/whorl issue again!
Sophia, Many thanks.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:01 Janice Crowley
19:01
19:01
[Comment From Reinhard JungReinhard Jung: ]
Good point, Pietro. Especially the lead specimens must be considerably heavier than
the bronze ones. In Italian prehistory they often used to be interpreted as pin heads,
but there are almost no examples with the shaft preserved
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:01 Reinhard Jung
Sophia Vakirtzi:
I could hear if fine from the beginning. I hope the rest did too
19:01
@ Luca Girella: Yes, Kilian published a fragment from Tiryns in the
Archaeologischer Anzeiger.
19:01
There is another such pithos with stamped wheel-motifs from Delphi, often
overlooked (probably to be dated to LH IIIC Advanced)
19:00
Ida Demant:
not speaker - microphone.... I must be tired :-)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 19:00 Ida Demant
19:00
Ida Demant:
sorry for forgetting the speaker in the beginning - I hope you got the most
eccential... very interesting paper, Sophia.
18:59
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Kostas : euxaristisis mou!
18:59
Thank you Ida for reading yet another paper - this time by Sophia Vakirtzi
18:58
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Thank you Ida for reading my paper !
18:58
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Sophia!
18:54
18:50
pietro militello:
Again, I had the impression that the collected wheels were of different dimensions
(and also shapes). The methodological question is if some of them could be used to
spin, and again: what is the weight and how large is the hole?
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:54 pietro militello
yes, Reinhard, if I am not wrong pithoi with impressed wheels come from Asine and
Tiryns
18:49
@Yaşar Ersoy – thanks a lot!
18:48
That is to say, in Mycenaean Greece they stamped pithoi with those wheels (my first
remark was not clear enough)
18:48
@malgorzata siennicka. Sorry I was offline briefly. Yes there are crescent objects at
EBA Limantepe included in the paper I referred to before. I am sorry for the delay
getting back to you.
18:48
Louise H. @Martelli: small bronze wheels were found in the 12th c. "temple" at Tell
Miqne/Ekron where they were believed to come from a Cypriot style bronze stand
with wheels.
18:47
18:47
@Isabelle Martelli: Isabelle you might be aware but the the solid wheels from the
Tarquinia Archaeological Museum are very similar to those on display at the
Archaeological Institute at UCL from the Near East that are attached to miniature
chariots.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:47 Josephine Verduci
And why using gold for makimg these tools?
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:47 Robert Laffineur
18:47
18:46
Matthäus has published an article on Italian-Mycenaean relationships in Jahrbuch
des DAI 1980 p. 109 ff., where he has collected many "wheels" of the type
discussed by Martelli. Interestingly these wheels were used as stamps on pithoi (but
not in Italy).
Ooops! I meant Isabelle Martelli -- sorry! This wondrous event is confusing my poor
brain!
18:44
Don't some of the larger figures from Mycenae have perforations at their jaw-lines?
I haven't looked to see what people have said about them, but they're very strange; I
want them to be places to attach beards, but some of the figures look more female.
In any case, if something's being attached, that speaks to the idea of dressing them
up.
18:44
pietro militello:
@Martelli very Interesting and useful collection of possible (and often missed)
textile tool objects. However, wheel, which have a long discussion (R.Jung could
surely add more) cast some doubts. What about weight and above all hole diameter?
18:44
not sos ure I do...it is so tempting to see parallels, but then there are such reat
differences in the societies...
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:44 carole gillis
18:44
A very nice and convincing paper, Isabelle
18:43
18:43
Helene Whittaker: your "chariot wheel" spindle whorls, esp. those with stirrupspokes stamped clay pots in LH IIIC -- I'll send the reference to you later. I also saw
some precisely identical examples in a Visigoth (!) exhibit in Rome several years
ago.
Sure, Louise
18:43
Thank you, Ingeborg for reading Martelli's paper
18:40
[Comment From Helene von HofstenHelene von Hofsten: ]
Louise, I would agree with that!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:40 Helene von Hofsten
18:40
Thank you, Carole!
18:40
Louise H. @Robert: Agreed, but doesn't it occur much earlier in the Near East?
18:40
Robert, absolutely!
18:40
Thank you Tobias! Fritz, nice to hear from you; I am envious that you managed to
make it to Copenhagen in person.
18:38
Louise H.: @Helene, I tend to see it as a common language of prestige
18:38
Hi, Helene--really interesting.
18:38
Dressing figures is also very Greek.
18:38
Nice to hear from you, Georgia.
18:34
Louise, I tend to think that there may have been a lot of parallels between the Near
East and the Greek mainland in the later part of the Mycenaean period, not
necessarily influence one way or the other, but perhaps a commonality of practice
over a large area.
18:34
@ Helene Whittaker: In the Lower Citadel of Tiryns, LH III C Advanced, in room
115 Klaus Kilian found a figurine next to some beads - which may have to be
connected with the figurine.
18:30
I will contact Agnete Lassen, thank you, Richard Firth.
18:30
Fritz:
Hi, Helene! VERY interesting paper!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:30 Fritz
18:29
@malgorzata siennicka: Within the CTR database, all the crescent shaped weights
are from Anatolia, except for a small number from Tiryns, Agnete Lassen has made
a more general study of crescent-shaped weights, and if she is on-line then she might
be able to answer your question in more detail.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:29 Richard Firth
18:28
Henriette, thank you very much for reading my paper
18:28
Bryan, the drawings were made by my husband.
18:28
To Kostas and Vassilis, thank you for your comments and I look forward to a
discussion on the meaning of thronos/thronon.
18:28
Louise H. @ Helene: I enjoyed your paper. The ideal of dressing up figures and
carrying them in procession is very near Eastern.
18:28
Thank you Helene!
