Virginia could be on hook for $1B Midtown Tunnel debt

Transcription

Virginia could be on hook for $1B Midtown Tunnel debt | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
5/3/13 10:23 AM
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HOME » NEWS
Virginia could be on hook for $1B Midtown Tunnel debt
Posted to: News State Government Tolls Traffic - Transportation
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By Dave Forster
The Virginian-Pilot
© May 3, 2013
The state would be on the hook for more than a
billion dollars of debt if a judge's ruling striking
down the Midtown and Downtown tunnel tolls
stands, according to a ratings agency.
Afternoon rush-hour traffic exiting the Portsmouth
side of the Midtown Tunnel. (Martin Smith-Rodden |
The Virginian-Pilot)
View full-size photo | Buy Pilot photos
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RELATED
Judge: Midtown Tunnel toll deal is
unconstitutional - May. 2, 2013
Elizabeth River Crossings reports tunnel
improvements - Apr. 15, 2013
VDOT partner releases info on Midtown
subcontractors - Mar. 29, 2013
Midtown tunnel operators shield names of
contractors - Mar. 17, 2013
Portsmouth council set to give $50,000 to tolls
lawsuit - Feb. 14, 2013
Portsmouth Circuit Judge James A. Cales Jr.
declared the tolls unconstitutional Wednesday,
saying the General Assembly exceeded its
authority by delegating to the state transportation
department "unfettered power" to set the rates
"without any real or meaningful parameters."
Gov. Bob McDonnell said the state will appeal the
decision to the Supreme Court of Virginia, and
representatives from the Virginia Department of
Transportation and its private partner said work will
continue on the $2.1 billion project.
On Thursday, Elizabeth River Crossings OpCo
LLC sent a public reminder that workers will close
a lane on the Portsmouth approach to the Midtown
Tunnel this weekend to install traffic sensors.
Dredging for a second tunnel tube - the primary
component of the multifaceted construction project
- is scheduled to begin this month.
The plaintiffs in the lawsuit that led to Cales' ruling
have maintained since filing their challenge in July
that the state was proceeding with the project at its
own risk.
Fitch Ratings told investors in an April 9 report that
if the litigation stopped Elizabeth River Crossings
from collecting tolls, the state would be required by
its contract to repay the debt that has been
incurred for the project.
That amount includes $663.75 million in private
bonds that were issued in April 2012 and a $422
million federal loan, according to the Fitch report.
Elizabeth River Crossings bears the risk of
repaying that debt under the normal terms of its
http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/virginia-could-be-hook-1b-midtown-tunnel-debt
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Page 1 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
agreement with the state, with tolling.
Fitch assigned a rating of BBB- on the debt, the
lowest rating for investment-grade debt. Ratings
lower than that fall into a category that investors
consider speculative, said Scott Zuchorski, Fitch's
primary analyst on the Elizabeth River Crossings
account.
Representatives from VDOT, the governor's office
and the secretary of finance referred questions
Thursday about the state's exposure on the
Midtown Tunnel deal to Secretary of Transportation
Sean Connaughton, who did not return calls for
comment.
The Fitch report said any state obligation would be
subject to appropriation by Virginia legislators.
Zuchorski said Cales' ruling doesn't change his view of the debt rating because of the state's
responsibility to pay, though he added that Fitch will continue to monitor the case. Tolls, beginning at
$1.84 during peak travel periods for passenger vehicles with E-ZPass transponders, are scheduled to
begin Feb. 1.
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"If it's not resolved by the end of next January, then it could become more interesting," Zuchorski said.
Ratings downgrades cause the price of bonds to fall, potentially leading to losses to investors.
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Patrick McSweeney, the lead attorney for the plaintiffs, on Thursday clarified comments he made after
Cales' ruling that he said were misconstrued. He predicted the decision would have an impact on the
credit market but would not adversely affect the state's credit rating.
The state has committed more than $400 million to the project, including about $100 million to delay
the start of tolling from 2012 to early 2014. Two of the private entities involved in the project - Skanska
Infrastructure Development and Macquarie Infrastructure and Real Assets - have invested $272 million
in equity.
McSweeney has said it could take the better part of this year for an appeal to be resolved, if a panel of
justices agrees to send it to the Supreme Court for a hearing.
Elizabeth River Crossings' timeline shows that the work that has begun or is scheduled to begin this
year includes utility relocations, rehabilitation of the westbound Downtown Tunnel tube, widening of
Interstate 264, fabrication of the new Midtown tube and construction of approaches to the new tunnel.
Norman Thomas, an assistant Virginia attorney general helping defend VDOT in the lawsuit, told Cales
in Wednesday's hearing that tolling revenue must first pay off the costs of the project before Elizabeth
River Crossings can make a profit. The company is authorized to earn an annualized rate of return of
13.5 percent on its $272 million investment.
Outreach Phlebotomist
Hampton Roads Area, VA Bayview
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The deal involves the construction of a second Midtown Tunnel tube, renovation of the tunnels,
extension of the Martin Luther King Jr. Freeway in Portsmouth to I-264, and the private operation and
maintenance of the tunnels for 58 years.
Peak-hour tolls are scheduled to run from 5:30 to 9 a.m. and from 2:30 to 7 p.m. on weekdays.
Passenger vehicles will pay $1.59 during other times. Trucks will be tolled $7.36 during peak hours and
$4.77 during off-peak hours.
Dave Forster, 757-446-2627, [email protected]
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QUESTION?
Submitted by i just wanted t... on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 1:54 pm.
--If the courts say that the contract was not legal,--then the state should not be liable for the debt.,-http://hamptonroads.com/2013/05/virginia-could-be-hook-1b-midtown-tunnel-debt
Page 2 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
but then you know lawyers and the things they do.--most of the time they put in things that can go
anyway they want, at a later date.
