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Practical tips, artistic insights, and inside
stories from the pros behind the music
GE0nGr MfiRTlt'1, 8nlAilt ufiLs0il,
ARIT IVIANDIN, PHIL RAMt}I.IE & M(]RE
ylvia Massy Shivy has one of the most infectious laughs you'll ever hear. It's hard to
imagine this briglrt, cheery wonlan-one of only a handful of female eugineer/producers in the business-hanging out in the studio with the likes of angry thrashers
like Tool. But clearly a synergy exists, because their partnership resulted in one of the more
successful debut albtrms in recent mernory-1993's Undertow.
As far back as high school, Shivy knew that music was her calling. She sang and played
dnrms, keyboards, and guitar in local bands, performing everything from reggae to ska to punk
to metal, In college, she began making radio commercials-experience that she claims has served
her well by providing a theatrical view of music production. Assistantships at a nurnber of studios in both nortlrern and southern California followeci, and she soon made the transition to
engineer and then producer. Despite her early experiences working with mainstream artists
like Patti LaBelle, Barbra Streisand and Prince, Shivy gravitates towards the harder edge of things,
aligning herself with a variety of alternative rockers, including the aforementioned Tool and
bands like Powerman 5000, System Of A Down, Machines Of I-oving Grace, and Love And
Rockets. Recently returned to northern California, she's currently in the process of building
her own studio, where she plans to continue her work out on the bleeding edge of popular
music.
Why do you think there are so fewwomen in the music business?
You know that is a very interesting question. When I first got into the business, I thought,
well, maybe there's some kind of unfairness as far as men versus women in the business. But
the more time I've spent in it, the more I realize that that is not the case. It's that women biologically have other things to do, and by the time their career really gets going, it's time to
think about other things! (laughs).
That doesn't explain why there aren't more women in entry-level positions.
It's difficult when you really want to be an engineer or get into producing, and you find
out that it takes everything. It takes fifteen hour days, six, sometimes seven days a week, total
dedication, working for practically nothing to start. That's enough to discourage not only
women, but most entry-level people.
There are also some physical demands to the job when you're starting out. As a runner,
you're moving equipment, you're lifting things, you're pushing bass cabinets around. It has been
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difficult for sonte runners that I've seen at Larrabee and some other places-they can't take the
physical demands.
Still, this is such a male-dominated industry.
I suppose tltere are son're people that may feel uncomfortable working with a woman. I think
that the best way for a woman to present herself in the studio is to not be noticed as muchto dress more in the unifornr of a studio: jeans, really basic attire, not flashy, not dressed up.
Women love to dress up, and I think it's a distraction for clients. Though some clients love it;
some clients will only work with wonlen. I was lucky to get a job in L.A. at Larrabee, which has
always had a good hiring practice of starting women. But there are places that I've found to be
very difficult lor women to start in, and for no good reason. It is an issue. It's weird that there
are not that many women in the industry.
Even if you look at the recording schools, there's a disproportionate number of male students versus female students-€ven at the stage beforethefre even thinking about getting hired
somewhere.
Again, I have to go back to the realization that women have other things to do, and it ultimately doesn't fit in their plans. You can't have a social life when you're working in the studio. It's very difficult to nurture relationships when you're stuck in the studio all the time, or
you're traveling to England for three months at a time, or Norway, or South America, or wherever you wind up. Itis just not very good for cultivating strong relationships, and I think that's
important for a lot of women because of biology. That's all I can figure. It's just a natural draw
towards those kind of careers that don't demand 100 percent dedication.
furd yet the curious thing is that, more often than not, the studio manager is a woman.
That's true. But she can go home after B:00 p.rn. (laughs)
What experience do you feel had the greatest impact on your career?
Probably the one with the most impact was the work I did with Prince when I was assisting at l-arrabec. I le would have several rooms going at the same time, and he d always be short
an engineer and would just have the assistant do the project. So I got to engineer and mix for
him on several different projects.
He's one of just a handful of artists that have been able to successftrlly produce themselves.
Why do you think that is? What's the magic ingredient?
Well, the thing about Prince is that he has the final product already swimming in his head;
he knows what it's going to sotrnd like. I le coukl get it there hinrself-he coulcl engineer it, he
could produce it, he could perfornr every part himself faster than anyone else-but he prefers
to have other people put it together.
Are you saying that there's no real collaboration, that he doesn't seek input?