18:23
18:22
Vassilis Petrakis:
@ Helene Whittaker: As long as I am still in, I feel obliged to say that this has been
a splendid, very enjoyable paper! I particularly liked the reference to Helms (also
relevant to J. Smith's paper). On ποικιλόθρονος (poikilothronos, if Greek characters
do not appear), I think I heard "throne" in the translation? There is a convincing
literature that the second component in the adjective (in Homer and the lyrics) is
NOT masculine θρόνος (thronos, 'throne'), but the neuter *θρόνον (thronon), which
means many things, amongst which 'ornament', or particularly 'ornament on
clothing'. We can exchange views and provide detailed references later, so as not to
crowd this chat space. Congratulations, once again!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:23 Vassilis Petrakis
Jane Johnsen:
Ingeborg asked me to let you know that she is conference organizer and Cold War
historian, and thus greek and Italian pronounciation is not her strong suit....;o)
18:22
18:22
Helene (if you're out there), I'm quite struck by several aspects of your paper,
especially the Cult Center figures reconstructed with clothing! Are those your own
drawings?
Wednesday April 21, 2010 18:22 Bryan Burns
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Helen Whittaker!
18:21
Than you Henriette for reading the paper of Helene Whittaker
18:19
@Louise: Finally got internet access. Unfortunately the wireless at my hotel keeps
cutting in and out but I will keep trying!
18:17
18:12
@Richard Firth – Thank you. The ‘bananas’ we have at Tiryns are between 480 and
almost 600 g. As many other objects and ideas, they may have arrived to the Argolid
from Anatolia. I think, the chronology fits, too. I wonder if there are others in the
Aegean (not published?), as one would expect from the distribution of other objects
of possibly Anatolian origins (e.g. anchors) found at many other Aegean sites.
Louise H.: @Jo: glad you "made it"
18:11
The online conference could be the start of a wonderful new platform for bringing
together everyone from around the world (the live stream is fantastic). As Robert
mentioned it is a positive outcome from what has been a very difficult week.
18:11 Helena Tomas:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Ok, thanks! (Reply Privately)
18:09
18:08
@ Yaşar Ersoy - Thank you for your comment. There are indeed clay anchors at
Tiryns, too (as at many other EBA Aegean sites), but as far as I know, their function
is still very unclear. Does the paper you cite mentions also crescent shaped objects?
Joanna, Many thanks for a stimulating paper. I did hope to see you at KOSMOS.
18:08
Hi Vasili, I missed your presentation unfortunately...
18:07
18:06
@malgorzata siennicka: thanks for your question. The crescent-shaped loom
weights that we have from Demercihuyuk do not include weights in the particular
range 500-600g, that you ask about. There are a number that are incised or have
rows of closely spaced dots, but there are also crescent-shaped weights without dots
or incisions.
@Joanna: very interesting paper. Several important points about systemic
networking have been raised in it.
18:06
@Joanna: Thank you for the very exciting presentation!
18:06
@Joanna: Very exciting presentation!
18:06
We are busy indeed, but please send your text and ppt directly to Marie-Louise.
18:06 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Helena Tomas] I think it might be a good idea to send it to Marie Louise.
She will have the final say, and we might have some extra time at some point.
18:05
Vassilis Petrakis:
Congratulations on a very interesting synthesis on Mediterranean patterned textiles
and the Aegean connections! However, my connection suffers (I am stranded at the
moment). If it fails me, I shall try to get back in again later. Once more, as any of us
should, I must thank all the Kosmos team for this superb event. While offline,
however, I will be happy to receive and reply concerning my paper at
[email protected]. Many thanks to Jorg Weilhartner for his presentation and
for all encouraging comments, mange tak to all!
18:03 Helena Tomas:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] If it is too late, I do not want to insist. It really is not a
big deal if my paper cannot be presented. I simply felt obliged to send it since so many people
have done so. (Reply Privately)
18:02
Thaks to Carole for reading the paper by Smith on tapestries
18:02 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Helena Tomas] I am told that sending papers at this point may be too
late, but please send it to Marie Louise, and she will decide. Best Jane
18:00
Helena Tomas:
To whom do we need to send our papers and power point presentations? MarieLouise is probably too busy to check her e-mail regularly.
17:59
17:59
Louise H. @Joanna: I understand the ashlar building at Maa-PK to be made of reused ashlar blocks, making it less grand than other ones. Another interesting feature
is that it is very different in plan from the more rectilinear houses at the site.
Thanks Annette. I have now been able to display the pictures imdeed
17:58
@ malgorzata siennicka, and Richard Firth: please see, Anadolu araştırmaları,
10.1986, for the paper by A. Erkanal on terracotta anchor shaped objects from EBA
Limantepe.
17:57
Annette Borrell:
Sorry Robert - you have had help fo the photos I now hear.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:57 Annette Borrell
17:57
Any chance of re-broadcasting the Thebes paper?
17:56
Louise H. @Joanna: very interesting paper. HST has a very exotic character both
with regard to the assortment of finds and architecture.
17:55
Annette Borrell:
@Robert - if you copy the link for the photos I have put in my
17:54
17:52
@Richard Firth. Thank you for a great paper! The EBA crescent shaped objects
from Demircihüyük look really very similar to those from Tiryns (at least some of
them). They have various weights, as far as I could follow the presentation: between
100-200 g and 800-900 g. Are there also some of 500-600 g? Are all incised, as we
could see at the beginning of the presentation?
Ida Demant:
@Richard - you are wellcome. well written. :-)
17:52
@ Smith: Are all beaters from Cyprus used for tapestry weaving? Were some used
to write in Cypro-Minoan script?
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:52 Georg Nightingale
17:52
Louise: @Janice, I'm missing you too. I had 2 different flights from Melbourne, both
cancelled!
17:46
Vassilis Petrakis:
Perfect!
17:46
Vassilis Petrakis:
I see. Got stuck in the e-mailed program. My apologies.
17:45
There is still a chance that Carlos arrives in Copenhagen before the end of Kosmos
and that he can read his paper himself (on friday)
17:45
Many thanks, Ida, for reading my paper.
17:45
@ Peter. Thank you again for your wonderful contribution!
17:45
Many thanks,Ida, for making such a good job of reading my paper !!
17:45
Louise, I'm still in the USA. So sorry to miss you at KOSMOS.
17:44
Vassilis - the revised program might be found at
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/programwednesday/
17:42
pietro militello:
@Nancy. Hi, sorry for not answering before, but I had to solve this first approach to
the web conference. How long will you stay in Europe?