--so who had the best lawyers?--we shall see!--should not have been done that way in the first
place.
--frank in va.bch.
Login to your account to post comments report violation hide all comments from this user
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PAY FOR THE TUNNEL WITH CASINOS
Submitted by COACHQUEEN on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 1:59 pm.
Why don't VA come into the Millenum and get with the rest of the Commonwealth States. Simple
solution open some Casinos to pay for the tunnel, bring revenue and jobs to our State. Stop forcing
your personal beliefs on everyone else. We are already gambling in Virginia, We have horse racing,
bingo, lottery and poker houses! So what is the problem. Please stop using the old cliche "Crime" it
does not fly. Wake up VA and smell the roses!
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I THOUGHT WE DIDNT HAVE GAMBLING(AS YOU SAY)
Submitted by THOMASLEE on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:22 pm.
not because of personal beliefs but because "the poor will spend their last dollar on gambling,and
not buying that loaf of bread for their hungry childrens" that's why i thought we didn't have
gambling, because the liberals don't want that to happen
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REALITY
Submitted by ACCylumBeard on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:58 pm.
They aren't buying that loaf of bread with their last dollar anyway. WIC or Food Stamps are.
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I KNOW
Submitted by THOMASLEE on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 10:54 pm.
but that's what they used as an excuse. and they still will, they have to pull at the heart strings
to get their views across
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AL THGOSE POOR STARVING PEOPLE IN
Submitted by vbbum on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 7:15 am.
All those poor starving people in Las Vegas, New Jersey, Ohio, West Virginia, Delaware and the
20 some other states that have Casinos. Not like the rich over fed people in Virginia. Since most
ofnthe republican led states have poor starving people, I would think a better cause of poor
starving people would be if they had republican legislatures.
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JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY
Submitted by Esau on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 1:59 pm.
Just another example of why this deal represents the absolute worst negotiation in the history of this
state, ever, as conducted by McDonnell and his Transportation Secretary.
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5/3/13 10:23 AM
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IT'S SO LOPSIDED I HESITATE
Submitted by Goldbricker on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 5:02 pm.
It's so lopsided I hesitate to call it a negotiation. More like an outright hand out.
WHAT DOES FITCH KNOW...
Submitted by Cit-com on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:01 pm.
...that isn't in the public domain? Sounds as if "propriety information" has been stretched to include
keeping this bit out of the public eye.
Damages for work done that might be continued under another contract are one thing, even though
the project isn't the best solution (or any solution) to our traffic problems. One billion dollars in
damages as a result of VDOT (and let's face it, the governor and secretary of transportation) moving
ahead with construction despite the lawsuit, and contractual obligations that have not been
disclosed to the public--that's a whole new story.
There's something fishy here, and it isn't in the Elizabeth River, just in the Crossings...
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OH, I BET OLD BOB HAS A HEADACHE NOW (ANOTHER ONE)
Submitted by joanm18327 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:02 pm.
Chuckle, chuckle, heee, heee, heee. lol!
GO AFTER WHO EVER SIGNED THE
Submitted by ethan2 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:03 pm.
Go after who ever signed the contracts personally.
We still don't know the benefits the politicians that made this happen. You know there is benefits
there in this deal. There always is.
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HELLO
Submitted by surfcaster on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:26 pm.
Its called campaign contributions. The legislators garantee huge profits to a private company,
(ERP) who in turn makes large campaign contributions to the legislators that got the company the
deal in the first place. I never hear anyone here talk about this as an element to the whole thing,
but believe me, it is. They can then scratch each other's backs for the next 58 years, at our
expense, of course.
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NON-PARTISAN CONCERNS
Submitted by Cit-com on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 8:47 am.
We've avoided (insofar as possible) anything that could be construed as politically biased
commentary on all NoTollsHR.org sites out of respect for the political diversity of our coalition.
However, it is interesting to note that our governor went to Sweden shortly after the
VDOT/ERCO contract was signed. (SKANSKA, the major construction partner in ERCO, is a
Swedish company.) There's nothing quite like a personal "thank you."
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5/3/13 10:23 AM
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AND ITS ALL BOB MC'S FAULT.
Submitted by zatoony on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:04 pm.
And its all Bob Mc's fault. They should make him pay personally since he worked out this backroom
deal without input from the locales or representatives.
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THIS WAS THE WORST DEAL EVER
Submitted by dogpen on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:08 pm.
& now it gets even worse when we find out this tid-bit of info. This is McD's legacy, a billion $ bill for
absolutely "NOTHING". Thanks Gov..
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HOW MANY BRIBES ARE BEING
Submitted by rmccord993 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:09 pm.
How many bribes are being re-couped?
PENNIES ........
Submitted by MaryEllen23703 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:18 pm.
It sounds a lot better than the $58,000,000,000.00 that we are required to end up paying !
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ONE BILLION? CHUMP CHANGE, REALLY,
Submitted by RoosterB on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:21 pm.
considering it's not coming out of anyone's pockets other than the taxpayer - and we all ought to
know by now just how deep THEM pockets are, right?
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THAT IS WHY
Submitted by Charles Rhodes on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:09 pm.
we must insist the involved elected officials, from the Governor, to the Lt Governor, to T
Commonwealth Attorney and all General Assembly members be fined for their lack of due
diligence to the Constitution of Virginia. Frankly, if the judge is correct they are all guilty of
malfeasance and should be fined and jailed.
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WHY STOP THERE?
Submitted by GotLabradors on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 9:09 pm.
Why don't we just go old school on them and tar and feather their behinds on the steps of the
Virginia Capitol?