No, he's open to ideas, but when he walks in, he already has tl-re finished product in his
head, including every little detail. When I worked with him, this was how he worked: He would
play two bars of one riff on the guitar and two bars of another riff on a guitar, and he would
play a drum beat live on a drum machine with one hand and the bass line on another keyboard with the other hand. And then he would turn around and say, "OK, first riff in the verses, second riff in the choruses, there's your drum beat for the whole song, put it all together,
and I'll be back." And then hed leave, and who knows when hed be back, but you better get
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on it, 'cause it better be ready by the time he gets back.
Does he start tweaking from there, or is that the song?
He'll start adding to it. IJe'll lay another part down, and then he'll kickyou out, and he'll have
you wait for him while he records vocals. He never allowed me to be in the studio when he did
vocals. The vocal mic was set up over the console so that he cotrld do his own recording and comping for all vocal parts-I think he's very shy aborrt his vocals in the studio. In every other sense,
he certainly is an exhibitionist. \Alhen he's performing even those few little bars of guitar riffs,
he's spinning on his heels, he's dancing and putting on qtrite a show. He's an amazing musician.
How important was the vibe of the studio to Prince?
The mood was uery important with Prince. Larrabee went all out to make him comfortable.
The first time he booked the studio, I was assigned as the assistant, and I immediately ordered
the guitars and effects I thought he would want to use and had them rented and there in the
studio for him. But when he walked in the door, he looked around the room and he said, "Dont
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you have a big Grandma's chair or anyth,ing?" fuid I looked at him, and I just said, "yes, we do."
Of course the studio didn't have anything like that. (laughs) But I walked out, borrowed someone's truck, drove down to Melrose, bought an overstuffed chair, threw it in the back, came back
and brought it in, and he sat down on it. I-le wound up staying in that room for almost three
years, and by the time he was dotre, the place was decorated with curtains and candles, with
incense always going. In fact, they built a room for hirn upstairs called the Prince RoomAt tarrabee.
Did he take the chair with him when he left?
No. (laughs)
What's the oddest way that you've recorded a guitar and got a good workable track out
of it?
Well, anything is workable. (laughs) The funnest moment was throwing a guitar off a cliff
at Indigo Ranch while I was recording a band called Machines Of Loving Grace. There's this beautiful view of the ocean and a rr-rcky cliff at lndigo, and it's quite a ways away from the studio, so
"When I'm working with
bands, I try to get them
to loosen up and to not
be restrained by what
they
we had to get a very very, uerylong extension cord. I brought my
portable DAT recorder up to the cliffwhere we set up a Marshall
stack and had a sacrificial guitar that had been decorated for the
occasion. We drilled a hole through the guitar and tied a long
rope on it so that we could retrieve it and had a very long instrument cable going from the guitar into the Marshall stack.
And thcrr, at tllc precise lnornent of the nrost beautiful feeddoJ'
back-becatrse we generated a feedback frorn the setup on the
cliff-the guitar was tossed off atrd we recorded the sound of it crashing. lt was really trernendousl (laughs) Later we retrieved the guitar and the owner of the studio frarned the rernains.
He has it up on the wall of the studio now.
Whose idea was this-the band's or yours?
Mine. lVhen I'm working with bands, I try to get them to loosen up and to not be restrained
bywhat they do. So I try to think of the most insane sounds or insane things to do, for two reasons: One, to possibly get sorne exciting lecordings to use on the record, antl, secondly, to create a very menrorable nlornent that that band will never forget. I think I rnanage to do that on
almost every record.
It certainly sounds like you succeeded with that particular record.
Yeah.
what did it sound like?
It was squealing and banging and crashing, with echoes off the canyon. I don't know how
usable it was, but we wound up slipping it in or.r a segue somewhere.
So it did make it to the record.
Oh, yeah. Another odd thing I like to do is to take a cheap guitar with very microphonic
pickups attd set it on a guitar stand, either tapir.rg the strings quiet or tuning the guitar to an
open chord ir.r the key of the song that we're wor-kir.rg on. Then I set it in front of the drum kit
and use it as a resonator, effectively creating an arnbience track,
And one of the funnest things that l've ever done-but I'll never do again-happened during tlre recording of the'Ibol Underlow record. I bought a couple of junker pianos, and we set
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them up in a garage and put some acoustic guitar contact mics on the soundboard, along with
some 57s for close miking and some U B7s for room sound. Then we recorded the pianos first
being shot, then destroyed with sledgehammers.