17:42
Vassilis Petrakis:
Was it not going to be Carlos Varias' paper on the Argolid textile production?
17:41
Thank you, Ida for reading the paper of Richard Firth
17:39
17:37
@ Yasar: They indeed seem to dissapear around LH II. If they are indeed related
with the horizontal loom (but some doubt it) then that would mean that the
technology simply gave its way to the more efficient vertical loom.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:39 Peter Pavuk
Louise: @Janice: are you in Australia?
17:36
Admin1 thank you for sharing the pictures with us.
17:36
17:36
@ Peter Pavuk: got it! thanks, but why did they (fine ones with pierced center)
disappear then at a certain period? or were they attested during the advanced stage of
LH III and EIA?
I cannot access the pictures
17:36
Yes, thanks for the photos - you have a really fantastic setup!
17:36
Glad to see the photos of the Copenhagen "end". Keep up the good work for us all!
17:32
Thanks for the photos! It makes it even more real!
17:32
@ Yasar: Yes, these fine spools seem to be different from the chunky ones without a
perforation. It seems to be rather functional then chronological, I would say
17:32
Vassilis Petrakis:
@ Peter Pavuk: I look forward to meeting you as well Peter! I would like to second
Reinhard Jung's applause on the methodology of your paper. Excellent! See you
soon!
17:31
Louise Hitchcock: Great photos! Now I see how you are all able to chat!
17:31
Congratulations Peter! your paper pointed out several important points!
17:30
Thanks to Fritz!! :-)
17:30
Very interesting paper, Peter.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:30 Oliver Dickinson
17:30
@ Peter Pavuk: I noticed that all the spool-shaped loomweights you have referred to
are hollow or piercede at the center. Does this any chronological signifince? I am
asking this simply because we have also solid spools from even from EH period
down to EIA.
17:29
KosmosAdmin1:
Dear all - we now have some photos ready from the conference here in copenhagen
today Wednesday. Please view your colleagues at the following adress:
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/kosmos/photoswed
Please let us know if you have some problems accessing the page.
17:28
great paper Peter
17:28
@ Vassilis. Thanks for the reference. See you in Athens soon!
17:28
Very good paper - methodologically sound and with good interpretations, Peter!
17:25
pietro militello:
great paper. thank you
17:25
Thank you very much Fritz for reading the paper of Peter Pavuk
17:25
Kostas Paschalidis:
Thank you Peter!
17:22
Ida Demant:
@george - it shouldnt affect the yarn. When you have too much yarn collected on
the spindle, it doest spin very well, and you have to empty it. That happens before it
affects the spinning of yarn seriously...
17:21
17:13
Vassilis Petrakis:
@ Peter Pavuk: Great paper Peter! Congratulations! The slide on the flat, discoid
loomweight did not include Lemnos. You can cite Christos' paper on the recent
'Minoans in the S, E and C Aegean' of the Danish Institute. I think there is reference
on this type from Koukonisi. Unless this was not the type I thought it was (My
connection is not very good and image and sound does 'loop' a bit...)
He saw your comment...;o)
17:11
17:11
Fritz is one slide behind! Can you tell him?
KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Richard Firth] Glad to hear. Jane
17:11 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Richard Firth] Is that the signal to the live stream? If so, it runs well here,
so try to re-tart your system. Mine also froze just a few minutes ago. I think live stream is
hard on the system. Best Jane
17:10
Vassilis Petrakis:
@ Maurizio del Freo: Thank you! This is indeed very interesting!
17:09
emanuela alberti:
Iannis Fappas [email protected]
17:09
emanuela alberti:
Athina Papadaki [email protected]
17:08
While looking at the picture of a spindle with a lot of yarn collected on it I wondered
who this affects calculations of yarn strength and lenght based on the weight of the
spindle weight. Does the type of yarn change the more weigth is collected on the
spindle through winding up the spun yarn?
17:08
@ Carole: thank you very much indeed for reading our (admittedly difficult) text !
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:08 Maurizio Del Freo
17:08
Thank you very much Ida for reading the paper on women and textiles in Troy
17:08
@ Vassilis: we haven't found any particular association between the Of and Oh
tablets. The only relevant thing is perhaps that they differ as to the way they record
the fractional qts (PA vs M).
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:08 Maurizio Del Freo
17:07
emanuela alberti:
@Tobias. Yes, as you know the dating question in Thebes is quite complicated.
Please write me or to Athina Papadaki if you want more detail on this
[email protected]
17:05
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@ M.Guzowska et al. : Thank you for the very interesting paper. Since more time is
needed for the production of fine thread, I suppose the quantities of small/light
spindle whorls found in excavations would be enlightening as far as the scale of fine
thread production is concerned
17:05
emanuela alberti:
@Cynthia Shelmerdine. Thank you very much! This is a good possibility, pointed
out by the review made by Iannis Fappas.
17:04
@Marta - thanks for a very interessting paper!
17:03
pietro militello:
@martha and eva. wonderful paper
17:02
Vassilis Petrakis:
@ Emanuela Alberti: Thank you for clarifying this. So, it is still possible to argue
that these contexts cannot be linked. The association of perfumery and textiles is
intriguing, as well. Congratulations for the clear outline of what certainly is a
complex project!
17:00
to Emanuela: Thank you very much. This means there is the destruction horizon
beneath your finds (although the dating at Thebes is complicated and has to be done
by pottery studies).
17:00
I apologise for any delays in publishing comments. The system had a short black
out
17:00
@emanuela alberti: Thank you so much for your talk. I am delighted to hear you
have the evidence for perfume associated with textile working in the 'Archive'!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 17:00 Cynthia Shelmerdine
17:00
:-), with my apologies to vssiios
16:58
the chat function does not work regularly from where I am; you can contact me at
[email protected]
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:58 Fr. Rougemont
16:58
16:58
sorry, the chat functions only at some moments, making it difficult to follow
discussions and answering questions. You can contact me at:
[email protected]
Congratulations to Marie-Louise, now we can all attend from all over the world!