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SO I GOT A QUESTION, ABOUT THE APPEAL
Submitted by MisBHayVin on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:29 pm.
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5/3/13 10:23 AM
If/when the appeal goes through and if/when it gets reversed that will mean to us that the Virginia
constitution means nothing if it costs enough money we will change the law?I don't want to see the
people get this cost put on them ether way but it will be,and the worst part is I know of no one,not
one person that wanted better tunnels!I think the tooth removing,car destroying,roads should be the
main focus.But as VDOT is broke and not able to even afford pot hole repair I can see why they
wanted to make a billion dollar tunnel that should only cost three million,that could mean lots of
raises in pay,I mean roads fixed!Why don't we wake up and dump the good old boy voting and get
honest people in charge!Oh thats right there are none
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WELL WE THINK WE KNOW HOW MUCH WAS RAKED OFF ON THE
Submitted by dand34234 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:34 pm.
Star Scientific deal, how much of this maloderous tunnel scheme went into secret Caymen Island
accounts for Bob and Ken.
We already know that they are crooks, are they petty crooks or big time crooks?
Time for the probe.
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IN 2 WORDS
Submitted by jettyhop on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:48 pm.
Bob's folly.
DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THE
Submitted by usnacnd on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 2:49 pm.
Does no one remember the referendum that the people voted on? That was the start of the
public/private mess!
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STATE ON THE HOOK FOR MILLIONS
Submitted by goody26 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:02 pm.
And the madness continues...........
PORTSMOUTH AND
Submitted by jfr on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:49 pm.
its "law makers" Should be the ones to pay this and NOT the state!!! Actions have consequences
and folks need to be "responsible" for their actions!!!
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JUST LIKE OTHER ENTITLEMENT RECIPIENTS
Submitted by doug10 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:34 pm.
They want something for nothing, meaning they want something that someone else pays for. If
they don't want the tolls, then stop the work and just let them sit in traffic every day.
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THEY SHOULD'VE ASKED THE PEOPLE FIRST
Submitted by up2nogood on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:45 pm.
If they'd bothered to check with people first about their level of interest in this project and their
willingness to pay these high tolls, it wouldn't have happened in the first place. This new tunnel
is a joke because it is not going to provide very much relief. The Midtown tunnel dumps onto a
4 lane road through a historic district in Norfolk with a speed limit of 30 and the road cannot be
expanded. They will simply move the gridlock spot from the Portsmouth side of the tunnel to
just outside of the tunnel in Norfolk. It's certainly not a change worth $58B.
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TRUST ME, WITH THE TOLLS
Submitted by NewEnglandpatsfan on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:54 pm.
Trust me, with the tolls they will be sitting in traffic anyway. With the scheduled increases built
into this deal I won't be able to afford to use the tunnels.
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HERE HERE
Submitted by bfoster35 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 6:00 pm.
Excellent Idea. Let us not spend 22 billion and I will be happy to sit in the same traffic.
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WHAT
Submitted by Charles Rhodes on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:12 pm.
do you mean? Don't we in Portsmouth pay taxes also and expect our elected officials to spend
them wisely without unnecessarily enriching their donors? Or are you just generally antiPortsmouth no matter what?
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POLITICAL IDIOCY
Submitted by ACCylumBeard on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:03 pm.
Both the Legislative and the Executive branches of the Commonwealth Government are to blame.
How can you allow a private company to receive nearly a 200% return on their initial investment? It
should've been a STATE WIDE gas tax (as I voted for back when it was on the table). Northern
Virginia receives goods from the shipping ports down here. Why should they be allowed to benefit
without sharing part of the cost? The City planners for this area have historically been idiots as well.
With 20+ different military related installations in Hampton Roads there should have been more
crossings built from the jump OR larger ones in the beginning.
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TIME FOR ANOTHER GIFT?
Submitted by quiturcryin on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:18 pm.
May Guvnah Bob can call in another favor/gift from his pal Jonnie Williams to pay for it....or sell
advertising rights to Star Scientific for signs & banners on the crossingN
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"SELL ADVERTISING RIGHTS" - NOT A BAD IDEA.
Submitted by JPOV on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:19 pm.
I understand the tenor of your statement, but that might work. Not necessarily Star but a couple of
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5/3/13 10:23 AM
electronic billboards at the entrance to each tunnel where ADS could be displayed. LOTS of
money spent on advertising. It should be an easy sell. Thousands would see it every day.
Just a thought. It could be said that it is accident potential but they could be placed farther back
then right at the entrance.
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EXPAND ON THAT
Replace all of those silly signs with three lines of dot matrix print with full color screens. The state
could sell ads all over the state when there is no traffic to report.
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LAST TIME I DROVE TO NYC OR
Submitted by ethan2 on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 9:44 am.
Last time I drove to NYC or Boston I noticed one of the states had full RGB pixel signs above
the interstate that simply said buckle up. Could of had ads. Of course, in Virginia new billboards
are illegal so Adams outdoor might take offense.
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TUNNEL DEBT
Submitted by margaretw94423 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:19 pm.
But if someone makes a contract that is illegal, it is unenforceable. That's standard business law.
Other than that, I have to say that it's better the state than Portsmouth should have to repay or pay
that amount. The state does have deeper pockets than Portsmouth.
And now why has ERC been so eager trying to get all of this stuff done anyway in the face of a
court case? Who would tell them that a court case should not be respected? I didn't think that
judges took kindly to that kind of attitude.
Does ERC have grounds to sue Gov. Bob McDonnell, Att. Gen. Kenneth Cuccinelli and VA.
Secretary of Transportation Sean Connaughton as individuals, for making an illegal agreement? I
would hate to see ERC get taken.
