L E W I S H A M ... C O N S U L T A T I... COVER SHEET FOR MINUTES OF THE
Transcription
L E W I S H A M ... C O N S U L T A T I... COVER SHEET FOR MINUTES OF THE
Public Document Pack LEWISHAM COMMUNITY POLICE CONSULTATIVE GROUP Working for a safer Lewisham for all COVER SHEET FOR MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING HELD IN AUGUST 2011 Tuesday, 30 August 2011 7.00 pm Civic Suite, Lewisham Town Hall, London SE6 4RU For additional information about the LCPCG please contact: LCPCG Coordinator, Daisy Cairns, 2nd Floor, Civic Suite, Catford, London, SE6 4RU Tel: 020 8314 8975 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/lcpcg Minute Item 1 LEWISHAM COMMUNITY POLICE CONSULTATIVE GROUP SPECIAL MEETING Tuesday 30 August 2011, 7.00 – 8.30 pm Rooms 1 & 2, Civic Suite, Catford Members present Tayo Disu (chair) James Dobson Jeremy Burton Angela Hall Owen Douce Carol Mew David Brown David Michael Deidre Mason Florence Emakpose Tom Mann Harry Powell Gilbert Oshevire Jane Duffy Joanna Bish The Tabernacle Lewisham Humanist Group Lewisham Police Borough Commander Sydenham Ward Panel Ransom Church of God Lewisham Disability Coalition Forest Hill SNP Marsha Phoenix Mem. Trust Crofton Park SNP World Of Hope Joanne Hall Shelagh Fitzpatrick Geeta Subramaniam Ken Maxton Kevin Hern Laurel Saunders Lina Wallace, Lisa Crook Man Mohan Muladi Badibengi Lewisham Central Ward Panel Deptford Sector Working Group LBL Crime Reduction Service CURV Lewisham Sports Consortium African Welfare Organisation Downham Ward Panel Lewisham Black Staff Forum Nico Springman Olivia Sandy Patricia Carruthers Steve Carney Trevor Jones Ladywell SNP Kiwanis LSE Catford South Ward Panel Lewisham College Deptford Sector Working Group Milford Towers R. Ass. Perry Vale Ward Panel Rushey Green Ward Panel Lewisham Victims Support Lewisham Police Lewisham Asian Association Lewisham Wrestling Club Others present Daisy Cairns Aileen Buckton LCPCG Coordinator (minutes) ED Community Services Sir Steve Bullock Joyce Jacca Alvan Wright Andrew Hagger Barrie Neal Beresford Pearl C Kibblewhite Christine Grice Cllr Alan Hall LBL - Youth Service LBL - Scrutiny Manager LBL - Policy & Governance Ex-Police Crofton Park SNP LBL CYP LBL Councillor (Lab) Jacob Sakil Janice Hern Jessica Catley Julienne Maisi Justin Baidoo Katie O’Reilly Kavita Tate Cllr Ami Ibitson LBL Councillor (Lab) Cllr Chris Allison Cllr Chris Maines Cllr John Paschoud Cllr Julia Fletcher Cllr Kevin Bonavia LBL Councillor (Cons) LBL Councillor (Lib Dem) LBL Councillor (Lab) LBL Councillor (Lib Dem) LBL Councillor (Lab) Kieza Silveira De Sousa Martin Powell-Davis M Long Noreen Howard Michael White M Coulston Cllr M Nisbet Cllr Paul Bell D Cregan Danielle Heath Delores William Derek Johnson Donna Johnson Ericka Rowe Everton Augustus G Hallam LBL Councillor (Lab) LBL Councillor (Lab) St Matthew Academy New Cross SNP New Cross People’s Library LBL - Governance Support LBL - Youth Service SNT Lewisham Way Lewisham People Before Profit Paul Newing Peter Macdonald Petula Peters J Steele Royston John Saraid Dodd Simon Minott Tim Evans Insp Nicola Duffy Thomas Joseph Page 2 Mayor of Lewisham FOWI and 2000 Community Action Centre Former Young Mayor Perry Vale SNP Young Advisors World of Hope Unite, Young Members Young Advisors Blackheath Neighbourhood Watch Young Mayor of Lewisham NUT Lewisham LINK Griot Development Institiute The Tabernacle Church Lewisham People Before Profit LLHS Lewisham NW LBL Policy Unit Bellingham SNT Chair NCBI London NUT Comm. Inclusion Project MPS SNT Inspector Step by Step Page 1 of 8 Gary Connors R Holland LBL - Crime Reduction Service Downham Safer Neighbourhood Panel Antoinette Adams A Torrington A Turkmen Andrez Harriot B T Langridge C Black Chewil David Williams Evelyn Liston Frank Still Freya Roger G A Ward Geslyn Malcolm Geoffrey Thurley Tanya Edwards Toby Abse H D Levy June Still Marie Morrissey Maxine Williams Mr Levlo P Williams Phillip Stuart LBL - Crime Reduction Service Lewisham People Before Profit Roger Raymond Tracey Goodhew Val Wethey Yvonne Field MINUTES OF 30 AUGUST 2011 SPECIAL MEETING 1. Vice Chair’s welcome Tayo Disu introduced herself as the Vice Chair of the LCPCG and explained that this special meeting had been called in response to the recent disorder, on behalf of the chair and members of the LCPCG Strategy Group. It was noted that recent events had raised strong feelings, and the meeting was asked to treat others with respect, and allow all views to be heard, both in the audience and on the panel. As it was anticipated that there would be a high number of questions, it had been decided to take written questions from the audience, so that more questions could be answered in the limited time available, and to give all participants an equal opportunity to be heard. She explained that the question slips which had been distributed on entry would be collected shortly. After the written questions had been put to the panel, then questions will be taken from the floor. 