16:58
Thank you to Carole for reading the presentation!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:58 Marie-Louise Nosch
16:57
emanuela alberti:
Our warmest thanks to Carole Gillis for reading the text. We know it was not an
easy task! Thank you so much, Carole!
16:56
emanuela alberti:
@Tobias. Obviously, there is a stratigraphy too! The spindle-whorls come from the
LHIIIC layers of the excavations.
16:54
emanuela alberti:
@Vassilis. The Of tablets were found in the so-called "Archive" (SoteriouDougekou). In the publication (Spyropoulos-Chadwick 1975) Spyropoulos
suggested the identification of the two rooms with a textile workshop, on the basis
of various findings. The review of the evidence made by Iannis Fappas seems to
confirm the fact (many small spindle-whorls). It was also proposed th identification
with a clearing house (Shelmerdine 1997). I think both are probable. For Oh
(Pelopidou), we are waiting the full publication of the contexts.
16:47
emanuela alberti:
@Pietro: loomweights are mostly spool-shaped. Weight varies, but does not exceed
generally the 100 g...
16:46
Emanuela mou, brava!!
16:46
16:45
Vassilis Petrakis:
@ Maurizio del Freo and Francoise Rougemont: Have you found any particular
association between the Of and Oh records or their relevant contexts? I apologise if I
missed a relevant comment in your paper.
pietro militello:
maria (e)manuela right. I had to wait for the whole presentation. what shape and
weight??
16:42
emanuela alberti:
@Pietro: I think you saw the textile summary!
16:42
emanuela alberti:
Data from the Pelopidou excavations are courtesy of Athina Papadaki, who is
studying the excavation small finds. She gave me the chronology. I think it is based
on the associated pottery (which has been published by Eleni Andrikou)
16:41
[Comment From Marta GuzowskaMarta Guzowska: ]
(ok, it works :-) Unfortunately I will not be able to follow the conference online. If
you have any questions of comments to our paper, please direct them to me via
email ([email protected]). Thanks! Good luck!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:41 Marta Guzowska
16:41
emanuela alberti:
sorry, there was an inconvinience...
16:40
emanuela alberti:
Data on Pelopidou material have been
16:40
16:38
emanuela alberti:
@Kostas. Presently, the only context for which we can hypotesize the use of
perfumed oil in textile activity is the "Archive" (Soteriou-Dougekou, reviewed by
Iannis Fappas and the only context fully published we have). There, it seems quite
probable. For other plots, we have still to finish the study...
to Maria Emanuela Alberti: I would be interested in the finds from LH III C at
Pelopidou Street. Are they dated by typology, pottery, or stratigraphy?
16:38
Hello everybody! The transmission is wonderful, great job, Marie-Louise and team!
16:38
Hello everybody! The transmission works very well, great job!
16:37
Kostas Paschalidis:
Sheltering different activities under the same roof in Thebes, could we assume
related productions, such as textiles and perfumes, or in other words, 'perfumed' fine
cloths?
16:34
pietro militello:
a wonderful and long ranging project, congratulations. what about weaving, i.e.
loom-weights?
16:34
Vassili, congratulations. I hope I get to meet you in person one day.
16:34
[Comment From Marylène Laffineur-CrépinMarylène Laffineur-Crépin: ]
Oui, bien sûr, Céline était devant son écran, mais j'ignore si Clément et Valentine
auront tout saisi...
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:34 Marylène Laffineur-Crépin
16:34
Don't know what I did, but it is now working.... Thanks for your comments.
16:34
Maria Emanuela Alberti and Francoise Rougemont are online and can answer
questions and receive comments
16:34
Marie-Louise! Thanks so much for this exciting web-event! It is really amazing to
see the presentations and make comments on-line! Bravo!
16:31
@Vassilis Petrakis: Great paper! Congratulations!
16:30
Congratulations Vassilis for the original work
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:30 Lena Papazoglou
16:28
Vassilis Petrakis:
Eucharisto Kosta! I had hoped to see you, Lena and Eleni in Copenhagen. Alas, it
was not meant to be...
16:28
@ Judith&Peter - The possible identification of crescent shaped objects as loom
weights at Tiryns is also because they were sometimes found in the same context as
other potential loom weights (large conus) or in a group (3 pieces). I am open on
other interpretations, though!
16:25
Vassilis Petrakis:
Thank you for your kind comments. I hope I have done justice to your meticulous
study of the LANA ideogram in your recent monograph on the unclassified Od
tablets.
16:23
Euxaristo, Kosta mou, kai grazie Emanuela!
16:23
Thank you for a great paper, Vassilis, and thank you for including textile idegram
*164 which is rarely discussed
16:23
Thank you, as well, for presenting my paper! I am looking forward to feedback from
you.
16:21
Kostas Paschalidis:
Bravo Malgosia and Vassili!
16:19
emanuela alberti:
Brava, Malgosia,
16:19
[Comment From Sebastian HeathSebastian Heath: ]
Congratulations on putting this together so quickly!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:19 Sebastian Heath
16:17
Almost anything that hangs could probably work (like Jean-Claude's pebbles) as
loom weights :-) but some found together in the same rooms at Karahoyuk were
stamped by different seals, in some cases by 2 or 3 different seals. Personalized
loom-weights OK, but personalizing each and every weight???
16:17
Lieber Tobias! Thank you very much for presenting my paper! I am happy that a
Tiryns specialist could do it! I won’t be in Nürnberg, unfortunately.
16:17 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Jacke Phillips] It sounds like it should be working.We are all on Macs
here, so that should not be an issue. I hope that a re-start or a different computer might help.
The tech peole here says that everything should be in order.
16:15 Jacke Phillips:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] I'm on the University of Cambridge system, and the
computer is a Mac. I'll try for the PCs here, but the system should be strong enough - the
computers are all less than a year old! Jacke (Reply Privately)
16:15
Hi, Gosza. I think it still very interesting that you have these crescent objects at
Tiryns and at such an early date! Whether they are loom-weights or not, but Judith
made indeed some good arguments against their identification as such.