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CORRECTION VP
Submitted by volkss on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:27 pm.
At the end of this article it reads, "Electronic tolls are scheduled to begin Feb. 1, 2014"
It should read, "Take your dirty TOLLS and Shove Em!"
A big thank you for all of those that have worked and donated to get this UNCONSTITUTIONAL
deal yanked. Without the dedication of all those involved my daughter and future grandchildren
would've been paying for this robbery. Heads high Hampton Roads. Get ready cause this fight is
just beginning.
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UNITED WE STAND.
Submitted by Sullytown on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 5:27 pm.
United we stand.
I HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM
Submitted by JohnnyRockets53 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:40 pm.
Page 8 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
Why don't we just leave the tunnel alone?
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TAKE YOUR TOLL
Submitted by debral29391 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:43 pm.
Proud of those that made this happen. The appeal will be interesting. No fan of Gov Bob and his AG
Cuccinelli. Their crony capitalism stinks and for today at least, they lose.
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AHHH
Submitted by JCB on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:49 pm.
I don’t believe the courts said the contract was illegal just how the state planned to pay for it. Which
means the contract still stands but the state has to come up with a legal way to pay for it.
In other words it is illegal for me to rob gas stations to pay my house mortgage. But that doesn’t
mean I don’t have to pay the mortgage.
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COMPLICATED
Submitted by Cit-com on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 9:18 am.
It's more complicated than that. The financial underpinnings of the deal are essential to the
contract. The toll rates and fee rates are not just a minor part of the deal, and the fact that VDOT
had no actual power to agree to those financial details affects its status as a signatory to the
contract. I think.
This doesn't necessarily mean that Virginia taxpayers won't have to pay some damages. There
are many details of the financial elements of the contract that are still not available to the public
but had to be submitted to the rating agencies for risk analysis. Only the public needed to be kept
in the dark so this deal could go through--and that is why the PPTA must be overhauled or
repealed.
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TAXES
Submitted by 44ford on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 3:57 pm.
The state has wanted to raise the gas tax, which hasn't been raise in a long time, but the people in
western Va. said no. If this judges decision stands and the state has to pay, guess what. Taxes will
be raised, like it or not.
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REAL LAWYERS WILL HIRED FOR THE APPELATE WORK, NOT KEN'S
Submitted by streetglide on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:02 pm.
boys and girls. They will hire some big name firm in Richmond and the defendants will win, The
Portsmouth judge just wanted his neighbors to like him
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1 BILLION DOLLAR REPAYMENT PLAN
I have a great idea to repay this. How about every single person who signed off on this project loses
vacation pay, sick day pay, personal family leave pay, any additional raise pay, and their pension
until the amount is paid back? They want this project at any cost, then maybe they should get a
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5/3/13 10:23 AM
taste of what it is like to have every last cent squeezed out. They got us into this and now they could
get us out of it.
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I DON'T THINK SO
Submitted by doobrah on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:07 pm.
If the judge says the tolls are unconstitutional, then the tolls would not go into effect in February.
And how about hold ol' Bob personally responsible for paying back the $1B? I'd like to see ERT lose
their collective shirts on this deal.
Why allow a company to build roads at an exhorbitant profit and of great cost to a few, when all the
other roads in the state are paid for through the Transportation Fund? Not just
UNCONSTITUTIONAL, but patently unfair.
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PAYBACK
Submitted by jjackson on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 4:14 pm.
You all sit and gloat that a biased judge ruled but if his ruling stands it will be a long long time for
Hampton Roads traffic problems are addressed again. You all will just have to suck it up and live
with it.
Meanwhile VDOT can concentrate on the rest of the state.
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IT'S BETTER THAN SADDLING
Submitted by Goldbricker on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 5:08 pm.
It's better than saddling future generations with a bunch of greedy pigs at the troth collecting tolls
until the end of time.
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FINE, LEAVE THEM ALONE !!
I regularly travel both tunnels,sometimes several times a day. I am fine with them staying as is.
They are really easy to get thru with minimal delay if you know where your going. Never more than
20 min or so unless it closes for some reason.
If is too bad the Jordan Bridge is a nice private bridge with only a $1 toll.
The Patriot crossing or third tunnel at the HRBT is much more needed for this area.
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TIME TO HOP IN THE FERRARI FOR A LAKE-SIDE GETAWAY
Submitted by TR on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 5:03 pm.
Bob and the GOPTers should have simply raised the gas tax. Instead, their Party's sworn oath to
Grover drove them (pun!) into this cluster. (Yes, i know this is a state level debacle but these pols all
wanna go national... and what is party doctrine at the Natty level trickles down, as Ronnie would
say).
So now an army of gubmint attorneys, at the direction of Bob and Ken, will scramble to pull fannies - and the state -- from the fire. Heckuva Job.
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ARE YOU
Page 10 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
Submitted by jld30182 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:26 pm.
serious? The voters rejected raising the gas tax. That was not an option and you know it. I hate it
when folks try to misrepresent facts to make someone look bad. If you felt he should have done it
in spite of the referendum, then I ask where is your criticism of Gov. Kaine? Does that mean
because of his lack of effort on even addressing the transportation issue, that you did not vote for
him for Senator? If that is the case, then you are consistent rather then just a shill for the other
party.
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UH, BOB RAISED THE SALES
Uh, Bob raised the sales tax.
Kaine ran into the stonewall Grover crowd.
HOW EXACTLY DID THE VOTERS REJECT RAISING THE GAS TAX?
Sorry, but i am not familiar with how "the voters rejected the tax increase". When was this?
Regarding Kaine, i believe that he has been FOR raising the gas tax, but that idea has always
been rejected by politicos on the other side of the aisle.