Real music lovers, aren't we?
(laughs) You know I have to say that I'll never do that again, because after tearing apart
two pianos, I really saw how they are made and the delicate pieces that go together to make
these beautiful instruments. And the sounds that they made as they were being broken apart
gave me a very sad feeling, so ['ll never do it again. I have much more respect for pianos now.
Though obviously not as much respect for guitars.
No. (laughs)
Do these experiments really come from a search for new sounds, or is it just really a way
of engaging the artist and making it a fun experience for them?
I guess the first time it was to find the most outrageous, loudest sound. There were ideas
of getting a crane and dropping a thousand light bulbs from the crane and recording that, or
recording in a grain silo. Those were the fypes of ideas we were talking about, and when the
first discussions began, I found the band really getting excited. And that's what I wanted-this
excitement and getting their creative juices flowing. So I think it works in both ways.
But was the purpose of the sound to enhance the music, or was it really just meant as a
gimmick?
I hate to use the word "gimmick," but Tool is very angry, and it seemed to be a part of their
character. We didn't have an application for the sound until after it had been created; in the
end, we sequenced the noise into the last song on the Tool record. So I suppose you could call
it a gimmick, but it fits the character of the band; Tool is destructive.
I guess that the fact tltat I came out of radio production is a factor for me. My favorite albums are the ones that are not just a collection of songs but also have a sense of humor about
them and perhaps have nonsongs or little bits and pieces that can be used in radio production.
What are your favorite albums?
Let's see. X1'C, English Settlement, and Sg/. Pepper and, uh...this is a very hard question.
(laughs) My favorite recent record is Static X Wisconsin Death Trip. Flaming Lips's Transmissions
Of The Satellite Heart is also one of my favorite records, as well as Harry Nilsson's M/sson
Schmilsson.
in a very odd place in audio right now. At the same time that we're moving towards high resolution digital audio, we've also got MP3 going on, and low-fi seems to
We seem to be
be hip these days. How do you decide which direction to take a recording?
Well, approaching any project, the first thing beyond anything technical is, are there songs? A song will shine through no rA SOng Will Shine thfOUgh
matter what direction you take it-whether it's entirely recorded
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with machines or if there are human players. So I suppose the first
thing is to find out where the song is, what it,-ruuar, and how ro difeCtiOn yOU take it"'
develop it. And, depending on where that band or artist is in their
development, then the further along we'll go. If it's a brand new band with a lot of energy, it
may be rawer than someone on their third record, where wed concentrate on developing their
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it'll take really depends on the artist and the
song. I have to say that now it's easy to record with Pro Tools anyplace-not just in a commercial studio-so you clt-rn't have to sacrifice quality just because you're working with Pro Tools,
singles and polishing them up. So the direction
long as you use peripherals that enhance the quality of the sound as you're recording it. For
I'll always try to get some kind of Neve preamps and some good quality mics for vocals, so there are ways to work within these new guidelines.
What is it that makes something a finished record as opposed to a demo?
I think there is a difference in the recording of a demo and of a finished album. Demos seem
to have an energy that gets lost when the songs are rerecorded. Often on demos, the drum recording is trnfocusecl, and there's usually not a lot of time spent in layering other instruments and
vocal parts. If I listen to a track and notice things about it that are missing, then I would consider it a demo.
But there's a fine line between fleshing a song out sufficiently and not overdoing it. How
do you know when you've crossed that line?
Well, as soon as it gets real crowded, you've gone over the line. I think a production needs
negative space as much as it needs space to be filled up. As long as you have left a pocket here
and there, you're doing OK. Simplicity always seems to be better when you're talking about musical parts, so as soon as it feels claustrophobic, you might want to shed a few tracks and sim-
as
example,
plify it a bit.
And there's also the all-important issue of dlmamics.
Exactly-that's where the positive and negative space comes frorn.
That seems to be one of the hardest things for new artists to come to terms with. Howcan
you make a new artist understand that?
Yotr want a sol.lg to have tnovenlent and to have a payoff and l-ropefully a peak. If you're
trying to explain that to a ncw artist, you rnight take examples of songs that they like-even though
perhaps they don't know why they like it-and listen with them and discuss it. Ask them why
they like it; hopefully, the song will include an example of that type of dynamic movement.
Another tough thing for home recordists is dealing with low end-getting a tight, solid
bass without it becoming boomy and woofy. What kind of techniques have you come up with
for dealing with that?