16:14
@ Judith Weingarten – I will definitely try to find your paper to learn more about
the objects you have discussed. In fact, I have noticed three very thin dashes on one
of our ‘bananas’ , but I am not sure if they were intentionally made or only
accidental incisions.
16:14
Anne Chapin:
To Jacke Phillips - an ethernet cord works better for me than the wireless connection
- it's faster.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 16:14 Anne Chapin
16:13
Malgorzata, you have got very interesting results! Great! I hope to see you in May at
Nuremberg?
16:13
@ pietro militello: Thank you for this information. I would like to learn more about
this find!
16:13
Our collaborator Agnete Wisti Lassen has made weaving tests with the crescent
shaped loom weights and they worked well.
16:13 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Jacke Phillips] Dear Jacke. Sound and image are fine from here. It might
be that the simoltaneous streaming and sound is too much for your local system. Do you
know how strong your connection is? 2 mbit is required. Tey to shut down your browser and
re-open it. Best Jane
16:12
Annette Pohlke:
@Jacke Does it show a circling wheel then? In the worst case it could be a
bandwidth problem. "Worst case" because getting more bandwidth isn't something
you can easily do. If you are having other downloads in the background you could
try stopping them. Or can you rule out a bandwidth problem?
16:11
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@malgorzata siennicka : thank you
16:09
I've just got to this, and cannot get the live broadcast for more than 30 seconds
before it freezes and the sound is cut off. What am I doing wrong?
16:09
@ Sophia Vakirtzi: So far only a couple of perforated sherds were identified at
Tiryns, but there are possibly many others. I need to go through many boxes of EH
sherds and small finds to find more. Those identified so far were not found in
concentrations, as far as we can understand from the excavation documentation.
16:09
Yes, unfortunately I pressed 'send' a second before Jorg began to read. It took a few
seconds for the message to appear.
16:08
16:08
@Malgorzata, the patterns of marks (slashes, dots) and seal impressions on those
crescents from karahoyuk virtually preclude their use as loom-weights. I know my
article is hard to find but it really describes the situation in detail; also Gillian's
contribution.
Thank you.
16:08
it is set to 100%, just as the general sound indicator of my computer. Still I need to
put my hear very near to hear something...
16:06
@ Julie Hruby – There are no real wear patterns of use of the cylinders. Actually, on
none of the objects (loom weights) such patterns were observed, in a exception of
the large conus, where around the perforation traces of use can be seen.
16:06
Thank you for your comment, Judith Weingarten. I am aware of various
interpretations of the crescent-shaped objects from Anatolia. The tests have
demonstrated, however, they could well work as loom weights. I think it is still an
open question. At Tiryns there is no direct evidence that they were used as loom
weights, and we have only several examples of them as far.
16:06
'
16:05
Vassilis Petrakis is online and can answer your questions and receive your
comments here!
16:05
I think, we shall hear more about the crescent "heavy bananas" later on. There is a
paper on Demircihuyuk scheduled, if I am not wrong.
16:05
And, of course, Jorg Weilhartner!
16:05
Dear Vassilis, as you can see and hear, ir is Jörg who reads you paper now since I
had to sort out some logistics this morning.
16:04
Jane Johnsen:
To those who still have a hard time hearing the speaker, please look at the very
bottom right hand side of the window showing the slides. Right next to the
microphone symbol, you will find a 'soundslider'. Please make sure that it is set to a
100%
16:00
Finally, I am in! A big 'thank you' to Marie-Louise Nosch again for offering to read
my paper!
16:00
pietro militello:
Crescent shaped, but not of the same shape, came also from neolithic Nerokourou. I
wonder also if they were for cloth production
15:59
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Congratulations for your paper Mrs. Siennicka. Were perforated sherds found in
concentrations or scattered ?
15:58
Malgorzata, are there any characteristic wear patterns on the cylindrical objects that
would tell us how they were tied in?
15:58
Bonjour, francoise!
15:58
15:58
Regarding crescent 'loom-weights', similar objects are found all over many
Anatolian MBA sites (though beginning earlier). They are very unlikely to be loomweights and unlikely to have been involved in cloth production. I wrote about those
from Karahoyuk in Oriens Antiquus 29 (1990) 63-95, and asked Gilian Vogelsang
to study them, too (97-113). She agreed that they were not loom-weights.
You are welcome to ask questions here to Malgozata!
15:58
Thank you to Tobias Mühlenbruch for reading Malgorzata Siennicka's paper for
her!
15:58 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Fr. Rougemont] The tech people suggest headphones, unless you can
enhance the volume further. Best Jane
15:56
From here the sound is still hardly audible...
15:55
[Comment From Nathan HarperNathan Harper: ]
Greetings from Las Vegas. Thank you to the organizers for their hard work and
willingness to make this available to everyone.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:55 Nathan Harper
15:55
Ok, Margarita! Let's hope that Jo and Eva will return to Copenhagen very soon!
15:55
I am online. I thank very much Tobias Mühlenbruch for presenting my paper!
15:50
Malgorzata, are you on-line with us? can you answer questions about your paper?
15:50
Margarita Gleba:
Marie-Louise - I do not know when you scheduled my paper but if Jo makes it back
I would rather she read it out instead of my voice-over.
15:50
Isabelle, peux-tu mettre une annonce et un lien vers Kosmos virtuel sur le site du
Departement?
15:49
15:43
Nancy Thomas:
To Anne,s question: Roger and I arrived in Germany 2 weeks ago, rented a car and
began driving around old churches and military/naval museums. We were in Kiel
when Marie-Louise asked if we could pick up Robert, who was in Hamburg without
a way to continue by train to Copenhagen. So of course we did. Other people are
trickling in, even today as train travel has opened up a bit. M-L and Robert have
done a stupendous job of converting this apparent disaster into an experience with
wonderful potential. Still, as Robert says, the most wonderful aspect of a conference
is seeing and talking with each other. Really miss seeing you and all the people I had
hoped to meet here. You are here in spirit!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:49 Nancy Thomas
May I add that I present research by the entire CTR: Linda, Anne, Eva, Jo, Marta,
Ida and all our great collaborators!