2. Apologies Jackie Addison LCPCG Chair, Rosario Mincher, Gordon Glean; CI Simon Davis; Phil Turner, Mahad Abdullahi, Gurbakhsh Garcha 3. Sir Steve Bullock, Lewisham’s Mayor The Mayor thanked the Police, on behalf of the people of Lewisham, as some of the worst things which happened in the recent disorder didn’t happen in Lewisham. There was heroic behaviour and it is important the acts of criminality are dealt with in a proper and legal way. Over 70 businesses in the borough have reported damage and theft, and those such as market traders who were not able to open stalls for several days. Help for these local businesses will continue. Looking to the future we need to look at the wider context and factors behind these events, not just locally, but across London and wider. Some media have taken this opportunity to demonise and vilify young people in our community. Some young people will have been involved but the overwhelming majority were not and felt the same anxieties and concerns as the rest of the community when it seemed that we were teetering on the brink of anarchy, but are also understandably angry at the assumption that young people are to blame. 4. Detective Chief Superintendent Jeremy Burton, Lewisham Police’s Borough Commander Thanked the meeting for the opportunity to speak and for the overwhelming support received from the public. 22 out of 32 London boroughs were affected. The events began in Tottenham, spreading the next night to Enfield, Southwark and Brixton and then Lewisham and other areas on Monday 8th August and were unprecedented in recent years. In Lewisham High Street there was a large crowd 150-200 people outwardly goading and throwing things at police officers. Police preserved Lewisham’s Shopping Centre, but were unable to prevent all damage, and unfortunately some damage occurred in Catford, Lee Green and Deptford which is absolutely regrettable, but we did prevent the widespread disorder seen in other boroughs . 226 crimes have been reported. So far there have been 88 arrests, 50% of these Page 3 Page 2 of 8 have been charged and the others are on bail. We will be relentless in pursuing the suspects. Those we have seen so far are a wide range of people, men, women, children, young people, elderly people, all kinds of people. Looting is a popular press term, but these are not looters, they are burglars and criminals. 1200 people have been captured on CCTV footage and 50 people have already been identified from phone and camera footage. Tomorrow advertising vans will begin a week in the borough displaying some of those faces. Mr Burton then asked the meeting and the wider public to continue to support the investigation, and help identify those who caused chaos and havoc on that night. Tayo Disu thanked the Borough Commander and then asked the audience to hand in any written questions to the people coming round. 5. Lina Wallace –Victim Support, Divisional Manager responsible for 6 boroughs in S & SE London In the immediate aftermath of the riots, Victim Support (VS) have helped 500 people in London, 49 of those from Lewisham borough, with both emotional and practical support. Thankfully no-one in Lewisham was made homeless, but in Croydon and Tottenham, our staff ran centres for those who were made homeless - donations were received from many, including a major supermarket offered to help those with bedding, clothing, children’s toys, and we also offered food vouchers for anyone in immediate need. In Lewisham Victim Support will continue to support people and businesses across Lewisham but want to extend our services to people who have been affected, but haven’t yet felt that they could ask for help from us. Our office is nearby in Sangley Road but we are happy to come and visit businesses on site, and as well as helping within the community we can provide help in courts and in dealing with the Criminal Justice System. Victim Support are setting up some focus groups later in the year and have been told that Lewisham are very keen to get involved in this type of thing, and would like to ask for your help. Working with Louise Casey, Victim Commissioner, who is looking for either victims and non victims to speak about what needs to be done, both within their communities and nationally. If anyone is interested, please contact the local office at 300 Sangley Road, Catford, SE6 2JT or 020 8698 4583 or email Lina directly on [email protected]. 6. Written Questions from the audience James Dobson, LCPCG treasurer then read out the collected written questions in small batches. The first group of four questions slips were on a similar theme, and James read out one slip which summarised them: Anonymous 1 In view of the recent riots, why did the police not immediately quell the rioters by any and every means necessary to prevent the destruction of our community? 2 What do you believe is the cause of the violence? 