You have to have proper monitoring. Otherwise, you don't know what's going on with your
low end; you're just flying blind. So I would recommend that in a home recording setup that
yclu have son.rething that translates low end real well. Even a pair of Genelecs will show you what's
going on, if you can afford to put something like that together.
Assuming that you are monitoring accurately, what knobs do you start reaching for?
There's a real scaryknob-the high pass filter. That allows you to trirn off the sub-frequencies
that are going to get you in trouble and that will help you tighten up the low end.
How do you identify what those frequencies are? For example, if you're trying to get a kick
drum and a bass to lock together, how do you go about doing that?
I try to separate the frequencies and make them independent from each other, and that
can be really very tricky, depending on what you're working on. I usually work on the kick
drum first, putting it into a complete picture with the rest of the drum kit. Once that spectrum
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is worked out, then the bass comes in next. Or sometimes
I'll add guitars before the
bass, because the lower gtritar frequencies can make the bass confused. So one way to clear the bass
tup is to use that high pass filter to clear up the low end on the guitar; it allows you room for
the bass. I srtpllose the lowest lieqr.rency is ttre kick clrrrm and then the bass sits right above that,
and the grritars are on top of that.
So you'll roll off low frequencies in the bass so that they don't conflict with the higher end
of the kick rlrrrm?
That's riglrt.
What sort of frequency areas are you talking about?
60-100 IJz on the low part of the kick drum. And above that with the bass, depending on
what key tlte sung is iu.
Do you use a lot of compression?
Most of the time I don't record with compression on the drums, I will often add compression in the mix to the kick and sometinres to the snare. If it's a real mechanical sound, I'll
use a lot of cotnpression-anrl very pokey sounding compression. More organic sounds will
get a looser tyre of dnrm compression and more room. Bass, I usually do record with compression.
Do yorr record both DI and bass amp signals?
Ycah, and clepending on where the bass needs to sit in the mix, I'll reverse the phase on
one of the two llass tracks until it pokes out tl.re best. Also, when recording drums, it's very in'rportant to check phase between every single mic, because there'll be some conflicting phase,
and you will lose instruments and have a very difficult time later trying to hear things.
What's your favorite bass amp mic?
Sennheiser 421. lrrst give nre a dozen 421s and I'nr happy! (laughs)
Wlrat are your favorite drum mics?
I use a lSertnheiser MDI 421 for kick and toms, a lShure SMI 57 for top and bottom snare,
IAKGI 4l4s or 45ls for high hats and individual cymbals. For overheads, a pair of lNeumann
Ul 87s or a C24. Sometimes I use a Neumann CMV 563 with the M7 capsule for a room mic;
that's kind of an unusual mic.
I don't get too complicated with drum mics, although the last project I worked on as an
engineer was tlifTictrlt, becatrse the clnrmnrer played the cymbals so loud-he was constantly
riding thc hat open and crashing tlre cymbals. I had a difficult time getting the cymbals out of
the toms, so I used a Shure SMSB clip-on for the top of the toms, and that worked great. They're
just little tiny things that clip on the top heads of the toms, and there's a lot of low end and very
little cymbal bleed.
Do you process the rooms mics in any way?
I'll usually split thern into different conpressors that I carry around with me. I've got this
old crustyWestern Electric compressor that is maxed out, and that will go on a track. Then I've
got a UAl75 compressor that is slightly milder and sweeter. So I'll split the signal and have two
separate mono rooms just to use as effects later.
What sort of things might you do with the room mics later?
One fun thing to do in Pro Tools is to use a gating program set to very hard gating, triggered off the kick and snare. That gives the room mics a real mechanical rhythm sound.
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Is your usual electric guitar miking setup a 57 against the grille?
A 57 ancl a 421 against the grille, on two separate speakers. Again, you have to be very care-
ful with phase; just check it until the signal is the strongest.
Do you ever use ambient guitar mics?
No, not unless it's for a solo. For a lot of my projects, room mics kind of cloud up my picture a little bit. I like it really in your face.
What's your setup for recording acoustic guitar?
I like recording them mono, and that could be with a 414 or even a 57 for a very dry woody
sottntl, dellendir.rg on the guitar. The 57 makes the guitar sound very percussive-it's a lot less
rnusical and more percussive.
What about for recording piano? And don't tell me chainsaw!