15:42
Thank you, Marie Louise and Robert. This is a great opportunity for all us.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:42 anna lucia dagata
15:41
Dear Georg, I would like to re-direct your question to Ida Demant who is expert in
Iron Age textile and wool and shearing
15:40
Thank you, Marie-Louise. Your excellent paper shows that the Linear B tablets
never give the complete picture, but we need the archaeology too. At least the pylos
tablets do mention a type of cloth, ideogram *146, that is locally produced and sent
to the center.
15:40
Kostas Paschalidis:
All current knowledge on this topic in one paper of 20'! Bravo!
15:39
Big applause!!!
15:38
Bravo Marie-Louise!
15:38
Alessandro Greco:
Congratulations Marie
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:38 Alessandro Greco
15:38
great paper!!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:38 Brendan Burke
15:38
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Thank you, Professor Nosch !
15:38
15:37
Marie-Louise, does it make a difference in preparation for spinning if you use wool
sheered from sheep or plucked/combed from sheep? Which method of "harvesting"
wool in the LBA do think was used?
Fritz:
Congratulations, Marie-Louise!
15:37
Jane Johnsen:
Please post any questions you may have to Marie Louises presentation. She will
respond afterwards!
15:37
pietro militello:
Marie Louise bravissima!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:37 pietro
militello
15:32
Annette Pohlke:
Great presentation. I like how it raises awareness of the day to day realities of
textile production and thus of everyday life.
15:27
Jean-Robert Laffineur:
Avec plaisir.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:27 Jean-Robert
Laffineur
15:26 Robert Laffineur:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Thanks Robert (Reply Privately)
15:24 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Robert Laffineur] Hello mr. Laffineur. I have given you pannellist rights
so that you can chat directly without moderation. Best Jane
15:23
Et merci a Natou pour l,ajout au site ULg
15:23 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to pietro militello] Ok understood. I hope things are now ok. Please let me
know if I can help . Best Jane
15:21 pietro militello:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] thank you. My connection collapsed and I had to
restart. I appeared as guest, Pietro (Reply Privately)
15:19 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to pietro militello] You should not have to log in every time. I have given
you pre-approval, which means that you can just chat directly without moderation. This
should even be the case if you have logged out and log back in. Best Jane
15:17 Jean-Robert Laffineur:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Thank You :) (Reply Privately)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:17 Jean-Robert Laffineur
15:13
hello, Jean-Claude. Is there any evidence of all for linen sails? I thougt they were all
wool.
15:13
pietro militello:
sorry guest was me I did not know I have to log in every time
15:13
The sound now is very good. Thank you.
15:13
This is great. And a great presentation to start.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:13 Brendan Burke
15:13
emanuela alberti:
Yes, the sound has improved a lot! Thanks! And this idea on pebbles is interesting!
15:12
Guest:
@Poursat Thank you for your iteresting paper. Is it 110 grams too light for rope or
sails? The cultual explanation sounds better to me
15:12
The sound is much better, also without headphones and also when you show the
speaker. Thank you very much from Heidelberg!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:12 Eva Wacha
15:12
Annette Borrell:
Hello Malgorzata - welcome to the conference!
15:12
Robert Laffimeur:
Thank you to Nancy Thomas for reading Poursat's paper!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:12 Robert Laffimeur
15:10
Annette Pohlke:
@Jane: Sound is fine for me. But I use the full volume of my speakers. Quality is
good, no echo or feedback or static.
15:10
15:10
[Comment From Julie HrubyJulie
Hruby: ]
The sound is coming through clearly much better - thanks!
Kostas Paschalidis:
The sound is better, thank you. It could though be increased, like it was during
Marie Louise's lecture! You are doing a great job anyway!
15:10
[Comment From Judith
WeingartenJudith Weingarten: ]
Yes, sound is much better now. thanks.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:10 Judith
Weingarten
15:10
Hello to Copenhagen from Warsaw!
15:10 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Jean-Robert Laffineur] ok. Sorry for the mix up. Hoevever you are
welcome to sty on chat with producer rights...as long as you do not push any unknown
buttons....;o) Jane
15:09
Robert Laffimeur:
Marylene, Celine a t elle ete prevenue ? Sorry pour les accents, je tape sur un
clavier qwerty!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:09 Robert Laffimeur
15:09
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] I am not Robert, I am
his son, in Liege. (Reply Privately)
15:08
Jane Johnsen:
The sound problem should now have been solved. Please let us know if things have
improved.
15:07
Robert Laffimeur:
Merci Marylene, Isabelle, Caroline,
Jean-Robert!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:07 Robert
Laffimeur
15:05
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Jean-Claude Poursat, are you watchin your paper now? Yours ML
15:03
This is great! Many thanks, Marie-Louise & Robert!
15:03
[Comment From Caroline HubyCaroline Huby: ]
@ R. Laffineur: Congratulations and greetings from Liège!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:03 Caroline Huby
15:02 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Jean-Robert Laffin...] Robert. I have given you producer rights, so you
can write whenever you want, directly to the chat.
15:02
pietro militello:
Congratulations Robert. Thank you
15:01
Excellente intervention, Robert!
15:01
Greetings from Turkey. It indeed works fine. Thank you all for your great help who
have involved with this mission.
15:01
Margarita Gleba:
Sound is better now, so it may be the location of microphone but it still echoes when
camera is on
15:00
Isabelle Jeanmart:
C'est magique. Merci à toute l'équipe qui a rendu toute ceci possible. Bravo !
Wednesday April 21, 2010 15:00 Isabelle Jeanmart
15:00
Excellente intervention, Robert!
15:00
Louise Hitchcock: big applause!
14:59
I'm recording the rest so I can view it later, but up to know it has been looking good
(and interesting of course!)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:59 Sander Brabander
14:59
I'm not complaining. This is just too exciting.
14:59 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Marie-Louise Nosch] Cynthia har svaret. Hun sender sin præsentation
senere idag.
14:58
@Sophia Vakirtzi: Se euxaristw Sophia. 8a ta poume aurio apo konta loipon!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:58 Angelos Papadopoulos
14:58
Annette Borrell:
Dear everybody. Wednesday's conference programme is now put on the same
webpage as the livestream you are viewing. It is located in the 'right box' in the right
hand side of the page.