3 What steps are you taking to prevent further eruptions of violence? J Burton Firstly - why didn’t Lewisham Police immediately quell the rioters? The situation was immensely spontaneous - Across London there was almost a viral epidemic of crime and disorder. Tactics - we implemented a Section 60 and Section 60AA immediately, which allows us to Stop and Search people and order removal of face masks. We deployed our riot trained officers to most seriously affected parts of borough. Our officers and staff were brave and professional and quite frankly did their best in very difficult circumstances. Regarding the causes, difficult to discern as there were a variety of people committing offences, but a better picture will be available once arrests are completed, the events reviewed internally and at London level and police have had debriefings with all our partners. Preventative steps: 16,000 colleagues from across the country have been assisting in London, and have been made very welcome by the community. In the short term will continue to have higher levels of police and will monitoring intelligence information closely. Safer Neighbourhood Teams Page 4 Page 3 of 8 have been used to quell potential flash points. Toby Abse Do you accept that cuts in youth service, libraries and job centres in the borough were a factor in the recent riots? Could any of these cuts be reversed? Councillor Chris Allison How much time is taken up monitoring people who have been released early on license from prison Danielle Heath Is there any preventative work that the police will be undertaking that has not been cut? R Holland In view of the Government announced cuts, how will it effect Lewisham Police and PCSO numbers? Will we see less police or PCSOs on the street? J Burton - People on license - we work with local authorities, probation, jobcentres, etc, to manage individuals and reduce harm to communities. I don’t know exactly how much time but I have every confidence that, certainly in Lewisham, it works well. Preventative works haven’t been cut- Safer Neighbourhood teams visit and offer preventative advice after crimes. We work with Victim Support and everybody can access police stations who will be able to provide advice. I will refer question about Youth Services and libraries to the Mayor but it is important to stress that the offenders weren’t just young people. 25% of the borough population are under 19 - that 25% are not criminals - the majority of people who caused the harm were not young people. Finally the question about police and PCSO numbers. Under the Comprehensive Spending Review the police has to lose 25% of its budget. Locally, we are doing that to reduce negative impacts to front line work. S Bullock. One thing to be clear about is that youth services were not cut. There have been assumptions about this across London, but in Lewisham we did cut the amount spent from 25% . Doesn’t accept analysis of direct connection between cuts and this rioting. There is a small minority of people in this borough who do engage in criminal activity, some behaviour is handed down from generation to generation. Early intervention is key but not simple. I want to engage with central and regional government on these problems. Everton Augustus With half of black young men unemployed, no or little incentive to continue education. What are their options? D Cregan Will there be a process or website to enable schools and other organisations to bid to fund effective diversion projects to engage young people? Justin Baidoo Does the panel accept that demonising of young and particularly black working class youth will not help build a solution to the problems posed by the riots? Would the panel support a community led initiative that organises with the Young Mayor, a public event that showcases the positive examples of young people and opens a discussion on the theme of “Give our young people a future” Joyce Jacca Are you working with Schools and colleges and community organisation and how? Why weren’t there meetings in the community to reassure us and to know how we could support each other? Noreen Howard Would this meeting support a proposal for an action research project lead by young people to look at and implement solutions going forward to the current unrest locally. I would suggest that David Michael Associates is funded to develop and deliver a 5 year project. Gill Lewis Apart from the Police Cadets, what else does the police get involved in with the youths of the borough. S Bullock First Question - what can we offer young black men? A big challenges for this community and city is how can we help young people of all races to get through the years of recession without becoming a lost generation? There is a risk if they don’t get work in late teens, that when economy picks up they are overtaken by younger people just leaving schools. We have projects across the borough for young people not in education, employment or training. We need to be careful not to presume that this was all about young people of school age. Head teachers met earlier this week to discuss what they need to be doing collectively as well as in their particular schools. Community led initiatives which break down negative opinions are important. 