From MACON CONSERVATIVE (2008)
(which perfectly illustrates my point, adhere to party doctrine):
Tim Kaine: RAISE THE GAS TAX!
If any Republican in the General Assembly votes to raise the gas tax, they should be primaried
and targeted for defeat.
~~~
From WaPo:
RICHMOND, April 29, 2008 -- Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) said Tuesday that he would consider
backing an increase in Virginia's 17.5 cent-a-gallon gasoline tax,
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SAY WHAT?
Submitted by dog_bones on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 5:23 pm.
The Judge: "This is against the Va. constitution".
Gov Mc D: "Say what? I am the governor." I can do whatever I want!" (stomps feet) "Not fair!"
The Judge: "Go to your room and stand in the corner."
Gov Mc D: "Which corner?"
The Judge: "I don't care which corner you choose. You are the governor. Just pick a corner."
Gov Mc D: (pouts) "Still not fair!"
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THAT
Submitted by robertm99871 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:49 pm.
was very adult!
Page 11 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
I GUESS THE TOLLS JUST WENT UP TO $3.50
Submitted by worldview23451 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 5:25 pm.
Like everything else it will be the poor folks who use these tolls that will be paying. We know the
contracts covered everyone on this deal even if it goes bad.
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BOB! SET UP SOME MORE FEES!
Submitted by joanm18327 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 6:22 pm.
$65 per year for motorcycles, $50 a year for bicycles, and $25 a year for granny's wheelchair.
None of those owners are putting enough gas in their tanks to pay their fair share. Put a camera
on the tunnel and put a fee on every driver that makes it through for the privilege of making it
through without a new bumper-thumper or without rear-ending the vehicle ahead of them. Problem
solved. So now go and enjoy one of those catered dinners and send the leftovers to the people
who are waiting to get through the tunnels.
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PICTURE
If that the picture the VP took is rush hour traffic at the midtown tunnel then we really don't need any
new capacity.
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TOLLS
Submitted by waynep on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:06 pm.
This deal was so one sided against the state and the people that one has to hope that someone
was getting a kickback. The alternative is the assumption of stupidity. I believe that the Gov. and
his cronies were well aware that the contract was illegally established. They assumed that the
people would back off when they realized how much a court fight would cost. They were wrong. I
presume that are pushing on knowing that it was a difficult stretch to come up with the money so
far, and it will be equally hard for the next round . If they are assuming that anyone is going to roll
over and play dead for that reason, they will be wrong again. It was irresponsible to proceed with
this plan while it's legality was challenged, now pay up!
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OF COURSE IT IS ONE SIDED
Submitted by portworker on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:35 pm.
Have you noticed that your mortgage payment or car payment has a LOT of interest payment
and a little prinicple payment up front?
The "one sided" is probably for the private company to build the third tunnel (do we really need a
third tunnel?) NOW.
Once the third tunnel is built (which isn't a toll tunnel) the traffic goes down and the lopsided
profit goes down.
It is too bad that gas taxes both federal and state doesn't go into a locked box. That is the main
reason we have such lousy infrastructure problems. If it is revenue then the government will
spend it - on anything else but.
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"THIRD TUNNEL ISN'T A TOLL TUNNEL"???????
Page 12 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
Submitted by 2WildBill2 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 11:17 pm.
portworker comment Thu 5/02/2013
I have seen many of your comments -- but I can not understand what you are talking about.
You say "Once the third tunnel is built (which isn't a toll tunnel) the traffic goes down and the
lopsided profit goes down."
Under the present agreement ALL tunnel tubes, the three existing AND the "new" tube will be
tolled -- for 58 years.
Total traffic will not go down because a new tube is built -- there will be NO change in the
"lopsided profit".
As to comparing a mortgage payment or car payment with the present contract. Have YOU
ever had one which resulted in your total payments adding to TEN TIMES the amount
"borrowed". (A bank loan -- not a Payday Lone.) But mmaybe VDOT DOES have a PayDay
Loan.
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PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT WAS SAID
Submitted by portworker on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 12:34 am.
The poster said they couldn't understand why paying tolls BEFORE the tunnel is built. That's
where the mortgage or car payment response came in - the people want their "profit" up front
in case something happens.
If the third tunnel is also a toll tunnel then the "profit" should be essentially the same at a
constant level. I have heard the third tunnel would be a not be a toll tunnel as part of the deal.
Maybe it is going to be a toll tunnel. Maybe in 20 years we will all have Star Wars
landskimmers and no roads needed. Maybe the Mayan were correct and the world will end
12/21/2012.
If you are worried about some company making a profit then find the money NOW (not after
years of higher taxes years) to build the new tunnel.
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CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY TOLL ENDS TOMORROW...
Submitted by worldview23451 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 6:56 pm.
I guess we do not have to pay the toll on the Chesapeake Expressway. That is a scam private
partnership deal if there ever was one....$6 in peak summer...no oversight in Richmond...that's got
to go...
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THE CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY
Submitted by Cathleen on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 8:53 pm.
The Chesapeake Expressway was not built with a public-private partnership. It was state-funded.
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CITY OF CHESAPEAKE PAYED FOR THE CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY
Submitted by worldview23451 on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 12:35 am.
So you think the State would fund a road and leave the tolling authority with the Chesapeake
City Council to do with what they will with raising or lowering??? Not. The revenue from tolls of
the Chesapeake Expressway goes to the City of Chesapeake. Tolls are voted on by the City of
Chesapeake. Do you not know this? This is how Chesapeake paid for the road
financing is unique. The Chesapeake dedicated its share of the State recordation taxes
distributed to localities to pay for approximately half of the annual debt service. The other half of
Page 13 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
the debt service will come from local general revenues and is being provided by the City of
Chesapeake through a contract with the State.