14:56 Cynthia Shelmerdine:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] THANK YOU! Will do (Reply Privately)
14:55 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Cynthia Shelmerdine] Cynthia I have just talked to Marie Louise. She
says that you can send your presentation later today. Best Jane
14:55
Sophia Vakirtzi:
@Angelos Papadopoulos : Angele kalispera, exoume to Ok avrio na mazeutoume
sti Tholou. Tha epikoinonisei kai o Andreas mazi sou.
14:54 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Marie-Louise Nosch] Hej Marie Luise. Jeg har lige et spm. fra Cynthia
Shelmerdine. Jeg har ikke posted det, vil du lige se på det på min skærm
14:54
Helena Tomas:
Marie-Louise, should we continue sending the papers (I still have not sent mine), or
you already have too many?
14:53
Well done. Excellent video-conference. Headphones work for me. I will get back
with questions. Marsia
14:52
Louise: @Judith: The sound was good in Marie-Louise's talk, so it might improve
later.
14:51
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Thank you to Thessaloniki!
14:51
Marie-Louise Nosch:
We had to modify the entire programme according to the ppt we received. Thank
you to all those who have sent their presentations!
14:50
14:49
[Comment From Konstantinos
GalanakisKonstantinos Galanakis: ]
Greetings from Thessaloniki and good luck to
everybody in the conference.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:50 Konstantinos
Galanakis
pietro militello:
Marie Louise, but is the programme of today exactly the original monday
programme?
14:49
Alas, I don't have headphones. I'll try to get some by tomorrow.
14:49
emanuela alberti:
Many thanks!
14:47
14:45
Marie-Louise Nosch:
The Thursday programme is posted later today on the CTR web site! Thursday
lectures will start at 12.00 here in Copenhagen. That is 11.00 in London and 13.00 in
Greece. We will continue until late evening
Louise: Judith: are you using headphones?
14:45 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Marie-Louise Nosch] Hej Marie Louise. Der er et spørgsmål ang
program fra Emanuela Alberti i chatten.
14:44
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Any questions or comments to Robert Laffineur?
14:44
14:44
emanuela alberti:
May I ask to organizers if they have already a program scheduled for next days? I
know that the working conditions are quite difficult, but it would be very useful to
have more or less an idea of the sequence of the presentations...Many thanks
Yes, it's up to max on both the display and on my laptop.
14:43
Louise Hitchcock: Did you also turn up the volume on the transmission display?
14:41
pietro militello:
Unfortunately problems remain the same
14:41
The sound is better if you use headphones or speakers
14:40
Guest:
Try using head phones or speakers - that worked for me.
14:40
[Comment From Isabelle JeanmartIsabelle Jeanmart: ]
Prgpgramme of the day : http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/programwednesday/
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:40 Isabelle Jeanmart
14:40
pietro militello:
Sorry, what about the sound problems? Are you still working on them? I heard
Marie Louise by far better than Robert.
14:39
Annette Borrell:
@Ute - thank you
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:39 Annette
Borrell
14:39
emanuela alberti:
Ciao, Luca!
14:38
Ida Demant:
thanks..
14:38
http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/programwednesday/
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:38 Ute Günkel-Maschek
14:38
Ida Demant:
where can we see the programme?
14:38
[Comment From judith weingartenjudith weingarten: ]
I have the same problem as Emanuela. On my PC, with sound at 100%, it's still too
soft.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:38 judith weingarten
14:37
Jane Johnsen:
Hej Ida. Velkommen til!
14:37
[Comment From Ida DemantIda Demant: ]
where can we see the programme?
14:37
Ciao Emanuela!
14:36
Jane Johnsen:
Thank you Emanuela. Welcome to the conference. Glad that sound is a bit better
14:36
Anne Chapin:
Hi Nancy, but you got to Copenhagen! How?
14:35
emanuela alberti:
Sorry the "Guest" was me. Yes, I did everyhting I could, now is a little better!
14:35
Nancy Thomas:
Hey Anne. Wish you were here!
14:32
Annette Borrell:
Thank you Cynthia:)
14:32
Congratulations to Copenhagen, and thank you for the livestream!
14:31
Annette Pohlke:
Thank you!
14:28
Jane Johnsen:
I see your comments
14:27
[Comment From Alex BuhlAlex Buhl: ]
@Guest, are you on a PC? There may be a little sign at the bottom corner where
you can turn up the volume...
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:27 Alex Buhl
14:27
Annette Pohlke:
Does anyone get my messages? I can't see my
own messages on the screen.
14:27
Hi, evryone. It took me a while that this chat doesn't work on my Mac. :(
14:26
Jane Johnsen:
Do you have a pair of headphones by you?
14:26
Helena Tomas:
The sound is much better if earphones are used. Just plug them into your computer
and you should be able to hear everything.
14:26
Guest:
I am sorry, I can not hear anything...I think
my computer is not really competitive!
14:26
Marie-Louise Nosch:
You are all most welcome to aks questions about Robert Laffineur's lecture and he
will respond afterwards!
14:25
Alex:
The problem is the camera sound, not the powerpoint, but the tech people are
working on solving it! :)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:25 Alex
14:25
[Comment From ItmediaItmedia: ]
thanks for the Audio tip. :-) work is being done to fix the problem
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:25 Itmedia
14:24
Thank you very much, that we all can join the conference on the web! Hello to
everybody!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:24 Eva Wacha
14:23
Anne Chapin:
For those of you having a difficult time hearing Robert, I just plugged speakers into
my computer and now the sound is perfect.
14:23
[Comment From
ashlarblocksashlarblocks: ]
Louise Hitchcock: Brilliant!
14:23
Annette Borrell:
Wish you were here Helena!:)
14:23
[Comment From Alessandro GrecoAlessandro Greco: ]
Bravi!