99% of young people are a credit to their community and their families. In answer to the question about community meetings - why were there none, as this was happening? What happened was very fast moving, not a situation where tensions were rising over a number of weeks, when we would have organised meetings. And Page 5 Page 4 of 8 finally I am sure that David Michael would do a fantastic job, but it is not the business of this meeting to decide these things. J Burton As Sir Steve said, it is important not to demonise young people, and whilst the investigation continues police will give a balanced response about who committed these offences. Believe that strong community spirit and levels of responsibility effectively dampened what could have happened. Police get involved in with the youth of the borough via 3 groups of Police Cadets as well as Schools Officers, Youth Advising Police group. We work with organisations such as Second Wave and with local authority on Trilogy Plus, a project which moves people away from gangs. Also we are out on the streets engaging with the whole community every day. Why weren’t people informed at the time? We did talk to a number of people, and we were dealing with a number of policing issues, but if the communication didn’t reach those that it should have done then I do regret that. We agreed to this community meeting in slower time, to tease out the issues, have a mature debate and I am very pleased there are so many of you here to reflect the views of the borough. Tayo Disu then invited some of the members of the Young Citizen’s Panel to speak Lucy O’Reilly Please continue not cutting youth services- if 99% didn’t riot then the services must be doing something right. Jacob Sakil - previous Young Mayor Jacob discussed the initial communications over the killing of Mark Duggan and concerns over facts around that. His feeling is that the community needs to look within itself, to talk to our neighbours, and look at how we can address problems before they escalate and need to be dealt with by the police. Unhappy with the negative comments heard in the media about young people involved in the rioting. A few days earlier these people were just part of the same society we all live in, but what emotions and motivations triggered the decisions to take part? He has had a lot of positive involvement with police officers such as Supt Lisa Crook, but think that there are some police officers out their whose behaviour needs correction, but there is unwillingness for this to be spoken about so it isn’t dealt with. Society provides negative role models such as MPs expenses scandals, News of the World and police corruption - why are young people measuring success in terms of material goods, instead of looking at what they can achieve for themselves or their country, what they can give to society? James Dobson read out more questions, Yvonne Field Given that Lewisham prides itself on its diversity as a borough, what plans does it have to facilitate dialogue between differing communities: old/young black/white poor/more affluent, in order to help rebuild confidence between communities as things feel very tense at the moment Royston John To Borough Commander: You rightly outlined what you will do to bring people to justice. What social measures do you have in mind for going forward and how will you ensure that you do engage with communities that can help? Simon Minott What are your plans to improve the relationship between the council/police etc and the community groups on the ground, that work within very difficult communities, groups that are trying to create community togetherness and cohesion. Michael Coulston We have seen many examples of people throwing away norms of decency and grabbing what they can: MPs & expenses; Judges giving out huge sentences; Tax dodging companies; people stealing from shops; developers grabbing chunks of Lewisham. What are we going to do in Lewisham to put people before greed If people had jobs, they would have self respect, money and choices. What is going to be done to create genuine jobs in Lewisham, actually building and making both products and a future for everyone? Why don’t we build employment instead of high rise flats? S Bullock The last point is slightly astonishing because London is in the middle of its worst housing crisis since 1960’s - desperate need for more housing in this borough and across the city. Personally believes that the housing policy we are pursuing in this borough is the right Page 6 Page 5 of 8 one. R.e. how we relate to the community - there is a huge willingness from the people of this borough to get involved, but we think it happens in pockets, are there ways we can open up dialogues, rather than existing in small groups. Its not just that people are afraid, but that people have jobs, lead busy lives, let us build on the strong communities