(f aughs) Oh, yotr nrean without the chainsaw? That would be a pair of U B7s, or a C24 is
nice, too. I'll put one far down into the low strings and one up on the high strings, just behind
the hanrmers.
What are your favorite vocal mics?
It depencls on the performance and the performer. A lot of times, to get the best performance itr real lrard music, l'll rrse a live rnic like an SM5B. In fact, for certain voices, it can't be
beat. I'm very impressed with an SM58-isn't that silly? (laughs) I mean, I own aTelefunken U47.
When I was working with the Smashing Pumpkins we set that up, plus we rented a Telefunken
251 and atrother, oh, $20,000 of rental tube mics, and also set up an SM58 and SM57, an 87,
and sonre very inexpensive mics, and did the blindfold test. We listenecl to each individual mic
and rccordccl a little bit of it usir.rg the sanre compressor, which was a UAl75, and ultimately
the U47 and the 58 won. And, because we could get better performance with the S8-because
it can be knocked arouncl a little bit-we went for the 58 and sent back all the ttrbe mics.
tsut fbr itttittrate vocal perfornlances, I like to use the U47 tube with a great deal of compression-usually two compressors gangecl up, an I-A2A with an I l76 rlr an RCA BAGA conrpressor with the UAI75.
And you'll record it with double compression?
Oh, yeah, because if the perfonner hears his voice compressed in the headphones, he'll
perform differently than if he was not hearir.rg that contpression.
So why not iust do it in his headphones?
I suppose you could. But if a magical moment happens in his headphones, then dammit,
we better get it on the tape just the way that it happened. I don't like to try to reproduce something after the fact.
That was the way it was with the Johnny Cash project that I engineeredlUnchainedl.There
just
was
a star-studded group of people on tl-rat record: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Flea,
Carl Perkins, Mick Fleetwood, I-indsay tluckingham, and Johnny Cash. And before they even
sat down, tape ltad better be rolling-because they're going to play, and it's going to be right
the first time. So I learned big lessons with that; the tape was always rolling.
Let's talk a little more about mixing. You mentioned that you start with the kick drum,
followed by the rest of the drums, and then you bring in the bass and the guitars. Where do
you go from there?
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Sometimes, after I get a good balance, I'll start again with just the drums, and I'll put the
vocals in and then reintroduce the balance of guitars and bass to see where the vocal fits. It depends on the song. If it's an intimate song, that vocal will be very loud. If it's a very guitar-heavy
sot.rg, the vocals nray be right underneath the level of the guitars. The final thing is the spicethe effects; any kind of special effects will come in last.
Do you typically have two or three stock effects that multiple tracks get fed into, or do
you assign discrete effects for each instrument?
I like using discrete effects. I'll usually set up a vocal plate, I like using a CooperTimecube
to thicken up drums, and a small room program on a [Lexicon] 480L for drums. Drums will have
one set of effects; vocals have another set of effects.
One very common mixing problem is getting a lead vocal to sit right on top of a dense
track. Any tips that you can pass on for accomplishing that?
Sure. Compress it. The more compression-without getting too spitty
better you're
-the
going to hear it. And you might want to start with the overload of compression-see how it fits,
and then back it off until it fits right. Also, along with compression, if your vocal is sonically in
the same space as the guitars, you're going to have to make an adjustment, either bringing out
more of a midrange or a honk out of the vocal, or likewise adjusting the guitars to make room
for that vocal.'l'hat helps, but compression always seems to make things pop out.
When you say "more compression," are you talking about higher ratios or lower thresholds?
Iloth, but more lower thresholds than higher ratios.
What advice do you have for the reader who wants to be the next Sylvia Massy Shivy?
lf you love music, stick with it. Don't be afraid when you're broke and you think the world's
against youl (latrghs) Use that energy, get pissed and keep going. Work with as many up-andconting bands as you can-be out there looking for talent, and find a way to record them,
whether it means buying your own home recording setup or getting a job in a commercial studio and sweeping floors. Iust stickwith it, and the longeryou're there, the more likelyyou'll have
success.
Selected Listening:
fohnny Cash; Unchained, American, 1996
Tool: Undertotu,Zoo, 1993; Opiate,Zoo, 1992
Machines Of Loving Grace: Gil/, Mammoth, l9g5
Love And Rockets: Sweet EA., American, 1996
Powerman SOOOz Tonight The Stars Reuolt, Dreamworks, lgg8
System Of A Down: System Of A Down, American/Sony, l99B
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