14:22
Greetings from Athens again. Everything works fine, congratulations for the hard
work! Best wishes, Angelos
14:22
14:22
[Comment From Helena TomasHelena
Tomas: ]
I wish I was sitting amongst those people
clapping in the background. Helena Tomas
[Comment From Louise HitchcockLouise Hitchcock: ]
Brilliant!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:22 Louise Hitchcock
14:21
Good luck! Hope that next time, neolithic "kosmos" will be represent too.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:21 Fotis Ifantidis
14:20
[Comment From despina catapotidespina catapoti: ]
brilliant! all the best of luck! despina catapoti
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:20 despina catapoti
14:19
[Comment From Uwe WollinUwe Wollin: ]
:-)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:19 Uwe Wollin
14:19
this is brilliant! all the best of luck!
14:18
Marie-Louise Nosch:
Thanks, Costas!
14:17
Congratulations and good luck!
14:16
Sophia Vakirtzi:
thanks Uwe
14:16
Alex:
@Margarita they are working on fixing the sound!
14:15
[Comment From UweUwe: ]
@Sofia. Just click the laudspeaker symbol in the bottom of the chat window
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:15 Uwe
14:15
Margarita Gleba:
Great - now it is so quiet it is almost inaudible at the highest audio level on my
computer but no echo at least.
14:15
Alex:
:)
14:15
Sophia Vakirtzi:
Yes, Alex, thank you !
14:14
Annette Borrell:
Hello Robert - welcome:)
14:14
Alex:
@Sophia - is the sound off now?
14:14
it's really great!
14:14
14:14
14:14
Sorry..we were hearing well in the beginning but now no...
KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Thank you
Jane Johnsen:
Dear Margaritha. Thank you for posting the comment about sound. We are
correcting it presently
14:13
Robert Laffineur:
Hello!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:13 Robert
Laffineur
14:13 Guest:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] I believe it is Anaya Sarpaki (Reply Privately)
14:13
Robert Laffineur:
Helle
14:13
Sophia Vakirtzi:
how do i turn off the chat message notification sound ?
14:13
Hello everyone!
14:13
Annette Borrell:
Welcome Lucia
14:12 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Could you please identify yourself by name
14:12
Annette Borrell:
We are checking the techniques right now
14:12
[Comment From Del Freo+ Lucia AlbertiDel Freo+ Lucia Alberti: ]
Hallo to everybody! It's great! Thank you!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:12 Del Freo+ Lucia Alberti
14:11
14:11
14:11
Margarita Gleba:
There seem to be problems with the sound - when powerpoint is on it is perfect but
when it goes to camera there is a bad echo and the sound is very quiet - don't know
if anything van be done about it but thought you should know
pietro militello:
Sorry, there was a worsening of the
audio or is it a problem of my
computer?
[Comment From Marylène Crépin-LaffineurMarylène Crépin-Laffineur: ]
Les premières minutes sont extraordinaires. Bon succès à tous les organisateurs.
Robert, quand tu auras un moment, consulte ton site à l'ULg.
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:11 Marylène Crépin-Laffineur
14:11
Marylène Crépin-Laffineur:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Thank
you. (Reply Privately)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:11 Marylène
Crépin-Laffineur
14:11 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Marylène Crépin-Laffineur] Thank you. I will post your commen shortly
14:10 Marylène Crépin-Laffineur:
[Private Message to KosmosAdmin2] Marylène Laffineur-Crépin (Reply Privately)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:10 Marylène Crépin-Laffineur
14:09 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Marylène Cr...] Could you please write your full name to me? Thank you
14:08
Annette Borrell:
Hello Ute
14:07
[Comment From Ute Günkel-MaschekUte Günkel-Maschek: ]
Hi everybody!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:07 Ute Günkel-Maschek
14:07
Annette Borrell:
@M - good to have you here.
14:06
Margarita Gleba:
No - I am taking a train on Friday morning so I will be tuning in today and
tomorrow
14:06
[Comment From emanuela albertiemanuela alberti: ]
Hi!
14:05
Annette Borrell:
Hi Margarita - were you not going to London today (or yesterday?)
14:05
Hi Fritz, thanks for reading my paper!!
14:05
[Comment From Margarita GlebaMargarita Gleba: ]
Greetings from Berlin to everyone!
14:04
Jane Johnsen:
Hi Margaritá. Glad to see you
14:04
Annette Borrell:
Hello Alessandro - welcome!
14:04
Annette Borrell:
Hello alessadnr
14:03
[Comment From Alessandro GrecoAlessandro Greco: ]
Hello Kosmos
14:03
Hi all!
14:02
Hello all
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:02 Valeria Lenuzza
14:01
Hello All. Glad to join in !
14:00
[Comment From Anna Simandiraki-GrimshawAnna Simandiraki-Grimshaw: ]
Hi all!
Wednesday April 21, 2010 14:00 Anna Simandiraki-Grimshaw
14:00 KosmosAdmin2:
[Private Message to Guest] Who are you?
14:00
Nancy Thomas:
Hello Pietro
13:59
Welcome on the first virtual Aegean conference.
13:59
Hello from Athens
13:59
Hi everybody and good luck!
13:58
[Comment From Luca GirellaLuca
Girella: ]
Hello everybody!
13:58
Jane Johnsen:
There will be no question time, but the author is invited to answer
directly via the chat.
13:5
4
13:52
pietro militello:
Will the question time remain the
same? (5 minutes) any
suggestion?
Wednesday April 21, 2010 13:54 pietro
militello
[Comment From Jane JohnsenJane Johnsen: ]
Hello all. I am moderating this session
13:52
[Comment From Annette BorrellAnnette Borrell: ]
Hello everybody
13:52
Hi!
13:51
Nice to meet you all!
13:51
Hej :)
13:48
Servus
13:48
Hallo
13:47
Hello.
13:47
Hello to everybody, it is just to see if it work. Will the program remain the same?
And what about the original different locations? Pietro
13:35
Kosmos moderator:
Read more about how to use this conference
backchannel on this page:
http://itmedia.hum.ku.dk/podcast/coveritlive/
Wednesday April 21, 2010 13:35 Kosmos moderator
13:32
Kosmos moderator:
We are now ready to discuss the Kosmos Conference right here ;)
Wednesday April 21, 2010 13:32 Kosmos moderator
The host has disabled reader comments.
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