we have in this borough. J Burton Answer question about diversity on the borough. Yvonne has come to us, and we have started to take some steps, under Supt Lisa Crook. Wider point- firstly this is a 2 way street, we will listen and reach out to communities who are vulnerable, who are hard to reach but equally, communities need to feedback to us. We will do that in a variety of ways, some may be more successful than others, but will can never reach everybody. Supt Lisa Crook is looking at how we can engage with some of our communities that we haven’t been able to reach and that is ongoing. The first step in reaching the communities is Safer Neighbourhood Teams who identify problems at root cause - echo what Jacob said, it is about all of us dealing with it together before it comes to the police, because if it comes to the police then it has gone too far. In summary we can do better and we recognise that but we are trying to do better. 7. Audience Questions from the floor Tayo Disu announced that next questions from floor would be taken and asked the audience again to be brief - maximum 2 minutes - to let others have their chance and be respectful to the others in the room T Joseph If you live in the North - Honor Oak, Silwood, Pepys estate, coming to the Town Hall isn’t convenient. I expect ward councillors and MPs to be part of this meeting. The council and the MPs should have already been holding some sort of meetings - out in the community. S Bullock Although I didn’t arrange this meeting I am aware that there have been meetings around the borough in different ways - councillors and officers have been talking to community organisations in informal ways. The timing in August has not been helpful, and over the next period, through existing things like the Local Assemblies we want to ensure an ongoing dialogue. If we thought there was a continuing likelihood of further violence of the kind that we saw, then we would certainly organise ad-hoc meetings. But that is not what we are facing, we are facing longer term issues needing longer term, more thought out solutions. Maxine Williams I think the bottom line in clearing up our community is dealing with youngsters. From my point of view a lot of parents are in denial about their children and the way they are behaving. My husband and I are there for our 4 children, and are very involved with them, do activities with them. Parents need to take responsibility for how their children are behaving. Yvonne Field Over the past year my group has struggled to bring together members of the black community, Probably due to lack of time. The small network I am part of did meet on the Tuesday after the riots. We don’t have a proper infrastructure for BME organisations, since REAL - but we do have the energy and the commitment, but we need the support from the council. Cllr Alan Hall I’m one of a number of local councillors who are at this meeting and I represent Bellingham - which isn’t in the north of the borough but is an area of deprivation. Would like to thank the police, and also fire, ambulance and care staff and people who kept services like Meals on Wheels going and looked after many vulnerable people. Very much agree with panel that we do need facts but we each have our own prejudices about why this happened- e.g. the economy for me, but that is not the whole answer. I will ensure that the Scrutiny part of the council looks at this in the wider context, use our powers of liaison with the police to look at what we can do improve community cohesion, and within our limited resources, proactively to lobby and to get more value. Also agree with the Mayor that youth services have not been cut. Antoinette Adams Do you think Police Officers correctly identified people from CCTV footage? J Burton We have identified people in a number of ways, including CCTV. If we identify Page 7 Page 6 of 8 someone who has committed a criminal act we go to court and get a warrant, we arrest them, and interview, and if there is sufficient evidence to charge them with an offence, then the Crown Prosecution Service authorises that they be charged and put before a court, and if there isn’t then they are bailed, and the result of that may be that they are released without charge. Antoinette Adams The reason why I ask is my 19yr old son was arrested for theft of a 32” TV but he only has use of one arm. At the magistrate hearing the evidence wasn’t available for all the charges. How do you think I feel as a parent? Kieza de Souza Hi everyone - I am the current young mayor of Lewisham. I’ve got a few things I want to say. I agree with some of the points that the lady made, it is important to know what your children are doing - to know where your 13 year old is at 10pm. But at same time - I don’t want to hear that it is young people who are ruining our communities, I was watching the looting of JD Sports in Catford and saw 65 year olds, mothers and young children and grown men out there. How many people went out and robbed food? Who