So now you know.
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CHICKEN LITTLE THE SKY IS FALLING REPORTING
Submitted by mike71329 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:06 pm.
The deal was just struck a year ago, they have not spent a billion bucks in the past year. There is no
way the Feds are giving a private company $400mil and then the company keeps the money and
the state pays it back. Fat chance. The inability to toll is a deal breaker that will void the contract of
upheld.
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THEN
Submitted by jld30182 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:18 pm.
don't build it. This is what Portsmouth and Norfolk citizens asked for. Just put up with the traffic.
Simple enough.
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I TOO HATE TOLLS
We all know that in 2008 the state supreme court said the REGIONAL transportation agencies
cannot tax.
We all know that southwest Virginia's politicians will not get an increase in the gas tax because
southwest Virginia will not get their tax money back to their region.
The judge was probably wrong in that the state or a city or a county can lease a government
property to a private citizens or a private company and the private company or private citizens can
do just about anything they want.
If a city wants a pro team to come there and leases the land for a stadium for 58 years, the the pro
team stadium "owners" can charge admission tickets. Is the admission ticket fee a TAX? Of course
not. Neither is a toll on a LEASED tunnel.
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ONLY PORTWORKER CAN TAKE A STORY ABOUT A COURT RULING
... shooting down Bob's magical mystery toll tour and end up railing about a "pro team and
admission tickets". Epic GlennBeckian misdirection, with a hint of crazy. I picture a heavily
illustrated whiteboard behind your computer desk.
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STILL RESORTING TO PERSONAL ATTACKS?
Are you saying that you cannot understand the LEASING of a city owned property to the pro
team means the pro team can charge an admission fee IS THE SAME CONCEPT AS THE ERC
TUNNELS?
Are you saying that you DISagree with the legal community that the long held practice of public
private deals in Virginia is in jeopardy because the judge said "leasing" is unconstitutional?
The defendant was VDOT but the entity receiving the tolls was ERC. Maybe you are more able
to explain how that works.
Isn't the saying that if you cannot discuss ideas and ideals that you discuss people?
Page 14 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
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DREAM ON
Submitted by BillyBones on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 7:30 pm.
There is no way the state of Virginia will allow one judge to stop this project. The Governor will find
a way around this ruling. Really, all the judge said is VDOT cannot become the taxing authority.
They can re-structure the deal and have the state collect tolls and pay them to ERC. Mark my
words, this project is going forward!
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PAYING
Submitted by ChuckW698 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 8:03 pm.
Someone is going to pay for it. Either the people who use the tunnels, with tolls, or everyone in the
state, by higher taxes. The contract is signed, so the project is going to proceed. For those who
don't want tolls, where do you thing the money is coming from to pay the bills.
Remember a few years ago the state wanted to raise the gas tax to pay for this project, and the
people voted it down. They were told then that if they did not pass the law, that tolls were coming.
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ACTUALY.................
Submitted by BillyBones on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 10:18 pm.
I do remember and it was a sales tax, not a gasoline tax the people voted down. It was the best
option then and should have been passed. The major problem is as a people we just don't trust
Government at any level to spend our money wisely. Why should we, they rarely do!
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AGREED
Submitted by xptown on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 8:54 pm.
And to all those saying they should just stop building it, remember that 2/3 of the money has
already been spent. To stop now would be a total waste of money. And yes, this can be easily
restructured. A separate commission would be created with tolling authority.
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HOW ABOUT MAKING THE TERM OF
How about making the term of the deal 30 years instead of 60? Make them add a new tunnel on
the Downtown. No guaranteed 13% profits and get rid of the no compete clause. Cut the toll by
half.
There's a better way to structure this rotten deal!
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YOU MAY BE CORRECT, BUT THE
You may be correct, but the dye has been cast.
There's always an all out boycott.
I'll never set foot in this thing having watched what transpired in Richmond.
This needs to backfire at all costs, if not, we continue to get trampled on.
Page 15 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
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THE SEQUEL TO GILMORE
Submitted by 895000 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 8:03 pm.
Had Gilmore been prosecuted for all of his unfunded highway projects then he would probably still
be in jail. The spotlight is now on McDonnell. This should be very interesting. McDonnell now has
bigger problems than explaining who paid for the wedding cake. But for his audacity and arrogance
I might feel sorry for McDonnell.
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NONFEASANCE
McDonnell and his Norquistian Sychophants in the General Assembly should all be prosecuted for
felony nonfeasance for gross and wanton neglect of state property. Perhaps what is left of the state
government could politely request yet another bailout from the Obama Administration.
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TUNNEL
Submitted by fairweather on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 8:38 pm.
Have you been to Northern Virginia recently and seen all of the work underway on Interstate 495?
There are no tolls on that road. Why not? Who pays for these improvements? Seems like the
same old story; all of the money goes north.
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BELTWAY
The Beltway is populated with highly educated achievers who are only dimly aware of their
connection to the rest of the state. They bypass Richmond to get what they want and they can
afford to pay for what they want. When Mark Warner was elected governor the General
Assembly treated him like he was a foreigner.
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WHAT DO THESE ACHEIVERS DO?
Do they make the bread, plow the field, weld the steel, tighten the bolts, write a sonnet, fly a
plane, teach a child, fill a prescription, or cook a meal for a homeless shelter? Do they wear a
gun and a badge? Do these "acheivers" lead a Boy Scout or Girl Scout troop?
Or do you confuse with powergrabbing with acheivement?
Many of these "acheivers" (like Mark Warner) got INSIDER STOCK INFORMATION
"acheivement" by being on the staff of some elected member of Congress. (Mark Warner was
on Senator Dodd's staff before he made his fortune on the wireless industry.)