are they learning from to steal TVs and trainers - you lot - expenses scandals. It takes a village to raise a child - to be honest my parents weren’t the best but they weren’t the only ones that raised me, I had people like Donna, behind me, a great teacher who I’ve known since primary school, my grandma, my auntie. We can’t just blame the parents, who taught the parents? The parents parents - they are going on the media and saying that its our fault and they are prosecuting peoples sons for things they didn’t do. So we need to look at what everyone in the community is doing. Are you mentoring young people? I’m sick and tired of the blame being put on young people, because I’m no longer like that, I know I’m more qualified than some of the people sitting in this room right now and I’m 18 years old. There are people who want to contribute to the growth of young people, this is you lots problem, you listen to us, but you don’t act on us. Do you know how much support I need to go to university in September? I’m just about getting it you know and I was born down the road, but hardly anyone round here is doing anything for me. Simon Mynott I wrote down my question and it didn’t get answered. I’d like to say that there are a lot of guilty people in this room. (Audience member - speak for yourself) In my question I asked how you were going to communicate with community groups. Has been volunteering since 2000, and has gone down hill financially, wants to do things but people in the council are blocking him. Has gone to schools and council and told them how they can help young black men who are not doing well and they have gone “why you criticising” I’m not criticising, it’s about the young people that you see dying. I’ve written probably over 60 letters to the council, I’ve written to schools - they really don’t want to hear it. I’ve finished now. The youth club called The Arches got shut down because we didn’t have enough members. I want to look at how the communication works. (chair asks him to finish as he has gone way over his two minutes) sorry my dear but I’ve given a lot and I want to talk. I want to feel valued, I want to talk to the Mayor, if he can say yes by the end then we can sit down and talk. Royston John My question wasn’t answered - I asked the Borough Commander what social measures you have in mind going forward? Tayo Disu - I appreciate that there are a lot of people here, but we do have time constraints who have something to say. If you write down your question I can promise you a written response. J Burton I did cover that part, but clearly not as fully as you liked. Firstly what do you mean by social measures, social measures are something that the whole society needs to effect. If you mean community engagement I gave a fairly comprehensive answer to earlier written question including the one from Yvonne Field about what we are doing now, and what we are planning. The police has a specific role about keeping people safe and preventing crime. We do that in part by enforcing law, raising awareness, by engaging, by diverting people from crime. We cant do any of that with out help from the community. Given the time constraints that we have got I think it would be better for us to meet separately outside this meeting. S Bullock On the issues around parenting - need to be honest with ourselves, trickles down the generations, bad parents produce another generation of bad parents. I doubt whether Page 8 Page 7 of 8 anybody who has taken the trouble to come tonight is a bad parent. It is the minority who don’t want to engage - that is the cycle we have to break. Yvonne asked a question about a new race relations organisation - we do need to get that up and running people are working on that and I expect to see something happen quickly. Simon is asking specific questions about proposals he has come to us with, I am happy to have a meeting with you to talk about that. But, the volumes of people come to us with requests and proposals, we cannot ever meet all of them, we have to work with those we think would be most effective. Tayo Disu then asked for any further questions or suggestions to be put in writing. And took one final question: Chief O Sheveirie - First I would like to congratulate the Young Mayors Jacob and Kieza - we need more of them. Our MPs don’t come here - they are in parliament blaming police, blaming parents, I know there are some bad parents but who is the cause of all this. Why is the law stopping police and parents from criticising or disciplining our children. These riots are caused by the government, at my age my duty is to advise everyone, to advise the government - we need to see our MPS take our problems to the parliament, now they are saying they will put more police on the streets. But we are saying prevention is better than cure. 8. Closing Remarks from Vice Chair Tayo Disu thanked everyone for their attendance and participation, and noted that the next meeting will be on Tuesday October 11. Page 9 Page 8 of 8