Why does so much transportation money go to Senator Warner's country? Is that FAIR to the
rest of the state?
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LET THE IDIOTS
Submitted by madmikehoar on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 9:34 pm.
in Richmond pay. They are the ones who signed off on this boondoggle. I'm sure "bob for jobs" has
Page 16 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
some spare chump change that he can spare. His buddy at Star Scientific can cover some of the
debt.
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OKAY, YOU WON YOUR COURT CASE
Submitted by jimmyf on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 10:17 pm.
But before anyone who brought this lawsuit up I would simply say, 1) Be careful what you wish for,
you might get it and, 2) If you're going to shoot yourself in the foot, don't use a bazooka.
So now the entire state might have to pony up billions of dollars and pointing fingers is a little late
now, otherwise, just sit in traffic jams.
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REMEMBER IF THE STATE
Submitted by sw32578 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 10:39 pm.
Remember if the state government had been responsible and raised the gas tax over the years we
would not be in this spot.
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REMEMBER IF THE STATE
Submitted by sw32578 on Thu, 05/02/2013 at 10:39 pm.
Remember if the state government had been responsible and raised the gas tax over the years we
would not be in this spot.
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MOST LIKELY NOT TRUE.
Submitted by Reid_Greenmun on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 9:26 am.
We were told the same thing the LAST time the gas taxes were reaised.
Throwing more tax/toll funds into a slush fund doesn't mean the money will be spent wisely. Light
rail and not-actually-high-speed-rail boondoggles is a clear example of THAT!
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NEW REVENUE
Just throwing this out there, so you may want to hike up your tighty whities. Medical Marijuana is a
multi BILLION $ industry in this country. Only being taxed and regulated in less than half of the
states. Maryland became the 19th state to legalize medical mj today. Congrats to the terps. You can
ramble on about gas tax till your blue in the face but I see untapped revenue in a plant that most
people call medicine. Not only will there be additional funds/jobs provided by a new industry, but
think about the money freed up from not locking up nonviolent pot offenders. At $40000 a year for
an inmate we could pave a lot of miles of highway. Marijuana cures cancer. Look it up. Good night
Hampton Roads. Love thy neighbors. See u n traffic
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NOT SO QUICK
If the government thought they could tax marijuana it would be legal today.
That's just it, they can't, and they know it. It has to be the easiest plant on the face of the Earth for
Page 17 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
anyone, I repeat, anyone to cultivate. It grows like a weed in less than favorable conditions, give it
a little boost (a bag of cheap garden soil or composted dirt) and you're knee deep in bales of the
stuff.
Besides, don't be so quick to sell the ship to your local gov when it comes to something that grows
out of God's green Earth. They'll be taxing my backyard tomatoes next if you give them any extra
leash.
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THAT'S JUST THE QUESTION.
That's just the question. Why isn't it legal? I look at who contributes the most.
1. Police Departments= lots of budget comes from the war on drugs.
2. Prison industry=lots of money in keeping those prisons filled.
3. Tobacco and alcohol industry= who needs competition that doesn't kill their own clients?
4. Big Pharmacy= we call it medicine they call it competition
5. Police Unions=lots of jobs keeping people from making their own decisions
We are only 6 states away from half the country having legal medical mj and 2 states fully legal.
Soon to be regulating and taxing.
Like I was saying though at roughly $40,000 a year to house a pothead we could pave a whole
lot of highway. Gas tax isn't the end all. marijuana is an extra revenue.
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TUNNEL TOLLS DECISION
Submitted by plusSense on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 12:35 am.
Back in the 1990s, after a lot of public outcry, the tolls were ended. Why on earth would we
want to submit to tolls of more than 7 times the amounts we had back then? These planned
tolls would be a crushing blow to drivers in Hammpton Roads. Other areas of the state benefit
from the tunnels when goods are trucked to them. We should not have to suffer the tolls. The
state should pay for the tunnels like it does any other service it is required to provide. Pay for
them with the general revenue the state already has, by eliminating some of the unnecessary
budget items. If that's not possible, then taxes from the entire state should pay it. Sales tax
increase or gas tax increase. The Gov was going to increase them anyway.
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ALRIGHT NORTHERN VIRGINIA, PAY THE MAN.
Submitted by NO JONES on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 12:14 am.
Nuff said.
THIS PROJECT IN THE LAPS OF OUR LOCAL OFFICIALS NOT RICHMOND
You have to wonder at the comments pointing the fingers here. Whats missing is that this porject
gets approved locally. Gets pushed for locally. And gets built locally. Notice how quiet our local and
regional officals are. They know that to deflect all the criticisms to Richmond is in their best interest.
It there is any discussion for or against it starts with our local transportation folks and cities of
Norfolk and Portsmouth. This project was approved and pushed for by them. So if folks have issues
the Mayors of Portsmouth and Norfolk is where you start.
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THEY SHOULD BE ON THE HOOK.
Submitted by stevenm on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 12:30 am.
Page 18 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
They should be on the hook for the building of it. The state should be responsible for the building
and maintance of the infratstructure without the cost of tolls, period. It's not like we aren't being
taxed enough to get it done. They spend more money in northern va and have less virginia motorist
there. We are not being served efficently. Vote accordingly.
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4
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STATE COULD BE ON HOOK FOR $1 BILLION
Submitted by margaretw94423 on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 12:31 am.
The local officials did not have a voice in the public-private partnership.
YA KIDDING ME RIGHT? ALL PROJECTS ARE LOCAL
Thsi was pushed for and advocated for by the locals for years. We even tried to pass a sales tax
some years ago to fund all local transportation projects. It was a local effort..yes had to get
approval from Richmond. All transportation are generated first locally with our local transportation
authority..that the local mayors are on the Board and then taken to Richmond for approvial and
funding. The finished project idea is then signed off on by us local folks before VDOT or a private
company (jordan bridge) can proceed.
1
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CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY TOLLS HAVE TO COME DOWN FOLKS...
I would think that the next point of focus would be the $6 toll on the Chesapeake Expressway. In
this case instead of a company partnering with VDOT and the State the City of Chesapeake that
has no oversight from the State or region is controlling the tolls. How about the Chesapeake Bay
Bridge Tunnel. While there is a State appointed Board there they make their own decisions and toll
rate changes. $12 there.
1
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KEN CUCCINELLI WRONG AGAIN
Submitted by Howar12d on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 3:08 am.
Once again, just like Ken's lawsuit against the Affordable Health Care Act, which was subsequently
affirmed by Tea Party Chief Justice John Roberts and the entire Supreme Court, Ken has wasted
our tax dollars by judging the Midtown Tunnel Tolls to be constitutional.
Talk about a sweetheart deal, Elizabeth River Crossings would have received a guaranteed annual
return of 13.5% on its $272,000,000 investment. That's an annual giveaway of almost $30,000,000
of VA taxpayer money to friends of Ken Cuccinneli's and Gov. McDonnell. That makes the million
bucks in taxes that Ken's friend, Jonnie Williams owes VA look like a parking ticket.
Can you imagine how rich Ken's friends and daughters will get if he is elected Governor?
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INCORRECT
Submitted by letsgogolfing on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 9:26 am.
That's not how annualized rate of return is calculated...you should look it up before posting again;
there are investment tools all over the internet to help define it.
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Page 19 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
WHERE ARE OUR LOCAL OFFICIALS ON THIS SITUTATION?
You would think input of our local officials on this issue would be important. As they all signed off on
this deal....Do local officials want this deal scraped I wonder. Back to square one? It would be
interesting if the Pilot asked those questions to local Mayors and local transportation officials.
1
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THE TUNNEL AND OTHER WORK WON'T BE SCRAPPED
Submitted by RGMBill on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 8:00 am.
Whatwould happen is what should have happened all along... the statewill increase the gas tax
statewide to pay for it. The problem is way too many parts of the state "got theres" years ago, and
don't want to abide by the social shared good contract that had us help pay for their state
construction projects. This will actually help fix that.... there's no ducking their responsibility, which
is what the western lawmakers have been doing.
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SO WE ARE GOING TO SCRAP ALL CURRENT PROJECTS?
Scrap all current projects and convert existing similar projects..IE Chesapeake
Expressway...Dulles Toll road CBBT...ect and go from there?
Problem here is that it is not a matter of singleing out this tunnel project...its a statewide kind of
policy thing.
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"UNFETTERED POWER" CITY OF CHESAPEAKE FREAKING OUT YET?
Portsmouth Circuit Judge James A. Cales Jr. declared the tolls unconstitutional Wednesday, saying
the General Assembly exceeded its authority by delegating to the state transportation department
"unfettered power" to set the rates.....
Chesapeake Expressway and the Dominion Blvd deal are "On the Rocks" as well I guess...
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6
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MAYBE IF THE GOVERNOR
Submitted by Nikki M. on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 6:13 am.
Had gone to a real law school and taken a contracts class or two .....
I STILL SAY
Submitted by r.hodges on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 7:56 am.
I still say if the only toll was on the MTT, and they left the DTT toll-free, we wouldn't be in this mess
right now. Hampton Roads I don't think would have any problem with one free route and one tolled
route, so we could be like our brethren in Richmond and NOVA. Let us either sit in traffic forever at
the DTT, or pay a fee to go through less traffic at the MTT.
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WHAT GROUP IS FILING A LAWSUIT OVER CHESAPEAKE EXPRESSWAY?
Page 20 of 22
5/3/13 10:23 AM
Word on street has it some folks are getting ready to file a lawsuit over the Chesapeake
Expressway toll as well. Maybe the Pilot could dig a bit. That should be interesting while not a
"private" outfit...it is a local city with "unfettered" oversight from Richmond to set toll rates. It was
also built with private money(bonds).
1
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SIMPLE FACT
Submitted by phrase on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 8:54 am.
Here's the bottom line. This ruling will lose in the end and the tolls will win. There's way too much
politics and backroom dealing and big $ going on here. This group can enjoy the win today because
there is no doubt it will be struck down.
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QUESTION?
Submitted by i just wanted t... on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 9:40 am.
--interesting that the tunnel project investors put up only $230 million and will get 13.5% return on it
for 58 years?
--but our so called leaders could not?--or couldn't be bothered?--didn't want the so called smell of a
tax increase on their names?---maybe some kind of political contributions?--WHAT?
--we may need the tunnels?,---but I think bridges would be better,--but we don't need to be paying
13.5% profits to foreign investors for the next 58 years because of any reason.
--why does the tunnels need to be there?--why not a bridge somewhere else?--connecting to 64 in
the first place?--why down town Norfolk?--Is that still the hub of the universe?--where everyone
wants to go?--we are talking about a lot of money---to get to Norfolk?
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THE TOLLS
Submitted by margaretw94423 on Fri, 05/03/2013 at 9:52 am.
The state is not getting such a bad deal! They are only going to have to pay part of what the
residents/users were going to get charged. That was going to be a $2.1 billion tunnel that was going
to cost a lot more due to the tolls.
Many of the world's religious scriptures teach us that which is hateful to you should not be done to
others.
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MORE NEWS STORIES
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Weather: Partly sunny, windy, highs in the
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Page 21 of 22
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Page 22 of 22

Virginia could be on hook for $1B Midtown Tunnel debt

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